''Even the smallest of footprints have the power to leave an everlasting imprint on the Earth'' Remembering with love our darling children

(994 Posts)

Remembering not only what we have lost but what our darling children have given to us.

A new 'safe haven' thread. Thank you Chip for our last one which filled up in just a month. A sure sign of lots of tears, smiles and wonderful support.

All our children have taught us something whether they were born sleeping, lived just a little while, weeks, months or years. Here are mine:

Never ever take anything for granted, life can change very quickly.
Listen to yourself; your instincts will nearly always be right.
That it is possible to function  seemingly normally with a broken heart.
That I have a wonderful relationship that can withstand the hardest of times.
That love and support can come from the most unexpected sources.
That I have a lot of very lovely friends, new and old.
That my family is amazing.
That no matter what it is impossible not to smile and laugh with my beautiful Katie around.
That a rainbow can provide hope in the darkest of times.
That there will be good days and bad days
That I love my children more than I ever thought possible.

For all our darling children xxx

everlong Tue 17-Apr-12 22:01:53

A really lovely title whatever and a beautiful first post!

Thank you chip for your thread.

Always remembering my first son Oliver, a real monkey with the biggest heart. Loved and thought of everyday, forever.

thank you for the new thread whatever

chip thanks for the previous one!

For my darling Sterre: Love, like starlight, never dies! Miss you!

chipmonkey Tue 17-Apr-12 22:39:18

Thanks, whatever. smile Lovely thread title.

Have had to pin on a virtual smile this evening. A college friend just posted on FB. His wife just gave birth to their fifth baby, a little sister to four big brothers. Just like we had. It has knocked me for six. I should be happy for them but I feel so insanely jealous. Which is not a nice trait, is it? Sometimes it seems like circumstances collude to twist the knife just a little bit more.

lavandes Wed 18-Apr-12 07:00:52

Precious memories of our beloved Richard, taken from us so suddenly two years ago today, a loving dad, son and brother missed so much. He will live on forever in our hearts. xxx

Thanks for another lovely thread whatever.

everlong Wed 18-Apr-12 07:42:51

Morning smile

Feeling pooped. I did aerobics and pilates in the morning and yoga in the evening yesterday. Too much for an old gimmer like me!

chip ((big hug)) your feelings regarding your friends news is totally understandable. Who wouldn't be knocked for six hearing this in your shoes.

I'm sorry things are tough for you atm. Be kind to yourself xxx

Tamisara Wed 18-Apr-12 09:12:34

Whatever A lovely title & a beautiful first post xx

Chip Thanks for the last thread smile I wish I could give you a huge ((())), I'm sorry you're feeling so down (though it's perfectly understandable), I hope this passes quickly for you, it really is shit, and I think you're coping amazingly well xx

everlong I wish I was half as energetic as you smile xx

Tamisara Wed 18-Apr-12 09:15:33

I forgot to say that I'm remembering Tamsin Rainbow, my longed for 2nd DD and 3rd child, my beautiful, black-haired, blue-eyed girl, who will be forever a missed little sister. They say time heals and makes it better, 6 months in I'm sure that is not true, the pain is still as bad, you just get used to the feeling of continual heartache, pining & longing xx

fioled Wed 18-Apr-12 09:16:50

Gorgeous new thread whatever - I love your first post. B has taught me so much the same. smile

Our beautiful baby Belle we miss you. Loved to the moon and back, always. I wish my biggest wish could come true xxx

chip jealousy is normal. You know what, I still have a twang and cope much less well with baby girl announcements.

lavandes thoughts with you today.

whatever what an achingly beautiful first post. Might I use the first line as part of our Mia's Wood description? That is exactly how we feel about Mia - that even a little person can make a big difference to the world.

For my beautiful red-headed girl - Mia, you made your daddy and I the happiest people in the world when you arrived into our lives. You have changed us forever. You nestle in my heart.

lavandes special <<hugs>>> to you today, remembering Richard. May your memories make you smile, and your love for him overflow.

chip my friend, if you didn't feel jealous, then you would be a saint of the highest degree. You are a mummy to four beautiful boys and Sylvie-Rose, forever. No-one else is her mummy, that is your special, unique role.

blizy Wed 18-Apr-12 09:46:07

Whatever- beautiful title and and a wonderful post. Thank you

Chip- thank you for the last thread. It is very much normal to be envious. I can't bring myself to take on any little girl mindees for the Same reason.

Lavandes- thinking of you and Richard today. X

blizy Wed 18-Apr-12 09:47:26

Oops posted too soon.

Remembering by beautiful Zoe bear every minute of every day. Love you with all of my being. X

orion3 Wed 18-Apr-12 10:15:27

Thank you for the new thread and what a lovely post whatever

Remembering my beautiful boy Jude, today and every day.

everlong Wed 18-Apr-12 10:32:57

Dear lavandes <holding you tight today> remembering your wonderful son Richard I'm going to light a new candle from my friend and think of you both today xxxx

chipmonkey Wed 18-Apr-12 11:41:26

Am just going to pop out and light a candle for Richard here too, lavandes

Tamisara Wed 18-Apr-12 12:32:29

lavandes I posted before I'd read properly. I'm thinking of you & Richard too. I hope you are being kind to yourself xx

Miasmummy I've put some photos of Bluebells, taken in my garden yesterday for you. I was so excited to see them xx

chip I've got a photo I wanted to put up for you (it's a monkey face in a tree, but for some (mad) reason, I want you to see it, but I can't find it at the moment, when I do, I'll let you know xx

I've also put a couple of photos of the jacket I bought for Tamsin up, it's hard to see in the photo, but the lining has rainbow stripes... bloody ironic now xx

chipmonkey Wed 18-Apr-12 17:35:29

So tami, you look at monkeys and you think of me?


Remembering Scarlett Niamh, always loved, never forgotten. We took Ella to visit her again the other day with some flowers. Time to start looking at headstones again sad it just isn't right.

Tamisara Wed 18-Apr-12 18:36:39

Chip I look at warthogs & think of me (poor warthogs) smile it was due to your name, and I dreamt about them before I knew there was a tree with a monkey face in, I've always considered it lucky for some reason xx

Tamisara Wed 18-Apr-12 18:39:46

I found it chip, and have uploaded it! xx

everlong Wed 18-Apr-12 18:41:14

<< goes off to look at monkey chip >>

I'm intrigued tami is this some little in joke with you two grin

everlong Wed 18-Apr-12 18:42:46

Yes I can see the resemblance!

Joke chip I've seen your photo's you are gorgeous wink

Sorry to intrude ladies but this thread just appeared in active conversations and sadly it's someone who will need your help.

lavandes Wed 18-Apr-12 19:18:29

Hi ladies xx

Thankyou all for your kind messages today. I do appreciate all the support you have given me over the past 2 years. xx

everlong Wed 18-Apr-12 19:28:44

lavandes I know how hard today will have been. How's your dh? Xx

Lavandes haven't managed to get on today but have been thinking about you and Richard xx

chipmonkey Wed 18-Apr-12 21:15:59

everlong says I'm gorgeous. <<makes mental note to book everlong in for eye exam>>>

Tami, that photo is so cool! grin

Haven't seen Shabs around for ages? Is she okay does anyone know?

wtw she was without internet today! Lew has been keeping her busy too wink

everlong Wed 18-Apr-12 21:51:03

Actually chip my eyes are shot. You are still gorgeous though <creep>

lavandes Wed 18-Apr-12 22:21:00

I think my dh is ok everlong but he does not show his feelings much. His sister rang and said 'its today isn't it' I said 'yes its been a difficult day' she went on to tell me her daughter's new phone number then spent the next 10 mins telling me about her other daughter who has split up with her partner. She didn't ask me how I was feeling just said 'we are thinking of you' before the end of the call. I am upset today and maybe overreacting but I felt like I was an afterthought and Richard wasn't mentioned. My sister phoned and was very supportive. It is a very lonely road we travel don't you think? xx

lavandes I think I'd feel a bit weird too, especially because she knew the special day was about Richard, and then didn't even say his name. sad People around me are starting to do the same about Mia.

chipmonkey Wed 18-Apr-12 23:36:40

Lavandes, that is so hurtfulsad Dreadful that someone who knew Richard would talk about him as if he were an afterthought.

everlong Thu 19-Apr-12 06:35:25

lavandes I'm sorry about your sil sad I despair of people sometimes. I've thought long and hard in the past why they behave like this. And I think it boils down to different personalities and how some people cope with others loss or terrible situations. Some people are just inept.

My sis rang me the day after Oliver died. ' how are you? ' she asked. My reply wasn't very pleasant. She then went on to tell me it would take a good few months to get over it. I'm not kidding.

But we understand lavandes and we care about you.

lavandes Thu 19-Apr-12 07:26:44

Morning ladies xx

You are right everlong I really think she has no idea how to talk to me. She is probably afraid of saying the wrong thing so says nothing. I will explain it all to her one day when I am stronger. It boils down to the fact that the only people who really understand are the people who have lost their children.

lavandes Thu 19-Apr-12 07:29:04

Another thought is maybe our families need the counselling and not us!!!

everlong Thu 19-Apr-12 08:33:36

Yes lavandes I think that is it exactly, unless you've lost a child you don't know, can't understand how it feels.

Dh and I were talking about this, he said that nobody talks about Oliver anymore as if we are over losing him. People don't get that this heavy pain is with us for life. But I'd rather carry it than feel like I was over him not being here, it's a reminder.

Maybe when you're feeling a little easier you could chat to sil, might be a relief for her too.

chipmonkey Thu 19-Apr-12 09:48:42

I think most people's experience of death is losing a parent or grandparent. Which can be devastating but you do eventually get over it. I miss my Dad, he died too young, it was a shock but rarely, if ever get upset enough to cry about him. People seem to believe that it's like that only worse, when it's not the same type of grief at all.

everlong Thu 19-Apr-12 12:43:27

Yes I think you're right chip

It's not their fault and you wouldn't want them to realise the pain of losing a child but I can't emphasise enough how different it is. I lost my mum at 4 yrs old and my dad when I was 40.

