As we go through this painful journey together

(986 Posts)
lavandes Sun 10-Feb-13 21:24:05

As we go through this painful journey together we share, cry, scream and shout but we never judge, we know that there is always someone to listen. We always remember our precious children who will never be forgotten and will live on forever in our hearts.

lavandes Sun 10-Feb-13 21:26:04

Always remembering our beloved Richard, loved and missed so much every minute of every day xx

lavandes Sun 10-Feb-13 21:27:16

If someone can start a thread with a poem please feel free. xx

chipmonkey Sun 10-Feb-13 21:34:26

Remembering Sylvie-Rose 16/8/11 - 4/10/11, my beautiful girl. Love you always xxx

My5boysandme Sun 10-Feb-13 21:43:58

Remembering my Darling Dexter 21/06/12-24/09/12 missing you more with every beat of my heart, love you til the end of the time xxx

Remembering my precious Sterre, 20th June 2011. Love, like starlight, never dies! X

SaintVera Sun 10-Feb-13 23:30:38

Remembering my beautiful boy, Sean. 16.4.96 - 9.7.12. Extraordinary, hilarious, unique, severely disabled, deeply loved. I will never stop missing you.
Thank you Lavandes.

Thanks for the new thread Lavandes. xxxxx

lavandes Mon 11-Feb-13 08:06:59

Morning ladies xx

I am sorry the name of this thread is bereavement. That was not my intention I am rubbish at this I have asked mumsnet to correct it for me.

Morning girls xx

Wouldn't worry about it at all Lavandes. It took me ages before I sussed out how to start a new thread....and I usually do it wrong even when I realise how to LOL. MNHQ will help you sort it I'm sure. The important thing is you started it for us - would hate it to just disappear xxxxx

SaintVera Mon 11-Feb-13 08:27:58

I would hate it to disappear too. I feel very lonely sometimes in my real life

It cant and wont dissapear love - dont worry. We have all stuck together for too long to let that happen. I can feel lonley in a room full of people in real life so I know just what you mean xxx

chipmonkey Mon 11-Feb-13 11:47:23

It will never disappear, Vera. Someone will always carry the fire!smile

lavandes Mon 11-Feb-13 13:07:17

Mumsnet have sorted it, I wanted the thread to to say that we are all in this together and we will always support eachother. smile

chipmonkey Mon 11-Feb-13 13:08:30

Well done, lavandes!

Perfect title Lavandes xxxx

frasersmummy Mon 11-Feb-13 15:26:57

Hi all.. I have been really awol for a long long time now... I meant to get back to posting on the previous thread but there were so many new people and so many on going discussions that I didnt know where to start

so I thought I would wait for the new thread to show my face again

Anyway .. Thinking of my firstborn little boy Fraser.. stillborn almost 9 year ago now ...

How the hell can it be 9 years .. how??? I cant believe its anything like that long since I said hello and goodbye to my little boy

Life has changed so much since then

chipmonkey Mon 11-Feb-13 15:31:25

Hi, fm!

Good to see you FM - have missed you. xxx

lavandes Mon 11-Feb-13 16:19:16

Hi fm so good to hear from you. You were one of the lovely ladies who helped me so much in the beginning. I will always be grateful for that xx

Remembering James, my first born who died 03/07/2012. Aged 22 years.

I love you so much my beautiful funny stroppy boy. I miss you the same xxx

Helyantha Mon 11-Feb-13 20:13:08

For my glorious DS3, bouncing in his Tigger suit in heaven. Loved always x

For my precious sons xxxx

Remembering my gorgeous little red-headed Mia, full of smiles and love. I am so proud of you, my darling. xx

Morning girls xx

frasersmummy Tue 12-Feb-13 10:44:17

morning everyone.. Ross is with grandad today and I took the day off to catch up with housework/watch a movie/ chill

But realised that today is mum and dads wedding anniversay- well would have been so I am taking Dad to the cemetary... for those of you who dont know Frasers garden is right next to Mums. Its nice because I feel Mum is looking after Fraser (though it should be me) but on the other hand it feels like I cant just go "see mum" or go "see Fraser" for one one time

I am going to buy my boy a new windmill before we go ... last time I was there his bright red and yellow windmill was bleached pure white by the sun

I find as the years go by I visit Frasers garden less and less.. it used to bring me comfort.. it doesnt any more. So today I dont feel like visiting .. really bad I know but I know I can say that on here and not be judged
But I cant go visit mum's garden without visiting my boy..

I have just read that back and it makes hee haw sense hopefully you get some of what I mean

My lads are next to my Grandma & Grandad. I know what you mean FM - xx

Cant get Jamie Bulger out of my head today. I watched his Mum being interviewed yesterday. Her eyes were 'hollow', emotionless and 'dead' - only another bereaved Mum would have even noticed that or recognised her own as the same. She struggled to not lose her temper. She said that one of her sons (I think he is about 19/20) has never travelled alone on a bus or train and she isin't going to allow it either. Some people on my facebook were saying thats ridiculous - NO ITS NOT!!

Rosduk Tue 12-Feb-13 12:40:01

Remembering my baby boy Thomas died 23/11/12. You should have been due next week. We miss you x

Morning. I didn't really take part in the other thread much, but I'm adding my details here regardless as I need your help today please. I am mum to Beatrice Primrose who died on 24th October 2012 aged 13 months.

My best friend, and I don't use the term lightly, she has been a rock to me throughout the entire 10 years I have known her, is 35 weeks pregnant with her first baby. She text me yesterday to inform me that she has been admitted to hospital with pre-eclampsia and her labour will be induced by Wednesday of next week at the latest (36 weeks pregnant).

Now, a real friend, a good friend would head straight to the hospital to spend time with their friend when they must be scared (first baby, not completely organised) and also bored. But oh no, not me. All I can think of is myself. The last time I was on the antenatal ward was at 36 weeks the night before Beatrice was born and I was told she was going to die. The last time I saw those midwives, was when I ventured back from SCBU for a couple of hours sleep in between holding my precious dd and crying for the future she wouldn't have. I don't think I can visit. I don't think I can be in that place again around all the pregnant women and the new babies who get to stay and live with their families.

My friend wouldn't ask me to visit. I text and said I would like to see her and she immediately said she would see if she could leave the ward to meet me for an hour. I hate that she is thinking of me. All her other friends will go to her bedside and offer her support the way a friend should, the way I would have done a couple of years ago.

And that is why I hate this bloody grief! It has turned me into a selfish, self-centered, monster. Some days I don't recognise the person looking back at me in the mirror, she can be so bitter and concerned only with herself and her feelings. I hate that version of me.

To top it off, I slept in the spare room last night as I was in a mess and didn't want to wake dh as he has to leave for work at 3am. Anyway, I woke to a text at 4am from dh begging me to go to the doctor as he is sick of hearing me cry every night. I am trying so hard, I promise. The GP has changed my tablets as my nightmares were getting so loud that my screaming was waking my other daughters up (aged 5 and 7), and I have asked the hospice for a counselor. I'm not sure what else to do when the tears come at night. I'm so tired of being me, a disappointing wife, failed mother and now terrible and unsupportive 'best' friend. I just feel like I don't belong here anymore.

MrsDeVere Tue 12-Feb-13 14:49:05

cup I couldn't go to visit any friends or family in any hospital for a few years after Billie died.
I felt bad about it too. Everyone understood because I was honest with them. I said how sorry I was and that I really did care but I was just impossible for me.

I made sure I was there for them in other ways.

Do you think you may have PTSD? The nightmares and flashbacks, the crying and anxiety are all symptoms.

Lots of bereaved parents suffer from PTSD and it can be treated.

You are not any of those horrible things you call yourself. You may not be superwoman but you are doing your best. If you really were the selfish person you think yourself to be, why would you care?


Thanks Mrs I'm sorry you couldn't visit a hospital either, but I'm glad I'm not the only one, if that makes sense?

I want to care, but then I worry I just don't care enough or I'd drag myself out of my funk and get my arse to the hospital to support my friend. The fact that she is supportive enough not to even ask me makes me question my own strength of character.

I've not even considered PTSD. Perhaps dh is right and it's time to head back to the GP...?

My5boysandme Tue 12-Feb-13 15:54:33

I can't go to the hospital Dexter died in either. I had to get any hospital appointments transferred to another hospital.
I've started having panic attacks these last few weeks, usually at bedtime. My dh wants to go it with his friends on Saturday night(he's not been out since Dexter died) he wants me to ask my mum to come sit with me, as he won't get in til 1-2am. But she would only stay til 10ish and the panic attacks are when I go to bed. I don't want to stop his going out, but I hate how dependent I've become on him. I also can't sleep without the light on in the bathroom, as soon as it gets pitch black the panic sets in. I think I may have to get 1 of the boys to sleep in with me and ope for the best.

MrsDeVere Tue 12-Feb-13 16:43:17

cup and My5*
I had my two youngest DCs at home just so I could avoid going into a hospital.
I could manage the GP to see the MW but no more than that.

The MW was kind but she didn't really get it. Until she made a phone call to the hospital during my appointment. I began to have a physical reaction, sweating, breathing rapidly, getting agitated..just because she was talking to a doctor.
She got it after that.

Cup it has taken me years to be able to deal with hospitals on any level and I have had lots of help. I am currently supporting a friend who is having chemo at the same hospital Billie was in.

There is NO way I could have done that even a year ago. Billie has been gone seven years in April.

There is hope but you need help darling. This is too big a thing to deal with on your own.

My5 that sounds really scary for you sad. I use valium for that sort of anxiety. Sometimes you need a bit of help x

frasersmummy Tue 12-Feb-13 17:04:24

cupoftea you are not a self centred monster.. you are a bereaved mummy

Of course you cant face the mat unit .. your little girl passed away less than 4 months ago... your grief is very new and very very raw

I hate to say but the way you are feeling now is completely normal.. yes speak to your gp see if they can give you something to take the edge off but it will hurt for a long while to come sweetheart

We are all on the same crappy path.. its a horrid one to walk but it does get easier as time goes on .. You dont get tripped up by as many things as you do in the early days. We do all stumble and we are all here to pick each other up

I know you feel anything like strong right now but you have made it through xmas and new year without your little girl... probs your worst festive season ever but you made it through and here you are thinking of your friend and trying to find ways to support her whilst coping with your own grief

You are doing soo well so far dont beat yourself up .. one step at a time honey and do whatever feels right for you ...

Thank you ladies.

frasersmummy I agree that my loss is recent in the grand scheme of things, but I don't get that impression from people around me. They all seem to expect the same of me as they did before Beatrice was born. I still have deadlines and responsibilities to meet at work, my family have all but given up contact with me and I hardly hear from them. I had a horrible run in with a parent at my dd1's school a couple of weeks ago that reduced me to tears- I was aghast that the head teacher, chair of governors and this parent had thought I had the energy and mental capability to go and face an interrogation. (Which I thought was going to address the parent's child bullying mine, but was actually a forum for her to berate my use of Facebook and for the Chair of governors to give her opinion on it too...) So you see, I still think a lot is expected of me when I sometimes want to throw my hands up in the air and scream, 'She's only been dead 3 months! Leave me the F**k alone!!)

<And breathe> Phew, that was cathartic!

travellingwilbury Tue 12-Feb-13 17:40:34

hello all , another one that has been awol . sorry x

cup , I also struggle with people in hospital or any medical crisis .
what people want is a hand to hold and someone to tell them they will be ok . I lost the ability to do that the day harry died . she sounds like a very good friend , she gets it , you will be there for her when she is home ans she sounds like she knows that .

Hiya Mrs D - I wanted to have Tom at home but they wouldn't allow it - and luckily they didn't - he had a hard time getting here. I totally understand you wanting home births - hospital is a scary place after the loss of a child xxxxxx

TW - great to see you here love xxx

travellingwilbury Tue 12-Feb-13 18:09:15

I wanted to have mine at home after harry , had the whole thing set up , drugs ready in the fridge abs pack upstairs but he was the size of a small hippo so I had to go to hospital and have a section . I coped but I hated being there and came home after two days .

zeno Tue 12-Feb-13 20:46:31

Another awol here. Feeling solidarity with you all.

I haven't visited dd's grave in 6 months. Can't bear it. No comfort there. No grave marker done yet and it's been four years.

Also feeling you all re hospitals. We had to go to the same hospital where dd1 died to bring dd2 into our world just weeks later. Mercifully blanked out by forgiving memory.

I hate going there, but every now and again we have to, past the room. Horrible.

SaintVera Tue 12-Feb-13 21:37:42

Hello ladies. cup in no way are you a failure. Grief seems to really chip away at self-esteem and self-worth. I feel pretty pointless most of the time. Low, low days. Just crap.

I used to be so hurt that other people just 'didn't get' my son's special needs and what it was to have a child with severe needs. I lost quite a few friends when I had DS. Now my SN parent friends just don't get my loss. They are drifting away, they don't call any more, I have to call them. And I don't have the energy. One of them contacted me on FB to tell me her news. She didn't even ask how I was doing. As if I am not even human.

It isn't so much living in limbo as in purgatory

twinklesunshine Tue 12-Feb-13 22:43:08

Cup my little boy died a year ago next month and I still cry myself to sleep most bigs. Some nights I get that hysterical that I have to get up again and spend the the night on the sofa watching tv to try and keep my mind off it. I have not seen my husband cry since we left the hospital when he died. Of course you are going to be upset, there is nothing you can do to stop it, it's just your emotions coming out and they have to come out somewhere. During the day there isn't always time for me to cry, I am that focused on getting through the day, and in bed I can kind of let it all go.

Your husband just feels really worried about you I am sure, and if he is grieving differently he may not understand the need to cry. We have got to the point where I spend so much time in tears that my husband doesn't even comfort me anymore, it's just expected that its what I am going to be like, and I am fine with that, it's my way of coping. You are doing your best and I have been following your posts and think you are coping really well under the circumstances.

As for going to the hospital, of course it's hard. I haven't been able to bring myself to go back to the one my little man died at. My friends little boy was admitted with bronchitis recently and I wanted to go, but I just couldn't. You are not a bad friend, you just maybe need to put yourself first, and try not to worry about everyone else. If you were your friend you wouldn't expect you to come and visit, and she sounds like a lovely friend who will bend over backwards to make you feel comfortable, and make things as easy as possible for you. You are not selfish at all, just sad. I have become really brutal about telling people what I can and can't cope with, to save my own sanity.

As frasersmummy said, it will hurt like this for a long time, but even though I have just described myself as a hysterical mess, I am actually coping much better than I ever dreamed possible, but only because I have to put myself first. At the beginning I was forcing myself into all sorts of upsetting situations, baby showers, birthday parties, school runs, now I only go to what I feel up to, and try and keep away from things that make me feel even worse.

You are doing the best you can under the most awful circumstances, give yourself a little break xxxxx

Morning girls - snow falling again here in Lancashire!

chipmonkey Wed 13-Feb-13 09:06:55

shabs, a lot of people also seem to have forgotten that James Bolger's parents also had a stillborn daughter before they had James. So she actually lost both of her children within a few short years. I would totally get why she didn't let her son out alone on public transport.

