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Infant feeding

If breast is best, why am I now being told ds should have vitamin supplements?

24 replies

bramblina · 12/07/2006 22:48

I don't get it. Ds was exclusively bf for 5 months, has a fantastic diet now and apparently should be taking vitamins. If he were on formula though, that would be ok...WTF?! I am not going to give him formula. How much better can a diet get? What did the babies do hundreds of years ago before vitamin supplements were invented?

Someone suggested I give him baby porridge and baby rice as it's fortified- but the whole idea of growing up is to advance to eating proper food and grow out of the baby stage.

Tiktok are you there?

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hunkermunker · 12/07/2006 22:50

No need IMO and IME.

Who's telling you this?

Are they worried about iron or something else?

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expatinscotland · 12/07/2006 22:51

I think someone is jumping the gun on this b/c they are concerned that at or around 6 months, the iron stores he was born with deplete.

But even then a formula fed baby doesn't need a supplement, just the introduction of some iron-rich foods into his diet when he starts to wean.

We did baby led weaning w/both and they were each 24 weeks before they even ate baby rice.

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bramblina · 12/07/2006 22:52

HV. She's not forceful, just really likes me to know that that's what we should be doing.
Not sure what exactly she's worried about, I told her he has liver once a weeka nd eats a very good diet. Don't understand. So were yours bf and you didn't give vits?

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hairymclary · 12/07/2006 22:53

who has suggested that he needs vitamins?

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MrsSpoon · 12/07/2006 22:54

My HV recommended this too and I decided to ignore. It's up to you but IMO it is unnecessary.

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bramblina · 12/07/2006 22:54

Expat formula is dorified and that's why it's ok, apparently. But artificially fortified IMO and I'd rather I got his goodness naturally, from food.
Is it just because food isn't quite what it should be? Or perhaps with the huge introduction of jars and packets these days, they think the babies need extra vits???

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tiktok · 12/07/2006 22:55

Bramblina, this has been discussed a few times on MN - you'll find a lot in the archives. In the US, Norway and elsewhere, bf babies do get given supplements, from a young age - not because there is anything wrong with breastmilk, but because it's thought some mothers and babies don't get outside often enough to make vitamin D. Formula has the supplements added in - read the packs. It's not magically better!

Babies hundreds of years ago certainly went outside more than they do today!

There is some research to show that some bf babies over 6 months may be at risk of vitamin D shortage, but it's because of this lifestyle deficit, that's all.

As long as your baby is outside for a short time on most days of the week, he will make enough vitamin D and there is no need for supplements.

Hope that explains it.

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WigWamBam · 12/07/2006 22:56

The iron levels start to deplete from around 6 months ... takes a little while for it to happen though, by which time he will be eating a good wide range of food and getting all his vitamins from that.

I didn't bother with vitamin drops, my HV nearly dropped dead on the spot when I told her no thanks. Dd seems to have suffered no ill-effects from it at all - and she's 5 now.

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tiktok · 12/07/2006 22:56

Iron is something else, wigwam - not a vitamin.

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bramblina · 12/07/2006 23:02

Thanks tiktok. Am frightened of you but you do know your stuff

Can't ever work the archive search.
I know formula is not magically better, as I said my opinion is that it's artificially fortified and therefore I'd like to avoid it, and get the goodness from food, like we're supposed to.
The example the hv used was the vit d one, which I was aware of, so if that's my biggest concern re this then I'm happy we're ok. How much time do you mean? (OK you can be rude here, I think that could be a bit of a stupid question but just want to make sure I'm getting this right here...) We usually have a half hour walk every day and sit outside whenever we can (tbh not too often as we're NW Scottish coast!)
Thanks again.

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MrsJohnCusack · 12/07/2006 23:40

ah my otherwise fairly sensible HV went on and one about this

I just smiled sweetly and said I was doing it if she asked, whilst completely ignoring her. it is a load of crapola, as wiser people than I have said on here

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hunkermunker · 12/07/2006 23:41

Sounds fine to me, Bramblina.

(EIS, baby-led weaning doesn't include use of baby rice - it's about letting the baby self-feed, not just show you they're ready for puree)

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hairymclary · 12/07/2006 23:42

bramblina I read that as little as 5 minutes outside is plenty. I would imagine your little one gets plenty more than that, even in scotland

I will google it though and check

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hairymclary · 12/07/2006 23:43

not strictly true hunkermunker, you could offer the baby baby rice and they could eat with fingers. probably not wise, but certainly possible

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hunkermunker · 12/07/2006 23:43

Sorry, yes, revisited the thread to say just that, HM!