It was hard, especially my mum but you do get over it. You can get over it. I feel horrible sometimes when someone I know loses am elderly parent and they tell me now they know how I feel. Because I want to say, no you don't because it's not the same. You will be ok one day.

But you can't say that.

Tamisara Thu 19-Apr-12 14:47:10

Gosh, you are all so right. The nearest I can compare to a parent (and I admit it's not the same) is my nan. I was very, very close to her. I went to hers every weekend, and spent weeks there. Even after DS was born, we'd go there regularly. I was crushed when she died, but it's not the same as Tamsin, not at all. Funnily enough both my nan & granddad lost siblings (babies), but I don't know the impact on their parents, I'm figuring infant mortality rates were so high, that it was commonplace, and I expect grief was frowned upon.

I feel a fool today. I saw a woman I know, who just so happens to have a DD the same age as DD1. She said that she didn't think that she'd have another, and asked if I'd consider having another. I told her I did, and told her about Tamsin, and you could see that she didn't know how to react. I quickly changed the subject back to our DDs. But the conversation was over quickly. I feel stupid, and a bit mean, for mentioning Tamsin sad

everlong Thu 19-Apr-12 14:49:43

It's crazy how we accommodate others when they feel awkward regarding our lost children.

It should so be the other way around shouldn't it?

chipmonkey Thu 19-Apr-12 14:54:12

Tami, I have done exactly the same and I have to say, in our situation, it is others who should be accommodating. I am not going to stop mentioning Sylvie-Rose, she is my youngest. If that lady was uncomfortable, it was her problem, not yours. Maybe she should have a think about the correct response to someone who has lost a child.

Tami you can't deny part of you just so someone else feels 'comfortable'.

Today I had to explain to a potential business associate why I hadn't done much work recently - nothing for it but to explain about Mia. I managed to say it without crying or feeling too awkward, and fortunately, she was very nice, acknowledged Mia in a pleasant but not overly effusive way, and then we were able to continue the conversation.

Last night though, I had an unexpected skype with a friend whose son is a day younger than Mia. She is a little too forthright, and despite me saying that I really hated the "how ARE you?" question, didn't pick up the hint at all, and carried on and asked me if I was working and if I wanted more children...

Thank goodness for the sensible words from everlong, chip and lavandes. People really sometimes just don't get it. Even people you expect would know better.

Wow, lots of nausea today.

Tamisara Thu 19-Apr-12 15:04:00

It absolutely should be them who accommodate us, I wonder if it's such a shock, that it throws them. I'm sure this woman wasn't horrifed, but I suppose I felt bad.

I wonder if I would have known how to react. I had a friend, whose son was stillborn, a few months before I conceived DS. I was there for her though. I remember thinking how awful it was. But she seemed to get over it quickly - idiot me, she didn't, but she 'pinned on a smile' and no one knows, no one does do they? We may smile, talk about the 'weather', pass pleasantries, and not breakdown constantly, but underneath it we're still in pain. But to the outsider we're 'fine now'.

I have another friend who had a very premature DD in 1992. Her DD died soon after birth (she was very, very premature). I went to her funeral, and my friend had another two DC. I'd do her cards sometimes, and she'd cry. She'd go funny every February, and need to be alone (the anniversary of her DD's birth/death). I did understand that she was still upset by it, but again the impact and depth of the loss was lost on me. It really is one of those things that you don't know till you've been there. To my shame I probably thought having a stillborn was less upsetting as they hadn't lived outside, it's bloody awful having that notion knocked out of me.

Ignorance truly is bliss.

Tamisara Thu 19-Apr-12 15:05:44

miasmummy how insensitive of your friend. Sorry about the nausea, but that's a good sign xx

chipmonkey Thu 19-Apr-12 15:44:34

Yes, nausea is very, very good. <<<wishes lots of nausea on Mias>>> wink

everlong Thu 19-Apr-12 16:32:25

Yay to nausea smile

orion3 Thu 19-Apr-12 16:51:29

I have some friends that would rather not mention Jude. Some close relatives came to see us on Boxing Day, three days after Jude died, and apart from a very patronising cuddle they didn't mention him. Not even once. When they went we felt that we'd helped them through the visit not the other way round. Most of my friends are fine with me talking about him as much as i need to and I really hope they never expect me to stop.
I agree that nobody know the depth of loss and the physical pain unless they've been here. I don't wish that on anyone though.
Good news on the nausea miasmummy how far on are you?

orion you suddenly learn who your real friends are, don't you? Like you, I hope mine will always encourage me to speak about Mia. I am always grateful when they bring her into the conversation.

I am 6 weeks... and very nervous, despite the nausea, long may it continue!!

Dear all, if you haven't seen it, I just wanted to let you know that there is another thread here called Mothers Instinct which some of you might be interested in supporting on FB, given the various concerns people have expressed about their treatment in hospital. It has been recently set up to campaign for more respect and consideration by hospital staff for parents when they have concerns about their pregnancies and sick children - and to avoid further child deaths.

I have never tried to link before, but this is worth it. Here goes Mothers Instinct

travellingwilbury Thu 19-Apr-12 18:40:49

Hello all , lovely thread title wtw and thank you chip for the last one x

Remembering Harry , my gorgeous funny , happy , smily , watchful boy , always missed and never ever forgotten x

Sorry to hear that lots of us have been encountering dhac's recently. People certainly don't know how to react do they. Erin is barely mentioned now unless I instigate it.

That's a very worthwhile campaign Mias Yay for nausea - I felt rotten for about 6 weeks but perversely relished it as it was a sure sign someone was making themselves comfy smile

Went to midwife today, baby kicked just as I laid down so I was able to say exactly where s/he was. Found heartbeat instantly which was so reassuring as it means the nudges I've been feeling definitely are baby! Roll on Wednesday.

orion3 Thu 19-Apr-12 20:51:13

I agree miasmummy the sickness is such a good sign. I've had shocking sickness for the last three months but now I'm over it. It was such a good sign that things are happening.
Some people just aren't cut out for talking about death and loss and I worry that I was one of those people before it happened to me. I hope I didn't fail to acknowledge someone's pain and grief, I'd be gutted if I was so heartless.

chipmonkey Fri 20-Apr-12 12:13:25

Good afternoon. xx

where is everyone? has everyone been knocked out by today's hailstones or caught in a torrential downpour? Or has the rain caused power cuts throughout the UK and no-one except me has internet?!? Oh no!!!

First night away from DH since Mia died (actually, even longer than that) as I am at a governor strategy seminar til tomorrow lunchtime. Feels ok now, might feel different later on... have my Mia photo on the side of the bed, smiling happily at me.

Hope the night goes ok Miasmummy

Hi Chip smile

Whatever that's reassuring smile

Orion glad the sickness is over

Having a lazy day today before inlaws come tomorrow. Dh's mum, two younger sisters, brother and brother's girlfriend. Wondering if I can be arsed to do some more cleaning! I'm leaning towards not. Currently snuggling on the sofa with my MN blanket and my boys. Dd1 is trying out a drama lesson and Ella is asleep xx

whatever so glad to hear that there is lots of happy wiggling going on for you - meant to say it before. Roll on Wednesday!!

cheese sure the house will be fine, snuggling sounds a much more productive option to me. Btw, did you ever write to your hospital?

Miasmummy no we haven't yet. I'm going to have to make lots of notes and go through everything again first. Honestly, I've not had the energy, emotionally. I am definitely going to though, hopefully soon.

Cheese, it will happen when you are ready. You've already taken the first step by saying you want to do it. Did you see the Mothers Instinct thread link below? I've joined, because I thought that at least a group of us can be stronger together...

No I must have missed that. I'll read up and find it then join. It's going to be a hard letter to write I fear.

Tamisara Sat 21-Apr-12 21:12:07

Wow it's been quiet on here lately; hope everyone is OK?

Saw the most beautiful, vibrant rainbow today smile

Ok here, made it through my strategy away-day, but obviously it was harder than I thought - at the lightest teasing by DH when I arrived home, I burst into tears, and have felt so heavy inside, just missing Mia, all afternoon. I guess the pressure of being around people I didn't know well for 24 hours was a lot more emotionally challenging than I expected... I have escaped into a trashy book for most of the evening.

tami forgot to say thank you for the bluebell photo. Maybe we should plan that bluebell woods trip soon? And how are you? Loved the rainbow.

cheese your letter will be hard to do, but you will do it, because it's something you feel strongly about.

everlong Sat 21-Apr-12 21:49:54

I'm here smile

tami I saw your rainbow pic, it's beautiful smile how are you feeling?

miasmummy I know it's stating what you already know but you poor thing with your hormones and missing Mia so much you are bound to be fragile. Be extra kind to yourself.

I'm a proud mother tonight. Just got back from watching my 12 year old ds and his band doing a gig in town, they brought the house down ( ds is a drummer ) was soo good. They wrote and produced all their own songs too.

How's everyone?

hi everlong, sounds like you have every reason to be a proud mother tonight!! Very impressed that not only does your DS have a band, write songs, but that they have landed a gig. Wow!! going on tour over the summer then as Mum Roadie?! wink

everlong Sat 21-Apr-12 22:14:13

smile no that's his dad's job. I'm just the goofy mother singing and dancing at the front!

chipmonkey Sun 22-Apr-12 00:03:34

Mias( autocorrect keeps changing you to Miss!) go easy on yourself. You need to take care of yourself and that baby!

Tami, did you take a photo of the rainbow? Sounds like Tamsin is looking out for you.

