Lip tie...

(20 Posts)
ag123 Fri 20-Apr-12 14:07:36

This is just out of interest rather than there being a problem really, but do all babies have some degree of lip tie? When I look into my ds's mouth I can see quite a big flap of skin between his top lip and upper gum and I was just wondering if this is normal..? Whilst he feeds well and puts on weight very well we have never had a good latch (I did write a previous post about this and got some very helpful advice to stop worrying, which I do try to do!). I'm pretty sure it's too shallow (I get quite a lot if blanching but it's never painful) and interestingly he sometimes really struggles when I try and give him the odd bottle of ebm-it's as though he can't make the vacuum properly. Anyway I was wondering if any of that could be due to an upper lip tie and if so is it anything to worry about?

MigGril Fri 20-Apr-12 16:16:25

Uper lip tie often goes hand in hand with a tounge tie. Has he been checked for tounge tie, it mite not be easy to spot as possier one's are not ovouse.

shallow latch mean's he's not getting enough breast tissue in his mouth, I think this would more likely be caused by a tounge tie rather then lip tie but I'm not expert in this just have personal experance. Getting it check by someone like milk matters mite be a good idea.

If he's feeding ok and gaining weight well the the other implications are longer term dentail issues (can cause open gape which may need dental correction latter on). But the NHS woun't do anything unless there is a current feeding issue.

ag123 Fri 20-Apr-12 21:58:04

Do you mean open gape like if you suck your thumb or use a dummy for too long?

MigGril Sat 21-Apr-12 06:53:34

Yes it can lead to an open gape. Which may or maynot need dentail correction latter on.

I can see one in DS now but the gap between his top teeth have gotten less since the rest of his teeth have come in and may get better yet when he has all his teeth. He's only 17months so still time for things to move around yet. He's never had a dummy or sucked his thumb so it's not cause by anything else.

Has he been checked for touge tie?

splashingaround Sat 21-Apr-12 08:19:19

Lots of babies have them, they can make latches less effective but rarely in the way a tt can. If yours is likely to cause problems as soon as you start to flange the top lip the connecting tissue will blanch bright white and look under pressure.

Get it checked by your local BFC ABM, NCT, LLL or by staff at a Baby Cafe to see the latch thus avoiding the cost of Milk Matters. There are many of the above excellent in their knowledge and experience of tt and lip ties. Speak to your dentist for the dental implications, they are usually considered an entirely normal presentation by dentists especially in the UK.

BertieBotts Sat 21-Apr-12 08:33:54

It does sound like he might have one - see this blog post - it has pictures.

http://thefunnyshapedwoman.blogspot.co.uk/2011/03/introducing-maxillary-labial-frenulum.html

If the latch is comfortable, it may be you don't need to worry. However, if the tie comes right down to the top of the gums, it requires more careful tooth-brushing, as just going straight across will miss the very top part of the middle top two teeth.

It's also worth being aware that boys who have this have a higher chance of an adhesion on the penis, which, while harmless, can cause a bit of blood (known as "snapping the banjo") when he gets to his early teens and starts experimenting more, er, vigorously. It might be worth getting his dad to just mention this to him when he gets to that age just so he doesn't worry he has broken something!

A friend of mine's DS has the lip tie as well as a tongue tie and she struggled a lot with his latch until it was corrected, even now her baby can't latch 100% correctly, but it's a lot more comfortable for her. He couldn't physically feed from a bottle, either.

BertieBotts Sat 21-Apr-12 08:34:08
MigGril Sat 21-Apr-12 09:33:14

It's deffantly worth getting the lach checked by your local bf cafe. But the reasion why I menationed milk matters as if it is a possiter TT then they probably wouldn't be able to spot one (I don't think any of our helps or supporters would I certainly wouldn't) we're also not trained to diagnose anything like this it needs to be a specalist peadtrition or a private lactation consultant who's trained in this area.

I also couldn't say wearther you needed to have anything done about it, it's quit a complicated subject really.

ag123 Sat 21-Apr-12 13:15:00

Wow what a good article BertieBotts thank you so much. Really informative. And I'm pretty sure from the pictures that he does have the more severe type which extends back into the hard palate. Doesn't sound like they're keen on doing anything about it generally but it's good to have a reason to explain the shallow latch. Maybe we'll go back to one of the groups that we spent so much time at at the beginning where I know they usually have a proper lactation consultant to get it confirmed.

ardenbird Sat 28-Apr-12 18:09:50

How's it going ag123? Did you get it confirmed? Any sign of posterior tongue tie?

