Am I martyring Dd?

[Gem754]

Okay, help me here please....

I had been solely breastfeeding Dd for the first 8 weeks of her life. She never settled very well and I was forced to get a dummy to get her to sleep. I was feeding her for approx half an hour every 3 - 4 hours.

Last Tues she had her 8 week check-up and the Doctor said she was approx a pound under weight, although both her length and head circumfrance are both on track. He suggested swaping a couple of her feeds for fomula, which I have done.

Since then I've noticed how much more contented she is after these feeds. She no longer needs her dummy to get off to sleep at night, I can leave her playing in her bouncer while I get on with the housework ect... But she is very fractious after taking the breast. Yesterday I fed her for an hour, both breasts, but 2 hours later she was screaming with hunger, and this seems to be ben=coming the norm.

Am I drying up? Am I martyring Dd to the breastfeeding cause? Is there anyway I can still give her breastmilk but get her satisfied aswell?

Thanks, Gem

[edam]

Bloody docs, he was talking rubbish. No, you aren't sacrificing dd at all. She would gain weight on breastmilk. Babies weight gain varies and they develop all the time. She would have started to sleep better around now anyway, it's the sort of thing babies do - they change so much all the time!

Bloody health professionals, so many seem determined to deprive babies of the perfect food for them. The breasfed baby population is show scientifically again and again to be healthier than the bottle-fed baby population.

[beansprout]

Also, those charts are based on formula fed babies and they have a different weight gain pattern. Is there anyone who will support you with breast feeding rather than encouraging you to use more formula (which will affect your supply).

[Miaou]

Gem, your experience sounds just like mine with dd2. By 8bweeks she was solely on bottles as a result. I had no support or encouragement to breastfeed.

If you are happy to move onto bottles, then do it with a clear conscience. She has had 8 weeks of your milk, a really good start for her. But if you feel guilty/miserable about it, then give the beastfeeding one last big push. I say this because I never got over the guilty feeling that I didn't try hard enough with dd2, it still affects me 7 years on!

If you want to give it another go, I would suggest you start another thread asking for advice and support. It can be done!!!

[lullabelle]

A sated baby is a hapy baby. Don't feel pressurised into doing anything that you are unsure about - including only breastfeeding. In the beginning I had to supplement my milk with formula as my girl was a big one and extremely hungry. She would feed constantly from about six until midnight and it was 1.draining 2.hurting and 3. causing problems with my other child. I supplemented her feed with formula and it made quite a difference to my life and hers. I'm now breastfeeding her at five and a half months (which i never thought I'd get to). It didn;t affect my milk supply as she's been totally breastfed for the last three months. I'm actually more worrried about how to get her off the boob as she likes it so much. Give her what you think she needs. Don't beat youself up about it. Your happiness and peace of mind is also very very important.

[Blondeinlondon]

You can give her breastmilk and get her satified but you would need to feed her more frequently and whenever she wants it
They only have tiny tummies remember

Is she burping well after feeding?

[Gem754]

Thanks everyone.

She normally does one hugh burp Blondeinlondon, one worthy of Dh.

My Mum has suggested I feed her as normal and then give her a bottle aswell. I thnk I'll try this as I plan of giving he breastmilk until she's a year old (expressed after she gets teeth .

Thank-you for your support. She's a happy baby, just naturally tall and thin which runs in the family, and she certaintly doesn't look mal-norished. The thing is now she's had formula she doesn't seem satisfied with breast milk anymore.

[tiktok]

Gem - the doc was very unhelpful. Maybe your dd does/did need more milk - but you have the milk, in your breasts. Giving formula will reduce your supply, and you risk moving solely onto formula as the milk may disappear with the lessening of the stimulation. More feeds = more milk. Fewer feeds = less milk.

The replacement of two feeds a day with formula is especially likely to hasten this process. The unsettledness you have seen since you changed to what the doc said is a pretty sure sign this process has started.

I would be concerned about the infrequency of her breastfeeding - 3-4 hourly feeding is not enough for most young babies - and although the length of feed is less crucial, it is up to the baby to come off when finished. Many babieswould be unsettled being removed from the breast after just half an hour....

To tackle this, you need to reduce the formula and build up the breastfeeding by feeding often - as often as your dd will accept it. 3-4 hourly will not be anything like near enough, but over time, it may end up being ok.

[Miaou]

If you want to persevere Gem, you will get every support on here as you know!

