Don't Starve! The Eat More to Weigh Less Group

(967 Posts)
ShirleyKnot Fri 25-May-12 10:04:00


OK, stemming from this thread I promised to start a thread to explain a little bit more about eating well and still losing weight.

I'll start by telling you about me because I love to talk about me

About 5 years ago (when I was 34) I went back to work full time, this time locally, in a sedentiary desk job. I drive to work everyday and was often far too busy lazy to do any exercise at all. My weight remained fairly static (At about 11 stones, I'm 5ft 7.5 and fairly chunky) for a good couple of years and then it started creeping up.

For the past two years I have skipped on and off WW, SW and I have tried low calorie diets, the lot. My weight has gone up to 12 stone 11 lbs at it's highest and I'm carrying it pretty much all over. My gut though shock TERRIBLE - It hangs over my knickers and in January my size 16 clothes were starting to strain.

Miserable ain't the word. It has affected my confidence (yes, honestly) and I know that at my age (39) it is only going to get harder to lose.

So, in January I started back on WW. I watched everything I ate, I thought about food compulsively, I went for walks in my lunch hour, and every weekend I fell off the wagon and stuffed my face. WHY? It makes no sense! I gobbled bread and cakes and biscuits and sweets like mad.

In April, after having lost and gained the same 7lbs over and over again I joined BIWI's Low Carb Bootcamp, and started upping my exercise at the gym (Doing classes mainly and swimming and I also started the Couch 2 5K) this is where it got weird...I stuck to the diet, it was pretty easy! I loved the food and didn't feel hungry at all - my endurance during exercise was affected but I thought I'd break through that barrier sooner or later. I watched as people on the thread lost masses of weight and I was completely stalled out. What? WHY IS THIS HAPPENING? I believe that during this time I was eating a good couple of thousand calories per day, plus exercising almost every day.

I left the group as I felt so fed up with not losing and limped back to my fitness pal, but decided to stick with the no crap (no white bread/pasta/rice, easy on the white potatoes, easy on the fruit) WOE. MFP gave me a calorie limit of 1,200 cals per day and I did this for a a few days before starting to feel rotten. I started looking around the MFP community pages and found the Eat More To Weigh Less Group and read every link, and lots of the discussion boards.

It was a lightbulb moment - WHY was I expecting my body to cope on less calories than it needs just to exist? WHYYYYY?

I started EMTWL on 16th May and have lost 1 lb. That doesn't really mean very much though, as the scales are FILTHY liars - but I have eaten very well and am losing inches consistently. Since I started eating more calories (I include BIWI's brilliant Bootcamp in this calculation) I have lost 4.5 inches from my waist and a good couple of inches from my hips, arse and bust. I have dropped a dress size.

OK. I'm going to post this essay and then I'm going to talk a bit about metabolic rate calculations and the sciency bits.

knitknack Fri 25-May-12 10:06:42

This is brilliant! Thank you smile

Maryz Fri 25-May-12 10:10:57

Thanks Shirley.

I will come back when I have time to do this properly.

TobyLerone Fri 25-May-12 10:12:12

I'm in. I like the idea of eating more.

bibbitybobbitybunny Fri 25-May-12 10:15:55

Shirley, thank you, I have gradually come to realise over the past few months that I need to eat more (even though I am about 30lb overweight). I need to eat breakfast, have a bigger lunch, have more healthy snacks, drink more tea and non-alcoholic drinks, but eat a smaller evening meal. I am convinced that this plus exercise will result in weight loss. Will check out the link later but am on my way out to lunch with a friend soon. Will be back!

ShirleyKnot Fri 25-May-12 10:24:14


So the first link you're going to need is My Fitness Pal

Sign up, it's FREE and there are millions of foods in the database. If you have a smartphone the apps are also free (AND BRILLIANT) and on the i-phone it also has a handy bar code scanner which really takes the faff out of working out the calorie content of food.

Once you've signed up, you can PM me and I will friend you! (I'm not wild keen on shoving my MFP name on here for all to read as I do attract some HATERZ! grin)

Now, the next thing you need to find out is what your Base Metabolic Rate (BMR) This is the number of calories your body burns just BEING in existence.

Mine is at around the 1,500 mark. I make sure that I always NET 1,500 calories everyday. I'll explain a bit more about net calories in a bit...

Once you have your BMR, you need to find out your Total Daily Energy Expenditure (TDEE). This is the amount of calories you actually use in a day. This is dependant on your level of activity.

To get these figures go to:


and hit in your figures. Most healthy people should be choosing MODERATE exercise level - that walk you take to drop the kids at school? That laundry you do? That walk from the tube to the office? That gardening? It all adds up.

My TDEE is about 2,400.

To lose weight safely and to KEEP IT OFF and not want to fall off the wagon and shovel crisps into your gaping maw (just me??) is a 15% cut of your TDEE. I eat 2,000 calories everyday, regardless of whether the day is an exercise day or not - REST DAYS ARE VERY IMPORTANT!

For example my week might look like this:

Monday - Eat 2,000 calories. Gym - burned 500 calories. Net calories = 1,500
Tuesday - Eat 2,000 calories. Rest day
Wednesday - Eat 2,000 calories. Gym - burned 700 calories. Net calories = 1,300 calories. Eat 200 additional to bring net to 1,500...

and so on.

Read this for a really thorough explanation!

Trills Fri 25-May-12 10:26:30

Am I allowed to lurk on here just to see what tasty healthy things people are eating?

mumat39 Fri 25-May-12 10:30:00

Marking my space. Brilliant thread and looking forward to the science bit smile

TobyLerone Fri 25-May-12 10:37:53

My figures are similar to yours, Shirley, so I've changed my calorie goal accordingly, along with setting my Carbs/Fat/Protein to 40%/30%/30% as advised.

ShirleyKnot Fri 25-May-12 10:40:13

So, once you've got your amount of calories you should be eating you're probably feeling a bit scared.

I know that I was - HOW CAN I EAT 2,000 calories per day? I will balloon into an enormous shuffling creature made entirely of fat...

Well, the truth is, that if you've been consistently starving yourself, then binging, then starving again the likelihood is that there will be a small gain in weight. I have been tracking my weight properly since 1st May and here is what has happened:

1st May - 170.5 lbs.
3rd May - 168 lbs (weird fluctuation)
11th May -168 lbs
19 May - 172.5
22 May - 170.7
25 May - 171.5

Right, so as you can see, I'm bibbling about with 1-2 lbs coming on and off and getting right on my tits but I'm EATING 2,000 calories per day. Surely, if all we read about low calorie diets = weight loss, and higher calorie diets = weight gain I should be PILING IT ON?

Well, no, actually. This first 6 weeks (<gulp> Yes, you heard) can be tough (from everything that I've read) and the scales fiddle about and small gains are made - but what you're really doing is teaching your body that it's OK - you're going to be feeding it now, piling coal into the fire of your metabolism to help it burn MORE fat and help you lose weight.

The real story is in my measurements. Unforch, I'm at home today and the spreadsheet I keep with my measurements is at work, but I can tell you that since the first of May my waist measurements look like this:

1st May - 39 inches
25 May - 33.5 inches.


What I'm telling you is that

a) you might gain a little bit on the scales
b) You MIGHT gain a few inches even in the first few weeks
c) You must remain patient
d) You WILL feel great.

Honestly, I feel terrific, bags more energy, I'm happy AND I'm dropping inches. What's not to love?

Now. Read this

Alibabaandthe40nappies Fri 25-May-12 10:40:45

Shirley this is so interesting.

I am doing Paul McKenna, and I've lost about 17lbs over the last year and dropped 2-3 dress sizes - 6 inches off my waist, 7 off my hips.
I have been really surprised at how much I can eat and lose weight, and when I read that stuff about Base Metabolic Rate then I understand why. I need over 2000 calories just to keep me functioning based on my lifestyle (dashing about after 2 preschoolers + BFing).

I really think this could work well alongside PMK.

Tell me more about flaxseed - when do you eat it and how?

ShirleyKnot Fri 25-May-12 10:42:16

Of course Trills!

addictediam Fri 25-May-12 10:45:20

Thanks, this is great!

TobyLerone Fri 25-May-12 10:46:52

I'm really regretting that McDonald's breakfast now sad

ShirleyKnot Fri 25-May-12 10:47:20

Hi Ali! Well done on your loss!

Flaxseed contains shitloads (technical term) of Omega 3 fat, which is the shizzle in oily fish. Omega 3 fats have proven health benefits. flaxseed

I buy the milled stuff, and the "dose" is 30g (about 2 x dessert spoons). I add it to protein shakes, I added some to my porridge this morning, you can bake with it (add it to breads and cakes) you can stir it into yghurt etc etc...

It's got a mild nutty flavour.

ShirleyKnot Fri 25-May-12 10:47:59

Tobes - Forget that. You can calorie it up, now worries. Work out the damage and then compensate by having a salad for lunch or summat.

ViviPru Fri 25-May-12 10:54:56

Eh up Shirl.

I'm still a bit baffled by all this voodoo but I do know that once I started eating my exercise calories, I started to see results.

I'm very much where you're at weight/height/goals-wise so it'll be good to keeptrack with you.

CJCregg Fri 25-May-12 10:55:32

I'm in. Lost loads of weight with Dukan last year, but then stopped smoking and have put it back on AND MORE. Heaviest I've ever been.

Signed up to MFP a few weeks ago, but keep slipping again. I need HELP grin

shirley - I totally agree with you about inch loss being more significant than weight loss. I ditched my scales for years when I got to my slimmest because I knew that the way my body looked and felt mattered more than numbers on a dial. I bought some last year when I started to get really down about my weight and within a few days they were bullying me again sad So I have banished them to the back of my bathroom cupboard! Whether my jeans fit is a better indicator to me.

TobyLerone Fri 25-May-12 10:57:54

I've already got a delicious salad in the fridge. Homemade, with a baked salmon fillet. I'm looking forward to being hungry enough to eat it!

Re flaxseeds, is it ok just to eat them as they are? You know, like actual seeds, rather than ground up? What is 'milled'? Does that mean they're ground, like flour? I use them in muffins and sprinkle them on yogurt with sunflower seeds.

TobyLerone Fri 25-May-12 10:58:14

(cheers for doing this, btw)

Maryz Fri 25-May-12 10:58:49

This is absofuckinglutely fantastic. It really makes sense.

When I starve, I'm too knackered to even do the walk up the stairs/bit of gardening/park at the far end of the carpark, so the less I eat, the less exercise I take in a normal day.

Um, it's Friday, how does wine fit in?

<off to sign up with mfp>

<realises has to weigh self first shock>

mumat39 Fri 25-May-12 11:06:50

Shirley. Hi. What should i put in for the % calorie reduction in step 6? Sorry if i'm being a bit dim. Thanks and this is a really interesting thread.

ShirleyKnot Fri 25-May-12 11:08:08

Oh one thing I haven't said:


This is about changing our relationship with food. It's about eating WELL, good food and getting some exercise in there too.

Think about it, you know when you're looking at the nutritional details on food, and it has guideline amounts? It usually says for Women the guideline amount of calories is 2000 per day? Well, obviously, that's just an average for women to be eating (this is why you need to try and calculate your TDEE) but this means that once your at your goal weight you will still be eating around about this amount - the goalposts don't change! You won't be able to suddenly eat 4000 calories per day, or drop to 1500 per day - it means that your body NEEDS about 2,000 (or whatever your TDEE is) to maintain your weight!

ShirleyKnot Fri 25-May-12 11:08:39

Hey mumat39.

You want to choose the -15% deficit option.

ShirleyKnot Fri 25-May-12 11:18:29

Maryz - so shall we talk about wine then?

I have a bit of an uncomfortable relationship with red wine if I'm honest. I love it. LOVE LOVE LOVE IT, but it doesn't love me and my gut certainly isn't impressed when I go mad with it.

I can easily drink a bottle of wine in one sitting, EASILY, and I have also been known to crack open a second bottle. sad

All I can tell you is this...Your body will use alcohol as the first available fuel. So when you drink alcohol your body seizes upon it and instead of using stored fat and the carbs that you have eaten to function it will use the alcohol first.

I've been cutting back on the old booze since the beginning of the year - with the odd inevitable slip. I don't drink wine at all during the week, and try to stick to only having some on one day of the weekend.

Last weekend I only drank one small glass on Saturday night. I'd rather eat some chocolate if I'm honest.

It's about choices really. So if you want to drink a bottle of wine on a Friday night, then of course, you can factor this into your calorie amount - but be aware that this MAY affect your losses...

The other thing you need to be doing is drinking plenty of water - I drink about 3-4 litres per day (I KNOW!) - and also watch your salt intake. Without these two factors your body is prone to water retentions which makes you feel bloated and uncomfortable

Maryz Fri 25-May-12 11:19:14

It's coming up with 40%protein, 40%carb, 20% fat, is that right?

Fuckit, emergency call from ds. I will be back.

This is why I never do anything for me angry

ShirleyKnot Fri 25-May-12 11:21:23

Nope. Change your macros to:

40% carb
30% protein
30% fat.

ViviPru Fri 25-May-12 11:25:15

I've been steadily losing about 1-2 lb a week, and lost 3 last week. I've lost 3cm off my waist in 2 weeks. I need to lose 2st/get into a small sz12 by May 2013.

Aside from eating my exercise calories, here's what seems to work for me:


Home made granola every weekday morning - can give details if anyone would like
Eggs for weekend breakfasts
Skimmed milk
Lurpak lightest
No bread except Hovis Nimble (I know home made is best but it's not sustainable for me)
Loads of oily fish - Salmon, mackerel, tuna
Loads of salad
Muller light Greek Style yoghurts
Slimline tonic (mainline anyone?)
Avoid pasta/rice/too much potato, maybe once a week.
NO CHEESE sad (except a bit of low fat cheddar now & then)


30 min walk EVERY DAY (sadly quite a hard one for me given recent events but I'm working on it)
Hi impact exercise class 3 times a week
Cycling at least an hour a week

I know I've included some dreaded diet foods, but I don't think of them as exclusively for 'this diet' they are more like healthier alternatives for the rest of my life. The cheese thing is a bit of an issue for me - I am like a crack addict with it. I'd boil it up and inject given half the chance.

I'm hoping to add to the above when I hear what works for you lot.

knitknack Fri 25-May-12 11:27:07

Shirly can you tell us a little more about what you actually eat? Or where you went to find that information? Sorry to bombard you with questions.

ViviPru Fri 25-May-12 11:27:13

So when you drink alcohol your body seizes upon it and instead of using stored fat and the carbs that you have eaten to function it will use the alcohol first.


I'm REALLY missing my friday night cider, but I just don't think I can incorporate it.

I think the drink of choice for our little collective here is inevitably going to have to be gin&slim...

ShirleyKnot Fri 25-May-12 11:49:34


Of course! I gave an example on Buppy's thread. Yesterday I was under calories because I had some maddrugz at the dentist and so I am eating soup (and will be again today) but I can give you another example of a typical weekday if you like and a typical weekend?

WEEKDAY: (Last Thursday, a rest day so no exercise))

Breakfast - Before leaving for work
1 x pint of water before eating anything. Vitamin B complex, multivit without iron, co-enzyme Q10, Chromium polynicotinate (These are my supplements, they're not really necessary - I just like them)
1 x cup of coffee with 100ml almond milk
1 x banana, 30g x flaxseed, 200ml x almond milk, 1 x protein shake - blended into a smoothie.

Mid Morning Snack - Usually at about 10.30-11ish.
2 x hard boiled eggs.
pinch of salt (NORTY)
1 x cup of super matcha green tea

1 x chicken breast (cooked the night before)
2 x tomatoes
Spring onion
1/2 bag of Watercress/spinach/rocket salad leaves
Homemade herby olive oil dressing (3x tbsp good olive oil, 1 tbsp white wine vinegar or lemon, fresh basil, 1/2 tsp dijon mustard - stuck in jam jar, shaken. 1 jam jar does 2 servings)
1 x tbsp FULL FAT helman's mayo
Artichokes in Sunflower oil (about 5) from Sainsbury's deli.

Mid Afternoon Snack - usually about 3.30-4ish. This staves off that horrible NEED BREAD thing I get when I come in from work! grin
Full fat probiotic yoghurt
4 x squares Lindt intense dark mint chocolate

Dinner - I try to eat earlyish, before 7pm unless I'm at the gym.
Brown rice
Slimming World recipe for Beef Madras
2 x squares Lindt dark intense Orange chocolate.

This is what 2026 calories looks like. I was STARVING when I woke up which is a terrific sign that my metabolism is starting to recover, but not starving all day - when I'm hungry I eat a little chocolate something.

(On a low calorie diet not feeling hungry EVER is a BAD sign - your body is adjusting to the smaller amount of calories and in order to keep the loss going you will have to DROP calories again. BOOO!)

Do you want to see a weekend day? Or am I boring the tits off you all? grin

Maryz Fri 25-May-12 11:51:42

It sounds as though apart from being ten years older, I am quite like you Shirley. Only a bit bigger around the middle blush.

I also have the same type of relationship with white wine as you do with red. And dh doesn't drink it, so if I open it I finish the bottle.

I suspect I shall have to cut it out completely. I'm good on the water and salt though, which should help.

Ok, my bmr on mfp is 1490 calories a day, but 1535 on scooby. I'm not sure I'm doing this right confused.

scooby is saying my TDEE is 2379 I've selected moderate exercise, 15% reduction and 30/40/30 protein/carbs/fat.

So basically, I need to eat 2,000 calories per day. And on a day when I do more exercise, I can up my calories the amount my exercise uses and I should be losing (or at least not putting on).

Maryz Fri 25-May-12 11:54:35

Oh, cross posted.

That is great.

I'm overdoing the carbs and the crap, and probably underdoing the protein.