I only heard that a few days ago - so very sad. I watch her on TV and all I can see is her eyes. They look tired and emotionless and how she tries so hard to keep her voice even and controlled - when I bet she would love to shout and swear. This is a cruel world xx

chipmonkey Wed 13-Feb-13 09:36:06

Sorry, posted and ran!
cup I think I would not have been able for that attack even before Sylvie-Rose died. And over a year later, I still wouldn't be able for it. And I don't know how anyone thought you could cope with it.
And although I have visited the hospital where Sylvie-Rose died, I can't face the one where she lived. I never want to set foot in the place again and I hope to God none of the boys have dps/dws who want to give birth there.

Rosduk glad you found us again xx

frasersmummy Wed 13-Feb-13 14:26:29

Good afternoon from snowy Glasgow

cup is possible you are trying to hard to put a brave face on when you are around others

They see you "as really strong and coping really well" that always made me want to scream I am not strong I am falling apart cant you see that you idiots...

I know its obvious to anyone who has walked in our shoes but sometimes others need it spelled out to them

SaintVera Wed 13-Feb-13 15:18:13

just fallen apart in front of DH. Poor man, I feel for him having to put up with me. I feel I don't want to keep going like this. Every minute is a struggle and hardly anyone contacts me. I don't think I am such a bad person, but I feel as if I have done something so dreadful to deserve this hell

whiteandyelloworchid Wed 13-Feb-13 22:18:51

remembering my beautiful ds, not a day goes by when i don't think about you, don't miss you, wish so much you were here in my arms healthy and well
what fun we would have, so many things i wanted to do with you, take you on holiday, teach you to swim, see your face lit up at christmas, see you and dd together do arts and crafts with you, but just hug you and kiss you and love you all the time, snuggle up in bed with you in the mornings

your sister misses you alot, she found it very very tough, she's made you a valentines heart, shes painted red, orange and yellow, with your name inside, tomorrow we will be bringing it down to the churchyard for you, to place beside your grave
i have no idea if you really will be able to see it, but i hope you can
she loves you very much, as i do and your daddy does, and your grandparents and aunts and uncles

i'm struggling without you, i try and take each day as it comes but its hard, people around me just don't get how i feel, although a few precious few try very hard, and other not so nice people actually say things that make me feel worse, i try to avoid those

cannot believe it's almost a year, since you died in my arms, it was horrendeous watching you die before my eyes, while i and any drs were powerless to help you, all we could do was hold you and kiss you and love you.
i wish i could hold you again, i would never let you go.
hurt like hell to go into hospital and birth birth to you and leave carrying only a memory box with your footprints and handprints and a few of your things like name bands and blessing candles, it should have been you we were proudly taking home, you would have slept in with me and your daddy for the first six months, just like your sister did, you should have seen the size of her, when she was 6 and a half months and she filled the moses basket from head to toe, her head was actually touching the basket, and you dad had to say, come on, she really does need to go in her own room now, i kept her in with us, until she could fit in the moses basket anymore, and i would have kept you in with us for longer, i used to pull your sister out of the moses basket in the night and into our bed to feed and hug and often we would all sleep together, i would have definatley done that with you too
and pulled you in for a cuddle first thing in the morning, i used to do that to your sister and she always woke up smiling.

then when you would of have had to move rooms, i was going to decorate your room with dinosaurs.probably a greena and blue design

so so many things we have all missed out on, but the time we did have together will always remain so very very precious to me
i love you so much and i always will for the rest of my life

i worry about how i'm going to cope, and what the future will hold, i try not to think to much about the future, just to get through the days.
people say times a healer and i dearly hope thats true, as i'm scared to go through the rest of my life feeling this sad
but one year on, i'm not finding it much easier, people say the anniversarys are hard, i'm certainly finding that.

i feel so bad your heart did not develop, i feel it is my responsibilty, as i was the one that grew you, the best drs in the country have told me its not my fault,and this was a random chance event, but in my heart i will always feel like i've let you down, i really hope you don't feel like i have

i love you so much, my headaches and my heart weighs a ton, and sometimes i struggle to even catch my breathe, and i feel like i cannot breathe

i just want you to know how very very much i love you

love you forever baby

love mummmy xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

chipmonkey Thu 14-Feb-13 00:21:07

That's the thing, white, when you lose a baby, you lose all the plans you had for them.
I was talking to hunkermunker on FB a few days before Sylvie-Rose died and she had given my the name of someone who might be able to help get Sylvie-Rose to latch on. I actually said "I've spend 6.5 years breastfeeding and I don't intend to stop now." and then a few days later I was pouring all my store of breastmilk down the sink. She never drank it and never did latch on properly and now I can't believe I got myself so worked up about breastfeeding. Which is supposed to help prevent SIDS.
And her room was going to be pink, white and green.sad
What would she have liked? Would she have liked Disney princesses or would she have been a tomboy, having four big brothers? I barely got any time with her.

whiteandyelloworchid Thu 14-Feb-13 00:49:33

Hi chip, yes I do that too, I wonder what ds would have enjoyed doing, would he be a gentle type of boy or more rough n tumble, I guess I imagine him being more on the gentle side, with having a older sister, I imagine them playing sylvanians and with dolls and things.

I wonder what would he have been like at school ? Would he go to college or uni, what sort would he do

Would he het married, have children how many? What would he call them

I can't understand why so many parents try n tell there children what to do in life. When they have the wonderful opportunity to watch this person develop their.own passions andninterests
And make their own way

I totally get what you mean,I look back on things I wasnworried about, and cannot believe I wasbeven stressed about them.
So many things seem so unimportant now
Hunker is ace isn't she, she helped me with bd my dd five and a half years ago, I was always asking for hunker,TomTom and moondog.

I.think you do sylvie rose proud, I really do. Your.full of kindness for.others

I've not been on here much as just be really really.struggling atm

whiteandyelloworchid Thu 14-Feb-13 00:51:38

TomTom? I typed or tried to tiktok

chipmonkey Thu 14-Feb-13 01:08:35

Yes, she's great! As is tiktok, who also occasionally goes under the name of a well-known satnav!grin

Morning girls xx

whiteandyelloworchid Thu 14-Feb-13 10:26:26

Yeah maybe that's her incognito name!

Wow my heart feels like it weighs 20 stone today.

whiteandyelloworchid Thu 14-Feb-13 10:26:50

Morning shabbs x

expatinscotland Thu 14-Feb-13 10:29:34

In loving memory of Aillidh, 19 June 2003 - 7 July 2012.

cortneyfigel95 Thu 14-Feb-13 10:58:55

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.


If you want to advertise some scam I suggest you go to the evil thing that is called FACEBOOK.

cortneyfigel95 Off you pop - have some respect next time please

Thank you MNHQ

sydlexic Thu 14-Feb-13 11:08:55

For me it is 14 years today, I promise you all it does get easier. X

sydlexic - are you a newbie on here? Or have you name changed?

I agree with you - it does get easier - or maybe time does change the way we feel. I am not sure 'how it works' but, for me, it has changed and is more gentle. There are still days though that it rears its ugly head and bites me on the rear end very hard.

sydlexic Thu 14-Feb-13 12:30:47

Name changed, my adult DD was reading my posts and I found it a bit intrusive.

Ahhhhhh - you have got me intrigued now LOL......

Kneecaps Thu 14-Feb-13 14:46:53

Hi all, lovely to see the new thread. Remembering my darling boy Seán who died on 18 June 2011 aged 6 in an accident at our home. His First Communion should be in May and the school is full of preparations - he would have loved the attention. Saw all his classmates coming out with Valentine's cards for their mothers - Jesus Christ the triggers are just everywhere

frasersmummy Thu 14-Feb-13 14:47:42

I think as the years go on being a bereaved parent just becomes part of who you are..

In the early days its like its all you are the pain is overhwelming and you cant/ dont want to think about anything else

As the months go by you realise you have to think of other things be it returning to work /raising the others in your family/ rebuidling your life

At first this hurts too much to contemplate but you do it and as you do it you start building new memories some good some bad, some happy some sad

And soon you have a whole range of experiences and memories from that horrid day onwards

Thats when it just becomes part of who you are.. something dreadful that happened but that you survived and moved forward from

You never forget and when you think back to that dark period there will always be pain.. its just you are now so much more than just a bereaved mummy

chipmonkey Thu 14-Feb-13 17:04:42

Oh, Kneecaps!sad My ds3 is making his communion this year. I will think of you and Seán on that day. Even now the communion dresses make me sad and Sylvie-Rose wasn't due to wear one for 7 years!

fm I do hope you're right. I feel at the moment that I am an outer shell of coping but am all bereaved Mum on the inside.

I had a huge cry at work today, I've no idea where it came from. I was with two senior colleagues and they both mentioned that I looked a bit down, and with that I just collapsed into uncontrollable tears. They were lovely and let me talk for half an hour or so, just nonsensical things that must have been playing on my mind. I felt a bit silly, but that's my own feelings, not their reactions, they were fab.
It's just hard to explain that it's nothing that's happened to make me cry, it's not a reaction to anything that's been said or done, it's just this thing called grief that overwhelms you from absolutely nowhere.
I'm going to see the GP tomorrow as my general anxiety and feelings of hopelessness are getting worse and I think I may need to adjust my meds.

whiteandyelloworchid Thu 14-Feb-13 21:10:02

i really hope that right too frasersmummy, i really do want to start building some happier memories soon.
do you think one year on, almost, is still early days?


thinking of getting one of these to hang on ds tree in the garden, but i'm a bit scared in case it could case a fire, what do you think, do you think it could cause a fire or am i beig overly paranoid ?

cup do you feel better for a cry? i cried and cried all night last night for hours, woke up with such swollen sore eyes, look a fright, but i actually feel a tiny bit better today
i wonder if it did me good

kneecaps your right the triggers are everywhere, absoulety everywhere

SaintVera Thu 14-Feb-13 21:57:21

Just written a whole load and pressed the wrong button. Like you white and cup, bad times and public tears. Antidepressants to start tomorrow (Citalopram with valium chaser). Thanks frasersmummy for words of hope. Much needed xxx

whiteandyelloworchid Fri 15-Feb-13 00:54:04

I really fancy a valium chaser st v

SaintVera Fri 15-Feb-13 09:33:47

Hi ladies. Last night I had my second dream in a week that Sean is in fact alive and it's all been a terrible mistake. In both dreams, he has swallowed poison and dies, but then comes back to life. In last night's dream, I was ecstatic and about to shout it out loud to everyone I knew that the doctor's have got it all wrong and he is going to live. I told myself everything would be different, now I had this second chance with him. I wouldn't waste a minute of our time together.

Then I woke up and felt utterly devastated.

Yesterday evening I learned that my cousin in America has had major surgery for throat cancer. He is only in his 40's. I remember such a healthy, all-American boy. I feel so sad for his parents

Helyantha Fri 15-Feb-13 09:34:22

Hello all. I'm closing on 7 years down the line (almost as long as DS3 had on this earth with us sad) and there are minutes/hours/days that I feel overwhelmed. It's oddly comforting though, as one of the things I was most worried about in the early days was that we would consign DS to a part of our lives that was gone, a chapter closed, a box that had a lid on & was never opened. That is absolutely not the case: he is a vibrant, real part of our daily lives, even though some people might find that discomfiting.
I think the rainbow crystal's lovely white. I'm sure it won't be a fire hazard.

Helyantha Fri 15-Feb-13 09:36:33

Oh SaintVera, dreams can be such a comfort & a trial all at the same time! So sorry to hear about your cousin - he will be in my prayers x

ResponsibleAdult Fri 15-Feb-13 10:08:21

Stumbled on this thread by accident.
You are all so brave and strong. Your love and kindness to each other is staggering. In tears reading and now replying. I have experienced bereavement on several occasions, but not of a child. I know I wouldnt cope as well as any of you, even those who say they arent coping.
Many years ago whilst in Intensive Care I experienced a respiratory arrest, ie stopped breathing. I had an out of body experience. All of the pain was gone, my body was free, the bright light was warm and welcoming and I felt at peace. I wasn't frightened or scared. I was one of the lucky ones and was resuscitated. It gives me great comfort to know I will be going on to a better place.
Your loved ones will always know they were loved. They are at peace and watching over you. They will welcome you when it is time to meet up. Keep them warm in your heart until then.

frasersmummy Fri 15-Feb-13 16:56:53

I honestly cant remember when I started to feel a bit brighter after losing Fraser.. I think it happens so slowly and in such small increments that you dont notice till one day you realise you can think of your dc and not burst into tears straight away.

The first year is just awful.. no other word for it. What I found was that once I got to a year down the line people tended to say oh its been over a year you need to put it behind you

Having lost my mum just over a year ago I can see why people would think this about any other bereavement .. after a year you do kinda move on and say well ok life goes on ...

But no-one should bury their own child its not natural. We have all carried and given birth to our kids .. you dont get over that in a year ..

Like I say I am not sure how long it took me to get over the very raw early grief.. I think it was a couple of years..maybe more

If you can be bothered to do some detective work you can find my posts from when this trhead started... I was still in a really dark place then .. I think it was about 6 years ago and Fraser would be 9 this year

And whoever mentioned cilatopram .. I would highly reccomend it ..

My5boysandme Fri 15-Feb-13 18:12:08

Went back to the doctors today, as they panic attacks are happening every night, I'm scared to go to sleep, as when I close my eyes that night keeps replaying over and over.

We've also got our meeting with the pathologist on Wednesday, which is on my mind constantly.

I've been prescribed diazepam and to see the doctor next Friday, I really hopes it helps sad

chipmonkey Fri 15-Feb-13 21:58:26

ResponsibleAdult thank you for that. I love to hear stories like

White I LOVE that ornament. I doubt if it would cause a fire, it would be in the shade mostly wouldn't it so would catch the light but not refract it.

oh Saint, what a lovely dream and how cruel to wake up! Reality is just too hard.sad

Cup, I'm actually glad you had that cry. I think it's no harm at all for people to know that you're not coping, they probably didn't realise how tough this has been. People truly don't realise how bad it is if it hasn't happened to them and, bless you, you probably looked as though you were bearing up wonderfully to them.

chipmonkey Fri 15-Feb-13 22:01:48

Sorry white, meant to say, our meeting after the PM was tough but not as bad as I'd expected. Everyone was really kind and although I felt kind of drained afterwards, I felt I'd got to ask a lot of questions that needed answering.

chipmonkey Fri 15-Feb-13 22:02:36

Not white, myfive! <<brainfail>>>

My5boysandme Fri 15-Feb-13 22:30:59

If you don't mind, what kind of things did you ask? I know we'll be expected to have questions, but I can't seem to think of any? Ok I have 1, but it seems silly, but all I really want to know is did he suffocate? I just keep thinking he had rolled on to his tummy and couldn't breathe and that's why he died sad

Morning girls xx

We had a consultation with Gareths heart specialist - he explained everything to us and then sent us a letter so we could digest it more.

With Matt there was an inquest which explained a lot of things to us.

I think I would make a list of questions and even write the answers down. Your head is all over the place in situations like this. I also agree with the feeling of being drained afterwards. I remember we all fell asleep the minute we got home because we felt so drained.

chipmonkey Sat 16-Feb-13 21:48:20

Myfive, I don't think much of what I asked would apply to your Dexter.

Sylvie-Rose was premature, she had a tiny hole in her heart, she was in my bed when she died. I had not given her her doses of iron as I had inadvertently melted the dosing dropper for the iron in the steam steriliser. I asked if any of these things had contributed to her death and was told no, we were unlucky.