The only way to build up your supply is to feed more, and more often. Is dd your only child? If so then you can really concentrate on her. Get plenty of rest, eat loads, and feed her as often as she will take it (ie not just when she asks for it!) This will get your supply going.

[NotQuiteCockney]

You can still breastfeed perfectly comfortably after they have teeth! No need to move to expressing then. I fed DS1 to 18 months, and am still feeding DS2 at 14 months now. Teeth are not a big deal.

And yes, she won't be happy with just breastmilk now, because your production will have gone down. If you want to go back to solely breastfeeding, then you can, but you'd have to feed her whenever she wanted for a bit.

[Miaou]

x-posted with tiktok - she puts it so much better than me

[Miaou]

Don't forget that when a baby feeds, its tongue comes out over the bottom teeth and the nipple is pushed back onto the roof of the mouth - a baby who is feeding can't bite.

[Gem754]

Thank-you all for your support. Am continuing to feed Dd via the breast in the main but I am topping her up with formula as it seems to settle her much better. It's just that little bit thicker, and she's a gutsy so and so.

I'm going to discuss this with HV on Monday and see what her point of vieew is. I randomally bumped into my midwife yesterday, completely randomly and mentioned it to her. She was of the opinion the Dd looked perfectly healthy and as she was producing plenty of wet and dirty nappies that there proberly wasn't anything to get too stressed about. So I won't

As for brest feeding and teeth, I see your point, but at the end of a feed now Dd sometimes clamps down. I don't fancy her suddenley doing that once her teeth come through so I'm going to wuss out and express.

[foundintranslation]

These charts are pretty grrrr-inducing. After having got ds off mixed and onto 100% at 4 weeks, I was threatened with formula again as ds was gaining weight 'slowly' - which wasn't really slowly at all. (We didn't give formula btw!) Now he is on the 3rd percentile for length but 50th for weight in relation to length. He's just small - as are I and dh.
If you feel you can stop the formula, you will prob have to stick out a period of pretty constant feeding - but after that the feeds will become, if not less frequent, soooo much quicker and you will have your life back and no hassle with bottles! Believe me - I've been there.
If they bite while feding, you can say 'no' firmly and take her off the breast, resuming the feed a moment later. Expressing may cause your supply to dwindle more quickly, as a baby is much more efficient at milk removal and hence stimulation of production.

[zebratwizzler]

i think the dummy is scuppering things; the reason they want the dummy is to stiumulate your milk supply. The time she wastes on the dummy is when she could be telling your body to make more milk. So your body is making less milk; she gets the milk out of the bottle faster, that's why she seems more settled on the bottle. The more bottles & top-ups you give her, the more you tell your body not to make so much milk in the future.

If it were me I'd ditch the dummy & the bottles both completely ... but you're free to do something else if you prefer.

[moondog]

Agree with zebra.

[alux]

before dd had teeth, she would clamp down in the fashion you describe. she has yet to clamp down in said fashion with teeth. just cross that bridge when you get there.

[NotQuiteCockney]

Expressing is much much more work than dealing with the biting problem.

The thing is, the biting hurts almost as much when they do it with gums, anyway. As she gets bigger, you can train her off biting, before she gets teeth.

But at any rate, that's all quite a way in the future. If you want to go back to just breastmilk, you can, just feed her loads.

And I know it's nice to have your baby "settled", but it's normal for them to want to be with you or on you all the time - after all, she was in you until pretty recently.

[Gem754]

Thanks everyone.

Okay you've convinced me, when the time comes I will continue breastfeeding Dd rather than expressing because of teeth.

I understand what you're saying Zebra, but the reason the dummy was introduced to begin with is from the day she was born the ONLY place Dd wanted to be was on the breast. I couldn't get to settle off me long enough to pop to the shops and I was exhausted. The moment I put her down (and I tried various combinations of wakefulness) she started to scream. She's barely used the dummy since she's had formula.

Am continuing to breastfeed, both before she gets the bottle at meal times and when she wants to snack inbetween feeds. When I start weening her I'll drop the bottle feeds and just continue on the breast. I'm less concerned with her weight gain now than how happy she is. I really do think she needs something that's that little bit more stodgy.

Take care, G

[stardoman]

Hi Gem,

I think you need to have a think about what you want to do. As many people have said in their posts, introducing formula now will have a negative effect on your milk supply, especially if you are topping up after feeds. The reason for this is that as the baby sucks, you have a surge in hormones which tells your body to produce more milk. The more the baby sucks, the more milk you produce. Also, the emptier your breasts, the more milk you produce.

