Eating lots of cake is not going to help is it?

(30 Posts)
Haywire Thu 25-Apr-13 13:01:23

Saw HV yesterday to get 12 week DD weighed as 3 months yesterday Had dropped down to under 2nd percentile from 9th ARRRGH! ( had recent thread about tiny babes in case sounds familiar everyone very reassuring and said if following line ok etc.)

HV very supportive as baby in every other way seems fine, suggested eating a high fat diet for 2 weeks then coming back but this is bunk no? I thought body took what it needed and have me the dregs so to speak. In any case I eat plenty of fat e.g butter cheese cake, biscuits, crisps I am no skinny minnie.

Feel at an utter loss as to why dd not putting on more think she just is not a big baby am veering wildly between thinking and that's ok and panic.

willyoulistentome Thu 25-Apr-13 13:12:36

I was advised to eat lots of protein rich food. Babies need protein to grow bigger. It did seem to make a difference. Drink LOTS too. If I had a not enough protein day or a not enough to drink day ( Pints!!) then my babies were wanting milk more often.

What you eat makes very little difference. There are great photos out there of mothers in starvation conditions. The mothers look terrible - the babies look fine.

Is your daughter lively? Is she growing and happy, and meeting her developmental milestones?

It's possible she's just the size she's meant to be. Is her latch ok? Is she feeding as often as she wants to?

tiktok Thu 25-Apr-13 13:25:56

HOW RIDICULOUS!!!

If your HV thinks your baby does need to gain more weight, then why does she not come up with something that is likely to work?

Extra protein will make ZERO difference (sorry, willyou); extra fluid ZERO difference (sorry, again!); extra fat - ZERO.

Individual people may have what they perceive as individual experiences, but honestly, it is not biologically plausible that these things make a difference. The protein/fat in your own diet does not (and actually cannot) shoot into the milk to make it higher in protein or fat. The fluid you take in does not make any difference (and cannot make any difference) to the volume of milk you produce.

There has been quite a lot of research done on this, and we do know that maternal diet only starts to make a difference to milk production when mothers are approaching starvation or are on precarious, marginal diets for a long time including way before and during pregnancy.

It makes me cross, because this RUBBISH is told to mothers instead of assessing the baby properly and seeing if the baby does need to gain more and instead of talking about ways to increase the baby's intake that actually work : ( sad

Haywire, the quickest and easiest way to increase your baby's intake is to offer more feeds, day and night, and to ensure she is offered at least both breasts each time. She may not want to accept any or all of the offers - that's ok smile She may not need them. Then you can ask your HV where on earth she is getting her bf info from sad

EauRouge Thu 25-Apr-13 13:26:52

Yep, tis bunkum that you need to eat a high fat diet- that will just make you fat! Your diet makes next to no difference to your milk. Eat healthily so that you feel good, but don't worry about the quality of your milk.

If your HV is not worried then there's probably no need for you to worry either. As Cockney said, how do you feel your DD is? You see her every day and know her better than anyone, have you got any concerns?

You can just offer the breast more often if you want her to eat more. You can't overfeed her.

AlfieBear87 Thu 25-Apr-13 13:35:14

I'm in a similar position with my 4wo ds2.

tiktok should you always offer both breasts? I thought you should just feed of one side each time to make sure they get all the hindmilk? I'll do anything to make him put on weight - he's now 6lb14oz (an increase of 1oz since birth) and he was induced due to static growth in the womb.

Sorry for butting in on your thread op

Haywire Thu 25-Apr-13 13:35:20

Thanks NQC thats what I understood re diet having little difference and in any case mine is fine.

DD is very lively smiling and laughing at her big sister , is incredibly strong wants to stand all the time has amazing head control doing everything she should really except putting on weight.

I feed her on demand whenever she wants she has been fussier on the breast of late perhaps she is just becoming more distracted, am trying to make sure Latch is good each feed.

She does not seem like she is being starved she sleeps ok for naps and at night waking once or twice for a feed between 8.30ish and 7

Haywire Thu 25-Apr-13 13:41:18

Cross post No worries AlfieBear as I understand it the hindmilk/foremilk thing is not thought to matter any more idea is just to feed as often as possible.

Thanks Tiktok and Eau Rouge I knew it was rubbish when she said it. In all other ways she is very supportive but not sure she really knows what she is talking about.

I am not concerned about DD's development etc. But would like her to be gaining a bit better for my piece of mind will try offering more often.

CarrierbagPrincess Thu 25-Apr-13 13:50:05

I wish I'd known this when my ds was three weeks old and 1% under his birth weight. As he hadn't returned to 9lbs 2 I was being told to eat all of the Christmas cakes/biscuits/snacks I could lay my hands on. I was brand spanking new to parenting so took this to heart, but really wish I'd been given more useful advice. At booking in I had a BMI of 29.5 so seems dangerously stupid to encourage this kind of diet.

tiktok Thu 25-Apr-13 14:00:00

Alfie you ask about one side or two smile

It's mistaken to be dogmatic about it - there are no rules. It's as 'wrong' to say babies 'always' need both sides as it is to say 'babies should only ever have one side'.

There is no concern about ensuring the baby 'gets the hindmilk' and there never was.....except in the mad old days when babies were routinely fed for no longer than 10 mins each side which meant the baby was being removed from side one in order to have an equal time on side two. But that has not been mainstream advice for 30 years.

The vast majority of babies do just fine if they are 'allowed' to set the pace and frequency and number of 'sides' themselves. This means in the early days it's a good idea to offer both sides, to make sure production is stimulated on both sides, without worrying if the baby takes side 2 every time (or even ever).