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hairymclary · 12/07/2006 23:44

Vitamin D
The sun also provides us with our main source of vitamin D.

Scientists have long been aware that this nutrient strengthens our bones and muscles and boosts the immune system.


Salmon fillets
Salmon is also a source of vitamin D

UVB converts ergosterol in the skin (a naturally occurring higher alcohol belonging to the steroid family) into vitamin D.

Ten minutes of daily exposure to sunlight will supply us with all the vitamin D that we need. The principal function of this vitamin is to promote calcium absorption in the gut and calcium transfer across cell membranes. This contributes to strong bones and a contented nervous system.

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tiktok · 13/07/2006 00:00

Honestly, I don't know how much is enough! I can't believe there is a worldwide standard - it will depend on where you live because of the different strength of the sun. In Norway, everyone, newborn to centenarian, gets cod liver oil every day (and of course everyone breastfeeds, too) in recognition of the fact that for much of the year, sunlight is very weak (and non-existent for months of the year in the far north. Vit D can be stored in the body to some extent, I gather).

I know you will know formula is not magically better But I am sure some HVs don't know.

Babies on solids can get vit D from diet as well.

Going outside most days and doing it for longer when it is sunny is prob just fine.

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BornBerry · 13/07/2006 07:44

Hiya
Also worthh taking into account is too much vitamin D is as harmful as too little. The body stores vitamin D really well therefore sun exposure does not need to be measured daily. How much sun is required as has been said depends on your location and type of skin (and is more of a problem when skin types drastically move location such as a very dark skinned person requiring more sunlight moving to Norway.)
www.kellymom.com/nutrition/vitamins/vitamin-d.html may help.

INFACT Canada Newsletter - ?Vitamin? D ? The Sunshine VitaminSome important Questions and Answers about infant nutrition and vitamin DQ. What is ?vitamin? D?
?Vitamin? D is actually not a vitamin at all, but a steroid hormone that was misclassified as a vitamin back in 1922 when small amounts were found to be naturally present in a few foods such as butter, the oils and livers of fatty fish and egg yolks. The hormone is known for its role in the calcification of bone tissue, but is also involved in the differentiation of cells for specific functions and acts as a powerful controller for the immune system; as well it helps to regulate insulin secretion and blood pressure. A deficiency in infancy can lead to a rare condition known as rickets or softening of the bones. Vitamin D is oil soluble and therefore is stored by the body for times of low exposure to sunlight.

Q. How do we get vitamin D?
Our main source of vitamin D is sunshine. Vitamin D is produced in the skin when it is exposed to the sun?s ultraviolet light (UVB radiation) and then converted in the liver and in the kidneys to the biologically active forms 25-hydroxy vitamin D and 1,25 hydroxy vitamin D. When exposed, the large surface area of our skin has the capacity to produce sufficient amounts of vitamin D in a short time well before sunburn can occur.
Additionally dietary vitamin D is sourced through breastmilk, fortified cow?s milk or other dairy products, liver and fatty fish.

Q. Is a deficiency in vitamin D common?
No. A deficiency in vitamin D is rare. We are hearing more concerns about vitamin D as people with darker skin and more melanin pigment to screen out UV rays from the sun immigrate to Canada from tropical countries.
A study published by the Hospital for Sick Children in Toronto reported2 only 17 cases during a six-year review from 1988 to 1993. The Canadian Paediatric Society, in a Press Release3 dated June 17, 2004 noted ?several cases? over a two-year surveillance. Their unpublished data reporting of a cross-Canada survey of 2300 paediatricians
note 69 cases over two years. In the US the Children?s
Hospital in New Jersey reported4 only nine cases over a three-year period.

Q. Who is at risk for developing vitamin D deficiency?
Risk factors for both mothers and babies for developing vitamin D deficiency and rickets include:
â–  indoor confinement during daytime,
â–  being covered with clothing while outdoors,
â–  living at high latitudes with seasonal variation of UV radiation,
â–  living in urban centres where high rises and pollution can block sunlight,
â–  darker skin pigmentation,
â–  use of sun screens.

Those screened to be at risk may benefit from prophylactic
vitamin D supplementation.