Therefore, if your baby is only sucking on your breast for half an hour, every 3 hours your body is not getting many messages telling it to produce milk. As its such a long gap between feeds then your breasts will be storing milk, which reduces the speed at which milk is made. Overall this will result in you producing less milk, the top ups will become bigger until fairly quickly you may find your baby is exclusively formula fed.

If you are happy to switch to formula now then this is fine. However, you talk about breastfeeding until your baby is 1 and I think your current plan means this is very unlikely. Doctors often know little about breastfeeding. Did your mum breastfeed? Does she understand how your body decides to make milk?

The pattern you describe in your post is not at all unusual and does NOT mean you cannot satisfy your baby. The pattern you describe is NORMAL for a breastfed baby, so normal in fact it has a name. Cluster feeding. Breastfed babies do have a time of the day when they want to feed constantly and it is often
during the evening. Feeding from 6 till midnight is normal for a young baby. It is tiring, I've been there quite recently too. The thing which got me through it was thinking that eventually my baby would sleep through after having all that milk. And eventually he has.

Feeding 3-4 hourly is not enough for most breastfed babies. Feeding 2 hourly is far more usual. This does not last foreever. Your baby's tummy is tiny so needs filling frequently. As your baby grows, her tummy will grow. If you exclusively breastfeed your supply will increase and she will take more milk at each feed. Slowly her feeds will become more spaced. However, if you continue with the top ups your body will not get the messages to increase milk supply and so the top ups will get larger.

Have a think about what you want to do, as now is the time to make any changes before you are in a situation where you are solely formula feeding. If you think this is not what you want to do maybe ring one of the breastfeeding lines and talk it over.

Wishing you the best of luck.

Mandy.

[Gem754]

Thanks very much for your post Mandy. I am thinking very seriously about this.

I wish someone had mentioned cluster feeding before. I never did it according to my Mum (my little sister was ottle fed as couldn't latch)and a mid-wife in the hospital said she was "a snacker", even HV said she couldn't explain it.

There's pros and cons for going either way and I'm not sure which is best for both of us. I understand what you say about cluster feeding, but Dd's cluster feeding is for 20hours out of every 24 and I'm not sure I can face going back to that. On the other hand I really believe breast is best for her.

I'm really in 2 minds, and not sure which way to go. Will think very hard about this. Thanks all

[stardoman]

The cluster feeding does not last forever and will improve as she grows. I think at first babies often don't like being put down as they are so used to being snuggled tight inside you. This is true whether you formula feed or breastfeed.

But even at 8-10 weeks, babies start to become more interested in the world around them. They start wanting to look around more and may be happy to go under a baby gym or just to kick about on the floor.

Even before weaning starts the baby will feed less from you even though she will be taking more milk. This is a combination of a bigger tummy, being more efficient at feeding and your breasts producing the milk more efficiently. Things often improve around 8-12 weeks and this is when breastfeeding comes into its own. It could be this change in your DD was going to happen anyway and has conincided with the top-ups.

I have seen friends replace one whole feed a day with formula and also friends who top up. In some ways the replacing of a whole feed seems more sucessful with mix feeding than the topping up approach. I don't know if there has been any research into this.

It will take a few days to get your supply back up, but it can be done.

Take each day at a time. In a few months you will have a baby who is sitting up and interacting with the world and who has far more interesting things to do than feed all day.

Take care, Mandy.

[Gem754]

Thanks to everyone for your support and advice, especially Mandy.

Stopped giving Dd forula this morning and she's been feeding pretty much constantly which I expected. (She's feeding as I type. Can't do both for too long or will end up with one arm like He-man) Just come back from visiting HV and she advised the same as you guys. She has told me to take a couple of lazy days doing nothing but eating, drinking and feeding Dd in order to get my milk up. We have agreed to keep her on formula for one feed a day (before she goes to bed) so that I can get some sleep)other than that it's breastfeeding all the way.

Again thank-you all for your kind words and helping a first time mum through her first real crisis, Gem

[Miaou]

That sounds like an ideal compromise for you, Gem. Really pleased to hear that you have some RL support from your HV too. Hope it all goes well.

[Gem754]

Thanks Miaou, everybodies been so brilliant.

[foundintranslation]

Well done Gem. After a while you may find you no longer feel you need that one formula feed either. The constant feeding will stop!