Now I will go back to msw and try to work out how to input meals. I presume if I can save a whole meal when it's something I eat often, and don't have to input every ingredient every time?

You are not boring me. I think I'm finding it a bit confusing because I keep having to go off and do things hmm.

ShirleyKnot Fri 25-May-12 12:01:09

Ignore the BMR on MFP - It's nonsense. Use the BMR you got from the calculator.

It's still only 45 calories out though, wich is nothing in the grand scheme of things.

Now, your TDEE of 2379 is AFTER your 15% cut? Then this is what you should be aiming to eat...I'd round it down to 2,300 just to make life easy.

Eat 2,300 calories EVERYDAY regardless of exercise, unless you burn enough calories to take you under your BMR of 1,500 (let's call it 1,500 for an esier life)

Say for example you ate 2,300 calories yesterday, but you also went and did a step class AND a 40 minute swim and you burned 1,000 calories - then you need to eat an additional 200 calories to bring your NET calories up to your BMR.

I'll talk a bit about exercise in a while!

ShirleyKnot Fri 25-May-12 12:01:50

Oh and yes, you can input meal that you eat regularly. You can also input your favourite recipes and it will calculate the calorie total for you. HOW SWISH!

TobyLerone Fri 25-May-12 12:05:33

I'm not bored of the 'what I eat in a day' posts, Shirl. I love them!

<nosy cow>

Maryz Fri 25-May-12 12:06:38

Can I change my allowance to 2300 on myfitnesspal.

At the moment I'm trying to put in my regular daily things, for example I use the statin-added milk because my cholesterol is high and it's the only dairy I eat blush so I'm putting in 500 ml a day into snacks.

But mfp is only allowing me 1510 a day (not sure where that came from I thought it gave me a bmr of 1490 confused), so can I change that?

Maryz Fri 25-May-12 12:07:16

Oh [lightbulb]

I can change my goals and customise it myself.

Back in a mo.

Maryz Fri 25-May-12 12:08:04

And the day I do a step class and a 40 minute swim will be the day I do drink the entire bottle of wine, so I wouldn't worry about me over-exercising grin

amalur Fri 25-May-12 12:10:35

Shirley, I pm'd you. You got me inspired! I have signed up for mfp.

I actually had been thinking along these lines for a bit but everytime I try to eat more and see the scales going even further up I freak out!

Maryz Fri 25-May-12 12:10:56

Right, I have changed my net calories to 2300, changed my carb/protein/fat to 40/30/30, left the salt/vits/fibre etc as they are and ignored the fitness goals for the moment.

My fitness goals are very simple - try to do more.

Sorry, I'm taking over this a bit.

SweetTheSting Fri 25-May-12 12:18:21


I am excited by this!I am always 'failing' my MFP calorie allowance. Off to read the rest of thread.

RighteousDude Fri 25-May-12 12:21:25


I'm the fattest I've ever been. Must lose weight

ShirleyKnot Fri 25-May-12 12:25:31

<waves flags for Mary>


That's a good tip for everyone actually, BUT I am an addicted weigher...I weigh every day blush

Something that has really helped me has been this site You sign up and if you're a dreadful weigher you can enter your weight and also what you've eaten everyday - I'm not sure why this gives me a feeling of control but it does - I think because I know the following facts:

You have to eat 3,500 (approx) calories OVER your TDEE to gain 1 x pound of fat. Well, I know FO SHIZZLE that I'm not doing that so the gains and losses I'm looking at are almost certainly water fluctuations.

To find out more about why the scales are weird Have a read of this

I know I'm blinding you all with shedloads of information and links, but please take your time, read through them and decide if this is something for you or not - this will take patience and understanding of the basic principles in order to get over a few hurdles

Maryz Fri 25-May-12 12:30:30

Thanks Shirley.

I'm going to leave this for the moment, have a good think, and come back tonight with a few basic recipes/things I eat a lot and try to enter a whole load of info on mfp, so that each day it will be easy to do it quickly.

For the moment, I'm heading to the garden before the kids get home.

You have really got me thinking. Thanks.

BonkeyMollocks Fri 25-May-12 12:34:40

Marking place to read through later smile

ShirleyKnot Fri 25-May-12 12:47:00

You're so welcome Mary. Enjoy the sunshine.

OK, Toby. Here is my diary for last Saturday. I went to the cinema with my boys and ate some sweets and shit while there - have a look:

Banana, protein shake, flaxseed, almond milk smoothie. Coffee with almond milk (see a theme developing?)

Mid Morning Snack
After my protein shake I went to the gym for an hour and a half and burned 835 calories. (I know this because I have a heart rate monitor which allows me to more easily judge the calories I am burning from my work outs - it's GREAT! I love mine.) so I had another shake when I'd finished working out - this time made with water.

200g x cous cous (bloody loads)
1/2 courgette fried in 1 x tablespoon of olive oil with sun dried tomatoes and 65g of ready to eat spicy chicken breasts. All jumbled up with the cous-cous
1 x activia yoghurt (the "luscious" creamy ones)

Mid Afternoon Snack
1 x wholemeal bagel
Philadelphia light cream cheese (not super extra mental light, just the light one)
3 x slices of pastrami
1/2 tomato

Then we went to the cinema and I ate:

10 x wine gums
4 x handfuls of popcorn
1 x small bag of M&M crispy.

Salmon fillet cooked with pak-choi and shitake mushrooms in 1 x tbsp groundnut oil and 1 x tbsp reduced salt soy sauce and 1 tsp sesame oil.
1 x small glass red wine

This little lot came to a NET total of 2,300 calories. So I went over - <shrugs> I didn't feel guilty or ashamed or HARD DONE BY at all. I know that those extra 300 calories are outside of my usual norm and will not result in me putting on extra fat cells...

See? It's about sustainability and being KIND to ourselves.

oliviafrombolivia Fri 25-May-12 12:51:41

Delurking to say THANK YOU, this is AMAZING, am inspired.

MaryZ, scuse me for butting in, but your net carb intake won't be 2300 it will be the figure under it, at whatever you have set (-15%, -20%)... mine is one point out to yours and my net intake is 2021 at -15%..

TobyLerone Fri 25-May-12 12:53:28

That sounds fab, Shirley.

What were you doing at the gym to burn 835 calories?

Pinot Fri 25-May-12 13:01:56


<hides crisps>

ShirleyKnot Fri 25-May-12 13:03:46

Welcome olivia! Please stay unlurked! I think you are right about Mary's TDEE - it sounds as though our numbers are similar so 2000 would be more in the right region...

Toby - I did..<deep breath>

25 minutes on the treadmill - alternating running and walking - getting the heartrate right up and then walking to recover and then running hard again - High Intensity Intervals basically.
20 minutes on the bike - High resistance vs Low resistance (again HIIT)
10 minutes rowing
25 minutes on the crosstrainer of doom
Then warm up and warm down as well.

The group on MFP are VERY big on heavy weight lifting and not so big on the cardio. I love cardio, but it does mean that I have to watch that I'm not over exercising and therefore giving myself a calorie goal I can't reach.

I do bodypump 3 x times per week (weight lifting class) but I'm planning on starting some heavy weight strength training in the meathead part of the gym next week.

TobyLerone Fri 25-May-12 13:11:59

Shite, I hate the crosstrainer.

I usually do 5k on the treadmill (combination of running and walking -- usually about 50:50), then 5 miles on the bike. This only ever seems to add up to about 350 - 400 calories sad Perhaps I will force myself onto the crosstrainer tonight.

I must start with the weight machines. I can just never be arsed. I figured I ought to drop some weight via the cardio first, then start toning with the weights. I could well be doing it wrong, though.

Maryz Fri 25-May-12 13:21:42

I have adjusted my numbers a bit now - I'm happy not to actually lose, but to stay where I am and get fitter first. So I'm setting mine at 2,100, to give me a bit of leeway and not feel I'm being too hard on myself.

dd starts her school holidays next week and is off until September shock, so I'm going to make her exercise with me. I am going to look at swimming twice a week, and trying to do couch to 5K over the next month or so. We are both also starting a pilates course.

So I'll start slowly with things I enjoy and see how it goes. I know if I join a gym I will only last a week and give up because it is "too hard". We have weights and a rowing machine in our garage which the boys use, but I never have.

I also have a jungle big garden, so can work up quite a sweat out there hmm

ShirleyKnot Fri 25-May-12 13:30:35

Don't do the cross trainer if you hate it!

The EMTWL group on MFP is very big on heavy weight lifting and I have seen some incredible before and after shots!

The thrust as I understand it is that not only do muscles burn more calories than fat, take up less space in the body than fat - but also that strength training also continues to burn calories for LONGER after your workout than cardio! (an 11 stone muscular person will not only burn more calories than a fat person of the same weight but they will also look a lot smaller - another reason why scales are poop)

They are big on NROLFW regime over on MFP. I have downloaded it and read it and it certainly raises some interesting points!

As I say, I'm planning on starting that next week. Just dreading going into that maley man bit of the gym.

Mary - you could deffo do some weights at home then!!

BIWItheBold Fri 25-May-12 13:31:46

<checks out the competition>

ShirleyKnot Fri 25-May-12 13:33:03


I was complimentary BIWI! grin

TobyLerone Fri 25-May-12 13:39:22

I wish I could properly low-carb but it makes me sad in the heart.

BIWItheBold Fri 25-May-12 13:40:08


I'm really glad it's working for you Shirl - honestly. I know how frustrated you were and how good you were being.

ShirleyKnot Fri 25-May-12 13:45:03

I'm still eating a higher (good) fat and protein diet than I was when I started the bootcamp and I want to say thank you so much for curing me of my horrible bread and cake addiction...

Also for introducing me to 90% chocolate - I always hated dark chocolate but my palate changed so much during bootcamp that the darkest stuff tastes sweet to me now!

So thanks BIWI. You really changed my attitude to the evils of sugar and the pros of a good, healthy, protein rich diet.


BIWItheBold Fri 25-May-12 13:46:46


Mwah right back atcha

Me too Toby

I've just eaten almost a whole tub of Blueberries. It said I had to eat 80g for it to count as 1 of my 5 a day, but it would seem I wasn't very good at estimating that 80g.
I have left about 10 for the DC's to squabble over blush
I just don't know how to not have fruit or potatoes!

I haven't measured enough since I started my exercise regime so I have no idea where or if I have lost inches. My tummy is still a bit floppy, but I have lost half a stone since I started in about February I think.

Well done Shirley
My TDEE is 1976 apparently, ( I put in moderate exercise to balance between strenuous Jillian Michaels workouts and gentle dog walking) my basal metabolic rate is 1275, so does that mean I will get fat because it is lower than the TDEE? confused

ShirleyKnot Fri 25-May-12 14:08:54

Your BMR is the amount of calories your body would burn if you were in a coma!

What this means is that your net calories (the calories you have eaten less the calories you have burned through activity) should never drop below this number because your poor old body, rather than turning to your fat stores to function, basically panics and believes you are living in famine. The human body is incredible and geared towards survival, so if you eat below your BMR it adjusts your metabolism to burn LESS calories, which means the minute that you start eating normally again - or have a binge - it grabs all of that 'extra food' and lays it down as fat.

This is why people lose weight initially on a low cal diet, and then usually stall and then get frustrated, binge eat for a few weeks and the weight piles back on again.

People with eating disorders who never drop out of starvation mode, have bodies who have broken down all the fat stores PLUS muscle and eventually the organs.

So. What I'm saying <ramble ramble> is that you should eat at your TDEE - this figure without the -15% cut is the amount your body uses to maintain weight. With a 15 % cut you WILL lose weight/inches, safely. Although it will be a slow loss, it will also be a sustainable loss which - provided you continue to eat at TDEE once you are happy with yourself, will never be regained.

I am so inspired - thank you Shirley! Have just had - for me - an ENORMOUS lunch (bean salad, whole tin of tuna, sweetcorn, cucumber, tomatoes and dressing) and a Cornetto (it's bloody hot...) and still have over 1,000 calories left - I think I have been coming in at least 800 - 1000 UNDER my TDEE which would explain why I have come to a crashing halt, my poor body must think I am going through such tough times...

nocluenoclueatall Fri 25-May-12 14:28:47

Marking my place. I hate numbers. Really, really hate all these damn numbers BUT I noticed this morning I am now somewhere between 11.5 and 12 stone on the scales (I love my scales - they're a bit worn away so you can't really read the NUMBERS on them) and that's bad. That's about two stone bad.

I do no exercise at all and I think it's highly unlikely that I get anywhere near to not eating enough calories (thinks back at the entire packet of St Agur I scoffed yesterday... mnnnnn. Nope. Defo enough calories in there). My plan is to MFP it and make sure I eat somewhere between 1500 (what they suggest to lose weight) and 2000 (which I think is not far off one or other of the acronyms).

Does this sound right to you? Or do I have to click on all the links and use my addled brain?

If anyone wants to add me as a pal on MFP I am specialknickers.

Maryz Fri 25-May-12 14:33:50

I have just spent half an hour entering what I reckon I will eat today, knowing what we are having for dinner and entering in what I had for breakfast and lunch.

I'm a bit horrified to discover that I will have used up all my carbs, but only two thirds of my protein and less than half my fat.

I knew my diet was carb heavy, but today was (I thought) a low-carb day sad.

I have been following a low-fat thing in my head for so long (for example I would always have more spaghetti, less sauce) that I can't get low carb into my head at all.

I need to up my protein and lower my carb, a lot. And that's just after looking at one day.

Maryz Fri 25-May-12 14:34:42

And wine is just carbs too [weeps]

Maryz Fri 25-May-12 14:37:54

I'm going to go and read BIWI's thread - I abandoned that idea too early, because I was worried about cholesterol.

nocluenoclueatall Fri 25-May-12 14:42:03

Okay. I went onto the scooby whatsit and I'm about right. BMR of 1486, TDEE of 2044. They suggest a target daily calorie intake of 1737. Which sounds about right to me.

I wish I'd known this years ago when I tried to do a diet that had only 600 cals a day (I know, I know. It was called the rotation diet, I was 16 and a little bit chubby. It was brutal, I couldn't stick to it and my weight's been going up and down ever since).

Thanks Shirley. I'd given up on dieting for good but this has inspired me. It makes sense. Now, all I have to do is not eat an entire packet of cocopops in one sitting and away we go.

<dusts three years worth of dust off size 10 trousers and sits back to wait for the results>

Maryz Fri 25-May-12 14:44:58

I'm going to suggest this to dd. She eats too many carbs, but not enough food, is anaemic and knackered all the time. Now I know why.

I think I'll get a bit of steak for tomorrow grin

ShirleyKnot Fri 25-May-12 14:46:56

Noclue - please have a look at the calculator. It's not terribly complicated and you can c&p your results if you like and I'll have a look for you.

Mary - don't get too hung up othe macros yet, im still working out how to hit them consistently. Get used to the calorie load first.

ShirleyKnot Fri 25-May-12 14:47:52

X posted! grin

Maryz Fri 25-May-12 14:49:14

Yes, I'll keep an eye on the calories first.

But it is a bit of a wake up call, to realise that on what I think is a healthy low-carb day I'm over my carbs. I need to look at things like rice/pasta/bread quantities as well as the carbs in fruit (I love bananas), smoothies and breakfast.

I think scrambled egg for breakfast tomorrow.

Maryz Fri 25-May-12 14:50:59

Acksherly, I may have missed it, but what protein shake do you use, I need to get some flaxseed, and where do you get almond milk (and is it revolting?)


Maryz Fri 25-May-12 14:55:07

Argh, it's €4.69 a litre. Wine is cheaper (almost).

BIWItheBold Fri 25-May-12 15:00:14

Maryz - don't worry about the cholesterol. The low carb thing - should you go down that route - really isn't an issue.

A really good book to read (and for anyone else) is Escape the Diet Trap, by Dr John Briffa. He talks about cholesterol (and the myths about it) in there.

Maryz Fri 25-May-12 15:04:08

Thanks BIWI, I'm having to rethink a lot of things atm. I've got into really bad habits, and I can see that dd is following me. Since she will be at home for three months during the summer I will have to make some changes, so this is great.

I looked at your recipe threads, but there isn't much about breakfast - have you any suggestions for breakfasts (atm it is a choice of cereal or cooked bacon and eggs - there must be more options). Maybe it is somewhere else on the bootcamp threads I will wade through the early ones tonight

ShirleyKnot Fri 25-May-12 15:16:15

You don't have to use almond milk! I just like it. Skimmed milk or semi skimmed is just fine!

Don't get too hung up in what I eat - its just there as an example! So you can have boiled eggs, or scrambled eggs or baked beans on whole meal bread or yoghurt and fruit for breakfast!

I have protein shakes as a quick easy thing to fling down my throat before I leave for work - and because I do a lot of exercise, protein helps to sort my muscles out and prevent too much agony!

AuntieMaggie Fri 25-May-12 15:53:01

Just marking my place

AuntieMaggie Fri 25-May-12 15:53:01

Just marking my place

MinnieBar Fri 25-May-12 16:55:18

Ok I'm a little bit confused on two things:

- Can you put your carbs/protein/fat preferences into MFP? I'm only really using it on my phone and I can't see how to adjust that, or even where it is.
- Do I put my TDEE or my TDEE -15% into MFP as my daily aim? It's a difference of approx 300 calories.

Apologies, I get the feeling you've explained the latter already but I'm still not completely understanding it, sorry.

I am horrified by the fact that my MFP friends can now see all the crap I eat. It's completely motivating me to lie completely.

Maryz Fri 25-May-12 16:59:51

I think (but I might be wrong), that you can go to change goals, and customise both your net calories and if you go into "custom" mode you can change car/protein there. That's what I did.

And you put your TDEE - 15% into MFP if you want to lose weight.

