help - BF baby straining big style to poop - what do I do?

[Munz]

any ideas what I can do? we've had yet another sleepless night as Joey's been straining to poop, he's 8 weeks now, by day he's exceleent as long as he poops after his feeds and has big burps, he does have colic which i'm using infacol with, brings the wind up lovely, at night the first half he'll do really well - normally 4/5 hours strech of no feeding/letting me sleep, but when he wakes for his next feed (can be anything from 1am to 3am) and can take anything from 35 mins to 2 hours he will not settle back down again he's straining to poop i'm sure- least that's the noise he makes, he pokes his bottom out and really strains going red in the face, once he's pooped he's more than happy to go back to sleep after a fresh nappy is on - (and after he's had another good strain)

I've taken him to the dr's only to be told basically i'm a neurotic mother cos this is my first, there's nothing wrong with him cos he does do wet/soft poopy nappys (althou when he's not been for 12 hours they have more substance) the thing is thou the dr literally see a slight skid mark and said oh yes he's pooing fine - how would he know thta from a skid mark??? the H/V first said he was fine then said he might suffer cos my bowl movement isn't the best - I have IBS. m/w said he was fine and is a 'strainy' baby - but surely it can't be good for him to strain all the time, some tiems he's asleep and does it, sometimes he's not, inveriablly thou it will wake him up which in turn wakes me up cos he's by the bed and I sleep light.

I don't want to stop BF and switch to formula if I can help it but tbh I'm dreading everytime he crys for a feed at night, I'm sat up crying with him cos he won't go back to sleep, the DR will only say i'm depressed if I take him in to see him (which i'm not - a few hours un disturbed sleep would solve the problem there) DH keeps on to give Joey a bottle which i'm not wanting to do. Can my milk be too rich for him? also if I do make the switch and it doesn't solve the problem I will ahve stopped for nothing, and all the time i'm able to feed I wanted to, althou i'm also starting to resent the fact that i'm lucky to get 5 hours broken sleep a night on a bad night, whilst DH sleeps soundly from 3 am to about 2pm (then says I should be grateful he's helping me out then - I don't need help then I need help when he's crying and trying to settle him)

sorry it's long, and it's prob in the wrong place, but I need help sorting out this strainign problem - another thing, my m/w said give him water, the h/v said he was too young for it, and the dr said water with a tea spoon of F.Orange juice in it (I did that and it seemed to help but then stopped) althou I only tried it for about 5 days as Joey wasn't keen on the water, and neither was I in giving it as he was taking approx 4oz throughout the day which I thought was excessive.

Help am I being neurotic?

[tiktok]

Munz....it's horrible when you think your baby is in discomfort, but I can only agree with your doc: everything is fine. Your HV is talking rubbish (where do they get their ideas from? You have IBS - how does this affect your baby, pray???) and extra fluid of any sort will not help. It would help if he was constipated (because this would act directly on the stool) but he isn't....

Babies strain and make an apparent fuss about pooing - this is normal, normal, normal......if he was in pain he would cry and all he is doing is straining and pushing and squirming a bit. The sensation is strong enough to prevent him from sleeping, but nothing you say makes me think he is in any real discomfort, apart from being a bit tired maybe and wanting to get back to sleep. In fact, you say at times he actually sleeps through it. At other times, he won't settle because he wants to be with you at night and/or he has this weird feeling in his gut which he pushes to get rid of.

Unless the poos are always no more than a skid mark, there is no problem as far as I can see....if he produces normal quantities (for a baby of this age this would be at least a baby-sized fistful and often more if he has gone more than a day or so and a whole lot more if it's been a week or more) then this shows the bottom end of the gut is working just fine (no blockage). The poo is soft and normal from what you say.

He doesn't need water, he doesn't need juice, he doesn't need anything. He may take quite a while to grow out of this tendency to squirm and push - plenty of toddlers are still doing this. It's really not something to be concerned about.

Hope this helps.

