Anyone got any experience with supplementers?

[r3dh3d]

Pretty much what the title says, really.

DD2 is 7 weeks old. We had a pretty terrible time with bf to start with - totally trashed nipples and dehydration so were on formula for the first week or two and then had a struggle getting back to the boob. Things have settled down a bit, I'm mixed feeding atm - putting DD2 on the boob, then formula "top ups". We have 8-10 feeds a day, a couple of which may be boob-only "snacks". But she's getting far, far too much formula and not enough boob because (I think) she has nipple confusion, or rather is too lazy to get at the hindmilk and just spits the nipple out when she's had the foremilk and refuses to go back on. My cunning plan had been to reduce the amount of formula gradually in the hope she spends longer on the boob - but she's having none of it.

I've tried various things to increase supply (fenugreek, switch feeding, expressing, etc etc) but a) I'm not sure that's the main problem and b) the real obvious stuff - like a babymoon/feedathon is out of the question because DD1 is Special Needs and takes a lot of time and also (having pretty dire Epilepsy that is related to her sleep patterns) must not be woken continually by a screaming baby or could end up in hospital again.

So - I've read about supplementers - which may be the way to go to "retrain" DD2 over a period without hysterics. Has anyone used these, did they work, and where did you get hold of them from cos I can't see any suppliers online?

Thanks all!

[LucyJu]

I don't know too much about this topic, but I did come across a supplemental nursing system by medela by chance the other day. Try looking at the medela website. This is one uk stockist I found.

[BBWBabeLisa]

I bought one this week from the link mentioned above and I have to say I've found it near impossible to use. My problem is DD just won't latch on, whiich despite regular expressing has caused my supply to dwindle to a dribble. I had hoped the supplementer might tempt her to latch on but I just found it fiddly and it made it even more difficult to try and get her to latch on coz I wasn't just trying to get the nipple in her mouth but also the tube.

[Candiemom]

I tried this. I got the one from medela and it came in a day or two. It isn't expensive.

There are several minuses related to it's ease of use: it is fiddly and leaks and you have to wear it all the time, going through tape, etc. Also you have to be sure it stays in baby's mouth and on a certain position on your nipple.

However, if you did perfect the technique, I think it would work pretty well. You would have to be committed for at least a few days to get going and learn trial by error but in the end it would be worth it. It didn't work for me but nothing did.

[yomellamoHelly]

Have you thought about changing the type of bottle you use? I read somewhere (when my ds was newborn) that they get confused because the sucking sensation is competely different between breast and bottle. The article suggested that vented bottles were the way to successfully mix-feed because the baby still has to work to get his feed. I used Brown's bottles and thought they were great.

Otherwise is there any way you could work it out with your dp to stay in bed with dd2 for one or two days and let her feed as and when to boost your milk supply? I did this with ds to cut back on the amount of formula he needed and also whenever he went through a growth spurt and his requirements increased.

Good luck!

[BBWBabeLisa]

Not getting on with mine at all, have tried it a couple of times and I think it would be really useful if baby was able to latch and the problem was just supply but when you can't get baby to latch in the first place I think it just makes it harder.
If anyone wants to buy one mine's up for grabs. I paid over £23 inc next day postage and would sell it for £10 plus postage cost. Still got the box/instructions etc and only been used a couple of times.

[NotQuiteCockney]

r3dh3d:

Any chance of you getting help with DD1, from anyone, so you can do the babymoon thing?

And I'd be cosleeping with your DD2 so she can feed when she wants. (Does your DD1 have a white noise machine or similar? I find these really help keep my boys from being disturbed by random noises, like fireworks etc.)

How is her weight gain? How much formula is she getting per day, on average?

How long does she feed before she spits the boob out? Is she unhappy when she does this, and needs a bottle to settle, or is she ok?

Foremilk and hindmilk aren't really different things. Some babies can do fine with just five minutes per feed (my DS2 did).

Also, obviously, I think you should try to see a BFC to get your latch checked.

BBWBabeLisa: Have you seen a BFC? They may be able to help you get the latch working, and have tricks to sort it out. I've heard that just giving the baby lots of skin to skin and chances to latch (rather than specifically trying to put baby to breast, iyswim) can help ...

[r3dh3d]

Hi all - sorry to abandon this thread for a couple of days. Thanks for the suggestions. Let me see...

Yomella:
We're on Dr Browns' already. They are very good. But the problem isn't that she rejects the boob as such - she'll chomp away very happily for a bit, then when the flow slows down she spits it out again.

NQC:
Babymoon thing is difficult. We can't do the white noise machine because we are on 24/7 listening watch for DD1 having a bad seizure - we still sleep with her baby monitor in our room. I think realistically we could only do a babymoon by me and DD2 going away for a weekend which would be tricky atm.

Weight gain is fine. Well, no, more than fine. She's 91st centile and - to phrase it nicely - bonny. I guess she's getting 8 feeds a day now and on the average feed she'll get about 100mls formula after snacking on both boobs, though usually one night feed is boob only.