Everlong, hopefully when that son of yours is a famous rock star, he'll buy you a nice pad in St Tropez!

lavandes Sun 22-Apr-12 00:05:52

Hi ladiesx

I am here Have had dear friends round for meal. They are so supportive and totally 'get it'. During the days after Richard died they would ring and say 'just come for dinner' no pressure they were so kind I will never forget, so now I try to make nice evenings for them. x

orion3 Sun 22-Apr-12 08:01:36

Morning all.
mias it's really exhausting to have your "I'm coping with this" face painted on all day at work so no wonder you found it difficult for 24 hours! Go easy on yourself, it's only to be expected and you did so well to manage it at all. I'm not sure I could.
I'm having a bit of a bad morning. We're going out for lunch with my in laws. My sil lives in oz and we haven't seen her since we lost our boy. She's really lovely but I'm worried about how it will all be. On top of that we're going to tell my pil that I'm pregnant. I'm so worried about this. I know that they'll be pleased but I'm so cautious about telling ( I'm 15 weeks) and I don't want them to think I'm over anything! arghh.

orion I feel for you. That is tricky. When you meet with people quite a time after your child's death, it can be awkward. And then you also have the pressure and excitement of telling them about your pregnancy. However, I am sure that they will be feeling nervous, wanting desperately to say the right thing, and show you how much you and Jude have been in their thoughts.

All you can do is be truthful. Say you are worried, say that you still miss your boy everyday, and that the pregnancy on top of this gives you so many conflicting emotions. If it were me, I would probably prefer to lead the conversation, rather than answer questions initially, so then they can see what your mindset is, and judge their own words accordingly.

everlong Sun 22-Apr-12 10:32:46

<<nods at Miasmummys wise and wonderful words>>

orion3 Sun 22-Apr-12 10:57:55

Thank you guys. Wise words indeed, I hope I can pull it off. If not I'll just hide in the toilet and let dh do it wink
I do know that it'd be easier with a large glass of wine though.
I hope you have an easier day miasmummy

A small glass probably wouldn't hurt! wink You can do it, these people know and love you and Jude, and they only want to make things as easy for you as they can.

orion3 Sun 22-Apr-12 17:52:56

Just back from lunch and all went well. It was weird going over all the details with my lovely sil because she wasnt here for the funeral. My bil came all the way over but she stayed at home with their young kids.
She is really direct and she doesn't beat around the bush. She asked if every day was hell or if it was getting easier and she asked what I was doing with his ashes. I know that some people would feel awkward about beng asked so directly but I really appreciate her honesty.
Told the in laws about the baby and stressed the fact that it was completely low key and not for public consumption. Glad it's done.
No wine miasmummy but a large americano gave me some caffeine courage.

chipmonkey Sun 22-Apr-12 19:58:07

Glad it went well, Orion. I like it when people are not afraid to ask direct questions. So much better than when they beat around the bush for fear of upsetting you.
Back from dinner with some lovely friends. Very relaxing.

tami I've been busy this weekend for a change! Had mil, 2 sil's, bil and his bf visiting and they left today. Dh and dd1 should be back after from dropping his Mum and sisters home. Had quite a nice time actually, it was nice to be sociable. I find that hard a lot of the time and tend to get quite insular so it's good for me to be around others and to get out the house. I remember after Scarlett died that I didn't leave the house for so long, just for her funeral, I couldn't even go and do the school runs. Dh and my mum did them between them. I only realise now how much I actually fell apart.

Miasmummy I'm glad you got through the day but it sounds like it was a really difficult one. I think I understand that heavy feeling, I get similar. What book are you reading? I have so much do to at the moment as well as writing the letter to the hospital. Ds2 (5 years old) is having problems in school with bullying and came home on Friday with a cut and bump on his forehead from being pushed over and dragged by his coat. Bloody school are blaming it on the children all playing games with each other, which I can accept, but why let them do it? Another visit to the head coming now. School has gone downhill in the last couple of years, they can't even find a teacher to teach dd1's (10 years) class apparently...Not for next year either which I'm struggling to believe quite frankly.

everlong your ds sounds amazing! How wonderful that they write all their own songs too! I played the piano when I was younger and I always miss it, not quite a drummer though!

lavandes hey, good to "see" you smile

orion funnily I saw my inlaws this weekend, I'm sure someone here will remember the grief we had with them after Scarlett died. I don't know why, but I have kind of forgiven them for all that just for a good family life (especially with Ella now with us) but cannot forget. I will never forget all the hurt and pain I felt because of that and how they acted. I'm in such a different place now though, maybe I'm just a mug but I do like them and try to make justifications for how they behaved. I'm not perfect and have behaved awfully at times too so maybe I feel I should "get over it" because of that. I actually wonder if a lot of it is mainly in my head, in that I remember it so much because of the situation and they think nothing of it. I do wish I could see what other people are thinking sometimes.

I'm glad your lunch went well. I wish people would ask about Scarlett sometimes, but it's all just glossed over, I suppose I'm just as bad as I put on a smile and get on with things. I disappoint myself sometimes.

How is everyone? Far too much about "Me" in my replies there, sorry. Too much time to think tonight as Ella has been asleep all day, only waking for feeds. She was awake all day yesterday apart from about an hour, must have been meeting new people; she didn't want to miss anything. It's unlike her to be awake so long. She finally settled at midnight last night and didn't wake until 6am! Makes a change from the every 2-3 hours.

It feels good to get some of that out. Feeling far too talkative tonight. I think too much. Trying to avoid posting on another thread too, which is far too close to home. I feel like screaming at them but have avoided it all day but it's popped up again on active convos since yesterday. Must avoid...

everlong Sun 22-Apr-12 20:04:11

Orion your sil sounds lovely, it's quite a relief when you can be honest to someone without having to think about safeguarding their feelings.

Glad it went well for you smile

chip hey, how are you getting on?

everlong Sun 22-Apr-12 20:09:59

Thank you cheese he is an amazing drummer with a huge talent and wants to make a career out of it but he's only 12 so we shall see ( sorry for brag but I can't help it blush ) and don't ever feel you have to say sorry for posting that's what we are here for! smile

chipmonkey Sun 22-Apr-12 20:17:51

Not too bad, Cheese . We are doing our "second burial" tomorrow, putting Sylvie-Rose's retained organs onto her grave. I have deliberately not told MIL as I don't want her turning up for it. it will be just me, dh, our bereavement counsellor from the hospital and the hospital chaplain. Have kept the rest of my diary clear as I think it will be difficult.

I think they say it's better to forgive, but sometimes it's hard. MIL said some dreadful things around the time Sylvie-Rose died on the day of her funeral. I know I should be charitable and move on but God, it can be hard!

everlong thanks smile Brag away! He sounds really good! To be doing so well at age 12 he must be so dedicated as well. I'm not surprised you're so proud smile He sounds a credit to you smile

chip Oh huge hugs for tomorrow, what a big day ahead. I'll be thinking of you tomorrow and will light a candle for you all and Sylvie-Rose.

It is hard Chip, I've had 16 months now to forgive and it did get easier in the past few months. I used to dwell on those things with them a lot but now I think I just can't give it anymore head space. I struggled with it for ages, the initial grief made it all worse of course, as for you too I guess? Bil didn't even come to Scarlett's funeral, which is what caused all the problems. I said things, which thinking back weren't that bad they were just supporting to DH, but mil didn't like it at all and so made dh suffer even more than he needed to with the way she acted.

It's in the past now and they are so many circumstances involved too, she had a stillborn child herself so it must have brought up memories for her and it was different in her days too so I don't think there was a grave either. I think that's mostly why I forgive everything. Not sure about bil, I posted a lot about it at the time and kind of worked through it all in my head. Conclusion really was that he couldn't handle it. Never mind that I would have loved the choice to opt out but...Far too much.

It's cathartic to get it all out now really, I'm in a place where I can really think and sort out what happened in my head, well mostly! Far more than at the time.

If it helps for you to vent about it too chip then do. Didn't realise how much I needed to until now!

I really think far too much though, every little thing I over analyse.

orion3 Sun 22-Apr-12 21:21:30

Hugs to you chip I hope tomorrow passes gently for you. I'll be thinking of you.

chipmonkey Sun 22-Apr-12 21:27:20

MIL has always been "Difficult"
When we had been given the dreadful news that Sylvie-Rose would not survive, I was standing by her NICU cot, MIL was on the other side. I mentioned that I knew it didn't look good as Sylvie-Rose's colour had been very bad when she was in the ambulance outside our house. MIL thought I had meant her colour was bad the night before and shouted at me why hadn't I done anything? As if I would have noticed that my premature baby daughter was off-colour and wouldn't have done anything!

Then on the day of her funeral,before the undertaker came, we were all looking down at her laid out in her Moses basket. I was obv. very upset and dh said to the room in general "Sylvie-Rose will be fine, she's with chip's Dad" at which point MIL shouted "No, she's with God!" Now, there's a time and a place for arguing about religion and if I had taken comfort from Sylvie-Rose being with Elvis, she should have respected that.

She argued with dh about some flowers she wanted to put on the coffin in a bowl of water which we didn't want going on.

It goes on!

But even last week, she was going on about some chap who stood up in Church and was thanking God for having spared him his life when he was very ill and how he had now found religion. And I told her in that case I was justified in turning my back on God altogether! And I haven't actually but I wondered how she thought that snippet was supposed to convert me!

She's just too much and I don't need more of it tomorrow.

orion so glad that today went well for you. Your SIL might be direct, but it sounds like she is open to hearing how you really feel - which can make all the difference sometimes.

cheese sounds to me that you have worked through some serious stuff with your family. That level of forgiveness can't have come easily, so I really admire you for it. School sounds like a real hassle, no wonder you are preoccupied with that. As for the long posting, I totally agree with everlong, that is exactly what this thread is for.

chip you have been in my mind this weekend. I so hope tomorrow isn't too difficult for you, yet at the same time, it's probably wise to plan an easy day afterwards.

As for your MIL - I will give you my mango story, straight from the Tibetan Buddhist lamas in Dharamsala... just not as eloquent or exotic! People are like mangoes. Some are good on the outside, and taste delicious on the inside. Some look horrible on the outside, but are good on the inside. Some are horrible the whole way through. He then went on to say that People can turn 'bad' on the inside when emotions like pride and anger and jealousy consume us. We need to be aware of the power of these emotions, and let them go. They can be far more destructive to us than to anyone else who caused them. Now I am sure you are a good mango, and that you are too strong and kind to become a bad mango, but I have found that reminding myself of this story is very helpful when I have strong negative feelings... and I also come and vent on MN!!

everlong Sun 22-Apr-12 21:39:35

Dear chip we will all be with you tomorrow holding you close, I know it's going to be hard for you, but remember we all care about you xxx

Sorry, cross post. I can see why you have many issue with MIL. She sounds like a real DHAC. Really hope I haven't offended...

chipmonkey Sun 22-Apr-12 21:59:41

Thanks, all. It will be good to know we are in the thoughts of so many kind friends.