I think my baby has this too - and looking in the mirror, so do I! Thus my childhood gap between my front teeth explained (fixed with orthodontics). If fixing this would lower chances of needing braces, I'd be interested in doing so, even if private.

I'm also curious - I've seen lip tie mentioned as related to high arched palate and small upper jaw, but I can't tell if this is a consequence of the also related posterior tongue tie or of the lip tie alone? Does anyone know?

I ask because I also had this - requiring what seemed better placed as a medieval torture device to widen my upper jaw to make room for all my teeth (I had baby teeth pulled, but it only delayed the issue when my adult teeth came in high in the gums above already present teeth) and maintain my ability to chew. If this is genetic and there is a chance my DD has it, I'd really like to pursue fixing whatever caused it (lip or tongue tie), as I don't want to have to crank open DD's jaw like my Mum did mine! They say she doesn't have tongue tie, but only one person looked and I understand posterior tongue tie is hard to spot?

fapl Sun 29-Apr-12 11:14:36

BertieBotts Very interesting info re 'snapping the banjo'. My ds has a posterior tongue tie and lip tie, which I know is a midline fault, and always thought the line down his scrotum is much more pronounced than on his brother, will definitely remember to mention to OH. I guess this means that once it is 'snapped' it is no longer a problem, like cutting a tongue tie? (ouch!)

BertieBotts Sun 29-Apr-12 11:27:21

I don't think that it poses a problem anyway, and I do remember one of my first boyfriends mentioning it in a conversation about "it's unfair how girls bleed when they lose their virginity!" type thing. He said that some boys can "snap the banjo" and this bleeds. So it may be covered in sex education when they separate the boys and girls.

BertieBotts Sun 29-Apr-12 11:34:51

But yes, I think it can only happen once.

I always wonder if I had a mild tongue tie because I ripped my tongue frenulum as a teenager during a particularly, um, vigorous kiss blush

ag123 Sun 29-Apr-12 16:07:41

Hi everyone
I did actually take him to a group and happened to be seen by the infant feeding coordinator for the area. She didn't think it looked like his lip should be a problem but she felt inside his mouth and said he does have a tongue tie. As he can stick out his tongue i never thought that would be the issue...does that mean a posterior TT? (I can't remember what she said now!) Anyway she said that his shallow latch is probably to compensate for my forceful let-down so if I were to do anything about the TT then it would make him a more efficient feeder, leading to more problems trying to control the flow. He seems to have just found a way to feed that works for him and as I said before as the weight gain is good and I don't have pain anymore I guess that's ok. I do still wish we could have the lovely relaxed feeding sessions that I thought bf was going to be all about though, without the coughing and spluttering, constant off and on and actual choking! I guess it explains all the problems we had at the beginning though!

ag123 Mon 30-Apr-12 18:51:25

Oh also, are there any other implications for the TT (realise I should piss start a new thread for this...)

ag123 Mon 30-Apr-12 18:52:26

Poss not piss obviously blush

KafCurt Tue 22-Jan-13 07:59:24

Please can everyone read, sign and share with others our petition to get Lip Tie checked at birth: http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/44390.
To follow our campaign please like us on facebook at: www.facebook.com/LipTieSupportGroup

Thanks!

CheungFun Tue 22-Jan-13 08:12:47

My DS definitely has this and has caused a gap between his middle top two teeth. Although it's too late now at a year old, would this have contributed to us not managing to breastfeed? I know I definitely made some mistakes in the whole thing with not offering enough and he slept a lot the first two weeks (normal newborn sleepiness I think and he did have jaundice but not enough to warrant any treatment). I didn't express often enough either as I couldn't keep up with it!

knightlydia Tue 08-Jul-14 15:18:47

hiya, know this is an old thread but.... I had my sons lip tie divided by laser, he's 4 months old - and our breastfeeding has completely changed. Its fab. It was so hard to find info on this so wanted to let people know - this was my dentist who did it, im lucky enough to live close to where he is in north london but apparently people travel from all over the uk as only 2 people do it! Hope useful for someone www.drlevinkind.com/

feeona123 Tue 08-Jul-14 21:27:28

Thanks!

My LO had her TT sniped at 5 weeks, lip tie wasn't checked for then. I have since noticed the lip tie but HV's hadn't even heard of it when I mentioned it to them!

Can I ask how much it cost?

We're they on much pain afterwards?

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