I asked the neonatologist if she would have discharged her, she said she would have.

I mentioned that Sylvie-Rose had sneezed twice and had had a huge appetite the night before she died.

She said that had I turned up with her in A+E saying she had sneezed twice and had guzzled her milk, I would have been marched right back out the door.

Dexter was a fullterm healthy baby, who died in his cot. Myfive, I'm sure all you want to ask is why on earth did that happen?

whiteandyelloworchid Sun 17-Feb-13 08:42:15

My five, I was really anxious going back to the hospital for my sons post mortom results, main question I had was why, and various others that all boil down to why again, such as did anything I did cause it, how it have been prevented, how can we prevent it happening to any potential future children
All questions are really just a form of that question we will never know

I was told nothing we or anyne Could have done would have caused it and it was chance occurance

But I still worry, was it me doing artexing that caused it, was Ir because I was so ill during the pregnancy, was Ir because I sometimes woke up on my back not my left side. Was it because I eat peanuts

I hope it goes ok for you, it will be another hurrdle over, I think of things that way when I'm dreading some appointment or some such, another hurddle over
Thinking of you hoping for the best for the best for you

I'm finding it difficult to know what to say to dd when she cries about ds, I tend to just say I know dd, it is really sad, and hug her, sometimes I try and reassure her that she's still got her mum and dad, but sometimes I just don't know what to do or say to comfort her.

Afternoon girls xx

Beautiful 'spring like' day here - wall to wall sunshine. xx

myfive I also think our experience about Mia isn't really helpful to you apart from general things which have been prompted by white and chip here. To get the most out of your meeting, perhaps you could write down everything you remember of the days and hours beforehand about Dexter and your own actions, and any of the questions you have and send it to the consultant. That way, they can read and prepare any answers for your meeting, rather than perhaps saying that they will have to come back to you at a later date, when all you really want is the answers.

However, it is likely that there is nothing you could have done, nothing to pinpoint what would happen, and that you may come away with the answer that it was pure bad luck, and that they don't have any specific answers for you. And that is very, very hard. Mia had no signs of the very rare bacterial growth on her heart, just funny breathing, and when she was admitted, this was the only moment it could have been discovered, but it was seen to be pneumonia, which was considered a 'reasonable' diagnosis by two out of the three expert witnesses at her inquest.

whiteandyelloworchid Sun 17-Feb-13 18:19:10

i noticed on my mums calender, she has written "babywhite anniversary" on ds's birthday/anniversary of his death

it made me feel really sad and i thought why couldnt you have written birthday, rather than anniversary

am i being crazy to be upset over this?

Maybe a little. But I would also be grateful that she remembered babyorchid on that day, rather than leaving it blank... to me, that would be far worse.

whiteandyelloworchid Sun 17-Feb-13 20:47:09

yeah i did think that, at least shes remembered and she did also ask me what we are doing on that day etc and if i wanted her to get anything
so i supposed i shouldnt be upset that seh put anniversary rather than birthday
it is ds birthday and anniversary on the same day
i will try not to be upset over it

the inlaws have not even mentioned it and i doubt they will

chipmonkey Sun 17-Feb-13 23:58:21

white, I can see why you'd be hurt by that. But I suppose it is the anniversary of his birth as well as his death. It shouldn't be, of course, and that's the most hurtful thing of all.

Morning girls xx

White - my inlaws were the same - my boys were never mentioned by them again, after they died. sad

chipmonkey Mon 18-Feb-13 17:31:12


chipmonkey Mon 18-Feb-13 17:43:08

Aargh! The Android mumsnet app doesn't work on my phone! My granny never mentioned anyone who had died, ever again. I think she thought it was bad luck.

whiteandyelloworchid Mon 18-Feb-13 20:47:31

shabbs, sorry your inlaws never mention your boys, i find that rather shocking

my inlaws are the brush it under the carpet types
very much keeping up appereance types, all best china and alot of bullshit

ive got alot of anger towards them i suppose if im honest, don't suppose anger will do me much good though

chip thanks for the understanding

do you think i should ask my mum to change it to ds birthday, or shall i just let her be

dds been crying st school today about ds, just don't know how to comfort her except hug her and tell her how much we love her, had a massive chat with her tonight and she said to me "would you still love me mummy if i was deadsad"
feel terrible shes been through all this, it seems to have deeply affected her.

Both my in laws died a few years ago but they were of the belief that I shouldn't mention my sons names hmm their loss - not mine.

Very sadly my Mum only talks about the boys when I do - her Alzhaimers is slowly taking away her memories of them. She used to be my greatest comfort because she would talk for hours with me about them - bloody Alzhaimers is a heartless, cruel thing.

Have that awful 'something terrible is going to happen' feeling tonight....keep having to breath away panic attacks - not good at all.

chipmonkey Tue 19-Feb-13 01:39:29

Isn't it strange, shabs. The most awful thing has happened to us and yet we still feel panicky as if it's going to happen, as if it's in the future, not the past.

I'm sorry your Mum has to be prompted to mention the boys. I found out yesterday that one of my old teachers has Alzheimers. She was such an intelligent lady.sad

Morning girls xx

My Mum doesn't do too badly with it - the tablets she is taking seem, for now, to have stopped it in its tracks. My Dad has a problem with his jaw bone. He is almost 81 and has never, ever been poorly like he is now. Doctors dont know what is wrong but he has had two biopsys so far - he goes into hospital later this month so they can finally find out what it is. I am a real Daddy's girl and I think this is what is making me have the panic attacks and feel this awful feeling of panic and worry.

My Mums wise words? 'Oh love this is the natural way that life should happen....we are a pair of owd buggers and we all have to die of something!!' sad

whiteandyelloworchid Tue 19-Feb-13 10:14:11

sorry your mum isn't quite as able to talk to about the boys are she was, or that she only does it when prompted, it must have been wonderful to have someone that will sit on talk to you for hours about your lovely boys

i know its not the same, but when i meet up with a couple of friendsive made, that have both had stillborn babies, i know my ds wasnt stillborn,but because he died so shortly after he was born i find i related alot to people that have had stillbirths, anyway sorry im rambling, anyway when we meet up we just talk for hours and hours and its amazing them amount we have to talk about wecould go on, non stop for days

it must hae been wonderful to be able to share that with your mum.

i feel the same dread and panic, and i often find myself thinnking anything really really bad could happen at any momnet
i worry alot what else is going to happen

i hope its nothing too serious with your dad shabbs
i can understand why your so worried

my aunt had Alzhaimers and its a very cruel illness indeed and very tough on the whole family.

chipmonkey Tue 19-Feb-13 14:09:34

I was trying to analyse my own panicky feelings and I think what it is, is panicking in case this is all true and I've lost my girl. And of course it is true.sad
shabs, that is worrying about your Dad. I hope they get to the bottom of it and that it's nothing serious.

whiteandyelloworchid Tue 19-Feb-13 14:51:03

well this am i felt reasonalby ok, fairly calmish, then on the way to my friends how burst into tears, badly and was sobbing, was ok at my friends

then got back home, just been watching only fools and horses and letting out big belly laughs,its on now

feels like having bi-polar or something

SaintVera Tue 19-Feb-13 18:54:32

white I know that bi-polar feeling. I have been in a terrible state in the past two weeks, just falling into the madness of clinical depression (whatever that is). Rapid mood cycles, laughing one minute then being so low I feel I am just falling into the abyss. I am only posting on here because I have had a can of beer, which temporarily restores some sort of equilibrium.

whiteandyelloworchid Tue 19-Feb-13 20:14:27

saint v, do you ever have any ups? or do you always feel down?

whiteandyelloworchid Tue 19-Feb-13 20:17:34

oh sorry i can see you said you can laugh, just i was googling the other day, when does grief become depression? one thing it said the difference is, if you can be comforted at all, by poetry, tallking about your lost loved one etc
if these things bring comfort then its not depression

im not sure its as easily defined as that

i have ofter wondered have i become depressed? am i depressed but i suppose i think its just grief.
and it will always hurt

SaintVera Tue 19-Feb-13 21:02:38

I think I am now depressed. I am finding it difficult to look at photos, remember and finding it hard to believe all over again. I have been feeling quite panicky and agitated and scared I am losing my mind. I have stared Citalopram - I know that it is meant to get worse before it gets better - and feel a bit floored but still mad and panicky. I am in danger of losing it in front of DS2 who needs his mum, poor darling.

I think that descriptions of grief often don't include losing a child, which is a whole different world from 'regular' grief

SaintVera Tue 19-Feb-13 21:05:20

I think I am now depressed. I am finding it difficult to look at photos, remember and finding it hard to believe all over again. I have been feeling quite panicky and agitated and scared I am losing my mind. I have stared Citalopram - I know that it is meant to get worse before it gets better - and feel a bit floored but still mad and panicky. I am in danger of losing it in front of DS2 who needs his mum, poor darling.

I think that descriptions of grief often don't include losing a child, which is a whole different world from 'regular' grief

chipmonkey Tue 19-Feb-13 21:05:42

Agree, Vera. I was very upset when my Dad died. But I suppose we always know that our parents will die one day and for the most part, it's not our responsibility to keep them alive. Sylvie-Rose dying...... that was like someone ripped my heart out.

whiteandyelloworchid Tue 19-Feb-13 21:42:19

saint v, i totally agree anything thats normally said about grief doesn't work when its your child you have lost
i hope the citalopram kicks in soon, i think its supposed to take about 6 weeks is it ? to really kick in
so hang in there

chip, one of my friends dh' who lost his dad and they lost their child, he said although he was gutted to lose his dad, its nowhere near like the pain of losing a child
so sorry about your dad chip

been thinking about something the vicar said to me about ds, something about love ds and remmeber ds, but you need to let him go

how on earth do you do that and i really don't think i know what she means

My5boysandme Tue 19-Feb-13 21:51:40

I have bipolar disorder and I don't even get the highs anymore. I'd love one just to get through a day feeling full of energy, instead I feel awful. My medication works in as far as keeping my mood stable, however with the grief Troon in the mix and it's just a horrible whirlwind of emotions, now I'm suffering panic attacks on top of this, as well as pregnancy hormones and I'm fucked!

Have our meeting with pathologist tomorrow, so probably won't sleep much tonight either.

My gran died at Christmas and as much as I loved her I felt nothing(feel horrid writing that) but my grief for Dexter is still so raw and nobody else's death is going to be worse than that. Grief for your child is worse than the death of anyone else, and that's what is so scary about it.

whiteandyelloworchid Tue 19-Feb-13 22:06:54

myfive how many weeks ago are you now?

i will be thinking of you tomorrow

its understanderble feeling nothing about your gran, she had her life, and your mind is comsumed with dexter

i just feel like i keep seeing babies all the time, its everyday ont he school run, where you feel an expectaion to make polite chit chat, i find so so so wearing,
its not like i even want their babies, i want our ds, not theres.
its just this expectation at polite chit chat really wears me down
i think if i just hid away i would feel better
nver used to be like that, used to be some open, happy and chatty
not anymore

It's probably very natural to equate grief with depression. They both hurt, they both change you from the person you are 'normally'. But I agree, they are different things.

And grief for a child is far different from any other sort of pain. Like you, my five, my lovely grandmother died three days before Mia - and I still haven't felt anything. It hasn't even touched me. I think it's because I knew it was the natural order of things.

chip understand that panicky feeling very well. But I am being a bit stupid about it all, thinking very illogically that because Mia died, then we have had our bad luck and that nothing should happen with Finn. Blocking out the horrible possibilities in case I go bonkers. At the same time, I also know that's not how life works. There isn't a balance or a quota system.

My friend announced the birth of her baby boy last week with an email asking for lawyer details - he was in intensive care due to problems with the hospital at birth, and all she said was that the next 72 hours were critical. You can imagine how MrMia and I felt. However, it seems that he is improving, which is good news.

Shabba - hope that your father's mystery jaw bone illness is not serious. The unknown illness is very hard to face, especially when you already have had experience of the worst that can happen. But love your mum's wise words... and speaking of which, do you have any recent Lew pearls of wisdom for us?

whiteandyelloworchid Tue 19-Feb-13 22:23:17

miasmummy, glad to hear your friends baby is improving

My5boysandme Tue 19-Feb-13 22:23:43

I'm 19 weeks now and we're having a little boy. We're happy but sad/scared/guilty and a whole host of other emotions. The hospital has been in touch to say we'll get a sleep apnoea monitor but they want us to do basic first aid training and CPR. Feel sick at the thought as the last time I did CPR was on Dexter and it didn't work. They also want to get a plan in place for the birth and how best they can support me. Don't really like to talk about the pregnancy on here as don't want to upset anyone x

myfive there is a rainbow babies thread if you'd like to talk there link. I found it really helpful and supportive. But it's totally normal to be scared.

whiteandyelloworchid Tue 19-Feb-13 22:29:42

ok fair enough, i can understand why you don't really like talking about it in here, sorry hope you don't mind me asking
just thinking about you thats all.

Just realised I was being very insensitive before - huge apologies to those of you who found my post about my friend's baby upsetting. I just wanted to convey (very clumsily) how random life is, and how it hits you without warning...

My5boysandme Tue 19-Feb-13 22:41:52

Sorry white, thank you for asking I just feel a bit insensitive talking about here when people have lost their babies/children and/or who are struggling to have more or can't. I don't want to offend anyone when this thread has been invaluable to me x

whiteandyelloworchid Tue 19-Feb-13 23:00:52

thats ok, i totally understand

Morning girls xx

whiteandyelloworchid Wed 20-Feb-13 07:46:50

Morning. Xx

I know its not something to discus on here, but I got a bfp on a pregnancy test today, think ill come and say hello on the rainbow thread when j feel uoto it,.which could b some.months

Didn't want to.drone on about it,.just wanted to get it out x x

Congratulations White, thats lovely news x

This thread is here for us all to be able to say exactly how we are feeling and what is going on in our lives - if we want to and when we want to xx

My5boysandme Wed 20-Feb-13 10:21:20

Congratulations white, so very pleased for you x

Very welcome on the rainbow thread white congratulations!

chipmonkey Wed 20-Feb-13 13:22:26

myfive, a new little boy! How lovely! You will have to change your name to mysixboysandme!
White, Yay about the bfp!grin

whiteandyelloworchid Wed 20-Feb-13 14:00:02

thanks guys, suppos because ive lost the last three babies ive been pregnant with, i don't hold out much hope tbh.
but thanks for the congrats

frasersmummy Wed 20-Feb-13 20:07:30

5 boys dont feel guilty about takling about your pregnancy on here ..this thread probs more than any other thread on mn we will be praying for a safe outcome for you all

Congratulations White and Yellow

2 new little bundles of joys to look forward to

Its really hard being pregnant again. You try not to get excited but then you feel guilty for not feeling excited, you feel scared, you feel like you are replacing the little one you lost (you are not.. its just someone to cuddle), you feel happy and

One day at a time ladies .. one day at a time ...

lavandes Thu 21-Feb-13 07:37:46

Morning ladies x

Congratulations myfive and white wonderful news!!

Morning girls xx

myfive and white May I also add my congratulations? It is truly wonderful news!! xx

whiteandyelloworchid Thu 21-Feb-13 19:57:44

thanks xx

found this today, i bet we could write 100 more normal is.......