Exclusive breastfeeding is not a risk for deficiency; inadequate exposure to sunlight is the risk factor.

Q. How do infants get vitamin D?
The normal means for infants to receive vitamin D is through stores they receive prenatally; through skin exposure to sunlight and a small amount is also acquired from breastmilk. The amount in breastmilk can vary depending on maternal status. The amount in breastmilk should not be considered deficient as humans receive vitamin D through skin exposure to sunlight.

Q. How much vitamin D do infants need?
The amount usually recommended for infants less than one year of age is 200 to 400 IU per day.
Exclusive breastfeeding and skin exposure to the UVB radiation from sunlight is the normal way to get sufficient
vitamin D. The duration of skin exposure needed varies with skin pigmentation, time of day, season and latitude. The average recommendation5 of skin exposure for an infant is 30 minutes per week (wearing a diaper only) or a total of two hours per week fully clothed and without a hat.

Q. Is the recommended exposure to sunlight safe?
Yes. The short time exposure several times a week is a safe way to practise sun exposure and avoid burns. In addition to the benefits of vitamin D, scientists6 also suggest
that the safe use of sunlight is important for positive mental enjoyment and relaxation and possibly chronic disease reduction.

References

  1. La Leche League International. Press Release. Sunlight Deficiency, ?Vitamin
    D,? and Breastfeeding. Schaumburg IL April, 2003
  2. Biet, A. et al. Persistence of vitamin D-deficiency rickets in Toronto in the 1990s. Canadian Journal of Public Health 87: 227-230, 1996
  3. Canadian Paediatric Society Press Release, Canadian Paediatric Society confirms rickets still a major health issue. June 17, 2004
  4. Sills, I. et al. Vitamin D deficiency rickets. Clinical Pediatrics. 8: 491-493, 1994
  5. Specker, B. Do North American women need supplemental vitamin D during pregnancy or lactation? Am J Clin Nutr 59: 4845-4915, 1994
  6. Ness, A. R. et al. Are we really dying for a tan? BMJ 319: 114-116, 1999

    More interesting reading can be found at:
    www.infactcanada.ca/Action_Alert_Vitamin_D.htm www.lalecheleague.org/llleaderweb/LV/LVAugSep03p75.html www.infactcanada.ca/breastmilk_and_vitamin_d_adequac.htm
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tiktok · 13/07/2006 10:09

Correction - I said going outside for longer when it is sunny and I meant doing it for longer when it is less sunny, sorry. We're probably only talking about minutes at a time, but I suppose some babies never get out at all without being wrapped like a coccoon or going in the car.

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mears · 13/07/2006 10:27

I never gave any of mine vitamins or iron. My babies slept outside in their pram though.

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bramblina · 13/07/2006 10:47

Thank you all very much.

My attitude to life is live as naturally and normally as possible so hopefully we'll get a mild dose of everything we need!

We go out for walks, I cook all meals from good quality ingredients, buy organic and free range where possible and just try to be sensible and healthy. (I've heard the phrase lentil weaver on here but I'm pretty sure I'm not one of those!). I believe vits and supplements have their place but I try to avoid anything that isn't necessary, and through this thread I have found that they can be unnecessary. I also think the more artificail things we introduce in to our lives (supplements etc) we come to depend on them, and this could encourage some to think if they are taking them, then there's no point in bothering to cook good food for example, as they're getting all the essentials from the pills.

A friend is happy to feed her dd a variety of Cow & Gate packet meals as "they have all the vitamins in them so I know she's getting the best" and this has therefore reduced the chance of this friend ever cooking properly for her dd.

I just want to avoid this attitude, so thanks all for your encouragement!

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BornBerry · 13/07/2006 11:30

Hmmm I'm not sure packet meals do have all the vitamins in them. Like other processed foods they are exactly that, processed - therefore dont contain whole grains, complex carbs or any essential fatty acids or minerals. To be frank I would no more feed my children convenience food everyday than I would eat ready meals myself everyday...at what point do these kids get to taste real food?

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Melh27 · 04/04/2007 22:05

the LLL questions and answers book says no need for vitamins in this country for a bf baby except in some circs - which are rare.

The iron in bf is much more easily absorbed than from food or ff.

Same is true when weaning etc.

hth a little

Mel xx

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mummytosteven · 04/04/2007 22:10

bit of an old thread here but - my friend was told to give her bf baby vitamins from birth as her baby was low birthweight (just over 5lb).

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