[might have got this arseways emoticon]

TooImmatureTurtleDoves Fri 25-May-12 17:23:38

This is really interesting! Any idea how to adjust for breastfeeding? My TDEE -15% is 1988 cals - I put moderate exercise as am now home with 11 week old baby and dog to walk.

BIWItheBold Fri 25-May-12 18:20:50

Maryz - I can tell you about my breakfasts, but mine are low carb, which is different from what you're doing here.

(I eat mostly eggs - boiled, poached or sometimes scrambled. Weekends often have bacon and eggs. On the days when I have a 6.45 am gym appointment I have some full fat natural Greek yoghurt)

Maryz Fri 25-May-12 18:30:41

Oh, yoghurt might be good.

I need to lower my carbs a bit, because my diet is very carb-heavy - on the recommended carb/protein/fat of 40/30/30 I would use up all my carbs by lunchtime. If I could lower the carb intake at breakfast it would help me eat more balanced meals later in the day to fit in with this system, if that makes sense?

And dd lives on carbs - she thinks if she eats more rice/potatoes/pasta and less meat/sauce etc she is watching what she eats hmm. Not to mention the crisps and bread.

I have realised that my hunger cravings aren't hunger cravings. They are carb cravings. I have loads of calories left in my day, but only want a slice of white bread with honey on it grin

ShirleyKnot Fri 25-May-12 18:55:59


Minnie - if you go into goals and click on 'custom' then you can change all your details in there - not entirely sure how you do it via the app though...

Enter your TDEE minus your 15% for weight loss, Mary was right!

I'm not too sure about breastfeeding - I have a feeling you're meant to add an extra 300 - 500 cals per day wile nursing, but I'm slightly shaky on this. I can ask the question over at MFP if you like?

Alibabaandthe40nappies Fri 25-May-12 18:56:50

Maryz what do you tend to have for breakfast? I have wholemeal toast with peanut butter, or full fat greek yoghurt with some nuts and fruit, or sometimes pancakes but with yoghurt and fruit. Or bacon.

Alibabaandthe40nappies Fri 25-May-12 19:00:50

I am interested to know what the consensus is about breastfeeding.

Also Vivi - please can you tell me about granola? How much do you make up at one go, and how long does it last? And your recipe please smile
Mornings are chaos here and only going to become more so once DS starts school in September, so I can't cope with making something on a daily basis, but something I can do a week at a time, or a few days at a time and then just shove together with some yoghurt would be fabulous.

TooImmatureTurtleDoves Fri 25-May-12 19:08:22

Yes, please ask about the breastfeeding, Shirley! Thank you!

Maryz Fri 25-May-12 19:24:17

Erm, nothing.

Followed by a cup of coffee and a bar of chocolate (the crap stuff) at about 11 when the kids have gone to school and I've got my morning sorted out.

I don't eat much lunch either. But have about 6 cups of coffee a day, each with random crappy carbohydratey stuff. And dinner. And continue all evening if I can get away with it.

But All This Is About To Change.

I can't eat like this when dd (who is 15 and not skinny) is home. She will match crap for crap if she sees what I eat.

MinnieBar Fri 25-May-12 19:37:40

Finally managed to change the goal setting - it was set to 66% carbs hmm but grin, that does sound rather nice.

You have compelled me into exercising, so thank you! I did half an hour of 'Just Dance' on the Wii - really is good fun, and then all the DCs (5,3 and 2) joined in so I felt doubly virtuous.

ShotgunNotDoingThePans Fri 25-May-12 19:42:22

< waves to Alibaba >
I'm on the Paul McKenna thread as well and I think I'm about to leap on this as The Answer To Everything.
Can't digest all the info properly as it's my birfday today and I've just had--half a bottle-- a couple of glasses of Champagne before dinner.
But I thank yew Shirley and I look forward to a healthy, happy New Me.
Re. the exercising: I struggle with high-intensity aerobics as I have back/joint ishoos so if I push things even a little bit I'm paying for it for weeks after. So my gym programme is a balance between aiming for pain relief and toning.
But, weirdly, I've just come across a programme called Curvalicious which is basically the same idea you mentioned - that women are not best served by the 'low weights high reps' method, but need the opposite to build firm muscle and burn fat.

Am struggling to comprehend the calorific figures fully in my pissed state, but will come back when fully sober as a keen follower of the sect.

And Mary, I find a great sustaining breakfast is wholemeal toast with jam and a big dollop - not a scraping - of peanut butter. Easily keeps me going to lunchtime. Or I have two eggs, again with wholemeal bread.
Protein and brown carbs are key to long-term sustenance.

Maryz Fri 25-May-12 19:57:52

I've just eaten a Mars Bar icecream, which should up my fat intake a bit grin.

But I still have calories left confused. I need to eat more earlier in the day, and solve this fecking carbs problem.

ShirleyKnot Fri 25-May-12 20:10:24

Well done Minnie! I love that Dance game, I beat the boys every time. <competitive>

Shotgun - happy birthday! I think the heavy lifting stuff is really gathering a following among women. Lots of people have been scared of bulking up and looking like a bodybuilder, but it's so unlikely to happen without steroids that it's starting to sound like a good option!

Mary! A MARS BAR ICE CREAM? How decadent! Get some nuts in the house, these will provide you with a high cal, good fat easy snack and it's much more healthy! grin

Maryz Fri 25-May-12 20:12:02

This is great. I have put it to track my sodium and my cholesterol (I know, I know, but I'm damned if the fecking doctor is going to give me tablets for it hmm) and it is giving me a lot of information.

I'm going to give up prawns hmm


Maryz Fri 25-May-12 20:16:15

Yes, but I haven't been shopping since I started this, I have no snacks [weeps]

And it's hot - it hasn't been hot here since 1994.

I have discovered that ds1's diet is incredibly healthy. He eats very few carbs, almost no processed food and very little sugar. His snacks are healthy - today he had tinned mackerel on wholemeal toast mid-morning, and a concoction of a tin of tuna, two boiled eggs, tomatoes, cucumber, pepper and a sweet chilli sauce. And he had a protein shake before his weights workout as well as 20 minutes punching a punch bag.

Now if he could give up the drink and the dope.... hmm.

Seriously though, I'm going to get him to show me a few weights. I like weights - they don't make a noise so I can watch Jeremy Kyle tv while doing them, not like the rowing machine.

TooImmatureTurtleDoves Fri 25-May-12 20:16:58

I still have calories left too - about 200 of 'em. Not sure what to eat now. There's only limited food in the house due to DH and I trying the Don't Buy Any More Food Until Pay Day challenge. I might actually have to cook something to consume my calories, unless I eat 3 or 4 apples.

<wanders off to rummage through fridge>

addictediam Fri 25-May-12 20:48:17

Shirley I just wanted so say thank-you again! Today I have eaten properly for the first time in along time! We had a BBQ, ice cream and I ate some biscuits. And I don't feel one bit guilty or sick smile OK so I ate 12 more callories than I should have but I don't care!

ShirleyKnot Fri 25-May-12 21:06:01


Those of you with calories left over - if it's under a couple of hundred I don't worry too much, I've got 181 left today, I probably won't eat them now. It won't matter too much if I bounce a hundred over my allowance tomorrow.

It's the first day! You don't have to be too tough on yourselves! This is a marathon not a sprint.



nocluenoclueatall Fri 25-May-12 21:06:31

Thanks Shirley. I think I've cracked it! Had a BBQ tonight, with a lovely glass of wine and STILL hit my calorie target.

Carbed out of my brain as usual, no way near enough on the protein thing but it's giving me something to work on. Eggs for breakfast tomorrow hurray.

Thanks again for this, I feel quite inspired!

Maryz Fri 25-May-12 21:11:57

I've got 768 left shock and I'm not hungry and there is nothing to eat here apart from white bread, mars bar icecreams and fruit.

I suppose I could have a banana and a couple of apples, but I'm not hungry confused

I will put my total count back to 2000 a day (which is minus the 15%) - atm it is 2100 because I thought I should maintain before trying to lose.

I think I need some suggestions for snacks. Preferably low-carb.

I like cashews and pistachios, but only the salted ones. Which is the chocolate you keep talking about? Most snacks seem to be either high salt or high sugar.

I will by yoghurts, flaxseed and nuts tomorrow. And some not-banana fruit. And some fillet steak, yum.

Maryz Fri 25-May-12 21:12:56

And thank you once again, this is the first time I have ever tried to change my eating habits and not felt totally disillusioned by the end of the first day.

quirkychick Fri 25-May-12 21:19:12

Wow, thanks for this! I am just recovering from a chest infection & loads of antibiotics- so my eating is a bit all over the place. My eating really needs resetting.

Upset stomach meant I ate loads of natural yoghurt and wasn't hungry till later. So I have eaten more in snacks than meals blush. But not a typical day!

Maryz we could swap, my carbs are low but my fat/protein is high! I will fiddle with the settings.

Maryz Fri 25-May-12 21:22:32

How did you do that quirky? Have you put it 40/30/30 carbs/protein/fat? Because when I first did it they suggested 65% (I think) carbs, which would have suited me fine, but I know is bad for me.

quirkychick Fri 25-May-12 21:24:21

70% dark choc e.g. lindt or Green & Black's, aldi's is good too.

I like greek yoghurt with ground almonds mixed in. An mner suggested it as a for dcs on another thread (with fruit).

Dp has just bought almond milk and rice milk. I love almonds and rice milk is lovely.

Maryz Fri 25-May-12 21:25:32

Oh, I love almonds. And I like them unsalted too. I don't like dark chocolate, maybe I could get dark mint chocolate <off to google>

quirkychick Fri 25-May-12 21:26:56

No I haven't managed to change settings yet! I have eaten loads of yoghurt/drunk loads of milk. Hence high fat/protein. I will try to customise but am on phone.

quirkychick Fri 25-May-12 21:29:53

Lindt mint intense and orange intense is lovely. Orange has almond slivers in too. You only need a little too.

I am going to try to customise mfp.

ShirleyKnot Fri 25-May-12 21:33:19

Bloody hell! 700 left?

Right, don't fiddle with your totals. Tomorrow is another day! (although I would prefer you tried to get your totals up a little bit today - how about a round of cheese on toast?)

The not hungry thing WILL change, once your metabolism starts firing on all cylinders, you will be hungry!

Food to get your totals up:- avocado - you can have one with some mozzarella, tomato and olive oil, or with crab sticks, or with actual crab (I see you're trying to lower your cholesterol - I would suggest prawns but they're weirdly high!). Unsalted nuts - try walnuts, brazil nuts, cashews, pecans and my favourite macadamia nuts. TRY them again, I really believe that you can train your palate. Get full fat yogurts (Pearle du lait are fabulous) Greek yoghurt with a drizzle of honey and some berries is LOVELY.

Chocolate. Get the dark stuff 70% at least. Lindt to a lovely range with mint or chilli or orange. They're nice. But for a real good for you one try Lindt 90%. It's amazing, definitely an acquired taste and you can't plough your way through a whole bar as you need to let it just melt in your mouth. <rhapsodising>

Really though you need to try and section your meals off so...breakfast will be 300 cals. Lunch - 900, dinner - 500 ish and then you work your snacks in (obviously, you can have this any way round you like, 900 cal breakfast, 500 cal lunch, 400 cal dinner or whatever!)

Maryz Fri 25-May-12 21:36:55

I am going to look for Green and Blacks, I wonder do Tesco sell it in Ireland, I've never seen it.

I will look for Lindt too.

Sadly, I'm a Cadbury's milk chocolate kind of girl sad

ShirleyKnot Fri 25-May-12 21:37:21

X posted with quirky's fab suggestions!

Oh and quirky - nobody has to eat three main meals a day - they can be broken into 6 meals, or 8 little meals or 4 meals or whatever!

Studies suggest that the time you eat has no impact on the laying down of fats - so much for the not eating late at night thing. It's ALL MAD!! grin

ShirleyKnot Fri 25-May-12 21:39:20

I've HATED dark chocolate all of my life - I swear to God. Since cutting back on sugar for a month, my tastes have changed completely and I utterly adore it now!

I ate some M&M's last week and they were TOO sweet. Honestly.

Maryz Fri 25-May-12 21:39:26

It's ok, don't panic, I had left it at 2300 instead of changing it to 2000. And I hadn't put in breakfast because I didn't start until lunch time. And I should adjust my milk intake, as I have skimmed milk in coffee.

So I'd say I have about 200 left. I really have eaten lots today, just not bread which is my killer.

Tomorrow I will shop with this in mind, which will help. Nothing in the house is appealing at all.

ShirleyKnot Fri 25-May-12 22:22:42

Ok I've got the answer to the breastfeeding thing. My sources tell me that:

The general rule of thumb is, you add 500 0-6 months and 300 from 7 months and older

This is added to your TDEE (whichever you're using, the one to keep at maintenance or the one with the 15% deficit).

Hope this helps a bit.

grumpleteaser Fri 25-May-12 22:45:50

Hiya, I lurked on old thread after my helpful suggestion of anti chafing undershorts and I'd like to try this too.
I've just started on MFP and crunched my numbers. Add me - grumpleteaser.

My daily calories that I need to eat is 2100. Today I seem to have struggled with eating enough protein but I think the calorie counter thing is a bit messed up as it said the chicken salad I ate for dinner had 212 calories but 0 fat, 0 carbs and 0 protein. hmm

knitknack Fri 25-May-12 22:52:14

This thread is so brilliant - real, empowering information, and hope! What's not to love? Thank you

Maryz Fri 25-May-12 22:53:01

Some of the entries that people put in for food have only calories, they don't have details for carbs etc. I got caught out on that with a sauce I put in - it gave calories, but zero carbs.

I will have to spend a bit of time inputting all the food I eat to get the carb/salt/fat/protein amounts right.

A lot of the members seem to be american, so I think some food is american measure as well.

I mean, wtf is a cup of banana grin

ledkr Fri 25-May-12 22:58:16

shirl I was on the low carb with you and gave up at around the same time.
It didnt suit me but made me appreciate how good it is to have freedom to eat everything and therefore enjoy all food without guilt but in smaller portions and more whole foods.
I have slowly begun to lose weight and look and feel better,im doing c25k and loving it.
This is the best my thinking around food has ever been,if i want something i just have a small amount of itnot eat it untill its all gone or i feel sick.
I will read the links with interest,thanks.

ElvisJesusAndCocaCola Sat 26-May-12 05:53:53

I'm definitely in - not much more to lose, but have always, of course, struggled to sustain weight loss. Need something sustainable for life and want to get it properly established.

One thing that seems to be happening with me is that I keep to my cals, come in on or just under my fat allowance but go wildly over on sugar. I mean double or triple the recommended amount.

I eat prob 3-4 portions of fruit daily. Not sure where else it is coming from - yoghurt? (fat free Greek) milk? It's confusing me a bit - should I be worried?

ShirleyKnot Sat 26-May-12 07:28:53

Good morning munchers!

<looks at time>

<takes deep breath>

See what all this healthy living does for you? It actually gives you more hours in the day! wink
I can see some people are worrying about their macros...

Please don't. I think the most important thing in the first week of changing the way you eat is to get used to the calorie load. If you've been starving on 1200 calories or less, then an extra 500 (or even more!) is going to seem like hard work. Reading some threads on MFP, I see that lots of people complain about feeling 'overfull' and some find it hard to cram the calories in HEALTHILY. Which is our aim of course...

So what I want you to do is FORGET the macros this week. Just forget it and focus on getting your calories right.

I'm thinking about hitting the gym today, I'm a bit worried that the weird valiumy stuff my dentist used on Thursday is still coursing through my veins but I'm starting to feel twitchy and I think I need to go and have a good sweat!

It looks like its going to be a glorious day!

Happy eating everyone!

ledkr Sat 26-May-12 08:02:12

Ive been up since 6 with a whingey baby as usual. I am also off to the gym today and cooking a heathy curry for dinner spoiled by popadoms. I stil havent got my head totally around the figures and science but im reading through it between being hit on the head and having my lap top sabotaged. Sounds similar to what I have been doing since BWIW'S bootcamp failure.

shirl is it beast not to have milk then?I dont drink it but do use it in my copious cups of tea and coffee each day.

ledkr Sat 26-May-12 08:03:37

HAHA i mean best not beast-im not that fat grin

ShirleyKnot Sat 26-May-12 09:04:56

Milk is fine! I only use almond milk because:

A) I like it, I like the flavour in coffee!
B) it has marginally less calories than normal milk
C) I'm asthmatic and I have read that cutting back on dairy can be beneficial (I spoil this by eating shed loads of yoghurt!)

BIWItheBold Sat 26-May-12 09:46:43

Shirl - according to Briffa, yoghurt is better tolerated than other dairy, so hopefully you will be fine with it

ledkr Sat 26-May-12 10:47:12

Almond sounds lovely in coffee though yum.

Im loving the way BIWI is overseeing events as chief diet guru for mumsnet grin

BIWItheBold Sat 26-May-12 10:51:29

Oh no! shock.

I'm just nosey, ledkr!

BIWItheBold Sat 26-May-12 10:52:00

Will exit if you think I'm trying to do that.

ledkr Sat 26-May-12 11:22:19

Oi! Where is you gsoh BIWI ? i WAS JOKING. I was very complimentary on several threads about your boot camp,it sorted out my odd food habits for sure. My bowels just couldnt handle it haha.

Alibabaandthe40nappies Sat 26-May-12 11:24:18

Right I have signed up and put my details in. MFP wants me to eat about 1500 per day.
Based on TDEE though, and taking into account breastfeeding I should be eating 2300 per day, and more if I do anything significant in the way of exercise.