This Is Now What “Normal” Is…

Normal is having tears waiting behind every smile when you realize someone important is missing from all the important events in your family’s life.
Normal for me is trying to decide what to take to the cemetery for Birthdays, Christmas, Thanksgiving, New Years, July 4th and Easter.
Normal is feeling like you know how to act and are more comfortable at a funeral than a wedding or birthday party.. yet feeling a stab of pain in your heart when you smell the flowers and see the casket.
Normal is feeling like you can’t sit another minute without getting up and screaming, because you just don’t like to sit through anything.
Normal is not sleeping very well because a thousand ‘what ifs’ and ‘why didn’t I’s’ go through your head constantly.
Normal is reliving that day continuously through your eyes and mind, holding your head to make it go away.
Normal is having the TV on the minute you walk into the house to have noise, because silence is deafening.
Normal is staring at every baby who looks like he is my baby’s age and then thinking of the age he would be now and not being able to imagine it. Then wondering why it is even important to imagine it, because it will never happen.
Normal is every happy event in my life always being backed up with sadness lurking close behind because of the hole in my heart.
Normal is telling the story of your child’s death as if it were an everyday, commonplace activity, and then seeing the horror in someone’s eyes at how awful it sounds, and yet realizing it has become a part of my “normal”.
Normal is each year coming up with the difficult task of how to honor your child’s memory and their birthday and survive these days, trying to find the balloon or flag that fits the occasion. Happy Birthday? Not really.
Normal is my heart warming and yet sinking at the sight of something special that reminds me of my baby. Thinking how he would have loved it, but how he’s not here to enjoy it.
Normal is having some people afraid to even mention my baby.
Normal is making sure that others remember her.
Normal is that after the funeral is over, everyone else goes on with their lives but we will continue to grieve our loss forever.
Normal is weeks, months and years after the initial shock, the grieving gets worse sometimes, not better.
Normal is not listening to people compare anything in their life to this loss, unless they too have lost a child. NOTHING. Even if your child is in the remotest part of the earth away from you – it doesn’t compare. Losing a parent is horrible, but having to bury your own child is unnatural.
Normal is trying not to cry all day, because I know my mental health depends on it.
Normal is realizing I do cry everyday.
Normal is being impatient with everything and everyone, but someone stricken with grief over the loss of your child.
Normal is feeling a common bond with friends on the computer in England, Australia, Canada, the Netherlands and all over the USA, but never having met any of them face to face.
Normal is a new friendship with another grieving mother, talking and crying together over our children and our new lives.
Normal is being too tired to care if you paid the bills, cleaned the house, did laundry or if there is any food in the house.
Normal is wondering this time whether you are going to say you have two children or one, because you will never see this person again and it is not worth explaining that my baby is in Heaven. Yet when you say you have one child to avoid that problem, you feel horrible as if you have betrayed your baby.
Normal is knowing I will never get over the loss, in a day or a million years.And last of all, Normal is hiding all the things that have become “normal” for you to feel, so that everyone else around you will think you are “normal”.

My5boysandme Thu 21-Feb-13 20:11:35

white so very true sad

Normal is putting on a smile for other bloody people!!
Normal is smiling and then crying when adult men & women mention your child on know the adult men & woman who were all 7 years old the last time they saw your child. When they talk so lovingly about him and remember the friendship they shared smile
Normal is sending your congratulations on the same peoples fbook pages when they get engaged, married and when they have children of their own.
Normal is CRAP!!!

Morning girls xxx

Tanyaaah Fri 22-Feb-13 09:34:20

My little brother died just after xmas, he was 25. We didn't even know he was ill, he was in hospital for 2 weeks. I haven't written this down before.
I am so so sad for my parents, I just want them to be ok.

So sorry to hear about your brother. The only way I know how to cope is to all stick together....try to get your parents to talk about your brother and you to them. They wont be OK again - none of you will....they have started on this awful long journey of grieving for their child. Talk openly with them, if they cry dont say 'Dont cry' let them howl and scream if they want to. Only the passage of time blurs the edges of early grief. xx

chipmonkey Fri 22-Feb-13 21:50:10

Tanya, so sorry to hear about your brother. Your parents won't get over this but in time they will learn to live alongside their grief. I think we get used to relying on our parents and it can be upsetting to see them floored.
Is your brother your only sibling?

Morning girls xx


Normal is reading someone elses normal and noddding at every point.
Normal is saying my child is dead.
Normal is wondering how the hell to carry on.
Normal is feeling guilty when you laugh or enjoy something.

whiteandyelloworchid Sat 23-Feb-13 13:27:11

tanya, how caring of you to show so much concern about your mum and dad, i'm so sorry for your loss.i could imagine my dd worrying like this, shes only five, and i think your spot on, all you want them to be is ok

all i can say is were here to talk to, and just be there for each other, share your grief and your pain together
if they need a good old cry that will help them, alot of people have an instint to try and get people to stop crying but being able to hold someone while they pour there heart out is imo the best thing to do

whiteandyelloworchid Sat 23-Feb-13 13:32:43

normal is feeling mad when people moan about trivial shit
normal is not wantiing to become friend with new people
normal is being paranoid when someone new tries to befriend you, are they just after all the gossip
normal is not being able to think of the rest of your life, because you can only think of getting through the day/moment
normal is even when you do nice things, you have a deep under current of deep sadness, and feeling that you will never feel truely happy ever again
normal is know you will miss your child for the rest of your life
normal is no longer fearing death and wondering what happens when you die
normal is looking for signs
normal is to have a heart that just feels so heavy
normal is to simply want to feel OK again
normal is to seek peace, when you used to take a feeling of peace and calm for granted, you didnt need to seek it, it was just there.
normal is feeling different from everyone else
normal is feeling isolated
normal is feeling crushed

Morning girls xx

Dad having an operation on his jaw today. It is what we feared it was and I cant type the word out because that makes it real IYKWIM? Mum is worried sick which is making her Alzhaimers so much worse. My brother (there is just the two of us kids) is slagging me off to anyone who will listen - he thinks that I dont do enough for my parents sad the problem being that the person he is rubbishing me to the most has told me. Ahhhhh families - who would have 'em!! Dad was made to get in the hospital bed and when Mum and my darling brother were coming out he said 'Im not staying in this bed I want to go home with my missus!' Good luck to all the hospital staff because he can be a very difficult patient.

Yes I know my lovely Dad is nearly 81 but IF he dies the only two people who will be happy will be Gareth & Matthew. The support and love he has given to me and my children over the years is second to none, he adores all of them and regularly brags about them to anyone who will listen. smile is pinned on and I cant sleep - sat here thinking about a million things.

Get well soon Dad please.....Gareth & Matthew I hope you have to wait quite a few more years till your 'Grangrad' gets to see you again xxxxxxxx

lavandes Sun 24-Feb-13 13:19:40

Oh shabs I am so sorry. Your Dad is very precious. I will be thinking of you all today. xx

My nephew rang me a while ago. He has pretended to be my brother (his Dad) to get more information out of the hospital!!! He is a great lad and always sorting stuff out for everybody! They said the first biopsy they did was inconclusive so they are doing investigations today with Dad under general anesthetic.....and they will take it from there. They will have had to give him enough anesthetic to floor an elephant because he is adamant that he is coming home today!!! Waiting for news now. Oh my word this is a shite life. xxx

shabs really thinking of you today, sending your dad good health thoughts, and sending you hugs. xx

Thank you for your good wishes - its so appreciated.

Well the daft owd bugger is home...he just rang me off my brothers mobile (which incidentally he has not pressed the end call button) and said 'Whats the score at Man City v Chelsea, thanks for putting my lottery on I won a tenner, yes they have had a good dig about in my jaw and finished with see you tomorrow love' LOL.

Now we wait for the results.

My5boysandme Sun 24-Feb-13 16:34:30

Thinking of you and your dad shabbeth xx

lavandes Sun 24-Feb-13 21:43:39

Hishabs -please feel love and hugs from me and please hug your Mum and Dad from me (A Northern lass) xx

SaintVera Sun 24-Feb-13 21:48:18

Congratulations white and 5boys. I am so pleased for you

white, and others, so true what you say in your 'Normal is...' post. Can't add anything to that.

Tanya, so sorry from me too about your brother. I echo the 'stay together' sentiment. There are no words to make it better but caring for each other in small ways is sometimes the best one can do. Look after yourself as well as them

shabba I hope your dad is ok. Glad he's at home again

I've been very depressed and gone on antidepressants. They make me tired and unmotivated but I still feel depressed! Early days.

Thank you everybody for your very kind thoughts. I am going down to my parents tomorrow so will pass on your love xxx Every single part of me is aching tonight....this weekend has been going on for at least a month I'm sure of it.

Feel old, sad, knackered, very jittery and lonely. Tomorrow is another day and I will get up and pin on my smile and as my boy Matt used to say 'Gwab the day by de balls and shake it!!' smile

chipmonkey Mon 25-Feb-13 11:12:14

shabba, thinking of you and your lovely Dad xx

Vera, I have never taken AD's but I believe they take a couple of weeks to start working. Hope they kick in for you soon.

Morning girls xx

Morning girls xx Very quiet on here - everybody OK? xx

lavandes Wed 27-Feb-13 06:54:05

Morning ladies x

Hiya Lavandes xx

lavandes Wed 27-Feb-13 07:14:54

Hi Shabs x

chipmonkey Wed 27-Feb-13 08:36:08

morning all !

cafecito Wed 27-Feb-13 23:14:00

hello - have been very awol. thinking of you all. had lots of exams followed by a fluey lurgy lasting weeeks. Haven't been sleeping (lots of nightmares) got so much work to do so little time..
feeling a bit out of sorts I guess
tomorrow's DD's birthday sad nobody remembers.

agree with everything frasersmummy has said about being a bereaved mummy. it becomes part of you, forever, but the pain is, everyday, less intensely searing after a number of years

cafecito Wed 27-Feb-13 23:16:03

congratulations white and 5boys !!!

just read 'normal is'. so spot on.

SaintVera Thu 28-Feb-13 10:50:13

cafe, thinking about your darling DD and you on her birthday. Have lit a candle xx

cafecito Thu 28-Feb-13 13:36:52

thank you smile x

Cafe thinking of you and your dd today

Silly question,but how are you doing.?

It's me white btw

Hi guys could really do with your advice about how to handle something, I think I've said on here before about how difficult I find a certain group friendship since ds died

Well I just don't know what to do, as when I get asked out by this group, I think I don't know if I want to go, I don't look forward to it, and often when it's been a sitting around someone's house chatting type thing I think, in my head, I don't want to be here.

And i just don't know what to do, ifnimshould just stop seeing them, or if I will only isolate myself further if I start avoiding things and cutting contact with people

It the chatting part I find difficult I just ind I'm more and more withdrawn

<<waves to everybody>> Hiya!! xxx

cafecito Fri 01-Mar-13 20:50:11

hiya shabs!

ho white, and thank you. It was a very hard day, because nobody knew, and I didn't hear from a single friend or family member.


I'm okay otherwise though, sorta, I have renewed focus on my studies, I'm waiting for some exam results. I have to plan a couple of electives and do a research study this year so I'd like to do things that are as DD-related as possible really, because it motivates me to succeed, and also I have a genuine clinical interest.

I have to see her grandparents (paternal) at the weekend. dreading it. they don't even remember it was her birthday. they always criticise me. I just feel like it's a huge chore and once it's out the way I will go back to avoiding them for another year. they're insisting on coming to my place (to snoop about, no doubt). eeuurggh

cafecito Fri 01-Mar-13 20:58:44

white I don't know about your group friendship. how was it before you lost DS?

I would say, if you don't enjoy it, why are you going- because you don't want to be reclusive? you feel it's linked to DS? or you don't want them to think stuff? or you feel you should?

I am 4 years down the line, and have spent the past 6 weeks or so being very antisocial. And I can feel it will continue a bit longer. But then maybe I will be normalish for a while. This is how it is with me. It's up and down. I am very antisocial sometimes. I see no point in tormenting myself sat meaninglessly at something I don't want to be at, discussing meaningless fairyland drivel, when I hve a. too much work to do, and b. far more of an idea of real problems and loss and life than anyone near me does. Recently, I have taken great pleasure in sneaking into lectures at the back door, or sitting at the front on my own and then dashing out asap - and completely avoiding people on my course. I just need space sometimes.

I don't worry I will become reclusive etc, because I still do other things (though recently have been swamped by exams and then an illness fluey thing) but I do make sure I go and do things that I enjoy. So no, I won't go out for drinks anymore unless I want to and yes, I will happily decline invitations, all the time, but I will make the effort to go to a dance class, or yoga class, regularly, and there's a whole different peer group there, so I am not withdrawing generally, but I am focusing on doing what I want to do.

was a bit p*ssed off yesterday I got harrassed on my fb wall by a few people who are having a g o at me because I haven't met them for drinks - telling me to give them a date- I replied I am sorry I have had a lot on (er,,,,, mutiple impossibe exams for a start) and not one of them realised it was DDs birthday. I just sat there and thought, yeah, this is why I have no interest in meeting you - I would be happier on my own, than sat inanely for the sake of it to make other people happy.

But I also think some people would say, you should keep going, because once you start to cut yourself off it's easy to continue and then it's harder to reemerge from that dark place. Do you have other social things you go to? If it's just this one group that make you feel like this, don't go.

cafe, how are you today? i'm so sorry noone in your rl, remembered your dd's birthday, it was my ds's recently, and i was quite suprise the some people that i thought would remember didn't, well they didnt say anything to me if they did.
it really hurts doesn't it, remembering these special dates are so important to us

why are dds paternal gps coming?
could you put them off if you wanted too?

as for me, well

before i lost dd, i felt fine in the group.
but i was v different then, upbeat, probably not shy at joining in, iyswim, life full of plans

thats the thing, i do enjoy seeing other friends. been with an old work friend today and had a lovely time.
and theres plenty of other friends i see, so its not as if these are the only people i see, although they are more in my day to day life due to living locally

i suppose feeling like i'm being talked about bothers me, although, i'm smart enough to realise this will happen regardless of what i do say or do

perhaps on the next meet up, i might genuinely feel upto it, esp if i get very sick again in this pg.

sometimes i feel like a lost sheep wandering around
trying to figure things out

cafecito Sat 02-Mar-13 20:02:29

white if you enjoy other friendships, then I would give this one a miss. We all know how painfully short life can be.