[Munz]

thanks hon, I just want some sleep really! he seems to be slightly better if his arms are pinned down by his side swaddled after he's strained/sqirmed etc to put the blanket out. or if i hold him really tightly to my chest but I didn't really want to get into a habit of him only sleeping when I hold him close to me.

his poops vary from explosive - ie up his back out the sides etc to a dear little bit in the middle of the nappy. they're soft just have more substance.

tbh I did wonder if I should be giving him water but after having 3 conflicting bits of advice what do you believe?

[tiktok]

Those poos sound absolutely fine - every bf mother knows the explosive up the back 'treat' :)

Why worry about getting into a 'habit' with a baby aged just 8 weeks? It's a good habit - your baby is learning you are there for him when he needs you to soothe him and comfort him to sleep. What's wrong with that? :) In time, he won't need this quite so much and you can teach him other 'habits' which will reduce his dependence on this.

At the moment, it is fine to do whatever gives you both the chance of the rest and sleep you need. Holding your baby close is more restful for you than listening to him cry or being up and down like a yo-yo for several hours. Don't you think? :)

[lact8]

Hi Munz, i agree with all the advice thats been given so far.

Have you tried lying your little one belly down over your lap and rubbing his back gently but firmly? I do it with DD if i think poo is bothering her and she usually produces the goods, up her back, down her legs, oh the joys of motherhood!

BTW, I'm not sure if it is just coincidence that she poos, but she enjoys it and at least I feel like I'm doing something to help

[Munz]

lol, yes you are right! lol, I do worry thou we'll me making things harder for ourselves when we try to get him to sleep in his own cot if he's been used to sleeping next to me. althou he will nap during the day independantly , it's just a night time it helps to get him to sleep. (and he goes longer if he sleeps next to me on our bed b4 wanting another feed)

glad I don't need to stop feeding him - do either of u guys know, expressing, if I was to do that for each feed would the milk dry up quicker? - I've been considering expressing 2 bottles for the night feeds so DH can feed him instead of me. but I don't want to effect my supply at all.

[Munz]

lol lact - I have tried it, we normally end up with a nice burp! lol, no pooping thou! might have to keep trying that one. he seems to enjoy being winded as he nods off to sleep! lol.

[Mamapossum]

Hi Munz, my ds used to strain & go bright red in the face when pooing, and at around 8 weeks his poos spaced out to about every other day, and he was definitely happier after he'd finally squeezed one out! He's now 9 months and still goes red and grunts from time to time. I know other mums who's babies went several days without and then did huuuuuuge ones! All of this is normal. If you want to help him do the deed, my m/w showed me to lie baby on his back, hold his calves and move his knees gently up towards his chest for a minute - apparently it gives the digestive system a bit of a massage. She also said a good hot bath can help them relax everywhere and poo. But it sounds like he's more than regular - keep up with the BF you're doing a gr8 job. Is there anyone who could watch him for a bit to give you a break / nap? I know it's knackering.

PS Any luck with the Mum and Toddler group? I bet they'd bloody love a good chat about baby poo, it's one of mums' favourite topics ime!!

[MissChief]

I expressed in the early weeks so that dh could give him 1 bottle at night time - it's not entirely helpful though as you'll probably find you have to express when you'd normally feed! We therefore had the strange situation of me expressing in 1 room in the middle of the night with dh feeding the baby a bottle (of last night's ebm) in the other. It worked for us though as i'm a light sleeper and knowing that dh was "on duty" for 1 night feed (he'd just wake me up with a pump/bottle as he went in to feed) meant I got much more sleep - expressing/giving bottle took much less time than bfing.

[tiktok]

If you go all night without feeding, Munz (whether or not the baby is fed with ebm or not), two things will happen

1. You will be very uncomfortable in the morning
   

1. Longer term, you will affect your supply adversely
   

You also risk mastitis as a result of (1).

As an occasional 'break' and to try it, expressing for the baby to have at night will not do more than (1). But routinely, (2) will happen, unless you have a very robust milk supply. Later on, you may be able to do this, as bf will be very well-established, though (1) will still happen.

