"You Light The Skies Up Above Me, A Star So Bright You Blind Me" Remembering all our precious children.

(1000 Posts)
fioled Sat 25-Aug-12 11:45:08

For my beautiful baby Anabelle Violet, loved and missed to the moon and back, always xxx How hard we wish that you were here baby girl.

Twinkle twinkle little star,
Up above the world so high,
Like a diamond in the sky.

For all our babies and children, big and small xx

foolingwithmisskitty Sat 25-Aug-12 11:47:18

Such a beautiful name. My son Jack would have been 4 this year. Lots of love xxxx

frasersmummy Sat 25-Aug-12 11:53:46

thanks for starting the new thread fioled

Thinking of my darling first born son...born asleep 8.5 years ago

They say there is a reason,
They say that time will heal,
But neither time nor reason,
Will change the way I feel,
For no-one knows the heartache,
That lies behind our smiles,
No-one knows how many times,
We have broken down and cried,
We want to tell you something,
So there won't be any doubt,
You're so wonderful to think of,
But so hard to be without.

MrsY Sat 25-Aug-12 11:57:20

Thanks fioled, lovely thread title. I often think about little Poppy Barlow when I think about Benedict. I hope they all play nicely together.

In memory of my darling boy, Benedict John Peanut. We love you and miss you so much. xxxx

ILikeToMoveItMoveIt Sat 25-Aug-12 12:05:18

Such an apt name for the new thread Fio. This song means a lot to dh and I as it was released around the time that Cole died. Whenever we hear it we say it is Cole saying hello to us.

Thank you for starting this thread.

I love you baby boy and I miss you every single day. You are on my mind a lot at the moment. Your younger brothers are getting older and I worry that I am leaving you behind. I don't want to leave you behind, I need you to be with us always x

What a brilliant thread title fioled just perfect for all our children!

Remembering my precious baby girl Sterre. We miss you every day, but know you're always in our hearts!

Thank you fioled, such a lovely thread to remember our beautiful children.

Stars are other worlds. Mia, you transported us to a whole new world, where colours were brighter, emotions were heightened, and everything was perfect. For us, it was heaven. My gorgeous, amazing, noisy girl, we carry a slice of heaven in our hearts evermore. Love you, Sweet Pea. xx

frasersmummy Sat 25-Aug-12 17:05:55

i thought it would be easier to find if we linked to our dates thread from the first page of the thread

all our precious dates

deemented Sat 25-Aug-12 17:09:30

Thank you fioled for starting this thread.

In memory of my forever baby, my Ciaran, who died shortly after he was born, very nearly eight years ago now.

There's not a day i don't think of you, lovely, my lovely x

lavandes Sat 25-Aug-12 17:29:18

Thank you fioled for our new thread, may we continue to support eachother for as long as we need to xx

Remembering our beloved Richard loved and missed beyond words xxx

MrsKwazii Sat 25-Aug-12 17:37:02

Thank you for the new thread Fioled

Thinking of my beautiful girl who showed me just how deep love can be - thank you for the four wonderful years that we had together. It's been six months since you left us and I miss you with all my heart xx

MrsY Sat 25-Aug-12 18:23:04

Thanks for the link and the poem, fm. x

Tamisara Sat 25-Aug-12 20:55:18

Thank you Fioled for this new thread, and thanks to Blue for the previous one.

Remembering Tamsin Rainbow - loved always, missed forever xx

Beautiful thread fioled Remembering our darling Erin, especially today on her 1st birthday xxxx

Thank you for the kind words and thoughts. What a hard hard day. How I wish she was here with us. Baby Holly being born seems to have set me right back, makes me realise just what we missed out on with Erin.

Love to all xx

MrsKwazii Sat 25-Aug-12 21:33:20

Happy birthday Erin and oodles of (((()))) for you WTW

lavandes Sat 25-Aug-12 22:49:48

Sending love to you and your family tonight whatever and Happy 1st Birthday to your precious Erin xxx

expatinscotland Sat 25-Aug-12 23:55:58

Thanks for the new thread!

Happy Birthday Erin smile.

I'm mum to Aillidh, 19 June 2003 - 7 July 2012. She died in PICU at Yorkhill Hospital, Glasgow, from complications of treatment for acute myeloid leukaemia. And to her younger sister, age 6, and brother, age 3.

goingtoexplodesoon Sun 26-Aug-12 02:12:57

Thanks for the new thread.

I'm mother to beautiful Emily. She would have been four three weeks ago, and died one year ago. The three years we shared were the best time of my life. Every star in the sky makes me think of you. Always loved, never forgotten.

deemented Sun 26-Aug-12 07:41:57

wtw I hope yesterday passed as easily as it could for you, sweets x

Thank you for the new thread Fi....2,500 miles away in Greece but got a few minutes to get on the laptop. Remembering Gareth & Matthew - my precious boys....each time I sit around the pool 2 big butterflies hover and then fly away. They are enormous and the bottom part of their wings goes into a kind of long point. So beautiful.


chipmonkey Sun 26-Aug-12 14:11:10

Remembering Sylvie-Rose, the mosr beautiful girl in the World, stolen by SIDS last October. The princess of white feathers, pink roses and unexpected rainbows.

MrsY Sun 26-Aug-12 22:47:40

Details for the first ten lots of the auction went up on the website today. If any of you are on facebook or twitter and can share the link, I'd really appreciate it.


alyak2011 Sun 26-Aug-12 23:22:06

Hiya everyone smile just wondering if any of you had a most mortem done and how long it took to get results. ive recently changed address and as far as im aware my hospital notes etc are in my old address. I still speak to the lady that i moved with so im sure she will pass on post however im just curious to find out if the results or letter form the hospital will be sent or will they ring :S

i have birth on the 10th of july and i still havent recieved a 6 week check up, all ive had is a midwife come out to me 3 days after and said i was looking fine. sorry for tmi but ive stopped bleeding and alread had my first period so do i really need this check up?

lavandes Sun 26-Aug-12 23:31:54

Hi alyak My son died on April 18th 1010 and we did not receive pm results until late August 2010. Wy it should take so long is a mystery to me xx

alyak2011 Sun 26-Aug-12 23:33:26

hi lav did u get a letter to see a consultant through the post to get the results hun?

Tamisara Sun 26-Aug-12 23:35:02

alyak We didn't have one for Tamsin... I just couldn't bear it. They still did the placenta histiology, and bloods etc.

I know that the placenta & other test results are through at the 6 week consultant follow-up, but I believe the postmortem results take longer.

As well as the 6 week check-up with the GP, you really should have been offered an appointment with an obstetrician, to go over what happened, possible reasons, and to make preliminary arrangements for future pregnancies.

I would phone the GP & make an appointment to see them (the GP). As you've had a period I imagine that the uterus has contracted, but it's best to check anyway (it doesn't involve any poking around down there at all), the GP may not even need to check, but they do need to see you, and have a debrief.

Whilst at the GPs I would demand an appointment with your consultant at the hospital... I'm astonished you haven't been offered one already.

Don't worry about the address, as long as you have given it to them, it should be fine, but it's another thing you can check with your GP, who can contact the hospital and ensure they have your new address on file.

They shouldn't let you know the results of the PM by letter - they should invite you in, so that you can ask questions.

You sound so brave, I hope you are OK (as OK as you can be) xx

chipmonkey Sun 26-Aug-12 23:35:15

aylak, we had to wait four months for Sylvie-Rose's post mortem but I'm in Ireland and in some areas here it takes far too long. But that was also because it was a coroner's post-mortem as her death was unexpected.
I would go for that check up tbh, if I were you. It's likely that everything's fine but best to be sure. I didn't have mine till 3 months after but that was because she was in NICU and then died. My bereavement counsellor ended up organising it.

alyak2011 Sun 26-Aug-12 23:42:46

i myself was born at 24 weeks and im healthy smile i initially phone my midwife on the 10th (when dan died) as i was having pain which i thought was constipation/trapped wind, i was told to take paracetamol and if this didnt work to go to my nearest walk in. i did this and they looked at me in complete shock and said NO u shouldnt be here we dont have the facilitys your in labour. i was then sent to another hospital via ambulance. i was 9cm dialated and my waters hadnt broken but was holding me open,3 hours later they burst and all the pain i was experiencing went. to the point where i felt perfectl fine and they checked again and i was back to 3cm dialated. i was then transferred to a third hospital, they done scans ad at 3:30 am dan had a strong heartbeat. as 4:30am there was nothing. i waiting a firther 7 hours until i gave birth. it pains meknowing he was dead inside me for so long and they knew and did nothing.

i was told they could have given me an injection to help dans lungs but that was as far as it got because i got nothing!! i was then discharged an hour after birth

im so eager to find answers yet i no this may not always be possible sad i had a previous miscarriage6 months before falling pregnant then this happened sad

alyak2011 Sun 26-Aug-12 23:46:46

after 2 ambulances - 3 hospitals - 8 internals and 4 scans i dont want to be poked,touched or have anyone go downthere for anything tbh! and this may sound foolish but if a gp suggested an internal for any reason i would point blank say NO

Charleymouse Sun 26-Aug-12 23:48:01

Lovely thread title Fioled.

With love remembering my darling identical twin boy Benjamin.

Things get easier and harder as time goes on. It gets easier to think of you without sobbing my darling boy But it is harder to explain to my other children why you are not here, especially to your twin brother. I feel they have been robbed of their innocence and I have been robbed of my role as the invincible parent who can sort out any problem. How can you trust me when I say don't worry Mummy will sort it out.

Nice to see familiar faces and not so nice (in the nicest possible way) to see new faces. Welcome to all and hello to those of you I have already met.

WTW hope yesterday was bearable and you got through okay.

Much love

chipmonkey Sun 26-Aug-12 23:54:40

Hi Charleymouse!

chipmonkey Sun 26-Aug-12 23:58:24

aylak, after Sylvie-Rose was born, the number of people who told me about a baby they knew who was born at 28 weeks and was now studying medicine or suchlike was amazing. And the night before she died, she was so bright, sitting up in my arms and looking around her. and the next morning she died and no-one can really tell me why.
I wanted the PM to give me answers but really I got none.

alyak2011 Mon 27-Aug-12 00:07:38

im sorry for your loss chip sad ididnt have any time living with dan....i just really wish i would have got to know the colour of his eyes sad

lavandes Mon 27-Aug-12 00:09:10

No it was a PM result from the Coroner. Our son died as the result of a tragic accident he was 34. I don't know what happens with a baby or young child it just seemed a long time xx

alyak2011 Mon 27-Aug-12 00:16:50

ohh ok lav blush sorry for the mix up

lavandes Mon 27-Aug-12 00:32:19

No don't be sorry, would have liked to help xx

alyak2011 Mon 27-Aug-12 00:40:03

im going to bed now ladies! thank you for the chat smile ill pop in again in afew days ad see how everyone is getting on smile

MrsY Mon 27-Aug-12 18:21:20

Hope everyone has enjoyed a nice BHM?

We didn't have a PM, but I understand they can take a few months. I'm sure they will call you in to discuss the findings. I really would chase up a follow up consultant appointment, alyak, quite a few things came up at mine, including going for more tests. xxx

twinklesunshine Mon 27-Aug-12 18:27:28

I am just over 5 months out and no pm results yet, death certificate says unascertained. We keep phoning to check and be told that the report will be with us within 2 weeks…..nothing. xxxxx

We had a post mortem done for Sterre. We were told we would get the results after 6 weeks at our consultants appointment. We did have to phone up as the letter with the date had gone missing in the post.
Lucky for us we did get some answers.
Not sure whether they would just send the results though... I would rather have someone explaining them than to just receive them in the post...

expatinscotland Mon 27-Aug-12 19:00:11

A PM was not necessary for Aillidh as her cause of death was very obvious sad

chipmonkey Mon 27-Aug-12 19:27:21

expat sad knowing means there's no waiting to find out but it doesn't make it any better.
I was afraid we would be told it was our fault. I still wonder if it was, tbh.

twinklesunshine Mon 27-Aug-12 19:39:29

Chip, correct me if I am wrong, but Sylvie-Rose died of SIDS didn't she? I think that is what happened to my little man too. It wasn't our fault. After he died we had to be interviewed by the police at the hospital, and were not allowed into the house until the police had been in to check his bedroom. I overheard them asking my husband about the temp of the room, if the windows were open, did he have a duvet and pillow etc. I still think its my fault, but rationally I know its not, SIDS is known for having no exact cause or reason, there is nothing you could have done about it. The ambulance man said to me that I could have sat in his room all night and watched it happen and still not be able to save him, and once a child stops breathing it is always hard to get them back, because it was so quick.

I understand that the PM may not give me any results either, and its so hard isn't it. I just don't understand how there can not be a 'reason'.

Lots of love xxx

chipmonkey Mon 27-Aug-12 19:53:52

twinkle, you are right, of course but even though right from the start the hospital staff were very quick to say "You didn't do anything wrong" I always wonder. What kills me is that she was in hospital for 6 weeks and 3 days. The fourth day after she came home she died. So I do wonder if it was something about our home, maybe we're not as hygienic as the hospital ( in fact, we're definitely not as hygienic as the hospital!) if I'd watched her more.....
None of it's logical at all but I do sometimes wonder why my baby died when other people's don't.
The neonatologist who gave us the PM results told us we were just unlucky and as you said, if they stop breathing there's not much you can do and that it occasionally happens in hospital too.

I am reading a book at the moment which is getting the better of me.
It's called " Quantum Physics, Near Death Experiences, Eternal Consciousness, Religion, and the Human Soul"
So far it's just been quantum physics. And there are all these equations! And Planck's constant and the Heisenberg uncertainly principle, and Special Relativity.

Just a bit of light reading!grin

expatinscotland Mon 27-Aug-12 20:10:40

I think most of us are plagued by 'what ifs'. I know I am.

expatinscotland Mon 27-Aug-12 20:14:02

Some of my parents mates from Schehallion saw and spoke with the family of this girl today at Yorkhill, shortly before she, too, died sad:


twinklesunshine Mon 27-Aug-12 20:16:17

God, my brain hurts just reading your description of the book! Very light reading. I am better with autobiographies!

Maybe, if she had died in hospital, you would feel the same but just in reverse, why didn't you take her home etc, and blame yourself that way (not that I am in any way saying you should) - I think mummies just do it to themselves regardless of the situation. I am glad it happened at home for us, the boys regularly stay with their grandparents and I think if it had happened there I would feel even worse.

I also struggle with why him. He is classed as a sudden unexpected death in childhood as he was over 1, and I googled it, and that happens to 1 in 100,000 children. It makes me so angry.

Sometimes I can't actually believe it. I had my first dream last night where he wasn't with us and I just had 2 children, so sad that this has become or lives hey.


expatinscotland Mon 27-Aug-12 20:30:53

Oh, twinkle! We have just 2 children now, too.

Firsttobed Mon 27-Aug-12 20:38:36

For my beautiful baby boy who should be here with us now. Four months on, feels like an eternity and just yesterday. Xxx

twinklesunshine Mon 27-Aug-12 20:43:53

So sorry Expat, have been following beautiful Aillidh on here and facebook. I hate it. I have lost the middle one, and I know its not important in the grand scheme of things, but I am obsessed with the age gap, one of the worst things for me, which sounds so petty. I made sure that they were close in age so that they would always have someone at school etc and its all ruined. I hate people looking at us and not knowing that there is a spot where someone else should be. How are you holding up at the moment? xxxx

Thank you for the new thread, Fioled. Remembering you Charlie, I miss you my Angel x

expatinscotland Mon 27-Aug-12 20:45:58

Same here, twinkle. People see us with a girl and a boy. The perfect family.

Will always miss her so much.

zeno Mon 27-Aug-12 21:14:59

Hi twinkle. Our dd died suddenly aged 4 and was thought to be sudc. Eventually after many months the cause was given as acute viral myocarditis.

The results took a very long time because of a shortage of expert pathologists for children to analyse the pm evidence.

I still ask for reassurance that there wasn't anything we could have done. I still feel terrible that we didn't save her. I still struggle to believe that a perfectly healthy child can die like that, even though we were there and I saw it happen.

There is an organisation in the us called sudc who are brilliantly supportive and can put you in touch with other families in the same boat. They fund-raise for research and awareness.

I haven't been on here for a while - sometimes I need to step away. Sorry to all for being a bit pants at being supportive and keeping company with you all.

Hi there all. Blubbed in a lovely gastropub today while having lunch with a friend. Oh well. She cried too. In fact, had a fairly emotional time, as DH and I have been arguing about stupid DIY projects. He thought it was me nesting big time, but was only when I was sobbing that this is the only thing I can control in my life at the moment, that he understood my unnatural focus on having it all sorted out - I am waiting for Mia's birthday, waiting for her inquest, waiting for this baby to arrive. As someone normally independent and who likes to be able to determine my own choices, it is very difficult in all kinds of ways. Trying to think of it merely as a 90-day ordeal.

zeno in the initial PM results, Mia was thought to have acute viral myocarditis as well, but that was formally revised by a child pathologist to a bacterial infection of her mitral valve. All words I never knew a year ago. We were "fortunate" in that we had the results quite quickly. Our cardiologist friend now has told us that perhaps it was caused by a possible non-sterile blood transfusion she had at birth, as I had a EMCS. Essentially, Mia had a little time bomb within her, just waiting to happen, and there is nothing we could have done to find out, except that last time we took her to hospital, and they failed us in the worst way.

I try not to dwell on what-ifs. Mia was just so, so unlucky. But my DH does blame himself. He keeps dwelling on an episode where he wasn't feeling well, and became worried he was having a heart attack, and feels that he was 'visited' by a presence and given a choice... he feels that the price of his promise to 'do anything' to stay alive was Mia's life. Now DH is not remotely religious, but now thinks there is a spiritual check and balance, and feels so bad. We have talked about it several times, but he is quite adamant.

MrsY Mon 27-Aug-12 23:56:07

I think it's totally understandable that we blame ourselves, because on a basic level, our job is to protect our children, and if they aren't here, we obviously didn't do that. But of course, life just isn't like that.

For us, one of the hard things is that we went into the birth centre when my contractions started and were sent away as I wasn't in established labour. At the time, they were debating sending me straight to the main hospital as my blood test results were iffy and I had a history of very quick labours (as it turned out, the blood test results were actually someone elses). Less then 24 hours later I was back at the BC and they couldn't find his heart beat. I will always wonder if things wold have been different - if I'd gone straight to Pembury and been monitored, he might not have died.

I'm in a bit of a state. We have very close friends, our best friends, due to visit on Wednesday. They live in Paris and we haven't seen them for ages. Won't catch up until at least this time next year. Their daughter was born two days before B, and I just don't think I can see her. But obviously I can't see them and not her. Really don't know what to do. I know a few of you have had this dilema (or something similar) in the past - was meeting a baby as bad as you thought, or better than the anticipation?

fioled Tue 28-Aug-12 00:10:00

mrsy I find babies 'ok' (girls not so much, but ok) as long as I don't have to touch them. In the earlier weeks I couldn't manage it at all, after a few months I could just about manage the same room, but to this day I will not hold a newborn (that wasn't mine, obviously I managed my rainbow!) Those first few times, and even now, I seem to find a steely exterior and be smiley and nice around the babies and then let the hurt come later when they have gone. Somehow you get through it, like we get through everything else.

Decide whether or not you are going to hold this baby before they arrive, so you know how to plan to say 'no thankyou' if that is your wish.

Funnily enough I cope much better with toddler girls now, those who would be the same age as Belle don't always have me in pieces like they used to, of course sometimes I feel really upset when I let myself imagine, but day to day I can walk past a 2 year old without wanting to run away. Same with older babies once they get past about 6 months, but newborns I still cannot cope with at all, even pictures sometimes. I think its because my baby girl was a tiny 4lb 5oz, so I just can't do it. I can't hold someone elses tiny girl when I ache so much to hold my own.

Our friends are having a girl in Dec, and I'm already anxious about what will be expected of me. I know I still won't want to hold her. I will be 2 1/2 years down the road, and I know I still cannot do it. I know I need to get over this fear of girls at some point, I can't go through life avoiding them, especially if we have nieces one day (or indeed another daughter, but that would be very different wouldn't it), but not yet, I know its not going to be this baby that I let this fear go with.

fioled Tue 28-Aug-12 00:11:20

and mrsy if they are your best friends, they will totally understand if you cannot hold or interact much with their baby.

having her around you is big enough hurdle for now.

zeno Tue 28-Aug-12 10:41:04

MrsY I found it excrutiating to see other children of the same age for a very long time. I think it's hard to guess at how you may feel and you will just need to be very gentle with yourselves and protective.

Personally, I have a strong urge to stare at my dd's peer group as long and hard as I can get away with, then often go and have a big cry. Your friends will of course be aware that it will be rough, and are likely to be feeling very anxious about not upsetting you. We often had to let people know that it was OK for it to be wierd and awkward and that it wasn't their fault.

mrsY your friends will understand about your apprehension, but I would say something openly to acknowledge it. It sounds like you will probably have to see them, especially if they are good friends with whom you don't want to lose contact. Can you perhaps visit them during the baby's nap time?

For us, we deliberately made the choice to keep contact with our friends whose children are the same age as Mia, and they have been wonderful - generous and supportive - perhaps even more than others, because they feel our pain, and can imagine the immediacy of our loss. Your friends might be the same. Yes, sometimes it hurts to see Mia's little friends growing up, but it also helps us to imagine what she might be doing at the same stages. However, these children are not Mia, and in a funny way, that helps. They can never be as amazing as our beautiful girl!! And I could never deny my friends the happiness they experience from their children.

chipmonkey Tue 28-Aug-12 11:53:41

I'm a bit dogdy around little girls still but did manage to hold dhs niece who was born around the time Sylvie-Rose died. Since then my cousin and a couple of FB friends have had little girls and I find it hard when the photos just pop up on my timeline.

I had an awful dream. I dreamt I was asking the lead singer of Ash to sing at ds4s funeral. Please let that never happen!

expatinscotland Tue 28-Aug-12 11:57:49

What I find hard is watching A's younger sister, now in the same class A was in, reading the same books. sad It will get hard when she surpasses the age A was before she fell ill.

A will forever be 9 years old and truly, 8, as she was dying by her birthday and didn't even manage a bite of cake.

Can I just add James to the list? He was 22 and we miss him so so much.
I love you James, always will. I hope the sun is shining on you and that you are happy. Keep an eye on Sam, he misses you all the time xxx

ILikeToMoveItMoveIt Tue 28-Aug-12 13:53:55

Of course you can add James to the list mum, the list doesn't belong to anyone.

Be honest with your friends MrsY and do what you feel comfortable with. If you want to push yourself the do, but if it's too much then stop - it's ok to change your mind.

After C died I didn't mind seeing his little friends, they helped to remind me that life goes on and that the world was still revolving. However I couldn't bare to see children of C's age who I didn't know - especially if they were crying and upset.

Ds3 has just turned 16mo and is now older than Cole will ever have been. I think that's why C has been on my mind so much recently. That and the fact that last week I saw some families that I met in hospital when I was there with C.

Both of their children survived, and I in no way begrudge them that. Infact seeing their dc thriving reinforces that everything we put C through (the treatment etc) was the right decision - with the information we were given at the time. Of course in the end it didn't work out and we were right to say enough.

But it doesn't stop the if only's though.

zeno Tue 28-Aug-12 14:45:34

Expat, our dd2 is coming up to the age dd1 was when she died. It is unbearable at times. We keep hoping things will get easier when she overtakes, but I'm not convinced! She is now wearing the same clothes and will soon outgrow them. Wierd and unsettling, and very hard to talk about in any meaningful way with those who haven't had the misfortune to go there.

MrsY Tue 28-Aug-12 18:07:56

I told J yesterday I didn't think I could go through with it, and we have settled on meeting somewhere other than there house, and with lots of things for the Mouse to do, so I can spend the time playing with her. And we'll take both cars, so I can bid a hasty retreat if it really gets too much.

Had a massive cry and we sat and talked about B for a while. Then I couldn't sleep at all last night, so today has been a bit of a challenge!

When they first said they were coming over, I told her I had no idea how we'd feel on the day, but chances are it would be one of the toughest things to deal with since we lost B, and I think she understands, as much as she can.

Helyantha Tue 28-Aug-12 18:18:13

Thank you for the new thread, Fioled.

Remembering and celebrating our darling third son. As your brothers grow, ready to fly, you are always with us, safe in our hearts.

MrsKwazii Tue 28-Aug-12 18:32:33

Just wanted to say hello and that I'm going to have a bit of an MN break for a few weeks. There have been some really horrid threads recently after the tragic accidents in Burnham and now Scotland, and while this thread is a safe haven as always, I'm finding the site as a whole a bit hard going. Love to you all and see you soon xx

chipmonkey Tue 28-Aug-12 19:20:58

MrsY, I totally get it. You need to take care of yourself first and foremost and any true friend will understand.