I am not going to stress about the calories, I'm planning to use MFP as a food diary - mainly for the composition of what is in my food.
I suspect that I am still eating too much sugar, despite the fact that I eat massively less sugar than I used to. Which is scary, and does rather explain why I had impaired glucose tolerance in my last pregnancy. hmm

I will be interested to see whether eating according to the PMK method (slowly, only when genuinely hungry etc) will have me roughly on target.

Maryz Sat 26-May-12 12:15:55

No, don't go BIWI. It seems that a lot of people are like me, and when they want to get calories back to normal levels all they can think of is adding carbs.

We need to learn to get our calories some other way.

I think we have all been brainwashed to think that low fat is the way to go, but of course low fat also (generally) means low-protein, so we get miserable and tired and hungry, and then eat more carbs which makes it a vicious circle.

Any advice on lowering carbs even for those of us who are to afraid aren't ready to cut them out completely is great.

For example, I stood in M&S this morning and tried to think of non-carby snacks to fill me up when watching the eurovision. All the nuts were salted. All the snacks were carby. Everything I fancied was bread or sweet fruit. Admittedly I don't usually get food in M&S (tesco and lidl for me, but I can't go today), so I didn't know what I was looking at.

Eventually I got some seedy bread and smoked salmon (shocking price shock), which is a start.

What about hummous, with vegetable crudites? Can you get low salt nuts? There was no mint or orange chocolate and the 70% cocoa is just too much of a challenge - I will have to work up to it grin

I am supervising 500 teenagers on bouncy castles this afternoon (don't ask). Do you suppose that counts as strenuous exercise grin

MrsMangoBistahieversor Sat 26-May-12 12:18:13

I would like to sign myself up, this sounds very interesting. Thank you Shirley. smile

I've now joined MFP. I did the calculator thing, which reckons my BMR is 1947. That sounds scarily high. confused TDEE is 3018, and my aim is 2565. I'm more than happy to scoff 2500 calories a day, just worried that I've done it a bit wrong and I will balloon! grin

Just done the weekly shop. We have lots of fish, skinless chicken, fruit and vegetables, and lots of my favourite things to add to salads. I don't think I eat anywhere near 30% protein but I'm actually really looking forward to trying. Have also bought flax seed and almond milk to try. I also have asthma, and it's been playing up recently, making it a bit difficult to do the 30 day shred. sad

Should I be aiming to have 30%protein/30%fat/40%carb in each meal, or just overall throughout the day? And any suggestions for a higher protein breakfast besides eggs?

TooImmatureTurtleDoves Sat 26-May-12 12:25:35

Breastfeeding an under 6 mo means an extra 500 cals? That makes my total roughly 2500! I think I need to go shopping.

Have had porridge for breakfast with skimmed milk and brown sugar. Not sure where porridge fits with carb/protein, though - am using as a food diary because I am used to it and can't be arsed mastering a new system.

Shopping list currently includes peanut butter, wholemeal bread, Greek yoghurt and eggs. Maybe granola makings, too - please please post your recipe, Shirley!

MrsMangoBistahieversor Sat 26-May-12 12:30:41

There's protein in poridge! shock
Now I feel a bit thick grin Think I'm going to have to have a long sit down with MFP.

MrsMangoBistahieversor Sat 26-May-12 12:33:10

X-post with TooImmatureTurtleDoves. I've just looked on MFP and poridge came up with the following;

Homemade - Poridge ( 20g Oats + 200ml 2% Milk), 1 cup cooked
208 calories 26 carbs 5 fat11 protein

I'm happy, I love poridge.

Maryz Sat 26-May-12 12:34:16

I hate porridge

<wanders off to look at readybrek packaging>

TooImmatureTurtleDoves Sat 26-May-12 12:48:16

grin at MrsMango. Great minds! Might have to bite the bullet and start learning MFP. GlamourDiets won't let me eat 2500 cals a day without painting my progress charts red and saying I am overeating. sad

MrsMangoBistahieversor Sat 26-May-12 13:07:09

Well I have very carefully measured out my coffee with almond milk, added all the details to MFP, and sat down to work out more foods, coffee in hand. Bleugh!! blush Sorry Shirley! I think I will be going back to milk. sad

WynkenBlynkenandNod Sat 26-May-12 17:39:13

Can I join too please ? Can't tell you how well timed this thread is. I lost 63lbs from July 2010 to July 2011 with WW and SW. Had loads of stress between now and then and did exactly what I swore I wouldn't do - piled lots back on.

Have been trying to get back on track the last week but can't stick to WW points as get too hungry. I found when I was doing WW that I lost better if I ate more but then had feelings of guilt when I did.

Bought the Virtual Gastric Band app and have listened to it for 6 days. I've stopped craving chocolate and cheesecake which is great but it made me uneasy and wasn't sure why. I think it's because on some level I knew I needed to eat a fair bit in order to lose and it was causing me to feel a bit conflicted.

So have signed into MFP and will be joining you from tomorrow. Not going to weigh myself for now but aim to drop a dress to start with. I feel like I've had one of those lightbulb moments reading this thread.

Maryz Sat 26-May-12 17:52:41

Well I'm doing well today, despite two Marks and Spencer hot cross buns blush

I have sorted out the milk issue and am allowing myself 400 ml a day of the special statin-including-fortified-low-fat-milk I'm meant to drink, which has calcium and B vitamins in it.

I bought a loaf of seed an grain bread in Marks and Spencer which has no nutritional information on it, isn't on mfp, and isn't on the M&S site, which is shocking, I think. So I've only guessed what is in it.

I have 400 calories to last me the rest of the day, and we are having roast chicken, boiled potatoes and salad tonight, so I should be fine.

Hi Wynken, welcome to the madhouse smile.

grumpleteaser Sat 26-May-12 17:55:19

I've eaten so much Veg for tea. Thai green curry with Veg overload and a tiny bit of rice. I feel all healthy now.

I had a look at 70% choc today and it was so much more expensive so I will just try and lay off chocolate full stop. Crisps are my down fall.

If I eat no carbs all day can I have wine and crisps at night? Or is that cheating?

On mfp it doesn't have 'housework' listed at exercise.
Or crushing plastic bottles for the recycling. So I put stepping instead as that's kinda the same. Isn't it?

Maryz Sat 26-May-12 17:56:50

Sorry, 700 calories shock. I knew I should have eaten a bigger lunch.

quirkychick Sat 26-May-12 18:24:35

I am now addicted to almond milk! I thought rice milk was delicious... I too have asthma and have just finished steroids sad.

I am shocked at how much more I need to eat. I have just realised why I am shattered because I am much more active than I thought and have been eating so little. I am a 12 and thought I couldn't possibly eat any less to be a 10. I must have plateaued.

I have reset my carbs/protein/fat and also my calories. I still have 1100 left today as I have been very active today: cleaning am and long pm in the park (30 mins walk away). Planning on meatballs in tomato/veg sauce for dinner. Yum.

70% chocolate is more expensive because you eat much less of it!

addictediam Sat 26-May-12 19:33:41

Arghhh I've got 700 callories left to eat any ideas?

BIWItheBold Sat 26-May-12 20:13:50

<rushes back in>

Sorry - GSOH still intact - was meeting up with MmeLindor and other assorted MN rogues.

BupcakesandCunting Sat 26-May-12 21:53:47

<logging in>

<hides pasty>

DrapedBust Sat 26-May-12 21:53:59

This makes so much sense - can I join please? I'm on MFP with a 1200 calorie limit and have been failing miserably at it. Now I know why!

I have a question about the calorie intake on exercise days. My BMR is 1339, TDEE 2075 and Target 1764 based on 15% reduction.

I think this means that I should aim for 1764 calories every day. However if I end up doing so much exercise one day that my net calorie intake (i.e. calories gained from eating minus calories lost from exercise) is lower than my BMR, should I eat more calories to get back up to BMR or TDEE?

ShotgunNotDoingThePans Sat 26-May-12 22:23:09

Just signed up for MFP to be told my calorie limit is 1200. Stuff that!
EMFLW tells me my TDEE less 15% is 1589 - not much more than the 1400 I've already been quoted on other sites - and that I struggle to keep to, tbh.

I don't eat much crap, I just like to eat a lot,although I put on the weight a couple of years ago when I had an uncharacteristic phase of eating puds/cakes and drinking wine every night.

I think the problem is I'm not particularly overweight - I'm quite slim but like being thin better - loads of clothes in my wardrobe don't fit and I'm fed up with not being able to wear the things I like. But that means it doesn't take a huge amount of calories to keep me alive, so my TDEE is lower than I was hoping for.

But Shirley's fat-melting thing, resulting in smaller measurements but not necessarily weight loss as such, sounds worth a try.

One question: do you have to do loads of exercise? I try and go to the gym once a week, plus do loads of time-consuming stretches each day for my bad back; don't think I've got the time or the inclination to up the activity by much.
Oh, and I walk the dog a few times a week.

I am gradually increasing my activity, but have to be cautious as it hurts to over-exert. I was nearly in tears last week after an hour's gardening session hmm.
Can't see me doing a body pump class any time soon.

Maryz Sat 26-May-12 23:29:57

Draped, I'm sure Shirley will be back soon, but I think if you do a lot of exercise you can add to your calorie count on that particular day. You should never have a net calorie intake of less than your TDR (so you need to eat a bit more if you exercise a lot).

Shotgun, if you are quite slim, maybe you need to steadily eat your TDEE rather than your TDEE less 15%, so that your body normalises itself for a bit. It's possible that if you are eating as little as 1400 a day, your metabolic rate has slowed too much.

At least I think that is the theory. And you could also concentrate on getting your carbs/protein/fat ratios right, and do some resistance work with bands, for example, to up your muscle mass.

<guess who has been reading about this for the last two days grin>

ShotgunNotDoingThePans Sat 26-May-12 23:48:53

< Impressed >
I like the sound of steadily eating my TDEE's - I'm away this w/end and have managed 2,500 today < feels proud >, so it shouldn't be too much of a sacrifice smile.

Btw, you can easily get non-salted nuts - look in the baking or 'health foods' section of the supermarket. Or in health food shops, obvs.
Loads of different nut butters as well, spread on crackers or rice cakes make a sustaining snack. Or slices of apple dipped in is nice.

I think the trick is not to think as a snack food as fancying a nibble, but somethi g to keep you going to the next meal. Dull when compared to a choc chip muffin or half packet of digestives - but they're not really food - just something put together in a factory to make a profit.

I do have a resistance band and a couple of weights - and we've even got a redundant rowing machine, plus I've got some dvds which I know are pretty effective if I stick to them. So I'll have to work on building up that side of things, which hopefully will help with the back pain anyway.

ShirleyKnot Sun 27-May-12 08:38:28

Good morning!

Righty-o, looks like everyone is doing pretty good!

Mary - hummus is a brilliant food to eat, I like it with those ryvita thin thingies, they're like a dry flatbread, but I also love it with carrots. God I love hummus.

MrsMango - sorry you didn't like the almond milk! Try it on cereal or something, don't waste it!

A word about exercise and 'eating back' calories...

If you have chosen a MODERATE activity on the calculator, and you do about 3-5 exercise classes per week (or you have a busy lifestyle, walking with buggies, running around after toddlers etc etc) then the amount you need to eat is your TDEE with the -15% and that's it. You eat this amount of calories EVERYDAY. The exercise is 'built in' to your daily calorie amount.

The only time you need to eat more calories after exercise is if your net calories drop below your BMR.

I didn't go to the gym yesterday as I was far too busy dealing with a FLEA INVASION <shudder> and getting ready for my DS's birthday BBQ/sleepover.

I had some alcohol last night and after a good few weeks of abstenence I can tell you that I feel like poop this morning envy

I'm booked to go and do a body combat 'clinic' round the gym at midday and the thought of bopping about is making my head spin! grin

Oh! I had a lovely Non Scale Victory today - NSV's are when something lovely happens about being slimmer, like your jeans fitting better, needing to do your belt up another notch etc etc - my friend who I haven't seen for a few weeks came over and did a shock face at me in my shorts, followed by a "OMG Shirley, you're getting skinny! Look at your WAIST!"

<happy dance>

<Ignores the 1lb gain on the scales>

ShirleyKnot Sun 27-May-12 08:51:33

Yesterday! Not today. What a twat I am <shakes fist at rose wine>

addictediam Sun 27-May-12 08:59:11

Shirley just so I'm getting this right

My base 1400
My tdee is 1900

If I eat the amount I'm ment to, then go to the gym and burn say 600, I need to eat annother 100. Right?

Alibabaandthe40nappies Sun 27-May-12 09:30:22

Oh Shirley that is fab when you get lovely compliments grin

I have woken up starving this morning, starving.

I need ideas for protein without going over on fat.

Maryz Sun 27-May-12 09:33:53

Me too Ali.

I have no problem keeping within my calorie limit - in fact I am probably too far below if I avoid crap - but I need more protein, and I need to stop craving carbs.

I will be shopping tomorrow for 70% chocolate, salmon, tuna, hummous - can we add to the list of snacks that are low in carbs?

ShirleyKnot Sun 27-May-12 10:20:33

Addicted - yes! You've got it!

Would you like to talk about protein shakes? They provide a big hit of protein and are easy to drink.

I get mine from my protein I can be a bit funny about drinking stuff with any sort of chemically/medicinal taste to it - I make a big old fuss having to drink alka seltzer for example - so please be assured that these shakes are OK! I wouldn't be able to drink them otherwise.

I started by getting a few of their samples to try, and I like having some variety! I have a big bag of the banoffee one. I also have a tub of Body Fit protein smoothie from Holland and Barrett that I'm desperately trying to get through - its pretty grim!

The other thing you can do with the protein powder is add it to porridge, make pancakes and muffins with it, there are LOADS of recipes on the Internet!

Other protein rich breakfasts - bacon and eggs (you can get v lean bacon medallion things, but I just get the good stuff!) as long as you count the calories! Omelettes. I had a whole meal bagel with almond butter and a banana yesterday (not protein rich but LUSH)

ledkr Sun 27-May-12 10:30:15

<whines> Im stuck! I just dont understand it all. My stupid baby doesnt give me time to read it all properly,ill try later in bed,i do c25k every other day at gym and some weights,have no idea what that burns or how to apply it to mfp.
Am i just stupid??

shirl My dd's teacher was at the pool yesterday and commented on how much weight i have lost smile I walked home feeling like Jennifer Lopez <deluded>

ShirleyKnot Sun 27-May-12 10:35:15

You're not stupid led! What part are you struggling with? I know it's a bit complicated at first. Let me help you!

I bet you are the spitting image of J-Lo. grin

ledkr Sun 27-May-12 10:40:42

I think its literally not having time to read it all through,can you summarise?
Can i eat carbs or not? What about fats? How do i calculate exercise?

I am off to the gym now before it gets stupidly hot so maynot be back for a bit.

I love the way you said im not stupid but left the baby as such haha.

And im bloody sunburned,should know better at my age really.

TooImmatureTurtleDoves Sun 27-May-12 10:55:44

Okay, have decided to turn over a new leaf and start MFP properly. I PMed you, Shirley - please friend me!

Yesterday we went for a huge long walk in the sun for 2 hours and I came back shattered and starving, so scoffed wholemeal pittas and homemade green bean hummous and then went out for tea and had a burger and chips. And a Magnum Gold. I have no idea how many calories were in that little lot, so am restarting today so I don't have to count it. Now I'm going to be good and count properly. And if DH would get off his arse and make breakfast while I am stuck here MNing feeding the baby it would help.

ShirleyKnot Sun 27-May-12 11:03:20

Yes, you deffo have a stupid baby! grin wink

Ok summary is thus:

You can eat whatever you like! As long as you stay within your calorie goal. It is best to try and eat GOOD carbs - I try to avoid white pasta, white rice and cakes, sweets and biscuit (I don't always manage it though!) - like veggies, wholemeal pasta, brown rice, fruit and so on.

Add some GOOD fats, natural oils - olive, coconut, rapeseed, nut oils. I avoid 'vegetable oil'. Avocados, oily fish, I have small amounts of Unsalted butter, raw nuts and seeds contain fat as well.

Protein - lean meats, fish, lower fat cheeses, eggs are all good healthy ways to get proteins into your diet.

This is the way that I eat. I try to avoid processed food, I really don't like the taste of ready meals anymore, but I do eat ready made soups sometimes. I prepare healthier versions of my favourite foods for evening meals, like chilli con carne made with lean casserole beef rather than mince and brown rice - I can then have some for lunch the following day if I fancy. I LOVE salad and veggies, I'm very lucky really.

TooImmatureTurtleDoves Sun 27-May-12 11:15:15

Aaargh, MFP has Tesco Finest Multiseeded Farmhouse Batch, but I've just realised it doesn't have the carb/protein/fat ratio attached. Grr!

ShirleyKnot Sun 27-May-12 11:22:30

Have you got an iPhone? The app has a totally BRILLIANT barcode scanner which makes life so much easier!

Getting on this thread to read later, because I have just started eating clean and eating more protein and less carbs, and I seem to be getting fatter, so all the articles are really interesting.

TooImmatureTurtleDoves Sun 27-May-12 11:36:35

No, sadly I only have a crappy basic phone. However, all is not lost - have discovered that the bread is in the MFP database about 3 times and another entry has the proper carb/fat/protein info entered. Yay!

I have achieved a breakfast/brunch of 1056 calories, yay! Scrambled eggs with anchovies, cheese and basil, 2 slices of the aforementioned multiseed bread and Anchor Lighter Spreadable, a cup of tea, a low fat yoghurt and a homemade smoothie. Gosh, it's a proper real brekkie. Hurray for bf calories!

ShirleyKnot Sun 27-May-12 11:37:32

Hey seventh - if you've only just started then you need to be patient with your body. Especially if you've been on the starve/binge/starve merry go round for a while, you are resetting your metabolism which can take quite a while.