Mias, you haven't offended me at all! I love the Mango story. ( And now I want some mango!grin) I think MIL is one of those people who makes me go around muttering "I am bigger than this, I am bigger than this!" at nauseum. And you know, she goes on and on about Jesus but doesn't seem to have learned anything from him IYKWIM.

chip phew!! I would hate to think that you thought I was belittling your very justifiable frustrations with your MIL. Any sort of close-minded religious fervour like that is incredibly hard to deal with, regardless of your own beliefs.

We are walking with you tomorrow. I will watch out for feathers... xx

everlong Sun 22-Apr-12 22:27:11

chip you have more self control than I. If your MIL were mine there would of been major fall outs along the way. She sounds overbearing and insensitive and that's me being kind.

Good on you for not blowing your top.

orion3 Sun 22-Apr-12 22:30:51

chip I agree, your mil sounds like a very difficult person to be around. You do what you need to do tomorrow and know that it's up to you to grieve the way you need to and believe in whatever you believe. Lots of love and hugs.x

chip I can't believe she shouted that at you, how awful sad I totally agree with you, she's with your Dad and she will be well looked after xxx My Scarlett will be with my nan, she was like a mum to me, such a wonderful woman. I miss her still now and she died to cancer when I was 15, saw her every day. She was like a mum to me and I take comfort that she will be looking after Scarlett for me until the day I join them.

Was she doing this during the funeral? Either way it's horrible. She sounds like a right piece of work xx

Miasmummy It didn't come easy, I struggled for a long time with it. Thank you, I think I could just sit and ramble on forever sometimes! School, well, that's all again tomorrow. Not looking forward to it at all. I'm looking at changing schools it's that bad xx I love your mango story, it appeals to me xx

chipmonkey Sun 22-Apr-12 23:07:06

Thanks all. What bothered me as well Cheese, was that in s way, it was it was almost as though she was insinuating that my Dad wasn't in Heaven. My Dad was lovely, I sincerely hope he's in Heaven or there's not much hope for the rest of us!

chipmonkey Mon 23-Apr-12 00:27:13

BTW folks, I have liked "Mias Wood" on FB and I suggest you all do the same in case Mias is too shy to ask!

everlong Mon 23-Apr-12 06:44:02

Did it ages ago chip wink

thank you chip and everlong!! The FB site for Mia's Wood is still an ongoing project, but glad you like it.

chip peace and love for you today.

chipmonkey Mon 23-Apr-12 11:48:28

Well, we are back from the cemetery. The bereavment counsellor arrived to the house with the little white wooden box and I read the inscription and cried. Then we all went up to the cemetery and buried the little box. It's right on top of her coffin so she's all together now. The chaplain read some lovely prayers and a lovely poem which I will post later as she is going to email it to me. It was very moving. But so strange, almost like another funeral but not quite.

everlong Mon 23-Apr-12 11:52:56

< big squeeze chip > I can imagine it feeling like another funeral. It sounds like it was very moving. I'm thinking of you chip, you are so brave.

May little Sylvie Rose rest peacefully.

fioled Mon 23-Apr-12 15:01:51

Glad today went well chip xx

Tamisara Mon 23-Apr-12 15:18:20

Chip I've been thinking about you & Sylvie-Rose all day. I know I've not been on here, but I have been thinking of you xx

chip I have been thinking of you and Sylvie-Rose today. I am guessing that today has brought up lots of feelings that you thought you had worked through. It must have been so hard to do this all over again, but I hope you felt it was helpful in some way.

It made me realise that we will have to grieve all over again when Mia's inquest date is finally set. It is six months tonight that the sunshine of our hearts, our beautiful Mia, left us. Six months without her enthusiastic cuddles, six months without her wonderful, heart-lifting smile, six months without - anything. And only more days like this in the future. Why?!?!?

Chip I've been thinking of you today. Huge hugs xx

Miasmummy 6 months sad it's no time at all. Be kind to yourself. Hugs too xxx

Hi ladies, sorry I've not been around much - lots of things going on.

Chip today must have been hard. Well done you for getting through. Will light a candle for Sylvie-Rose tonight xx

Mias hugs my lovely. I found six months a big deal, bigger than say 5 or 7 months. Not sure why, half a year maybe. Sounds like you've done a few things requiring more strength and courage recently. I'm sure you handled them with your usual grace and style but am also sure they've taken their toll on you. I hope you are taking care of yourself. How's the sickness? I will light a candle for little Mia right next to Sylvie-Rose's tonight xx

Everlong what a talented boy you have smile Be proud! How are you doing? xx

Cheese sounds like you've been busy recently. I'm sorry your family are still acting like Ella 'makes it all better'. I think someone said it up thread. It really takes another bereaved parent to 'get it' properly.

Waves to all - hope everyone is okay xx

Big family wedding yesterday - anyone friends with me on fb will have seen how stunning my cousin looked! It was a fairytale if slightly damp wedding! The ceremony was in the same church as we had Erin's funeral, it's not the first time I've been back in there but it is the first time I've actually sat in there and found it impossible to watch them say their vows knowing they were stood on the exact same spot as where Erin's casket was for her funeral service. It was also the same priest, he christened both our girls (K in that same church!) and is a wonderful man. I managed to hold it together all through the service but dp and I slipped down to light a candle for Erin after and he came and spoke to us and I did have some tears then. Saw lots of family we haven't seen either since the funeral or since before she died and hardly anyone mentioned her. Made me very sad. Yet everyone was happy to congratulate us on our good news confused

Dp's birthday tomorrow then scan on Wednesday. Eek am really scared now, but also a little excited to see him/her again and also to hopefully find out if it is a him/her!

Ups and Downs eh? Sounds like we're all having them at the moment xxx

everlong Mon 23-Apr-12 18:14:28

Hey whatever I'm good thank you smile

I saw your cousins wedding photo's on fb, it looked like a beautiful wedding and the bride was stunning. I think you were very brave going to the same church that Erin's funeral was, very brave. I can imagine how hard it was for you. ( my friends little boy was christened yesterday at the same church where Oliver is buried but I ducked out of going, just couldn't stand the thought of being back in that church, so I have a lot of respect for you )

A big week for you, I'm looking forward to hearing your news on Wednesday smile

chipmonkey Mon 23-Apr-12 19:37:15

Mias, for me, the day Sylvie-Rose should have been six months old was hard. Oddly enough, after that I didn't even really notice that six months had passed since she died. The sixteenth of every month is hard as she should have been a month older.

You will find the inquest a tough, tough day. We found the PM results day tough and I imagine an inquest will be harder still and it will rake it all back up.

It has been a gruelling day for us but nothing is ever as hard as the day they leave us.

everlong Mon 23-Apr-12 19:51:56

miasmummy sendng you and your dh a huge hug tonight, I'm thinking of you both and little Mia of course. Xxx

orion3 Mon 23-Apr-12 20:17:00

chip I hope you're okay after today.

miasmummy It's been 4 months to the day since we last had our boy as well. It really is such early days for us all isn't it? I hope it gets easier.

Tamisara Mon 23-Apr-12 20:29:55

Just to let you know I'm thinking of you all (((hugs)))

I was coming on here to say how I feel, but I fear it is so selfish of me right now xx

everlong Mon 23-Apr-12 20:37:31

tami you know we will shout at you if you don't let us know how you are!


whatever the wedding looked lovely!

orion it's 16 months for us since Scarlett died, feels like a long time but like yesterday all at once.

tami hugs, say how you feel if it'll help. xx

A big week for sure Everlong it'll also be 8 months exactly on Wednesday since Erin died. A day of mixed emotions. It was definitely hard being back in the church. Overheard one of my relatives saying 'it's a relief to be here on a happy occasion' Wish I'd not heard them say it.

What's up Tami we're here to listen xx

Tamisara Mon 23-Apr-12 21:27:23

everlong Cheese Thank you xx

I feel really guilty for this: When I first got pregnant with Tamsin, I thought I could never love another baby as much as DD1 (of course DS too, but you know another ^little one^).

I've said before how much closer I felt to Tamsin, much more so than DS or DD1. It was as though she understood how I was feeling, and responded to it. She would particularly kick vigorously when I was sad, as if to say "hey mum, cheer up". Stupid I know, but it's true. I could think something, ask her silently, and she'd respond. As if she & I were telepathically linked.

It took a while, after she died, to regain the depth of affection for DD1, or at least to allow myself to feel it.

I've noe recaptured it. But I feel guilt, real, real guilt. I feel close to DD1, so very close, but I feel as if I've let go of Tamsin, or rather, as if she's let go of me.

I feel that I'm losing her. I've not got any memories to remind me of her, just photos, 'things' she wore, etc; but nothing to remind me of her, except how she responded to me inside.

I know none of this makes sense. I play with DD1, can feel real love, then cry my eyes out (as I am now), because I feel I'm letting Tamsin go. I'm scared stiff I'm going to forget how I felt close to her... so very scared.

chipmonkey Mon 23-Apr-12 21:33:27

Tami, she knew how you felt because she was a visiting angel. Angels are very psychic, you know!

Tami, you write beautifully, write it down, write pages and pages on when Tamsin was an inside-baby and put it in her memory box. And then read it back when you need to.

You will never forget her, her heart is entwined in yours.

