sensational baby sleep plan... the biggest load of ****

[jandmmum]

by Alison Scott-Wright
In desperation to get more sleep I got this book out the library. I have never read such an anti- bf book ever. It makes BW look spot-on!
Little gems include:
(RE nighttime feeds)
if you are bfing but would like the alternative of a bottle on future you must introduce your baby to the bottle in the first few weeks or you'll be stuck with exclusive bfing.
it's best to feed from the breast at night for the first couple of weeks but by week2 or 3 you cam replace one of the night feeds with a bottle of ebm or ff.
if you are still bfing at night your baby may continue to wake more frequently because he likes the warm snuggle!
at the end of the day you might be too tired and not have enough milk
at the end of the day baby may be too tired to tale full feed from breast
as need for nighttime feeds decrease you can dilute ff -less scoops to same water
I could go on. If I read this book and didn't know any better I'm not sure if I would have started bfing let alone been able to continue. Some books should cone with a bf health warning...and I'm still no closer to getting some sleep

[theborrower]

I mix feed (mostly FF) but sounds like tripe to me! And the bit about diluting formula feeds is completetly irresponsible!

Hope you get some sleep soon :)

[JennyMorgan27]

i have diluted formula b4 but only cos my baby is constipated! if anything it will make things worse cos your baby won't be having a substantial feed so will feel hungrier sooner, i try to feed mine up as much as possible through the day so she will feel fuller for longer through the night although she does still get up 2-3 times during the night! :)

[Petsville]

Mostly tripe, but she is right about introducing a bottle (could be a bottle of EBM) in the first few weeks. We didn't do it and now have a 5-month old bottle refuser and a major headache when I go back to work at the end of this month. It's been such a problem for us that I actually wish I'd just FF'ed from the start, and it's not something anyone warns you about.

[MumNWLondon]

yes i thought very anti-bfing makes GF look very pro! however we did use some of the ideas in the book, and he was sleeping all night by 8 weeks.

However using diluted formula during a growth spurt doesn't work they just wake up sooner as they are too hungry.

[tiktok]

No one warns you, Petsville, because it is not a universal experience.

Plenty of babies have occasional bottles with a view to getting them used to a bottle at a later date, and then kick up a fuss and refuse to use them (see occasional threads on mumsnet about precisely this).

Plenty of babies have no bottles at all until the day their mother goes back to work at whatever age, and take to them with no problems.

From about five months babies who don't like bottles can manage a cup with help.

Your baby may have been just the same, even if you had intro'd bottles.

[HelenLG]

Tiktok's rght, DS used to take a bottle like a dream but since returning to ebf just before introducing solids, he now wont take a bottle without a fuss...

[Petsville]

OK, I stand corrected. But, as a serious question, what advice would Tiktok and others give to women who absolutely have to go back to work in BF-unfriendly jobs?

[jandmmum]

thanks theborrower
fair point petsville, sorry you're struggling. My pointvis though she advocates doing it in week 2 with no warning of potential problems. there are no real advantages of bf in it just loads of mostly nonsense ff advantages. there's a little bit about supply and demand but no warning that giving formula will reduce
supply. She also reckons bottle
feeding is quicker and easier at night. I'm sure those hanging around cold kitchens waiting for the kettle to boil would disagree. It just seems all about somewhat dubious benefits of ff with no disadvantages and shows no advantage really of bf. The tone is if you want a baby to sleep don't bf.

[jandmmum]

would agree sorry.. half wrote that post about 2 hours ago!

[Petsville]

Sorry jandmmum, I went off-topic (very stressed, can you tell?). I wasn't suggesting that the book wasn't rubbish. I also didn't realise she was suggesting doing it in week 2!

[TheProvincialLady]

Petsville as Tiktok says, you may be able to get your baby to use a cup (of EBM or formula). Depending on the hours worked, and how quickly your baby weans onto solids, he might be able to go without milk during the day and just have food and water. Or he might take a bottle happily from nursery staff/childminder without you around. Don't be sorry you BF...it will work out OK one way or the other

OP the book is rubbish. Most of them are!

[PuraVida]

My ds refused to take a bottle from me and as my back go work date approached I got more and more panicky. Was planning ways of getting to him / him to me (30 min drive away) during the working day. Had no choice, bit the bullet and it turned out that he happily slurped down a bottle from someone else when I wasn't there. Phew such a relief. Hope you have a similar experience

He never did seem to like a bottle much though at home and at 6 months ish moved onto a tommy tippee cup and has never looked back

[organiccarrotcake]

You could certainly try a cup, petsville. A doidy cup works for some (they lap at it when they're little) or a cup with a lid.

Do you know about the equality law requiring workplaces to be more bfing friendly?

[jandmmum]

petsville I do sympathize. DD also went through a phase but thankfully is now taking bottles again but is really fussy about the temperature.. will only take warm milk. There's a feeder system (can't quite recall the name but sure someone on here will know) that's supposed to be more like bf and more accepted by bf babies. may help. good luck!

