Eating lots of cake is not going to help is it?

(30 Posts)
Haywire Thu 25-Apr-13 13:01:23

Saw HV yesterday to get 12 week DD weighed as 3 months yesterday Had dropped down to under 2nd percentile from 9th ARRRGH! ( had recent thread about tiny babes in case sounds familiar everyone very reassuring and said if following line ok etc.)

HV very supportive as baby in every other way seems fine, suggested eating a high fat diet for 2 weeks then coming back but this is bunk no? I thought body took what it needed and have me the dregs so to speak. In any case I eat plenty of fat e.g butter cheese cake, biscuits, crisps I am no skinny minnie.

Feel at an utter loss as to why dd not putting on more think she just is not a big baby am veering wildly between thinking and that's ok and panic.

Gurke Sat 27-Apr-13 00:10:03

Just to add that apart from the Wonder Weeks book, I also really rate book by Spanish pediatrician My Child Won't Eat - has great chapters on breastfeeding & weight gain (or lack of) - might make you relax too, OP! His advice is much like what tiktok has said; he also has a useful section on these centiles & graphs, and why being on a low one is generally absolutely fine! Found it all very reassuring when my ds went on his first (of many) nursing strikes. Your dd sounds lovely OP & you are doing a great job.

claremp7 Fri 26-Apr-13 03:58:15

Hi for those of you wanting help and support have you got a bosom buddies group near you? We were almost about togo on to foformula but with their support. A diagnosed tongue tie and taught me how to latch on better we're still going strong ten weeks in

mathanxiety Thu 25-Apr-13 20:24:32

blush 12 weeks, read it as 2 weeks..

Haywire Thu 25-Apr-13 20:03:12

Thanks tiktok for all your advice I really appreciate people taking the time to help. Have wonder weeks app on my phonesmile

Harriet I am only well informed due to mumsnet and all the great advice on these boards! We do co-sleep, well dd is in a bednest co-sleeper and I have a moby and manduca which we use every day.

Dd is feisty little thing screams like a teardactyl when she doesn't like things but rest of the time is the most gorgeous smiley happy girl.

WouldBeHarrietVane Thu 25-Apr-13 19:48:55

Haywire, sounds like you are very well informed! Also sounds like your dd is doing well and happy with the bm she is getting.

The things I would have suggested it sounds like you've already tried:

- offering often (before she's hungry/asking)
- always offering as many 'sides' as she needs
- breast compressions to increase milk transfer

Have you considered co sleeping / more time skin to skin? Both of those can also increase feeding frequency, even at this stage. Carrying baby in a sling close to your breasts can also encourage more feeding. If you co sleep you need to follow all the safety guidance obviously.

tiktok Thu 25-Apr-13 19:30:46

okthen sounds like a behavioural thing not a feeding thing, to be honest - try reading The Wonder Weeks, there's loads of evidence-based stuff in it that explains these strange phases smile

Haywire Thu 25-Apr-13 19:28:40

Plenty of wet and pooey nappies so something going in smile

Yes feel let down and house is fairly balmy have heating on still.

Just fed her and tried to get her to stay on a bit longer/offered 3rd side she went nuts had a complete meltdown was so cross think she knows when she's had enough.

okthen Thu 25-Apr-13 19:23:39

Shit sorry- meant to start a new post (sleep deprived)

okthen Thu 25-Apr-13 19:22:48

Would love some bf advice.

Ds is nearly 6 months old. He feeds every 3-4 hours day and night, ebf.

Recently his feeding has been a little odd. He seems absolutely desperate to feed whenever I am near him- sucking at my shoulder, neck, wherever! But when I feed him he only feeds for 5-10 minutes and it can be a real performance- pulling away, squealing, fussing, arm flailing wildly etc. even at night sometimes.

Both the constant clamouring for a feed, and the feeds themselves, are stressing me out and I wonder if he's feeding properly and if not, why not.

I have a strong let-down (spray everywhere still, even at nearly 6 months), and get very full breasts with loads of leaking. I feel like I shouldn't be getting through this many breast pads at this stage!

Ds's weight plateaud over the past couple of months so hv recommended starting him on solids (can I politely ask that nobody tells me this was the wrong thing to do- it's done now and he is loving solids and having breakfast and dinner).

I'd love to establish the calm, satisfying feeds I remember dd having (which may also allow him to go longer at night without feeding- am knackered)

TIA

tiktok Thu 25-Apr-13 17:02:34

Also it doesn't matter if she feels a let down or not - some women never do. In any case, the baby is alive and growing and has been here for 12 weeks so she is letting down smile

tiktok Thu 25-Apr-13 17:00:20

Nappies no guide at all at 12 weeks, math .

mathanxiety Thu 25-Apr-13 16:58:27

How many wet nappies and poos are there daily?

Are you feeling a let down reflex every time?

How cold is your house?

tiktok Thu 25-Apr-13 16:39:45

Glad it helped.

Foremilk/hindmilk is not 'false' - the milk does change in its fat content. But the breast does not make two different sorts of milk and there is no sudden change, and usually, we don't have to even think about any of it!

Trouble is, somewhere in midwives' and HVs' training/grape vine, a large no. have got completely the wrong idea and have introduced new rules about it sad

Wishiwasanheiress Thu 25-Apr-13 16:35:49

Ah tiktok, tried ur link out. Great info. Answered my question!

