Mumsnet Talk

As briefly as I can....

DD4 is 9mo. BF and co-slept from birth. Currently settles in her cot around 7 (always falls asleep on boob unless in sling), sleeps for 2-3 hours then comes to bed with me. Feeds at that point, and then a further 3-6 times through the night till she wakes for the day usually around 5.

I have PND now, and right now it is severe and the HCPs looking after me are struggling to get it improving. Exhaustion is playing an enormous part in this. Today we have had to call the Crisis Team Whilst DH is home over the weekend they want me to take a fairly major dose of something and get ONE nights sleep. We are quite close to admission, and as there is no MBU within 150 miles I need to think about doing this.

But I am so stressed about what it will be like for DD4 . She will be with DH all night (who has never settled her to sleep), and I am no longer averse to her being given formula - but she has never had a bottle. She is the major thing keeping me going right now, so the prospect of doing something that will cause her hours and hours of distress is tearing me in two.

What will it be like for her? Will she settle OK? Or is this going to break her tiny heart ?

And how can I night wean her at 9mo gently?

Didn't want to read and run. I have no idea how to help but I think I'm about 1 month behind you so I'll be watching the thread to see if anyone has any good ideas.

If it's any comfort, with DD1 I had to go into hospital overnight in an emergency when she was 10mo (also bf to sleep and all through the night, never had a bottle). I didn't see her for 24 hours. Apparently she was a bit unhappy going to sleep at the start but during the night she settled quite quickly with a cuddle from DH. She didn't take any of the formula but did eat more normal food than usual and had lots of juice to drink.

Sorry, don't know what I'm trying to say except we both got through it and although it was pretty horrible at the time, the beautiful nearly 3 year old girl opposite me having a tea party with her dolls doesn't seem fussed by it!

I hope this weekend goes ok for you.

Wow sounds like you're having a really tough time just now. Your DD will be absolutely fine. Any time I left my two with dp when they were that kind of age (or even now with my 18mo who reverts to being a 3mo at bedtime!) they have just dealt with it. Yes there might be a bit of crying where there would usually be none but your DD will be with her dad. they will muddle through between them and make do with what they have (cuddles, mostly!) you're not doing anything terrible to her, far from it! You're giving her a mum who has had a decent nights sleep and will be a bit more able to deal with the world than she is now. Good luck and I hope you're feeling much better very soon.

Agree with the others. Your health is important too, and although there probably will be a few tears from your DD, I'm sure she will be alright for one night with her daddy. Sounds like that one nights sleep is pretty important and I'm sorry you are going through this. Hope the weekend goes OK.

9 months is very different from a tiny baby, she will be just fine with her dad - and I say that from the point of view of a BFer of a 10 month old.

I had PND after my first son, and while it was nowhere near as bad as yours sounds one thing it taught me is that children and babies need a well mum.

Hang in there, you will get better.

You may find that she would take a cup better than a bottle- just an idea.

Here is an article from Dr Jay Gordon about gentle night weaning. He does say that it shouldn't be used on children under 1 year old, except in the case of an emergency with the Mum's health. It may be useful for when you decide to night wean.

I really hope things get better for you soon- sounds like things have reached breaking point.

When DS was 10/11mo DH sent me to the spare room for the night, so I could catch up on some sleep. DS would take a bottle, but while he woke up his usual couple of times, the first time he refused any milk at all, and the second time he took less than an oz. He did grumble a bit the first waking, but never got distressed, and the second time was no issue at all. So I guess what I'm saying is try not to worry, she really might be absolutely fine. Having said that, if she hasn't had a bottle before, is it worth DH trying with a cup (or at least having both options to hand), as she'll be more familiar with that?

Hope you get some rest and are better soon.

Thank you, all of you. Definitely given me hope that it won't be awful for her. Or DH.

crikeybadger thank you for the link. Do you think it would work OK even though she is still three months younger than he talks about as a minimum? Will her understanding and attachment be strong enough to take it? And although she has some food, she doesn't really eat loads - if we go down the night weaning route (which I think we are going to have to ) will she still be getting enough milk? She feeds a lot through the day but does get distracted. Plus of course I am very busy, so dark and quiet rooms are often totally impractical.

Haven't quite decided yet. Crisis team sadly didn't really get how important BF is to me but my HV was here too and she really does so was able to be supportive. She thinks it would be a sensible thing to do at this point.

Can't believe it has come to this

I really don't know about the attachment and understanding thing, i expect it varies from child to child.