MrsK, I'll miss you but you know where I am!

expatinscotland Tue 28-Aug-12 21:32:37

MrsK, thinking of you ((())).

mrsK and mrsY glad you are putting yourselves first and doing what feels best for you. xx

expatinscotland Tue 28-Aug-12 22:02:35

Things I Can No Longer Abide:
That Cussons advert with the woman going from scan to child walking
Midwives or any show like it
24 Hours in A&E or any medical show at all
The B&Q advert with 'Our House' playing in the background
Catalogues featuring models with the build and colouring Aillidh had
Certain people on FB whose updates I can no longer read or pictures I can't bear to look at
The sight of Yorkhill Hospital on TV
Certain songs

expatinscotland Tue 28-Aug-12 22:05:59

Because we have a daughter who is 2.5 years younger than Aillidh, I have to suck up a lot.

Aillidh was only a class higher than her sister because of her dyspraxia.

So DD2 is in the same class now that Aillidh was in. She's reading the same book, and will soon pass where she was.

I got so upset I went into A's school bag and found her last book. 'Twigga and the Moon' and her jotter. Her last day at school was 18 November 2011.

She was diagnosed 25 November 2011.

She died 227 days later.

I have a similar list.
That same advert
Definitely no hospital / midwife / A&E reality shows
No music in the car, in case the words catch me unawares
Any sort of unnecessary violence to anyone on tv, in fact very little on tv
Driving past the hospital
Watching other mums at the gym taking their kids into the pool
The children's clothes section in Boots
News about the the medical mistakes or bureaucracy hiding the truth

Only last week, I too picked up Mia's nursery report book. It only had three entries. sad She was eating well, slept when she should, was interested in the sandpit and sensory room, and loved playing on the slide, going up backwards...

chipmonkey Tue 28-Aug-12 22:26:32

Does anyone else find that people casually ask if you watched One Born Every Minute as if they expect you'll be fine with it? I get that a lot.

And do you know how ridiculous I am? I worry that if the boys grow up and have a dp or a dw and she gets pregnant, that maybe she might go to the hospital where Sylvie-Rose was born and that I'll find it unbearable. Talk about overthinking things! For all I know they could all be gay or go to live in Australia or both!

expatinscotland Tue 28-Aug-12 22:30:06

Aillidh loved OBEM and wanted to have lots of kids.

I will never, ever watch that show again in my entire life.

fioled Tue 28-Aug-12 23:35:09

chip I over think the future all of the time.You are definitely not alone in that.

chipmonkey Wed 29-Aug-12 09:21:03

Morning all.

fioled, I'm glad I'm not alone in that!

Its a bit different forme, James was an adult when he died but I worry about how I will feel on Sams' wedding day, the birth of his first child, the first house he buys etc. All the things that James will never do, it hurts to think that Sams' special days and events will always be bittersweet.

I can't listen to certain songs and watch certain things because its too raw.

Its the loss of potential that hurts the most I think.

MrsY Wed 29-Aug-12 09:58:36

I always analyse the future. Worried that the Mouse may go through the pain that we have.

Benedict was born in the same room as my neice had been born 6 months before. sad

I love love LOVE the Great British Bake Off. I spend the last five minutes of the show looking for the remote so I can whip it over as soon as the programme finishes.

I now usually watch all programmes on catch-up or tivo so I can fast forward adverts!
We used to watch lots of crime dramas - csi, ncis, criminal minds. Can't watch any that might include a baby or child.

Must dash - we've viewing a new house before we go and meet our friends! Hoping we can pop in a quick visit to see B at some point today, too, but that maybe too much.

chipmonkey Wed 29-Aug-12 10:05:03

mumof2, that's it, isn't it?
My Dad died at 62. And we all thought, "Oh, he never got to retire" But that was about all my Dad didn't do! He was well-travelled, successful in his career, raised four children...
Sylvie-Rose didn't even get to smile, walk, talk.
And tomorrow, ds4 starts school and I'll be thinking "I should still have a baby at home and she'll never start school".


You are so right, when James died, one of the things that made me cry was the things that he will never do, he got to be 22, he finished school, but never went on holiday abroad, he never got married, he never had a child. He might of never done those things but he will never get the CHANCE to do any of them.

It hurts so much, all those things that we do and take for granted, our children will never do any of them.

expatinscotland Wed 29-Aug-12 11:54:31

Very true, mum2. An inheritance of loss, a life sentence of bittersweetness and choking back tears to spare your other child or children.

expatinscotland Wed 29-Aug-12 11:55:27

Oh, Mary, on the Great Bake Off. She has three children, but lost her son William, age 19, in a road traffic accident.

Ladies - this afternoon, I had a knock on the door from two Christians - not sure what type - who wanted to discuss whether or not I believed in miracles.

As you might imagine, I politely declined their offer, but all I could really think about was the miracle that I want, which I know is impossible, regardless of how strong any person's faith might be, which is to have Mia back with us, safe and sound, growing and chatting and learning. Not a conversation I really wanted to delve into with two unknown people. I believe I will be with her again one day though.

Would you have done anything differently?

OhDoAdmitMrsDeVere Wed 29-Aug-12 18:25:20

Ds1 is two years younger than Billie.
The first 2 or three years of his life after Billie died are a blur.
Too many thing ps she should have been doing.
It must be harder if a surviving sibling is the same sex sad

I have been forced into cleaning the loft. It's where her things are. It's very hard.
But I found two rolls of film and got them developed. They have a few new pictures of her.
From before she was anywhere near being sick. Even before OH was diagnosed.

We didn't have a clue what was round the corner.

chipmonkey Wed 29-Aug-12 18:31:04

Mias, I would probably have sent them on their way!
I do believe I will see Sylvie-Rose again. I am not sure about how it works other than that. And I don't think anyone can say with any certainty that one faith is better than another. I know there are souls in some form of afterlife and there is a big part of me that thinks that it can't be haphazard, that there must be people in charge, in some way.
My father used to invite the Mormons in and talk to them, very, very loudly in the dining room! He attended Mass weekly along with my mother but I think privately thought the Bible was mainly a work of fiction. Yet I feel fairly sure my Dad is around, chatting to ds4 at times!

chip I am not sure either about what really happens in the afterlife, but hadn't thought about whether or not someone was in charge!!

mrsD oh. Little new glimpses of Billie, of a family life so happy and innocent, so unknowing of the future. Precious and heart-breaking. x

chipmonkey Wed 29-Aug-12 19:52:15

X posts, Mrs D! So difficult for you finding the photos. Like a still shot from a movie before you knew it had a sad ending.

Mias, maybe there's no-one in charge! I can just see it, milling around with fifty billion other people, going "Who's supposed to be minding me?"

expatinscotland Wed 29-Aug-12 20:20:40

'Would you have done anything differently? '

The thing is, none of us saw it coming, did we?

We could only have done things differently if we could go back, knowing what we know now. And we can't. And to me, that's the worst part of it aside from their not being here anymore.

Another child treated in Schehallion for AML died today. She was 15, one year post successful transplant. She relapsed, went for more chemo and died as a result of it.

That's four I know of who had successful transplants, but went on to relapse of their AML and die. There is very little that can be done because the chemo is SO intense and no new drugs so it's all really harsh. So it kills the person, or doesn't work a lot of the time.

There's another we knew from there, a 13-month-old baby. She is fading away at home from her AML. No remission.

Still another person who's 7-year-old nephew is at home dying of AML. He remitted, but relapsed waiting for transplant and no more chemo drugs to treat him.

Would I have done things differently? Everything. If I knew what was coming.

I didn't.

OhDoAdmitMrsDeVere Wed 29-Aug-12 20:32:35

Me too expat
I would have let her go at the beginning. I would have lost those two extra years but they were gained at such a cost.
But what choice did we have.
They were sick. There was a possible cure.
We wanted our children to be cured.

chipmonkey Wed 29-Aug-12 20:48:45

I think any mother, if they thought a treatment would increase the chance of their child surviving even by 1% would go for it. I know I would.
Look at it the other way, if you had declined treatment that could potentially have saved your child's life, and then your child died, you would be thinking that you failed her.

Not the same thing at all but sometimes I see children with lazy eyes in my work. I do therapy to try to improve the lazy eye. It doesn't always work. But it does for some. I actually have very little idea which children it will work for before we start. But most parents will give a try, knowing that there's a chance the child might get 3D vision and a better 'bad" eye.
And that's only vision. When you're talking about life, of course people will try everything for their children, everything.

expatinscotland Wed 29-Aug-12 21:11:13

Absolutely, MrsdeVere. I'd not have gone forward with the transplant and enjoyed the time we had. Of course! Her last 60 days were whatever anyone believes is hell and then some.

But we didn't know it. We went for it because it was the only chance, she might survive. There was still a 50% chance of relapse with successful transplant, and again, I now have come to know several who did have successful transplants, two from siblings, the best you can get, and went on to relapse and die.

I did everything, in the hope that she would live.

She died so awfully to us. But she was unconscious and didn't know.

twinklesunshine Wed 29-Aug-12 21:50:44

Chip, thanks, I have been on the sudc website, was waiting until I had a more concrete cause of death before I contacted them though.

I too am always thinking of the things that he will never do, and as he was so small its endless. I try and comfort myself with the fact that he doesn't know that he is missing anything.

I am having a bad day/evening and have got myself into a bit of state, and no amount of flashpoint or criminal minds seems to be helping! I know why though, a family member is getting married on Saturday, the boys were meant to be page boys, it was planned last year, and now only one of them will be there. They all just think that it will be ok, I get the impression that they think I should be 'getting better' now, 5 months may seem a long time to them but to me its just as hard as it ever was. Ugh.


OhDoAdmitMrsDeVere Wed 29-Aug-12 21:58:31

Twinkle five months is just a blink of an eye sweetheart.
Family events are so difficult. They were impossible for me on the first couple o years. I still avoid them when I can.

My DM kept trying to get me to go to my aunts big birthday bash. It was on Billie's 16th birthday! She didn't get why I didn't want to go.

Tamisara Wed 29-Aug-12 22:02:12

Miasmummy I know you will be reunited with Mia one day xx

twinkle I think that's the most horrible thing - the expectation that you will get better. Sure, life moves on, we move forward, but we don't & can't leave our children behind... the love for them is too intense, too all-consuming to just fade. Love isn't like a firework, that shines bright, then fades, it continues to burn. 5 months is nothing, it really isn't, and I'm sorry that this wedding has stirred up such feelings. I hope it passes as peacefully as it can do, and that you don't face any insensitive comments xx

Chip I wanted your professional advice on something, but will probably message you on FB if possible? Don't worry if not though xx

deemented Wed 29-Aug-12 22:18:19

Hey ladies.

I feel really...weird atm. The boys birthdays are coming up and usually by now, i'm a withering mess. And i don't know why i'm not, but i just feel slightly panicy, a bit detached. It's almost as if he died another lifetime ago.

And to comment on the why? question further upthread.... I looked for the why too.. searched and searched, blamed myself because it was all that i could do... and then a wise lady said to me 'Sometimes it's not about finding the answers. Sometimes it's about learning to live with the questions.' And she was right. Took me a long time to see that though.

chipmonkey Wed 29-Aug-12 23:09:43

twinkle, that's so hard for you! That you should have had two pageboys and now your lovely ds will be there without his brother. Of course you won't be fine with it! It will be a tough day.
My family had a big reunion last year, two days after Chrismas. They all understood that I didn't feel up to it last year but I think they are planning on repeating the thing this year and I still don't know if I want to go. For a start it's on ds3's birthday. Which is not as bad as if it was on Sylvie-Rose's birthday ( Btw, Mrs DeV, I can't believe your mum thought that would be OK!) but I don't like having his birthday forgotten because he happened to be born around Christmas but I know this year my cousin will be there with her baby daughter and it's as much as I can do to see her on FB and "Like" the pictures. She is a lovely baby but I feel so robbed when I look at her.

Tami, ask me anything you like!smile

chipmonkey Wed 29-Aug-12 23:13:03

Sorry, dee!

Is it that you feel that you should feel worse, love? I think even deep grief does alter with time. From what people tell me, it seems to change from what we would call "acute" to "chronic" if you were speaking medically. That it's there in the background all the time but not so sharp.

expatinscotland Wed 29-Aug-12 23:41:30

As regarding Mary the judge in Great British Bake Off, she was very open about her bereavement in a recent interview for Good Housekeeping. Though it has been some years and she now has grandchildren from her other two she said that William is still very much a part of their daily lives and family celebrations and now everytime I see her I think of how she's coped with such a sudden and tragic loss (William did not live long enough to marry/partner and have children).

ILikeToMoveItMoveIt Thu 30-Aug-12 09:02:42

I read an interview with Mary Berry recently where she mentioned her son who died. It's since becoming a bereaved parent that I have realised how many people do lose their children.

I don't think there are many families (within the past two-three generations) who haven't been touched by the loss of a child. I think we talk about it more and are more open with our grief now (although still not open enough IMO) and also expect medical science to be able to help pretty much everyone and every condition.

Maybe I am more aware of it now because I feel part of the club and because I understand what losing a child really feels like. Before I would have the utmost sympathy, but I didn't truly understand.

dee - are you concerned that you should be feeling wobbly, but because you're not you're worried that it's going to hit you like a tonne of bricks when you least expect it?

Tamisara Thu 30-Aug-12 14:06:22

It is 10 months today that Tamsin was born... I am getting irrationally angry on another thread, the rain is pouring here, DD1 has (yet another) cold, and isn't sleeping... aargh!

Hope everyone else is well xx

chipmonkey Thu 30-Aug-12 15:12:38

Tami, I saw that thread. Very frustrating for you, I know.sad Hopefully the OP's baby has just turned to a position with legs kicking in but I'm sure you want to go over there and march her to hospital!

tami <<hugs>> it's only natural that today will be difficult for you. We are getting glimpses of sunshine here, so hoping you will see a Tamsin rainbow before the day is out. Be gentle on yourself. xx

expatinscotland Thu 30-Aug-12 17:39:00

Thinking of lovely Tamsin today ((())).

chipmonkey Thu 30-Aug-12 22:29:18

ds4's first day in school today. In the queue to get into the classroom, I was standing behind two Mums with buggies. I should have a buggy too.

Tami, hope the day passed as gently as it could xxx

expatinscotland Fri 31-Aug-12 00:26:20

Ah, chip!

Had a nap yesterday in A's bed and could swear she was there.

Miss her so, so much.

Two days ago, another girl with AML from the unit died. She was 15, a year post transplant when she relapsed. She chose to go for more chemo, and died from it.

Tamisara Fri 31-Aug-12 10:12:37

Miasmummy, chip & expat Thank you for your kind thoughts xx

I saw the photos of DS4 on FB chip, he looks so grown-up! But so gorgeous still. It's not fair that you didn't have a buggy, what's more, it's not fair that other people (strangers) have no idea that you should have a buggy. I hope DS4 had a good day though, and enjoyed it xx

expat It's only natural that you miss her - she was very beautiful btw. Sorry to hear about the 15yr old xx

I used to watch wildlife documentaries, and think how brutal and cruel nature was. Somehow as 'civilised' humans, we seem above the brutalness of lions chasing us as if gazelles, but now it strikes me that nature has other ways of catching us, and proving life is unfair, no matter how cilvilised we may be. It really is unfair, but then I guess life is not about fairness.

I had a reasonably good day yesterday. We went to the cemetery, DD1 was very excited about going there to see "Tamsin baby". She's funny, she knows that Tamsin is in her grave (though I wonder if she thinks she is a flower), but when asked she points up and say's "Tamsin baby's in the sky". She also recognises her photo. I have no idea what she really thinks, but then she is only just two, so far too young to explain properly.

I've decided to change doctors. My GP has retired, and I just hate going there now. I wanted to change to one nearer, but apparently I'm not in their catchment hmm so I found a new one, even nearer. It will mean changing psychiatrist, so part of me wants to wait till she's back from holiday, the other part just wants to do it - stop procrastinating. I'm also getting rid of bags, scent, and clothes I bought when pregnant with Tamsin. I just don't feel connected to them now.

I met the mother of an 8yr old boy at the cemetery. I'd read about her son in our local paper (he had a brain tumour). He battled for 4 years. She was a lovely lady. She can't have any more children, he was her only one... life really isn't fair xx

3girlies Fri 31-Aug-12 11:41:20

In memory of our lovely DD3 Flora, died on 2nd July following a year long battle with a brain tumour, aged 6yrs 8mths. Still so raw and painful, missing her so much. Love to all of you on this thread. X.

chipmonkey Fri 31-Aug-12 11:49:31

I'll bet Aillidh was there, expat. Sylvie-Rose definitely hung around after she died. I can't "see" things but toys in the boys' bedroom and in the living room moved of their own accord and once, walking through the hall I got her baby smell.
After my Nana died, my Mum saw her shape appear in a doorway and she said "Are ye all alright?" before disappearing again.

expatinscotland Fri 31-Aug-12 12:12:15

I don't believe they ever go away, tbh, chip, but I'm more of a Spiritualist/pagan in many of my beliefs. I don't believe in 'heaven' as a place with defined boundaries. People say Jesus and angels and God are everywhere and with them always, then why not others who have passed on the spirit life? My paternal gran was a Catholic, but she was first a Mayan with beliefs that life was eternal and that those who passed could communicate with us throughout our lives.

3girlies, I know! It is still very raw. Thinking of you and Flora. More and more people we knew from the unit are still sick, dying or have died. It makes me sick and even more so how little funding there is for childhood cancers and brain tumours across the board.

chipmonkey Fri 31-Aug-12 12:44:25

Expat, I don't think they fully go away but I do feel that maybe they get preoccupied with other things as well and pay us less attention on occasion. There are times I feel her presence and my Dad's presence and other times that I feel they're off doing other stuff.
My aunt, after she lost her son, said that she always knew he was there when she was hanging out her clothes on the line. And then one day, he was "gone" But that he came back again.

Sometimes, you really can believe they are here, and that nothing has changed... but how it hurts to return to reality. I haven't felt Mia's presence for a while now. She does visit me occasionally in my dreams, and I like to think that when she isn't here, she is visiting others who love her too. I always feel calmer in the garden though, especially if the blackbird is singing.

twinklesunshine Fri 31-Aug-12 13:40:57

3girlies how was your trip away?

I wish I had felt him near me, I haven't yet.


3girlies Fri 31-Aug-12 17:34:06

twinklesunshine it was fine, went better than we hoped, we just kept focused on the girls and made the best of it. Very sad at times that Flora was not with us, on the beach etc. where other little ones were playing, seeing my other two girls trying their best to get on with it without their little sister, just had a few tears here and there.
Glad we have done the first holiday.
I have thought I had seen her a couple of times, just out of the corner of my eye, then you look properly and she is not there. Also have had one dream where she was with me on her bike smiling away, that is it so far.
Hope you are all getting by. X.

expatinscotland Sat 01-Sep-12 02:33:50

I have been promoting Childhood Cancer Awareness month, which is September, and thus heard of another our consultant's patient's death.

A 5-year-old boy, on 19 August. High-risk ALL, successfully transplanted, relapsed in April, all chemo failed. 3 years, he battled.

Fuck you, cancer!

expatinscotland Sat 01-Sep-12 02:34:34

I knew his mother, from Schehallion.

deemented Sat 01-Sep-12 12:59:52

It's just not fucking fair, is it? sad

chipmonkey Sat 01-Sep-12 16:49:56

The poor family. Too many.sad

Back from sunny Rhodes. We managed to get the two butterflies, who came every afternoon to the pool, to land on my DH's hand - they were enormous and so beautiful. This is the first year that I haven't shed tears that Gareth & Matty weren't with us. We lay in the sun, we swam, we drank too much and we enjoyed our friends company. I never thought the day would come when my memories were more gentle. xxx

expatinscotland Sun 02-Sep-12 11:33:49

Another child from Schehallion, 14-month-old baby girl, who came in this past March, died from AML this morning.

chipmonkey Sun 02-Sep-12 12:19:34

Glad you had a lovely trip, shabs.

expat, so sad about that poor little girl.

Hi all (sorry to see new faces), its been about 8 weeks since I was on here last and about 3 months since Nathan and Stanley were born. I haven't been counting. I can't believe how quickly it has gone. I have been an emotional wreck these last few weeks due to the fact that 2 weeks ago (28/8/12) would have been the boys due date (or at least section date) they were to be delivered 8 weeks early because of all of the probs they were having. I really dont know how we got through that day but we did as we always do. my dd raegan is always asking about her brothers which makes me happy. Kind of, of course. We're having a memorial stone made for each of them that interlocks to put in their garden. Had my consultants check up thing about 3 weeks ago and she basically explained that there is a very high risk of my having twins again and i have a special number to call if I ever find out I'm pregnant again, which i wont. I'm considering going to the drs and asking about sleeping tablets....I honestly haven't had more that 3 hours a night since they were born, but don't know what he'll say, considering....anyone have any experience with asking about this kind of thing....sorry to go on, just needed to get it off my chest. X Kate

frasersmummy Sun 02-Sep-12 22:04:37

no dee its not fucking fair ...why us.. why our kids..what did we do

Kate I was offered sleeping tablets by our GP after Mia died, although I decided against them. I'm sure your own GP would be, or at least should be, extremely sympathetic, especially as you haven't been sleeping for quite some time.

shabba so glad you had a gentle holiday, yet Gareth and Matty still joined you.

expat just too many. Too sad.

I was godmother to a little girl today, the sister of one of Mia's friends. All the ritualised words of prayer seem so separate from daily life, the love and suffering we feel for Mia. Perhaps that's wrong, certainly confused logic, given I feel I will see her again one day...

chipmonkey Mon 03-Sep-12 10:41:33

Kate, I think your GP would fully understand where you are coming from and would be happy to prescribe sleeping tablets. You so need sleep.

Mias, I feel I will see Sylvie-Rose again but a lot of prayers ring very hollow for me now. In the George Anderson book, he does say it is beneficial to pray for those who have died, that it lifts them spiritually. So I pray for the dead on that basis but wonder sometimes if there's any point in praying for the living sad

twinklesunshine Mon 03-Sep-12 12:02:47

I also believe I will see him again, but I struggle with prayers. I have never done them myself, but my husband liked the boys to say their prayers before they went to sleep every night. It was always the same, both said the Lords Prayer (which he knew off by heart at 3!) and then they god bless all their family and friends, its takes ages as he liked to do it by name. The last thing they always said was 'and god bless us boys, A and M, keep us safe while we sleep tonight'. It upsets me even writing it down, M said that every night before he went to sleep since he could talk, and he died in the night in bed. I just dont understand why an innocent little boy who happily said that over and over again was taken like that. I know he probably didnt understand what he was saying, but it was really hard to reconcile it. I cant bare to listen to A say his prayers anymore, as he still says keep me safe as I sleep tonight, and to me I am always now thinking what is the point.

I had that wedding at the weekend, and survived. It wasnt as bad as I thought. They mentioned him in the speeches though as he was meant to be a page boy and so I had to go and hide in the gardens outside for ages and have a good sob. I managed to stay until 10pm which I was proud of.

Had to do the school run today, have barely done it since he died, but thought if I dont get back into it now, when am I going to as I have to go there for the next god knows how many years. It wasnt as bad as I thought.


chipmonkey Mon 03-Sep-12 21:19:45

Twinkle, well done for getting through the day! You are fantastic for finding the strength.

And I can see how that prayer must hurt. xx

expatinscotland Tue 04-Sep-12 10:58:32

I don't pray at all now. I'm not entirely convinced anymore there's anything after this. I like to think so, of course, that I'll see her again, but don't really know.

twinkle those are all huge achievements, I think. Especially the wedding. I am still refusing invitations to go to larger events where I don't know people as I know I will have to explain about Mia and this pregnancy... I used to love meeting new people.

It's silly. I still have problems believing that Mia is gone. That she will never grow up. I can see her in my mind - cheeky grin, funny toddler words, and a crazy red mop of curls. Why, oh why, isn't she here? Acceptance is so impossibly hard.

expatinscotland Tue 04-Sep-12 14:34:37

I agree, twinkle, you've done REALLY well.

I turn stuff down, too, Mia. Don't feel bad about it! You do what you need to do for yourself. ((()))

chipmonkey Tue 04-Sep-12 19:20:53

“I would rather live my life as if there is a God and die to find out there isn't, than live my life as if there isn't and die to find out there is.”
Albert Camus

I have adopted this philosophy as the alternative pretty much kills me. Except perhaps that I would substitute "God" for "afterlife"
And I would prefer to think that children dying as not as bad as it seems because we are infinite beings and the time we have spent here without them is just a drop in the ocean compared to the eternal life we have with them.

And that is really is just a game and we are trying to get to the next level.

But God, just a shred more evidence would be nice!

chip you are very wise... I try, but there are so many holes in my thinking.

Chez12 Tue 04-Sep-12 23:37:27

Had a tough day today. Somedays feel like you have to carry on living as your baby doesn't have that chance, but living without your baby Isn't a chance you want to have.
Missing you Tayden, trying my best, but struggling.
What you went through was heartbreaking. You bought to me unconditional love and your void is so big that I just lost in it.
Thank you for sending your mummy new friends on mums net, butterflies and feathers. I love you my special boy xxxx

chipmonkey Wed 05-Sep-12 11:42:07

<<<Hugs>> chez.

Oh my goodness. I was listening to the radio in the car and it was a programme about Ireland years ago where stillborn babies or babies who died before being baptised were not buried in consecrated ground but had to be buried in places called cilini. They used to say these babies didn't go to Heaven but to limbo.

