Pumps, fore and hind milk?

[Newt]

I have just started using a hand pump (avent isis) today. Is there any way of knowing how much fore milk and hind milk is being produced? I produced 3 ounces..will this have the correct mix?

Also I felt nauseous, and queasy when I was pumping..is this common?

Dd is now 8 weeks old and has completely rejected this, her first bottle of ebm. I used a 'Steri-bottle'
Any tips ?

[twiglett]

message withdrawn

[Newt]

Thanks for that advice twiglett. I was in the room when dp tried the bottle. Any advice on a good booby type teat?

[motherinferior]

Try one of the cheap latex (dummy-type) orthodontic teats. If she takes it, you've also got a very cheap solution.

The milk will be mixed together fine. I think some people do get nauseous because of the let-down, and/or the force of the vacuum, but I'm not sure how common it is.

Some more tips (I've just had to write an article on breast pumps and expressing!) gleaned principally from the lovely Mumsnetters:
? Relax as much as you can. Don?t do your first expressing session under pressure to produce a certain amount by a certain time ? just see how it goes.
? Try hand-expressing to getting the milk flowing before you use the pump, especially the first few times. A warm flannel on the breast can help too.
? You?re aiming for a let-down (especially if you?re using a hand pump) ? that feeling of milk coming in which you get when breastfeeding. Different women get this in different ways; it may help to think about your baby or look at a photo ? on the other hand you may find it better to read a frivolous magazine or watch the TV. See which works best for you.
? Milk comes out in spurts. As you get a let-down from one breast (you may leak slightly from the other at the same time) pump from that one, and then switch to the other when the first breast slows. Switching back and forth will produce more milk than pumping for a set time on first one and then the other.
? Some women express after breastfeeding, and/or from one breast if the baby?s concentrated on the other.
? A quiet night-time slot or first thing in the morning work well for many.
? If you?ve tried and tried and aren?t getting anything much, don?t push it. And you may even find that just as you stop worrying about it, the milk lets down.
? Don?t worry about having enough left for the baby. The breast will produce more milk when you breastfeed.

HTH!

[Newt]

Many thanks for the tips, motherinferior!

I don't have a problem with let-down..I mean my milk was coming out fine..I pumped out 3 oz in a few minutes..but felt sick the whole time.

I do find it a little odd that a lot of emphasis is made about foremilk and hindmilk for bf yet not with expressing! GF etc who say that the rich hind stuff comes in after 15/20 mins etc...

I also hate the smell of the plastic pump..maybe I'll try again later with that teat..any brand you know of?

[squirmyworm]

HI Newt, I'm a new girl to all this too and I have found the following.

I was fascinated by fore/hind stuff and I find that when I start pumping, for the first oz or so it looks watery and thin and pale but that once I've started to find I'm running a bit low and have 'done' that breast it is richer and more yellow - hold the bottle up to the light or against white paper and you'll see what I mean.

If I find I have only expressed very watery stuff I carry on until it looks a bit more 'cows milk'like.

Also find that a rhythm that goes squeeze squeeze squeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeze, holding the handle down for a few secs on the third squeeze seems to work well for me. Don't know about the nausea I'm afraid.

ds has now started to reject an avent teat after being fine with it for ages and mumnsetters recommended tommee tippee nuby ones - I have now bought a couple to try...

good luck newt - we invertebrates must stick together (are newts invertebrates?)

[aloha]

The mix will be fine - there is no 'cut off point' where foremilk becomes hindmilk. There is no 'correct' mix either. It's more organic than that. I suspect if you keep pumping you will get past this nausea sensation - I never experienced it but suspect it is largely emotional. It's a funny business, pumping.

[bossykate]

newt, i agree with you that the "rules" for successful b/f (e.g. foremilk, hindmilk etc) seem to be thrown out of the window when it comes to expressing - btw it is not just GF who mentions this but b/f bibles such as "bestfeeding". it's one of the things i didn't quite crack last time and have resolved to get right this time round.

[Newt]

Thanks for all the advice..
aloha I know the mix is an organic thing, but precisely using a pump as opposed to bf feels less organic and therefore I am more wary about producing the right mix. Suirmyworm ta for squeeze tips..alas we are not related, I might eat you tho!
This fore and hind thing..one thing I have noticed when bf is that if dd stays on one breast for a feed, even for up to 40 mins, she is generally not sick, but if I offer her second breast during a feed and after a burp, she often sicks it up. I imagine this is baby equivalent of noshing a lovely big curry then having a pint of lager at the end of it!

[Evita]

Newt, you might be able to see when you're expressing and the milk is going into the first part of the pump that at the beginning it's quite translucent, then seems to get more opaque. That's the hind milk coming in.

Don't know about the nausea. Could be coincidence or could be just the horror of expressing for the first time. I expressed a lot and always HATED it.

I found the Tomy Tippee Nuby teats, variable flow, were far the best. In general I think variable flow are good because the baby controls the flow of the milk as they can with a breast feed.

It took dd until she was 9 months before she really drank a substantial amount from a bottle, and we tried for ages and tried everything. It was a bit of a nightmare. But you're trying at the right age, we left it too late and didn't try til she was 4-5 months.

[aloha]

Newt, I honestly think babies are sick because they have too much, because sucking is so lovely and comforting, not because the mix is wrong.