Others may say, go and it'll be good for you

But no, I think do whatever you like doing. Go again in future, yes, when you're at a higher ebb iyswim

yes it does really hurt about noone remembering- even my best friends, even my aunt, etc, nobody

I have today emailed the gps in response to a ratty email this morning saying 'see you at 10am' not 'is it still okay we come over at ...'

and I said I am not feeling well and it is not convenient, nd I have missed lecturs due to illness, so I won't be seeing them, but I am happy to see them next week. I also said, it was DDs birthday and perhaps that is not helping matters, as I feel quite run down.

these are the gps who said ''move on'' when I mentioned DD, as I spoke at that conference last year about her case, and who tell me to dropout of school and criticise everything I do. I am SO NOT IN THE MOOD argh

vent over

on the plus side, instead of manicaly cleaning my flat, I went out, had coffee, felt a bit better and bought a lovely stethoscope today the same colour as DDs eyes smile sounds weird eh but makes me feel better

cafecito Sat 02-Mar-13 20:04:34

as for being talked about, this could happen anyway. I no longer give a rat's arse (turning into the fabulous shabba I think grin ) being there won't stop it happening. and if they're the kind of people who will do that, well, doesn't that tell you something about this group?

cafe, do you think theres any chance your bf or aunt remembered but was afraid to mention your dds birthday?
its shocking for gp's to say move on, i really hate hate that phrase, and all over forms of get over it hidden behind different words
move on
move forwards
i truely think your amazing with all your studying
your going to be an amazing dr

with these friends, it might be the whole group thing i'm not into, but alarm bells are ringing for some reason
also i feel a bit guarded around them, in a way i don't with other friends

yeah, i totally agree, i really really must stop worrying about people feeling sorry for me, or talking about me
as its simply going to happen anyway

thanks for talking sense into me.

cafecito Sun 03-Mar-13 02:07:32

“Do not judge the bereaved mother.
She comes in many forms.
She is breathing, but she is dying.
She may look young, but inside she has become ancient.
She smiles, but her heart sobs.
She walks, she talks, she cooks, she cleans, she works, she IS,
but she IS NOT, all at once.
She is here, but part of her is elsewhere for eternity.”

cafecito Sun 03-Mar-13 02:10:12

I think this group aren't right for you right now. So don't bother with them at the moment.

no, the bf or the aunt or anyone didn't remember at all, it's not a case of 'oh it's today but we don't want to upset her so we won't say anything' it's definitely a case of not remembering. AIBU to expect someone , just one RL person, to remember? Maybe I am. But it's as if she never existed to anyone except to me. confused I think I am being unreasonable to expect or hop anyone would recall her - but it really does hurt, to realise nobody does. Hmm

Hi cafe, I don't think yabu at all for wanting someone to remember your lovely dd
I am so sorry they didn't.

I love that poem. So true

What have you planned for today?

When I wiped last night after the I spotted the teeny tinyest spec of blood and I'm not too sure what to do. I'm supposed to be going in hospital for a scan on wed a six week one.

just been to the loo again and there was three tiny spots of blood on wiping.

so i called the breavement midwife, who ive been under, shes going to tell the consultant tomorrow and shes gonna let me know if he wants to see me earlier than wed

guess theres nothing other to do than wait and see what happens, and wait and see if i get a phone call tomorrow, in a way i'd rather wait till wed for the scan, because im worried it will be too early to see anythng anyway.
not looking good

White - feet up sweetheart - try to relax and let everybody else do the work.....when I was pregnant with Matt I had a light period every month for the first three months. I managed to fall downstairs at my Mums and I had x rays done at the dentist without knowing I was pregnant. When I missed a period I went to the doctors and he confirmed that I was almost 4 months pregnant!!!! I was so scared.

I know its easy for me to say...but hard for you to do....try to relax and rest as much as possible.


thanks shabbs, i lost the last three babies i've carried, so i know all i can do is wait and see.
i will try and follow your advice and try and relax as much as i can, and take it a bit easy, i suppose at least i will be seeing someone on wed if not before.
thanks for your advice xxxx

I can almost imagine how frightened you must be....and especially when it has happened before. There are times when my heart argues with my brain and my normal optimistic attitude starts to fail. I think this is understandable for anyone who has lost a child of any age and through any circumstances. Take care of yourself - wish I had some good advice other than try to rest. xxx

white, like shabba, I can only say try to relax, but that is such easy advice to give. While I was pg with Finn, and I would say I was worried, people would say blithely "Oh, it will be fine", which is very hard to hear.

Instead, I'd like to pass on a saying from the rainbow babies thread, which came from AngelGeorgie, and I don't think she would mind me sharing it here. It is for when anyone is feeling vulnerable, worried or anxious - "For today, I am pregnant." It is a bit of a mantra now.

Shabba, how's your father?

MrMia and I have just had a lovely weekend in London, reminding us of how wonderful it can be - delicious long lunches, walks in the wintery sunshine in the parks as the blossoms start to peek through, and spending time with special friends. And a bit of a first for me - I went out to a big birthday bash, knowing I would only know a few people, and even then, not particularly well, in that I hadn't seen many of them since ever before Mia had been born... and I still looked forward to the evening. I actually really enjoyed myself, and we did talk about Mia. I had to explain pretty much everything, but it was so nice that they wanted to hear, and ask questions, and engage. Not exactly party talk, but it meant a lot to me that they did.

Thank you for asking about my Dad xxx

He is very unwell sad have been with him this afternoon xxx

shabba that must be worrying. Hope you manage some sleep tonight. xx


shabbs your dad sounds like an amazing man, he sounds very kind.
is your dh much like your dad? they say us women seek out men like our fathers

i'm so sorry to hear he is so poorly xxxx

DH (been married 35 years on 18th March) was a 'bad lad' smile always in trouble and very cheeky. Over the years he has become quite like my Dad. They get on well with each other - maybe my Dad was a 'bad lad' when he was younger!

its lovely they get on well, yeah you will have to ask him if he was a badlad when he was younger

I like a 'bad lad' smile


What are your.fav things about your dad shabbs? My fab things about my dad is his compassion and warmth and amazing sense of humor he's often.crying with laughter at his own jokes
And he loves it if we, me and my brother take the Mick out of him

Morning girls xx

Dad is always there, whenever we need him. He loves my children almost as much as I do. We share a passion for football and Manchester City. He used to take me to all the home matches when I was younger. He was an only child at a time when people had large families and he hated it!! Most of all he adored his Mum and always says I look just like her smile

he sounds really really lovely shabbs xxxx

mias mummy, thanks for your kind words, i'm alot more glass half empty when it comes to pg, i'm just looking at it, as it's probably a mc, just hoping its not an ectopic or anythng that makes it even more a physical ordeal.
while still 1% of me hopes it will all be alright, but im pretty much resigned myself to thinking it isnt

white I do know what you mean. It feels so impossible that anything good can ever happen again - and if it does, you don't want to hope for it...

Morning girls xx

chipmonkey Wed 06-Mar-13 10:39:57

Morning shabba!

morning chip and shabba and everyone

My5boysandme Wed 06-Mar-13 15:57:06

white how did you get on at hospital today? Been thinking of you xx

hi five boys how are you doing?

gott on quite well i think, its not ectopic, it is in the womb.
there is only one
and atm everything looks ok.
going back next wed.

the sac was 8.4mm, and she said she thinks she can see the start of contents in the sac

she said she didnt really want to say, but that she thought she could possibly see a heartbeat, even i think i could see a flickering.

so trying to stay calm, but at least its not an ectopic pregnancy
trying not to get my hopes up too much as its such such early days

but today not had any bleeding, and she could see any bleeding or blood either on the scan.
my consultant will be there next week.

My5boysandme Wed 06-Mar-13 17:40:22

So pleased that it's positive news for now, keeping everything crossed for you xx

I'm having a pretty crappy day today, picked up Dexters post mortem results today, a very hard read, upset as they had spelt his middle name wrong. I'm just glad that I now know everything that everyone else knows iykwim.

Hope everyone else is as good as can be xx

thanks myfive x

so did you ask to get a copy of dexters pm results
we never actually saw a copy of our ds's, we just went for a chat with the consultant told us, well paraphrased i guess what it said.
i would have liked to have read the whole document though tbh

i'm not your suprised your upset at the spelling error, these things are so important to us.

chipmonkey Wed 06-Mar-13 18:41:34

myfive, how very upsetting that they spelt Dexter's middle name wrong. I remember feeling a bit upset even when Sylvie-Rose was still alive if people spelt her name wrongly and when she had died, it was worse, almost as if her name was almost all she had and people couldn't get it right. Inexcusable for an official document though.sad

White, that sounds so positive. Praying your little bean hangs in there!

My5boysandme Wed 06-Mar-13 18:48:34

We got a very brief paraphrasing at our meeting with the pathologist. They said they would send a copy to my doctors surgery for their records. I asked my lovely doctor if I could get a copy. He wanted to read it first, then left me a copy at reception. I thought I was maybe being stupid being upset at the spelling mistake, nothing I can do about it though.

5boys - any chance you could mention it to them?

White - great news - everything crossed here for you xxx

My5boysandme Wed 06-Mar-13 22:45:06

I will probably mention it to the health visitor, they also had my date of birth wrong.

cafecito Wed 06-Mar-13 23:49:01

sorry your dad's ill shabba

white so relieved to hear about your scan

5boys I went to a memorial thing at the hospital before christmas, looked in the book - and they had her name spelt wrong, her date of birth wrong... argh.. llike all she had left, and they had it all wrong -

Morning girls xx

Thank you Cafe. My Dad is very poorly sad

SaintVera Thu 07-Mar-13 12:21:56

I'm so sorry to hear that your dad is so unwell Shabba xx

SaintVera Thu 07-Mar-13 14:55:22

Thinking about the poor parents and family of Christina Edkins, aged 16, stabbed on her way to school in Birmingham today. What a terrible thing to happen

shabbs, did you see your dad today? so sorry to hear hes so poorlysad
huge hug (())

myfive good idea to mention it to the hv, i would too x

thanks for everyones kind wishes for the tiny bean, well seasame seed.

saint, thats terriblesad seems to be a lot of tv atm about murders and people going missing.

SaintVera Thu 07-Mar-13 17:44:31

white, I think it got to me especially because she was sweet 16, the same age as my DS.

I forgot to give you my congratulations on the bean/seed...great news xx

yes i can understand that age makingit really get to you x

do you hear your ds name being called much in rl?

i often hear my ds son name being used by other people, say in the school playground or in the park or whereever, i'll here a child say to another child, come on x lets go up the slide, or a parent say come on x, time to go or whatever, and it just makes me freeze sometimes.
if that makes any sense?

cafecito Thu 07-Mar-13 20:21:57

shabba, is he in hospital right now?

white- no, DD's name was quite rare but once recently, I was talking to a woman who had a DD with the exact same nickname as DD's and I said, oh that's a lovely name- and she said yes especially this nn - and it reeeallly got to me, had to fight back the urge to tell her about DD. I was reading a bulletin from the charity I support linked to DD- and there is one girl who had the same thing, who is now older as she survived, and has the exact same name as DD. She is also in a documentary about transplants, talking abut her treatment, and it was very weird.

But yeah if I heard it every day, it would really sting badly.

Saint- that is just shocking isn't it. I read it in the evening standard, aghast, on my way home - utterly senseless, horrific crime. To think, this time yesterday all was well. sad

No he is at home with my Mum. He told the hospital that he has a responsible adult to look after him.....except he fibbed to get out of hospital because my mum has Alzehimers. On Tuesday we will get the last result from the battery of tests they have done. I excpect it to say he has gum cancer. sad Yesterday despite all this they went doing their 'big shop' at bloody Tesco's. My Dad is and always has been a strong, stubborn man.

We are all taking it in turns to go and see them each day. Theres me, my brother, nephew (and his family) and my eldest son. They refuse help but last weekend was horrifying. Dad had a major bleed from his gums. Rang the hospital and they told me how to stop the bleeding. My darling firstborn took the unenviable task of clearing up after his grandad.

Awful to see my parents so poorly x

cafecito Thu 07-Mar-13 20:52:09

oh gosh how awful for you, it's that dreadful not knowing stage combines with being exhausted with it and constantly terrified they'll go downhill - h shabs. big hugs to you. gum cancer is very rare isn't it? are there any other symptoms? hope the results are conclusive and come in on time, at least there are family who could presumably help with mum if dad has to go in - he sounds like such a lovely man, sad is he still quite strong in himself?

I am no expert at all Cafe, and I dont know where it has started or where it is - all I know is that they did a biopsy in his gum and parts of his gum are breaking away. He first got ill when he had a tooth out about November last year. In the last two weeks he has lost almost 2 stone. He is shuffling like a very old man - yes he is almost 81 but in December he was strong and moaning about toothache. He is fading away in front of me and there is nothing at all they either can do or seem prepared to do. Everything hangs on the results on Tuesday - I want them to take him in hospital and try to take the awful pain away and make him comfy....but, no, lets send him home to my Mum who is fretting and worrying then forgetting why she is - this life is very, very cruel. Bad people walk around stealing the oxygen from precious babies and children who have died. God knows what its all about - and even if he did know I am not speaking to him.

oh shabbs, i am so sorry
your totally right bad people get away with shit all the time.

yet for us that try hard, life deals us a shitty shitty handsad
im so sorry

Specialist at the hospital say it is because he is a heavy drinker. Since Matt was killed my Dad has drunk a lot of whisky. He drank it till he was almost unconcious for months after Matt died. I wish he hadn't but for a while I drank heavily as well. I couldn't stop him - it was his way of coping. He has never, ever got over losing his grandsons.....I think Matt had a special little place in his heart - he loved all of them but Matt and him were inseparable. So I now feel guilty, so guilty - so guilty that I couldn't keep my lads here. Yes, I also know that is ridiculous but its how I feel.

The reunion (when the time comes) between my sons and my Dad - and my precious Grandma Bella when she sees her 'little boy' again will be joyous for them - but I am dreading it. xx

oh no, dds just been in tears, shes been crying so much over the past few weeks.
and ive been concerned about her emotional wellbeing

shes just now told me, shes not invited to another childs at school birthday party because she cries all the time

i explained that you can't get invited to every party everytime, and even when your a grown up you don't and its something you get used to.

then she told me she was crying at school today over silly things, getting mud on her dress and someone else reading her fav school book.

im really really worried about her and i dont knwo what to do

i'm going to try and talk to her teacher tomorrow, in private,suppose i will try and say have you got any concerns about her, how is she acting at school, has her behaviour changed

any other tips, i don't know what to do, i'm so so worried about her, so worried about the effects of everything on her

i just really want her to bo oksad

My5boysandme Thu 07-Mar-13 21:50:01

Shabbath so sorry you are going through this difficult time. Your dad sounds like a wonderful man.

Life is very cruel indeed. All these bad people who get to live and genuinely good people get dealt a shit hand. We shouldn't live in a world where babies and children die sad

oh shabbs, please please do not feel guilty.
i can totally understand the drinking the whisky, self medicating, doing what ever you need to, to get through that time.
i feel guilty too, like i'm the one whos let everyone down, didn't grow ds properly, and it's all my fault.
yet i know, this was the last thimg i ever ever wanted and would do anything to have ds here with us safe and well.

sometimes i wonder if everything we've been through makes any other problems and losses harder to handle because we are so raw to begin with

your love for your dad resonates through your posts
he is lucky to be so very loved

Thank you everybody for your lovely words.

White......after our Matt was killed we took Danny to see a child Psychologist (sp???) she was truly wonderful. She talked to him once a week in private. If she felt there were any worrying things she would talk to us about them. He says now its the best thing that ever happened to him after he lost his brothers. We got a referral from our GP and it was the best thing we ever did for our Dannys emotional well being. xxx

do you think i should suggest that shabbs?

i just don't know what to do for the best, i really don't

i suppose most people think because ds wasn't here for long, ti them its like he didn't exist and they think dd should be ok

It worked very well for us - and I cant see how it can hurt at all.