I do suggest you don't worry about what might happen later when you move him to a cot. You can deal with that when it happens. At present, you need as much rest and sleep as you can get :)

[SoupDragon]

Breastfed DSs pooed after every feed. DD tends to be a one a day girl. Sometimes every other day and then it's everywhere! All 3 used to strain terribly in order to go.

[bramblina]

I really don't think your milk can be too rich for your baby- your body made the baby so I would have thought it would make milk accordingly! Your body is very clever. If you don't want to give up breastfeeding- don't- you are doing so well it will sort itself out soon, your supply may not really be totally established anyway. From what I've gathered so far (my ds is 8m) expressing is not as effective as the baby actually feeding,so yes, it may affect your supply this early on. " bottles is quite a lot to be expressing this early on.
In response to what the hv said about your IBS- does she mean your lo may have something similar too, therefore his habits will seem slightly different to the majority of babies- rather than the fact that you have IBS affecting your baby directly? IYSWIM
My ds pooped just about every day until the day of his first injections- that night he slept 13 hours and didn't poo for a week. He slept the same for 3 nights, which consequently got him in to a great habit, and the poos stayed weekly till he started solids at 5m, so IME their habits can change very quickly, so I would advise you hang on in there and it can only get better. HTH
Plus, the breastfeeding really is worth it.

[matnanplus]

The baby i am caring for at the moment can strain and i leave a open nappy under her and wipe her bottom front to back with warm wet cotton wool and she either

[a] 'goes' with horizontal F1 pace or

[b] the straining stops after a 'pea' has been passed.

[a] caught me out the first time and as a result double bed, me, change mat and carpet all needed attention

With some babies i have gently bicycled their legs and had results, also rubbing her tummy in a circle.

Re The expressing:

The mummy here expresses thru the day about 30 mins after the feed on the breast baby fed at and i give EBM at night 11pm-6am and mum double expresses when needed at night usually at bed 9.30-10pm and ~4am

[tiktok]

Just to add: bramblina is right, milk cannot be 'too rich' for a baby. If by 'too rich' you mean 'too much cream' then that just cannot happen. You make the milk that is right for your baby and the cream content differs according to how much milk there is in the breast at any one time. The baby regulates his cream intake very well without any help :)

It's not the expressing that decreases the supply - though expressing can be less effectve than feeding - it's the gap between stimulation of the supply that is not good . An all-night gap is not physiological at this early stage and the body responds accordingly.

[bramblina]

TBH, IMO formula is more likely to make this problem worse as you could never get the amounts exact- the slightest difference in the scoop of powder, or a slightly less amount of water in the bottle would really not be good for the lo's digestive system, esp. at 8 wks, that's why I'm personally so against bottle feeding, it's just not natural, breastmilk is, and you are doing the right thing.
Thanks, tiktok, btw!

[Mamapossum]

Don't want to put pressure on you re:bf Munz - so this is not intended to - but agree with branblina that formula could complicate things even more. ALso formula poo tends to be firmer than bf babies' poo. And doesn't smell as nice (I think it smells nice, anyway!! Much nicer than the meaty solids nappies yukkety yuk (gags)

[CorrieDale]

I think the other thing to bear in mind is that this period if often the worst, sleep-wise! DS at 8-9 weeks would feed for an hour, sleep for two and then be back feeding again. I could never express enough to make a bottle a viable option because DS fed practically all the time. But after another couple of weeks it started to get better, and by 12 weeks was much better. So you're nearly through the really really tough bit and when you're looking back at this time, it will just fade into rose-tinted memories of your LO sleeping sweetly in your arms, with little milky dribbles seeping out of the corner of his mouth. Lovely lovely memories...