Tamisara Mon 23-Apr-12 21:38:47

Thank you chip <crying more now> I love the visiting angel idea, truly love, love LOVE it xx

I'm sorry for this, especially when others are facing tough times. I was thinking of you & Sylvie-Rose all day xx

I forgot - the rainbow I saw on Saturday, I put a photo on FB xx

tami you're not being selfish (hugs). I know what you mean about memories, I kept all the scan photos and as much as possible but the only tangible memories are the kicks. It's trying to hold on to those, I have very vivid memories of the kicking so I'm hoping they stay with me. She will always be a part of you though, no matter where you are xxx

Just thought I'd poke my head in and give all you ladies a well deserved hug.

I havnt been on here for a while but with Ophelias birthday this week it made me think of all of you.

'My darling Fi, my golden haired daughter with the perfect features who looked just like her daddy. We miss you every day, you are the glue that sticks us together ' we made something so perfect'
To beanbag and bungle the babies that were not meant to be, you are so loved were so full of promise. To be taken from us in such a way and so early. Life is so infair but I am happy I carried you all.
Mummy and Daddy loves all of you. My three little ones.

Tamisara Mon 23-Apr-12 23:24:27

Cheese It's horrible isn't it. I have no one in RL who understands... not really, no one wants to talk about her anymore. I can't help thinking that she is fading away, but not from me xx

fanjo Ophelia is such a beautiful name. I'm so sorry for your losses, and Happy Birthday to Ophelia (I really do love that name) xx

chipmonkey Tue 24-Apr-12 00:20:56

Oh, Tami, I saw a rainbow in the sky this morning in a place where I never usually see one. Maybe Tamsin sent it.

Tamisara Tue 24-Apr-12 08:36:42

Chip You know I was thinking the other day, for Tamsin to send you a rainbow - when I was thinking about you & Sylvie-Rose, I was silently asking her to tell you that Sylvie-Rose is OK. Sorry, that must sound barking mad... but it's true, I did want her to send you a rainbow xx

Tamisara Tue 24-Apr-12 09:13:05

OK, I feel really bad. I'm sitting here in floods of tears, wondering how I'm going to manage toddler group (how selfish am I?).

The thought of never having another child is weighing on me. I'm so very miserable. I feel not good enough. DS's dad didn't want DS when I got pregnant (though he did before), and DH always wanted a 'family' with me, then didn't want Tamsin when I conceived her. What is wrong with me? Why do other people have partners/husbands who want to have children with them, yet not me?

I'm sorry, I'm just having a really, really bad day xx

everlong Tue 24-Apr-12 09:19:14

(((tami))) there is nothing wrong with you. Sometimes the relationships we are in are wrong not us I am sorry you are so low. I wish I could help but know we are here to listen and we care about you.

Sorry in a rush just waiting to go in aerobics will post later xx

tami You are more than good enough. You are a wonderfully kind and generous person - with special powers to send rainbows and grow angels in your tummy!! Follow the advice you give so kindly to others - be gentle on yourself.

Don't lose hope in your situation, but you might need to make some hard decisions if you want your home life to be different. Change is always possible. Please, don't be afraid to say what you feel. We are always here for you. And we think you're great.

chip it's interesting what each of us count. I find the 15th of each day ok, Mia would have been another month older, but the 23/24th very difficult. It's like I can still celebrate Mia growing older on the 15th, but there is nothing good I can bring up about the other date, only terrible memories. sad

whatever happy birthday to your DP!! What a tricky day for you tomorrow, with the scan and the Erin's 8-month anniversary.

The wedding photos were lovely, but I am so angry and shock at that thoughtless comment from your relative - especially when they must have realised how challenging it was for you to be there at all.

everlong very impressed with your fitness regime - and the discipline!!

orion it is a very short time, but the memory of cuddling Mia feels like another lifetime. Hard day today for us both.

fan we will be remembering Ophelia with you on Friday. You are amazing in the way you are coping with all this.

cheese thanks for your kind words.

Off to Olympic volunteer training this afternoon, then meeting former work colleagues. Doing my crying for Mia this morning, and hopefully that will be enough to get me through the day... sounds silly when I write it down like that though.

everlong Tue 24-Apr-12 11:05:03

miasmummy you are so thoughtful in your posts, so lovely smile

It's such early days for all you ladies and I know you are all struggling with different parts of grieving but your bravery and graciousness is so humbling to me. You all are amazing.

whatever I'm so sorry you heard the relative saying what she did. People astound me sometimes how thoughtless they can be, as if going back to that church wasn't difficult enough. Wish your DP a very happy birthday from me smile

tami hope you are ok, I know you're struggling at the minute. Did you go out with DD?

lavandes hello there hope you're ok too.

Just did my aerobics class and I've got yoga tonight. I'm on a mission.

Operation flab! grin

Tamisara Tue 24-Apr-12 12:12:16

Thank you miasmummy I hope you're OK? Would be lovely to go to the bluebell wood - if the weather improves smile It's hard as tomorrow is 6 months to the day, that Tamsin died xx

everlong I did get out to toddler group. I feel a bit silly there, as no one talks a great deal to me, but DD1 absolutely loves it. Hope the aerobics goes well <feels very lazy> xx

whatever I hope DH enjoys his birthday. It's shocking about what was said at the church. It's bad enough losing a child, but dealing with DHACs is awful. You imagine the pain would be enough, it's staggering the insenstivity of others. Will be thinking of you tomorrow... such a bittersweet day xx

everlong Tue 24-Apr-12 12:30:05

Ah well done for going tami it's sometimes good to get out the house even when we really don't want to go.

chipmonkey Tue 24-Apr-12 13:25:38

Tami, first of all wrt to guys not wanting to have kids with you, trust me, it's not you, it's them! You are such a loving Mum and you should have 10 children in a fair world. Well done for getting out to the group, I know it wasn't easy.

Whatever, wow, some people are really missing the sensitivity chip, aren't they? Try not to let her get to you.

Everlong, what flab?

chipmonkey Tue 24-Apr-12 13:37:48

this is the poem the chaplain read out at the graveside yesterday:

Reflection : A Message from Sylvie-Rose

I’ll be in the breeze that rustles in the trees
When Autumn days are here.
The first Winter snowflake which falls in this place
Will just be me kissing your face.

When light gentle raindrops fall on your brow
I’ll be whispering ‘I’m with you now’
The sunshine that bathes you in its warm Summer glow
Will just be me kissing you so.

And when Spring comes around, I’ll be easily found
In the flower you hold in your hand.
So whatever the season, please don’t be sad.

So grieve awhile for me, then let your grief be comforted
by trust that we will meet again. Bless the memories within
your heart, I won’t be far away, for life goes on, and if you
need me, call and I will come. Though you cannot see me,
I’ll be near with all my love around you, soft and clear.
And then, when you must come this way alone,
I’ll greet you with a smile and I’ll welcome you home.

everlong Tue 24-Apr-12 14:04:08


That is so beautiful chip so so beautiful.

Thank you for sharing it.

chip that is so lovely, sitting here crying as well.
DD1 asked this morning to get Sterre's memory box down and have a look at her pictures.
And then it dawned on me, the scan pictures I have of Sterre, are 9 weeks and 12 weeks, and I'm 10 weeks pregnant now, this little one is as big as the last times I saw her alive on a screen... sad

Oh Chip that is the most beautiful poem. How perfect <crying too>

chipmonkey Tue 24-Apr-12 15:54:50

<<hugs>> Blue.
In Heaven, I'm sure Sterre is a big healthy smiling baby and has captured the hearts of all the other angels.

chip what a wonderful poem. Thank you for sharing it with us. <many tears>

orion3 Tue 24-Apr-12 18:13:02

chip that poem is really beautiful. Thank you so much for sharing it.x

chip that's a really beautiful poem.

One that I love is:

Do not stand at my grave and weep

Do not stand at my grave and weep
I am not there. I do not sleep.
I am a thousand winds that blow.
I am the diamond glints on snow.
I am the sunlight on ripened grain.
I am the gentle autumn rain.
When you awaken in the morning's hush
I am the swift uplifting rush
Of quiet birds in circled flight.
I am the soft stars that shine at night.
Do not stand at my grave and cry;
I am not there. I did not die.

Mary Elizabeth Frye

It was read at my nan's funeral and I've always remembered it since. It's not everyone's cup of tea but I like the wording.

blue (hugs) must be hard for you right now xx

I hope everyone is having a peaceful evening, seems a lot of us are struggling at the moment xx

Trying so hard to stay calm, sigh. I think I need to hide a thread or two. Trying to be helpful also but...

chipmonkey Tue 24-Apr-12 22:48:10

Cheese, I looked at that thread. Just hide it. You have done your best and it's only upsetting you.

Think I'll just try to avoid things from now on, having a really bad night, not sure what else to say. Thanks chip x

everlong Wed 25-Apr-12 07:01:29

cheese I'm sorry you were upset on that thread, I'm not surprised though, I feel pretty frustrated myself reading it. It's hard not to get involved when it's something so close to you, I know I've done it myself but you end up feeling upset and angry, so you did the right thing coming away.

whatever thinking of you today, looking forward to hearing your news smile

Morning to everyone else smile

Oh god I'm so scared. And I miss my little Erin so much right now. This time 8 months ago I woke up with no idea that 12 hours later my whole world would fall apart.

whatever <<massive hugs>> Erin is nestled safe in your heart. I hope the scan allays your fears today. It is so, so hard. We are here for you. xx

everlong Wed 25-Apr-12 07:49:48

Oh whatever ((((lots of love)))))

wtw thinking of you and your lovely family and praying that all will be well! your little Erin is looking after her baby brother or sister! x

Also thinking of you and Tamsin Rainbow today, tami. <<big hugs>>

chipmonkey Wed 25-Apr-12 11:11:34

Whatever, thinking of you today xx

Also thinking of little Tamsin xx

Tamisara Wed 25-Apr-12 12:41:49

Whatever I am thinking of you today, on this most bittersweet of days (((hugs))). Hoping to hear some exciting news from you later xx

Miasmummy & *chip Thanks for remembering Tamsin. It doesn't seem possible that it's now 6 months that her little heart stopped beating. I've booked into get my haircut again <very random> but it's not been cut since December, so needs it, and will hopefully cheer me up. Feel guilty though, asked for a graduate stylist, instead of the one who did it before, just to save £20, hope the other lady isn't upset by that. I'm still very low though, damned stupid life!

cheese I think I know the thread you mean. I looked at it the other day, I'm so sorry (((hugs))). I've had people argue with me on threads on reduced fetal movements. Most people reassure them, or tell them to lie down, eat chocolate, that the baby has run out of room etc. It makes me mad that so many people advise faffing around and wasting time. I'd rather panic women - better that than to have one woman, whose baby is in trouble, waste precious time - listening to people whose babies were 'fine'... grrr... xx

Tami big hugs for you my friend! It does seem like an apt day to be sad, what horrible weather out there! I think all our angels are having fun splashing in puddles though! wink

Tamisara Wed 25-Apr-12 13:16:06

Blue Thank you xx I'm sure they are having lots of fun xx

Hello smile Have had scan this morning - all looks well so far (huge sigh of relief) she was being a little monkey though and wouldn't stay still but they got everything they needed in the end. Yes that's right I said she we are having another little girl grin What a very very bittersweet day. Feeling totally all over the place.