The weight gains weren't achieved overnight and neither will the losses be! excellent grammar

foosty Sun 27-May-12 11:50:56

Hi Shirley

I'm jumping in. This is so interesting!I don't really understand what I'm doing, but my calculations come up as:

BMR - 1484
TDEE - 2300
Daily calories - 1840 - so is this the amount of calories I should be eating? <sorry for being thick>

I'm doing 3 circuit training workouts a week which are very hard going, plus I'm trying to do a bit of pilates or yoga at home (more for the stretching element really) and I'm doing other bits and bobs all week, so I think I'm pretty active, and trying to up my fitness.

I'm about 11st 9/10 and 5'3''. Had very little success with SW/WW and find that low-carb works best for me, but I seem to have come to a standstill. Think I've totally cocked up my metabolism over the years and really, really, really want to get fit and healthy. And back to a true size 12 would be great, instead of squeezing myself into 14.

Any advice would be amazing! Have joined the EMTWL group on MFP. It's all just a bit complicated right now, but I feel like I'm on the verge of a massive change...

foosty Sun 27-May-12 11:57:54

Also - I'm trying to change my daily calories goal but it won't let me. It's at 1200 a day just now...can't figure out how change it

(I realise how stupid I'm sounding!)

Maryz Sun 27-May-12 12:00:11

For anyone who is finding this complicated, I have just entered my TDEE-15% and am trying to keep to the calories.

I'm not entering entering exercise yet, I will wait until I have my foods sorted out as it is time consuming. I'm just putting myself down as "moderately active" to cover housework, gardening, a couple of reasonably brisk walks and a swim a week.

I'm finding it easy to stay within calories, but struggling with not eating too much in the way of carbs. I'm going to stick with this mfp-light version for two weeks, measure and weigh myself again, and then maybe ramp up the exercise and be a bit more strict on my macro ratios.

Does that sound reasonable Shirley? Certainly, once my foods are entered in mfp it will be very easy to follow.

foosty Sun 27-May-12 12:02:27

Hi Maryz - so my TDEE -15% comes in at 1955 - can this be right??? considering the last time I joined MFP it gave me 1200 a day to live off, which I found nigh-on IMPOSSIBLE, especially when exercising.

Maryz Sun 27-May-12 12:07:27

Yep, my TDEE-15% comes up at about 2,000. So I'm sticking to this, working on the principle that if I take a decent amount of exercise any day I will lose weight, if I just live I will stay as I am, but my main reason is to get my metabolism back to some semblence of normal, and to try to tone up a bit (and conquer my carbs fettish, hence trying to stick to the macro ratio of 40/30/30 carb/protein/fat).

I realise that I've only been doing this for two days, so I'm not the guru. It's just making sense.

And you can change your goals by going to goals and hitting customise (not recommended) - you can change your calorie and your macro ratio.

foosty Sun 27-May-12 12:17:53

right, thanks - so I put in my net calories consumed as 1955 and it says my daily calorie deficit is just 55. Does that sound right?

Maryz Sun 27-May-12 12:23:52

I ignored my calorie deficit blush and at the moment it is 10 calories, so my projected weight loss is zero.

But since I put in my goal as my TDEE-15%, I'm assuming my calorie deficit is actually 15% confused, so I should be losing weight. You are the same - the calorie goal you put in is your TDEE-15%, not the calories they worked out for you. That's why it looks as though you are not going to lose anything. Is that right?

But mostly I'm just doing the diary to watch what I'm eating for the moment. I'll crank it up in time, and start using all the tools.

Ask Shirley grin

ShirleyKnot Sun 27-May-12 14:13:29

Foosty, welcome!

Your TDEE less your -15% cut is 1840 is that right? Did you choose MODERATE as your exercise level? If so then, yes! You need to eat 1840 everyday. Your exercise is built into your TDEE with deficit, so you don't need to worry about 'eating back' your exercise calories...unless you do a big burn one day and your net calories fall below your BMR (in your case 1484). If you DO fall below your BMR then just eat enough calories to bring you back up to it.

Don't worry at all about what MFP tells you once you have customised your goals. It's a bit of a blunt instrument really, and we're using it really to track our calories and macros - that's all.

Please, when you get a bit of time, read through the links and the links in the links! This will help you to really get what we're trying to achieve, which is mending our metabolisms.

What a gorgeous day we're having here in London. I'm contemplating a bike ride this afternoon with the kids.

ledkr Sun 27-May-12 15:09:08

I would like a round of applause for still going to the gym despite the searing heat and getting a phone call from dil to look after her ds aged 3 cos she is ill.

I have 2 under 3 and dd1 and her friend and ds2 and a tired dh on nights,i am a mass of suncream and lollies and filling paddeling pools, AIBU to expect to be a size 10 with my lifestyle grin

Right im off to do the calculations,had chicken for lunch with salad and cous cous,all very good until the slice of choc cheesecake but it was split between 6 so not too bad.

bigwombat Sun 27-May-12 15:12:56

I've done every diet known, but can't stick to them for more than about a week! I simply have no willpower.

My BMR is 1600 with a TDEE -15% of 1638! So not much above the level needed if in a coma!!! This seems to be mainly because I've put in activity level of sedentary! Not sure what I'm supposed to do about this - have no spare time as have a profoundly disabled child who loathes going for walks but needs constant care meaning no opportunity to exercise, and work at a desk the rest of the time! Don't think I can stick to 1638 in the long term. Aagh. I guess I do average amounts of housework, but not really actively iyswim!

foosty Sun 27-May-12 15:20:30

thanks Shirley smile - so I don't need to concern myself with eating my exercise calories? 2 days a week I do circuit training which is very intensive, have no idea how many calories it burns though. I'll google it.

am reading through some of the links now and it's starting to make more sense. I feel what I'll struggle with the most is any potential gain in the first instance - but this time I'm going to push through. After breakfast and lunch today i've still got over 600 calories left which is more than enough, esp when the weather's so lovely and I don't feel like anything stodgy. Loads of salad, fish and meat so far today, and I think I'll have some brown rice with tuna for dinner.

bigwombat - can you fit in an exercise DVD? 30 day Shred workouts are only 20minute each and do you a power of good...

ShirleyKnot Sun 27-May-12 15:23:33

Hi bigwombat.

If you picked sedentary then this will be why your TDEE is so low. I'm sure that with a profoundly disabled child that you are certainly not sat on your arse the whole time that you're at home!

A couple of questions for you, because I KNOW that I can find you a little bit of time in your day somewhere to stick an exercise DVD on, or some way for you to have a little walk/run. I know it's hard, and you think "ARGH! No way can I find any extra time!" but it's so important, and once you start upping your activity level a little bit, you will WANT to do a bit more. Please believe me. This will improve your life, give you MORE energy and boost your metabolism.

So you say you work at a desk? Are you WOH or WAH? Do you have a partner who lives with you?

bigwombat Sun 27-May-12 15:26:39

Yes, i have a few workout dvds, life seems to always get in the way of sticking to them regularly, might manage once a week on a good week. Have an old exercise bike too. I guess if I was really motivated I would make the time. Oh dear!

ShirleyKnot Sun 27-May-12 15:28:43

Foosty - circuits are a killer! Have you heard about heart rate monitors? I have one and it is a far more accurate way to track calories burned. I do about 800 in a Step class shock

I totally understand what you mean about initial weight gains, but I can't stress enough how unimportant they are in the grand scheme of things. Remember that this is the way you'll be eating for the rest of your life! Healthily, but with the odd treat AND a meal out if you like, and the odd party/drink up - the Rest Of Our Lives. A small gain in weight now, for a great gain in LIVING forever!

ShirleyKnot Sun 27-May-12 15:33:05

Does the thought of being able to eat more motivate you bigwombat? It does me, that was my initial reason for starting to exercise.

2 months on and I have fallen back in love with it. I LOVE the rush of endorphins, I LOVE the time with just me and my thoughts (which are generally 'THIS HURTS, THIS HURTS!" instead of "oh god, I hope I can afford my loan repayment this month"), I LOVE the changes I can see in my fitness levels and the energy I have and I LOVE the way my body is starting to change and look better.

When you first start exercising it feels like lots of painful hassle, but if you keep at it, it becomes a looked forward to part of your day.

bigwombat Sun 27-May-12 15:33:42

I work in an office about 3 miles from home. I have considered cycling, but know that at current fitness levels this is too ambitious in the time available! Also parking a bit further away and walking is sometimes possible, but not usually as I have to pack my work into limited hours and get back in time for dd to come home on her bus. I recently bought a special 3 wheeler buggy on ebay in the hope of going for longer walks with dd, but so far she hates it and is not playing ball. Maybe getting up earlier for a dvd workout is the answer (or even a bike ride). I know I could do more, it just requires organisation and motivation which seems to be very variable.....

bigwombat Sun 27-May-12 15:36:28

You are right Shirley, I used to love going to the gym and being fit and healthy. Seems a huge uphill struggle to get back there, a lot of the struggle is in the mind.... Thanks for all your info, it's very helpful!

teedeeuk Sun 27-May-12 15:44:33

Can someone point me in the direction of the 'vegetarian rules' for low(er) carbing? thanks!

ledkr Sun 27-May-12 15:48:17

ok i did it. Have a bmr of 1598 gives me a calorie allowance of 2100 which seems loads. I havent quite mastered the exercise thing yet? I do 30m cardio and 30 mins weights every other day what do i need to do?

ledkr Sun 27-May-12 16:18:34

bigwombat I have been doing the c25k and am really enjoying it because its set workouts so i get a great sense of achievement when i finish rather than wonder if ive done enough.

I also used to do the shred dvd's which i enjoyed for the same reasons.

I had my 5th child a year ago at <whispers> 43 and just couldnt find the time to exercise again untill recently where i just started on the spur of the moment.
I feel so much better for it and I work part time and have ds2 on the transplant list so lots and lots of hospital appointments.
It really has given me the energy to cope with it all.
I hope you can find a few mins for yourself.

foosty Sun 27-May-12 17:27:05

I LOVE my circuits classes Shirley - have been going for about 3 or 4 months now. Started at one a week and now go to 2, plus am upping it with a shred in at some point and a run another day. Know what you mean about the time to yourself, and man it HURTS but I feel amazing after doing it. I go with a few friends and we've made it so that's it's COMPULSORY to go, we don't have a choice unless there's something else that we just can't avoid. Like a leg falling off or something.

SO I started this way of living today., but mainly just reading up on it, and trying to plan ahead - tomorrow it's the real deal, baby....I'm committing myself to it...hope you don't mind me asking a zillion questions!

ShirleyKnot Sun 27-May-12 17:51:19

Bigwombat - you can do this! You can find a way to fit it in and then you will fall back in love with it!

Led - did you choose MODERATE as your exercise choice? If so then 2100 is the amount of calories for you to eat everyday. Do not eat back your exercise calories unless they take your net cals to under your BMR.

Foosty - I don't mind a bit!

Yesterday I finished well under my TDEE-15% sad Me, of all people, not eating enough! Today I will finish 2 calories over by the time I've had my evening snack. But I'm not hitting the "goals" for protein, fat or carbs. Is that right, or have I messed it up? confused

Shirley, I found a use for the almond milk, I'm making smoothies with it, with oats and fruit. Tonight it's banana, sultanas and some cocoa powder too. Absolutely delicious, it's like liquid chocolate without the guilt! Chocolate cravings are usually my downfall, so this is a major breakthrough! grin

Shirley, can I ask you for some advice on the protein powder stuff? There's so many on that site and I have no idea where to start. confused If I just want to use it in a homemade smoothie, to bump up my protein, what type do I need? TIA

TooImmatureTurtleDoves Sun 27-May-12 19:19:49

Bigwombat, isn't looking after your dd pretty physical? It may be that you're underestimating how active your life is.

ShirleyKnot Sun 27-May-12 19:20:57

Almond milk in smoothies is EPIC!

Ok the protein stuff. If you look at the Impact Whey Protein section you'll see that you can buy samples for 99p each. There are LOADS of flavours. I like the chocolate coconut, banana, vanilla and the latte one. The strawberry one is nice as well - in fact I haven't had one I didn't like.

The unflavoured one is alright in fruit smoothies and isn't as sweet as the other ones.

So, if I were you I'd get a bunch of sample flavours and see how you get on.

ledkr Sun 27-May-12 19:27:28

Gosh what a lot of calories to nosh on? Im nowhere near up to target but its hard to eat when its so hot. I am going to make some pasta in a bit with some chorrizo and veggies.

shirl thanks for agreeing with my baby being stupid. She has been trying to close my lap top as i type <tuts> she cant do anything for herself either-so demanding and selfish grin

ShotgunNotDoingThePans Sun 27-May-12 20:59:12

Right, just so I can be sure - can someone confirm what I should be aiming for?
Here's my figures:
BMR: 1369
TMEE:  1883
15% cut: 1600

So do I, as MaryZ suggested, start by sticking to my TMEE for a bit?
And what about exercise? Do I eat more to make up the cals lost in exercising (minimal, in my case), or stay at the TMEE regardless?

I've already managed 2031 today (includes 2 pieces of birthday cake, which I wouldn't normally have), but I know I can eeasily make the 1800 cals, even eating clean! <greedy cow>

Depressingly, my birthday weekend has already added a good 5lb onto the scales, although I usually take my (lighter) morning weight as the right one ao we'll see tomorrow. And I held back sad.

quirkychick Sun 27-May-12 20:59:34

I'm struggling to eat my calories but I think that's because I've done a lot of walking and I'm just not eating my exercise calories. I don't know if I struggled with low carb before because I just wasn't eating enough or it was the low carbing itself?

Today I have hit my carbs because I had a huge blowout meal in the beach cafe: prawns in seafood sauce, potato salad, jacket potato, coleslaw and loads of salad. Yum, yum.

I think it's going to take a while to reset my eating. I have lost 2lbs though, but gained 2inches round my waist. Probably due to horrid virus which meant I ate little and exercised not at all. I have been sort of low carbing, doing weights and keeping a food diary on and off for a few years. Just not analysing the results. Time to be more scientific.

Trills Sun 27-May-12 21:02:35

I have no idea how you are all struggling to eat 2000 or so calories in a day. Is it because you've been on crazy restrictive diets up til now?

knitknack Sun 27-May-12 21:10:07

OK I'm 14 chapters in to John Briffa's 'escape the diet trap' (bought this morning!) it's making SO much sense, it's very exciting to have all this information!

ShotgunNotDoingThePans Sun 27-May-12 21:12:00

Agree Trills - I put away well over 2,500 on Saturday and could have managed a lot more blush.

Trills Sun 27-May-12 21:25:25

I m now back from my weekend of cocktails and crisps (and I did try to mainly eat crudites rather than crisps with my dip) and will be trying to eat "cleaner" this week. Unfortunately it's my birthday this week and I have a work night out planned so I don't think alcohol-avoidance will go very well.

ledkr Sun 27-May-12 21:40:52

I could easily manage to eat all my calories if it was on chocolate wine and bread grin i just had 2 glasses of vino and added them but alas still not up to my limit.

Maryz Sun 27-May-12 21:42:50

I think it's because I'm trying to keep my carbs down, Trills. So I've pretty much cut out bread.

The alternatives I'm eating (eggs or readybrek for breakfast), tuna/sweetcorn for lunch, that type of thing is keeping me fuller longer.

Also the heat is helping apart from the Mars bar icecreams

Maryz Sun 27-May-12 21:43:26

And I haven't had any wine this weekend, as I've been on taxi duty for one or other of the kids every night.

DrapedBust Sun 27-May-12 21:47:35

Thanks for answering my q about exercise calories - I get it now.

Can we talk about how we're getting on with balancing the meals so you get the right about of carbs, protein and fat? I love love love carbs. I'll be buying some of those protein shakes- sounds like a good snack to have when I'm working from home. Almond milk sounds yummy too.

ShirleyKnot Sun 27-May-12 21:51:01

Shotgun - that sounds a bit low, what activity level did you put?


Please, please, please remember that to gain 1lb of fat you have to eat 3,500 calories over your BMR. Have you eaten 17,500 extra calories in the last few days? I doubt it so it's water fluctuations.

Go back to the top of the thread and read my posts again. No point measuring (quirky im looking at you!)and weighing in the first few weeks. Honestly, it will make you feel shit.

As to eating at maintenance? On the MFP group there are people who are eating at maintenance, this is called a "metabolic reset" and it's great for people who are just coming off a 1200 cal diet and who have been at plateau for a's like a break from thinking about it all for a while, and I think it can help you break the starve/binge metabolism damage, but it does mean even more patience, as 6 x weeks at maintenance before you start even thinking about losing any weight is quite a brave thing to do I think.

Trills Sun 27-May-12 21:51:04

I haven't had any wine (did have about half a pint of cider though) or chocolate, and I'm on 2,120 today. I'm not really counting but I went and did it so I could tell you that.

Maryz Sun 27-May-12 21:53:51

It's Sunday though, you probably had a massive Sunday lunch (or dinner).

I must say, I was eating more when the kids were younger as I finished a fair bit of their food and also seemed to be making multiple meals.

For me, Draped, the carbs are the problem. I really didn't realise how many of my calories came from carbs. Cutting down on carbs means automatically cutting down my calorie allowance.

ShirleyKnot Sun 27-May-12 21:55:10

I'm going to talk a bit about hitting the macros properly when I've worked it out myself next week.

I find it hard myself to be honest - my fat is pretty much always higher than it should be, but I think that's a by product of eating oily fish almost every day.

ShirleyKnot Sun 27-May-12 21:55:52

<waves at Trills>

Trills Sun 27-May-12 21:56:08

Nope, I very rarely have roast dinners.

I did have bacon and egg and toast for breakfast, and I had lunch. Normally on a weekend I'd just get up late and have a brunchy thing.