I guess under normal circumstances, you could wait a few more months (I think there is a sleep regression around about now which may be causing things to be so bad).

But- this is clearly not normal circumstances and only you know how you are feeling right now.

I suppose if you managed to reduce some of the wakings then that would be a good start.

It's good that your HV is on board so I really hope you can work out a good solution to this.

I wouldn't worry about it affecting her attachment tbh (and I'm a total lentil-weaver!) shes going to be with her dad so think of it as a good thing for their relationship. They'll muddle through together. Give them lots of options for milk, bottle, cup, spoon and anything else you think she might take milk from. Make sure he's got Dd's absolute favourite food for breakfast (doesn't have to be breakfasty!). You'll probably find that she eats lots or feeds lots (or both) the next day. And try and fill her up as much as poss the day before as well.

I really feel for you but it sounds like you've got your dh and hv fighting your corner. Bf is important, I know its a huge part of how I parent my babies/toddlers, but your health is so important too and your DD needs you to get better and if that means she stops having milk at night sooner than she might have liked then she'll deal with it with help from her dad. It will pay off in the long run. For all of you.

I don't have any advice, but, if you have namechanged, I think I know who you are from (from my postnatal thread) from your description of the situation. I just wanted to say how sorry I am that it has got so bad and come to this point.
I think that although it might be hard initially for all of you, she will be ok with her dad. I also agree with Redkite that she might be better with the formula in her cup than trying to get her drinking from a bottle for the first time at this point. I go back to work in just over a week and will be doing my first nightshift in about 3 weeks, so I am hoping/ assuming that my DD, who usually feeds to sleep and wakes at night to feed, will manage without me. I wish it didn't have to happen and that I could be there for her every night like she is used to, but I can't change the situation. For very different reasons you also can't be feeding your baby as much as she wants every night and have to assume she will be ok. I expect your DD and mine will probably make up for it as much as possible during the next day either eating more and/ or feeding more.
It will be hard but it will be ok for her, and you need to do what you can to get better for your sake, her sake and all your family.
Take care. Am thinking of you.

Oh, poor you. It sounds terribly difficult.

The only thing I can add is that there is a world of difference between a baby crying in the arms of her father and a baby 'being left to cry'. In the former situation, she may be upset for a bit and finding it hard to settle, but she is being comforted and loved. I am sure there is research that there is a difference in the reaction in the brains between the two (perhaps in the book Why Love Matters??).

They wil be fine, and they will muddle through. My DD2 is 8 months and very similar. Does your DH know how to tie the sling? It might be a knackering night for him, but I'm betting some pacing in the sling would be a good tool for him to settle her. The one time we left DD2 with the grandparents for the evening that's what they had to do.

Do you have someone who can look after the other DC the following day (or some of them) so that your DH can also sleep at the same time as DD4 the next day?

And who knows, maybe after a night or two she will be happy to settle for him. If she can settle for him, it may well make a gentle permanent night weaning easier.

Good luck.

I'm really sorry things are so hard just now. I completely agree that you need to do your best to focus on getting yourself a bit better, that's what will be best in the longer run for baby too.
Now, I'm not suggesting you do this as I know it's not for everyone and depends on baby, but I actually went 'cold turkey' on night feeds with my DD when she was just under 8 months. She had gone from longer stretches of sleep overnight to waking 3 hourly and was feeding well during the day. My instinct was that she didn't 'need' the night feeds. So one night I fed her at bedtime then 11pm as usual then no feeds til at least 6 am. I would cuddle/rock/take her into bed - basically anything but feed. The reason I'm saying all this is simply to say that it wasn't nearly as bad as I expected. She had a bit of a grumpy cry - not distressed - for about an hour and a bit (being cuddled) then settled down. I also agree with the above that it will be bonding time with daddy and it is nothing at all like leaving her to cry - baby has one of her loving parents there to cuddle her all night.
I'm not saying that it will be easy, just that hopefully it won't be as bad as you think!
Hope it goes smoothly for you - you sound like a great mum!

Good luck this weekend.
I do hope you are having your full night's sleep somewhere conducive to sleep.
Dont just go into the spare room if you can hear her cry.
Go to a hotel or your mums if possible.
I did this when dd was 10months - I had a chest infection which I could not get over so I decamped for 2 nights (came home first thing in the morning then back to hotel after dinner) and it was the making of me.
I never knew how much she cried. I only knew that she not only got over it but that she had the healthy happy mummy she deserved.

