Is this right? (something a HV said)

[smurfgirl]

I am a student nurse and spent today with a HV and something she said didn't ring true to me so I wanted to ask the experts

A mum was feeding her baby (6 weeks old) sma gold and the hv weighed him today and he had put on a lot of weight since he was born - 7lb at birth and 13lb today. He was quite a chubby baby but not like ginormously massive! Anyway, the mum asked if she could put him on SMA white (hungry baby milk?) because he was taking 9oz every 3 hours. And the HV said that she would not normally say yes but because the baby was so big they had to slow up his weight gain or else he would become fat by 6 months and so he had to go onto the hungry baby milk. The HV said that it would fill him for longer so he would not eat as much so his calorie intake would come down. That struck me as odd, I didn't think you had to limit a 6 week old's calorie intake?

When we left the house she turned to me and said 'what a fat baby' and said how round his face was. I was a bit surprised at all this because I didn't think babies could be fat some are chubby some are not.

She also was telling the mum to give the baby water and not juice and the mum was agreeing and saying that she only gave water. And then the HV said that if she HAD to give juice it should be sugar free cordial v.diluted, thats not right either is it?

TIA for any advice, I am genuinely interested not looking for an argument!

[emkana]

at the suggestion of giving sugar free cordial to a six week old baby!!!!!!!!!
I would never do that, only water.

My baby is five weeks old and exclusively breastfed, and he looks very well-fed indeed. I don't agree with calling a small baby fat. I'm not sure about weight gain when bottle-feeding, but my understanding was that first-type formula, ie not the type for "hungrier" babies, could be fed on demand. But maybe somebody will come along and correct me there!

[emkana]

It is an enormous weight gain though - one pound for every week of his life...
where was he on the percentiles at birth/now?

[CarlyP]

my ds2 was 14lb by 6wks, and he is not fat!!! agree with the hungrier baby milk, but not to lower calories, just to lessen feed times etc.

as for juice, i only gave it when constipated.........other times it was water.

[hunkermunker]

Does she know what's in sugar-free squash? Bit of water, maybe, especially in this heat, but SQUASH for a 6wo? No.

Sounds like you've been placed with a mentalist, SG

[smurfgirl]

emakana the baby was born to a smoker which reduced his birth weight so its difficult to know what his birth weight should have been kwim, maybe he is just a big baby, the hv said the weight gain was 'catching up'

The mum was quite adament that she was not going to give the baby juice but now the hv has put it in her mind I think she prob will do it.

[smurfgirl]

HM I thought of you when she did the weaning talk and told the mum to wean at 4mths I asked her afterwards about waiting until the official 6mths (she had given me leaflets to read) and she said that that was unrealistic.

[hunkermunker]

Unrealistic?!

Would you like to show her the photo of DS2 in member profiles? He was six months old last week and has had two mouthfuls of banana and a gnaw of a rice cake since then.

[hunkermunker]

There you go

[emkana]

Unrealistic? Ey?
The thing is HV's tell people four months and people often start at 12 weeks or something then.
If HV's said six months there might be some hope that people wouldn't start before four or five months, which would be some improvement.

[quootiepie]

What id guess is that babies arent designed to have formula milk - unlike breast milk where they can have as much as they like, formulas have to be limited as the content is different. In this way I guess you have to limit calorie and fat intake... its not "natural" so they way of feeding it wont be natural either. You can feed a baby too much formula, so to reuce feeds to stop excessive weight gain but still maintain the right amount of calorie and vitamin intake etc. with a different type of milk seems about right. Im no expert though - just going kinda by what ive heard HV say

[quootiepie]

p.s about the water/juice thing... as far as i know in the hot weather formula babies need a drink of water as they dont get the watery milk first like breastfed babies... and juice isnt good for babies, even sugar free.

[quootiepie]

get the juice thing now - maybe HV thought the mum might give juice s made the point in the hope that instead of the mum giving juice, she'd choose sugar free... alot of people would just ignore a simple "dont give juice", so sugar free would be better than non sugar free. HV might be used to people giving babies juice so thought shed better let it be known that IF the mum does go against advice and give juice, at least she now knows sugar free would be better. Lesser of two evils so to speak.

[hunkermunker]

Sugar free ISN'T better though. It's shit. It's full of artificial sweeteners. Would rather give a baby sugary stuff (not that I'd give either).

[tiktok]

Hmmmm....I know a lot less about this than about breastfeeding, but that's because formula feeding is an 'uncontrolled experiment' (quote from author Maureen Minchin) and there is not a lot of research. I would certainly raise my eyebrows at a 6 wk baby who's gained a pound a week since birth. I would actually have gently found out what else was going on - was someone slipping him rusks, was he already on hungrier milk?