One such place is Oilean Na Mara, ( The island of the dead) off the coast of Donegal.

One lady talked about her great-aunt who knew the very spot where her child was buried and used to walk across to the island at low tide ( you couldn't at high tide) ti visit her baby until she got too old and infirm when she used to just look across from the mainland. Heartbreaking. And it would have happened to millions of women.

expatinscotland Wed 05-Sep-12 15:06:22

Chip, I would have cried listening to that!

Going to see our girl at the cemetary this weekend.

Miss her so, so much.

Know what you mean, Mia, exactly what you mean!

Chez, I'm sorry you had to find us. I read the story of your beautiful Tayden. ((())). We're here for support.

chipmonkey Wed 05-Sep-12 15:26:41

Mias, I think there are holes in our thinking because there are supposed to be holes. We are not meant to know what's going on. At the moment, I feel like my life is too much like a badly-written soap to actually be real. There has simply got to be something else, seriously!

Oh, expat, I did cry! I often think it's symptomatic of allowing any organisation to be run by single men, to them, women and babies were abstract ideas, they had not direct contact with them so fine to theorise about human beings. The heartlessness of saying that unbaptised babies go to limbo and not to heaven!

expatinscotland Wed 05-Sep-12 15:32:36

Princess Di's mother had a full-term, stillbirth baby and also one who died shortly after birth. At the time, of course, she was separated from them immediately. Decades later, she said her arms ached to hold those babies. sad

chipmonkey Wed 05-Sep-12 15:57:29

there was another woman on the radio a while back ( I really should stop listening to the radio!) who had given birth to a baby with severe special needs. She was told the baby had died but found out years later that she had lived for four days and then died alone sad She was so angry with the nuns in charge of the hospital who had denied her the chance to hold her baby and give her a decent burial.

chip yes, it might be an idea to turn off the radio for a while... such sad stories. That this sort of cruelty was possible, in the name of "humanity" or "decency" or '"religion", or however the flimsy excuse is framed.

As part of my existentialistic angst at the moment, I am wondering if I am supposed to have learnt anything from Mia's life and death. Otherwise, why it it happen? However, I simply cannot think of any lesson that needed such a terrible outcome, such a tragic cost. I knew that life was unfair, I knew that people can show incredible love and support when least expected, I even knew how love I would love my child even before she was born... ok, I didn't know how much pain and grief was possible, but that seems such a stupid, pathetic, and unnecessarily cruel reason to do this to my beautiful Mia, and to all our wonderful children.

expatinscotland Thu 06-Sep-12 11:21:35

The idea that things like this happen to people in order to teach those affected something is wrong. Totally, completely wrong.

What did I learn? Like you know, I already knew that life is unfair, fragile, not to be taken for granted, etc.

And every single person I knew from her unit who has lost their child was well aware of that, too.

One couple there, they tried for years to conceive, finally becoming parent via adoption, only for their daughter to be afflicted with cancer and unable to find a bone marrow donor as of yet. The father is a doctor who used to spend all his holidays helping women in his native country access healthcare they otherwise could not.

So if there's any lesson to be learned, it's that if there's a god, he's/she's pretty shit.

chipmonkey Thu 06-Sep-12 12:28:00

But we don't know who we are, do we? We only know who we think we are. I don't know if this was an accidental tragedy or a lesson. If we have many lives, then why next time, could the roles not be reversed, for example, so that Sylvie-Rose could be my mother, I could die young so that she could learn the lesson? I had this feeling she had been here before, that I knew her, also with ds2.
And I knew how good people could be before she died but I didn't know it first-hand. I did not know this pain of separation, I couldn't even imagine it. Certainly if I ever did imagine it, I was way off the mark, compared to the reality I now know.
And I never sought out spirituality like I'm doing now. I feel weirdly "expanded"
And I respect intellectuality a lot less. Give me a good soul any day over a clever mind!

expatinscotland Thu 06-Sep-12 12:41:21

I have never known who I am. It changes all the time. I did know life was unfair and all that.

I don't believe in reincarnation.

She died. There's no lesson, no reason why it happened, etc etc. Don't beat yourself up thinking there is, MAM. Shit happens.

expatinscotland Thu 06-Sep-12 12:42:04

I should add, shit happens and it happened to us.

Thanks ladies - I really just wanted to hear if others also thought that the 'lesson' idea was complete tosh too. I think I will resort back to "I don't understand. I will never understand." There is no meaning in losing Mia. It just hurts, and it always will.

The next thought I am exploring is "Better to have loved and lost than never loved at all". Sorry if I am subjecting you all to weird type of debating / philosophy class... I really have no idea how I feel about this. The best I can come up with is that whoever thought of this saying never had our experiences...

expatinscotland Thu 06-Sep-12 13:03:26

I don't agree with better to have loved and lost, either. I've known people who have committed or attempted suicide following bereavement of their child. Right there, better to have loved and lost is a pile of steamin' poo.

I've not heard platitudes like this trotted out by those who have lost a child. Usually by people whose experience of loss is pets or an older adult. Because it's a pretty wanky thing to say to someone who's lost a young child.

chipmonkey Thu 06-Sep-12 14:06:00

I don't agree, expat. I am glad we had Sylvie-Rose even though we lost her. I feel privileged to have known her. I hate, hate hate that I've lost her but if I had the choice to either never have had her, to have stopped having children after ds4, or to do it all again with all the pain, I'd do it all again.

chipmonkey Thu 06-Sep-12 14:12:54

Don't get me wrong, losing her has been utterly shite and the worst thing that could happen. But never having had her, is something I wouldn't choose now, with hindsight.

expatinscotland Thu 06-Sep-12 15:33:19

But you don't have that choice, chip. That's why IMO it's a ridiculous platitude. It's speculative on emotions you don't get a choice to feel.

Any one of us would go back if we could, and in that case we'd do things differently. That may have well resulted in a different outcome.

But it's a moot point.

expatinscotland Thu 06-Sep-12 15:42:59

People say, 'You have to move on.' Duh. You can't freeze time anymore than you can go backwards in it (at least, not by any means known to mankind). But why chase your tail examining platitudes written by someone else from the benefit of their own experience (in Tennyson's, as a man in the 19th century who never married)? It changes nothing. Part of moving on is accepting that my child is dead, and nothing in the world will change that now, and that because of this, part of me is dead, too. Again, nothing can change that. There is no choice but to continue forward in time for the sake of her brother and sister.

I do agree with MAM, there's no understanding it. It just happened.

expatinscotland Thu 06-Sep-12 15:43:37

Sorry, Lord Tennyson did marry. Duh!

expatinscotland Thu 06-Sep-12 20:12:03

I think the other issue is that my daughter died after 7 months of horrendous pain, illness and suffering. IF there are a magic police box, no, I'd rather have no had her at all than have her go through that again. No chance. It was awful on her.

fioled Thu 06-Sep-12 20:26:19

I see your point expat but I'm with chip - without this shitty experience, I wouldn't have had Belle at all. What I had of her is precious. I'm not sure I'm in the 'lesson' or 'reason' camp, I don't understand why this happened to my family, I'm angry Belle was taken away, but I'm thankful I have a daughter, even if it isn't in the way it should be.

Such expressions of love, albeit totally different, from you both chip and expat. Thank you for sharing them. Me, I waver, between being so glad, selfishly, that I was able to experience the love and joy and daily exhilaration that Mia brought me, and desperately sad for her, that her life was cut short so unfairly and that her life experiences were limited to 13 months.

expatinscotland Thu 06-Sep-12 20:36:17

I'm very grateful to have had her. But she suffered tremendously, so if there were a chance to have her again, much as we loved her, I'd not because, to me, it would be unfair and selfish given what she went through the last 7 months of her life. Her chemo was one of the most intense, awful protocols in existence, and she was terribly ill. There's no way in good conscience I could do that to a child of mine.

It's a moot point, though.

chipmonkey Thu 06-Sep-12 23:29:38

I think he meant love in the sense of falling in love with someone though, didn't he? As it better to have loved the woman of your dreams, even if she did go off with the milkman in the end! It's probably not something I would ever say to any bereaved person tbh.
And no, I don't have that choice. But I had a life before Sylvie-Rose. And I have the life after, the half-life. And then there was the bit in the middle which was too good to miss. smile
Don't forget about all the lovely years she did have expat. Yes, the last months were utterly shit, for her and for you. But in time, I hope, you may be able to remember the good times and actually smile. I'm not there yet, either.

expatinscotland Fri 07-Sep-12 00:59:10

Today is 2 calendar months since she died.

227 days after her diagnosis.

expatinscotland Fri 07-Sep-12 01:38:42

I'm sometimes there, chip. So many happy memories. I try not to think, of those 7 months, or how I behaved in them. Alone by necessity, scared beyond belief, her protocol meant she spent VERY much time in strict isolation and the ILs, hmm, again, we no longer speak to them. Their actions spoke volumes.

I try not to think post 11 May, her day of transplant.

But it's very hard. I watched her die. A slow, strangling, painful death until she was put out the 9 days before. The day she went on that vent! Oh god! I went to her cons. I rang the nurses station in Schehallion. Forbidden phone, I went into the vestibule and rang. I was always calm, they knew that. I said, 'Please, someone find Professor B*** G**** and tell her her patient is dying up here! She is tachy to 217, her BP is through the roof. Please someone get her! She is sick of 6 times in an hour, I have had to threaten the nurse with her cons and stand guard on the sick bowls.'

I texted my husband who'd been all up with her and a mate whom I knew was across the hall, to get him in five minutes if he did not wake. Her daughter a little older than A has lost her left arm to Ewing's sarcoma now and if it recurs then she dies.

Professor was up in minutes with one of her very large trainees. Took a look at her sats and gave orders, he was to stay with me. She told nurse as much and that he was under her authority. By this time I was on forename basis with her, per her request. I begged apology, for disturbing her, she said, 'I am her consultant, and I am a professor. The final decision is mine. I take on board what they say, but I decide. You stay here, I will come back for you and Rob.'

It was like being in the presence of Professor Dumbledore.

She still died.

I held that professor; she is still, of her own volition, my friend, an extreme rarity, if others' experiences and those of even her closest colleagues are anyhing to go on. Even her protege who arrived at 1AM said, 'I'm supposed to be comforting you!'

Why did she die? Who knows?

Do I believe in an afterlife? Absolutely.

Would I do it again, a silly question? Yes, but only if I could go with what I have now, and evidence of such.

So a moot point.

What is the meaning of it all? I have no idea.

Morning girls xx

Expat it is 30 years since my 7 month old twin son died. He was born with overwhelming heart problems but fought for 7 months. His twin is got married in August to his lovely girlfriend of 12 years. They have a son who is 4.

It is 20 years since my DS3 (almost 8 years old) was knocked down and killed by a lorry. He was my baby who 'brought the sunshine back.' He was killed outside our house on the first time he was allowed to play outside the garden. I daren't think about the sight that met me that sunny afternoon. I tried to remember it a few days ago and I was physically sick.

Then we had DS4 (now 15) he is our double rainbow!!!

Many, many years have passed since our sons died. I can honestly say that this year, on holiday, I did not shed a single tear that they had died BUT I spent many hours thinking about them with a smile on my face.

What I am trying to say, in a very clumsy way, is that there will come a time (for everybody on this thread) when 'the edges' blurr a little and happier memories rise to the surface. However, I would not swop those awful early days of grief, the hours of crying, pounding headaches and the realisation every day of what has happened, I wouldn't swop them for a trillion pounds.

I wanted to say the words that I used to hate people saying to me - 'Time heals'. I know you have all probably just thrown things at the screen, and give me a v sign or two. Time does heal - slowly, bit by bit.

matildawormwood Fri 07-Sep-12 07:56:26

Thank you Shabba. I think I needed to hear that. I know it makes some people angry when people say time heals but not me... I definitely wouldn't want to hear it from someone who hadn't lost a child but I think you've earned the right to say it. If I thought I would always feel this bad I don't think I would want to go on. Love to all. Sorry I don't post very often but I do read and you are all in my thoughts xxx

chipmonkey Fri 07-Sep-12 10:16:49

morning folks xx

expatinscotland Fri 07-Sep-12 14:42:39

some people say it does, some that it doesn't. it was 74 years after her first child's death that my grandmother died. she did have 5 other children, and a good life, but she admitted she was still as devestated as ever over losing Luisa.

i think kevin wells put it well. he said time does not heal, but it anaesthetises.

i wouldn't trade her, absolutely not, but if there were a magic box and i could go back in time i would not have had her, simply because of the great deal of suffering her cancer caused her. a moot point, though.

and it's not a given, either, how much time any of us has left.

recently, a great neighbour and friend of my mother's passed away. her 6-year-old son drowned in 1979. she died of cancer and knew it was coming and was happy to be, in her belief, soon to be reunited with her son. but her last words were, 'It was too short.'

expatinscotland Fri 07-Sep-12 14:43:57

Our other children give us focus. It's simply not a possibility to become catatonic with grief because they are so young they have many needs.

ILikeToMoveItMoveIt Fri 07-Sep-12 15:11:51

The hospital memories should become less consuming expat. after Cole died I had flashbacks numerous times a day and always when I was trying to get to sleep. I would say after 6 months they started to lessen in number and even more by about a year. I still get them most days, but mostly they don't have the power or intensity anymore.

We always tried to come up with a reason why Cole got sick and then why the transplants and treatment didn't work. I think the only conclusion we could come up with was, bad luck. Seemingly simple, but no other explanation made sense.

Mogwai200 Fri 07-Sep-12 15:38:39

very interesting comments here ladies. I've not posted for ages but I'm always checking in on you all.
I'm grateful for Shabba's reassurances too. I know it would be impossible to carry on the way you feel in the earliest stages of grief.
I too, hope that the hospital memories fade. It's been 8 months since my wee 5 year old angel died in hospital and it haunts me every time I close my eyes. I long for the days when I can just think about his life instead of his death.

chipmonkey Fri 07-Sep-12 15:48:24

That's why I think fioled and Mias are amazing as are all the ladies who lost their first or only child. I think if I didn't have to get up for the boys and get them to school, get their meals, what would I have done? I might very well have been a total basket-case.
Going on, when you don't have to and wouldn't be expected to, is truly amazing.

expatinscotland Fri 07-Sep-12 17:53:17

'The hospital memories should become less consuming expat.'

They already are. And it was a small part of her life, but what I posted was in the context of 'Better to have loved and lost . . . ' and, in her case, assuming hypothetical time travel, I would say no, just because she did suffer greatly. But there isn't.

Sort of on the lines with MrsDeVere, who would have let her child go had she known what the 2 years of hell would be like and then her child died.

But of course, none of us knew. We did what we did to try to save them.

And I don't think there's a big lesson in it all or that peoples' children die to teach them something and I hope lovely people liek Mia's mum don't trouble themselves trying to find one.

It just happens.

expatinscotland Fri 07-Sep-12 17:54:48

It is amazing, chip. When my gran's daughter died, she also lost her young husband. She had to walk to another country because the disease that claimed them took most of the villagers where she lived and there was no one to work, no work and scarce food. I'm staggered she found the strength to do that.

chipmonkey Fri 07-Sep-12 23:44:27

She sounds like an amazing woman, expat.

expatinscotland Fri 07-Sep-12 23:48:24

Amazing as the mothers here.

Tomorrow, the third girl to die of AML this year from A's unit will be laid to rest.

She was born 22 April 2011 and diagnosed in March, 2012.

We're going to visit A's lair and set off balloons for each girl. And have a picnic, of course.

If the stonemason's office is open we'll stop in, too, and start creating her headstone.

chipmonkey Sat 08-Sep-12 00:05:01

So bloody cruel.

At Sylvie-Rose's funeral, the priest said "Sylvie-Rose didn't get a fair shot"
So many little people who didn't get a fair shot.

OrangeandGoldMrsDeVere Sat 08-Sep-12 08:10:30

I still can't think of Billie well.
I only ever dream of her ill
Her death was not traumatic in the way that many of you have had to endure.
But her illness was and I am forever stuck with the image of my child , beautiful but frail and being broken by the treatment supposed to save her.

ILikeToMoveItMoveIt Sat 08-Sep-12 08:19:34

It's cruel isn't is MrsDV.

Cole died when he was 15mo and was ill and having operations and undergoing treatment for half of his short life, so my memories are mostly of him when he was ill. I have to really think about his early months as the memories that spring to mind are pretty much from when he was ill.

My guess is it's some type of PTSD. I lived the last 7 months of his life mostly on adrenaline, fear and sadness.

expatinscotland Sat 08-Sep-12 09:36:42

What MrsDeVere and ILike said. Especially this: 'I lived the last 7 months of his life mostly on adrenaline, fear and sadness.' Yy. Her last two months. She cried at a vid clip of a flashmob. She was leaving the world. She'd cry sometimes and say she was afraid to die. All I could do was slip into bed with her and hold her and tell her everything would be allright.

So ill, broken and frail.

chipmonkey Sat 08-Sep-12 10:10:51

A child should never have to fear death.

expatinscotland Sat 08-Sep-12 10:23:31

She did. Until the day she was made unconscious via sedation after being put on a vent. She woke once, after it was in. Her eyes were wild with fear. DH and I were there, we held her and stroked her and told her it would all be allright until more sedation kicked in. She never woke again and died 8 days later.

OrangeandGoldMrsDeVere Sat 08-Sep-12 10:25:54

It is PTSD.
I have it.
And it's like being at war. Having a child so sick. Long periods of boredom interspersed with intense periods of extreme stress and terror. Back to the boredom of sitting around with no time to debrief from the last 'battle' because you have to try and live a normal life while you can.
The boredom itself is not peaceful because yor stress levels are so abnormally high you learn not to recognise how stressed you are, even at 'rest'

Men who were in WW1 may 'only' have been at the front for 18mths or 2 years. But that time defined them for the rest of their lives.

I believe my cortisol levels have been forever altered. My physiology is different.
The way that children who have experienced early trauma become flat and hard to arouse but actually remain hyper vigilant. Our standards have changed. It takes a lot to wake us but when the button is pushed its like being back at the front.

If that makes any sense.

expatinscotland Sat 08-Sep-12 10:31:40

Makes perfect sense to me, MrsDeVere. Yy, the chemo she had was 7-10 days of 3 different drugs - all via Hickman line. She'd be sick during it and then really sick the weeks after, as the counts crashed and slowly rose again. She only got home 3 times in 7 months, and 2 of those were long weekends. And you tried to pack as much in as possible while avoiding infection and again, more drugs. Over a hundred days in strict isolation. Just her and me.

The last 11 days of her life, in ICU, I truly wished to die. So exhausted, so drained, as after her transplant she took infection after infection. I wanted to go to sleep and never wake up.

I lost over 2 stone in weeks. Still haven't put it back on, either.

I had no fear of death even then.

chipmonkey Sat 08-Sep-12 21:08:54

I would love to be able to give you two stone of my weight, expat. I have put lots of weight on since she died. Comfort eating that brings no comfort.

We went to the beach today. It was 25 degrees so we went to the beach only to get frozen!
The walk down from the top of the cliff would have been very difficult to negotiate, had we had the buggy we should have had.
The boys had a lovely time though and we found one of her signature white feathers amongst the dock leaves after ds4 managed to sting his legs with nettles on the walk back. Ds4 insisted on picnicking down on the beach instead of at the top of the dunes so now the picnic basket is full of sand.

expatinscotland Sat 08-Sep-12 21:31:04

That sounds lovely, chip! Glad you got a good day out. Wow, a white feather! Definitely Spirit sending a message, IME.

We went to visit her lair, taking along the balloons for the girls. It was soooo windy. The balloons, we really had to hang onto them and they shot, I mean, shot, up into the sky! Aila's was absolutely pegging it!

Then, the wind stopped.

It was raining as we drove through. That stopped as well.

expatinscotland Sat 08-Sep-12 21:37:08

For those of you who have permanent memorials, what is your experience of colour of lettering?

I had a wander around the cemetary, it's very large, and particularly, the pinky granite stones. White lettering we will definitely not go for! Am thinking gold or black.

Any experiences?

As the kids were playing near her lair, a family of a man, woman and little girl about A's age came in through a gate. The woman stopped and offered her condolenscences. Said she'd seen the wee cross at A's site and read it (It reads her name, dates of birth and death, Beloved Daughter and Sister to Roisin and Struan, Taken by Acute Myeloid Leukaemia) and pointed to where her 5-year-old daughter lay, just up the hill, died of bacterial meningitis last year.

So, so many children in that cemetary, and young people with 'Brother, Nephew, Son' no issue of their own.


whiteandyelloworchid Sat 08-Sep-12 22:04:10

hi, i lost my beautiful boy back i feb, he died shortly after he was born, due to massive heart problems.
he was beautiful had his dads feet and ears.
my face shape, and i could a resemblence of my dad
for some reason i don't feel comfortable saying his name on a public forum,even though i reaslise my details will probably make me quite outtable in rl.
so i will call my son baby orchid on here.

we have a beautiful lovely funny kind dd aged five, shes been through the mill and really felt the loss.
feel guilty that shes had to have experience with death at her tender age
i know shes knows i'm sad and that kinda kills me tbh

the world seems to have changed for me, good things just don't seem as good anymore.
the grass doesnt even seems as green anymore
like wearing sunglasses are something that just makes things seem different now

i think of my son every day
and i know i will until the day i die
and i will always always feel sad hes not here anymore

my pregnancy with my son started out as a twin pregnancy and i lost one of them around 8 and a half weeks, that twin did not leave the womb though, she, and i say she, only because i have a feeling she was a girl
mad i know
the drs said i would probably reabsorb the first twin we lost, and on future scans we had the twin had seem deemed to have dissapered
she ended up being engulfed into the placenta, and when my son had his post mortom, the patholagist found my sons twin.
so both my twins were actually buried together.
in my local churchyard, had a beautiful chirch service for my son

we should be getting my sons headstone anyday now, probably in the next two weeks

two weeks ago, i had a mc, thought i was 12 and a half weeks started bleeding, went to hospital and was told baby had died about a week ago, that teeny tiny baby from the mc actually came out complete, so we buried him or her in a large planter in out garden
still bleeding a tiny bit from that, so all in all its been a terrible 12 months

we keep trying to carry on, but its so so hard, we have actually just tonight been out for a meal and mariah careys song, give my all, came on.
and it was the best i could do to not burst into tears then and there
and all i can think about is my son, and how i would give my all to have just one more night with him.

just feel so so lost sad

i am so so sorry that all you others have lost a child too, sure fucking sucks

expatinscotland Sat 08-Sep-12 23:18:58

Hello, whiteandyellow, you and your son are always welcome here, no matter what, you don't need to name names if you don't want to. Sorry for your loss.

Thank you for sharing your story of him and of your family.


expatinscotland Sat 08-Sep-12 23:21:29

FWIW, I am mother to beautiful Aillidh. She died, age 9, following stem cell transplant for treatment of acute myeloid leukaemia, of respiratory failure from two lung infections and 11 days in ICU, in hospital from 1 May 2012.

whiteandyelloworchid Sat 08-Sep-12 23:37:58

thankyou for the welcome.
i'm hopeless at keeping up with threads with lots of people pn at the best of times
let alone how i am at the moment unable to concentrate, i repeat myself alot, and i'm not anywhere near as articulate as most people on here.
just feel woefully inadequate, after all my son grew in my body, and he didnt grow properly
one thing ive always felt good at since having dd is being a good mum, one thing i though i could do really well.

the other day we were playign bettle, dd and myself, she was actually trying to let me win, as she knows im sad even though i try to protect her as much as i can.
that really breaks my heart
i worry how it all will effect her

thanks for listening to my story

i know your story expat, i prayed for your aillidh many many times times. i'm sorry they didn't work, i'm just in awe of you really, must have been terrible to see your beloved dd suffer like that for so long.
my heart truely and deeply goes out to you
i am so very very sorry for your loss.

the overriding i feeling i feel is simply lost.
completey lost

expatinscotland Sun 09-Sep-12 03:06:23

You are not alone, whitendyellow. We are here to support you.xx

deemented Sun 09-Sep-12 09:39:47

I have no words for anyone today. I am consumed in the depths of my own grief and i am wallowing. I feel so so sad.

I can't believe that eight years ago, Ciaran had been born and was already dead. Gone forever. I want him here. I want him to be fighting with his twin over who plays the new x-box first. I want to see him laughing and joking with his siblings. I want him. The ache is so great and it hurts so much.

The time we had with him was far too short. I miss my baby.

Dee wish I could say the right words that would help....there are no right words. Just to say I am thinking about you today and sending my love xxx

Helyantha Sun 09-Sep-12 11:00:14

Dee (()) No words, just love x

ILikeToMoveItMoveIt Sun 09-Sep-12 13:19:01

Welcome whiteandyellow. so very sorry for your loss. I understand why you don't want to put your children's names on here. You may not feel like it, but you are articulate. You have been through so much with your son and your miscarriage, I should imagine it feels like the world is against you at the moment. Your daughter sounds very intuative and compassionate, you are clearly an amazing mummy. Keep posting here, come and say whatever you want or feel. Probably more than one of us has felt that way at some point.