Tami thinking of you and Tamsin today. Our little 25th babies I hope they are playing together xxx

everlong Wed 25-Apr-12 13:43:13

Ah that's so lovely to hear whatever you must feel relieved baby girl looks healthy smile well I was wrong with my blue prediction!

Have a brew and take the news in.

tami thinking of you and Tamsin today too xx

whatever oh, that's brilliant news!! You have been in my thoughts all day, wondering how the scan went. Completely understand your emotions being all over the place. I know it doesn't change the sad thoughts about Erin, but it is wonderful news in its own right.

tami sending rainbow thoughts to you on this changeable day - rain and sunshine, torrential showers and racing clouds. There is a rainbow in there somewhere, even if we can't always see it. I promise you, it's there. And that's where all our children are playing.

Feeling very heavy inside today. I was in Monsoon, looking at possible dresses for a July wedding I am going to, and all the summer clothing for little girls was on the same floor. It hit me so forcefully that I can't enjoy choosing Mia's summer outfits - and then a song with the words came on "I love you more every day" How true. A bit of a sob fest on the way home. And just spoke to our lawyer, it's been decided that a pre-inquest review is needed next month. Our lawyer thinks we need two weeks to ensure all the facts are brought out, whereas the coroner only thinks two days... I don't know what I want, longer will be harder, but I don't want to walk away knowing that there was more information that had not be properly revealed.

This was posted on my Mia thread yesterday. I think it's quite beautiful, and hope it might ease some of the pain and hurt which is with so many of us at the moment.

This song of mine will wind its music around you,
my child, like the fond arms of love.

The song of mine will touch your forehead
like a kiss of blessing.

When you are alone it will sit by your side and
whisper in your ear, when you are in the crowd
it will fence you about with aloofness.

My song will be like a pair of wings to your dreams,
it will transport your heart to the verge of the unknown.

It will be like the faithful star overhead
when dark night is over your road.

My song will sit in the pupils of your eyes,
and will carry your sight into the heart of things.

And when my voice is silenced in death,
my song will speak in your living heart.

~Rabindranath Tagore

chipmonkey Wed 25-Apr-12 19:04:08

Oh, that is beautiful, Mias. Isn't that also the lady who wrote another poem that MrsDeVere used to post? I'll see if I can find it.

Appleseed365 Wed 25-Apr-12 19:24:02

Just wanted to drop in and introduce myself to you lovely ladies.

Lost my darling beautiful Elsie at 41 weeks... It will be 10 weeks on saturday. Had the most beautiful, empowering and peaceful birth and cut her cord... Then slept with her and my husband till dawn until we said our goodbyes. Perfect in every way, just not destined for this world... She will always be in our hearts and we will always know she is part of us. The birth was her gift to me, it was incredible and though I am not a mother now I was for 9 months and felt the power of birth so many miss out on. I do feel blessed in that way. She was so cute too.

I am 40 now (goodness where did that time go?) and it's just my husband and I now again... Hope maybe to try again, not sure if we are brave enough.

Anyway what I have learnt is that no one know how long they have with their loved ones... So cherish the time you have, I never saw my baby's eyes but she was still part of us and we shared some great times together in utero.

Wishing you all here strength and lighter times... They are out there smile


Tamisara Wed 25-Apr-12 19:29:02

These poems are lovely, but I'm not in the right frame of mind to read them sad It just doesn't seem possible to be 6 months on. Today was just the beginning - Monday will be Tamsin's half-birthday. Although she was dead, she was still in me 6 months ago, and I could still feel her head under my left rib, on Monday it will mark the time she left me...

I had a friend round today (the tactless one). I didn't tell her the significance of today - she didn't ask how I felt. She did, however, tell me about the little girl her neice had, 10 weeks ago. She asked if she'd shown me the photos, then (luckily) couldn't find them. Am I awful? I couldn't have beared to have looked, if she'd tried. I found it weird that she was telling me about this baby, all excitedly, without a second's thought. The weirder thing is - I love looking at the photos of 'our' babies, little Ella's smile was gorgeous, yet my friend, who seems to think I'm 'over it' bothers me.

Something else weird. DH's brother died nearly 12 years ago. DH was very close to him. Since I was pregnant with DD1, I've continually seen a 'figure' in the hallway. I made the mistake, countless times, thinking it was DH. DH told me his ex wife used to see the figure too. It was always in the same place - where his brother used to stand. There was always an "atmosphere" in the house too, and hated being alone (or just with DD1) in the house, even though I'm sure it wasn't malevolent.

Since being pregnant with Tamsin, I've not seen the figure. I said to DH last night, that his brother had gone, and he asked "don't you feel him here anymore", so I told him, I hadn't since I was expecting Tamsin.

I'm almost certain he's with her. Mad as it sounds, I can sense it. That makes me sad. I don't know why, I'm happy she's with her uncle, who adored children. But it's like they're now both gone...

Tamisara Wed 25-Apr-12 19:31:40

Appleseed I'm so very sorry, you sound as if you have great strength and calm. I disagree with one thing you wrote - and that is, you are still a mother, you weren't for just 9 months, you were then, and you are still a mother. (((hugs))) xx

wtw very brave of you announcing your beautiful rainbow girl on FB! smile x

appleseed welcome, we are very happy to hear more about your beautiful Elsie when you are ready x

Not sure about brave blue just feel like I need to start believing all will be well and making it seem more real. Also Katie will now start telling random strangers anyway smile

Welcome Appleseed what lovely words for your little Elsie. You sound incredibly strong. I have to agree with Tami though - you are her mummy and always will be. We're all here if you want to tell us more about her.

Tami your 'friend' sounds entirely stupid and insensitive. Big hugs, not what you needed today xxx

Appleseed365 Wed 25-Apr-12 21:29:03

Goodness me ladies, overwhelmed. Thank you... From the bottom of my heart. X

wtw you are brave telling fb world. What a lovely scan photo too.

Im feeling a bit lonely tonight, thinking of what friday will mean, a year has passed without my baby. Its been such a crap year, losing two more babies and feeling like everything is going wrong all the time. Well except DH, I do have faith that we will have a child one day, but I so want it to happen now. I want to tell Ophelias siblings all about her.
I feel sad too that blizy has left us, I know her reasons and I fully understand, but it does make me feel so lonely, Im the only one left on the other thread who isnt pg, or isnt holding her rainbow baby.
Sorry maybe I shouldnt have put that, I dont want to force anyone to stay thats not what Im saying, it was just nice to know that someone was struggling with me, that sounds so selfish. Sorry girls for barging in and leaving you with negatives.

Tamisara Wed 25-Apr-12 21:39:34

Whatever I'm so, so sorry!!! blush I thought I'd commented on your news! Wow, I'm so happy for you, but yes, I imagine it must be very bittersweet - so lovely to hear though (((hugs))) xx

fanjo I am desperate for another baby, so very desperate, and we were cleared to try again after 6 months - which is now, but DH is adamant he won't, and I've got so little time. I hope it does work out for you though. Why has blizy left? Do you mean another thread? (((hugs))) to you fanjo xx

Theres a Angel babies thread in conception.

Im sorry just feel really down tonight, and everything I write seams to sound angry to my ears. I thought I would post here as it didnt seam right on the angel thread.

chipmonkey Wed 25-Apr-12 21:57:32

Appleseed, I am so, so sorry that you are here on our thread. I love the name Elsie. And as Tami says, you are still a mother. I know it sucks being a mother when you can't hold your baby but Elsie will always be a part of you.

fanjo, I'm sorry you feel so alone. FWIW, I am gutted that I physically can't have another baby. Not that I would want to replace the irreplaceable, Sylvie-Rose was unique, but just to have another little baby of my own.......

chipmonkey Wed 25-Apr-12 22:32:08

Tami, meant to say, that is so strange about Tamsin's uncle!
I think that time in the afterlife is not like time here. Maybe he knew he had to be around to meet Tamsin when she came and he thought he was there for only moments but had been there for years in our time? And she hasn't left you, she's with you more than anyone else!

Tamisara Wed 25-Apr-12 23:41:31

fanjo (((hugs))) I'm so sorry you're down, please don't worry about venting on here, we all do it, we all have our crap times xx

chip It is very, very weird. I never met BIL, but DH finally told me about him, and laughed when he remembered. Apparently BIL kept a house like I do blush. His idea of filing letters, was to put them on the stairs, and I used to (which is what DH meant, you came into my house, and there were letters on the stairs). He also used to hoard everything (as I do). DS hinted on FB about me (though DH won't let me be untidy here, and everything of mine is in the outhouse anyway).

It's strange to think that Tamsin is with her uncle, who never knew me. Having said that he sounds great. He used to go out with a younger single mum, and babysat her DD, whist she partied. When they finished, he was given custody of her by the mum (who didn't want her), so he was bringing up a little girl who wasn't his. He had a couple of girls when he married. It seems fitting really. It does make me happier - weird as that sounds.

tami your BiL sounds lovely, and the right sort of person to be looking after Tamsin for you.