She may be worrying about a million expert in the psychology would be able to get her to talk about all kinds of things. Dannys doctor used to start off by asking him to draw how he felt - he says it saved him and made him realise he wasn't going crazy because thats how he felt after his brothers xx

He was about 10 when he went - but there were many more children in the waiting room that were much younger x

thanks shabbs, im going to talk to her teacher tomorrow and have a think about what to do

shabba thinking of you, your lovely dad, and your wonderful mum tonight. He sounds like he has a heart of gold, especially with his love for your boys.

white think Shabba's advice is sound, it can't hurt if you can find a way for DD to speak to a professional. Btw, I am not sure if I told you that we have a special Mia iris which we are going to plant soon - your name reminded me of it.

MrMia, Mia's uncle and four lovely friends are running a half marathon on Mother's Day to raise money for Mia's Wood. The tops have arrived tonight, and we have had some baby grows printed up too. It broke my heart to see Finn wearing a picture of Mia over his heart. It hurt. I wish so much that he could meet his big sister...

chipmonkey Thu 07-Mar-13 23:42:18

Oh, shabs, your poor lovely Dad!
And he probably wants to just be with your Mum, never mind how ill they both are.

cafecito Fri 08-Mar-13 00:33:06

oh shabs I am so sorry sad could be oral cancer I guess, could be an issue with his blood clotting though too (ie liver/ cellular level). oh how awful to see him like that. I saw my grandmother when she was dying from pancreatic cancer, but it was only a few months after DD had died, and I could just tell she was going- rapidly- I knew when she would die, but my entire family were oblivious. Biut yet I wasn't really 'there' for her, a. because I had to work in London and b. because I was all wrapped up in my new grief over DD that it was like water off a duck's back - oh another death, yeah whatever- style

terrible now I think back

white, I think that because of whathas happened, I don't feel more raw to begin with, I feel the opposite, I feel absolutely hardened. It makes my reactions very abnormal. But yeah, if someone close dies tomorrow I won't really blink. A lot of bad things have happened since DD died - and I don't really get affected at all - I tell myself ''it could be worse'' ie, nothing will EVER be as bad as losing your child - so I find everything else really a walk in the park in comparison no matter how awful it may be to a normal person. iyswim

mias It makes me sad that DS will never meet his big sister, too. Weird isn't it. Well done to the marathon runners though!! Wish I could get into running, I'd run for charity. But I can't even run for a train blush am fit in other ways, but not running

white have you heard of winstons wish? guess so, but worth contacting them. also yes to psychologist.

Morning girls xx

I have an apology to make to all of you. Im sorry for being so bloody depressing last night. At first, I thought to myself, Im not going to put it on this thread or the multiple births thread. Then I did!!! Thank you all for your kind words and support. Today is another day....onwards and upwards and all that crap.


Please don't pull out of the thread shabbs, we want to be here to support you x x I want you to have somewhere to talk about your worries
Please stay

Oh dont worry - have been with our thread from the first message on the first day and wont go anywhere. I may flounce out from time to time but I always come back!!! I just felt a bit odd about spreading my sadness about last night.


sad ok shabbs, yeah we all need a break from things from time to time, even this threadsad i know i've ducked out of this thread for a while

anything to get through it, whatever works

just know im thinking of you and your lovely dad and boys xx

Thank you, I appreciate that xxx

chipmonkey Fri 08-Mar-13 10:26:31

Shabs, why shouldn't you have posted? We are all here to support each other. God, if we weren't allowed to post when we were feeling depressed, the thread would be fairly empty!

LOL - I know xxx

I never know when to shut up though smile

chipmonkey Fri 08-Mar-13 10:44:37

Never shut up shabba! We love your babble!


Hello again, not been on here in a while but thought I'd poke my head in. I've taken down my profile for the time being just in case there are people from irl nosing, I feel more comfortable that way for now. I have some of you on fb and have been talking on there but I've missed it here!

Hope everyone is coping ok x

Hello all, I saw this on the USA Compassionate Friends site today, and it struck a chord. In response to those people who tell us that we should stop crying about our beautiful children, and as we worry about the health of all those we love :-

Tears have a wisdom all of their own. They come when a person has relaxed enough to let go and to work through the sorrow. They are the natural bleeding of an emotional wound, carrying the poison out of the system.

Especially for shabba, cafe, my five and white's little DD... but well, it's for everyone here really.

thanks mias mummy, for thinking of my dd,that has really touched me, that is a lovely quote.

dh has decided that dds problem, well part of it, is that shes not getting enough sleep, so hes decided to turn her light off at night
as she sleeps with the light on, as shes frightened of the dark.

i don't think this is a good idea, seems cruel to me,esp when shes having a hardtime but he says i don't listen to his ideas.

cafecito Fri 08-Mar-13 20:59:14

oh shabba you're so used to being everyone else's rock - you need support tlc or even just containment/venting space too, let's call it 'supervision' grin

please do not apologise ever ever ever!! and carry on posting depressing things whenever it's with you- honestly, I'm just sorry I have nothing useful to say

mias thank you for that quote, I think that's very true.

not sure about DD white- I don't have experience of an older child's potential grief iyswim. Obvously sleep is important but so is emotional wellbeing, of course.

My5boysandme Fri 08-Mar-13 22:46:48

white we have this night light for our oldest son(who is scared of the dark since Dexter died)

night light

It's motion sensored. It has two settings on constant, then auto. We leave it on til we go to bed then turn it on to auto. It then only comes on if there is movement in the room.

mia what a touching quote and so very true x

Morning girls xx

Sending love to everyone. <deep breath> We can do it.

hi everyone x thinking of you all tomorrow xxx much love and hope its a gentle day x

Morning girls xx

Its just another day my friends....just another day.

Have lit my candles here in Lancashire to show my love for our children who are not physically here. xxx

Morning. I'll be lighting candles today too. Very bittersweet day. It's snowing here, wonder if it'll settle.

I hope you dont mind or think that I`m intruding if I just drop some thanks for everyone and to say `much love` to you all today x

Thank you Dreams x

I keep thinking its just another day, this too shall pass. It hurts, I wish James was here. Sam came down this morning and said 'Happy Mothers Day, I love you" but it hurts.

I think this hurt is the price we pay for loving our children so much. I think that if it didn't hurt so much we wouldn't be 'normal' - whatever the hell normal is. Dont think I have been 'normal' for a long time smile


thanks dreams

i need to get a special candle to light on special days

i'll find one out for today though

i've got my lovely dd and my own mum, but i do find this a difficult day.keep trying to think its just another day

much love to you ds xxxxxx
love you always xxx
miss you everyday x

Helyantha Sun 10-Mar-13 11:22:56

I thank God every day for the gift of motherhood, but the love it brings hurts my heart beyond words on days like today. I promised myself that the loss of DS3 would not define us as a family, especially with DS2's health issues, but today I feel so isolated, so sad again; so different sad
I will light a candle for all our angel children and remember the joy. All will be well.
Love to all xx

i gave my mum her card earlier in the week, i sent her a txt just now simply saying
hi mum hope your having a lovely day lots of love my name, dh name and dds name xxx

then got the reply

hi yes thanks for the card. lots of flowers and cards.hope your as lucky have a great day love mum and dad

for some reason it stings, maybe i;m being super over sensitive.
i have two brothers, and this day lasy year we were sorting ds funeral, on mothers day we sorted out the music. then when we visited my mum, she kept showing me all her gifts and saying, hadn't she done well [regarding all her gifts]
and all i could think was oh lucky you with your flowers choc and cds, i actually dont want any of that crap, i just want my ds here alive and well.

i suppose my heads screaming, of course i'm not as lucky, lucky ffs....
and of course its not a great day for me ......

and i find the showing off of gifts a bit insensitive tbh

My5boysandme Sun 10-Mar-13 11:36:27

Today is so hard, it's my 1st mothers day with and without Dexter.

My husband took the boys out shopping yesterday for gifts(he has NEVER done this) and the ous made a big fuss this morning, which is lovely, but it's otter sweet indeed. I'd rather have a cuddle from all 5 of my boys rather than any other gift, but I can't.

Going to my mums for lunch, this is the 1st mothers day since boh my grans have died so oing to be a quiet affair with no fuss.

Love to all you wonderful mums (((hugs)))

frasersmummy Sun 10-Mar-13 14:05:16

Hi everyone .. for some of you this is your first mothers day without your darling child. I remember that day alll too clearly .. I didnt get out my pj's I didnt go and see my mum or anything.. I stayed in and wept till I couldnt breathe...

I still shed a tears on mothers day but now I do it quietly where no one else can see because you see I have a beautiful boy and I am supposed to rejoice in him

I do rejoice in him of course...he is very special ... god love him he made rice cripsies and orange juice and a homemade card and woke me up with them all on a tray this morning

So today I wept tears of joy and happiness... I have one wish for you all this mothers day .. that you may one day cry tears of joy as well as sadness on this most poignant of days

Have spent since last night at our local hospital with my Dad.....they think he has had a mini stroke. Speech and everything totally back to normal now and CT scan is clear. They are keeping him in for another night under observation. I am so far beyond tired it is a joke!!

Last night in the middle of A & E the male nurse came in. Lovely man with kind, gentle eyes. He explained he would be looking after my Dad and left the room - he rushed back in and said 'I am so sorry I never introduced name is MATT!!! Nobody else in that room realised the enormity of that one little name - I smiled and looked up at him and said 'thank you.' xxxxx

I hope this day is treating you all kindly. I have re-lit my beautiful vanilla candles to honour all of our precious children AND all of us. xxx

shabbs not suprised your so tired, oh i can see why hearing the name matt felt so powerful, esp in that situation.
bet i was a heart pounding moment for sure

lavandes Sun 10-Mar-13 21:59:22

Hi ladies x

Lots of love to you and your family Shabs.

Please can we all spare a thought for my workmate, a lovely lady only in her early forties, she has had a massive stroke after being sent home from hospital twice in the last 2 weeks being told there was 'nothing wrong'. She is fighting for her life. I feel such sadness for her Mum and Dad who lost her sister 2 months after we lost Richard. Their fear must be so great. So so sad

Oh my word Lavandes - so sorry - had my candles burning brightly all day - they were just finishing but I will put a new one out for your friend. So sad. I hope she makes a full recovery xxxxx

lavandes Sun 10-Mar-13 22:21:41

Thanks Shabs it is so sad, her Mum and Dad have been through so much as we all know, her Mum has not even started to come to terms with the death of her other daughter, it was very complicated. Her Dad found her dead in her flat. It is all tragic and there is nothing we can do but hope for the best. xx

Thinking of shabba and her lovely dad, as he is looked after by Matt. Do get some sleep, lovely lady. And thinking of lavandes' friend. I do struggle when friends suffer... surely all the pain and loss we have experience is enough to provide immunity for those around us? Don't we deserve that, at the very least??

For us, a wonderful day with friends running and cheering for Mia, but coming down hard now. I miss my girl. Pure and simple.

Afternoon girls xx

That crafty bugger of a Dad of mine grin Went up to see him last night and he made me bring home everything except his clothes. 'Take them all home love and then I will tell them I cant stay Monday night because I have no toiletries or anything!!!' Not sure it works that way Dad but I was pleased to join in with his plans. I love a rebel!!

Now my Mum is ringing me about every 5 minutes...'Ring the hospital again love, tell them I want my hubby home!!' Just rang and they said he is having his lunch before they even think about discharging him. I am thinking of hiding in a cupboard somewhere away from everything and everybody!!

shabba I love that your Dad loves your Mum so much that he just wants to be home with her ; and that she loves him so much that she is driving you crazy asking when he will be back. Very special.

mias mummy are these the mia iris' they are very beautiful

shabs your dad sound like great fun xx
no wonder hes so loved

well i had an appointment today with dds teacher
he said he has no concerns about her at all, i ask if she was withdrawn, he said no, i asked if she was having any friendship problems he said no
he said shes always smiling and laughing
but she had been a bit tearful in the afternoons last week. but nothing that concerned him
and that he thought it might be tiredness, i explained shes had quite a few nightmares over the past couple of month and thats been disturbing her sleep

he seems like a really nice guy, i'm glad shes in is care, he seems quite paternal

he sais shes doing well with reading, spelling and maths, but i wasn't worried about that, although suppose its good her school works not suffering.

shes actually been ok this weekend

its parents eve in a few weeks so i said i would like an update then as to her emotional wellbeing

he seemed really nice about it all

hi everyone

shabbs hows your dad today?

The doctor told my Dad today that he has a very aggresive form of cancer that is untreatable. It has spread from his jaw bone into his brain. He came out from seeing the doctor with my brother (me and mum were not allowed in according to Dad) and said 'bloody hell thats a shock.' My Mum turned into a shivering, trembling wreck. He has to stay in hospital for a couple of days and then, because we have insisted him and Mum are going home. They are getting help from McMillan nurses and a district nurse for mum. I hope and pray, with all my heart, that they go together, in their sleep, with their arms around each other. Very, very horrible day. My Dad said...'Eh love dont be sad, you have a broken heart because of your boys dying....this is normal love we are old, they had no life xxxx

oh shabba i am so so sorry to hear that about your wonderful dad.
how amazing of your dad to say 'Eh love dont be sad, you have a broken heart because of your boys dying....this is normal love we are old, they had no life xxxx
he is clearly an oustounding amazing hero.

i wish i could give you a real hug.

he is so so loved

sounds like you already have a plan what with the mcmillian nurses i'm glad that he will be able to come home.

wish i had some wise words but ijust have my heartfely sympathy xxx

oh shabba. No pin-on smiles tonight. Just love for you all. Can you tell your dad from me that he is truly amazing? xx

My5boysandme Tue 12-Mar-13 22:52:53

Oh Shabbath, I'm so very sorry (((hugs))) and strength to you xxx

We took him half a dozen whisky minatures tonight to the hospital....sneaked them in like bloody burglars!!!! To be honest after Matt was killed his drinking was excessive and I think that has been part of this problem. When we were driving back from the hospital my brother said 'Just nipping in the off licence Dad' - when he went in he texted me and said 'I know its wrong but what do you think about this plan?' I agreed with him. The look on Dads face when we were sneaking the bottles in was hysterical.

Who cares? To be a rebel for the last part of your life is important. I hope he has supped all 6 tonight and is pissed as a fart. The sight of his grandsons - Danny (31 years old) my nephew Nathan (25 years old) and my Tom (15 years old) teasing their Grandad and making him laugh is priceless.

chipmonkey Tue 12-Mar-13 23:29:05

shabs, I think you were dead right! A few drinks can't make anything better but they sure as hell can't make anything worse and at least he'll have enjoyed them!
Your Dad sounds so lovely xxxx

That was our thoughts as well Chip....I hope he is causing havoc in the ward LOL - IF they ring me and say he is I will go and get him myself (hospital is about 10 minutes walk) - I will get him and we will escape from that bloody ward. I will bring him home and we will get pissed together!! My language is not good tonight - sorry my friends xx

Much love to you and your family Shabbs

Thank you all for your support and lovely words - they mean a lot and it is appreciated. Mum needs to be in her own home because of her Alzheimers - she cannot help keep asking the same questions but it is so exhausting for her and me. She checks through her handbag all the time but she doesn't know what she is looking for. OK - chin up and smile pinned on........another day in paradise!! hmm

Shabbs, I don't know what to say except all my love to you and your funny, brave, amazing dad. I am thinking of you all. You have been such a support to me over the last 8 months. you are a truly amazing woman. Don't pin that smile on if you don't want to. Cry, rage and scream if you need to.