ILikeToMoveItMoveIt Sun 09-Sep-12 13:21:15


Such a hard day for you today. I'm sending love and strength your way and I will be lighting a candle for Ciaran.

whiteandyelloworchid Sun 09-Sep-12 17:50:17

wish i could offer some words to comfort you.
but i know there are none

thanks for the wolcome and telling me i'm not alone.
its very isolating in rl.
even when i get invited to things i wonder if people are asking me as they feel obliged but they dont actuaclly really want me to come

suppose i just can't really believe this is my life
this has actually happened

frasersmummy Sun 09-Sep-12 18:19:53

aww dee .... I have lit a candle here for your darling ciaran

days like this take you right back to that fateful day dont you

we are all here for you

Love to you dee, remembering Ciaran. We saw lots of cloud kisses in the sky today, I'm sure some of them were being sent to you.

whiteandyellow keep writing here, remembering your beautuful baby orchid. That feeling of disbelief and unreality is so very common. How can our lives change like this?

fioled Mon 10-Sep-12 11:10:26

Just sending love for you dee xx

I had a very odd experience last night. Yes, I think it could be easily explained away, but at the same time, I wonder... I woke up in the darkness because my touch-sensitive bedside light was on. Thinking I had fallen asleep with it on, I turned it off. However, this kept on happening throughout the night. Finally, I decided blearily that perhaps it was Mia wanting me to look at her photo on the bedside table, and so I left it on. This morning, I told DH about it, and he looked over and said practically "Well, the photo frame is touching the light base." Yes, that makes sense - until I realised that normally, there is normally a book which also touches the light base, which doesn't cause the light to turn on.

My emotional, non-logical side of me wants to think it is Mia helping me prepare for her birthday on Saturday, telling me that she is also sending us light and love...

chipmonkey Mon 10-Sep-12 17:53:27

Mias, that was Mia! She does that, do you remember her "talking" to her little friend through that photo and telling her about your new baby?

3girlies Mon 10-Sep-12 18:49:47

Today I returned to work after a two year gap during which time I supported my ill husband, then my lovely Flora who died 10 weeks ago today today after battling a brain tumour for a year. Thought it would feel like a massive step, but it felt ok really - I did not cry once though I talked about Flora a little, that usually does it! I am amongst friends there which is very important at the moment, so see how it goes, hours to suit me which is something. It meant that I did not think about Flora for every moment of the day too which is what I would do if I was at home. Glad to have made the step. Missing Flora so desperately otherwise. Love to you all on here. X.

chipmonkey Mon 10-Sep-12 20:19:55

3girlies, I'm glad you have support at work. My workmates have been wonderful as have most of my clients. I don't know that working fully takes my mind off her but it does keep my mind occupied, at least.
expat, we haven't organised Sylvie-Rose's headstone yet but it will be like fioled's for B. in terms of colours, raspberry pink engraving on white granite. I hope to visit a memorial artist some time this week.

expatinscotland Mon 10-Sep-12 21:56:48

I'm with chip here, MAM smile. Mia was there.

3girlies, well done! 10 weeks already? Thinking of Flora, we're not far behind you.

Keep up the good work.

Dee how are you doing?

chipmonkey Mon 10-Sep-12 23:42:14

We got a letter today from the hospital where Sylvie-Rose was born, inviting us to a service for all the babies who were miscarried, stillborn or died shortly after birth. I don't want to go. I am going to go to the one in the hospital where they tried to save her which is a different hospital.
I am probably being unreasonable. But I think if they could have waited a couple more weeks before discharging her, maybe she'd still be here. And I wouldn't have a section in my wardrobe full of tiny pink dresses and outfits that she never grew into.
The second hospital, they did their best to save her. They re-started her heart. It was too late. But they tried.
I wonder if the first hospital tried hard enough. Or did they just look at a baby who had given them little trouble and just assume she would be OK?

expatinscotland Tue 11-Sep-12 00:27:32

DON'T go if you don't feel it in your heart, chip! We went to the one, for all those in the unit where Aillidh was treated who have died in the past 5 years. They don't go past that, although they invite speakers and readers, because, being an onco unit, they'd be there all day.

Go with your heart and don't feel bad about it.

We felt comfortable going because we knew our cons did anything and everything, she's amazing and brilliant, a professor who goes over and beyond the call of duty for her patients, as does her close colleague, I am privileged those two are in touch and shared details to remain so with me, and many of the nurses there, who came, always, on their breaks, up to PICU once she went, day after day. Two by two. And anytime I asked, they'd call up. They could not be turned away. The ward sisters and senior nurses as well. The kinder nurses in PICU would well rope them in, which they were more than happy to do, to change the syringe drivers, participate in care for her, and answer questions.

Even at her funeral, her very busy consultant and so many of the nurses who were off came, some of them having been there for over 30 years.

This first hospital didn't offer that to Sylvie-Rose, chip (I keep thinking, 'What a BEAUTIFUL name!). So don't feel you're being unreasonable and go with your heart and don't go.

There is no wrong in this, chip. You lost your Sylvie-Rose, and will be thinking about what might have been if that first hopsital had behaved differently.

You are well within your rights to just not go.

Be kind to yourself and your family. You don't need added stress. You don't want to go, so don't.


chipmonkey Tue 11-Sep-12 01:03:58

I put the letters in the recycling, expat. They sent two in error.
There were some wonderful staff in that hospital. Some lovely, dedicated, hardworking doctors and nurses. But tbh, some others that didn't care enough.

I love her name. And dammit, if you have a beautiful name, you really should get to use it for more than seven weeks. You deserve to write it on your school book, sign your cheques with it, sign it on a lease, on a title deed.

Or maybe she would have hated it and changed it to Jane as soon as she turned 18!

expatinscotland Tue 11-Sep-12 01:46:06

I don't think she'd have hated such a well-thought-out name. Oh, it's so very beautiful!

Chuck the letters in recyling and thank the nurses and staff privately.

Don't beat yourself up. Sylvie-Rose deserved the very best as you saw fit and see fit now. If you're not comfortable with going, well, as my mates John and Gillian put it, there's no right or wrong when it comes to the death of a young child.

whiteandyelloworchid Tue 11-Sep-12 22:05:51

mias mummy, i would def take that as a sign, ive felt a few things which i feel are signs, i feel like ive felt my sons presence right up close to my cheek about three times, sort of a coolness rightnext to my cheek.
the feeling i felt at the time, was he was trying to let me know hes ok.

then one evening, as i was watering the pots in the garden, i sat on the swing bench and looked up at the sky, and in th whole sky i could only see two stars, one higher and brighter and one smaller, this was before i had this mc.

and i thought thats my son and his twin, again it felt like sending me a message, telling me they are ok.

a few of the thigns that have happened recently, the feeling i get is still letting me know they are ok, but also i sense worrying about me, and if i'm ok.

so its noce to be able to talk about these kinds of things with others, as people in rl think you have gone totally bonkers, i know my parents think i have, as they say if you look for signs you will see them, but i feel them too.

si i've found it intersting to read on these boards about feathers, as i've notied alo of feather before, not not really made the conection
i shall now be on the look out fo feathers

chip sounds like a wise descion not to go.

been looking for something like this, something to put on the tree at christmas to remember out son.

whiteandyelloworchid Tue 11-Sep-12 22:10:40

but fancy something silver or glass
i'd like it to say in loving memory of baby orchid
his date of birth

then something like always loved always remembered, in our hearts at christmastime and always

maybe in a dove or angel design or a heart or something.

something like the one i linked but thats not quite right

chipmonkey Tue 11-Sep-12 23:42:21

white, that is a lovely idea. Last Christmas, my cousin and my other cousin's wife sent me angels for the Christmas tree. A neighbour also sent me a decoration in the shape of an angel's wings. I treasure them and and will always think kindly of the people who sent them to me. There is a facebook page, Angel memories, I think which do things like that. I'll double check the name.

expatinscotland Tue 11-Sep-12 23:43:51

Orchid, those are gorgeous! We're getting one made of Aillidh's handprint.

Feeling very low today.

On Saturday, our fortnightly ceilidh dancing evenings in the village hall will resume. Aillidh loved these nights. So did her younger sister. So we're going. For her sister who's still alive.


chipmonkey Tue 11-Sep-12 23:46:36

this is the link to the page. They do lots of nice little things.

chipmonkey Tue 11-Sep-12 23:58:47

X-Posts expat.
sad that will be so, so hard for you. And Ceilidhs are full of happy, joyous music too. My Dad was part of an organisation here in Ireland, Comhaltas Ceoltoiri Eirinn, and at his funeral loads of the musicians turned up and played Irish music. He loved lots of different tunes but they played this one ( my Dad played the fiddle really well]] and also this one which my Dad would sing once he had a few whiskeys in him!
One of my cousins afterwards said "The happy music was sadder than the sad music!"
And it will be hard for you, to hear the music and know that she would have loved to be there! But most likely she will be there with you, expat, she won't want to miss it.
And you are wonderful to go for R. I think our other children end up dragging us along this road by the hand whether we want to walk or not!

Minione Wed 12-Sep-12 06:34:36

Hi ladies, will check thread properly but just a quick hello.

Remembering Malachy Aidan who would be two now. All my love my angel.

minione are your Malachy and my Mia are very close in age? Her 2nd birthday is on Saturday. Maybe they are chatting together, being naughty, but sending us both love and light. <<hugs>>

expat ceilidhs are such exuberant events, the dancing, the movement. I can see how it will be so hard to go along. But it's one of those things you do, even though your heart is breaking, because you know it's right.

chip right decision about the hospital. I am much more definite about not doing stuff unless it feels right for me, and it's simply too bad if that surprises or upsets others... And I can't imagine that Sylvie-Rose would ever want to change such a lovely name!!

whiteandyellow that is simply beautiful. Last Christmas, I wanted to buy crystal stars for each of the family Christmas trees, but I found gorgeous gold, silver and copper-covered leaves which seemed more appropriate for Mia. Yesterday I found a gold leaf pendant in a shop, and will go back to buy more as stocking presents from Mia.

3girlies amazed and humbled by your story, and the fact you are now back at work after all you have been through. Hope it continues to go well.

Three quite notable events for me yesterday 1/ We have now signed the papers for Mia's Wood, after the legals got stuck over the right wording of a covenant about never developing the land... such a relief. So the plans for a picnic there with Mia's friends on Saturday can go ahead. 2/ I had a 28 week scan, and baby is developing well. When I saw the scan photo of a perfect profile shot of my baby, I just fell in love. It looks so real - and looks a little like Mia too. 3/ Went to a friend's birthday dinner, and met another lady who lost her daughter as a teenager. She was so kind and lovely and wise, and generous to us both. But all I could think - oh god, there are so many of us, too many of us...

chipmonkey Wed 12-Sep-12 10:40:45

Happy Birthday, Malachy xx

Mias, it must have been so lovely to see your baby and comforting to see him/her looking like Mia. Do you know what flavour or is it going to be a surprise?

chip yes, we are keeping it a surprise. Like we did with Mia, we asked the sonographer at the 20 week scan to write down the sex in a sealed envelope... it drove the rest of the family bonkers! No real gut feelings one way or another. We thought Mia was going to be a boy. A couple of days before I received this BFP, I had a dream about cuddling a tiny red-headed girl baby, who wasn't Mia. But then last week, Mia's little friend, who thinks she is a star, suddenly announced "Mia has a little brother now!" DH did admit to half-trying to peek yesterday at the scan, but didn't see anything.

Tamisara Wed 12-Sep-12 12:02:21

Hi ladies!

Sorry I haven't been around much - I haven't even been lurking... I've been actively avoiding this thread, almost phobic about coming here, so I apologise & confess that I haven't caught up with it all - hi to any new comers, so sorry you are here sad

I feel a bit ashamed, I received so much help & support, and feel I am letting others down. I just find it so hard right now.

At the end of next month it will be a year, and I'm dreading it... In RL one of my best friends, who has helped me a lot, is in hospital, and the other good friend is pregnant. I think I announced her pregnancy in February, but she wasn't pregnant then - she is now four months... I just knew she was going to get pregnant, even though she was surprised.

Sorry for not being around, I think about you all, lots xx

tami I have been wondering how you were, thanks for popping back to let us know. It is fine to admit that you sometimes can't deal with being here - great self knowledge, I think - and people do weave in and out, so please don't bother feeling guilty.

FWIW, I hope you find some way which feels right to mark one year for Tamsin. It is hard though, as if you are like me, there feels like there is nothing to 'celebrate.' I really had no inspiration at all, but I wanted to something. What has helped me a lot is doing something positive, Mia's Wood, as it helps me feel closer to her. I'm not saying though that Saturday will be easy, I'm sure no-one expects that. Perhaps you could offer a donation of time or money to SANDs or SM Ducklings Trust in Tamsin's honour? Or maybe organise a special session of reading at a local library of children's stories with rainbow themes? You write beautifully, maybe a poem? It just has to feel right for you. x

Tamisara Wed 12-Sep-12 16:09:27

Miasmummy What a beautiful idea... I'd never thought about SM Duckings Trust. The library idea is also wonderful - we go there every week for 'Bounce & Rhyme' so I know that DD1 would love a reading session smile

I've been thinking of you, will be sending lots of love to you & hoping you have lots of cosmic cuddles with your beautiful birthday girl on Saturday xxxxx

deemented Wed 12-Sep-12 16:29:30

Hey folks,

Sending everyone much love. And if you do happen by that thread, then please ignore the fuckmuppets on it.

Right, best get on. Got a reborn to feed and a baby to rob wink

expatinscotland Wed 12-Sep-12 18:21:15

Oh, dee, have you got a nine-year-old for me to abduct? Or how about a life-sized, 9-year-old reborn doll for me to lock myself in a cupboard with?

whiteandyelloworchid Wed 12-Sep-12 19:34:11

i'm sure my son sent me a feather.
last night i was talk to dh about what we have been talking about here, and about how some people believe angels leave feathers.
and i told him id noticed alot lately
he did poliety say im glad if that gives you comfort but that he didnt think there was anything in it.
we talked about this last night in bed
then this morning, i was sortign clothes out to go in the wash, i was empty int pockets of my jeans.
inside my jeans i had a little booklet of tesco vouchers double points things, but as i had only done little shops i was hanging on till i spent a bit more money, anyway, so i folded the booklet and had it in my back pocket
when i took the booklet out of my back pocket, i unfolded the booklet and went to put it on the side, as i unfolded it, there was a white feather inside!
the booklet was folded in half and in my pocket
that must be a sign om 100% sure

i told my mum and dad about this, they came to take me out for lunch, pretty sure they think im acting bonkers again, but when we came back from lunch, right in the middle of the living room floor was 1 white faether, that somehow appeared while we were out, dad said its probably come out of the cushions, but that doesnt explain how it ould have ended up in the middle of the floor.

chip, how wonderful for someone to send you those christmas decorations, i would be massively chuffed if anyone did that for me, i would be so touched

expat, were are you planning on getting that christmas decoration from?

on the subject of christmas, this is our forst one since lossing our son, i was wondering about sending dd a small gift form her brother but i wasnt sure if that was a good idea or not
what do you or will you do?

mias mummy, what actually is mias wood?
is it somewhere where you are growing a wood or where a wood already existes?
where did you get the christmas leaves from?

fioled Wed 12-Sep-12 20:17:18

WTAF is that thread angry.

travellingwilbury Wed 12-Sep-12 20:19:58

Hello all x I am sorry I haven't been around but I just wanted to come and offer a hug , and yes fioled wtaf !

whiteandyelloworchid Wed 12-Sep-12 20:30:58

that thread is actually evil imo, nasty nasty people

travellingwilbury Wed 12-Sep-12 20:40:38

I am actually heartened to see that most agree it was an acceptable thing to do but yes the idiots are bloody sickening .

Now they are the height of bad taste .

Nice to meet you yellowandwhiteorchid , I dip in and out of here , my son died over 10 yrs ago , he was 14mths old and as much as I survive , I still love the fact I can come back to this safe haven .

whiteandyelloworchid Wed 12-Sep-12 20:47:36

hi travelling, nice to meet you toosmile
i am so sorry to hear about you losing your son, how does it feel 10 years down the line? is there any truth in what people say that you wont get over it, but it will get easier?
do you have any other children?

my sons headstone should be coming sometime next week.

i sometimes think some people, think we should grieve over babies less.
well in fact ive actually been told as much, as my cousin lost her baby at 18 months and even my own mum who has on the whole been v supportive, said whats happened to my cousin is far worser than whats happened me as if its some sort of competion.
i tried to explain well holding your child in your arms and watching them die, is pretty much as bad as it gets in my book and burying your own child is pretty horrific too.

travellingwilbury Wed 12-Sep-12 20:53:06

I am so sorry you have heard that from family especially , losing a child whatever age they are is properly shit !

I do cope a lot better now than in those awful early days , I think for me the pain will never go away and tbh I don't really want it to but I have stronger emotional muscles to deal with it .

We have been lucky in that we have gone on to have two more boys , which helps but does bring its own challenges , they know all about harry , I would never hide him from them but the questions can be tough .

Good to see you TW - I have missed you xx

chipmonkey Wed 12-Sep-12 21:00:59

whiteandyellow, the reason I believe the white feathers are a sign is that I never, ever saw white feathers before she died. When I was a child I used to love finding feathers but only found big black ones.
After she died I so wanted signs and in frustration one day, I sat on my bed and said to her "You know, the odd feather wouldn't go astray!"
A couple of days later, One descended in front of my eyes in the middle of the lawn. It was a hazy, frosty morning and the whole scene was magical.
I also fpund one in my wallet one day!

Also, rainbows. One tbe day of her funeral. One the day we buried her organs that the hospital returned to us. One the day of her birthday.

None of us knows what this place is or why we are here, why such terrible things have happened to us or if there is a reason at all.

But I do believe there is more than this. Our children are not permitted to tell us, that would be like helping us to cheat on a test. But they are allowed to give us clues. Or that's what I think anyway!

whiteandyelloworchid Wed 12-Sep-12 21:04:16

i do like talking to other parents that have lost a child, but i find it very intersting talking to people further down the line as its interesting to me to see how thing are going for them

i'm glad youve gone onto have two more boys, i bet the pregancies were tough after losing your ds1

do you or did you find they how many children do you have questioon difficult?

i have a five year old dd, she talks about my son alot.
she asks why jesus and the angels can fix him and send him back, she asks if she has a poorly heart too
shes even woken up at night crying and saying she has a broken loveheart
she likes taking him flowers at the grave

travellingwilbury Wed 12-Sep-12 21:05:19

And me you shabs x love the name BTW .

All went a bit odd there for a while but all better now !

whiteandyelloworchid Wed 12-Sep-12 21:08:15

chip wow that is amazing, i can picture you sitting down saying the odd feather wouldnt go amiss
how amazing to see one fall down right in front of you
and as for one in your wallet.
to me that must must be a sign, as how could it have got in there otherwise

dh has just got in, hes gettign some food at the moment but im excited ot tell him about the feather incidents
he will kindly humor me im sure

that is fasinating about the rainbows
ive only seen one since my son died though.

travellingwilbury Wed 12-Sep-12 21:10:01

I am ashamed to say that friends I have made since my boys have been born probably don't know about harry , I have never been comfortable or brave enough to tell them . Weirdly the Mums find out when their children come to play and ask about photos or when my boys mention him .

This is one if the few safe places I have to say his name out loud other than some brilliant long term friends .

How are you doing ? I never thought I would smile or laugh without guilt again but I do .

expatinscotland Wed 12-Sep-12 21:11:07

white, my 6-year-old daughter suggested we have a picnic at A's grave. She choses flowers for her and she drew a picture to put in her coffin. She talks of her often and says she will always be her sister.

It was good to speak to my friend today. She lost her sister when they were teens and tells me she still thinks of her every day, we're in our 40s now, and told me about when they were teens and she found a list her sister wrote, of all the things she was going to do, like get a boyfriend, pass her driving test, go to college, have two kids. And every time my mate did one of these things, she'd say, 'I did it for you, C'.

I haven't had a feather yet, that would be lovely! My friend Suzanne gets white feathers from her mother every now and again.

But 11 years ago, I lost my dear friend, Rich, in a RTA. He was 32 and did not live long enough to marry or have his own daughter, which he said he'd have loved.

I saw him once, shortly after he died, and then never again. But about two weeks ago I dreamed him, so clearly. Ever in his white tshirt and olive green nylon climbing trousers, smiling and his blue eyes shining. He didn't speak, he didn't when I saw him the first time. But he let me know A was safe and with him.

I believe him.

travellingwilbury Wed 12-Sep-12 21:17:03

Expat that is gorgeous to know she is with a much loved friend .

The white feathers will come I know it .
I still see them in the strangest of places and always well timed .

How you doing ? It is such early days for you , the hardest of times and believe it or not I sometimes want to be back there ,

whiteandyelloworchid Wed 12-Sep-12 21:19:33

tw no need to feel ashamed, we are all just trying to deal with this the best way we can
im glad you have a safe place here and with long term rl friends to talk safely

i'm very up and down, today my mum and dad have been over and taken me out ofr lunch and we did have a noce time, ive grown closer to them over the past year, even thpugh my mum will say the odd thing that hurts overall they are very good.
and they do encourage me to talk about my son, which is nice
but today ive been fairly ok, although i was in tears this morning
then at various point today been actually having a nice time
i do hope it gets easier to cope with in time
i worry alot about the effect it could have on my dd, but all i can do is support her as best as i can, can't really do anymore than that really

expatinscotland Wed 12-Sep-12 21:23:14

Oh, I'm up and down, travelling, you know how it goes. My other two are so young, they keep me very busy now DH is back at work.

Thanks for asking!

And don't ever be ashamed, you have nothing to be ashamed of.

travellingwilbury Wed 12-Sep-12 21:25:05

It does get easier I promise and if shabs boys are any indication then growing up in a house where people are walking this crappy path to adulthood has just made them into sensitive and delightful men .

I am glad you have had an ok day , that is good enough .

whiteandyelloworchid Wed 12-Sep-12 21:25:29

expat, it wonderful your 6 year old will be able to remember her sister, the picnic sounds lovely, when i was pg my dd did pictures everyday for the baby, i have alot saved in my sons memory box
perhaps you should do a chip and ask for a feather to be sent to you an see what happens

how wonderful to find that list and say i did it for you c

what happned when you saw your friend rich?

i totally believe in something but im not sure what that is.

whiteandyelloworchid Wed 12-Sep-12 21:28:26

yes i do think this experience/life wil probably also give a certain depth to dd, a certain sensivitiy that can often only come from going through such shit
so sensitive and delightful sounds great to me

expatinscotland Wed 12-Sep-12 21:29:09

I've seen Rich only twice. Each time he's standing up, in his white shirt, olive green climbing trous and Salomon approach shoes - his uniform when he wasn't at work, he was an amazing climber - and he smiles, he had THE most beautiful blue eyes, and I can hear him, but he doesn't speak. The first time he told me he was allright and that there was indeed an afterlife. Then he went. This time he came to tell me she was allright and safe.

travellingwilbury Wed 12-Sep-12 21:32:27

Thanks Expat and glad to hear you are doing ok (ish anyway ) I never mean to keep harry a secret but the school gates during talking about the weather just doesn't seem the right time and then you get friendlier but it is just a conversation stopper so I keep it in .

whiteandyelloworchid Wed 12-Sep-12 21:35:50

wow how comforting
you describe him so clearly

i was thinking of planting some snowdrops inthe garden, we have a mini apple tree in mmeory of our son, and we have a nice fushia where our tiny but lovely baby we lost when i had the miscarriage is buried.
but i was thinking of planting snow drops as lots of things in my sons memory box is based around snowdrops, as its the sands symbol
so i was thinking of planting a long row of daffodils, then hyacyths the snow drops.
but im not sure if i can plant them in the grass and if i can just not cut the grass until all the flowers are gone

smile thank you TW - My lads are brilliant.

Did you know that Danny & Em got married in August? Was a wonderful day xx

travellingwilbury Wed 12-Sep-12 21:40:10

I knew it was due then , very glad it went well after the numpty they dealt with before . I bet lew was the star attraction !

MrsKwazii Wed 12-Sep-12 21:42:28

Evening all, hope you're all as well as you can be.

That bloody thread earlier - some people really don't have a clue.

Love that you've had a dream about your friend looking after Aillidh Expat.

I'm another big believer in signs, lots of feathers from my lovely girl.

Shabbs I now have the Zorba the Greek tune playing in my head grin

Sorry LOL - I have been humming it to myself since we came back from holiday. xxx

whiteandyelloworchid Wed 12-Sep-12 22:06:59

mrsk have there been any specific times you've seen the feathers.
or do the feathers come along at anytime?

expatinscotland Wed 12-Sep-12 22:13:22

shabba, you're such an inspiration to us all! I hope your enjoying your grandchild and congratulations to Danny and his wife. It must have been such a happy day for you all, including Gareth and Matthew, of course smile.

fioled Wed 12-Sep-12 22:13:37

What the hell is going on with all the insensitive threads tonight? sad

expatinscotland Wed 12-Sep-12 22:23:16

white, my friend Suzanne, who was Rich's fiancee and lost her mother when she was 15, gets them at random times. She finds them on her car, on her porch, they float down to her as she's hiking (she's an amazing hillwalker), once she even found one in her locker at the gym.