If all is well, then I don't think there's anything awful about giving the baby SMA White and could be ok, given he isn't being breastfed (why not? Did she ask? Did you ask? I know it's not always possible to do so). Hungrier milks are developed for this sort of situation - to space out the formula feeds. I don't think it will make one jot of difference to this baby's overall health, to be honest, and it really won't matter if his calorie intake comes down a bit.

Water obviously best for the baby if he has other fluids. Strikes me she was right to explain precisely what juice he should have if he has it, though....but the best sort would be highly diluted fresh or specially-formulated for babies (sugar free, but not artificial sweeteners, of course). Someone is going to offer that baby juice, at some point. She surely didn't mean sugar free squash, did she???


HV should of course been consistent about solids at 6 mths. It's just cowardly to duck out of it.

hm's ds is utterly scrumptious, is he not?

[Greensleeves]

When ds1 was about 6 weeks old we were attending a "routine" appt with the consultant paediatrician (ds1 was premature and had a very bad start, was in SCBU etc, hence extra medical surveillance). We were asked to fill in a chart detailing how often he fed and for how long.

He was nicely chubby, very Mabel Lucie Atwell-looking - but not fat or unhealthy at all. The paediatrician accused me of lying about how much he was feeding and said that if he carried on feeding at the level I was "claiming" he was feeding, he would need his stomach stapled. Asshole. I ignored all the appts he sent us after that.

With ds2 he was diagnosed "failure to thrive", I was accused of starving him, threatened with SS by a locum and a HV, summoned to see another paeditrician, whereupon we were grilled and humiliated, ds2 subjected to a battery of traumatic tests, I was ordered to stop breastfeeding immediately and give him formula (my GP said I wasn't "good dairy stock" and I made inferior milk). Eventually it turned out that he was suffering from an acute respiratory virus which he had contracted neonatally in their filthy hospital. I had been telling them since his birth that there was something wrong with his breathing, that he projectile vomited constantly and that he had a persistent cough.

My advice to mums with babies over a month old is always: Bin the red book, don't let midwives/HVs anywhere near your baby, and steer clear of medics unless it's a genuine medical complaint, in which case go to GP/A&E.

[ilovecaboose]

My ds put on a pound a week nearly every week for the first couple of months - he was bf. By 3 months he was beginning to look a bit round, but that was it. My midwife just told me he was doing well and I was obviously producing fantastic milk! I didn't put him onto solids until about 7 months either.

[VeniVidiVickiQV]

Greensleeves, that is rather reckless advice I think in your last paragraph tbh. Not all HVs/GPs are bad.

I dont know much about formula feeds and "limiting" them etc. I know I b/fed both mine and DD gained a pound a week - the HV didnt believe that I was totally b/feeding.

[tiktok]

A breastfed baby putting on a pound a week is a different kettle of fish.

You can be certain this weight gain is physiological (in the absence of anything else showing up as unusual). Breastfed babies drive the supply themselves and have some control over their intake.

This is less the case with a formula fed baby.

[Greensleeves]

Yes, I suppose it was a bit hasty VVV. I think I've just been unlucky in the medical personnel I've encountered - I've never seen so much negligence, rudeness, deviousness and incompetence and it's one very large factor against my having any more children.

I know they're not "all the same" though, of course, it was a crap generalisation. Apologies for offence to anyone who feels offended by my post.

Pesronally, I would still advise any friend of mine to bin the red book and only deal with doctors/HVs on their own terms though. They are NOT authority figures.

[VeniVidiVickiQV]

I figured that was the case tiktok.

I've seen a few choice "professionals" in my time GS, tis true. I just think we have to be careful on here what we are seen to "advocate" to parents who probably dont know "us", first time visitors etc, and are looking for sound advice.

[smurfgirl]

I wasn't shocked so much by her suggesting the milk, more the way she talked about the baby being fat kwim? Seemed quite negative about him. She did check that mum was trying to comfort him first. Mum chose not to breastfeed I believe (v.low breastfeeding rates in the area I am on placement).

And she did mean low sugar squash. Told a few mums to use it, said specifically not to buy baby juice.

[jofeb04]

Hiya Smurfgirl,
My dd was bottlefed, putting on alot of wieght etc, drinking milk all the time.
We put her on the "hungry" baby, and her feeds were alot more spaced out. She still had the same wieght gain, so didnt really effect that.
HTH

[CorrieDale]

at low sugar squash. This is the kind of advice mothers are getting?????? Holy shit. Do HVs not read labels? Or does that come into the 'I've been doing this job for years. I don't need need to listen to the WHO/read any research/check labels for crap' category?

[wrinklytum]

Sounds quite strange-sugar free squash at 6 weeks!!!Think you have a very strange health visitor colleague!!In defence of health visitors mine has been very down to earth and helpful....and (whispers) hes a man !!!!!

[moondog]

Another fucking nutter on the loose.
What next?
WKD???