I received this text from a lovely friend last night, who lives nearby, and thought of you and Tamsin - "my DD and I have just driven home in the view of a beautiful rainbow. I told DD that rainbows are made from the love of our special friends and family no longer on earth. When I mentioned Mia, DD pointed up and waved hello, I hope Mia was watching." I'm sure she was watching.

I hope you saw the rainbow too. And I love that beautiful image of rainbows being made of love. Your Tamsin certainly is.

Appleseed you will always be Elsie's mummy. I am so sorry you find yourself here. I read your other thread and think you do sound amazing in the way you are dealing with your grief - but please feel you can write in your low moments too.

fan I can understand why you are finding the other thread so challenging, and feel very conscious that if life were fair, none of us would be on this thread or the other. Your mental attitude is so positive, and the strength of your relationship with your DH are beacons of light and hope, and I hope so much you get your wishes very soon. x

tami your sorry about your brother in law made me remember a story from one of my old work collegues, he and his wife tried so hard to have a babyan she fell pregnant 7 times but always lost them before 12 weeks, and every time she know she was going to lose them because she saw the shadow of her MIL on the stair. She would see the shadow and know that her baby was gone.

I can't even imagine how heartbreaking that must have been for them. In the end they stopped trying, they are such a lovely couple aswell.

sulee69 Thu 26-Apr-12 09:30:19

fan it should have been my Angels 11th birthday yesterday.

Every year we have bought something for the garden for her a bench with a plaque on, a rose that is called Nicole like my Angel, an apple tree that comes into blossom at this time of year ready for her birthday.

It doesnt make it any easier tears are streaming down my face as i write this but i go to them in the garden and care for them and its like a part of her is there.

Fan you are amazingly brave and strong. You have been such a support to me and to all the other ladies on the other thread. It can't have been easy for you. But please remember we are all here for you too, you've been through the worst time and you are definitely entitled to a good moan. I will be thinking of you, dh and Ophelia tomorrow xxx

Tami I've seen so many glorious rainbows recently and always look at them with a smile for your precious girl.

Mias how are you feeling my lovely? Have you got a scan date yet?

<<Waves madly to everyone>>

Feeling very tired and drained today - wish I could have some time off work!

sulee Remembering your daughter, Nicole. Love endures forever, the most powerful force there is.

We have a Mamma Mia rose and a beautiful red oak in our garden. Like you, I go and chat to them.

whatever just spoken to the community midwife, who will come around on Saturday to discuss things. We have booked a private scan next Tuesday. Very nervous, and quite tearful... and despite me asking the family not to ask how I am, my DM wanted to know today if they should change their Christmas flights to come earlier?!? Argh. I just said that December was too far away to make any plans, but it upset me. I know she wants this to work, just as I do, but making plans now really won't influence things in the slightest, as much as she would like it to.

Tamisara Thu 26-Apr-12 13:16:58

fanjo Your poor work colleagues sad I have to say, I never thought that BIL was a malevolent presence, just eerie. It was so weird that he went, when I was pregnant with Tamsin, as if he'd been waiting for her. It does comfort me, in a way, she is being looked after - that is all I can hope for. Hope you're feeling a bit better fanjo, it's so bloody awful. (((HUGS))) Thinking of you & Ophelia xx

Whatever Thank you. Hope you're OK? I'm so excited for you xx

Miasmummy sad It's hard when our parents do/say inappropriate things. I suppose, in their way, they're just trying to help, but it doesn't. They have no idea how to support us, having never gone through it themselves, and unlike most things, this time our mums really can't kiss it better xx

Sulee Sorry to hear about Nicole - thinking of you xx

thank you ladies, you have made me feel so much better.
I am abit annoyed with my FIL today he texted my DH earlier to ask if he could help put up a fence panel in the garden tomorrow! I cant beleive it, doesnt he know the date, Ophelia was his first grandchild, shouldnt that date be imprinted on his soul forever!
He is so lucky that DH is a nice guy and didnt have a go at him, or maybe I should say hes lucky he didnt ring because I would have told him, to go fuck himself! just makes me so angry. Sorry for the swearing.

sulee thinking of you and Nicole, thats such a lovely thing to do, I bet it gives you some comfort.

Tamisara Thu 26-Apr-12 17:26:45

fanjo I think it's perfectly normal to feel so angry & of course he should know the date, and feel it's importance. Some people really don't get it do they? So sorry (((hugs))) xx

Nearly six hours away from a year of heart ache.
My beautiful golden child was born asleep, but has never left me, she is in the wind making the world beautiful.
I love you Ophelia Bessie Anne.

Went to Lichfield Cathedral today on a school trip and lit a candle for all our precious Angel children! x

orion3 Thu 26-Apr-12 22:44:25

Thinking of you fan

chipmonkey Thu 26-Apr-12 23:38:15

Thanks, Blue.
Really crappy day, meeting in school re ds1 didn't go well.sad

Charleymouse Fri 27-Apr-12 07:36:09

MrsDV thinking of you and Billie and your family today. I hope this rain brings you rainbows. Much love CM xxx

dear MrsDevere may the clouds and rains of today wash away your pain, leaving you with the rainbow of love and joy created by your beautiful Billie. x

fan Remembering Ophelia Bessie Anne, the golden-haired girl, beloved.

blue thank you for doing that.

chip what happened with DS1? I remember you said that he wasn't going to be able to do the 'gap year' he wanted, and you were disappointed for him, is it that?

MrsDevere thinking of your beautiful smiling Billie today! big hugs

Fan also for you and your precious Ophelia! x

Mrsdevere thinking of you today and your family. xxx

Had to avoid for a couple days as I was getting too involved in that other thread but I've taken a deep breath and staying well away.

everlong it was hard to stay away hence why I didn't come on for a couple of days. I just can't bear to see it

Tami it's so hard isn't it. Yes "most" babies will be fine but that doesn't mean all will and why take the risk when you don't need to. It's upsetting and infuriating all at once. 6 months (hugs), it's a difficult time, I remember the 6 months. The signigficant dates bring things back a lot I find.

Whatever that's fantastic news! Sticking with the tradition of having the same sex as the one we lost smile So pleased that all was well with her. I announced on fb at about 18 weeks I think it was, it felt right at that point. x

Miasmummy (hugs) it's so hard sad

Appleseed welcome to the thread, so sorry to hear about your lovely Elsie. SUch early days for you. These wonderful women here have been such a massive support to me since my daughter Scarlett was stillborn at 37 weeks in December 2010. I hope you find some comfort here too xx

fanjo Blizy left? I'll go and read the other thread and catch up after this. Sorry you're feeling so down, I feel sure that you will have your rainbow baby xx

Thinking of you and Billie today MrsDV

Am on my way back from a work conference. I saw lots of colleagues from other areas that I haven't seen since I was pregnant with Erin. A selection of the comments said to me today:

'You're looking really well. Totally back to normal'
'Glad to hear you got straight back on the horse. Best way to get over things'
'Glad to see you're all better now'
'I was sorry to hear about that horrid business last year'
'Good to see you're getting on with things and putting last year behind you'

I don't know whether to be shock sad angry or confused

whatever I would definitely be angry at such stupid comments!!

wtw what horrid comments! Can only come from DHAC's! big hugs x

chipmonkey Fri 27-Apr-12 16:36:17

Whatever angry for you at those people. Really and truly DHACs

Mias, school don't want ds1 to do the Irish equivalent of A levels. They want him to do a version of it that will really limit him. He does have SEN's but we feel he is capable of good results and should be given a chance. At the end of the day, it's our choice but I feel well and truly bullied.sad

thank you ladies

wtw what horrible comments. I hope you are ok.

Just about to light our lanterns for our three babies. Ophelia, Beanbag and Bungle.

fan was just about to type, put a pic on FB, when I saw the picture grin so lovely! hugs to you my lovely x

Gorgeous lanterns for your lovely babies Fan xxx

I don't think anyone meant to be horrible it just really highlighted to me how little people understand what has happened. I think it really scares them.

chipmonkey Fri 27-Apr-12 23:02:16

Whatever, they may not mean to be horrible but wouldn't it be nice if people would just think before they speak? After all, they've had months to think about it, it's not like she died yesterday. And referring to Erin as "that business", it beggars belief that anyone thinks that's an OK thing to say to a bereaved Mum. Like the person who called Sylvie-Rose a "mishap" as if I'd spilt my drink or something.

whatever you have a very generous spirit, that's all I can say.

Big day - we have relived the best and worst days of our life. This morning, distant relatives visited, and we found ourselves recounting all the medical facts. This afternoon, we had our first midwife visit, and of course, had to go through the facts of her birth. Poor DH. I think he found it all even harder than I did. Afternoon in front of the fire (April???), cuddled up watching tv.

chipmonkey Sat 28-Apr-12 22:59:11

Mias, a colleague of mine lost her first child shortly after he was born. ( God, when I I think of it, I hope I said all the right things, I really had no idea of how bad it was) On her second child, she changed hospitals as the first hospital kept losing her notes and she kept having to recount the story of how she lost E, over and over. She found it so upsetting and draining.

Very quiet on here - hope no-ones been swept away with the storms confused

How is everyone? Dp is introducing K to the delights of Star Wars this afternoon hmm

Evening. Had a busy day, went out shopping and the traffic was awful! It took hours but needed to be done. I'm starving all the time lately, eating constantly! Dh says I'm like the very hungry caterpillar hehe, I think Ella is the same grin

Weather had been terrible, windy and raining but it seems to have settled a bit for now. Managed to get some ironing done too, surprised myself there.

How is everyone?

Tamisara Sun 29-Apr-12 19:31:46

I did write a long reply - then Mumsnet went off when I posted!

Whatever How are you feeling? The weather here has been awful - but suddenly sunny now. Hope K enjoys Star Wars xx

It'll be exactly 6 months, in the early hours of tomorrow, that Tamsin was born. on 5th May it will be 6 months since I last saw & held her (date I'm probably dreading the most), then 15th May will be 6 months since her funeral. Bloody hell sad

Horrible weather here too, horizontal rain and freezing winds - and DH had to compete in a marathon, doing a 10K leg in a team with his workmates. Very proud of him. Very wet too!!