She has her mother's ashes still with her, and puts them all in her urn along with anything she finds on her travels that she thinks her mother might like. When she was in Scotland, she found some beautiful bits of rare-coloured seaglass (I'm a seaglass hunter, and believe me, finding a red one or cerulean blue piece is rare here, but she found both). She also writes little notes to her and puts them in.

Rich's ashes were scattered - Rich didn't understand the taboo around death, either, and, being a high-end traditional climber and alpinist, was well aware of the risk his passion carried, so made his wishes clear - on the wind on the trail to Pear Buttress, before The Diamond, a rock formation on Long's Peak, Rocky Mountain National Park. He'd say that he actually wanted them scattered at the lake at the base of the peak itself, but as his mother would be unable to make the hike, he chose that instead.

His ultimate goal was to climb The Diamond and, two weeks before he died, he did, with my ex. It's such a comfort to know he fulfilled that dream.

It's illegal to scatter remains in the form of ashes in US national park, and sure enough, we got found out. A ranger showed up and threatened to fine us all. A wealthy friend ushered him to the side, whipped out his cheque book and paid a $3000USD fine to the parks service then and there, then we were left to get on about our business. smile

I send his mother a card for his birthday every year, and she's been such a rock to me. As she puts it, 'He was my son for 32 years, he didn't stop when that car left the road.'

whiteandyelloworchid Wed 12-Sep-12 22:44:27

expat, i find that really intersting hearing about your friend suzanne, i bet the locker one was a suprise
a very nice one

ive not heard of seaglasss before, i shall google that and look out for it next time i go to the seaside

sounds like rich lived life to the full

that was very thoughtful of you to send his mother a card every year, i would be so touched of anyone does anything like that around my sons birthday.

expat what amazing dreams about Rich, especially that he came to tell you that A is safe with him. My mother had a similar dream about Mia at Christmas time, and she found it immensely comforting - she says she never dreams of the family.

whiteandyellow you might be interested to know that the Child Bereavement Trust do snowdrop walks around the country each year, usually in February, to remember our children. You also asked about Mia's Wood - it is a wood that DH and I decided we wanted to create in her honour, as she loved nature. In the words of DH "Planting saplings that will grow and mature over a lifetime, what should have been Mia's lifetime, into mighty trees - repaying the care and love invested in them with beauty, a lasting joy to everyone". The idea is that it will be a magical nature experience for children and families who have lost a child. Eventually, we'd like to do environmental education too. Lots of friends have donated money, and after much searching we have found a small piece of land nearby, and are in the process of buying it right now.

tw don't feel guilty about not talking about Harry at the school gate. There's a time and place for everything. If it had felt right, you would have spoken about him. Guilt is a totally overrated emotion - such a waste of energy!

expatinscotland Wed 12-Sep-12 23:18:34

I did and do, white, and I did not have children at all when Rich died. It just seemed the thing to do. Believe it or not, she says the only cards she gets now are from me and Suzi. I never saw him, except those two times, and I don't think I will again, until I pass into spirit myself.

chipmonkey Wed 12-Sep-12 23:27:05

My cousin dreamed that my Nana was looking after Sylvie-Rose. She said that in the dream my Nana was very young and beautiful.

Talking of dreams, I had a nightmare the other night. I was living in Amsterdam, the water was rising in all the rivers and canals. I woke up just as a huge boat was capsizing and about to crash down on top of me.

Ds4 came running into my bed a while later. He always does that in the mornings. But this time he snuggled in and said "Mammy, I don't want you to die"
I said "I'm not going to die, silly!" And he said "But I don't want you to die in that river!" It was like he could see my dream.

Ds1 and ds2 used to share dreams as children. Ds1 was telling me about a dream he'd had, ds2 butted in and told me what happened next. Ds1 said "But ds2, it was my dream!" and ds2 said "Yes but I was there!"
They also talked about a person called a "dream-maker" who would appear in both their dreams and change them from bad dreams to good.
All stopped when they were around six and four.

matildawormwood Wed 12-Sep-12 23:53:19

My sister, who I've always thought was a bit more in touch with the spiritual side of life than me, (which is not saying much i admit) had a dream where my Nan, who died several years ago, was hanging out the washing on the line. She was hanging up a big sheet to dry and it was blowing about in the wind. My sister felt panicky in the dream and asked her where Daniel was as she couldnt see him and my nan said it's ok he's here. But my sister couldn't see him and Nan just kept saying don't worry he's here, ie behind the sheet. I liked hearing about this but I also feel a bit sad that I haven't dreamed about my boy once or had any signs whatsoever. I don't feel his presence. Just his absence. I wouldn't say I'm someone who's very in touch with that side of things...I wish I was now as it would be a comfort I think.

matildawormwood Wed 12-Sep-12 23:55:56

Chip, I love that story about your boys sharing dreams. It just reminded me that I experienced something similar with my sister a couple of times when we were sharing a room as children. I'd completely forgotten about it until now. I can't remember the details at all but I remember her describing a dream and knowing that I'd been in it too xxx

expatinscotland Thu 13-Sep-12 01:30:18

Oh, people share dreams! People will say it is woo and that there is a rational explanation for it, but the supernatural is only the natural which our powers aren't able to explain yet. No less real, no less valid, because well, our powers just haven't caught up.

expatinscotland Thu 13-Sep-12 01:34:28

'She said that in the dream my Nana was very young and beautiful.'

Of course she was, because she is. And I'm not a jot bothered by anyone who says I'm woo, or a dumb ass or ignorant, thick, ill-educated (ha!) a 'God botherer', etc.

I used to be afraid to go up my own flight of stairs, because Kenny '96 hanged himself from the light fixture there in 2006 after his girlfriend and her kids left him.

I'm not now!

I'm woo, stupid, thick, whatever to some.

Doesn't matter a jot to me.

Because those of us who have lost our children, you see, there's not a lot that can really hurt us now. There's nothing, nothing worse, than losing your child.

Morning ladies...from grey, rainy, cold Lancashire!!

<<sits and watches her tan fade rapidly>>

whiteandyelloworchid Fri 14-Sep-12 09:48:35

morning smile

ive been listening to this song alot lately
rio diamond, i believe.

Tamisara Fri 14-Sep-12 11:32:27

Good morning all <checks watch - yep, it is still morning>

thought I'd pop back. It's lovely reading about these dreams. I've not had a significant dream lately. I had an awful dream that I was told I had less than 6 weeks left. I was really sad about leaving DD1 (and DS of course). I did then (in the dream) think that at least I would be with Tamsin, but that wasn't enough to lighten the feeling, then I felt guilty for wanting to be with DD1. I also had a dream about chip, where I went to see her, as she needed my help - there is nothing I can imagine that chip would ever need my help with - but it was nice meeting you in the dream world smile

Miasmummy I did think we had a lady on team 'blue' here, but now I've said that, it's probably wrong. I can predict an amazingly bonny baby though smile

white I don't believe I've met you on here (apologies if I have & have forgotten), so welcome, but I do wish none of us had to be here.

Made a less than stellar impression at my new GPs surgery today. I was fine, until a baby came in... so used to babies now, so they don't usually affect me. But when the mum took her out, she had thick black hair, and looked like Tamsin. I started to well up, and by the time I was called in, I was in full sobbing mode. I apologised, as I never randomly cry anymore, but it just caught me out. The doctor was kind, but then asked if I had anyone at home, and told me to tell my psychiatrist. I now fear that they have me down as emotionally unstable (well I am, but more so than I really am)... urgh!

Hope you all enjoy the beautiful autumnal sunshine xx

whiteandyelloworchid Fri 14-Sep-12 13:20:14

hi tamisara, i think we may have met before on sands website.
i think it may have been you, i havent been on that site for a while as i find it tricky to follow the threads as there doesnt seem to be a threads im on section same was as there is here, unless i'm missing it?
do you still go on that site?
do you go to any of the meetings?

i'm thinking of going to, not the next one as its the day before my birthday, and i can'r cope with the emotional outlet that might happen, but i might go to the oct one
if i feel strong enough

ikwym about the drs thats the sort of thing i do, esp at the drs then i worry they will think i can't look after dd or something, so i tend to try to appear to be coping fine when i go there iykwim.
bonkers really as they should be there to help, and most of them are

Tamisara Fri 14-Sep-12 13:45:59

white we probably have met on Sands. I also don't tend to go on there much. I haven't been to a Sands meeting. I've thought about it, but just never got round to it.

Funnily enough though, I did get an invitation to a memorial service today, from the bereavement office at SMH. It is to remember all babies who died before, or after pregnancy, and is next month. I'm really glad they sent it, as we were given a form to fill in, to be invited to events like this, but I couldn't remember filling it in, or where it was. So I'm very pleased to have received this, and will (fingers crossed) be attending. It will be lovely to meet other parents in the same situation. It's not a Sands event, it is arranged by Buckinghamshire NHS.

It's horrible worrying that they may think you're not competent to look after your other children, I think it's how we feel, rather than the facts of the situation. As you say, the doctors are there to help xx

whiteandyelloworchid Fri 14-Sep-12 13:53:37

oh we had an invite to a church memorial service in the summer, we went and i found it helpful was lovely to have that hour or so just to sit and purely think about our son, there was poems and reads and hymns.
al the babies names where read out, and we all lit a candle for each baby.

theres going to a christmas service for all of us that have lost babies, and i will def be going to that
i guess its the same sort of thing

chipmonkey Fri 14-Sep-12 16:01:06

Tami, we should meet up sometime in RL!
Honestly, though! You see a baby who looks like Tamsin, you well up, and your doctor thinks your psych needs to know? Since when is missing your baby a psychiatric illness? It's normal, Tami, or as normal as anything is, these days!

Hello all. I was also thinking of you today, tami as I was back to SM for a gestational diabetes test - runs in the family, unfortunately.

After feeling ok and keeping busy all week, now feeling very sobby. The lovely woman who conducted the celebration of Mia's life rang me this afternoon, to say that she was remembering Mia's birthday tomorrow. That set me off... a lady who didn't even meet Mia alive remembered, and cared. I guess being back at the hospital too, with all the memories of her birth, probably didn't help either.

In the middle of my sob-fest, DH rang to say that Mia's Wood is finally ours. We will go to a local nursery this evening to pick out a tree together.

It is great that this is all happening at the right time, but I can't feel somehow diminished. This is not how I want to mark Mia's birthday. But it is all I've got.

whiteandyelloworchid Fri 14-Sep-12 18:30:53

mia how lovely of that lady to remember.
i really really hope someone other then me and dh remember my sons birthday, that would mean suchalot ot me
great news the woods are yours now.
willl you be planting anything like snowdrops and bluebells, i always think they look fantastic in woods.
thining of you for tomorrow

chipmonkey Sat 15-Sep-12 08:50:56

Happy Birthday, beautiful Mia xxx

whiteandyelloworchid Sat 15-Sep-12 08:57:21

Happy birthday beautiful red haired girl x x x x

Morning girls - Happy Birthday Mia xx

parttimedomesticgoddess Sat 15-Sep-12 09:25:11

Happy birthday Mia, I hope the sun is shining in Mia's wood today xx

beanieboy250712 Sat 15-Sep-12 09:53:59

Hi alyak2011, my son was born sleeping on 25th July 2012. I had to arrange my own 6week check up at doctors. I think more than anything with the check the doctor wants to talk with you. Not to give tmi but i was exactly like you had already had my first period after birth before my check up so it was more a chat. Also my consultant said they would call to discuss post mortem results but didn't so I called her. Our results are back and we are just waiting for appointment. If I was you I'd call, I feel I need these results as part of my grieving process. Take care.x

Tamisara Sat 15-Sep-12 10:23:07

Miasmummy It is a beautiful autumnal day. There are red & orange berries on bushes, the leaves on my cherry tree, are turning a burnished gold/red colour, the sky is brilliantly blue - Mia's presence abounds. Ethereal signs they may be, but they are still magickal. I wish you a gently day, with lots of love, and a very Happy Birthday to a very special, flame-haired beauty xxxxx

frasersmummy Sat 15-Sep-12 10:39:13

happy birthday mia.. hope the day passes peacefully for you miasmummy

I have just found this on facebook .. its published by the why 17 campaign.. its 17 pictures of pregnant ladies who will go on to tragically lose their babies ..thats all there is to it so please dont click on it if it will upset you ..

i just found it poignant and wanted to share... was tempted to put it in chat to annoy all those who want to pretend we dont exist

[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Adl-J4HOuXo&feature=context-cha why 17]

frasersmummy Sat 15-Sep-12 10:41:06

lets try that again

why 17

Tamisara Sat 15-Sep-12 10:58:41

FM It is a very poignant video - all those poor women, when they were safe (that is how I think of myself this time last year).

I know what you mean about wanting to be 'hidden' away. Not everyone at our toddler group knows about Tamsin. I saw one of the mums at bounce & rhyme the other day. I hadn't seen her over the summer, and noticed this neat little bump, and she asked if I knew she was having another one. I said I didn't before then, then told her I'd had Tamsin last year. The poor woman - she said "just goes to show, things can go wrong even when you think you're past the danger point". I felt so dreadful - this poor woman, sharing her 'happy' news, and old muggins here lowers the tone. I do feel upset though - that I should pretend that Tamsin didn't exist, because others don't want to know about 'sad' things... even though that 'sad thing' becomes the most significant thing to you.

On the bright side - my psychiatrist wasn't at all fazed that I'd burst into tears, seeing a baby that reminded me of Tamsin. She, in fact, said it was a "good" thing, that it is sad, but it is "good" for me to remember her, and have such strong feelings smile

The bad news is - now I've changed GP surgeries, she can no longer see me, as I now fall under a different team. She suggested I considered re-registering with my old GP again. I feel torn on this - I changed because I had such strong memories, and wanted a change. I also feel it would look odd trying to re-register just a few weeks after leaving... of course they may refuse to take me back.

Hope the sun remains & Mia's love shines down on her wood, her family & all those who love her... that little girl has captured so many hearts xx

oh FM - beyond sad.....way beyond sad.

Am lighting my candle that is inside my beautiful jewelled candle holder. I asked if I could 'steal' it from our hotel in Greece and was given full permission smile It is beautiful. Have got a blueberry scented tealight in it and will keep the light going over the weekend in honour and with love for all our lost babies (no matter what age) and also to remember my MN and RL friend Estar - tomorrow is Daniel and his twin brothers birthday. The first twin birthday without Daniel. sad xxx

whiteandyelloworchid Sat 15-Sep-12 13:00:27

oh that 17 video is powerful.

wonder if there will be one this year? i would llike to see that in person

matildawormwood Sat 15-Sep-12 13:55:47

Thinking of you Miasmummy. It's a beautiful day for a beautiful girl xxxx

MrsKwazii Sat 15-Sep-12 14:00:22

Happy birthday Mia, I hope that your wood is full of dancing butterflies and birdsong today.

FM that video is just heartbreaking. Too many every day.

deemented Sat 15-Sep-12 14:03:53

Happy Birthday, beautiful girl x

whiteandyelloworchid Sat 15-Sep-12 19:33:40

how do you guys feel and respond when someone tell you to be graetful for what you do have
my mum said this to me this week, she said it to me in anice kind of way, meaning well.
but it really really got my heckles up
and i didnt really know how to responed, i think i said somehting like i am grateful for what i have dd and dh but doesn't mean i'm not sad about baby orchid.

whiteandyelloworchid Sat 15-Sep-12 19:36:22

just think i could have responed clearer.

OrangeandGoldMrsDeVere Sat 15-Sep-12 19:47:15

I dont respond to those sorts of comments white
I cant be arsed.
If I did I would say the sort of thing you did (well that would be the polite version)

I am amazed that people feel its ok to say it to us but feel no way about having a good old moan about their own children.

Somehow bereaved parents are expected to be saints.

OrangeandGoldMrsDeVere Sat 15-Sep-12 19:47:35

Happy Birthday MIA x

Tamisara Sat 15-Sep-12 20:14:59

Oh white (((hugs))) orange is right, it is best to just not respond. It never ceases to amaze me, the insensitive BS that is bandied around. I think probably the worst I had, was a woman telling me that 'it was probably for the best'... best for who? My friend died of a brain tumour months before, and no one told her DH that it was 'probably for the best' - and nor would they... as it could never be so, nor would anyone say such a abhorrent thing. Yet it was fine to say to me, that my perfectly healthy baby, who was failed by my body, was not significant, that her life wasn't worth anything...

Of course we can count our blessings, but there is no way - even Pollyanna, could look on the bright side, if you lose a child xx

whiteandyelloworchid Sat 15-Sep-12 20:25:41

mrsd yeah we are expected to be saints, we always have to be understanding about how other people feel
as if we should swallow are own feelings to spare others

tami, so sorry that some idiot told you it was for the best, what an idiotic untrue thing to say, you are so right noone would say that to someone that had lost a husband say.
nor would anyone who lost a husband be told to be grateful for what they do have, just don't know why people think its ok to say those things to us.

ive also been told not to be morbid[mum again] and best not to dwell on things [a normally sensible friend]
and if i have another baby it won't be as bad if that one dies wtaf hmm
shock another normally sensible and nice friend
actually i could list off alload more really but perhaps i'd better stop before i wind myself up

Everyone here, all my friends, thank you so much for your love today. I have been brought to tears by you all. It has been a beautiful day, sunshine and laughter, love and friendship. And sadness, of course, but the greatest feeling I had today was that I felt blessed - by having the enormous and amazing privilege of having had Mia in our lives, but also for the wonderful friendship which has been shown to us, yet again. xx

chipmonkey Sat 15-Sep-12 21:38:54

Tami, you were right to mention Tamsin. I remember hearing news of babies who had died before I lost Sylvie-Rose, and I would feel sad but never actually lost any sleep thinking it would happen to me.

white, people do come out with platitudes. My own Mum is the queen of the platitude! I think people try to find the silver lining for you but there are times that I feel like saying "For every silver lining, there's still a fucking cloud!"
I am usually too polite though!

Mias, I'm glad the day went well. I know Mia will have been with you through it, giving you strength xx

white I think you were very polite. chip You too!! I would probably give such a person, regardless of who they were, a hard Paddington stare, and say "I'm sorry, that comment REALLY isn't useful" or maybe "If you can't say anything nice, please don't say anything at all" or simply a withering "You have no idea, do you?"

Tami I don't think you could have said anything else to your pregnant friend. Tamsin should not be hidden away, never. It sounds like she was able to deal with it all quite calmly, and wasn't offended though, although I am sure she felt so sad for you.

expatinscotland Sat 15-Sep-12 22:26:25

Happy Birthday, Mia! Thought of you today. smile

I don't respond to comments like that, either, white or, like MAM, say, 'That was a really hurtful/insensitive thing to say.'. We get a lot of 'but at least you have two other children'. Thanks for that. Also had one lady ring me and say she didn't come to the cemetary because she had a 9-year-old child, too. Thanks for that. I hadn't even noticed who was there.

Went to reel/ceilidh night with R. Had such a good time, danced wonderfully. Only one person didn't know and said, 'Didn't you have two?' I said, Yes, still have, but that A had died of leukaemia in July. Poor lady was mortified and apologised.

whiteandyelloworchid Sat 15-Sep-12 22:33:46

thanks for your advice, perhaps i should try to toughen up a bit more, instead of letting people get away with saying hurtful things to me.

expat glad you went to the dance. that must have been very bittersweet
i think you did really well to gosmile

frasersmummy Sat 15-Sep-12 22:34:41

that comment by mrs devere really struck a cord with me.. bereaved parents are supposed to be saints

so true.. dont talk about your child who is not here, dont cry in my presence, dont have pictures of your child in your home (for those who had their child beyond new born how could you not?)
Remember that other pregnant women dont want to hear what might happen

can you tell i'm in annoyed mode at the moment

expatinscotland Sat 15-Sep-12 23:20:28

Oh, we have pictures of A everywhere and of her hand and feet prints taken at the funeral home, a bookcase with her art and schoolwork, her jewellery, pictures of her in both the kids' rooms, watch video clips she made of herself and others have of her, etc.

She is still their sister, and as her next youngest sibling was 6.5 when she died, they had a lot of memories together.

She's still part of our lives, she's still our daughter and sister, forever.

Anyone who has a problem with that won't be in our lives.

chipmonkey Sun 16-Sep-12 18:42:53

expat, that woman who wouldn't come to the cemetery! What, its catching is it?
And fm, there is this perception about that pregnant women should not be upset so best not tell them your baby died. Even though their baby is still alive and we're the ones with empty arms.....

expatinscotland Sun 16-Sep-12 18:55:07

I didn't know what to say to that, chip, but that's how I felt. Especially because there were 4 people there who buried their own children and many more with children who were her age or other children.

Yeah, it's catching.

But, it is along the line of not telling pregnant women.

Childhood death is a taboo.

Tamisara Sun 16-Sep-12 19:13:30

I think that's quite true expat. I do think people are uncomfortable, not just because they are sad for you, but also they fear that it may be catching. If it can happen to someone they know, it makes it more real, and there is the possibility that it could happen to them.

I don't believe that I've ever really been like that myself. My first experience with child death, was when my cousin died at 6 (I was 11 at the time). I don't remember the aftermath of his death so much, but I do remember his sister crying (she stayed with us, when his parents were in hospital).

I had a friend whose second son was stillborn, a year before DS was born. I wasn't scared that it may happen to me, on the contrary, she was a wonderful comfort, and strongly advocated going to the hospital with every tiny niggle. Still, knowing about monitoring movements didn't make me immune sad

That said, I'd never visited this part of MN before Tamsin died. I'm not sure if I was even aware of it's existence. That wasn't because I thought bereavement was catching though.

I've been on threads - not so much on MN, but more on it's 'rival' site (which I don't go to now), and had the most heated (almost) arguments with other women, when advising other pregnant women to go to hospital immediately with reduced movements. I have been accused of 'scare-mongering', and had people tell me that "my midwife says..." and it gets me, it really does. To be honest I'd rather be scared and seek out advice sooner, rather than listen to soothing reassurances and go too late.

I think that losing a child is so scary, so very scary, that people would rather hide away from it... pretend it doesn't happen. And if it does, to someone they know, they'd rather not think about it. They also want to know it's survivable.

My mum noticed that on FB some people don't comment on posts where I maybe say how I'm really feeling, yet do when something is upbeat.

Yet so many people get upset at watching documentaries about dying children. My (probably rubbish) theory is, to them it's the same as watching a horror movie, they get to 'test out' their emotions, in a safe way. Damned different if someone they know experiences it though, then empathy weariness soon sets in xx

expatinscotland Sun 16-Sep-12 20:03:19

'My mum noticed that on FB some people don't comment on posts where I maybe say how I'm really feeling, yet do when something is upbeat.'

Most of those people have now been deleted from my friends list. Because they aren't friends.

whiteandyelloworchid Sun 16-Sep-12 20:29:05

"Yet so many people get upset at watching documentaries about dying children. My (probably rubbish) theory is, to them it's the same as watching a horror movie, they get to 'test out' their emotions, in a safe way. Damned different if someone they know experiences it though, then empathy weariness soon sets in"

100% spot on and correct

chipmonkey Sun 16-Sep-12 20:32:21

I have a friend that I want to delete. She didn't contact me after Sylvie-Rose died. But.. I have heard rumours she is in an abusive marriage and if it all goes tits up I still want to be there if she needs me. That probably makes me a total mug, doesn't it?

chip not a mug, just a generous spirit. tami 100% right about people feeling it is 'catching.' Despite having such a special day for Mia's birthday yesterday, I am hurt and upset by a few people who, while they made the effort to contact us, yet they couldn't actually mention Mia's name. What is that about??

chipmonkey Sun 16-Sep-12 22:07:16

Mias, it is strange, isn't it? As though, even in this age you mustn't speak the name of the dead.
Therere are times I feel like saying, "Her name is Sylvie-Rose, not You-Know-Who or She-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named."

twinklesunshine Sun 16-Sep-12 22:22:07

Mias I am glad that yesterday went as well as it could have, I was thinking of you.

I also find it strange that people don't mention his name, and just say sorry to hear what has happened etc, I know what has happened, you don't need to sugar coat it for me. I also find it odd that not many people will say his name in the same sentence as the word died, they either say when M….and then just tail off, or use another word like went, left. Again, I know he died, I am not going to be upset by the word.

I know that some people don't like to refer to their own child as having died, which I can completely understand, but as I am comfortable using it in the context of my son, I feel that others should too.


I went to a naming ceremony yesterday, and have another one next weekend, I am definitely glutton for punishment. Ugh its so hard, and what with having that wedding a few weeks ago I am all occasioned out.