She'll feed for 3-4 mins a side before spitting the nipple out. If you put her back on, mostly she'll spit it out again and scream the house down until she gets a bottle. Sometimes she'll chomp for a few seconds whilst complaining bitterly (making "Rottweiler" growly noises with her mouth full) before screaming, sometimes she'll fall briefly asleep before screaming. But generally, no bottle => screaming is about the size of it. It's another reason I'm not sure about the babymoon thing - she's a very hungry young lady and I think if I put her on short commons for an entire weekend, she'd probably pop her clogs simply through pent-up rage.

I'll try to get back to a BFC but have seen them before and they all said latch is fine. And we're approaching 9 weeks and I can still express about 70mls so presumably she's getting enough out to keep supply going.

BBWBL:
I'm sorry the supplementer didn't work out for you . I might CAT you about buying it, then!

[NotQuiteCockney]

A white noise machine works fine with a monitor - we have white noise machines, and monitors, in both boys' rooms, and we still hear them fine if they shout. I don't know what sort of noise would indicate a seizure, though - if it's quite subtle then, no, a white noise machine won't work for you. (Are you cosleeping with DD2? She might feed for longer, and more patiently, if she was still mostly asleep while feeding?)

100 ml per feed and 7 feeds per day means (I think) that your baby is mostly just getting formula. Are you having letdown when she latches on? Can you hear swallowing noises?

Certainly, you can't go from 700ml of formula per day to none, all at a go. That wouldn't be good for either of you.

Things I would recommend, if you want to reduce the formula:

• express more, try to make more of that 100ml be breastmilk, and less formula.
  
• let her feed as often as she likes, for as long as she likes.
  
• let her sleep with you, and feed lots in the night if possible. Particularly as one of the night feeds is just boob, and also because night feeds increase your production more.
  
  I'd talk to a BFC about this pulling off after 3-4 minutes, see if you can get one to see it and try to work out what's happening there. (tiktok may have ideas if she's about?) Can you offer the other side when she does this? Maybe switch back and forth a couple times, then offer a bottle?

[r3dh3d]

Well, if I have to miss a boob feed, she'll usually take about 180-200mls formula a feed. We definitely have letdown because my letdown is quite uncomfortable. (we were getting oversupply problems a couple of weeks ago) My gut feel is it's about 50/50 over the course of the day now, which is better than it was. I'm always offering both sides at each feed and she cheerfully does her 3 mins on each before demanding a bottle.

I am a little confused about the practicalities of cosleeping - its one of the things I haven't tried because I can't quite work it out - is it the sort of thing there are loads of threads about?

[NotQuiteCockney]

There have been a few, yeah. I haven't got time to check, but I bet kellymom has some good resources on it.

It does sound like she's getting 50/50, as you say. And you don't want to try to switch to 100/0 all of a sudden, as that would be hard for you both. But you can certainly take baby steps towards 100/0.

How did you know you had oversupply issues a few weeks back? Was she not feeding enough then, because of nipple issues?

[r3dh3d]

I've read the Kellymom pages now - lots of good stuff in there without anything that answers my specific questions! They seem to assume that you will be in a double bed against the wall and put bubs between you and the wall - what if you're in a bed in the middle of the room? Where does bubs go then? DD is in a grobag - presumably then she goes outside the covers? Do most people sleep without pillows? If not, where do you put bubs? Too far up, they can get stuck under the pillow. Too far down, they can get stuck under the bedclothes. It all just seems such a minefield. And I'm not sure the benefit is huge at this age - if DD were old enough to make some moves towards me if she were hungry it would be different, but at the moment she's in a hammock right next to me and I think I'm as likely to wake up and bung her on as I would be if she were in the same bed. Does it really make a difference?

I'm not sure if it was oversupply a few weeks ago, or just fast letdown. DD was OK till letdown started, then pulling off and coughing and choking a lot, and I was getting moderately wet and swearing. I couldn't really get her back on till the initial rush had subsided, then she was OK.

BBWBL - I've tried to CAT you about buying this supplementer but your profile doesn't allow CAT. Do you want to change it and I'll try again?

[NotQuiteCockney]

It might not do that much, if your DD2 is right next to you. I always found it easier to bf with the baby in bed next to me, more restfull for me and the baby. But it doesn't always work as well for everyone.

I would have the baby under the duvet, either between me and DH, or on the outside (with a breastfeeding cushion between baby and the edge). I know you're not meant to put a baby under the duvet, but I always made sure the baby was wearing no clothes, or very little anyway.

With a grobag, I think most people put the baby on top of the covers. The baby is generally lower than the pillows, so they aren't an issue.

[BBWBabeLisa]

hiya
I'm not sure how to change it on my profile! There doesnt seem to be an option to do that when I go into my profile. Any advice would be appreciated.

[BBWBabeLisa]

Just figured it out!! Should be contactable now.
Lis x