3 day old, want to BF.....!

(63 Posts)
fl0b0t Thu 12-Sep-13 19:38:51

Hi all.
I'm looking for some support and ideas!

I'm sorry this is long- I'm tired and want to make sure my intentions and experience so far is clear.

My lovely little boy was born on Monday, and hasn't been too keen to feed since. We have tried really hard- he seems pretty capable of latching on (except when his hands "help") but after 2-3 sucks he gives up. We have had lots of time skin to skin and I'm so so so so desperate to get it right. I've tried not to force him and just try to go with what seems natural.

I hand expressed teaspoons at a time quite easily which we fed him on a spoon with lots of midwife help- but went really well. Supply seemed to be fine for colostrum, but obviously hand expressing is pretty slow. They gave him a little weeny bit of formula to top up a couple of times from a cup and he took that well.

We came home last night after a great feed Weds morning- finally latching on and seeming to "get" it. The rest of Weds he didn't feed great and a scary pushy mean midwife made me give him a 40ml formula feed just before we left the hospital (I was tired, emotional, stressed and gave in).

After a hideous first night at home- trying to feed, then ending up expressing by hands as much as I could (hand pump didn't seem to work as colostrum too thick??), then by the very end giving a bit of formula ...... Community midwife visit today went well but he is quite jaundice and getting a bit sleepy (getting into that terrible cycle of too tired to feed, not feeding, getting more tired etc etc), so she gave me some help with getting the pump working (esp now my milk has come in) but has told me that we need to get some formula in him whilst we get the expressing working better. He really is a bit yellow and I understand he does need to eat.

So plan for 24 hours from this morning is (3 hourly):
-skin 2 skin/ massage breasts and get milk flowing (now real milk is coming in)
-try BF for max 20-30 mins (see if he will latch on and see if he we can keep him awake to keep feeding)
-if unsuccessful, for NOW, get 40-60 ml formula feed into him whilst I express as much as possible using the electric pump.

The idea of this (as explained to me) is to keep my milk coming, and to get him practicing sucking properly whilst ensuring he is fed.

The plan WILL be (3 hourly):
-skin 2 skin/ massage breasts and get milk flowing (now real milk is coming in)
-try BF for max 20-30 mins (see if he will latch on and see if he we can keep him awake to keep feeding)
-get pre-expressed breast milk heated to room temp and feed him whilst expressing the next lot for the next feed

Over the course of two sets of expressing I've collected 30ml (1oz or so) so far and my milk is definitely coming in a bit faster and better, so I'm hoping to get there.

We are really struggling to get him to stay awake for a whole feed. I'm trying hard not to get upset or feel too desperate about it all. I want to breast feed. I really really do. I also want a healthy baby .

I just want him to feed though. We're trying everything we can think of or find- he's changed first, stripped, we try to stimulate him by stroking his feet/chin/throat/cheeks, by blowing on him gently, sitting him up, having music etc on, talking to him- he just falls asleep.

We have another midwife visit tomorrow but I'm nervous of another fractuous night of baby not sleeping and not feeding. I've had 7 hours sleep in the last 72 (I know, welcome to the world of motherhood!)

ANY help or advice welcome......

To get him to stay awake for ANY feed. To get him to latch on better and suck better... anything! Please!

fl0b0t Thu 26-Sep-13 07:15:15

Any news on alternative products? We bought something with a brand name (can't remember)

magicberry Wed 25-Sep-13 21:31:31

www.analyticalarmadillo.co.uk/2013/04/before-you-try-infacol-try-this-blog.html is worth a read - many little ones do have digestive troubles at first, but there is no proof Infacol works.

tumbletumble Wed 25-Sep-13 07:58:16

You can use infacol from day one. Wind always worse at night IME!

fl0b0t Tue 24-Sep-13 17:47:26

HV seems to think it's colic so lets hope the infacol can fix it! smile

fl0b0t Tue 24-Sep-13 14:14:13

We think we're winding him well but it has crossed our minds. And weird that it only happens at night?