Mogwai200 Sun 16-Sep-12 22:53:43

I notice that some people won't say his name. My in-laws don't bring him up at all but I do it on purpose when they're here.

whiteandyelloworchid Sun 16-Sep-12 23:19:14

oh yes i get that too

peopel saying, oh are you going the THE grave

also we should be getting our sons headstone installed this week and even dhs grandparents said today, any news on when THE stone is coming

and lots of when IT happened
or when EVERYTHING happned
etc etc

i feel like saying, and i almost have and probably will next time, its ok to say baby orchids name you know.

its like everything is so awful, they cannot bring themsleves to say the name, as it makes it seem more real to them

3girlies Mon 17-Sep-12 19:39:37

miasmummy happy birthday to mia from Saturday, sorry I have not been on to say it, but thought of you on the day. It will be Flora's birthday at the end of October, first one without her, just don't know how we will be.
It is 11 weeks today since Flora passed away, just feel like we are in a terrible nightmare from which we will eventually wake, 77 days in a nightmare. Going to work is using up time for me, just feel like that about it.

Thinking about Hazy today. Will light a special candle today for your precious grandson. Happy Birthday little man - loved forever by all your family. xxxx

frasersmummy Tue 18-Sep-12 10:32:31

happy birthday jayden.. thinking of you and your family hazy

Dont tell pregnant women your baby/child died for fear of upsetting them ... its mad isnt it..
Mums need to be aware of the risks and that there are families out there who despite having suffered this terrible tragedy have rebuilt a new normality for themselves and can even smile again

We need to raise awareness ... I thought stillbirths were something that happned in the dark ages..seriously I had never heard of it happening till it happened to me.

And what if they are upset ??? surely those of us who have lost our child are carrying more pain than we could ever cause by talking about our children angry

rant rant rant ...

Rant away FM. xxxx

chipmonkey Tue 18-Sep-12 20:10:12

A lady came in to the practice today. I recognised her as being one of the Mums from the SCBU where Sylvie-Rose stayed but her baby was discharged before Sylvie-Rose so she didn't know she died. She asked how Sylvie-Rose was and I burst into tears.
She was lovely and gave me a hug. Despite the fact that she is very heavily pregnant with another baby.

whiteandyelloworchid Tue 18-Sep-12 21:32:31

aw chip (())) that must have been tough
sounds like the lady was very nice

theres a lady, another mum at dds school who has a baby same age as my son, and i find it difficult tbh atm i just avoid her as much as possible which is a bit of a shame as shes a lovely lady

chipmonkey Wed 19-Sep-12 00:05:12

And there's another lady who had a baby the same time as me, white, and I think she avoids me now for fear of upsetting me!
Other babies are difficult.sad But I did find that when I held dh's niece, who should be the same age as Sylvie-Rose, it wasn't actually as bad as I thought it would be.

whiteandyelloworchid Wed 19-Sep-12 09:13:17

you know i havent held a baby since my son died
just dont want to

chip or anyone else, do you ever go to any support groups? im thinking of trying sands next month, but scared it might make me feel worse

havent sleep well all week, every single night i wake up for two hours, think i shall try a good walk today any other ideas wha i can try ?
i'm just all wound up, i'm going to hide that thread in the news as i think its actually disturbing me

chipmonkey Wed 19-Sep-12 13:07:10

white, seriously just hide the thread. It's not worth it. Far too upsetting.

I have not gone to any support groups but I have put my name down for a group, should it become available. To me, this is my "group". The ladies on this thread have been a much better support than any RL help.

whiteandyelloworchid Wed 19-Sep-12 14:45:52

chip, i hid it this am, feel better for it.

i think i'll get more from online support than from rl groups as i can openly talk on here, and on sands boards etc
not sure i can be THAT open with people i don't know although we will see
i just keep getting asked to try it

expatinscotland Wed 19-Sep-12 16:08:37

My child was not a baby when she died, but there's no way I'd want to hold a baby girl at this point in time.

Was missing her so so much yesterday. Today, too. Well, every day.

whiteandyelloworchid Wed 19-Sep-12 18:16:32

i hear you expat, its just every day is a struggle

sometimes i find myself thinking is this the best i can hope for, that basically i get used to feeling this shit and sad all the time, thats whats normal for me now and for the rest of my life

chipmonkey Wed 19-Sep-12 18:59:27

white, people I know who have lost a child years ago say it does get easier. Not that it goes away but that the pain becomes less acute. It's almost a year for us and I am finding it a bit better.

whiteandyelloworchid Wed 19-Sep-12 19:31:48

thanks chip thats really good to hear, as i feel pretty bleak right now


white For me the pain becomes easier (overall, but with waves of intense, real grief) and yet paradoxically, less believable with each day that passes. I am not crying every day anymore, but I am also horrified that nearly a year has passed too.

Mia still feels so close to me, so real. I saw a little girl toddler running down the mall today, giggling as she enjoyed the freedom of movement, and I thought "Oh, Mia would do that" and then my second thought was "I have no damn idea if she would or not" - and I will never know.

I have realised that - and this sounds awful - that while I feel horribly bad and sad for everyone else here, I really have no concept of losing a child while still in utero, or at birth, or just after birth, as a young child, as a teenager, or as a adult... I only know what I have experienced, losing my little girl at the age of 13 months, a child with 4 teeth, beginning to walk and talk, who never had a first haircut. Yet so many here of you didn't even have that. And I am not sure that what I feel is enough, so I do apologise. I feel so self-centred, so selfish.

expatinscotland Wed 19-Sep-12 21:24:17

MAM, you are not selfish or self-centred. We're all here due to the experience of losing a child, a club no one would want to join.

We had nine years with our daughter, and as for all of us, our inheritance is loss - no high school, boyfriends, period pains, shopping and spa days, college or university, wedding, children, learning to drive, going on holiday, prom etc etc.

fioled Wed 19-Sep-12 22:00:22

Sickening few days. Was a concern X had been exposed to measles, and obviously hasn't had his jabs yet because he's too young.

After blood tests on the child today with suspected measles it turns out it isn't but instead a reaction rash to one of her epilepsy meds. Its taken far too long to get me this information and I've been getting more and more worked up with fear these last few days.

Tonight I'm feeling sick, and tense and teary with relief. Which is ridiculous, but I'd been so anxious these last few days, imagining the worst case scenario if he came out with the disease. I'm so frightened of all these childhood infections (preventable ones or the routine ones) and anything happening to X too sad

fioled how could you not be sick with anxiety about X? It's just part of our legacy of loss... once you have seen the dark side of the world, it is difficult to believe otherwise. We are changed forever. But I am so, so glad X is ok.

Oh Fi....cariad...you are bound to feel that way. I was adamant that Tom was not having MMR jabs. Totally adamant. Before he was old enough for his jabs I worried that he had heart problems like his big brother....then I worried in case he wanted to learn to ride a bike (like his big brother) our lives have been changed and the balance of our lives has been distorted. We are all individuals and we all have experiences and worries and fears that change the way we are feeling about life from hour to hour. I wish I could give you a massive hug. I wish I could tell you that your fears are the same of any mother - bereaved of a child or not. <<wraps her arms around her friend>> 'one foot in front of the other my friend...one foot in front of the other and dont forget to breathe xxx'

chipmonkey Thu 20-Sep-12 00:02:02

Mias, that's true of all of us, though.
The only way I can imagine, say, what expat's going through, is to look at ds3, who is the closest I have in age to Aillidh and imagine him gone. And I don't want to do that, particularly.
Or to imagine what you're going through, I would have to imagine that ds1 got to be 13 months old and then died, before we had ds2.
The way I see it, it's probably the same grief, the same shock, disbelief, guilt, rage, pain, anger, all those awful emotions ten times worse than you ever felt them before.
What I do think is probably different, is other people's reactions. I think people who never lost a child, seem to think that it's worse to lose an older child. That there was more to lose. That the stillborn baby or the baby who died from SIDS, is less of a loss, that there was less there to miss.
I don't actually get that from people who have lost a child, but definitely from those who haven't.

fioled yesterday, ds1 complained of pains in his chest, then pains in his back. Then he got a cold. He was sent home from school. I almost had him diagnosed with meningitis before I got a grip! When you know the worst can happen, it's very hard not to imagine that it could happen again. Totally normal. But X is such a healthy little bunny, I really don't think that you have anything to worry about xx

expatinscotland Thu 20-Sep-12 14:12:21

'What I do think is probably different, is other people's reactions. I think people who never lost a child, seem to think that it's worse to lose an older child. That there was more to lose. That the stillborn baby or the baby who died from SIDS, is less of a loss, that there was less there to miss.
I don't actually get that from people who have lost a child, but definitely from those who haven't.'

YY, chip! Very well put.

You also get people who qualify loss if it's from, say, RTA, suicide, murder, etc v it's from a 'natural cause', or suddent v from an illness like cancer.

Again, never had that from anyone who has actually lost a child, and sadly, I now know many who have sad.

My good mate B, his son died age 18 from a bad batch of heroin. From the time the boy was 14, he struggled horribly with bipolar I disorder. His life, and that of his family, was hell as his disease progressed and he became involved in illegal drugs in a vain effort to control his symptoms the way the prescribed medication could not without side effects he found impossible to live with.

For years, B dealt with huge regret because he admits, at times, he sometimes wished his son were dead. But he didn't really, what he wanted was for him to be well and for the rollercoaster that is severe mental illness to stop.

It took him a long time to forgive himself. He didn't really want for S to die, he wanted him not to suffer. As he put it, you can't wish a person to die anymore than you can wish them to be well, bring them back, etc. Every thing he felt was a natural human response to watching your child suffer horribly.

We speak often about our children and losing a child.

He brought it up, too, how some people believe that it's somehow easier to lose a baby than an older child, and what a load of bunk that is.

'A loss is a loss,' as he put it.

MrsKwazii Fri 21-Sep-12 10:08:53

Blimey Fioled, you must have been sick with worry about measles. Like everyone else has said, once you've lost a child you're never the same again - we know that children can die and I know that I always have that in the back of my mind now. I cannot assume that DD2 will have a long and happy life, but then again I cannot assume that she will not. It's a bloody tough one to get my head around without being totally paralysed with fear.

I know what you all mean by the 'hierarchy' of loss too. I've felt (ashamedly) jealous of people who've had more time with their children, and then abashed that I had more time with DD1 than other bereaved parents had with their children. A loss is a loss though as you say Expat, and it is that snuffing out of potential that I also find very hard to deal with. All those thoughts and plans for the future that are now tattered.

I read this in a blog recently, which resonated for me and I'm worried it is what I'm doing:

"[we] miss the here-and-now-and-tomorrow because we are so trapped in the there-and-then-and-yesterday."

I don't want to let go of yesterday - she was just here - but equally I don't want to squander the precious time that I have in my life, and in DD2's life. It's such a difficult balancing act.

chipmonkey Fri 21-Sep-12 17:15:44

MrsK, I feel the same.
Is my whole life to be defined by her death. I rather think it is.sad
But it's still a life to be lived. And I am living it.
I am thinking, this October 4th, it will have been a year since her little lifetime ended. And I will have gotten through that year. And then, I've only got to do it around 40 more times, assuming I live as long as most women. And then I'll see her again.
But really you shouldn't spend this life on a countdown to the next, should you?

twinklesunshine Fri 21-Sep-12 20:22:40

Mrs K and Chip, that is exactly what I am doing too.

Its 6 months today, and I am having a very bad day. I keep thinking how awful it is trying to survive without him, and that even if I get to a year, 5 years, 10 years, I still have a lifetime to go. I am only 31 and I just can't bare to think about how long I could still be here.

I am struggling so much with the idea that there is still a life to be lived. I am living it, in that I am doing everything day to day, but all I think about is the life that I used to have that was so happy, compared to this.

My husband is very positive, and believes that he will see him again, so even if he lives another 50 years its nothing compared to the time they will have together after that. I just can't see it like that, I dwell on the negative.

I don't want to wish my life away, but I feel like that is what I am doing. My mum died when she was 55, and I have been thinking to myself that I hope I only have to carry on that long, and even that seems an age.

Ugh xxxxx

expatinscotland Fri 21-Sep-12 20:51:18

chip, you are so eloquent. Your words bring tears to my eyes and a smile to my heart. I know I am not alone in this sentiment.

Twinkle, you, too. smile You're not alone in how you feel. Not at all! I'm here with you, sometimes. I can't look at some of the updates of some of the people we knew from the unit there just now. My baby isn't here anymore and her time, her time after diagnosis till her death was so short, even compared to many of those who have paediatric cancer, and so, so horrible! Oh, I know now, only the Milan protocol is as hard, from what I've learned, than that which she endured. We endured.

I think your husband is right, though. It will seem as nothing, one day. When is that day?

11 weeks tomorrow here.

My son is having much trouble. She died to him, in many ways, the Friday, 25 November, that she went to hospital. And I was gone then, too.

shabba, thank you so much for continuing to share your sons with us, and your experience of loss. Your sons are not forgotten, they are an inspiration to me.

VERY low two days here for me. Have to soldier on as have the other two. I wait till they go to bed, like now, and seek you all out.

Where is she now?

We have our first frost here tonight. And we are far from her lair. She lays there, what was mortal of her. What is happening to her?

I can't feel her, not at all. I can't feel anyone.

MrsKwazii Fri 21-Sep-12 21:28:49

Chip I think it is a life to be lived. I'm taking each day as it comes, and on bad days each hour as it comes. My girl's earthly life in may be over, but I can't let it be the end of mine as well - it's not the tribute she deserves and not fair on DD2 either. Doesn't make it any easier though.

Twinkle I found the six month mark a very difficult one. I felt awful that that much time had already passed. I worry that, very quickly, I will have lost her for longer than we had her. She will always be four, always frozen at that age and in time and I will only move further away from her. I hate it.

Expat soldiering on can sometimes be a blessing, other times a curse. And I recall that numbness very well. I'm missing time after DD's death because it was all I could do to exist between getting up in the morning and going to bed at night. I often used to repeat Shabbs' mantra of one foot in front of the other and don't forget to breathe.

The bad days come less often now, but there are sometime also periods where I just zone out and the day is neither good nor bad. I'm sure it's the brain's way of helping us come to terms with the enormity of it all, it's just too big to consider in one go.

expatinscotland Fri 21-Sep-12 21:43:01

Thanks, MrsK! smile

I take a leaf from shabba's pages, too. And from those I know, so many now, who have lost their children.

My parents work with Knights of Columbus a lot and have done for many years now. Many are their friends who have lost their children. I know when I go with them to the clubhouse it will be emotional. So many have donated to charity in Aillidh's name, so many who have known loss, too.

I was speaking to my mom today. We're going to the US for Xmas. She said, Jeff and Elaine, Betty, Christine, Izzy, on and on can't wait to give you a big hug! All these people have lost their children. Jeff and Elaine have two daughters. Their younger daughter, Skye, age 14, died 14 years ago in a shooting accident. Her boyfriend killed her while they were playing around with his daddy's rifle. Betty's only child, Dave, age 43, was killed by a drunk driver in a RTA two years ago. He had no children of his own, he was only recently first-time married, planning to have children with his wife who was 10 years younger. Christine has two sons, the elder of whom drowned, age 6, over 30 years ago. Izzy's first son, Bruce, died of SIDS age 7 months, 60 years ago. She's 78 now. Ginger's only son died in 1976, age 12, of leukaemia. Dorice's daughter died of cervical cancer, age 20, in 1980.

Just so many. And in a strange way, I look forward to sitting with those people and just letting it all hang out in the way I know I can. As Jeff told my mom to tell me today, 'Just tell that I've been there, and I'm there now, too.'

whiteandyelloworchid Fri 21-Sep-12 21:54:45

my sons headstone, got installed today, not sure if theres anyway i can show you mums on here privately without the whole of mumsnet being able to see
but if any of you would like me to share it with them, pm me your email address and i'll email you a photo.
it was a bit of a shock to see my sons headstone,bit like when you look at he death certificate and see it in black and white. i'm glad we chose the silver lettering and script style writting
we can't put any flowers in the container for 3-4 days as we have to wait for it to set, so i'm itching to put some flowers in

been havingalot of problems with not being able to sleep this week, just feel so run down

Thank you chip for capturing my own feelings so perfectly, and far more beautifully than I could ever hope to do - and it is reassuring that I am not the only one who feels like this, expat, twinkle, MrsK. Sometimes the wait to see Mia again feels interminable. Time stretches out before me, holding so much pain and loss. That's when I have to look to Shabba, FM and others to ask how I will cope...

And yes, sometimes I am amazed that yet another day has passed. Yet another day without my girl. How? Why? I do find myself becoming very annoyed at myself if I don't 'achieve' something each day, even if it getting up early and going to the gym, as I feel I have to make the most of life's opportunities, all the opportunities Mia doesn't have. But there you are. We have no choice but to go on, to embrace life as it is, and my aunt said to me One breath at a time. Give yourself time. Not to get over this loss because you will always grieve but to somehow weave her beauty, her love, your love and your terrible loss into a fabric that can be worn as a shawl of love. Life is about love - family and friends - and living with integrity, and that is how I want to live it.

expat yes, you will be able to express yourself freely with those friends of your parents who have lost children. Our local bereaved parents' group is like that - we can have the most bizarre conversations, which would seem totally macabre to another audience - but it is such a 'safe haven'. Just like here.

white your son's headstone sounds beautiful. I hope you start sleeping more restfully, but it is easier said than done.

Lots of important anniversaries now, for you expat, for twinkle and coming up for you too chip. Nearly 11 months here, and less than a month until Mia's inquest now for us.

chipmonkey Fri 21-Sep-12 22:36:42

I'd like to see your boy's stone, white
I'll pm you..xxxx

whiteandyelloworchid Fri 21-Sep-12 22:49:11

thanks mias mummy, i think it will look even nicer when i put some flowers inthe container.i'm just hoping that is definatley is level, as in the churchyard the ground is fairly uneven, so im not sure its 100% level
i shall take a spirit level with me to check

how are you feeling about the inquest?

'Just tell that I've been there, and I'm there now, too.'
yeah its kinda like when you go there, they don't leave, reminds me of that poem ugly shoes.
guess you've all read that one before

chip, i see what you mean about your life being defined by losing your child.
i often feel like THAT PERSON, that person whos baby died
its like its who i am now

i'm also getting a bit fed up of people that tell me what i need is a job, as if that will solve my grief.
i'm nowhere near being able to handle anything like that right now, not even close
i hate other people advising what to do when i havent asked them

whiteandyelloworchid Fri 21-Sep-12 22:49:54

oh thanks chipsmile
i would like to show you

MrsKwazii Sun 23-Sep-12 18:05:20

Evening all - what a turn to the weather. Am putting another jumper on and trying to resist turning the heating on. This time last year we were going to the seaside until the end of September. Lovely memories.

Whiteandyellow hope you are able to put some beautiful flowers down for your son this week. We had our daughter cremated, so she doesn't have a grave or a permanent memorial. We're working up to scattering her ashes but I want to do it right, rather than just get it over and done with IYKWIM.

We, family and friends have been fundraising in her memory. It feels wonderful that so many people want to help keep her name alive. It's overwhelming how generous people can be with their time and money, especially in the current climate.

Hello all. We are staycationing this week, and poor DH has been given a long list of DIY jobs wink, but so far, seems to be enjoying it - I have made sure there is a column of 'fun stuff' too!!

It is 11 months today, but feeling quite calm about it all. No idea why, but I am not going to push myself to feel miserable, but instead allow myself to fill up with love for my sweet girl, and smile at the beautiful times we shared.

Does anyone else here mentally picture your child getting older? I have realised that in my head, Mia is definitely a cheeky, smiling 2-year-old toddler with crazy red curls - and I am surprised that in the photos we have of her around the house, she seems so young.

chipmonkey Sun 23-Sep-12 23:14:45

Mias, I imagine that she's one now and that my Dad and Nana are raising her but there's a part of me that also want to raise her and that part of me wants to meet her at the end of my life, in my Dad's arms, still a baby, so that I can take up where I left off.
Or maybe I won't care at all about raising her because perhaps in the afterlife none of that will matter.

expatinscotland Mon 24-Sep-12 00:36:12

'Does anyone else here mentally picture your child getting older?'

Yes. I always saw Aillidh as a woman. Even before she was ill, I could and often did see her as a fully-grown woman. I could even picture her as an older woman, and see lines in her face.

Aillidh was 4ft., 9in. when she died, and she was starting to get a waist. She had the same lines in her neck that I have. She was needing to have braces fitted had she lived. I can see that, too.

I do see her dead, and sick. Strangely I have to look at photos and videos to remember her before she went for transplant, that last round of chemo that ultimately cost her life.

I still see Gareth as a 7 month old twin baby. I see (now) how bluey/purple his skin always was. I smell that weird 'pear drop' kind of smell on his skin when he wasn't doing well. I remember the sweet smile and the ferocious temper. I sadly remember his screams when they were doing the tests on his heart - cant remember what they are called but I know it involves dye and going into his groin with the tube sad BUT most of all I remember the fighter he was, the fighter with the tiny, tiny ginger curls (like his nephew).

I still see Matty as a 7 year old. Skinny, not very tall, spiked up dark hair, living life to the full, romantic, funny, 100mph kid. As for his accident <<sigh>> I daren't recall the pictures from that day - its too difficult and heartbreaking.

I hope that, wherever they are, they are grown and happy. Also hope that Matty got the 'big willy' he always wanted. The reason he got himself a donor card when he was 4, the card he carried everywhere with him JUST in the hope that one day he could have a willy donation cause, in his words, his was too small smile

3girlies Mon 24-Sep-12 09:16:28

12 weeks today for us. If I am honest I still do not believe it all happened. Just so sad and missing Flora so much. I am dreading her birthday next month, do not know how we will be. Love to you all. x

fioled Mon 24-Sep-12 10:21:29

Sometimes I can only see Belle as the tiny 4lb 5oz little baby she is. Other times I can see this beautiful blonde hair two year old. I can imagine her growing more now I have X because I am always wondering how alike they might've been. X still looks so like her when he's sleeping.

OrangeandGoldMrsDeVere Mon 24-Sep-12 13:47:34

I cant bear to imagine Billie as older. Its just too painful.
Although I have a sort of living image of her. Her cousin is very like her. She is on tv/in magazines a lot so see her all over the place.
Sometimes its like a kick in the face, other times its comforting.

I cant really think of Billie as anything else other than that fragile, beautiful, sick child. After all this time.
I am stuck. Going backwards or forwards is too painful. To remember before or to think of what could have been.
I cannot stand it.

chipmonkey Mon 24-Sep-12 14:35:51

I always think of Billie when I see her cousin, MrsDeV xxx

ILikeToMoveItMoveIt Mon 24-Sep-12 19:52:39

yy to a living image MrsDV

When I think of Cole I see a baby, but every so often I glimpse him as a 6yo boy. I also get glimpses of what he would look like as a toddler as ds3 looks a lot like him, much more so than ds2.

We went camping a month or so ago and dh slept with ds3. DH said he loved just watching ds3 sleep as he looked just like his brother <sigh>

The strange thing about being stuck in time is that it seems like everyone around you is moving forward at hyper speed. Much like the camera trick they do when one person in a crowd is standing still and in focus, but the crowd around them is moving and out of focus.

Are you going to mark Flora's birthday 3girlies? The build up to birthdays and annivs are particularly hard I find, and it is such early days for you x

OrangeandGoldMrsDeVere Mon 24-Sep-12 20:54:00

Billie will be 21 in January.
I cannot believe it.
She was stolen from me.

The 'big' birthdays are the hardest Mrs. D. Danny & Gareth were 30 last Christmas and it was so hard. Danny wants to change his birthday to the 27th or 29th December and I cant see any harm in doing that to be honest. sad

.....she was indeed 'stolen from you' xxx

expatinscotland Mon 24-Sep-12 23:12:46

She was definitely stolen from you.

All our children were.

We believe that Mia could have been saved, even though she would have still been sick, if only the hospital had diagnosed her properly. That is what we hope to hear from her inquest.

3girlies Tue 25-Sep-12 18:41:39

I don't know what we will do iliketo.., just thinking about having a good walk, put a card from us to stand by her ashes, will think of something to mark it by. She would have been 7 years old. The future gets stolen doesn't it? All the things we will never do together, just so cruel. X.

expatinscotland Tue 25-Sep-12 20:31:53

They're frozen in time. The rest of the world moves on, your other children move on, they stay the age they were.

Got my first white feather today! At last!

I'm still in contact with some other parents whose children are still battling. I love to support them, and hope their children do well (they're all survived longer than Aillidh), but sometimes it's hard because all that isn't a part of our lives anymore, if anyone knows what I mean. Somewhat easier with those I'm in touch with whose children have died. I know that sounds mean-spirited, but that's why I'm putting it here because this is the only place I can put it.