Helyantha Wed 13-Mar-13 12:17:53

Shabba so sorry to hear about your dad. But what a way to face a crisis! Is he like your Matt by any chance?
These are hard days, and no words can express adequately what you and yours must be going through, but please know that you are all in our prayers. No need for pin-on smiles just yet, but remember that breathing and walking thing thanks

hey shabbs, have you seen your dad at all today? did he had his six minitures? i hope he did and i hope he enjoyed them

thinking about you and your family xxxxxx

He had 5!! He put them in his slippers in the locker. Ward Sister came round and saw them....she said 'Harry are these bottles of vinegar love? wink 'Yes Sister!!' Said 'Saint' Harry!!! She walked off laughing!!.

Yes - him and Matt were partners in crime!!

oh so glad he enjoyed those smile

you will have to take him some more

maybe a mini ice bucket too xxx

one of my dhs friends ended up in ahospice and dhs friends fav thing was the drinks trolley, he really used to look fowardto the drinks trolley

always had a g and t x

hi everyone, hows things today shabbs.

We have organised Macmillan nurses and hoping that he can come home tomorrow. Macmillan nurse said 'Have you any questions Harry?' 'Yes love...I love my Rugby and its on Saturday afternoon - any chance I will be watching it at home on my own new posh telly?' She grinned at him and said 'Every chance sweetheart - I will do my best to make that happen and I cant see why it wont.'

oh i was going to ask what your dads name was, harry, i like that.

i hope your dad gets to watch it at home on sat.

maybe with a wee drink and a few snacks.

how are you doing yourself shabbs? i know silly impossible question xxx

Oh just the same old me - I haven't cried in front of anybody...its just the daft way I am - I just want to do my best for everybody. I have tried to be different but I cant. Just want Dad home and he said 'please will you help me plan out my funeral - just in case they are right cause they think its terminal (he keeps hoping they have given him someone elses results). I told him it will be a pleasure to help him to do that. He wants no religious stuff including hymns - said he has no belief in God because if there was a God he would never let children die. He asked if we could make it as much fun as possible because he cant stand morbid funerals smile My word, I love my dad xx

he really sounds amazing shabbs, i know you don't need me to tell you that

sounds a good idea to have more of a celebration of life rather than a funeral.

when we picked ds poem for his funeral, i wanted something more comforting that terribly sad and we picked this one

When tomorrow starts without me
And I'm not there to see;
If the sun should rise and find your eyes
All filled with tears for me.
I wish so much you wouldn't cry
The way you did today;
While thinking of the many things
We didn't get to say.

I know how much you love me
As much as I love you;
And each time that you think of me,
I know you'll miss me too.
But when tomorrow starts without me
Please try to understand,
That an angel came and called my name
And took me by the hand.

She said my place was ready
In heaven far above;
And that I'd have to leave behind,
All those I dearly love.

So when tomorrow starts without me,
Don't think we're far apart
For every time you think of me,
I'm right here in your heart.

but a realise you don't want anything religeous, but i thought id share that with you

oh i know a good one brb...

You can shed tears that he/she is gone
or you can smile because he/she has lived.
You can close your eyes and pray that he/she’ll come back
or you can open your eyes and see all he/she has left.
Your heart can be empty because you can’t see him/her
or you can be full of the love you shared.
You can turn your back on tomorrow and live yesterday
or you can be happy for tomorrow because of yesterday.
You can remember him/her and only that he/she has gone
or you can cherish his/her memory and let it live on.
You can cry and close your mind, be empty and turn your
or you can do what he/she’d want: smile, open your eyes, love
and go on.

i love this one, beautiful xx

or the song my way might well suit him! xxx

been thinking about you alot today x

He has always said that he wants the song 'We dont cry outloud' by Elkie Brooks...he says it is me and him 'We dont cry out loud, we keep it inside, learn how to hide our feelings.....'

oh i'm going to listen to that on you tube, back in a few mins

wow that sond is beautiful, i esp like the parts

Baby is an awful lot like me
She had the finest teacher
that's me
Fly high and proud

very lovely

its had me in tears xx

smile thats my favourite bit as well xx

oh i like the live version even more, you can really hear the emotion in her voice and soul.

i think theres so much truth in that song, as people tell us its ok to express our feelings and of course it is, but i simply cant do that every day for the rest of your life so you do have to learn to keep it all inside alot/most of the the time

realy great song

here i love this song, i really sing the blues to this and hope a change is coming soon to my life

Morning girls xx

Can everybody keep everything crossed that I can get my Dad home today? xx

Project Crossed Everything for Harry has commenced, shabba. It may make some activities today somewhat challenging! <contemplates current pretzel-like position> No matter, it's a worthy cause. X

Yep fingers crossed harry comes home today x

Thank you smile xxx

lavandes Fri 15-Mar-13 17:15:07

Fingers and crossed in Cornwall Shabs thinking of you all xxx

My5boysandme Fri 15-Mar-13 17:45:32

I'm hoping your dad gets home Shabbath. The love your mum and dad have together really shines through in your posts xx

Just going to pick up 'our Harry' and bring him home!!! You can all uncross your fingers now - many thanks for your unwavering support xxxx


harry, enjoy the rugby tomorrow smile

lavandes, do you live in cornwall? how lovely, i'd love to live near the sea.

we were supposed to be going to cornwall this year, got reffered to this project called sand rose, for breaved families, got approved, then they closed sad says on the website they are hoping to reopen soon

have you heard of it

chipmonkey Fri 15-Mar-13 23:13:47

Oh, shabs! That is great news!

lavandes Sat 16-Mar-13 15:36:08

Good Afternoon ladies xx

So glad your Dad is going home Shabs xx

I've lived in the same town in Cornwall all my life white I have never wanted to live anywhere else. I wouldn't mind having houses dotted around the world if I were rich though!

Hi guys dds been run down past fortnight sort of lo lever cold but last night she was coughing so bad, sweating has high temp. Just given calpol at 7am not sure if I should contact out of hours or wait till tomorrow ?

What do you think I should do please ?

Contact out of hours - her condition has become worse and it doesn't hurt to get her checked out.

Thanks mias mummy, I will do that then.

JUST phoned out of hours and told them she has temp of 39.1, shes got a nasty cough shes only 5 and i think shes got/may have a chest infection.
they said the dr will call back, but might take an hour....

Morning girls xx

White - Hope your DD soon gets better....children are scary things aren't they? xxx

thanks shabbs, im just sitting here by the phone, if they don't call by 845-9 i better call them back and check they have the right number

it is the thing, thats stresses me out the most, illness.
my biggest worry in life.

right have an appointment at 1020, so we are off xx

Good luck - hope everything goes well and DD is soon on the mend.

I agree - when my children are ill I build the illness up, in my head, until I frighten myself xx

We are back, they said her chest sounds clear of crackles and her throat is also clear, they said its an upper respiratory virus infection. And to just keep doing what we are doing fluids rest calpol. When we got home she was complainjng of being cold and asking for. Blanket and shivering, but her temp has gone back up again to late 39.5 she's just having some lunch just gave.more calpol half an hour ago

chipmonkey Sun 17-Mar-13 14:35:59

Oh white, poor dd and poor you! What a worry! Can you alternate baby nurofen with calpol or is that not advised any more?

She's got a bit worse since I getting her home, I did a thread in chat saying that her temp is still 39.5 two hours after having paracetamol and what should I do, most people said give ibuprofen too, so followed their advice, so gave her ibuprofen about 2.10pm

It's not like dd to be ill or to complain

She won't play board games which she normally will all day long, every day.
She just wants to go on the cbeebies website on the sofa so that's what she's doing

Wondering if I should call out of hours back if her temp doesn't improve soon

She looks a bit unwell in the face too, I suppose you can if you have a virus

Just worried about her

chipmonkey Sun 17-Mar-13 16:45:34

I would call. That's a very high temp and needs to be watched.

Morning girls xx

chipmonkey Mon 18-Mar-13 21:52:53

Hi shabs, how are your Dad and mum getting on at home?

When we go to see them they seem to be doing great BUT Im not very sure what they are like for the rest of the time. Mums Alzheimers is either quite mild OR totally out of control. I have been told by the ward Sister that Dads cancer, - because of where it is heading - into his brain, will eventually make him very confused as well. For now they are OK and for the future - we simply have no idea.

I will take the 'for now' though and we will worry about the future when we get there xxxxx

lavandes Thu 21-Mar-13 08:06:04

Morning ladies x

Hello my friends xx

Very quiet on here today - hope everybody is OK.

We are expecting a lot of snow tonight - Tom hopes school will be closed in the morning LOL


chipmonkey Thu 21-Mar-13 23:22:48

We had proper snow here last week, shabs but just in our town! I struggled to get the boys to school on time, had my snow boots on, then when I was ten minutes down the motorway there was no snow and my colleagues were all hmm that I was late!

Its started snowing!! The wind is a bit scary to be honest. Lets see what tomorrow brings!!

Morning girls - is everybody OK? xx

chipmonkey Fri 22-Mar-13 14:25:47

Not too bad today, shabs. I find I am having fewer really bad days. Hope I have not just shot myself in the foot by saying that.

My5boysandme Fri 22-Mar-13 17:15:54

I'm struggling just now, it will be 6 months on Sunday since Dexter died. I knew it would be bad, but for the last two days I've barely made it off the sofa apart from picking boys up from school, and haven't eaten and just been constantly crying. I want my boy here in my arms....

lavandes Fri 22-Mar-13 23:44:58

Hi ladies

I have been trying to cope , but all my dates are coming up. Easter Monday was the last day I saw Richard and that is coming up. It has been 3 years but sometimes it still feels like yesterday. It is still so difficult . I am a bit of a mess at the moment x

chipmonkey Sat 23-Mar-13 02:01:28

myfive and lavandes, those dates........ They throw you, don't they? I remember Easter being a tough time when my Nana died, lavandes, she was very religious ( but nice religious, if you know what I mean, she was so kind, not like those people who go to Church all the time but aren't actually nice people) and my uncle joked to her that she would "rise up like Jesus" on Easter Sunday. He meant that she'd get up out of her bed. She actually died though and I know for her that it was "rising up". But it made Easter a sad time for me for a long time. And she was my Nana, of course it was natural and proper that she should die before me, so Easter must really rip your heart out, lavandes.

myfive, I know you miss your boy. <<<<HUGS>>>> And you will have a baby to hold before too long, not Dexter, but a lovely new little man. I know people who have not lost a child will think that it makes it all better. We know here that it will make it a bit better, maybe even a lot better. But not all better. And I know you are probably going to be very worried about this new baby but I'm sure he will be perfectly fine, and the most trouble you will ever have with him will be in eighteen years when you are waiting up, wondering where he is at 3am!

Morning girls xx

Lavandes - so sorry you are feeling this way my friend. Its so difficult - dont know about you but the 'run up' to these days is always worse than the actual day for me. Thinking about you xxx

My5 - such early days - oh those horrible early days of grief - I wouldn't go back there for a million pounds.


Hi everyone, dds been awful this week. After out of hours sun, ended up at gp Mon am, as she was getting worse they still said virus. She's been really poorly all week. The fri she was crying saying her ear hurt, so took her again, third time in six days, and she's not a viscous ear infection. Now on anti biotics
Pissed off they didn't give them earlier. She's been off school all week

I feel dreadful sore throat so painful, can't take much because of the bean, I'm on progesterone, and I've been crying everynight when dds in bed
Feel so low and rough

It was the anniversary of ds funeral one friend remembered.

Myfive huge hug

Shabs how's your dad getting on being back in the house

Lavendes thinking of you x these dates are so tough, make you feel so raw again x

Mum & Dad have district nurses and Macmillan going in every day. He seems to be doing OK but he always puts on 'his face' for me. Mum is much more settled. He must be so scared. The doctor told him he could have 5 minutes left or 5 years - he has no idea when the end will come sad He is still having his whisky - and I dont blame him. If I was in his position I would be permenantly drunk. xx

Must be frightening, so frightening for him, esp the just not kkowiwing how it will effect him,in te
rms of mental bwellbeing.

He sounds so brave x

Must be frightening, so frightening for him, esp the just not kkowiwing how it will effect him,in te
rms of mental bwellbeing.

He sounds so brave x

Excuse typing in bed ill!

lavandes Sun 24-Mar-13 00:17:49

Thankyou all for your support.You will never know how much you have all helped me over the last 3 years.

Shabs you and yours are forever in my thoughts xxx

Morning girls xx

Thank you Lavandes xx

Remembering my special angel Caitlin 4 years on I still wonder what could of been and what should of been thank you for our rainbow baby Maddie think of you often miss you more xxxx

Hello all. Have typed a few posts on my phone previously but they aren't registering. Just wanted to send hugs all round. Xx

SaintVera Mon 25-Mar-13 11:17:51

Hi ladies. I like a tot of whisky too - I raise a glass to your dad Shabs (obviously not at this time in the morning!)
Love to Maddieand your Caitlin
Thanks for the hug Mia. Always needed x

hi everyone.

still sick heresad

getting fed up with it

Love to you maddie and thinking of your Caitlin x

ds love and miss you so much, had a bit of a shit morning, just wish you where still here sad
life will never be the same without you xxx

"Without You"

I can't win, I can't reign
I will never win this game
Without you, without you
I am lost, I am vain,
I will never be the same
Without you, without you

I won't run, I won't fly
I will never make it by
Without you, without you
I can't rest, I can't fight
All I need is you and I,
Without you, without you

Oh oh oh!
You! You! You!
You! You! You!

Can't erase, so I'll take blame
But I can't accept that we're estranged
Without you, without you
I can't quit now, this can't be right
I can't take one more sleepless night
Without you, without you

I won't soar, I won't climb
If you're not here, I'm paralyzed
Without you, without you
I can't look, I'm so blind
I lost my heart, I lost my mind
Without you, without you

Oh oh oh!
You! You! You!
You! You! You!

I am lost, I am vain,
I will never be the same
Without you, without you

Morning girls xx

Morning! How's everyone? White, are you feeling less sad this morning? Shabba, how are you and your parents? It's sunny here (a rarity!) but it is still far too cold. Yet I think Summer time starts on Sunday.(?!?) And who has nice Easter plans?

morning everyone, well been in tears every single day atm, i think it might be due to the progesterone i'm on, i think i only need to have it for another 3 weeks, i have a hospital appointment next week, so i will ask my consultant, when i can come off it

plus with dd being poorly, and now me and dh are feeling rough, guess i'm just v run down atm.

we are planning on going to the seaside for a couple of days tomorrow, its booked and paid for, and non refundable, and like dh says, might as well feel rough somewhere else as rough at home

so still planning on going atm.

Morning girls xx

lavandes Fri 29-Mar-13 23:03:50

Hi Ladies

Our Grandsons are here and they will give me the strength to get through this weekend. When I look into the eyes of my grandson I see his Dad, he has no idea. I love being a Granny xxx

So glad they are with you Lavandes - grandchildren are very special aren't they? We (Dan,Em, Lewis & me) went to see my parents yesterday. My Dad, normally a very private man, said 'I'm having trouble doing a poo!!!' Which, for some strange reason, made us all laugh!!!

Lew said 'Pop I sometimes cant poo so I take my DS to the toilet with me and play on it...before you know whats happening my poo has come out!!' He offered the DS to my Dad - who has no idea what it is but took it with him anyway. We heard him coming back down and Lew raced out to him. 'Did it work Pop??' Dad (with massive grin on his face) said 'It did I did a massive poo!!!!'