If there is concern about supply, intake or weight gain, then the quickest way to up production and intake is to deliberately offer both sides, and certainly to stop routinely not offering both sides. Milk fat content does indeed increase, proportionately, as the breastmilk is removed, and emptier breasts have milk in them that's higher in fat . But this is not something anyone feeding a healthy baby as often as he 'asks' needs to be concerned about.

Milk supply needs very little 'engineering' and you would only deliberatelty restrict the baby to one side if you had serious probs with over supply - because deliberately restricting to one side reduces supply.

Any HCP who is telling mothers about one side only for any other reason needs updating smile

More here on this blog: thefunnyshapedwoman.blogspot.co.uk/2011/05/foremilk-and-hindmilk-in-quest-of.html

Haywire Thu 25-Apr-13 14:03:55

Does seem to be a crazy amount of misinformation out there.

I have also been told to pump off fore milk? not by HV but cannot pump for love nor money so not an option.

Have been using compressions and offering both breasts every time or 4 or 5 if i can persuade he. She is a dozy feeder always has been so I nappy change burp etc to keep her on task. Is there anything else I can do is it worth going down the fenugreek path? My feeling is it is transfer rather than supply who can I get to check latch who might be able to help MW's Hv's Local Bf peer to peer all said was fine.

tiktok Thu 25-Apr-13 14:28:11

Have you considered that your dd might be just fine, and that her lower centile is just normal for her?

Makes sense to ensure she is offered more breasts and to encourage her to stay on task, but this does not sound like a case of underweight or underfeeding, to be honest....the drop to the 2nd centile from the 9th is within normal. You have had the latch checked - my concern would be that if you look hard enough you will eventually find someone who says 'yes there is a problem here' and there isn't really smile Better to find someone you can trust who can assess the 'whole baby' and give you a steer on her overall well-being. Focussing on milk transfer is only a teeny tiny part of your baby's life and health - if you find out she is fine from someone who knows what they are talking about and who does not see latch, or weight, in an isolated overly-important way then maybe you will feel better smile

Haywire Thu 25-Apr-13 15:16:03

Yes maybe she is meant to be small was 50th when born dropped lots after birth took 3 weeks to regain birthweight.

I live in middle of nowhere mid wales not sure where to go to for good advice will try and focus on positives.

AlfieBear87 Thu 25-Apr-13 15:38:19

Thanks tiktok that's very interesting. It seems the midwives in Staffordshire need updating!

tiktok Thu 25-Apr-13 16:11:04

Haywire, if your HV is good and supportive in every other way, can you share your concerns with her? explain you cannot really accept the stuff about eating fatty foods, but you would like her to assess your baby's well-being and if there is nothing really to worry about, you would like some reassurance....if you're nice and she's nice about it, it could help!

Wishiwasanheiress Thu 25-Apr-13 16:21:40

I'm confused. I had dd1 2yrs ago and was told about hind/fore milk and told on this site twas false. It's just milk. Has views altered again? Have a 13wk dd again so I'm checking this board out again to try to update myself. (Good question op, interesting thread)

Thanks! smile

Wishiwasanheiress Thu 25-Apr-13 16:35:49

Ah tiktok, tried ur link out. Great info. Answered my question!

tiktok Thu 25-Apr-13 16:39:45

Glad it helped.

Foremilk/hindmilk is not 'false' - the milk does change in its fat content. But the breast does not make two different sorts of milk and there is no sudden change, and usually, we don't have to even think about any of it!

Trouble is, somewhere in midwives' and HVs' training/grape vine, a large no. have got completely the wrong idea and have introduced new rules about it sad

mathanxiety Thu 25-Apr-13 16:58:27

How many wet nappies and poos are there daily?

Are you feeling a let down reflex every time?

How cold is your house?

tiktok Thu 25-Apr-13 17:00:20

Nappies no guide at all at 12 weeks, math .

tiktok Thu 25-Apr-13 17:02:34

Also it doesn't matter if she feels a let down or not - some women never do. In any case, the baby is alive and growing and has been here for 12 weeks so she is letting down smile

okthen Thu 25-Apr-13 19:22:48

Would love some bf advice.

Ds is nearly 6 months old. He feeds every 3-4 hours day and night, ebf.

Recently his feeding has been a little odd. He seems absolutely desperate to feed whenever I am near him- sucking at my shoulder, neck, wherever! But when I feed him he only feeds for 5-10 minutes and it can be a real performance- pulling away, squealing, fussing, arm flailing wildly etc. even at night sometimes.

Both the constant clamouring for a feed, and the feeds themselves, are stressing me out and I wonder if he's feeding properly and if not, why not.

I have a strong let-down (spray everywhere still, even at nearly 6 months), and get very full breasts with loads of leaking. I feel like I shouldn't be getting through this many breast pads at this stage!

Ds's weight plateaud over the past couple of months so hv recommended starting him on solids (can I politely ask that nobody tells me this was the wrong thing to do- it's done now and he is loving solids and having breakfast and dinner).

I'd love to establish the calm, satisfying feeds I remember dd having (which may also allow him to go longer at night without feeding- am knackered)

TIA

okthen Thu 25-Apr-13 19:23:39

Shit sorry- meant to start a new post (sleep deprived)

Haywire Thu 25-Apr-13 19:28:40

Plenty of wet and pooey nappies so something going in smile

Yes feel let down and house is fairly balmy have heating on still.

Just fed her and tried to get her to stay on a bit longer/offered 3rd side she went nuts had a complete meltdown was so cross think she knows when she's had enough.

tiktok Thu 25-Apr-13 19:30:46

okthen sounds like a behavioural thing not a feeding thing, to be honest - try reading The Wonder Weeks, there's loads of evidence-based stuff in it that explains these strange phases smile

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