3girlies Tue 25-Sep-12 21:25:16

Yes, I often think of that, I will get old, her sisters will grow up but Flora will always be six years old. All these things you never imagine you will ever have to think about, my head is so full of it all.

whiteandyelloworchid Tue 25-Sep-12 22:08:52

oh expat tell me about the feather.
where and when did it appear.
so pleased you got one at last, perhaps aillidh heard you saying or thinking about one

i often wonder what happens when you die, it totally believe that something happens, i do feel my son around me and i hope we will be reunited again.
i even asked my vicar what happens to babys when they go to heaven, do they remain babies for ever or do they grow up
she did not actually answer my question
what she did say was, that shes is absoultey convinced me and my son will be reunited one day,and that we will recognise each other, and that heaven is all around us not far up in the sky and spirits stay close to the people they love and they people that love them
and that i have to have faith it is going to get easier
she lost a grandchild to stillbirth too so she really really understood how deeply us losing our son to neonatal death affects us so deeply
sadly shes retired now, think she found our sons funeral one of the toughest shes conducted, she told a friend of mine that was there she found it really hard to stay composed.
bless her heart, shes lovely

she also gave me a book called pip on the egde of heaven for my dd, its a childrens book about grief, but it made alot of sense to me.

expatinscotland Tue 25-Sep-12 22:35:09

3girlies my younger daughter is getting perilously close to the last book Aillidh read in school now. 'Twiga and the Moon'. 18 November 2011. The last day she ever went to school. Her sister is in the grade Aillidh was in when she fell ill and died. Aillidh lived only 7 months and 29 days following her diagnosis.

Her sister is my only other daughter, my other child is a son, and it pains me to know that, as he is only 3, the only memories he will have of her are those we give him.

There will be no other children. I am going on 42 and my husband had the snip.

whiteandyellow, we live in a rural area, white, and I don't go out much besides the school run and the kids' activities and seeing a few friends. But haven't been out walking much because the weather's really gone pear-shaped.

I went out onto our balcony (we are in a maisonette that begins on the first floor) to prune back my mint plant and there it was, a white feather. Definitely a seagull, I think, we are yards from a marina that opens onto a sea loch and the gulls come in, of course, in inclement weather. But it was there.

I think when they pass to spirit they are what you need them to be, tbh.

My gran lost her first when the child was 2, but she always saw her as a woman. And when my grandmother died over 70 years later that's how she appeared but my grandmother recognised her as her own.

whiteandyelloworchid Tue 25-Sep-12 23:11:36

oh i'm so so pleased you got that feather.

do you think if you were younger and your dh hadn't had the snip you would have any more children?

i was telling a friend, someone ive know about 2 years and in a group of friends with thatwe now have our sons headstone
she said something about oh she doesnt like the ones with a photo on.
[ours doesnt have a photo on]
and i said something like perhaps you dont like them because it makes it seem more real
and she said no, its not that, but that she thinks the headstone is about moving on
the conversation just fizzed out then at a rather awkward silence

yet again, you end up feeling judged somehow, what other people think is the right or wrong thing to do
i felt like saying i bet if one of your children died you would want photos up of them, not necacerily on the headstone but around the house
but i didn't as i'm sure it would all come out wrong
or make me sound really nasty
i do think she ment well
it just makes me feel likewe are all isolated and so so judged
when we've been through enough already

expatinscotland Wed 26-Sep-12 00:07:03

'do you think if you were younger and your dh hadn't had the snip you would have any more children?'

I don't know because I'm not young anymore. I'll be 42 in February. And it happened when it did and so now it's a moot point.

Oh, another cracker from someone who hasn't lost a child! Headstones are about moving on.

Please! Yes, we move on, in the sense that no one can freeze time. We can only move forward in it and honour that.

But her stone is about her and about her siblings and remembering her. The wish to have a photo is actually her sister's. She wants it and has expressed that every time we visit her and even at home.

Morning girls xx

When Dan & Matt were about 6 & 4 we went to take flowers to my Grandads grave. Matt was fascinated by the cemetry. He wanted to know about my Grandad and we sat talking about him. Then Matt saw lots of headstones with pictures on - he said 'When I die I want the cutest picture of me on my headstone' - sadly, very sadly, 3 years later we found the 'cutest' pictures of Gareth and Matt and they are on their headstone. Everybody who visits says how amazing they are. Its all very personal choices.....and, in my opinion, a headstone is not a sign that we are 'moving on' its to show our child/children were here, did exist and were much loved xxx

white how weird that your friend felt her opinion on headstones would be a useful gem of knowledge for you... ignore!

expat so glad your white feather appeared.

3girlies you might find that Flora continues to grow in your mind along with your other girls.

Now this sounds a little silly, but I think I dreamed about our children last night - or maybe I glimpsed that parallel universe / heaven where they all are. I was at my grandmother's house, but not one I was familiar with, but I knew it was hers. My grandmother died four days before Mia. There was some sort of party or event there, with lots of children of different running around. (Didn't see Matty being mischievious though, shabba, he was obviously off planning something!) Mia was much bigger, and we were very impressed how she could jump off a wall down a slope and keep running without falling over. I wanted to help her, but realised there was no need - and I somehow knew I wasn't allowed to. Then all the children had a nap, and I saw all these lovely cherubic faces fast asleep together in a big room, Mia with her little bottom sticking up in the air just like she used to do when she was exhausted. Not sure what brought this all on, but it was oddly comforting.

chipmonkey Wed 26-Sep-12 08:56:53

expat, I'm so glad you got your feather!

white shortly after Sylvie-Rose died, I mentioned to my dsis that I had been up to the cemetery and had seen a birthday candle in the shape of a "2" on the grave of one of the babies buried nearby.

My sister made a sort of face as if she thought that was distasteful or too much, as if you told her about a live baby girl with no hair whose parents had clipped a big bow to her head ( Apologies to anyone who thinks this is cute but my sister definitely wouldn't!) I said I thought it was actually a lovely thing to do and she backtracked very fast! I do think there are things you don't "get" if you haven't lost a child.

As for a headstone = moving on. Really, how can we ever truly move on?

Mias, what a lovely, lovely dream! I'm sure you were being reassured that Mia is being taken care of and loved.

Odd thought last night. Sylvie-Rose was our last child. The weeks she was in hospital, I remember thinking that when she got out, then we would be able to carry on living. Now that she's died, it feels like now I get to carry on dying.

3girlies Wed 26-Sep-12 17:03:14

Yes, I do find myself thinking what she would have been like especially if she had not been ill, had kept her lovely hair etc. what we would all be doing now and stuff like that, only it will never be as we are in a different life now.
I think I might have decided to have another if I had been about 10 years younger, I am almost 44 now and husband had the snip too after Flora, feel too old anyway now anyway, I am past all that. It would never be Flora and that is the only child I want. Anyone else feel like this?

expatinscotland Wed 26-Sep-12 17:46:13

I feel the same way, 3girlies.

whiteandyelloworchid Wed 26-Sep-12 17:54:28

it just makes me feel so sad and cross really, who are others to judge how anyone deals with grief and loss

its really nasty to pass judgement on these sort of things imo

as for a headstone being a thing to help you move on, personally to me i thnk its something to always remember someone, a perminate memorial in honour of that loved persons memory.

just makes you feel like you are being judged all the time.
its just so very isolating

whiteandyelloworchid Wed 26-Sep-12 17:55:38

and it also makes me think, if people are like this only 7 months after my son died, how will they be in a year in two years, in three years etc etc

less and less understanding i suspect sad

expatinscotland Wed 26-Sep-12 18:33:04

'less and less understanding i suspect '

Seems to be the experience of a lot of people I've met who've lost children.

Even Kevin Wells wrote that people have said things to him like, 'It's been 10 years, isn't it time to move on?' Nice. His daughter was murdered age only 10 and someone has the cheek to say something like that him.

whiteandyelloworchid Wed 26-Sep-12 19:12:22

i often wonder if really people say things about moving on
they actually mean shut up talking about your loss
they dont want to hear it


You lovely ladies dropped of my Threads I'm on list!

Just popping in to give everyone a big hug!

I'm doing ok, 32 weeks pregnant and counting down... trying to stay positive. But it is hard cause with every little, or hard kick thus little one does, I realise Sterre was never able to do that. But without her I wouldn't be pregnant now, and enjoying this little one kick about (even though it bloody hurts sometimes wink)

hello blue, lovely to hear from you. Sterre is watching over you and your little one, perhaps adding some extra strength to her little sibling's kicks.

white have you heard of the expresssion DHACs? It means people who Don't Have A Clue. Sadly, there are many of them around, and you just have to learn to ignore them. Now when people say something silly, clueless or plain stupid, I simply don't care. I don't care what they think of me, if I cry in a public place or if I speak about Mia, or whatever I need to do to show my love for my beautiful daughter. They aren't me, and they have absolutely no idea of the pain and grief we carry around, today, yesterday, and ten years from now. You do not 'get over' losing a child. Ever.

MrsKwazii Thu 27-Sep-12 18:31:05

Hello everyone. Yes, moving on is something that people seem to want you to do so that they can pretend that life is all sunshine and no showers. I haven't had this but some family members have.

I feel bad this week. I know a lovely lady at work who lost a child a few years before I got to know her. She's popped by my desk a few times to say hello, and I think I've been a bit brusque with her, acknowledging her but getting on with my work. I want to keep my professional head on at work and feel that if I start to talk to her I may crack. I feel almost angry when I see her, and I just can't understand why. She has done nothing for me to be angry about.

My daughter's birthday is looming and I'm dreading it. I don't want to spend time with anyone apart from MrK and DD2. I feel that other family and friends may feel a bit pushed away though. I'm finding it hard to acknowledge their grief as well, I'm having such a hard time dealing with my own that I just can't give them an ear or a shoulder. I feel like I need to be like this, but also feel a total bitch. Sometimes I wish that everyone else would just fuck off and leave me alone.

chipmonkey Thu 27-Sep-12 19:08:52

MrsK, I sometimes think I should keep my professional head on a bit better. But a lot of my patients really feel they know me and so many of them were just waiting to see if I had a boy or a girl and so they're asking "What did you have?" if they haven't seen me since before she was born. And then they don't know where to put themselves when I tell them about Sylvie-Rose. And I do find it hard to stay composed.

Hey Blue! smile

MrsKwazii Thu 27-Sep-12 19:17:51

Chip I'm lucky in that I work in an office, no real time with the public or outside clients - I can't imagine how hard it must have been for you going back and knowing that you would be asked about Sylvie-Rose all the time. I do think that Ireland has a healthier attitude to talking about death than the UK though from my experience.

Sorry Blue, while I was wailing on in my earlier post I meant to say hello and so glad to hear that all is well smile

matildawormwood Fri 28-Sep-12 22:16:11

Hello everyone, not posted for a bit, been busy and when I'm not busy I'm in the pit (of despair, I'm not a miner).

whiteandyellow I'm so sorry for the loss of baby orchid.

Mrsk I know exactly what you mean. I am pushing everyone away apart from DP partly because I just don't want to deal with their feelings but also because I don't want any more sympathy. I HATE feeling like an object of pity. It's just not how I perceive myself or how I want to be seen though I know people mean well.

I have had a spectacularly bad week, even by recent standards. I went back into the office for the first time since D died in May (mostly I work from home) and on my first day back I started having a miscarriage. It was a very early one - I only found out I was pregnant a week ago so I was able to carry on - and there was NO WAY I was going to tell anyone because it was hard enough to walk into the office with all the sympathetic stares and not bursting into tears as it was. I just felt like such a pathetic creature. The moral of that story is never assume you've reached rock bottom...you can always sink a bit lower.

Sorry, I realise this post is full of self-pity and bitterness but that is exactly how I feel. I am 43 so it's ludicrous that I am even hoping for another baby and I knew I had a 50/50 chance of miscarriage but even so, for that short week I allowed myself to think that maybe I was getting a second chance. Fat chance.

Sorry again to post such a negative post. I do read and take a lot of comfort from this thread and I relate to so many of the comments here.

Love to everyone xx

chipmonkey Fri 28-Sep-12 22:24:16

Oh, Matilda!sad Of course you were right to hope. I'm so sorry you miscarried. Life is far too unfair!

matildawormwood Fri 28-Sep-12 22:30:29

It sure is chip. For a few days last week I even felt lucky, but then I remembered lucky people's children don't die sad. What's worse is that DP really wasn't sure we should even try again and this has just cemented his feelings. He doesn't want to see me go through any more grief (understandably) and I feel selfish for dragging him and DD through it when the odds are so crap. Six months ago I felt so lucky and happy to be carrying my second child. I just feel like I've taken a wrong turn and got stuck in this awful life by mistake and now I can't get out of it and I just want to go back. Like we all do I guess.

MrsKwazii Fri 28-Sep-12 22:38:03

Matlida sending you ((())) and so sorry that you've miscarried sad

expatinscotland Sat 29-Sep-12 01:48:26

Look, matilda, I can't speak for anyone else here but IMO I can tell you, this is a place where you never have to apologise for FA!

You know, we're all here because we've lost at least one child who could have lived in ideal circumstances. We have lived the worst nightmare there is, of holding our dead child or children in our arms and we are here, here to support one another.

No matter what.

We are here to read your post and support and empathise and give advice if you want it.

I'm really sorry for your miscarriage. xxx((()))

matildawormwood Sat 29-Sep-12 07:51:28

Thank you expat chip and mrsk. Sometimes you just have to get it off your chest don't you? And actually I never do in real life. I find it too painful still to talk about what happened to D. So thank god for this place.

Right, the sun is coming out, it's a new day. Onwards and upwards! Wishing everyone else a lovely day xx

MummyOnTheLoose Sat 29-Sep-12 09:06:20

Remembering my little Benjy- you were killed in a crash when you were five- and we'll always remember you as the beautiful blonde boy you were. It's your birthday today, we're thinking of you.

LottieJenkins Sat 29-Sep-12 09:12:07

Morning ladies.......... i dont post on here very often now but i was introduced to this beautiful song by a very special friend who knows all about Jack. It made me cry...............Wonder Child Mary Black.........

Morning girls. Thanks Lottie xx

MrsKwazii Sat 29-Sep-12 17:54:49

Afternoon. I'm on my way home from meeting the rather lovely Knotty and Pistey after picking up the little blanket that has been beautifully made for DD2. It is just beautiful and really overwhelming that so many people have been involved in creating it. I can't wait to get it home and have a really good look at it - it is so, so special smile

expatinscotland Sat 29-Sep-12 20:05:02

Happy Birthday, Benjy!

MrsKwazii Sat 29-Sep-12 21:04:24

Thinking of you and Benjy Mummy

matildawormwood Sat 29-Sep-12 21:41:41

So glad you got your lovely blanket mrsk. Thinking of Benjy's mum xx

fioled Sat 29-Sep-12 23:05:06

I've been drinking, I don't often do this but tonight I've nearly finished a bottle of wine. I've had a really difficult week, mainly work stuff, but its really impacting on me, home life, and then the usual melt down starts. I'm not a coper anymore. 2 years, 3 months, 1 week, 1 day. Wtf? This shouldn't be my life.

chipmonkey Sat 29-Sep-12 23:52:34

You know what, fioled? We all know we shouldn't drink a bottle of wine, or have a cigarette or eat the contents of the biscuit tin but once in a while you are entitled to let your hair down. Dh and I used to have an occasional cigarette when we were young, mostly when you were still allowed to smoke in pubs. We gave up when we found we were expecting ds1.
But this year, we have occasionally gone into a shop, bought a pack of cigs and stood out the back in our coats smoking, and hiding it from the kids, as if we were the kids and they were the adults!
And then I go into work the next day and tell my patients that smoking puts vision at risk!
We won't get addicted, you can't when you have other kids. But I'm damned if I'm going to be sensible when nothing in my life makes sense!
Have the wine and enjoy it!

Fi - this year I am 30 and 20 years respectively down the line from loosing my boys. Tonight I have drunk a 3 litre bottle of strong white cider (classy Bird) and have smoked 20 cigarettes. Sometimes, just sometimes, LIFE gets to me - I hate nailing down the rug under my feet (so no bugger can swipe it from under me) I hate being so sad but pinning on my fake smile.

Sometimes, sometimes, sometimes - we can not cope. Our child/children has died. Its an overwhelming sadness but then I know I dont have to describe it to you.....you walk the same path I do xxxx


<<passes Chip a couple of cigs>> xxx

expatinscotland Sun 30-Sep-12 09:39:42

Exactly, chip and shabba!

Our new 'normal' is shit, so every now and again, you gotta let it all hang out!

12 weeks yesterday, Aillidh left this life for the next.

3girlies Sun 30-Sep-12 13:59:29

Love to you expat, 13 weeks tomorrow for us here, 13 weeks ago about this time was the last time Flora spoke to us. X.

twinklesunshine Sun 30-Sep-12 17:00:41

Love to Expat and 3girlies. I am just over 6 months now, don't know what I have been doing with myself for that long really.

Had a hard day today. Took my son to a birthday party. When I got there, 4 of my friends were there, who also have children the same age as my little one who died. The little ones were not invited to the party, so they went to the ball pit together in the leisure centre with the 3 year olds. I couldn't go as I don't have a 3 year old anymore, so I walked round Tesco and then sat in my car. I know its a pathetic thing to be upset about in the grand scheme of the shit that is my life, but its really upset me. I miss my life and my friends, and feel really lonely. Its hard to meet up with everyone when the person that holds me to them isn't here anymore.

It has made me think seriously about moving, literally moving away where I don't know anyone and I don't have to watch life going on without me.



chipmonkey Sun 30-Sep-12 17:18:27

twinkle, I hate those times, the times when you are reminded of the things you should be doing, the things you should be buying, the things you should be using.
The unused buggy, the unused breast pump, the nappy and babyfood section of the supermarket.
Later it will be the soft play she should be bouncing around in, then the afterschool activities I can't enrol her in. And there will always be dh's niece who should be her playmate, to show me what she ought to be doing. .

3girlies Sun 30-Sep-12 17:53:32

Thanks twinkle, was thinking of how far along you are also this week. It has been hard for me too, seeing pics of friends girls having their birthdays appear on Facebook - Flora should have been at those parties, but never will. We have her birthday late October, will be so sad to see her birthday come. X.

expatinscotland Sun 30-Sep-12 18:39:35

Went to see her grave today. The weather cleared beautifully, it always does when we go to see her, and tons of rainbows. No Aillidh.

Expat - even after all these years I have times when it seems to have happened to someone else. I cant believe that I have lived through all the sadness. xx

expatinscotland Mon 01-Oct-12 10:09:23

I know what you mean, shabba.

Was speaking to the mother of the other child with AML who died, the 16-month-old baby. It's 4 weeks since she died, and her mother said the numbness is starting to wear off.

What could I say but yes, and I understand.

Of the 4 children with AML she came to know in the short 5 months her child was there, only 1 is still alive.

sad My twin baby boy, Gareth, was in a ward full of similar aged babies with the same (or more serious) heart conditions. None of those precious little ones are still alive.

Its a bloody horrible, weird world.


chipmonkey Mon 01-Oct-12 10:53:29

What I find hard, and I hope this doesn't sound awful, was that all the babies who were with us in NICU/SCBU are still alive, at least all the ones I know of. I am happy that they are all alive but it does make me wonder, why our baby? Why couldn't she have lived too?

expatinscotland Mon 01-Oct-12 10:59:47

No, I completely understand, chip. I find it really hard to follow the posts of some we knew from the unit, tbh. I know that's selfish, I don't want anyone to die, but I still keep thinking, 'We only got 7 months! Why couldn't she have lived longer?'

The mother of the other AML is going back to the unit to present a cheque. I told her I can't go back in there just now, but she did say it's only because it's been a few weeks. I do see that. We went to a memorial for children who died in her unit about a month after she died, but I couldn't go just now, IYKWIM.

NO WAY I could go back in that unit at present. My mate tried, when she wanted to see Aillidh for her birthday, but her son had just died in March and she made it to the kitchen and just broke down. I hadn't known she was coming. A nurse came and got me and said her husband had her out in teh corridor. Poor lovely lady! We got her out of there.

I can't even go around that hopsital. They showed it on telly when that little girl died in that canoeing accident and said she was in ICU there and I had to leave the room!

chipmonkey Mon 01-Oct-12 11:04:04

Ironically, expat, the A+E department where we brought Sylvie-Rose when she stopped breathing had been on TV, in a mini-series documentary.
So there we were, sitting in this room, I had on only a dressing gown and bare feet, and the doctor off the telly was talking to us about Sylvie-Rose telling us she had a 6% chance of living. Which meant no chance, really. It was like a very bad dream. I was under-dressed talking to someone from TV. It couldn't have been any more dream-like.

expatinscotland Mon 01-Oct-12 11:17:22

Oh, chip ((())). I ran into the doctor who vented Aillidh a couple of weeks ago in a shopping centre.

At the time, he was very kind, allowed us to stay when she was being put under and I remember how shocked he was that I shook his hand and thanked him, telling him I knew she wouldn't wake but bore it very calmy.

He stopped to offer his condolensces and I made a complete fool out of myself, dissolving into sobs and him ending up holding me and then sitting me down and someone bringing me a cup of tea. Poor fella! I said, 'Sorry.' He was like, no, it was quite allright. blush

chipmonkey Mon 01-Oct-12 13:02:24

Oh, expat! I find that when I'm expecting to see someone that I can hold it together but if I see someone that I wasn't expecting to see, the floodgates can open!

expatinscotland Mon 01-Oct-12 15:44:15

I saw him once and did a double-take and then saw him again and we both stopped. I said, 'Hello, Neil. Thank you so much again for letting us stay to hear her one more time,' and that point I was holding it together until he started speaking.

twinklesunshine Mon 01-Oct-12 16:40:12

Oh I hate running into people, I avoid going into my little village as much as possible so I don't get this. But, one of my mums friends works in the supermarket. My mum died a few years ago, so this friend wouldn't know what has happened, but she knew that I had 3 boys and would always talk to them when I went in. Last time I went in she saw me in the que, and said to me 'oh you only have the 2 today then'. I could feel myself getting panicky and upset, so I really quietly said he had died. She then said he what? And I had to repeat it again louder with everyone watching me. Then I had to go to the checkout and pay. It was awful.

I am like you Chip, I can normally hold it together but its when I am faced with a situation that is out of the blue that I cant seem to control myself. Thats the only one I have had like that though, I think it helps living in such a small village, everyone knows your business.


chipmonkey Mon 01-Oct-12 17:01:23

I live in a village too and I agree it does help if you don't have to keep explaining over and over. It's more in work that it's a problem because people tend to have an eye exam every two years. I am expecting a barrage of queries next year.

expatinscotland Mon 01-Oct-12 17:16:52

Everyone in the village knows she died, so I don't usually have a problem. But I've been running into her doctors at random left and right. I have seen her consultant in a personal setting, but that's different because I expected it and it wasn't random.

It's when it's random that it's so sad.

The finality of her death, that she is never ever coming home to be with us again that is so hard to bear.

Yes, when I know I am likely to encounter questions, I can usually deal with it. Yesterday, I was writing a text on my phone, and one of the abbreviations that came up was my initial alongside Mia's. I realised that was the sign-off I would use to DH when Mia and I were off having adventures and wanted to share a funny story about her. However, I have recently had various emails from former colleagues, who are likely to be interested in working together in the future, but they aren't close, so they definitely wouldn't know about Mia. I am deliberately procrastinating in replying, as I will have to say what has happened in my life over the past two years...

expatinscotland Mon 01-Oct-12 19:38:15

Glad it's not just me then! smile

chipmonkey Mon 01-Oct-12 20:13:35

We actually have friends we used to see around once a year who don't know about Sylvie-Rose. The dw knew I was pregnant, I met her one day but we never got in touch when she was born as things were so hectic. Then when she died, I couldn't find their number and they seemed to have made it ex-directory.
And the longer it goes without phoning them, the harder it's getting.

MrsKwazii Tue 02-Oct-12 21:49:56

Evening all. I know exactly what you mean about the unexpected meeting or question, it just throws me. I finally had a quick chat with my colleague who is also a bereaved Mum. She asked me how I was doing and I just welled up, and then she did too. I wanted to hug her but knew that if I did I would be a howling mess in the middle of the office. I've been on edge all day since sad

Chip and Mia I have a friend who I lost touch with after DD1 was born. She got in touch at Christmas and I was getting set to drop her a line and meet-up but then DD1 died. I can't bear the thought that her dying will be one of the first things I have to tell my friend, so I haven't contacted her. It's just too hard.

We're coming up to DD1's birthday too which is making me really tense with the anticipation that it will be a very hard day. I should be planning her party and chasing RSVPs from her new school friends. I hate this all so much.

MrsKwazii Tue 02-Oct-12 21:56:26

I feel like the illustrations in Michael Rosen's Sad Book. Weirdly, it's a book that really helps me - I think he's an amazing author and Quentin Blake is such an insightful illustrator: www.amazon.co.uk/Michael-Rosens-Sad-Book-Rosen/dp/1406317845/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1349211360&sr=8-1

MrsKwazii Tue 02-Oct-12 22:18:29

I'm so sorry to be such a whinge-bag lately btw. I hate being like this. Sending love and [flowers] to you all

MrsKwazii Tue 02-Oct-12 22:25:46

OH FFS! thanks thanks thanks MNHQ really do need to change that smiley to stop confusing literal idiots like me confused

chipmonkey Tue 02-Oct-12 22:31:00

MrsK, if you can't whinge here, where can you whinge, eh? I'm glad you and your colleague had a little moment, I honestly thing only people who have lost a child every truly get it.

chipmonkey Wed 03-Oct-12 10:15:13

It's tomorrow.
I don't know why I feel nervous, as if something's going to happen. . Nothing is going to happen.
Yesterday, dh was in a car crash. The car is wrecked and it looks as though it will have to be scrapped. But thank God dh is shaken, has a swollen knew and a sore neck but he's alive! It could have been so much worse.