We all stood in the hallway cheering my Dads poo!!! Think we are all losing the plot now. xxx

lavandes Sat 30-Mar-13 22:34:54

That is priceless Shabs The very young grandkids can have a very special relationship with their Grand and Great Grandparents. My boys were very lucky to have their grandparents and both of my dh's grandparents when they were very young. I didn't have any grandparents and I was so grateful that they did. My dh's granny was the most caring and wonderful woman I have ever known. She looked after herself until she was 98. x

Morning girls xx

I do realise the massive importance of Easter....especially to people who are religious. Is it just me who is thinking - if I was Jesus' Dad and I had the power to stop horrible stuff happening to him I would do it in a heartbeat??? Or is that too simple?? For whatever reason I just feel down in the dumps today.

lavandes Sun 31-Mar-13 21:53:41

HI ladies x

HI Shabs this is such a horrible time for you. I honestly don't know what to say, nothing I say will make it better. All I know of your situation is to say please spend as much time as you can with your Dad, talk to him as much as you can, there is nothing more. Do as you tell us and take one foot after another and breathe. Also look after yourself you are going to need your strength. Sending lots of love to you and yours xxx

Thank you love. It truly has been the 'oddest' of days - nervy, edgy scared feelings...there is so much going on and it feels like I cant 'do it all.' BUT I will, I have to, there is no other option. xxx

lavandes Sun 31-Mar-13 22:27:49

My situation with my Mum was different to yours, she was in a nursing home but if you get a feeling that you must go to him then do go, I truly believe in 'gut' feelings. It did work for me. xx

SaintVera Mon 01-Apr-13 00:18:04

Oh, that Nat King Cole song...! Made me cry Shabba
Love to you and wishing you the strength to walk through this fire for your dad.
I hope Easter is bearable for everyone here

Morning girls xx

I love Nat King Cole - his voice is so pure and when I saw that song it made me 'smile' - one thing Gareth & Matt always had was a smile. When we went to see Matt at the chapel of rest he still had mucky hands and a dirty face...I had asked them to leave him like that - because thats what he was always like....when I looked at him he had a big smile on his face. Precious, but sad, memories.


Saying hello to everyone here.

Sending gentle love to lavandes and Richard today. I hope your time with your grandsons can bring some smiles on this difficult day.

Myfive I hope that you feel that Dexter strongly was in your hearts yesterday.

Shabba your family is amazing. May your dad continue to poo regularly and happily under Lew's guidance!!

white let the tears flow. As I have said before, they are liquid love. I hope the change of location to the seaside provides you all with some relief, and maybe even some sunshine...

maddy if it's not too late, I'd also like to remember Caitlin too. Such a beautiful name.

We have just returned from a whirlwind tour of the family down south, and ended up going to Mr Mia's aunt's 80th birthday that had worried me so. I have only meet many of this extended family once or twice, the first time holding Mia proudly in my arms at 5 weeks of age, and the second a year later, at the celebration of her life. And it was fine - Everyone was just lovely, and to my surprise, they all openly talked about Mia alongside Finn. It's nice when people behave unexpectedly like that.

MrMia is currently cleaning up Mia's cot for Finn. Little bitemarks on one end where she would stand and shriek for me after a nap, just to let me know she wanted to get up. Bittersweet thoughts. I love them both so much.

Morning girls. Well the sun is shining here but its freezing cold. Lew is keeping me entertained with his 'craziness'. Hope you are all doing OK xx

Morning girls xx

Got my grandson here. He just said 'Andma, do you miss Gareth & Matty?' 'Yes love, very much.' 'Well (says the little lad in reception class) just say this with me.....'Our father who art in 'eaven, give us this day our daily bread and gift us our trees sapping!!' <<heart melts>> We say this every day and it makes my heart feel warm. Out of the mouth of babes??

I love your Lew.

Morning girls xx

Morning! Sunshine here. Hoping to get outside after two days of sickness for MrMia and me. Happily, Finn seems to have escaped.

Hope that everybody is OK and thats why our thread is so quiet. The sun has shone brightly here all day - hope it has wherever you all are xxx

lavandes Sun 07-Apr-13 22:04:20

Hi ladies x

I'm here Shabs I'm working my way through April one day at a time, ok'ish so far xx

Sending my love Lavandes - working your way through it sounds good to me. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Morning girls xx

So very quiet on here. Hope you are all OK.

Will keep on posting - no matter how many or how few are here. This thread is too special to leave.

Thinking about my sons and all our children tonight xxxx

Me too. Ok here, just not enough sleep as Finn has decided that 2hrly feeds are totally acceptable again...

lavandes Thu 11-Apr-13 07:51:57

Morning ladies x

Morning girls xx

Mia - I remember that well - 2 hour feeds <<yawn>> and the feeling that you are 'walking around outside your own body' because you are so beyond tired. xx

shabs do you remember the bad-tempered screams of hunger too? Can't believe a four-month-old already has a temper...

MrMia told me tonight that the funeral director has rung to ask whether we would like to pick up Mia's ashes. Of course, we should, and we will, but we don't really know what to do with them. We could spread them at Mia's Wood, which is the most logical thing to do. However, he has suggested I could have them made into a man-made diamond if I wanted, which I both like and find a little weird too. Has anyone else here ever done something like this? Is it really very weird? Would you do it?

My Gareth had a very bad temper smile it makes me smile now but it shocked me when I first saw it.

I think the diamond part is beautiful. Would love to have done that.

I believe you can also use the ashes to make a God my big fat lardy body would make a marvellous rocket.....that idea also appeals to me but I am very weird wink

If you are weird, shabs, then I am honoured to be in that camp! wink

grin us nutcases have to stick together xxxx

<<unlocks the door of the padded cell and comes out>>

Morning girls xx

Aloha! <sneaks in quietly to join Shabs>

<<offers cheese & onion crisps and a large glass of cider apple juice>>

Im staying in this cell and not coming out......its quiet in here and, up to now, neither of my kids OR my grandson has found me grin

SaintVera Fri 12-Apr-13 23:38:15

Hi everyone, I've been away and had a nice time. Been crying since I got back last night. I miss my boy, I miss my boy, I miss my boy.

I used to hate it when this thread went quiet because I felt on my own. I hope you are all ok and thank you for keeping the thread alive, Shabba. It is a vital place and must keep going.

Love to all of you xxxx

Morning girls xx

Welcome home Saint. x

Saint I think the thread sometimes goes quiet because people worry that they are burdening others with their feelings. But that is not true. This is a place for understanding, and hopefully, a littlest bit of solace as we share our love for our children.

Noisy Mia.
Wonderful Sean.
Cheeky Matt and big brother Gareth.
So many others...

I do feel I "know" so many children here. Of course I wish it wasn't necessary. But learning about them all, and seeing the passionate love from their mothers is humbling.

frasersmummy Sun 14-Apr-13 20:11:39

I feel guilty for posting on here tonight after such a long time away .. it seems very self indulgent

but our Fraser would be 9 tomorrow ... I cant believe its been 9 years

I still miss him

So good to see you here FMummy - have missed you very much.

Will be lighting my candles to honour him and you tomorrow xx

Morning girls xx

Thinking about you and Fraser today FM. xx

Hello FM. Thinking of Fraser today, nine years of complete and absolute love.

Just lighting my 'strawberry' scented candles in honour of Fraser and to remember all our children xx

SaintVera Mon 15-Apr-13 18:49:01

Remembering Fraser and thinking of you x x

Good morning girls xx

lavandes Tue 16-Apr-13 07:35:19

Morning ladies x

Sending love to you and your family today fm x

My Dad has started going to the local hospice once a week on a Tuesday. Mum is really sulking because she wants to go as well!! I decided that each Tuesday now I will be going down to her house and taking her out somewhere!!

I asked her where she would like to go today....straight away she said 'the cemetery - I haven't been for so long and I need to go!' <<gulp>> I dont go at all - hardly ever! We went on a fairly long bus ride (10 minutes in a car) and she walked to the local flower shop. Armed with bunches and bunches of flowers off we went. Another 20 minute walk!! She led the way with me having to link her to just keep up!!

Went into the main gates....we walked all around reading the headstones....getting closer and closer to my boys grave and Mums parents grave (which is next door)

It was blowing a gale but very sunny. We put the flowers on and they looked so beautiful. Just before we came away my precious Mum kissed her fingertips and put the kiss on Gareths picture and then Matts picture. My poor forgetful, stressed out Mum cried. Have never seen her cry before at the graveside. sad Then she made me walk another 20 minutes, the long way around, back to the bus stop!!

She said tonight 'It feels like it wont be long till we see those lovely lads again.'

Beautiful, Shabs. There is so much love in your family.

Morning girls xx

lavandes Wed 17-Apr-13 07:48:23

Morning ladies x

Your Mum is lovely Shabs it sounds like she took you to see your boys. xx


My mum is a survivor, or so I've heard it said.
But I hear her crying at night when all others are in bed.
I watch her lay awake at night and go to hold her hand.
She doesn't know I'm with her to help her understand.
But like the sands on the beach that never wash away...
I watch over my surviving mum, who thinks of me each day.
She wears a smile for others...a smile of disguise.
But through heavens door I see tears flowing from her eyes.

My surviving mum tries to cope with death to keep my memory alive.
As I watch over my surviving mum...through heavens open door
I try to tell her that angels protect me forever more.
But I know that doesn't help her or ease the burden that she bears.
So if you get the chance, go visit her...and show her that you care
For no matter what she matter what she feels
My surving mum has a broken heart that time wont ever heal.

lavandes Thu 18-Apr-13 06:42:20

Morning ladies x

That says it all Shabs so so true, thanks xx

Morning girls xx

SaintVera Thu 18-Apr-13 11:36:44

A poem with a lot of truth in it Shabs.

We had Sean's birthday on Tuesday. I am in reasonably good form at the moment, ~thanks to citalopram and alcohol~ God knows how. It was bearable, but...empty. I am dealing with life by not dealing with it and festering away at home a lot. I don't judge myself for it. I am not fighting the deadly silence any more, just living with it. I will get out there soon.

I also came off Facebook yesterday as it is doing my nut in and I am too old for feeling paranoia about people who have decided not to contact me on Sean's birthday despite knowing full well it was his birthday, just because of past grievances that I thought were water under the bridge once Sean had died. I can feel the ties to some people from my 'previous life' being cut and it feels ok now and more clear cut. Let them go. I want my energy to go into remembering my boy.

I hope you are all ok...xx

sh77 Thu 18-Apr-13 12:02:29

Remembering my beautiful firstborn daughter who was born 4 years ago today and passed away four years ago tomorrow. Only my best friend has contacted me. Everybody else has forgotten.

SaintVera Thu 18-Apr-13 13:41:49

I am so sorry sh77. I don't think most people intend to be unkind, but god it hurts. Remembering your daughter with you x

My5boysandme Thu 18-Apr-13 15:26:17

Shabbath, that poem is lovely and so very true.

Not been on here for a while,sometimes I just don't what to say.

Morning girls xx

sh77 we will always remember with you, whenever you want to talk about your daughter. Any day of the year. xx

saintvera sounds like you are doing all the right things. Can't believe people are being so petty. You really don't need them and their irrelevant concerns in your life. xx

expatinscotland Fri 19-Apr-13 22:29:46

Hi, everyone smile.

hey there expat. How are things with you? I have been lurking on the GoT threads - just discovered the whole series, and we are hooked... and you are an expert!! So - should I read the books?

hi guys

shabs i love that poem

it reminds me of this one, excuse me if ive posted this one before and forgotten

My Mom, she tells a lot of lies,

She never did before

But from now until she dies,

She'll tell a whole lot more.

Ask my Mom how she is

And because she can't explain,

She will tell a little lie

because she can't describe the pain.

Ask my Mom how she is,

She'll say"I'm alright."

If that's the truth, then tell me,

why does she cry each night ?

Ask my Mom how she is

She seems to cope so well,

She didn't have a choice you see,

Nor the strength to yell.

Ask my Mom how she is,

"I'm fine, I'm well, I'm coping."

For God's sake Mom, just tell the truth,

Just say your heart is broken

She'll love me all her life

I loved her all of mine.

But if you ask her how she is,

She'll lie and say she's fine.

I am here in Heaven

I cannot hug from here.

If she lies to you don't listen

Hug her and hold her near.

On the day we meet again,

We'll smile and I'll be bold.

I'll say,

"You're lucky to get in here, Mom,

With all the lies you told!"

white, that is a favourite of mine too.

Morning girls xx

White I love that poem - so truthful and honest x

In the garden for the first time this year. Our Mamma Mia rose hasn't made it through the winter. hmm

Morning girls xx

Sorry to hear that Mias...I have four rose bushes - all in separate tubs.....looks like only one has made it through Winter as well.....just hoping its my favourite 'Blue Moon' because I cant remember which is which!!!! Its been a long and harsh Winter here.

oh sorry to hear the mamma mia rose hasn't made it throught the winter, its sure been a long winter

we have a mini free for ds, a
thats only just starting to get a few buds on it, no real leaves or anything yet, its nly in a large barrel so really hope it will make it

oh, ive not heard of blue moon before i shall look that up, its hard to find blues ish flowers isnt it

to ds, love you and miss you so so much, want you to say stay close to me, make sure i'm ok
but i would feel guilty, as i want you to be free to run and play, not keep an eye on me
my heart breaks for you every single day, just wish things where so different and you were still here and you were healthy and well
can't understand why your gone and i'm still heresad
it is not right
i love so much, and i miss you so much

two songs for you
precious child

one more day

love forever mummy xxxxxxxxxxx

Blue Moon roses are, sadly, not blue - more of a lavender/blue combination!!! They are beautiful though.

My Dad bought it for me because we both support Manchester City and their song is 'Blue Moon' smile

just googled blue moon rose, its lovely

Morning girls xx

morning x

Just watched 'hoarders next door' on telly (think thats what its called)

The man had lost his brother when he was 22 and the lady had lost a child. The psychiatrist said 'the bereavment of a child or a young sibling was the most traumatic event and many hoarders had suffered this trauma. That one sentance made me so sad I had to turn the tv off. Just stood in the kitchen with the radio on.......I wanted a large bottle of gin, large bottle of tonic and 20 cigarettes!!!! I have none of them so am sat back in the living room quietly sulking!!

Morning girls xx

lavandes Tue 23-Apr-13 08:32:35

Morning ladies xx

If only more people would take that on board then maybe more people would understand us xx

Certainly would be better for us if more people 'got it' Lavandes.

Im a bloody mess today...shaky, teary and feel 'mentally poorly.' Dad was in hospital again at the weekend (is home now)....think he had a water infection that was making him confused. He is fading away in front of my eyes, Mum is 'away with the fairies' and my brother has left his wife of 30 years shock everybody is telling me their problems and expecting my support and I truly want to help BUT I feel like I am choking in all this sadness.

OK....Dad is going for his weekly day to the hospice - to tell them its boring and he isint going again <<sigh>> so I have my lovely Mam for the day - she wants to go into Bolton shopping!!! Dear God, bless us and piggin' save us - its going to be a long, long day!!

lavandes Tue 23-Apr-13 08:59:19

Passes Shabs the gin and a fag xxx I'm so sorry you have so much to deal with I wish I could help you xxx