Apparently I am low on protein and high on carbs. Not very surprising. I am surprised that my fat isn't higher than it should be though.

quirkychick Sun 27-May-12 21:57:16

Oh my post has disappeared! I think it's trying to eat low carb/clean as well.

I had gallstones and went on a low (bad) fat diet and lost a stone in weight as well as the symptoms. I then restarted low carbing but lost no more weight. I've just been on antibiotics/steroids so my appetite is shot. I sound so healthy... I also thought you just needed to eat less as you get old(er).

I really didn't realise I'd been starving myself at all. I think it's hard to get your head round eating more and "dieting"/being healthy.

Maryz Sun 27-May-12 22:05:51

So, I'm going shopping in the morning.

I will buy

70% chocolate
salmon (smoked and raw)
nuts - almonds and anything unsalted
various veg for hummus
ryvita for dipping in hummus
ground almonds
ground flaxseed

I'm not a great cheese/butter eater, and fat isn't a problem for me (since my cholesterol scare I've been happily avoiding quite a bit of fat, possibly too much)

Any other suggestions. Preferably for replacements for white bread and stodgy sweet stuff. And pringles.

I have 200 calories left for today. I could have the last icecream, or a banana [ponders]

ShirleyKnot Sun 27-May-12 22:18:43

Ooh! Ooh! Have you tried celeriac Mary? You can make wonderful crisps with it.

If you are after breaking your bread and sweet addiction then there isn't much of an alternative other than to go through it!

There are some recipes for muffin in mugs (these use flaxseed rather than flour) and other lw carb alternatives on BIWI's bootcamp recipe thread.

Maryz Sun 27-May-12 22:21:01

Celeriac, no - tell me it doesn't taste like turnip?

I had a quick look at BIWI's recipes and ran away. I will gird my loins and go back tomorrow.

I am going to have a piece of fillet steak and some mushrooms fried in butter for my lunch tomorrow while the kids are at school

I can't afford fillet steak for five sad, and my doctor will be pleased as I have to go back for blood tests during the week and she told me to eat iron.

ledkr Sun 27-May-12 22:25:28

confused again sorry. Are we low carbing??

Trills Sun 27-May-12 22:25:54

I think some people are low carbing, but not everyone.

ShotgunNotDoingThePans Sun 27-May-12 22:38:56

Shirley, you reckon my figures are low? I put in the moderate acivity level (ie not sedentary). I assumed it's because I'm old (49), and don't have much to 'lose.'
(Am 5'7 and 10st 4 - 7). I like being a stone lighter and think of that as my 'real' weight.

But it's mainly about how my clothes fit, if I'm honest. I wouldn't care (ish) what weight I was if I could get rid of the wobbly mid-section, and get the nice summer clothes down from the loft. <sniff>

ledkr Sun 27-May-12 22:44:27

Im trying to good carb-small amounts of brown rice/pasta occasional wholegrain bread.

Has anyone tried the graze boxes?They are really good and have measured portions with cals counted for you.

Maryz Sun 27-May-12 23:37:24

No, we aren't low carbing.

What we are doing is looking at the calories we are eating for this week.

But ideally, we would be eating carbs/protein/fat in the proportion of 40/30/30 so some of us have entered our goals in mfp to reflect that.

And I for one have been horrified to find that about three quarters of my calories on a normal day would come from carbs, so am looking for non-carb alternatives.

Maryz I have found cottage cheese and oatcakes to be a bit of a wonder-snack. Low fat cottage cheese is brilliant for adding almost pure protein. smile

Alibabaandthe40nappies Mon 28-May-12 00:19:21

Oh bleugh - I can't bear cottage cheese! grin

I promised myself some while ago that I would never eat anything again just because I thought I should - what a waste of calories!

I will try a protein shake - it seems really counterintuitive though, to eat something that in my mind is associated with trying to gain weight!! And I need to eat more eggs, I hardly eat any atm.

I did a bodyscan on my scales today. Visceral fat down (I'm well into normal range on that now), muscle percentage up and body fat percentage down by 3%. Still way, way, way too high, but heading in the right direction.

xkatxdollx Mon 28-May-12 03:10:56

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

ledkr Mon 28-May-12 07:19:12


ShotgunNotDoingThePans Mon 28-May-12 07:20:05

Xbat, as kind as you are to offer us the opportunity to er buy your stuff, your post is breaking guidelines and I've reported it. There's a whole other section on here for spamming advertising. Hth.

ledkr Mon 28-May-12 07:20:50

I have set mfp up but still had loads yeaterday left and it seemed like a bad day too. I need to shop too and get in some good food,its so expensive now though isnt it? Grub i mean grin

WynkenBlynkenandNod Mon 28-May-12 07:53:08

We had friends round yesterday which wasn't the best start to logging everything in MFP so I had what DD would describe as an epic fail. So am going to start properly today.

ceebeegeebies Mon 28-May-12 08:53:30

I haven't had a chance to read all of this thread yet but I am very interested in the principles of it.

However, I have put my details into the calorie calculator and it says I have a net calorie value of 2300 per day. I have just logged my meals on MFP and I have still only used just over half my calories for the day - is that right??

Also, I haven't exercised today but I usually do 4 or 5 hardcore gym sessions each week so surely I can't add the calories which I burn at the gym on top of the 2300 aswell (it is around the 700 calories burnt mark)?

Sorry if these questions have been answered already and I will read the thread when I have more time.

ShotgunNotDoingThePans Mon 28-May-12 09:10:30

Okay, I'm having a massive mild wibble.
Stood on scales this morning and I've gained 3.5 kilos since Friday shock.

So Friday was my birthday and we went away for the weekend - even so, I definitely didn't eat the 26 million cals it would take to put on 7lbs.

Is it water then? I'm thinking best start starving now unless someone can convince me otherwise.

Also, everyone seems to be talking about massive calorie burns through exercise. If that can't be done (dodgy back), does that mean the whole thing's doomed to failure anyway?

Oh crapola.

alibaba what fat scanning scales do you have? I was considering getting some calipers to check fat loss, but if there are scales that work, that would be far easier by myself.

shotgun Surely starving now would be the absolute worst thing you could do, as you will slow your metabolic rate right down.

ceebee I think you only have to worry about extra calories if you burn MORE than you expected to do when first calculating your TDEE.

ShotgunNotDoingThePans Mon 28-May-12 09:46:32

It's okay Everything - I'm actually the last person to starve themselves. Just can't do it - was more of an exaggerated over-reaction to this morning's horror.
Will be aiming for my TDEE for this week and see how it goes.

ShirleyKnot Mon 28-May-12 09:48:59


It is water. Is your period due?

To gain 7 pounds of fat you would need to have eaten 24,500 EXTRA calories over the weekend. I'm pretty sure that this is humanly impossible.

Stop weighing yourself.

If you have been starving yourself for years then how has that been working for you? Are you at a happy weight? Are you content with the food you've been eating? How's your energy levels?

Answer those questions and see if you're prepared to give this thing a proper try - it might take 6 weeks, or even longer, before you start seeing a loss on the scales.

This is not a quick fix. You will not lose 5 lbs in a week - it's not what we're aiming for!

Exercise - If you have set your calories correctly - TDEE less 15% cut and your activity level is correct then you WILL lose weight. Exercise burns just mean that we get to eat MORE every day <greedy> and it helps to build muscles, which burn more calories and take up less space than fat.

I would really, REALLY urge you to try and get some exercise into your life. I know that having a dodgy back precludes you from high impact and heavy weight lifting, but how about swimming, walking, bike riding?

TobyLerone Mon 28-May-12 09:53:18


I feel really motivated, thanks to this thread. I don't think the weather's doing any harm, either.

I am going to take loads of measurements tomorrow morning. I might even post them here because it'll definitely motivate me and I've got to keep them somewhere!

ShirleyKnot Mon 28-May-12 09:55:31

x posted!

CeeBee. - If you have entered your info properly on the calorie calculator, and you have chosen MODERATE as your activity level AND you have chosen a 15% cut in your TDEE and you're getting 2,300 then YES! This is what you will eat every day.

Isn't it FAB? Loads of lovely food. grin It can be difficult for the first week to realise that you CAN EAT! It's fuel for your metabolism. To get your calories up, add some full fat yoghurts, some good oily dressings, a handful of raw nuts.

When you get some time read through the thread, the link and the links in the links.

You only need to eat back your calories if you burn so many that your net calories drop below your BMR.

ShirleyKnot Mon 28-May-12 09:56:06


EVERYONE should take their measurements today.

ShirleyKnot Mon 28-May-12 09:56:24

ANd some photographs!

TobyLerone Mon 28-May-12 09:57:50

I'll do mine in the morning, because I think it's a better base measurement -- before I've eaten anything.

foosty Mon 28-May-12 10:03:59


Another gorgeous day - went for a quick run after dropping the kids off and did some planks, push ups, squats etc....feeling good!

Shirley - what do you think about choosing low-fat over full-fat? I have a tub of full Greek yoghurt which I love, and I know it's lower carb than the low-fat versions...what would you do? It would certainly up my calorie intake...

Had All-Bran with banana, blueberries and skimmed milk...have been low/no carbing for a while and really want to get my fibre intake back up.

also - you said about your fat intake going over - mine did too, yesterday but this is because I had smoked salmon with lunch and mackerel with dinner, so I reckon that kind of fat is fine to go over on, right? I mean it's not like I then ate a bowl of M&M's and Minstrels, is it?? blush

Maryz Mon 28-May-12 10:04:58

I'm not weighing or measuring until next Monday. I don't want to give up just yet, and it's only been three days.

ShirleyKnot Mon 28-May-12 10:10:23

Hey foosty!

I choose full fat yoghurts. I eat full fat Total Greek Yoghurt and I also eat full fat flavoured yoghurts too. I wouldn't touch a muller light with a bargepole! It's a good way of getting your calories and it has none of the nasty sugars and sweeteners which low fat options are full of.

Full fat produce helps to give you that feeling of satiety, I truly believe that eating low fat, non natural stuff just makes you MORE hungry.

Did anyone watch Secret Eaters last week? There was a very interesting part about Diet Coke. They found that when one of the family drank a glass of diet coke, about 20-30 minutes later he was in the larder looking for something to eat! It could be a coincidence, but I don't trust that diet stuff as far as I can throw it!

ShirleyKnot Mon 28-May-12 10:10:50

Mary - It's measuring to get your BASE, not to see if there's been any loss!

Maryz Mon 28-May-12 10:14:41

Oh, I did weighing and measuring on Friday, when I started, so I'm ok with that. I didn't want to do it again.

I'm still not doing enough exercise - my exercise is of the gardening/housework/walk around the supermarket variety. But I will be swimming from Monday and starting pilates.

Alibabaandthe40nappies Mon 28-May-12 10:33:07

I weighed and measured this morning. But more importantly I fitted into a pair of trousers that were too snug last week grin

I am debating whether to join the local pool and gym. They only have a creche for 2 hours in the morning, which isn't enormously helpful. It will cost me £6 to put both boys in for an hour, the only day where the creche overlaps with DS1's preschool hours is Wednesday. Other than that it means going to the gym once the boys are in bed, which is 8pm and DH and I eat together then.
I think I am going to wait until DS1 starts school in September, at least then I can go any morning of the week.

ShotgunNotDoingThePans Mon 28-May-12 10:46:11

Okay I'll step away from the scales this week <meek>.
not had AF for about 6 months so if it's water retention that's not the cause.
So I'll call it a blip and aim for a few exercise sessions this week.

I don't think I've starved myself since I was 17 and taking two pieces of fruit to school for lunch hmm. Oh, and I did a Rosemary Conley diet about 20 years ago <shows age>.

But 'normal' eating for me seems to result in weight gain since hitting the mid-forties. So, yes, there's no other alternative to heaving my aching carcass around I guess.

I have just spent an hour signing up to MFP etc, I am convinced!

I need to change my relationship to food, I'm 28 and worried about the long term effects of my frankly insane eating habits (veering from obsessively healthy and high raw to stuffing in the Dairy Milk) especially on my 3DDs.

Exercise is a problem for me, I would like to do couch to 5k but have a lack of funds for running shoes problem. Walking at toddler pace doesn't really count!

ShirleyKnot Mon 28-May-12 11:44:22

Shotgun - When I talk about starving oneself, I'm really talking about eating under your BMR - not surviving on 2 x pieces of fruit for a day.

The reason "normal eating" is causing weight gain is that your metabolism is fucked (unless "normal eating" for you is eating a lot over your TDEE, in which case you need to pull that back into line anyway) so as soon as you feed it it HOLDS ON to all those calories as fat. It's just trying to survive.

PLEASE, if you haven't done so already, please read the links, the EMTWL group stuff on MFP particularly.

buggy - Do you have any trainers at all? I don't have "proper" running shoes, but have managed fine in my normal trainers!

I do, but I gave myself shin splints running in them a fortnight ago!

ShirleyKnot Mon 28-May-12 12:02:31

Oooo, not good. Fecking shin splints.

I tell you something you could do though, and that's to take that half an hour you would have gone running in and either do a DVD (Shred is agonisingly good) or go out for a brisk walk. It's better than nothing!

TobyLerone Mon 28-May-12 12:18:01

I'm starving today. I'm trying to save my lunch until 1pm, but it'll be hard.

Is there anything I could have added to my breakfast this morning to have upped the protein in it? If you're my friend on MFP, you can probably see it on my food diary, but it was yogurt, seeds, berries, walnuts and a spoonful each of honey and Nutella. It was bloody delicious, but I've been hungry since about 10am.

Going well so far today. I woke well before anyone else as I was so hungry! Meant I had time to do some of my yoga workout before DD woke up and decided to "help" hmmgrin So far I've had twice as much protein as fat, and not many of my carbs, which is good because DD and I are at a party this afternoon and I will be eating biscuits (guilt freegrin) taking some melon with me too so I don't eat too many if I get hungry.

I've ordered some samples of that protein stuff, thank you Shirley. I also tried poridge with that almond milk this morning, very nice. I used half almond milk, half water and half a pureed banana. It was really creamy and it didn't need any sugar.

ShirleyKnot Mon 28-May-12 12:32:44

Toby - EAT if you're hungry! I've had a peek at your diary and you've got LOADS of calories left for today. Eat your lunch now and get a snack for this afternoon.

The hunger is a good sign, but you should listen to your body and if your stomach is rumbling and you're hungry then EAT SOMETHING!

TobyLerone Mon 28-May-12 12:35:03

I didn't bring anything else to work with me, and I'm here 'til 4pm. My lunch is a giant salad and a whole tin of tuna, so I won't be hungry for long. But I've learnt from my mistake and will boil some eggs tonight for a mid-morning snack tomorrow. I had some cherries mid-morning, but that didn't cut it!

Oatcakes and peanut butter would be handy to keep at work, too.

ShirleyKnot Mon 28-May-12 12:40:09

Yep...maybe change your MFP layout to the same as mine?

Mid Morning
Mid Afternoon
After workout.

Having it this way helps me to plan what I'm going to eat during the day.

Other good snacks for the office are <yawns> raw nuts (I'm so boring!), snack packs of dried fruit (apricots are filling, I expect raisins would be good if they weren't the work of the devil), protein bars.

I'm very lucky to have a fridge at work so I am not limited at all. <yay for work>

foosty Mon 28-May-12 12:41:08 do I add friends on there? I'm foosty73 if anyone wants me..


TobyLerone Mon 28-May-12 12:48:16

I don't really like dried fruit. I do like nuts, but I think it would bore me just to sit and eat them at my desk. I do have a fridge/microwave at work, so I could theoretically bring anything!

I sent you a request, foosty. Mine's kiki_jp if anyone wants to add me...

ShirleyKnot Mon 28-May-12 12:53:07

Have a look at my diary if you fancy it Toby, you can see what sort of stuff I bring in to eat every day.

Alibabaandthe40nappies Mon 28-May-12 12:53:58

seventh I've got some Omron ones, I got them from Amazon. They were a bit reduced, but not massively expensive - perhaps £30? I can't remember exactly, we've had them a couple of years.

TobyLerone Mon 28-May-12 12:54:31

I can't see yours. I had to change my privacy settings to make mine visible to friends.

ShirleyKnot Mon 28-May-12 13:14:10

Huh. I thought I'd done that. OK, will changeroo it now!

TobyLerone Mon 28-May-12 13:15:48

Unless I'm looking in the wrong place...

TobyLerone Mon 28-May-12 13:18:52

I see it now!

tethersend Mon 28-May-12 13:25:27

Can I join?

Baby weight from DD1 three years ago needs to go.

Can't do much exercise yet as cs a week ago- should I wait or can I start now?

Oh, and if you could just explain things to me really slowly, that'd be fab. Or I'll look at the links. Maybe.

Maryz Mon 28-May-12 13:26:42

I am considering prunes as I am currently on iron tablets [tmi - bleurgh]

Is dried fruit ok? I thought it was too full of sugar. I could live on dried fruit.

I have to get a few light dumbells, as ds's ones are a bit heavy for me blush and if I change all the weights around I think he might thump me. I am going to set up the wii fit again too - it isn't much good for cardio, but the yoga and stretchy bit is great for my back.

I will come and friend you all later when I've updated massaged my food diary.