Please please mind yourself
The attachment is strong enough to withstand much much more than this separation.
She wont even really be hungry if truth be told, she will just be a bit miffed and out of sorts.
DH can offer a beaker or bottle or can syringe water/milk into her mouth if she really refuses.

Sleep is precious mediciine. Take it.

Hi Op, not able to read whole thread but wanted to say I have 11.5 mo, ebf, co slept every single night from birth, literally never apart. Had to leave him with DH for 10 hrs without me, he was fine. Had lots of liquids from cup, ate solids. Right now it sounds as if your health has become the priority. Holding your hand,it will be ok.

OP I have been there with pnd and exhaustion. If you decide not to or it doesn't work, what I find helps here is I co-sleep and then once he's had morning wake up feed I hand him over to dh or my mum and they do the whole changing, breakfast, playing morning and I go back to sleep and then have a long bath before being on duty again. Few days of this and I feel so much better.

If bf is important to you, they have to respect that. There is a way out of this, good luck.

It's a good job MN doesn't have me of those ghastly crying emoticons or it would get seriously over used right now! THANKYOU [thankyou]

albrecht DH does do the dawn shift at weekends already, usually taking her from 5-7:30 ish, but the best we can manage is 2 mornings owing to his work.

gingerbubs I'm so exhausted part of me would love to go cold turkey and get this over with. Just not sure I have the strength needed anyway. And thankyou - I don't feel like a great mum right now at all

sleepisforthesheep that is I think just what I need to hear. That being cuddled by her dad is OK, and is worlds apart from CIO He can use an SSC, so will make sure he has one to hand

herreigo I will be at home, but drugged up and with ear plugs. IKWYM but I can't leave her right now.

poppycat thanks for the hand holding

I'm so anxious still. But you have all really helped to calm me down enough to accept this as an OK thing to do given where things are now.

I have been in contact with the team overnight and asked them to enquire about a place in an MBU. I need to know if it is an option. And she may have to have some nights in the nursery there if we do that, which will mean being comforted by strangers Yet more anxiety for me Unfortunately something shifted yesterday evening and I am not sure how safe I am at home right now

Doh! Here for you all

I've only just read this but I wanted to send some more support. Your dd and the rest of your children need you to focus on getting well. I bf and co slept till at least a year with each child so I understand how important it becomes to you but it shouldn't come above your health. You sound like a wonderful mum so caring and focused on your little ones needs but now is the time to let others care for you

Your dd will be ok - I'm more worried about you! I'm sure that lack of sleep doesn't help so please consider the advice that you get a full night's sleep. Hope you feel better soon.

Just checking in to say hi and that I'm thinking about you and hoping today will be a bit better than yesterday x

Theres a book called the no cry sleep solution which is a good alternative to CC. This might help you partner with getting baby to sleep? Just try and bear in mind that there is a difference in leaving a baby to scream and holding and trying to comfort a screaming baby. If your partner is with baby and trying to stop her crying then this isn't the same as abandoning her. She will probably be a bit upset that you're not there, but as long as her dad is there trying to make her feel better it won't damage her.
If it doesn't work out, could you perhaps get more help in the daytime and get some naps in, instead of trying to get a full nights sleep (which can be impossible with a baby around!)
Also, as a side note, if necessary there are anti depressants that are safe to take while breastfeeding. If you feel this may be for you, ask your doctor to prescribe paroxetine.
Hope you feel better soon, it sounds like you're coping very well considering the pnd xx

Team due in an hour or so so we will talk about the practicalities then. Have just bought formula and Ella's kitchen pouches (she loves those ) for DH to have in his arsenal.

Do have NCSS but I can't read a book ATM and been on ADs for 7 weeks but crisis team doc coming on Mon to review meds anyway.

Am so bloody anxious about everything

Hope you get support and understanding Wantto.

Just remember that you can get through this and feel better again.

Hope things went well with the team Wantto. Wanted to repeat, DD4 being comforted by her dad, or even by a stranger in a nursery, is a world away from CIO. A world away.

You are a good mother. Even with this horrible illness, which is by its nature an illness which closes you down and pulls you away from people. Even with all of that, your first thoughts are with your family. Being a good mother is not about never leaving your baby to cry, or never making difficult decisions. As I'm sure you know by now with four kids, being a mother is all about the compromises, the balances, doing the best thing in the long term.

The best thing for all your kids long term is that they have the best shot at their mum getting well. That's best for them, and best for you. Torturing yourself otherwise is just so wrong .

You sound an amazing mum that even through the fog of such awful depression you can think and plan for them like this. .