Struggling with breastfeeding at 8 weeks

[clobug1]

dd2 is 8 weeks tomorrow and I have been breastfeeding and topping up with formula. All of a sudden over the last 2 or so days she has started rejecting the breast, first rejecting the second side after feeding quite happily on the first side, and now altogether. She has been feeding quite happily up until now.

I am also expressing but only get about 30ml at a time.

I am starting to feel like she is rejecting me and unfortunately getting quite upset. Any suggestions?

[somethingunderthebedisdrooling]

decide if you want to breast feed or formula feed. if you continue to top up with formula, bf may come to an end soon. if you don't, then lots of skin to skin with your dd and feed as often as possible. depending on how long and how much you have been giving top ups, it may be affecting your supply.

to get a better picture of how to proceed, it would be better to explain one to one with a bf counsellor on to how to reduce the amount of formula you are giving and slowly build your supply or maybe if it isn't too much, then stop cold turkey.


the only way to build your supply is to give your baby a chance to feed at every opportunity - not necessarily to drink but to stimulate milk production.

at around this time, your body is settling down to a supply - demand schedule so you won't be able to express as much as you used to. it is only by feeding a lot that you will build your supply effectively.

[dizzybint]

why did you start topping up with formula?

[clobug1]

dd2 was beginning to dehydrate in hospital and then later suggested by both midwife and feeding specialist as I was struggling so much. thought i'd got it cracked with the half and half method but all seems to have gone wrong over the last few days.

[clobug1]

sorry, didn't make it clear, she actually won't even go near the breast sometimes, so it isn't a supply issue at that point, she just screams as soon as I put her on the breast, but is quite happy with a bottle. she does seem to be very sicky and has an awful lot of wind so it's almost like she knows that the quick flow of the bottle will soothe her. do they learn that kind of thing this early on?

[dizzybint]

the thing is, your body doesn't know your baby is getting the formula. your body thinks your baby only has what she gets from you. so your body thinks your baby isn't very hungry, so it cuts back on how much it makes. to get things back to normal you need to just feed feed feed. your body will catch up. so cancel everything, stay in with baby and just feed. then your body thinks oooh hungry baby here, must make more milk.

[clobug1]

will my body not respond to the additional pumping I'm doing, presumably that will have the same effect as feeding her?!

PS Just managed to express 60ml after her refusing breast at last feed. (reason for slow typing)

[dizzybint]

your baby is better at getting milk from you than the pump. some people can't get anything with a pump at all but breastfeed with no problems.

[clobug1]

trouble is if she just gets upset every time i put her to the breast I can't increase my supply by feeding her.

[dizzybint]

have you tried different positions? rugby ball hold or laid down for example? some people find feeding in a warm bath helps get things back on track too, as the baby is more relaxed. your baby may be sensing how tense you are when you hold her for feeding. where do you usually feed? could you try in bed? or a different chair maybe?

[dizzybint]

if i'm having a bad day with dd (4 months) we just stay in my bedroom, play on the bed and feeding and sleeping. sometimes she's just too distracted anywhere else to have a good enough feed. it helps if the room is quite dim.

[determination]

Sounds to me almost like Breast Aversion. I experienced this with nipple confusion when dd was around 12 weeks. This will be extremely difficult and hard work but you can and will succeed. This is what i did....

What you will need to do (to continue BFing) is completely ditch the bottles. Supplement feeds by another form - syringe feeding OR use Medela Softcup so you can cup feed easily without the fear of spilling any Expressed Milk. Continue to express on a regular basis (at least 8 times per day), and eat a well balanced diet - i would include porridge in the morning EVERY morning as the Oats will help naturally build supply.

Now, you need to get your dd to associate the breast with "Happiness". I done this by blowing raspberries on dds tummy until she giggled then quickly and gently touched her face with my bare breast. She was then associating the giggling/happy feeling with my breast. The took over 1 week then she started showing rooting signs again. Within 2 weeks we were completely back to breast and both enjoying it again.. however, it took approx 1 month for my confidence in feeding to build up as i kept thinking she would reject me again. We successfully BFed until she was 24.5 months - when she self weaned as i am pregnant again.

Please keep us updated on your progress.. You will get through this...