Mindyourownbusiness Mon 28-May-12 13:27:37

Hello - can I join in please ? Been sickeningly naturally slim (5' 8" tall size 8 to 10 weighing between 9st and 9st 10 tops) all my adult life - hit age 50 and whoahhh what is going on ? sad. I am now 11st 4 or 5lbs at top weight and we (DH and I) recently went on a bit of a health drive - sharing a curry takeaway instead of one each - only one packet of biscuits in weekly shopping trolley on a 'when they're gone they're gone' basis, desserts only at weekend or twice a week at most as opposed to most nights, weekend full English breakfast now only on one weekend morning instead of both and then with only one slice of toast each instead of two or three. We changed from white bread to wholemeal bread also and several other gradual but significant changes. My DH who has a lot more excess than me to lose so might be the reason did much better - lost over half a stone. I got down to a steady 11st to 11st 1lb but scales very temperamental and only good to assess a general overall pattern really.
Now in last few days of it being very hot I have got on the scales in the morning and have gone straight back up to 11st 5lbs - right back where l started basically - dh has stayed the same envy.
I mention the heat because am sure it's an issue with my weight - I puff up like nobodys business in the heat and all but had to have my wedding rings cut off the other night but managed to get them off in the end with some googled technique involving dental tape - dont ask ! Now these same rings went on and came off perfectly fine 12 hrs earlier so it cant possibly be just down to weight gain. Is it the menopause or water retention problem or what ?

You might have noticed I am mightily pissed off grin and am definitely in - can you OP or anyone do an idiots guide though as I'm a bit dim lost with all the abbreviations etc

Trills Mon 28-May-12 13:28:53

Men tend to find it easier to lose weight because they have a higher % of muscle in their bodies, and muscle uses energy even when it is just sitting there. (which is why exercise is good, even if you eat back the calories you will build muscle)

amalur Mon 28-May-12 13:28:56

I signed up to mfp on friday, but really starting today as weekend was busy and I hadn't planned for it. So today I had one egg (fried in very little olive oil) and Total greek yoghurt with milled flax seeds, a few pumpkin and sunflower seeds and some agave syrup. Then had a latte at work.
For lunch I had home made soup, which was mainly vegetables and a bit of chorizo (I threw in all the stuff I could find in the fridge). I am not sure about the calories in the soup since I made it a while ago. So I need to have a bit more for lunch cos I know the soup won't see me through for long and to add protein.
Exercise wise I am cycling to and from work today (3m each way) and will be doing salsa dancing this evening.
My BMR is 1400 and TTDE around 2200 (with moderate exercise) so my target is 1900 calories. I still have over 1000 today so will need to find healthy stuff to eat.
I find it difficult not to weigh myself, but will try to measure myself instead (may need some hand holding not to go on the scales!)
Also, may need some ideas for next week as we will be in self catering accommodation in France.
Happy eating everyone!

Mindyourownbusiness Mon 28-May-12 13:33:12

Sorry meant to add I am 53 so weight gain started around 3yrs ago and we went on our mini health drive for about last 3 months when we lost the weight but I having put all mine back on now feel like all those months of being 'good' are wasted.sad

Maryz Mon 28-May-12 13:35:37


When we starve ourselves, we might lose weight at first, but our bodies think they are starving and so panic turns all our food to fat. We then starve ourselves more and get into vicious circle.

The idea of this is to find out what we need to survive, and make sure we eat this each day, so that our bodies never go into panic starvation "I have to make fat" mode.

So log into mfp, get Base Metabolic Rate (BMR) This is the number of calories your body burns just BEING in existence,i.e. if you were in a coma.

Also work out your Total Daily Energy Expenditure (TDEE) from the other site (can't find it ????), put in how much exercise you take, and calculate TDEE minus 15% if you want to lose weight.

Then change targets in mfp so that target calories is TDEE-15%, macros are carb/protein/fat of 40/30/30, and eat up to calorie limit for a while, to try to get the body back to normal. During this time you might put on a bit of weight but will have much more energy.

If you take extra exercise, that's ok, provided you don't use up so many calories that your net intake is less than your BMR (otherwise starvation panic sets in).

That's as I see it anyway. But shirley is right - if you read all the links it makes sense.

ShirleyKnot Mon 28-May-12 13:35:51

Toby - hooray! it's in a weird bit in the settings, I thought I'd changed it! confused

Hey tethers my darling! You can totally join in but only if you promise to say on TDEE without a cut. (Are you feeding my beautiful namesake via the wonder of breasticles?) I'll do you a quick explanation:

To lose or maintain weight our bodies need a certain amount of fuel everyday. This is dependant on our age, activity level, height and weight and we refer to the basal metabolic rate (which is the amount of calories your body burns if it were in a coma) as our BMR. As we're NOT in comas (unless at work) we need to calculate the actual amount of cals we burn and we refer to this as the Total Daily Energy Expenditure (TDEE). As some of us are trying to lose weight we take a 15% cut off this figure and eat at that level every day.

Consistency is key.

If you are breastfeeding you should be eating your TDEE plus an additional 500 cals, and as you're so soon after the baby I would rather you ate at your TDEE without the cut for a little while - to keep you nice and nourished while you deal with night times and lack of rest.

Mary - dried fruit, although it is high in sugar seems OK to me, I'm not low carbing so it's not an issue and I think that the fibre is a GOOD thing. As to the heavy weights? YOU SHOULD TOTALLY DO THEM! High weight/Low reps are a brilliant way to gain muscle and melt fat! Don't go buying a set of barbie weights that do FA and that you'll "grow out of" in a few short weeks.

Maryz Mon 28-May-12 13:37:42

Ok, I shall sit in garage tonight and watch tv and lift ds's weights. I hope he is out blush


TobyLerone Mon 28-May-12 13:40:26

High weight/Low reps are a brilliant way to gain muscle and melt fat!

Interesting. I did not know this.

ShirleyKnot Mon 28-May-12 13:41:07

x posted with you myob

You said:

"I mention the heat because am sure it's an issue with my weight - I puff up like nobodys business in the heat and all but had to have my wedding rings cut off the other night"

and also that you'd gained, like, 6lbs over the weekend?

It's water retention. I am telling you now that you have not gained 6lbs of fat in a weekend, or over the course of a week! It's not possible, so STEP AWAY FROM THE SCALES. (SAFTS - is my new acronym for this grin)

To counter water weight and puffiness you need to drink plenty of water (a good few litres per day) and watch your sodium intake.

Mary - I'm always right. wink

Maryz Mon 28-May-12 13:44:06

Shirley, do you do all this on the phone?

dd is almost 16 and beginning to worry about weight. She has always been fairly solid, and unfortunately all her friends are very skinny. She keeps muttering "diet", but might well do mfp on her phone, if that's easy to do, and at least that way she won't get obsessed with "diet food" hmm

TobyLerone Mon 28-May-12 13:45:18

The app is fairly good, Maryz. I have the android version. It's a bit more fiddly than using my laptop but that's probably because I am old and less used to using a 'phone keyboard for typing everything all the time.

ShirleyKnot Mon 28-May-12 13:45:23

High Weight Low Reps

GREAT benefits from this sort of exercise including burning more cals after the workout than cardio alone, brilliant for increasing bone density which is important for us women and building muscle mass means you are burning more calories per day than a fat person who weighs the same as you. <nods>

I went to the gym yesterday and started trying some heavy lifting. I managed 80kilos on my leg curls and extensions and 50 kilos on a seated row and chest press. <power stance>

TobyLerone Mon 28-May-12 13:47:13

That is really interesting. I will start tomorrow. Usually the highest weight I do is 45kg on a leg press. I'm sure I could do more. Just not for 4 sets of 10. But if I'm doing fewer reps...just maybe!

ShirleyKnot Mon 28-May-12 13:47:17

I use my phone app and I use the computer, but I'm mostly on my phone app. I love the bar code scanner on my app (I might have mentioned this before!) and love being able to pump stuff in whenever I want. I can't read message boards on the app (or rather I haven't really explored that aspect of it)

knitknack Mon 28-May-12 13:47:29

"Did anyone watch Secret Eaters last week? There was a very interesting part about Diet Coke. They found that when one of the family drank a glass of diet coke, about 20-30 minutes later he was in the larder looking for something to eat! It could be a coincidence, but I don't trust that diet stuff as far as I can throw it!"

I highly HIGHLY recommend to everyone on this thread John Briffa's book

here on Amazon - kindle version only 3.99 and there's a kindle app for iphone...

Everything Shirly talks of about food etc is here and it's SO easy to read and understand - I ploughed through 15 chapters yesterday I was so fascinated!

Maryz Mon 28-May-12 13:48:09

That is all very interesting.

<resolves to set up tv in garage weights room and get it welcoming>

As you may have noticed, I'm starting slowly, but in the past whenever I have gone headlong into something it has lasted about a week, so here's hoping smile

knitknack Mon 28-May-12 13:48:26

Oh, the reason for the quote from Shirley is that he talks about the studies which show that diet drink users put on more weight and eat more...

I will attempt to get out for a brisk walk this evening...bonus in that I can put the baby in the sling and make it harder for myself! How does this sound, a half hour fast walk three times a week plus an hour of yoga on Saturdays and Sundays?

ShirleyKnot Mon 28-May-12 14:03:24

knit - I keep meaning to read that but never get around to it - he's quite low carb though isn't he?

foosty Mon 28-May-12 14:07:49

yippee, I have friends! Thanks Toby and Shirley

I am starving today....but still have millions of calories left so shall stuff my face appropriately.

I'd really need to go to the gym to do heavy weights, wouldn't I? Might be a bit scary. I'm going to check on Amazon for some to be delivered. Poor postie!

Maryz Mon 28-May-12 14:10:12

msbuggy, if you carried the baby and lifted him up and down in time with your walking that would be even better grin

Mindyourownbusiness Mon 28-May-12 14:10:46

Thank you Shirley - I also used to be very very good at drinking plenty of water - my DH used to say your like a baby with its bottle of milk with that bloody water bottle always with you and somewhere along the line I kinda just dropped the habit. Interestingly that was when I was very effortlessly slim so you may well have a point ! So that's my first thing is to resume my former clinginess with my bottle of water!
I joined MFP btw and I cant see where I find my BMR or my other thing you said l would need to calculate (forgotten abbeviation sorry ends in EE ??)
MFP just said I would need to eat 1340 calories and when I tried to join EMWL or whatever it's called it just said join a group or start a group so I dont know where to go with it after that.
My head hurts confusedbut at least time spent on this is keeping me out of the biscuit tingrin.

frumpet Mon 28-May-12 14:13:24

VIVIPRUE - tell us the granola recipie please smile

Alibabaandthe40nappies Mon 28-May-12 14:18:50

I think the thing with diet drinks is that the sweet taste makes your body think it is getting sugar, so it produces insulin which is then sloshing around with nothing to do, so you go in search of actual food. <highly unscientific>

The weights sounds interesting. I could bench press my children?

Badvoc Mon 28-May-12 14:19:31

I have tried WW.

Also tried PMK.

Nothing works!! I am now heavier than I have ever been - all since having the depo injection in late 2009 sad

What you say really makes sense to me...I had a herniated disc in my back last summer and due to that have done no exercise since then. I am 5.5 and weigh nearly 12 stone sad

I am starting to need size 16 clothes.

My dh and dc tell me I am not fat BUT I AM.

Please tell me what I need to do!....

ShirleyKnot Mon 28-May-12 14:19:39

Foosty! I think the gym is the best option, BUT I think that you can use your own body weight as well...

god that sounds awful...what I mean is that you can use your own body weight and a resistance band in order to get a fairly good workout

this looks good

MYOB - I think you need to start reading the thread from the beginning - There is a calorie calculator that we're using rather than the crappy MFP one and all you need to know is in the links and posts from earlier on. To join the EMTWL group you just need to..join the group! grin. It just means you can read the message boards - which I would say is very valuable!

Badvoc Mon 28-May-12 14:20:26

(I did lose weight after the birth of ds2 on the harcombe diet but its tough and I am not sure it follows these rules?...)

madmomma Mon 28-May-12 14:22:23

Heeeeeelllpp?? shirley I've just started at SW(never dieted before). Is it shit? pls speak freely. If it's not totally shit will you advise me on how to modify it so I don't mess up my metabolism?

Thank you

Maryz Mon 28-May-12 14:22:25

Alibaba, I do like that explanation, and I will be using it whether it is scientifically correct or not

BonkeyMollocks Mon 28-May-12 14:27:23

Ok, I have just come back to this now I am in the right frame of mind...I have just put everything into the calculator.

Can someone please explain the daily calorie requirements?
It says 2115cals based on goal in step 6. Is that my calorie allowance to lose?

knitknack Mon 28-May-12 14:35:01

Shirley - yes he is but it almost doesn't matter, it's just the understanding that you need really (well, I need! haha)

ShirleyKnot Mon 28-May-12 14:44:05

madmomma - no! Slimming World isn't shit, it's actually pretty good! I still use lots of their recipes. It is a bit - one size fits all, which I think can be counter-productive, but I wouldn't say it's a terrible "diet" plan...although I WOULD say that it might be valuable to track your food on MFP at the same time - it might be interesting to see how close to your TDEE you end up being (also, AVOID all them horrible muller light yoghurts! grin)

Badvoc - Harcombe diet - is that the low carb one? See, I think the low carbing diets are pretty great really, mainly because due to their very nature you end up getting a decent amount of calories a day, cutting the evil sugar and diet shite.

Bonkey - If your allowance after the 15% deficit cut, and you have set your activity realistically - then YES, 2115 calories is what you need to eat every day to lose weight.

BonkeyMollocks Mon 28-May-12 14:49:43

Wow, I'm quite shocked at that!

I am also wondering if the reason that i get tired quickly is because I'm not eating enough, or pig out on shit because I'm so tired. One or the other.

I'm very active but everyday active, not purpose exercise iykwim.

I reckon I eat 1300 ish a day atm. Bring on the food grin

maryz yes, then both of my arms would fall off which would take me just below my target weight grin

Mindyourownbusiness Mon 28-May-12 15:41:07

Ah thanks Shirley - l have started to read back and some of the knots l've got my silly head into are now unravelling. I have worked out my net calories to be 2130 my 'in a coma' calories are 1464 or something. So far so good but now l have the problem (sorry high maintenance me grin) of the rules about what you actually can eat - can you make these calories up to your net amount from eating 4 packets of chocolate digestive biscuits [hopeful] one day if in a slovenly mood and then chicken and fish and salad the next or does it not matter what the calories are made up of as long as accurately measured?

tethersend Mon 28-May-12 15:44:38

Cheers, Shirley smile

Have decided to use the devil's own spewtum to feed little Shirl, so don't have to factor in extra bf calories.

I am already using MFP, but at about 10% of its capacity. It's set to 1500 calories a day at the moment, so have some maths to do <crippling fear> to work out what it should be. I am baffled by the 40/30/30 thing too, so will have a play with it. I hear what you're saying about not taking off the 15% yet, so will give it a couple of weeks. I remember eating loads of sugary stuff when DD1 was a baby just to keep awake- don't want to fall back into that trap.

Was just about to spunk sixty quid on SW, so will give this a go first- will be interested to know how you get on, madmomma...

TooImmatureTurtleDoves Mon 28-May-12 15:45:02

<also hopes to be able to eat 4 packets of chocolate digestives>

This diet is hard-going the day before payday. Luckily, I had a monster chicken in the freezer so I had roast chicken for dinner last night, chicken salad for lunch and have just snacked on a giant chicken leg. And I'm still hungry...and have 1000 calories left. The only things in the house to eat are bread, potatoes etc.

Maryz Mon 28-May-12 16:08:42

grin at the devil's sputum tethers.

<wanders over to b/f/feeding, singing ^I'm telling on you-ooooo^"

I have discovered almonds and raisins, I have tuna, quiche, salad, hummous and carrots.

And more icecreams blush

MinnieBar Mon 28-May-12 16:21:24

<lifts 2 stone DD2 (age 2, she's consistent) over head>

ShirleyKnot Mon 28-May-12 16:24:15

MYOB - "can you make these calories up to your net amount from eating 4 packets of chocolate digestive biscuits [hopeful] one day if in a slovenly mood and then chicken and fish and salad the next or does it not matter what the calories are made up of as long as accurately measured?"

grin! What do YOU think? You, WE, should all be aiming to be eating in a way that nourishes our bodies at least 80% of the time! I'm not saying you can't eat chocolate digestives (although watch those bad boys, they're 85 calories a pop and you can suddenly find you've eaten five and it's 425 calories and OH GOD I CAN'T HAVE ANY DINNER!) just that you should see them as an occasional thing, not a major food group! wink When I'm in a slovely mood I get a chicken shish kebab - God, it's like My Secret Shame round here - which clocks in at about 450 calories and at least I'm getting some protein and some salad in me.

Tethers- HAHA @devilsputum. OK, then you can stay. grin Eat at your maintenance TDEE to get into the swing of it. Don't worry about your macros yet, just get the calorie load right first.

TooImmature - It's just planning really, but I totally know what you mean! Isn't it awful that the cheapest stuff to buy is the WORST stuff for us? Don't worry too much <repeats self> about your macros yet, and while I don't eat very much white pasta/rice/potatoes if that's all I had in the cupboard then I would certainly be eating it! Can you do baked potatoes with tuna or beans or something? Or potato wedges in some olive oil with some of the chicken?

I do feel the need to say again that this isn't a quick-fix, lose 7lbs in a month WOE. I've been reading some threads on MFP and people are pulling their hair out about gaining 7lbs or whatever in the first few weeks - I'm going to try and forestall that now byu telling you all that you will probably gain a couple of pounds in these first weeks, but to stick with it as those Low calorie diets might mean you can lose a bit for the summer, but it'll all pile back on in the autumn with a few of it's mates for good measure!

TooImmatureTurtleDoves Mon 28-May-12 16:48:39

That's ok, Shirley, I was taking the bf-cake diet a bit too literally so this is actually a reduction in calories for me! blush So am still secretly hoping for the 7lb-in-a-week weightloss... grin Anyway, I am stuck because bf and dieting don't really mix so going for a super-low-cal diet is out for me. In the end I found some Special K (well, the Co-op version) and scoffed that, leaving myself 700 calories for dinner. I shall be having something involving chicken and potatoes for that. I still have 104 carb grammes to eat so that'll be ok.

I'm Frowsty on MFP, add me please?