Oh chip. How horrible about the accident, but so relieved to hear DH is physically ok. I know what you mean about the dread of waiting, as illogical as it might feel, it is still a very real emotion. Have you had any thoughts on how you might like particularly to remember Sylvie-Rose? Sending you wishes for white feathers, rainbows and cloud kisses, and an enormous hug too. X

Chip so glad to hear there wasn't any serious injuries. You and your family certainly have a guardian angel looking after you. I often get that feeling my love. Its usually when something has gone wrong for myself, family or friends. You start doubting everything and the feeling of 'doom and gloom' envelopes you. xxx

MrsKwazii Wed 03-Oct-12 15:42:35

Oh Chip so glad to hear that your DH wasn't seriously hurt. Do you have any plans for tomorrow, or are you going to see how you go? Am thinking of you and yours and sending you lots of love xx

chip and tami - driving home today, amidst sunshine and raindrops, I was given the privilege to see not one, but two huge rainbow arcs against a sky of black clouds. I thought of them immediately as Sylvie-Rose and Tamsin, sending their glorious love to you both, especially when part of the arcs were hidden in the clouds, where I imagined your girls were hidden, peeping through to see my reaction. I sent them both my love, and thought how very much they are missed by their lovely mothers.

chip, sending so much love to Sylvie-Rose, you and the family today. xx

matildawormwood Thu 04-Oct-12 07:36:44

Thinking of you today chip and your lovely Sylvie-Rose xx

Lots of hugs for chip thinking of you x

Thinking about you and all the family today Chips x

MrsKwazii Thu 04-Oct-12 08:26:56

(((())))to you Chip and your whole family, thinking of you and your beautiful Sylvie-Rose xx

Tamisara Thu 04-Oct-12 17:44:24

chip thinking of you and beautiful Sylvie-Rose (((hugs))) xx

Thinking of you tonight Chip, love to you and Sylvie-Rose x
I know that feeling of dread, it would have been Jacob's 1st birthday next Monday and I am dreading it. Holding it together at the moment but have no idea what to expect on the day.
Love and hugs to all those with an anniversary coming up.

chipmonkey Thu 04-Oct-12 19:34:06

thanks all. It wasn't too bad a day, we went to her grave, tidied it up and dh and I had a nice lunch out.
But then, as I was almost home after collecting ds3 and ds4 from nursery, I rolled down the window to speak to my next door neighbour who was out on her drive with her two little girls. She then told them that I had four boys and no girls. And I was just dumbstruck and couldn't even answer. I feel I let Sylvie-Rose down. sad Today of all days.

chip, oh, please don't feel bad. She was being very insensitive. But I am so sorry that you had such an encounter today. However, the really important people in your life know the truth. Sylvie-Rose is always a beautiful and beloved daughter, sister, grandchild and niece. That will never change. xx

MrsKwazii Thu 04-Oct-12 19:47:55

Chip you didn't let Sylvie-Rose down - no way. Your neighbour was incredibly insensitive, so sorry that you had to face that today

chipmonkey Thu 04-Oct-12 20:28:27

And I thought for a minute, maybe she was trying to protect her dd's. But my little guys were sitting in the car and when we got to our drive ds3 said "What did she mean, no girls?"

tallulah cross-posted with you. I will be thinking of your little man on his first birthday and hoping he has found our little lady to play with!

lavandes Thu 04-Oct-12 22:18:01

Sending love to you and your family today chipxx

chipmonkey Thu 04-Oct-12 23:05:44

Hey Lavandes xx

MrsY Fri 05-Oct-12 11:29:43

Morning ladies. Hope you are all well and having gentle days.

I'm having a bad morning today, and wish I could call in sick, but seeing as I already asked for today off work, don't think that would be a great idea!

I've been lurking recently, but will try and come back on later to catch up with you all.

I'd like to quickly say a thank you to those of you who supported the auction, by sharing, and bidding. We've raised a great amount for Sands, we really appreciate the support. xxx

Thanks Chip, it would be nice to think of them playing together!
Glad you had a peaceful day, but how difficult for you to explain the insensitivity of your neighbour to your boys.

Hello all. mrsY hope you are feeling better this morning, and that you feel a sense of pride in all the amazing fundraising you have been doing.

chip did you resolve things with your neighbour about what she said (well, didn't say) about Sylvie-Rose, or are you letting it go? Hope you are feeling 'better', whatever that is. A whole year seems inconceivable though. Just impossible.

tallulah thinking of you in these next few days in the lead-up to Jacob's birthday. I hope they are gentle for you. And I am sure our children are playing together - in fact, I recently had a dream where I saw Mia in a big house playing with lots of children I didn't know...

Ten days to go now until Mia's inquest. My parents arrive on Tuesday. Feeling calm about it all, but also slightly sick. DH and MiasGrandad have put hundreds of hours of preparation into it all. Now organising the necessary mundanities - lunch, tea and coffee facilities, taxis for various people... We weren't going to be given a conference room or access to a kettle until our lawyer pointed out that I am 31 weeks' pregnant. Just odd.

Tomorrow we are off to plant snowdrops, an activity organised by a local bereaved parents' group.

Helyantha Sat 06-Oct-12 12:07:03

Hello all. There seem to be a lot of anniversaries around at this time of year - you are all in my thoughts and prayers.

Mias I can only imagine how hard it is for you to have to prepare for an inquest so close to your baby's arrival - lots of love and support x

DS1 goes off to university today sad I'm so proud but incredibly anxious. I know he worries about me (even though I try to be strong) & I of course want him to have a fantastic time, but...

I can't really talk to anyone because it's all wrapped up with losing DS3. I know I'd be a bit worried anyway, but it's so hard to articulate. He's a lovely, sensitive soul & I shall miss him sad x

chipmonkey Sat 06-Oct-12 13:52:23

Mias I didn't resolve them. To be fair, I barely talk to her, not because I've ever disliked her ( although I think maybe now I do!) but because I rarely see her. We both work FT and this probably sounds ridiculous but the hedge between our front gardens is so high that we actually have to go out of our drives to see each other. I don't think it's worth pursuing but what it has done is make me more ready to say something if someone else does.

Tamisara Sat 06-Oct-12 13:53:11

Helyantha I think how you're feeling is normal, though of course, no one in RL would understand, not really; empathise - yes, but truly understand - no! It's incredibly brave though, to send him off, to have a fantastic time, even with a lump in your throat, and an ache in your heart (((hugs))) xx

Sorry for my off/on appearances, I don't really understand it, but I (at times) want to run away from my feelings, and think by staying away from this thread, then I can pretend I am fine, that I am coping well... and to all intents & purposes, it does appear to be successful. That is until something, just little, triggers me.

Yesterday I took DD1 to a new toddler group. It was fine, lots of little babies, no pangs from me at all.

Then we started singing. Again, fine. Until we sung "You are my sunshine" and bam it hit me. I pressed my fingers against my palm, trying to distract the pain. My eyes still welled up, and I had to take several deep gulps. Throughout it, I smiled at DD1, determined that she shouldn't have a different mum to others. Of course her life is different to others, but what the hell is normal? I know the singer saw me, and I'm angry, why the hell did that song trigger something?

chipmonkey Sat 06-Oct-12 16:26:25

Tami, music just has that effect. I have always cried at certain songs and there are others that I used to listen to around the time Sylvie-Rose died, that I will never listen to again without crying.

I know what you mean about staying away and feeling that you can cope. I feel that I'm always pretending to cope.

whiteandyelloworchid Sat 06-Oct-12 18:56:09

Hi everyone, been very up and down, Thu had quite a nice day, then in the evening out with friends for a meal, actually did have a nice time, came home went to bed, woke up at three am,couldn't

whiteandyelloworchid Sat 06-Oct-12 19:00:05

Couldn't get baby orchid out of my mind, my.mind was just racing, then.I couldn't stop sobbing was the first time I've drank any alcohol I think since I lost my son, I'm afraid to drink really incase it unleshrs a sobbing beast.

Chip I'm so sorry you had to experience your neighbours comment on such a difficult.day, if you went back in time what would you say? This is definatly the sort of thing

whiteandyelloworchid Sat 06-Oct-12 19:00:51

Couldn't get baby orchid out of my mind, my.mind was just racing, then.I couldn't stop sobbing was the first time I've drank any alcohol I think since I lost my son, I'm afraid to drink really incase it unleshrs a sobbing beast.

Chip I'm so sorry you had to experience your neighbours comment on such a difficult.day, if you went back in time what would you say? This is definatly the sort of thing

whiteandyelloworchid Sat 06-Oct-12 19:02:58

That happens to me, as when I was pregnant this last time before I had this miscarriage in august, people keep refering to the new baby I was expecting as baby number two and saying stuff to.me like just wait till you have two. When I already have two children just one of them has died

whiteandyelloworchid Sat 06-Oct-12 19:05:18

That happens to me, as when I was pregnant this last time before I had this miscarriage in august, people keep refering to the new baby I was expecting as baby number two and saying stuff to.me like just wait till you have two. When I already have two children just one of them has died

whiteandyelloworchid Sat 06-Oct-12 19:06:06

Sorry about he crazy posting. I'm on my phone, having a lay down in bed, hiding basically sad

whiteandyelloworchid Sat 06-Oct-12 19:08:20

Do anyone of you knowany good books worth reading regarding child loss? My neighbor gave me a book called the art of happiness. One just started it, it says you should look at people in worse situations than yourself and be thankful your not them but I'm not sure that really a nice thing to do. J started a thread about it in chat actually

whiteandyelloworchid Sat 06-Oct-12 19:11:02

We visited baby orchids grave today to change the flowers, dh said he thinks we should come down on Xmas day, it ten Min walk from our house. not sure why but my instinct was to say not sure about Xmas day maybe Xmas eve.
And I'm.not sure why that is

whiteandyelloworchid Sun 07-Oct-12 04:14:07

Anyone else awake at this time? This is when I always wake 4 ish even though I'm totally exhausted :-(

Hello Orchid, I've been waking early too lately, it was 12.30 am this morning! had to read then fall asleep on the sofa so as not to wake Dh. It's in the middle of the night that all the hard thoughts and feelings come rushing back, all the memories and what ifs. I can cope during the day, keep busy, go to work etc. Everyone thinks we cope so well but they don't see the way we fall apart in private.
Hope you managed to go back to sleep for a while.

Helyantha Sun 07-Oct-12 12:01:07

Thank you tami. It's another new chapter for all of us & I know he'll be fine. It will take me & DH a while to adjust though smile I completely understand your desire to escape your feelings &, strangely, music can sometimes help me do that. On the other hand, it can trigger things completely out of the blue & there's no way of knowing. I had to leave a works do recently because the band played a song which totally threw me. It's the combination of a big social event & 'something else' which I find hard. Be gentle on yourself x

Orchid I found Elizabeth Kubler Ross's book 'On Children & Death' useful. She's an eminent psychologist, but writes in a very accessible way.

whiteandyelloworchid Sun 07-Oct-12 12:46:41

hi tallulah, sorry what a terrible night, i agree i find the nights far far worse.
nights are the hardest as you just can;t switch your mind off
i did get a bit of sleep i think, just really getting exhusted with it now

hely, tnanks for the book recomendation, i shall look intot that

chipmonkey Sun 07-Oct-12 14:49:24

white you poor thing, what an awful night you had.

If I could go back in time..... I'd say "Actually we do have a little girl but she died" which is something Mias said to someone once. And then let my neighbour explain to her children about death and dying.

A book that I got for my kindle ages ago is "Walking in the Garden of Souls" by George Anderson. He is a medium and I do happen to believe in an afterlife so I found it hugely comforting.

whiteandyelloworchid Sun 07-Oct-12 17:14:49

thanks chip, hop i get a better night tonight.
might try an evening walk and a bath before bed.

i shall look that book up, sounds good.

i shall also try and bank that response as its simple and to the point.
i find that sort of thing so difficult

lavandes Sun 07-Oct-12 23:08:03

Hi Ladies x

Don't know if I can be of any help but for about a year I used to wake at 4 am and be totally awake. It was horrible, But it has passed I very rarely wake in the night now and be unable to go back to sleep. Hope this will be the same for you, I think this is where the saying 'the darkest hour is justbefore dawn' comes from. xx

white I am often awake very early too, and can't go back to sleep. It is a time for me to quietly examine my feelings about Mia. Somehow, in the dark, my feelings are less extreme, and while I feel incredibly sad, I just mainly think how much I love her.

The phrase that chip mentioned is very useful. I saw it in an article a few months ago about a woman who lost her child too. I have used it several times since then.

We planted our snowdrops today. It was lovely, cold but lots of sunshine. Various friends who have children the same age as Mia came along, and it was sweet watching the little girls concentrate on placing bulbs in the holes, putting the "lids" back on top, and stamping them back into the ground. Mia would have loved it. I felt she was very pleased seeing us all together. We all have taken a little potted snowdrop bulb home, and once planted, it will multiply and spread across the garden. Pockets of Mia love for us all.

MrsY Mon 08-Oct-12 14:23:18

Hello all.

Thanks Mias, I am very proud.

We went to a memorial service for our local Sands group yesterday. It was really emotional, but also nice to write and hear his name, I don't do it very often. They gave us each a white flower and some bulbs to plant, so I'll try and do that with M later, if the rain lets up.

There's something about being awake at night, the silence, the darkness. It used to be a bit of a treat - mummy only time. Now it's just a reminder that I should be up feeding, and time to think too much.

I've now been back at work two weeks, and had a few wobbles (babies and pregnant staff being insensitive and general hormones etc) and I have a meeting tomorrow. On Friday they said they thought I' gone back too soon and maybe I shouldn't be at work until I'd got over it. I let it go at the time because my emotions were all over the place, but I will say something about that tomorrow. Does anyone know what the rules are if a company thinks you are not fit too work?

My5boysandme Mon 08-Oct-12 21:39:11

My darling Dexter passed away on the 24/09/12 aged 13 weeks and 4 days. I miss him so much and my arms ache to hold him. He has 4 older brothers who miss him so much too xx

MrsDeVere Mon 08-Oct-12 21:41:48

I am glad you found your way over to us my5
I am so very sorry that you had to x

MrsKwaHaHaHaAzii Mon 08-Oct-12 22:17:11

Hello My5 so sorry to hear about your baby boy Dexter. My four-year old daughter died earlier this year after an accident, this thread and the wonderful women on it have been a real help to me over the last few months and I hope you will be able to find some comfort here too.

MrsY and Mias the bulb planting is a lovely idea. There were crocuses flowering when DD1 died and I can't decide whether it would make me happy or very sad to have some in the garden. And MrsY your auction for SANDS was fantastic, what a brilliant thing to have done xx

Hope all of you having trouble sleeping can get some good night's rest soon. I find broken sleep makes it harder to deal with my emotions during the day. I cope a lot better after a decent rest, but it's not always possible.

whiteandyellow I found the books "The Worst Loss" and "I Wasn't Ready To Say Goodbye" helpful. I read a lot in the first few months - I think it helped as I wanted to be reassured that what I was feeling was normal. I think that what I learned is that whatever you do or don't do or need to do is normal for you and you should do what feels right for you. Other people do try hard to help, but none of them will really know how you're feeling or what is right for you (and when).

matildawormwood Mon 08-Oct-12 22:30:14

I am so very sorry for the loss of your beloved Dexter My5boys. My baby boy was stillborn at 38 weeks back in May. I can't believe it's been five months already. You will find plenty of support and understanding here.

whiteandyellow I found the book "An exact replica of a figment of my imagination" by Elizabeth McCracken a bit of a godsend in those terrible early weeks. It's basically a very down-to-earth and personal memoir about her pregnancy and stillbirth and I found it really resonated for me. She's a great writer and was spot on about so many things and it helped me to feel less alone. You can get it on Amazon.

Hope everyone else is ok this evening xx

Sorry 5boys, you must still be so shell shocked. Would you like to tell us more about Dexter?
Everyone here is so understanding. I don't post often but lurk a lot and when I need support someone always answers.

My5boysandme Tue 09-Oct-12 09:43:09

Dexter was my 5th son, a very much wanted little boy. Everyone thought I'd want a girl, but I was so pleased to be having another boy.

Dexter was born on 21/06/12 at 37 weeks. We has a few names we liked but Dexter wasn't even on our radar. Our 4 boys have very scottish names, Kyle 9, Cameron 7, Innes 5 and Harris 3.
After he was born I was holding him in my arms and the name Dexter just popped into my head and I knew that would be his name.

I adored Dexter, he was almost like a firstborn, as I had so much time just me and him due to older boys being at school and nursery.
Dexter slotted in so well, the older boys wanting to do everything for him.

Dexter had a vey strong personality at such a young age. He hated being naked, bathed and hated his Moses basket. He hated hats! Dexter had a really long thin tongue and more often than not he was sticking it out. He loved cuddles and I would hold him for hours, I'm glad I did.

On Dexters last day he giggled heartily for the 1st time, when I was playing peekaboo.

My dh was going way overnight for the 1st time for work, so he left the house at 4pm the last time he seen Dexter, who was giving him big smiles.
I gave Dexter his last bottle at 5.30pm changed his bum, i took him upstairs ad settled him in his cot at 6.30pm. The other boys went to their rooms to play their computers. I checked on him just before 7.30 and he was gone.

Did 999 and I did everything they said and still I wasn't enough. Police and ambulance arrived at 7.45with my parents. Dexter was taken to hospital and pronounced dead at 8.45. My dh arrived in Birmingham to be told about Dexter, there was no flights or trains, so had to stay there until the morning where he could get a flight to Edinburgh.

When Dexter was born dh missed it, he nipped to the toilet and be he wasn't there when he died. Dh feels incredibly guilty and sad over this.

Dexter was special, and I like to think he picked us as his parents xx

matildawormwood Tue 09-Oct-12 09:56:47

Dexter sounds wonderful. And what a wonderful family to be born into with his four older brothers looking out for him. I'm sure he did choose you. What comes through most in your post is how much love and warmth he would have been surrounded by, it's all he would have known, but how cruel and unfair that he couldn't stay longer. I'm truly sorry. xx

Morning girls xx

Lighting my candles for all our precious children (no matter what age)

Dexter sounds lovely - this life is very, very cruel xxxx

hello all you lovely ladies, I'm still lurking and following your posts, but finding it hard sometimes to post.

On Monday 15th October it is Pregnancy and Infant Loss Remembrance day. There is also an International Wave of Light, where everyone lights a candle at 7pm to remember all those babies and children gone too soon.

Is there a way we can have MN HQ to put this in the spotlight? I know last year I had started a thread and it was in the highlighted conversations or something, I'm just planning ahead a bit more this year, as I think it is important. There are so many of us affected by losing a precious child.
I know on this thread there is a lot of support for each other, but it would be good to raise some more awareness... smile

Oh my5, what a shock for you. You do sound like a very loving family. I'm glad your glad you cuddled him a lot! It's not long enough I know but I hope you can cherish all the memories of him you have. My Jacob lived for 5 days and although looking back and remembering is difficult I wouldn't swop those days for anything.
Blue, if you 'like' SANDS on facebook they have been advertising this, I have been sharing it, you're right, it is so important to raise awareness, even if it only helps someone say the right thing to a bereaved parent.

chipmonkey Tue 09-Oct-12 11:48:56

Glad you found us, "myfive" and again, so sorry that you had to.
I tried CPR on Sylvie-Rose, the paramedics tried to revive her, hospital staff got her heart going again but too late for her little brain.sad
It was like a nightmare but it was real.
I'm glad you got to see Dexter smile. Sylvie-Rose had the brightest eyes but she never got to the smiling stage. Just after she died, I had a dream that she was lying in her cot but then turned her head up and smiled. I like to think she was letting me know she was OK and happy.

whiteandyelloworchid Tue 09-Oct-12 14:46:11

myfive i'm so so sorry for your loss, i love the name dexter that you choose.
how awful for you both that your dh wasn't there that night.
i can see how that would really hurtsad
i'm so glad you got to hear dexter laugh, that must have been wonderful

i my son died very shortly after he was born, on the same day. i know there are no words i can say to make you feel better but i'm around if you need to talk as is everyone else on this thread.

have you been able to make a memory box of anything like that?

thanks very much for the book recomendations, i shall look for those on amazon.

blue i will be lighting a candle on mon at pm

chipmonkey Tue 09-Oct-12 14:49:37

Sorry, Blue, meant to say, if you start a thread and then then report the thread to MNHQ, they will probably sticky it.

MrsY Tue 09-Oct-12 18:53:13

my5, I'm so so sorry for your loss. Tomorrow will be six months since we lost our son, who died shortly before he was born at full term. It's just the worst pain to bear, but you will grow to be strong enough to carry that weight.

Dexter was clearly so well loved and looked after. He'll always know that.

I will be joining the wave of light. It's moments like that that make you realise you aren't alone, but that also makes me so sad.

I have my first counselling session tomorrow, and obviously tomorrow will be hard anyway. Not looking forward to it, but I hope it will help.

Just went onto active threads and saw the post-natal group I should be on. First time that's happened. I couldn't resist the urge to look. Talk about self-harming.

MrsY Tue 09-Oct-12 18:57:31

Sorry, my5, I also meant to say, that we all have guilt and regrets when we know logically we aren't to blame in anyway - I hope you and your husband are kind on yourselves.

And Blue, I have spoken to MNHQ about promoting Sands - they were brill at promoting the auction - so I'm sure they'll sticky a thread about the wave of light.

chipmonkey Tue 09-Oct-12 19:56:06

MrsY, Blue, fioled and I are all on a postnatal FB group together. I do find it hard sometimes to see the babies who are well and thriving, when our babies didn't make it. But they were such a wonderful support too, when Sylvie-Rose died that I do like to check in on them from time to time. One baby in particular, little W who was born premature like Sylvie-Rose but who is growing and thriving, is very dear to me as is fioled's gorgeous X.

My5boysandme Tue 09-Oct-12 21:33:11

I have just read this thread from the start. It's an unfortunate exclusive group, that no one wants to be on.
I'm glad I've found somewhere that I can get stuff out my head, with mums who know exactly how I feel sad

Hello myfive, I have read your story here about little Dexter, and your words convey so much love. You are right, no-one wants to join this group, and I am sure many on MN are fearful of it. Yet the ladies here are incredibly supportive and lovely. They have been amazing to me, and continue to help me so much, just by understanding everything.

Today started at 5am when I picked up my parents. Lovely to see them, but it brings the reality of Mia's inquest ever closer. Actually, the day started earlier than that as I was dreaming about Mia's death... then this morning, a friend came around with her little girl, who was due the same time as Mia. The little girl is a real poppet, and she loves coming to "Mia's house." But it broke my heart when we went up to the toys, and she asked "Mia? Mia?" so very hopefully, even though she was also only one when Mia died. I had to tell her that Mia wasn't here... And then this afternoon we had a 32 week scan and consultant meeting. All good, and we have discussed a ELCS date in early December, choosing a day which didn't coincide with my brother's wedding in late Nov. But we are not sure if we will tell anyone, as I am still too scared in case something goes wrong. I hate thinking this way. I just want my love for Mia and this new baby to be pure and beautiful.

blue the wave of light is the first day of Mia's inquest. sad

chipmonkey Wed 10-Oct-12 09:38:50

Mias, I think sometimes coincidences like that are for a reason. The inquest will be a tough, tough time for you but any of us who light a candle for the Wave of Light will also be sending a wave of light for Mia.
32 weeks already! And you know there's no reason why things shouldn't go well with your beautiful baby but I think after what we've all been through, it's hard to convince yourself of that.

MrsY I returned to my postnatal group as well, like chip said, the ladies on there are such a support.

I will start up a thread later, need to dash off to my first counselling session today too...
Where do you think is the best place to start on in? Don't really want to stick it in bereavement...

Mia like chip said, it will be a special wave of light for Mia on the 15th to support you and your family through the inquest. x

MrsY Wed 10-Oct-12 13:36:42

Mias, I totally agree with chip and Blue, the wave of light is meant to be on the first day of the inquest. It will shine a light on you all, giving you knowledge and you need to ride the wave and go where it takes you. I will be thnking of you, Mia and the baby, and sending such love.

Good luck wit your counselling session Blue, my stomach is in knots about my session this afternoon. I would put it in chat? It doesn't really matter where I guess (as long as it's appropriate), if MNHQ sticky it.

Today is B's half-birthday. Six months, seven hours and twenty minutes since I held my baby boy in my arms, willing him to have life. I can't believe how different my life is to how it should be.

My5boysandme Wed 10-Oct-12 14:47:57

Have posted a photo of my boy xx

MrsY my counselling session got postponed (again) as I had written down it was at 10.30am and it was booked for 9.30am sad I blame pregnancy brain and not receiving a confirmation letter... It's rebooked for 26th October...
I hope yours went well! I did meet the counsellor and he seemed very nice and friendly which was reassuring! smile

3girlies Wed 10-Oct-12 18:57:40

Lovely pic your boy my5boys. So sorry for all. X.
100 days today that we lost our lovely Flora to a brain tumour.
Had a false start on bereavement counselling today, anyone had it? Where did you go and were you referred?