I need some facts to beat dh about the head with

[BuntyCollocks]

Dd has turned into a shocking sleeper since hitting 5 months.

Dh is convinced if we give her formula for her last feed before bed, or for the first middle of the night feed, she'll sleep a million times better.

I point out that the few times she's had a bottle of expressed milk, she has taken at most 1 1/2 oz, and her sleep was no markedly worse or better. When she breastfeeds, she is having far more than 1 1/2 oz.

I need something factual, if it exists, that states he's talking absolute bollocks, please!

[SoulTrain]

How do you know she's taking far more when she breast feeds?

[FetchezLaVache]

Are we talking days or weeks? Could it just be a growth spurt and she needs a bit more?

[Flibbedyjibbet]

Met somebody today who has a 14 week old bf baby who sleeps 8 to 6. That kind of shits on the bf babies wake loads argument.

We tried a formula feed with DD1, made shag all difference to the frequent waker.

I've said it before I'll say it again, you get a sleeper or you don't why couldn't even 1 of mine be a sleeper

[ipswichwitch]

DH wanted to try this when DS was about 5 months (after major pressure from IL's). The only difference to his sleep was that it made him worse - he was always refluxy but giving him a bottle made him a thousand times worse and he screamed all night.
Like flibbedy says, you either get a sleeper or you don't but I believe there's naff all you can do to change it (and looks like DC2 is shaping up to be the same when it arrives in December judging by all the kicking going on)

[CreatureRetorts]

There's a sleep regression and growth spurt at around 5 months.

Plus formula is made to mimic breastmilk. Same calories. So it's not more filling, just harder to digest. You might might get an extra hour.

Tell your DH that sometimes babies just wake up a bit more. If formula really was the magic answer, then all the baby sleep books would tell you to give a bottle. They don't funnily enough.

[BuntyCollocks]

Sorry, I meant to say in my op, dd is now 8 months old. She's my second breastfed baby, and I know the signs of a good feed - lots of swallowing, satisfied afterward ...

She feeds generally for about 15 minutes, now, and can drain a bottle at the same rate of swallowing of that 1 1/2 oz in under a minute.

If it's a growth spurt, it's the longest one ever! Could kick myself for leaving out her current age - what an eedgit.

One other piece of info I forgot to mention: she stopped sleeping when we moved her from her hammock (she was able to kick out of it, and I was worried she'd fall out) into her cot. She has since been diagnosed with reflux - one of the things the hammock is meant to aid with is reflux. I have tried putting her on her tummy or side to sleep, but it makes no difference.

There's no rhyme nor reason to her awakenings. The only consistency is if she doesn't nap enough through the day we're guaranteed a shit night. Each night we have which is 'good', we try to recreate, and we don't get another good night.

It's just so frustrating. She has me on my knees with tiredness.

[CreatureRetorts]

So she's on solids - have you kept a food diary to check for reactions? My two had reflux and certain foods were a no no when babies as really ruined their sleep. Formula was a no as both reacted badly to dairy.

You can get cot blocks to raise the head of her cot. Also see if she'll sleep on her tummy?

[BuntyCollocks]

Yes - no discernible pattern. She wasn't weaned until after the sleep problems began. Tried tummy sleeping and raising the cot - no better. :(

[stargirl1701]

Have you thought about meds? Ranitidine?

[CreatureRetorts]

But the sleep problems could have been ye 5 month regression which then rolled into issues with food.

What is her diet like? Dairy? Green veg, onions that give you wind? Eggs that give you wind? You'd only know if you cut down to simple solids then worked back up. I found simple "meat and two veg" type meals worked best.

[InMyShreddies]

Seriously? Meds over a bottle of formula?

I'm with your DH I'm afraid - unless you're really keen to bf extendedly, it most likely will help. Babies who are bf might have all sorts of other benefits, but it's a fact that formula - being harder to digest - tends to make for sleepier babies. Yes it might not work but it probably will. I think don't bother denying that it would probably help, but if you're really keen to avoid giving formula for whatever reason, swot up on the benefits of bf and use them to persuade your DH. If you value sleep as much as I do then really, formula isn't evil. You have given your baby a fantastic start and if you give him formula now, the likelihood is that it wouldn't do anything other than get you both a better night's sleep.

Fully expect to be told how awful formula is and how you should avoid it at all costs - meh, I'm more pragmatic. If you're weaning anyway, what's the biggie?

[stargirl1701]

Meds for reflux, damn straight. Would you suffer with heartburn every time you ate and take nothing? I sure as hell wouldn't and I wouldn't leave a tiny baby to suffer either.

[K8Middleton]

Some babies just don't sleep well on their own. Neither of mine have and one was ebf and one mixed fed. 8 months was a total battle with dc1 who did not want to sleep in his cot. Dd is now 10mo and also sleeps much better when next to someone.