What age can you use infacol from?

tumbletumble Tue 24-Sep-13 06:24:31

Wind? Are you making sure he is properly winded after each feed? Could try Infacol?

fl0b0t Tue 24-Sep-13 03:56:37

Glad baby is feeding properly now but are going through difficult periods of about 4 hours a night screaming, thrashing about, short feeds, refusing to feed and then d screaming again. So draining. Any ideas? He is fine during the day.

fl0b0t Sat 21-Sep-13 02:55:41

Yes dorita sounds like his adduce and the pressure is of a bit! Good luck

Dorita75 Fri 20-Sep-13 09:21:01

Great news on the weight gain Flo, well done both of you!

Dorita75 Fri 20-Sep-13 09:19:55

Thanks Crikey and Flo, the breastfeeding team yesterday were great, also spoke to a mum with her 4th baby who reassured me they're all different hence her needing help too. I got shown good techniques and Eleanor latched for about a minute at one point, just not sucking. My nipples don't extend much so barely go past her lips, nevermind touch the roof of her mouth but advice on getting as much breast in there as poss was good. They made me feel more at ease, saying just try once a day when situation is favourable, and keep expressing. Feel much less pressure now so maybe we'll get there but if not its not the end of the world.

crikeybadger Wed 18-Sep-13 21:35:57

Well done flobot and baby flobot, great weight gain.smile

fl0b0t Wed 18-Sep-13 21:29:35

dorita=- YY to breastfeeding support groups/ clinics. I havebeen two two and got great adice each tim! Robin is now enjoying a feed from my ling on our sides with tummys touching. Much more comfy than trying to support his weight and getting a sore hand. Great news for us today- he's put on 250g which means he's back up past his birth weight! Going onto baby-led feeding but having said that I'm still having to wake him for a feed during the day so I'll probably still set alarms!

crikeybadger Wed 18-Sep-13 16:43:09

Dorita, not good when midwives are bickering with the breastfeeding group, just leaves you feel confused I imagine.

However, newborn babies do snack-they have little tummies after all. There may have been a reason why snacking was discouraged tho' ( maybe ask your mw to clarify?)
Sounds like you have made some progress in the latching -you 're right about being relaxed. There should be no forcing or pushing on the back of the head, just gentle encouragement and keeping little one close so you can look out for hunger cues.

If you want to chat things through with a trained breastfeeding counsellor, why not give one of the helplines a call. The numbers are on the main feeding page on here I think.

crikeybadger Wed 18-Sep-13 14:58:04

Good to get some face to face support Dorita.
May be worth starting a new thread detailing your baby's info- age, birth weight etc. Am I right in thinking she's not latched yet?

Dorita75 Wed 18-Sep-13 14:00:15

Midwife just been round and Eleanor has only put on 10g in 2 days despite us trying to feed her as much as possible as often as we can. She's drinking expressed bm and formula. This midwife says to feed up to 3 oz every 3 hours and try and get out of the 'snacking' feeding that Eleanor seems to be developing.

After trying the warm bath (which she was okay with for about 3mins!) and sitting in bed for skin on skin when nothing happened; hours later in bed almost accidentally and not trying, she took my nipple in her mouth and sucked a few times. Still no proper latch but it's proving to me that you can try everything but it depends on being relaxed - I assume she could sense my urging earlier even though I'm trying really hard to be relaxed! She still just doesn't open her mouth wide enough for a latch, and I've tried when she's hungry, just before she's hungry, when she's had a bit of bm from bottle, when I've just expressed a bit to start it off.....

Anyway, midwife wants us to to go to the breastfeeding support person tomorrow at the hospital, hopefully this 121 help from an expert will help.

To make things more complicated there's obviously a 'breastfeeding war' between the midwives and the local support group, the midwife saying they knew best - well I don't know what to do for the best!! Will just stay in touch with both I think!

dedado Wed 18-Sep-13 08:07:07

It's sometimes called the rugby ball hold. I tried them all ! My baby and I needed a lot of practice before it came easy for us. It's hard to imagine now I know, but you'll soon forget about lining up noses and nipples. Your baby will see a flash of flesh and be latched on themself before you have a chance to intervene. Honestly, bf was very difficult for me initially then became incredibly easy and incredibly convenient. You're doing great.

fl0b0t Wed 18-Sep-13 02:44:30

Thanks both. He had a good 48 hours or so feeding until this evening. He back 5 steps at least, refusing to feed from the breast and thrashing about for the 8pm feed then eventually after an hour we gave him ebm and he refused to settle. Then eleven on feed rocked up and i was dreading it. He fed just fine after latching on all and sleept wonderfully Til the next feed.dh now feeding him ebm as he spent half an hour thrashing about again . Problem is him grabbing the sore nipple which is just Sore add anything. Oh and the not feeding thing.