Alibabaandthe40nappies Mon 28-May-12 19:32:49

I have got 1400 calories left to eat - WTF??

<orders Chinese>

Careful with Special K. I used to eat it and then wonder why I was ravenous and thirsty in 30 minutes. It's v high carb/GI

ShotgunNotDoingThePans Mon 28-May-12 20:13:38

I've decided to SAFTS smile for this week, stick to my TDEE and see what happens.
Bad news is TDEE is 1800 cals - good news is I have 300 left today!

Not feeling hungry at all as I've just had a big portion of chicken pie, but I think I'll have a baked spud before bed.

I feel as if a lot of stuff is coming back to me - I also used to drink loads of water, never seen without a bottle for years, would drink it over tea or coffee when in people's houses blush. Was thin. I then had a bad stomach bug, couldn't face it swilling around inside me and never got back into the habit.

And what I've eaten today is just the same as when I was sugar free and thin, same time as the water thing.
I used to aim to eat a good dose of protein plus brown carbs and veg with every meal, no white carbs or sugar in any form (even honey or agave syrup), then a baked spud for supper. It was all about balancing your blood sugar to keep your mood level and avoid depression. For sugar addicts.
Fell off that wagon and gained 2 1/2 stone.

D'you reckon I could fit in a fitness sesh tonight? Like the look of Shirl's heavy lifting. Might try next time I'm in the gym.

ElvisJesusAndCocaCola Mon 28-May-12 20:23:21

I've added Toby, foosty and frowsty as friends. My MFP name is the same as my username here. Too long to type. Though not as long as this explanation. <ironic>

Am doing fairly well, though perhaps concentrating a bit too much on the numbers rather than the macros - cheesecake yesterday, ice cream today - though Shirley did say numbers first, macros later!

This is such a revelation - off to download the ebook recommendation. Thanks to whoever posted the link (Knitknack I think).

TobyLerone Mon 28-May-12 20:23:23

Shite. I'm over by 31 calories. Today is a rest day, to be fair. But still, it's a bit annoying.

Ah well. Tomorrow's another day.

ShirleyKnot Mon 28-May-12 20:27:42


I went and did body combat after work. My hair is still wet with sweat. <gorgeous>

I tried quinoa tonight. I've never cooked it before but it's not complicated and I had it with some chorizo and sun dried tomatoes. It was delicious and quite high in protein. [yay face]

ShirleyKnot Mon 28-May-12 20:30:03

31 calories is NOTHING at all!

Please don't feel bad, I often go over by up to 100 - it's really not a big deal.

Mindyourownbusiness Mon 28-May-12 20:32:00

Oh cheers Shirl hmm I wont shoot the messenger though and will try and only eat a couple of choccie digestives at a time and only as a special treat.

<wanders off muttering >

ShirleyKnot Mon 28-May-12 20:33:59


Mindyourownbusiness Mon 28-May-12 20:39:53

<shoots self instead>

ledkr Mon 28-May-12 20:41:00

Im still struggling to eat enough which seems weird for a fat bird grin I must admit i do like the diet drinks at night as it stops me drinking wine.

Thanks Maryz and shirl for the concise explainations. so basically its eat more cals but mostly made up of healthy/wholesome choices.I can manage that i think.

I do lots of low weight reps but might try the higher ones next time.

I am very nervous of over eating after years of diets but it makes sense of all the times ive tried sw and ww and lost about half a pound (a good shit really) when i knew id hardly eaten a thing hmm

TobyLerone Mon 28-May-12 20:45:53

Yeah, but I wanted a gin and tonic tonight I know. Tomorrow is gym day again, and I will go at it bastard hard to allow me booze tomorrow night make up for today grin

Maryz Mon 28-May-12 20:53:19

I am settling down to my 6th meal of the day.

I have a tub of hummus, some ryvita cheese biscuits, some carrot sticks and a glass of smoothie.

I am not hungry at all and I am under by about 100 today, even after this lot.

I'm having a few problems with entering some of my foods though so my diary is a little sketchy. A lot of the Irish brands have inaccurate figures, and only calories, so I now have a spreadsheet to fill in my regular foods and will enter them in mfp tomorrow when I have time.

I feel like I have loads of energy - I have spent time in the garden, investigated and sorted the weights (and de-cat-smelled the garage, which took quite a few calories, I reckon). So no proper scheduled exercise, but a lot of activity.

TooImmatureTurtleDoves Mon 28-May-12 21:02:02

Right, am getting my Shred DVD back from my mum tomorrow. <quails> Can't really use the C section as an excuse 11.5 weeks on. Maybe this time I'll make it further than Level 2 Day 2.

I have 200 calories left today but no fat grammes. I think I'll eat canned peaches.

What can I put on toast that's not as fatty as Anchor Lighter Spreadable? Butter derivatives are looking to be my downfall.

TooImmatureTurtleDoves Mon 28-May-12 21:04:01

Oooh, that's a point, Maryz. I hoovered and mopped the kitchen floor - that's exercise too!

Maryz Mon 28-May-12 21:04:47


I don't like butter thank goodness - pregnancy put me off it.

Or do what my old granny did and dip the crusts into a cup of tea grin

grumpleteaser Mon 28-May-12 21:29:41

I'm 3 days in and doing well and feeling full. Just measured myself rather than weighing and marked it on calendar.

Oooh I also discovered lidl 70% chocolate! Cheaper than branded choc and just and nice. In my lidl they have plain, nutty, or with orange or raspberry!
Lidl is my favourite place right now!

I'm still 200 cals below my BMR, and I'm so full! sad
<goes off to rummage through fridge>

knitknack Mon 28-May-12 21:47:20

It's weird eating so much!! But at the same time I'm craving sugar like a mad thing (sugar addict, trying to break it) so I'm stuffed, have eaten loads, but am dying for a sweet cup of tea or something! Feel very 'clean' though, and much happier smile

quirkychick Mon 28-May-12 22:05:42

I'm off to find something more to eat. I have 500 cals left, but have walked loads today. Mum of 2 with buggy, by the time I drop one at school and another at pre-school I have walked for about 45mins quite fast (we are often running late blush).

I'm a big fan of weights, I originally read Strong Women Stay Young: there's a website too, which was originally a study with women using highest weight possible 2 x 8-12 reps but slowly.

The other thing about weights is in Arthur de Vaney's book on paleo diet, quite extreme low carb but bear with me... his weights are supposed to use both fast twitch and slow twitch muscles. Start with low weight and do 15reps slowly, counting to 5 for each one. Then up to a middle weight and do 9-10 reps fast, counting to 2 for each one. Lastly, choose higher weight and do 4-5 reps fast, but build up to this gradually.

Sorry no links I'm on my phone.

TobyLerone Mon 28-May-12 22:13:08

Why isn't the sexing in the MFP exercise database? grin

tethersend Mon 28-May-12 22:17:44

How many calories does it take to pull your nightie down when he's finished? grin

Maryz Mon 28-May-12 22:24:54

I'm assuming it would be difficult to assess the average number of calories used - would you measure per session, per hour (or minute hmm), would there be different calorie expenditure for males and females etc

<mind boggles>

Alibabaandthe40nappies Mon 28-May-12 22:30:57

Shotgun - have you read Potatoes not Prozac? It is an interesting book if you are a sugar addict!

I'm just tucking into some greek yoghurt with nuts and apricots and a bit of honey. Yum yum. Still going to be about 500 calories under for the day...

TobyLerone Mon 28-May-12 22:31:32

Hmmm. I can see the issues.

grin tethers

MinnieBar Mon 28-May-12 22:31:53

Knitting isn't in the exercise database either (I know how to have a good night in, oh yes)…
Hideously over yesterday (damn you M&S mini-bites in a tub thingies) but actually under today, rah! Although apparently I've not had any potassium today confused Do I need some??!

ShotgunNotDoingThePans Mon 28-May-12 22:33:05

Don't know, but I've just finished a sesh of Brazil Butt Lift smile!
MFP reckons it's 188 cals, so I'll take that.
It's now telling me I have a calorie deficit, but I don't think I need to make that up, do I? I'm not aiming for the cut amount, just the TDEE atm.

ShotgunNotDoingThePans Mon 28-May-12 22:37:59

Ali, that's the very book I was talking about! Came across it in Waterstones one day about 12 years ago and it started me on a healthy eating road, lasted about 6 years on and off. Back on now, obvs. smile

I am astounded that all you people are coming in under calorie allowance.
I really should track properly, but I'm sure I eat around 2300 cals most days with no bother at all. blush

Alibabaandthe40nappies Mon 28-May-12 22:52:14

seventh - the weekend was a different story. I was 100 over one day, and 200 over yesterday!

ShotgunNotDoingThePans Mon 28-May-12 22:58:24

Erm as I said earlier, had a birthday on Friday and had at least 2,500 for 3 days! Didn't really feel like I was having a massive blow-out, either.

madmomma Tue 29-May-12 06:47:14

Thanks shirley. I'm going to do it as if I'm maintaining (ie with extra 'healthy extras'). I couldn't stick to it otherwise

bucketbetty Tue 29-May-12 07:36:03

I'm upset. I'm still bloody stuck at my usual weight. I went down now I ve gone back up. I've been eating too much I think. I've stuck to my recommended calories and exercising nearly every day. I want to scream. I feel slimmer though. Maybe I should start measuring rather than weighing?

WynkenBlynkenandNod Tue 29-May-12 07:46:47

Bucketbetty, someone who knows why they are talking about will be along but I think not losing and slightly gaining is normal at the beginning whilst you're body sorts itself out. The idea being that eating less than you need causes it to go into starvation mode and screws your metabolism. Definitely take measurements.

I had an ok first day and was pretty much bang on my calorie allowance, a bit over with carbs and fat and under with protein. DH shopped this week though and I'm missing a lot of food in the fridge that I'd usually have so it will be me doing the next shop !

grumpleteaser Tue 29-May-12 07:48:01

betty I think (from reading all the info Shirly has provided) that a weight gain in the early weeks is normal as your metabolism sorts itself out.
I measured and didn't weigh for this reason as I don't wanna be stood on the scales screaming!
Stick with it and see what happens!

Maryz Tue 29-May-12 08:28:43

If you read Shirley's posts up the top (and a lot of her posts since), she would tell you to saftfs (stay away from the fucking scales).

The idea of this isn't to lose weight in a week - in fact if you lose weight in a week there is something wrong.

It will take a few weeks for the body's metabolism to get back to normal, non-starvation-mode, and in that time it is perfectly normal to put on some weight. Added to that (this is my theory) it is fucking hot, so we are all retaining water atm which can affect weight.

The idea is to only measure for the first few weeks - you can weigh once a week if you want to, but if you put on a few pounds but lose an inch at your waist, and feel full of energy and able to exercise it is working. The pounds don't matter, the inches, the energy, and the getting your metabolism up and running is what matters.

Do read the links - we have all been programmed since teenagerhood to think "reduce calories, reduce fat and protein, starve ourselves, we will lose weight". This is a whole new way of thinking.

<convert emoticon>

I am not finding it easy to eat so much breakfast! However, I know from past experience that I stay on plan much better if I eat a big breakfast. I'm on 2300 calories a day as I'm breast feeding and it is hard to eat so much!

I am mainly finding that I don't eat enough protein (no surprise really, I don't eat much meat), still I am not focussing on that too much, more looking at how much better I am eating in general.

minnie if only sitting and knitting counted as exercise!

Maryz Tue 29-May-12 08:52:17

Yes I'm struggling with breakfast.

ds2 who is 14 is benefiting, however, as I am cooking him bacon and egg every morning grin

ShirleyKnot Tue 29-May-12 09:23:48


One thing though betty - if you're exercising everyday I am presuming you have chosen the appropriate activity level on the calorie calculator AND have been eating back any additional calories to bring your net cals up to your BMR?

Anyway, you probably WILL gain a little weight on the scales - and even on your measurements while your body goes through it's ususal..."OMG!! Calories! Lay them down as fat before the famine returns!" thing...just give it time.

I have been reading a very interesting thread over on MFP about people who have been eating at their TDEE less cut and not losing anything. It seems that for some people - especially those who have been on VLCD for a while - they have to eat EVEN MORE, right up to their TDEE maintenance amount in order for their bodies to start to "trust" them again. It really is so fascinating, and sad how much damage we do to ourselves. sad

I'm really starting to love my body - DYKWIM? I want to nuture it and look after it, rather than feeling frustrated and angry with it. I think this is a good sign!

Mindyourownbusiness Tue 29-May-12 09:31:14

MARYZ grin

I would like to raise that to SAFTFB(astard)S. I have put mine away as I have them on the bathroom floor and get on them first thing every morning before getting showered and dressed. Trouble is they are ruling my life as depending on what they say sets my mood for the day. Usually utter despair grin.

So I put them in a dark place this morning [revenge] - ha ! - in the bottom of my bedding cupboard. I then did 100 sit ups and leg lifts for a count of 100 which I used to do every single day for years and have recently worked my way back up to gradually building up to a 100 of each.

Today I have drank a half a litre bottle of water so far and had a bowl of low fat greek yoghurt and mixed in some cinnamon , honey and oatbran.

TobyLerone Tue 29-May-12 10:06:10


Right. I have been very brave and put photos on MFP. I have also taken all my measurements and listed them on there so that I can keep track. I took loads of measurements! I have also filled in everything I am likely to eat today on MFP.

Today is gym day. I am feeling motivated and can't wait to finish work so that I can get there. IKWYM, shirl, about wanting to nurture your body. I am excited about this way of eating like I've never been excited about any diet. I just hope it works!

Well done for putting the scales in the naughty corner, MYOB grin

foosty Tue 29-May-12 12:21:41

Toby - you look fab - you're fattest ever is what I want to look like when I'm done! envy

I was excellent this morning and did Shred level 3. That's THREE ... it was bloody hard but fantastic. Then I did 10 minutes of Pilates for my abs

<polishes halo>

however, didn't get around to having breakfast - in fact I'm kind of struggling to decide what to have for it. any ideas? I've been low carbing so am used to having eggs but would quite like to get my carbs in at this time of the day, I think

Question - yesterday and today my exercise calories have taken my daily calories up to 2200 or thereabouts - am I really meant to eat that many? Or do I stop at my usual TDEE (about 1900)?

foosty Tue 29-May-12 12:22:14

* your

before the grammar police get me

TooImmatureTurtleDoves Tue 29-May-12 12:23:31

I'm excited too - I feel much healthier. It is payday, hurray, so I am about to head off to Tesco to do a monster shop of yummy healthy food like full-fat yoghurt and lots of fish. Mmm.

Darn, I keep forgetting to take my measurements! I could try on a too-tight skirt in a week and see what's happened instead.

foosty Tue 29-May-12 12:24:23

oh, and hello to all my new MFP friends! Felt VERY popular there with 4 friend requests! That never happens on Facebook.

TobyLerone Tue 29-May-12 12:31:41

I'm only 5'3", foosty. I weigh 11st 11.5. That makes my BMI waaaay higher than it ought to be! If I were taller, maybe I could carry it off.

Well done for doing Shred Level 3. I have owned the Shred DVD for over a year, and have never even seen Level 3 blush

foosty Tue 29-May-12 12:38:30

You know, I'm just about the same as you, hovering around 11st 9 - 11st 12 most of the time. If I look like that then maybe it's not as bad as I thought! The thing is, pre-DC I was always a size 10, maybe a 12. I didn't worry about my figure too much, just took it for granted. I barely did any exercise. Now it's all about the exercise for me! My tummy is just a nightmare, and when I see photos of myself I can't bear it. 3 kids have wrecked me.

<shakes fist at 3 year old ds>

Level 3 was tough, but good tough. I've been going to circuits twice a week for a few months and it was no harder than that. Those classes are for an hour so maybe that's why I managed 3 without too much trouble! But now I can't go back down to 2, or 1, can I? grin

TobyLerone Tue 29-May-12 12:52:33

You know the weirdest thing? People my height/weight seem to be a size 16 or so. I'm a 12, sometimes a 14. It's so strange, how different we all are.

This site is endlessly fascinating to me. It also helped me to realise that I don't look as bad as I thought. Although I still look bad to me, IYKWIM.

I hate my double chin, my ham-arms, my belly and the fact that my thighs now touch at the top for the first time in my life. So I WILL look better soon!

And no, you can't. If you can do Level 3, keep doing it grin

I actually find level 3 easier that level 2. You can always up the weights and go back even to level 1 if you fancy a change smile

ShirleyKnot Tue 29-May-12 13:31:23

MYOB - Good job on the scale banishment! grin

Tobe! - You already look brilliant!

A word about breakfast - it's really important to get eat something as soon as you can in the morning. I think it wakes your body up and that bit of fuel first thing can definitely fire you up for the day. I've always found it quite difficult to eat before I leave for work, time constraints and just not feeling hungry (although I wake up STARVING these days) combined and gave me a real MEH feeling about it.

As I've said before, I like a protein shake, sometimes with a banana blended up or other soft fruits - but if you don't want or have any shakes then a smoothie made with milk, full fat natural (or flavoured) yoghurt, soft fruits, nut butters, flaxseed or whatever you want to shove in is also a great option. There are BUNDLES of recipes on the internet! (And I have heard that you can freeze the banana and bung it in to get a more "ice cream/milkshake" texture)

Porridge is a good option, no added sugar muesli, weetabix (love it). I avoid Special K and their ILK as they are basically bowls of sugar.

I LOVE the look of these refrigerator oatmeal breakfasts

While I was low carbing I tried kippers for breakfast one morning, that was a pretty rough day, but I love kedgeree and that's great for a weekend breakfast.

If you can't face any of these options then you can't go far wrong with a slice of granary/wholemeal bread and some peanut butter.

Try and get something down you within an hour of getting out of bed and then you can have something more substantial a bit later.