[differentnameforthis]

we did use some of the ideas in the book, and he was sleeping all night by 8 weeks

I didn't use a book, exbf & dd2 slept through the week at 7 weeks.

I ff, didn't use any books & dd1 didn't sleep through until around 6mths.

There is no exact science. There is no quick cure for sleep! You have a baby, you expect that baby to want feeding at night, regardless of your chosen method of feeding

Petsville a friend had to go back to work, couldn't bf. So she went out for the day & left her hubby & dd with expressed milk in a bottle. Eventually the baby took it. It wasn't easy, but it happened!

[differentnameforthis]

slept through the week night at 7 weeks.

[organiccarrotcake]

different

I wonder whether books discussing infant feeding should come under some regulation for their content and advice.

Any thoughts/knowledge about this area?

[BaggedandTagged]

I do agree that at the last pre-bed feed the baby is often too tired to take a proper feed. If I bf DS he'll just take a few oz and then drop off again, waking a few hrs later, whereas if I express and then bottle feed, he'll take 5oz and then sleep through.

It's really difficult. We all know bf is best (unless we live under rocks and cant read), but I think after a few weeks/ months of feeding every 2 hrs round the clock a lot of women couldn't give a damn. They just want some sleep and I know no ff babies who feed every 2 hrs. I guess what's she's advocating is limited mixed feeding which is what most people I know do- formula at last feed to try and get one longer block of sleep. My personal feeling is that if it keeps you bf some feeds a day for longer, then it's not that bad.

I do think she's advocating expressing too early though. It might be ok if your baby was a great feeder from the off, but most women aren't even properly established by then.

[Petsville]

Thanks for the advice. I do know about the equality law, and I've thought hard about it, but the problem is the nature of my job (and the distance from home), not my employer.

[PacificDogwood]

I agree with OP, crap book.

IMO and E food and sleep have nothing to do with each other.
And what is wrong with a baby 'wanting a cuddle' ??

petsville, I have returned to work 4 days/wk (10-12 hrs days) when DSs were between 5-6 months old. I also cannot express/feed at work. I found that they adjusted very quickly to either taking milk from the CM (in a bottle) when they had refused from me (DS3) or simply moved to reverse cycling (DS4 - yawn!). I did express 1x/day for a few weeks, purely for comfort, until my boobs got used to the new routine. I had NO problem at all feeding more during the days I was with them.

Good luck!

[Petsville]

Thanks, PacificDogwood - I've got similar working hours to you but a 5-day week.If DH can feed a bottle while I'm at work, great. If DS switches to reverse cycling, not great at all and I'll just have to give up BF - part of the reason why I'm so frantic about this is that I must get enough sleep when I go back to work: the job needs all my brainpower, and it's not exactly secure at the moment.

Agree with baggedandtagged - DS is nutritionally best off with BF, of course I know that, but he's been eating every 2 hours round the clock for 6 weeks and he's got a rotten, shattered, stressed mother who can't hand him to anyone else and get a break, and I wish we'd gone for mixed feeding from early on. There've been points in the last six weeks when he's been in danger of having no mother at all because I'm so desperate that I'd rather be dead. It's not PND, it's pure sleep deprivation. There's a reason why they use it as a form of torture.

[tiktok]

Have you tried a cup, Petsville?

[PacificDogwood]

Petsville, totally agree with you on the sleepdeprivation-is-torture!
Your DS might surprise you and take milk from somebody else when you are not there. Might. No guaratees. Are there ever any??
How old is your DS? Would you consider co-sleeping (was the only thing that stopped me from running away)?
If he is on some solids could he simply have more milk in his slops purees?
Yoghurt for added dairy?
Philadelphia into everything ('tis what I do)?

You sound really really stressed, so sorry to 'hear' that.
FWIW, I have returned to work 4x after mat leave and every single time the thought of it was far worse than the reality.
And the babies adjusted .

[pommedeterre]

Our amazing NCT lady (president no less) told us that it doesn't matter when you introduce a bottle. it's nothing to do with us (mothers) but all about baby - if they don't want it and get food from other sources (boob, later on weaning) then they won't have it. Other babies are fine with it whenever it is introduced.
Thunk I've explained that particularly badly but hope gist is understood...

[Petsville]

The only thing I'm worried about is the feeding - DH is brilliant with DS, much better than me, and I'm raring to get back to work (should really have gone back earlier, I think). Thanks so much for the encouragement, PacificDogwood : I'll bear the feeding tips in mind (he isn't on solids yet, but will be in a week or two). I can't co-sleep, alas: have tried it and I just can't sleep at all with DS in the bed with me. I have seriously thought about running away!

tiktok, we've tried a cup (in fact two kinds of cup) - no dice so far, but we're going to keep trying.