[Munz]

mama - yes thanks, I found a local mum who i'm meeting for coffee and she's given me theaddresses of loads of mother/baby groups - althou all are term time so have to wait another week.

ticktoc - well I don't want to get that, i've had it once - it wasn't nice! perhaps the idea of expressing whilst DH is feeding might be an idea as we're both normally up anyways, as u say expressing the smae amount of feed only take 25 mins as opposed to anything up to 1.5 hours! althou DH likes to talk/play with Joey during his night time feeds. perhaps we can try it over this coming w/e and see how we go - it's worht a try?

thanks for the tips bram - Joey's jabs are on tues i'm dreading him having them tbh, yesterday he got hyserical and it took a while to calm him - we both ended up in tears, I think I might sit in the waitng room whilst DH take him in for that bit - althou when he's like that all he seems to want is a cuddle from mummy! as u say it can only get better - she hopes! lol.

mat - thanks hon, will try that tip - the bathing thing does help him to go, althou again do I really want to get him all undressed for the bath every time he starts to strain? - lol@ being caught out, yes we've had that as well - except he was a little too close to the wall - urghh! lol.

with the ritchness thing, I was more thinging the amount of choclate I eat! lol - in relation to the fruit/veggies! - could choccy be making it too rich etc?? althou as I understand my body gives him the good stuff I eat and leaves me with the crap! lol - v nice!

I'm going to keep on with the BF, as I say I really don't want to stop doing it I enjoy it tbh, (except when he starts pulling at it, hopefully one day he'll work out my nipple is attatched!) lol. he feeds between 6.30 and 8.30 for a feed before bedtime (it takes an hour) then he normally wakes 1-3 dep on his first feed. so perhaps if I express then and DH feeds a bottle then I'll be ready in the morning? (still keeping the supply/timing there isn't it?)

thanks guys, you've really helped put my mind at rest and given me some good ideas, ooh and mum recons that drinking mokassins/guiness helped us to sleep better? - not sure if it will work, hopefully he'll settle down again (we had one thru the night from 11.30 - 6am and I got excited! lol) guess we'll stick with it, and remember when he's 13 weeks we're off on holiday so it'sd something to work towards! lol.

[marytee]

Just to say that DD was an awful sleeper at this age - it does get better, alhough i think she still wakes when she does a poo, often in the early hours of the morning. At about 10 weeks she found her thumb, which meant that she was able to settle herself somethimes. As tiktok says, try not to worry about 'habits' and all that - although saying that i would encourage DH not to talk and play in the night - a few loving words and gentle strokes is fine, but not a good time for play time!.

[tiktok]

Munz - chocolate in your diet will not make your milk 'too rich' and nor will fruit and veg....that's not how it works! The richness ie the amount of fat in the milk is not determined by the mother's diet in any way.

[3catstoo]

Baby yoga is great for constipation in babies. My DD2 was breastfed but seemed to really suffer. I bought a baby yoga video in the end. Only about 2 moves helped but it was worth it.
I'll try to explain the best move....
Lie baby on the floor/bed/lap, bend their legs so that the knees come over the tummy. Hold the kness and push down and rotate at the same time. So you are massaging the lower tummy area with the knee/thigh. Go in an outward motion doing each knee at the same time. A bit like doing 'froggy legs' for swimming, only bending the knes more. The feet should be by the bum.
It is easy to do but not so easy to explain.
Doesn't hurt and will usually make them poo within half an hour or expell any uncomfortable wind.
Hope that helps and hope it makes sense.
I did this ever morning and it really helped with the colic too.

[Munz]

3 cat - what was the name of the DVD? i'll see if IO can get it for Joey, i'd rather use yoga then keep on giving him the infacol if I can.

tic - I didn't realise that about the richness of the milk, I thought it was what I ate was in effect going to my milk, hence why some things go straight thru him and others don't? (good to hear I can keep eating my choccy! lol) he's putting on on ave 9oz p/w so I know it's good stuff, just was worried about the concentration so to speak. but if not that's good.

this feeding lark, it's all worry! lol.

[MissChief]

it's sounds like you're doing fine, Munz. Trust yourself and your instinct re your baby!

[bramblina]

Munz, mocassins are shoes! LOL! Do you mean molasses? Or Mackeson? That's Stout, yes it really is good for production, probably good for quality, too. Worth a try!

[Munz]

lol, yes the stout - u know what I mean! lol, I did try it yesterday - OMG how do ppl drink that stuff? it's minging! lol. DH gave Joey a bottle at 3.30am whilst I sat and expressed. he was asleep within 45 mins, from the start. so we'll see how it goes.