Could this be it? I know people have different opinions about this but mine just won't settle if they can't find a person next to them. Of course this has different drawbacks and compromises so it's not necessarily a solution to sleep together.

[AFishWithoutABicycle]

My bf dd slept better than any of my friends babies were fed hungry baby formula.
I've nothing against ff just don't think it's the main factor in sleep. Not for mine anyway.

[CreatureRetorts]

Agree with stargirl. And there's no jeffing way I'd give a reflux baby formula unless I was damn sure they didn't react to it!! Heartburn is nasty - calling it reflux in babies diminishes it somewhat.

Noone says formula is evil - but I'm sure I've read that in actual fact you might get an extra hour. But as I've said up thread no one has ever proven that ff is the panacea to sleep problems. Because it isn't.

[MoominsYonisAreScary]

I have 4 dcs,
Ds1 started sleeping through at 22 month
Ds2 around 20 months
Ds3 was 22 months, but still wskes 3-4 times a week
Ds4 was 8 weeks

The only thing I did differently was bf ds4

[nickelbabe]

I agree - baby has reflux, which means digestion is painful.
why then give something that's harder to digest?

get to the doctor's and get some meds!

[mrsmartin1984]

Allot of babies have a regression at that age. My DD started being a nightmare at 5 months due to teething. Started giving her calpol when she is really restless to sooth the symptoms. I would recommend that if they are showing signs.

Formula does not make babies sleep better. It's a myth

[Debs75]

Agree with nickelbabe.

Formula is not a magic sleep aid. It I harder to digest then breastmilk so babies may often sleep longer then on a breastfeed. It is more bulky then formula as in your breastmilk will change as baby changes so it is always nutritionally right for your baby. Formula milk you have to give more so baby will be bloated and therefore want to sleep.

You say your baby has reflux. I would rather try things to help with the reflux before giving formula. Have you tried feeding her sat up? If you lay back slightly and then put dd on your knee and let her lean forward to feed and keep her upright as much as possible for 15 mins or so after the feed has finished this is meant to help reflux.

How bad are the nights? Does she just wake more or is she really fractious?
For me if it was just waking more I would continue just breastfeeding. If she was fractious I would just continue breastfeeding

[BuntyCollocks]

I plan to let her self wean, so breastfeeding is important to me.

We were given gaviscon by the one helpful doctor at our surgery - unfortunately she became so constipated on it that she's only now starting to poo normally (3 weeks after the fact!), and even that's had to be helped along by a suppository

Went back to dr on Friday, about the poo situation, and mentioned the reflux and not sleeping. Idiot dr told me the reflux wouldn't affect her sleeping as she'd just be sick and go back to sleep appt for the good dr are literally 2 months in advance, and she doesn't do the emergency spots you can phone up for on the day.

She has a hospital appt later this month, and the paediatric are excellent - she had a dairy intolerance (we think) when tiny, caused by antibiotics when she was days old destroying the good bacteria in her gut, another reason I don't want to introduce formula.

She does sleep well with me - sometimes. Sometimes not. She had a huge run of ear infections (god, this just sounds like she's a monster - she's honestly a little delight! We've just had a rough time) at 5 months, too, and the way we knew she was ill was she wouldn't sleep anywhere but with me. Now she just won't sleep. Haha.

[BuntyCollocks]

The nights range from up two or three times for feeds, to up twice, but one of those is a 2 hour plus wakening at 3am, to every half hour, which was last Tuesday and Wednesday's delight. A lot of the time she doesn't even want/need fed. She just needs to be cuddled in.

Can't leave her to cry as ds is prone to being woken by her as well, and as much as I enjoy his company, Thomas and a two year old up for the day at 4am is not an experience I like to repeat

[Fraxinus]

Can you set the hammock up in the cot so she only has a tiny distance to fall?

(doens't know anything about baby hammocks)

[TruthSweet]

Bunty - So baby has reflux and has previously (still?) had a dairy reaction - are you and her dairy free? There are a few options for reflux other than gaviscon which I refused to have for DD4 as DD1 had gaviscon with much the same results as your DD. DD4 had domperidone, then ranitidine and omeprazole. Have you tried keeping a food diary for you both to see if there is a link between her sleep and her diet (or yours). Normally women don't have to worry about diet when bfing as most babies aren't sensitive to certain proteins, when its a reasonable guess that food allergy/intolerance is causing issues then looking at diet is something to consider.

As for science and facts try here - the first link in the orange box on the right hand side makes for some myth busting reading re. Ffing mums getting more sleep (obv. individual families may have different experiences).

[CreatureRetorts]

I bet her reflux still bothers her. I'm at the GP waiting times - can you switch surgery or complain?!

[Meringue33]

Hiya Bunty

We gave a bottle of formula at 10pm from 10 weeks, it worked until the four month sleep regression hit and now nothing works ... He is 8 mo next week and still at wits end.