[disemboweledbint]

determination- those are some good suggestions. my understanding is though, that diet doesn't affect supply. obvioulsy a good diet will make mum feel better, which is of course a goo dthing, but doesn't actually help with her milk supply.

[somethingunderthebedisdrooling]

how are you clobug? from your other posts, it sounds like your confidence if bf has taken a huge knock by the mw telling you to topup with formula and giving no other help.

i would try to speak one to one with a bf counsellor either on the phone or face to face.

La Leche League ? 0845 120 2918
National Childbirth Trust - 0870 444 8708 (8am ? 10 pm)
Association of Breastfeeding Mothers ? 0870 401 7711 (9.30am -10.30pm)
Breastfeeding Network - 0870 900 8787 (9.30am -9.30pm)


here is the link to the nct and baby cafe . put in your post code to find out more details for closer to you. i can only imagine how daunting all this is with looking after 2 and being a new mum. {{{hugs}}}

[clobug1]

Thanks for help, I will definitely try the idea of making her smile and then showing breast, sounds sensible!

Managed to feed her overnight so obviously she is calmer then and more ready to take breast. Also managed to go 2.5hrs after breast only which is a bonus for us.

Spoke to bf counsellor last night and got some useful advice, again introduce the breast when she is calm rather than starving and make sure I keep up supply by resting etc and pumping if necessary (not as good as feeding but better than not doing anything).

Will hopefully cut down bottles gradually as been giving too much top up to stop suddenly. Am a little concerned that the counsellor thinks she will want to feed up to twice an hour if totally switch to breast. Do you guys really spend all day every day feeding, and if so how on earth do you get anything else done, particularly dealing with school run/another child?

[mears]

If you have been giving regular large top-ups then you will not be producing enough breastmilk to meet her needs alone. If you ditch the formula completely you will need to feed very frequently for her to get enough milk and for your breasts to be stimulated to make more.
If you cut the amount of formula you give gradually, breastfeed more and express inbetween when baby not interested, you will increase your supply to match baby's needs.

Once your supply is establishes you will have decent space between feeds.

How much top-up do you give?

[mears]

By the way - are you doing skin-to-skin contact? Babies tend to want to breastfeed more when they have the opportuniy of just lying next to the breast

[Lio]

Don't know the answer (my probs have been different), but from what I've read on previous similar threads it is NOT impossible! As well as the brilliant advice from MN-ers, please call your health visitor on Monday and get her to tell you who your breastfeeding counsellor is, whether she will come to your house and if not where and when all the drop-in sessions are. These are great groups to attend, even when you DO manage to crack this, as everyone who has struggled with B/F deserves that continuing encouragement. Best of luck, I look forward to hearing about your success.

[disemboweledbint]

don't worry that you'll be feeding all day long. it will take time and a lot of feeding to get things sorted, but after a few days you'll be back to a decent gap between feeds. it'll be like a growth spurt then back to normal.

[determination]

clobug,

How has today been? can you see any more improvements? Keep working at the "Happy Breast" technique and you will get there.. Your doing a great job

[milward]

clobug - can you bf and move about? Once I started this it possible to be bfing and looking after other kids. I just bf in the cradle position and got on with things.

For going to school I bf in the morning whilst kids watch tv and get their shoes on & then when I get back home. For the afternoon I bf before going to pick up the others. When ds was small I would bf even if he was asleep to be sure he'd fed before going out. I also co-slept which meant the ds had been bf before I got up so I could just get ready to go out.

best wishes xxx

[clobug1]

Some good, some bad, had a 4hr stretch without any top up yesterday from about 5.30am but wouldn't feed properly in the night last night. It now seems to be hit and miss, sometimes she will feed, sometimes not. Whenever she won't bf I am expressing and also in between but I still don't get a huge amount so I could only give her 1 full feed from the expressed milk each day or a couple of top ups.

Anyone who finds this easy must be either incredibly lucky or lying!

It is becoming very upsetting for both of us so I am going to continue for another couple of days and see if we get back to some kind of normality. After that I'm not sure I can carry on any longer!

[Lio]

Hi clobug, whereabouts are you? We need to get you in touch with someone who can help you.

[Lio]

bump for you clobug

[Lio]

Last call for clobug... (have tried to CAT)