Wishiwasanheiress Thu 25-Apr-13 16:21:40

I'm confused. I had dd1 2yrs ago and was told about hind/fore milk and told on this site twas false. It's just milk. Has views altered again? Have a 13wk dd again so I'm checking this board out again to try to update myself. (Good question op, interesting thread)

Thanks! smile

tiktok Thu 25-Apr-13 16:11:04

Haywire, if your HV is good and supportive in every other way, can you share your concerns with her? explain you cannot really accept the stuff about eating fatty foods, but you would like her to assess your baby's well-being and if there is nothing really to worry about, you would like some reassurance....if you're nice and she's nice about it, it could help!

AlfieBear87 Thu 25-Apr-13 15:38:19

Thanks tiktok that's very interesting. It seems the midwives in Staffordshire need updating!

Haywire Thu 25-Apr-13 15:16:03

Yes maybe she is meant to be small was 50th when born dropped lots after birth took 3 weeks to regain birthweight.

I live in middle of nowhere mid wales not sure where to go to for good advice will try and focus on positives.

tiktok Thu 25-Apr-13 14:28:11

Have you considered that your dd might be just fine, and that her lower centile is just normal for her?

Makes sense to ensure she is offered more breasts and to encourage her to stay on task, but this does not sound like a case of underweight or underfeeding, to be honest....the drop to the 2nd centile from the 9th is within normal. You have had the latch checked - my concern would be that if you look hard enough you will eventually find someone who says 'yes there is a problem here' and there isn't really smile Better to find someone you can trust who can assess the 'whole baby' and give you a steer on her overall well-being. Focussing on milk transfer is only a teeny tiny part of your baby's life and health - if you find out she is fine from someone who knows what they are talking about and who does not see latch, or weight, in an isolated overly-important way then maybe you will feel better smile

Haywire Thu 25-Apr-13 14:03:55

Does seem to be a crazy amount of misinformation out there.

I have also been told to pump off fore milk? not by HV but cannot pump for love nor money so not an option.

Have been using compressions and offering both breasts every time or 4 or 5 if i can persuade he. She is a dozy feeder always has been so I nappy change burp etc to keep her on task. Is there anything else I can do is it worth going down the fenugreek path? My feeling is it is transfer rather than supply who can I get to check latch who might be able to help MW's Hv's Local Bf peer to peer all said was fine.

tiktok Thu 25-Apr-13 14:00:00

Alfie you ask about one side or two smile

It's mistaken to be dogmatic about it - there are no rules. It's as 'wrong' to say babies 'always' need both sides as it is to say 'babies should only ever have one side'.

There is no concern about ensuring the baby 'gets the hindmilk' and there never was.....except in the mad old days when babies were routinely fed for no longer than 10 mins each side which meant the baby was being removed from side one in order to have an equal time on side two. But that has not been mainstream advice for 30 years.

The vast majority of babies do just fine if they are 'allowed' to set the pace and frequency and number of 'sides' themselves. This means in the early days it's a good idea to offer both sides, to make sure production is stimulated on both sides, without worrying if the baby takes side 2 every time (or even ever).

If there is concern about supply, intake or weight gain, then the quickest way to up production and intake is to deliberately offer both sides, and certainly to stop routinely not offering both sides. Milk fat content does indeed increase, proportionately, as the breastmilk is removed, and emptier breasts have milk in them that's higher in fat . But this is not something anyone feeding a healthy baby as often as he 'asks' needs to be concerned about.

Milk supply needs very little 'engineering' and you would only deliberatelty restrict the baby to one side if you had serious probs with over supply - because deliberately restricting to one side reduces supply.

Any HCP who is telling mothers about one side only for any other reason needs updating smile

More here on this blog: thefunnyshapedwoman.blogspot.co.uk/2011/05/foremilk-and-hindmilk-in-quest-of.html

CarrierbagPrincess Thu 25-Apr-13 13:50:05

I wish I'd known this when my ds was three weeks old and 1% under his birth weight. As he hadn't returned to 9lbs 2 I was being told to eat all of the Christmas cakes/biscuits/snacks I could lay my hands on. I was brand spanking new to parenting so took this to heart, but really wish I'd been given more useful advice. At booking in I had a BMI of 29.5 so seems dangerously stupid to encourage this kind of diet.

Haywire Thu 25-Apr-13 13:41:18

Cross post No worries AlfieBear as I understand it the hindmilk/foremilk thing is not thought to matter any more idea is just to feed as often as possible.

Thanks Tiktok and Eau Rouge I knew it was rubbish when she said it. In all other ways she is very supportive but not sure she really knows what she is talking about.

I am not concerned about DD's development etc. But would like her to be gaining a bit better for my piece of mind will try offering more often.

Haywire Thu 25-Apr-13 13:35:20

Thanks NQC thats what I understood re diet having little difference and in any case mine is fine.

DD is very lively smiling and laughing at her big sister , is incredibly strong wants to stand all the time has amazing head control doing everything she should really except putting on weight.

I feed her on demand whenever she wants she has been fussier on the breast of late perhaps she is just becoming more distracted, am trying to make sure Latch is good each feed.

She does not seem like she is being starved she sleeps ok for naps and at night waking once or twice for a feed between 8.30ish and 7

AlfieBear87 Thu 25-Apr-13 13:35:14

I'm in a similar position with my 4wo ds2.

tiktok should you always offer both breasts? I thought you should just feed of one side each time to make sure they get all the hindmilk? I'll do anything to make him put on weight - he's now 6lb14oz (an increase of 1oz since birth) and he was induced due to static growth in the womb.

Sorry for butting in on your thread op

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