Such fa pain that he seems to settle in and then just goes back to square one.

dedado great idea! is that what they call the ball hold?

crikeybadger Tue 17-Sep-13 20:13:09

Fantastic, seems thing are really improving.smile
Another way to keep the baby sucking is to use breast compressions -Jack Newman's website has some video clips.
Well done for hanging in there.

dedado Tue 17-Sep-13 18:43:16

That's great news.

if your baby seems to prefer feeding from one side and you're using the classic hold , rather than flipping him upside down to change sides just slide him across to your other breast so you end up with his body under the arm on the same side you're feeding from.

dedado Tue 17-Sep-13 18:39:48

That's great news.

if your baby seems to prefer feeding from one side and you're using the classic hold , rather than flipping him upside down to change sides just slide him across to your other breast so you end up with his body under the arm you're feeding from.

fl0b0t Tue 17-Sep-13 03:24:36

Quick update. .. withg a baby attached to my breast! !

Robin has fed well all day!

Morning feed with a little help (I'm using about 10ml of ebm in a bottle to remind him how to feed before he will latch on)went perfectly. We got out to the specialist clinic today (at which I met two ladies from my ward in the r hospital) and got done further advice. Best advice so fat was a way of keeping him sucking once he had latched on-in the Classic across the body hold: put a little pressure on his shoulders towards the breast. Worked like a dream when he stopped sucking (except right now of course! !)

Only problems now seem to be needing help to remember how to feed first off (but <10ml ebm fixes that currently) and his dislike of right nipple! Once we have seen midwife on weds I hope she can confirm thatwe switch from seeing the alarm every three hours to feeding on demand!

Now hoping this little bit week fall asleep! He has been on and off the breast for an hour (with nappy change in the middle)

How the tat of you are getting some successes? !

fl0b0t Mon 16-Sep-13 06:19:27

dorita I could be completely wing but I get the idea it is s numver of things. It's nice and you and baby will both enjoy. They may find the nipple on their own which is good as is less stress full than trying to hold them in s position you've Been taught and almost trying to force them. It also helps you produce more oxytocin-if the baby so much as nuzzles your nipple it gets hormones going which helps your supply and helps your uterus contract etc too.

Sometimes my little man finds the nipples and does something with it, he doesn't always though. But I'm sure it's helping smile

Thanks crikey I'll check the flange size!
Think I may have got the latch wrong expressing for one session and now I'm paying for it!

Dorita75 Sun 15-Sep-13 22:46:42

Hurrah to flo!

I tried a nice skin to skin before, in bed all warm & toasty, she settled down and as usual, went to sleep with her mouth just to the side of my nipple while I expressed the other. When I tried to swap over she went hysterical and wouldn't calm down no matter what I tried, DP came in to find us both crying and managed to calm her down.

Can I ask a stupid question, is the point of skin to skin purely to get the baby as used to/comfortable with your skin as possible, not specifically to get a result of them feeding? The film we were showed in the antenatal class showed all these babies making their way to the boob which Eleanor does, she just doesn't do anything when she gets there....

fl0b0t Sun 15-Sep-13 21:08:22

That sounds about the same! He either falls asleep or thrashes about like I'm trying to murder him. He's a bit more responsive now to the boob, but I try to spend at least 2 long sessions skin 2 skin throughout the day or night plus a little extra whenever I feel like it.

[edit]- never finished posting.

HE FED! He only likes the left nipple which is a shame because it's the one with a milk blister which hurts! But he did 10 full minutes on it! smile

crikeybadger Sun 15-Sep-13 20:00:02

If you look at the medela site under 'finding the right shield size' it will tell you how to assess if the flanges on the pump are the right size.

Yes often babies who have a lot of mucous can be put off feeding because it just means they are less hungry. Retained placenta can affect milk supply ...but your supply seems good from what you say.

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