Forgot to say yesterday that the midwife was lovely. She was fully briefed about Mia, and yet she listened to us talk about the difficulties of her birth, how we are coping without her, as well as our new fears.

tami i hope tomorrow and the next few days pass easily for you. Are you going to do anything special, or just try and have some quiet time to think of Tamsin? I thought Chip's suggestion of writing to her sounded lovely. However, I hope you will be on here to share if you need to be.

whatever Star Wars is an essential part of childhood, hope Katie enjoys it. Han Solo is still completely gorgeous in my eyes. Wow, that dates me...

chip sorry to hear that you are feeling bullied by DS1's school about his choices. What does he want to do, or doesn't he really know? I didn't - it is so difficult to see how choices at that age can matter later on.

Tamisara Sun 29-Apr-12 21:06:50

miasmummy I am trying to do a blog just for Tamsin, instead of writing on mine. Glad the midwife went well, can imagine just how taxing it was though. Well done to your DH smile Funny you mentioned Han Solo - when I first saw Star Wars, I fancied Luke (even though I was only 7). Then at 12 I had a huge crush on Han smile xx

Tamisara Sun 29-Apr-12 21:07:15

Is it me, or is Mumsnet playing up?

chipmonkey Sun 29-Apr-12 21:39:50

No, it's just you, Tami. It's fine for everyone else!wink

lavandes Sun 29-Apr-12 21:44:31

Two years ago yesterday we said goodbye to our beloved Richard. He was a devoted Dad, a beloved son and a loving brother, also a good friend to many. He will never be forgotten and is missed beyond words. Sleep well my darling son xxx

Tamisara Sun 29-Apr-12 22:02:17

chip Yep I'm here breaking it smile

lavandes (((hugs))) it's a really crappy time. Thinking of you & Richard, and his family xx

chipmonkey Sun 29-Apr-12 22:07:31


lavandes Sun 29-Apr-12 22:23:17

Thanks but I am still thinking we should not have to think about a funeral for our children. I just keep thinking of my dear grandson sitting next to me he was only nine, I was holding him, with huge tears rolling down his face and he made no sound, he is such a brave boy, so clever and funny, he is a credit to his dad, and such a comfort to us.

lavandes <hugs> to you, remembering Richard, and all the love he brought into this world.

<<<Lavandes>>> your dgs sounds an amazing little boy but you're right neither you nor he should have had to be there xxx

Tamisara Mon 30-Apr-12 09:50:12

Happy Half-Birthday Tamsin - these last 6 months, have - without a doubt - been the worst of my life. Not a day, hour, minute or second goes by, when I don't miss you. Love you forever xx

Little Tamsin Rainbow, your mummy has a heart filled with love for you. Please keep sending her your wonderful rainbows, they mean so much to her. x

everlong Mon 30-Apr-12 12:44:21

lavandes your poor grandson sad so so sad. You're right it's something we will never get, burying our children. So shocking. I still jump sometimes out of my skin when I think of what's happened. It's weird how we are able to carry on isn't it? I think we are all amazing.

Remembering little Tamsin today also, hugs for you tami

lavandes Mon 30-Apr-12 13:25:46

It was so sad, and so horrific for us. But gs is fine, he is a happy boy and doing well at school. To be honest we worry more about his brother who Richard 'took on' and was a dad to him even when he split from their mother, although they remained close friends, his father does not bother with him at all so he has lost two dads.We treat them equallly. We like to think we are a constant part of their lives and they know we are always here for them. I have been reliving all of it. I would never have thought that I would have been able to carry on but we seem to get strength from somewhere. I think we are all amazing, and extremely good actresses.

Tamisara Mon 30-Apr-12 13:35:54

lavandes Oscar winning actresses! (((hugs)))

Been up to the cemetery. Not where I should have been - really I should be giving Tamsin her first taste of solids.

Met another mum, whose baby is in the grave next to Tamsin's. I noticed she had extremely short hair, and she told me that she was in remission from cancer. Her little one was the only shot of motherhood she can have - the cancer put paid to her trying again. An amazing woman, amazing strength. She really humbled me. Life is so bloody unfair.

Came home to find a piece of paper I'd written Tamsin's poem on for her funeral, just lying in the hall. It'd been upstairs since then, but was just lying there, as if posted through the door.

I then spoke to my mum, who had to go to my nephew's school, with Dsis, for a meeting with the social worker. My mum then proceeded to tell me how Dsis had said how she was a much parent that I was with DS, how unfair it was that DS didn't need social services with him... blah blah. Funnily enough DS was fine until his dad attacked us, but Dsis can't see that. I'm sorry but I have no sympathy for her.

thinking of you and Tamsin today Tami there might be a chance of a rainbow who knows wink

lavandes hugs for you too!

Tami thinking of you and Tamsin today xx

lavandes (hugs) x

Happy half birthday little Tamsin Rainbow. Thinking of you today Tami xxx

Appleseed365 Mon 30-Apr-12 21:19:19

Dear mumsnet mums who have lost their wee ones...

Phew, what a week... Feeling stronger one day then the next just dashed on the rocks again... For those not in the know, lost our darling daughter mid feb full term, looks like midwife could have picked it up (not going there as I need to move on for now...) I have a positive question or 2 and was hoping for some advice.

First one is really about me trying again.

One day I feel strong as an ox, I (we) want another baby and to go for it and really feel brave, the next day the thought of feeling pregnant again fills me with utter dread. I am 40 now and as I get older my chances start to stack against me... So how soon is now? (To use that wonderful smiths song...) I think in a few months I will feel stronger so was thinking of waiting till perhaps September, then it will be 7 months since I gave birth. Time for my body to heal, brain to feel more balanced and positive. Is this too late? The consultant said we "shouldn't hang about" but that's a bit subjective isn't it. Today I could never ever imagine it... I only want my daughter to be alive. I don't want another baby, only her. That's today though, tomorrow I know I will feel different again.

I got pregnant really rather fast last time - 2 weeks after the laparoscopy operation that was preventing me conceiving before, I am fit and healthy but don't want to miss my window so to speak. I still have to get pregnant, run the gauntlet of miscarriage and go full term mentally knowing I lost wee Elsie at 40 weeks. Tough test ahead I reckon.

So advice on this would be appreciated.

Second one is more on friends... And how to get me integrated back to a 'normal' life. Blimey, this is a long message shock

I have a friend who was due the day I was, she now has a bouncy beautiful wee girl, I haven't seen them yet, but via the powers of Facebook have dipped in and stalked her seen her new baby antics. sad I would like to see her (the mum) but am scared it will be just way to savage for me. Problem is I miss her, but her life is all now going to be about babies, I am all about getting my fitness back and making plans to travel with my husband for a bit. If I meet her and it's a disaster it might set me back a lot, or do I just have to man up and be brave? I know I am walking a tight rope at present.

I guess I need to just do things on my time scale but it's so darn hard to know what that flipping time scale is. For trying again and for breathing life into friends I haven't seen for months. I just want to run away some days, with a fine bottle of wine and a good book...

Crickey, sorry for such a long missive, and if you have actually read this far I do actually love you. Any helpful tips out there would be great.

Miss my darling wee girl every hour that ticks by, sometimes looking back at what has happened its hard to actually believe I can still breath at all.

Take care lovely ladies.


chipmonkey Mon 30-Apr-12 22:01:12

Appleseed, fertility varies hugely but I conceived and gave birth to Sylvie-Rose when I was 42. She was perfect in every way, just born far too soon, which predisposed her to SIDS.

My SIL and I were both due our little girls the same week. She has her little girl and I don't have mine any moresad But DN will be in our lives for ever so shortly after she was born I bit the bullet and went to see her. A is nothing like Sylvie-Rose in looks, thank goodness, as I think that could have floored me but I have held her several times. And there are times when I am sick with envy of SIL but I know that is unreasonable and manage to reign it in ( mostly!wink)

orion3 Mon 30-Apr-12 22:05:48

Hi Appleseed
I'm sorry that you found yourself here after the loss of Elsie. I lost my 5 year old son very suddenly before Christmas and I started to try for a baby almost immediately. I'm now 16 weeks and although I'm a bit of a wreck I'm glad that I didn't overthink the decision or I might've chickened out.
It's not easy being pregnant at the same time as grieving and I'm in no way over the loss of my amazing boy but I hope it will all be worth it and it gives us something positive to focus on some of the time. I know that everyone is different though and you need to make your own choices. There is a thread on Conception called "mums of angels....". The people there are either trying, pregnant or have had a baby after such a terrible loss and it might help you to think things over. As for meeting your friend I would advise you to be gentle on hourly and don't force yourself into situations that will be difficult. I'm sure that your friend will understand and she will still be there when you feel stronger.

Hi Appleseed i think feeling like you want to be pregnant again is entirely natural but also a hard decision to have to make. For us, we were lucky I think as I found out I was pg again in January and it was unexpected. We had been using protection as although we wanted to try again the fear was overwhelming so I'm glad we never had to make the decision. I'm now 22 weeks and im not going to lie I'm finding it bloody tough. Harder as the weeks go on as the fear seems to be building as does feelings of guilt towards Erin as the new baby takes up so much headspace. But i know (hope!) it will all be worth it in the end. It's a very personal choice but it is not uncommon at all to have 2 babies within a year or a little over after you have lost one. Physically I feel okay with it, perhaps a little tireder but some of that will be grief for Erin not just the pregnancy.

As for seeing other babies - I took the plunge after about 7/8 weeks and saw a friends little girl who was born about 2 weeks after Erin. Strangely the thought of it was harder than doing it as I found once I held the baby I didn't feel any differently towards her than I had previously about friends babies. Take your time though don't rush yourself. Remember it is okay not to be really strong all the time xxxx

Hello appleseed, just thought I'd share my thoughts too. We lost our beautiful red-headed 13-month-old Mia last October, totally unexpectedly. Like others here, we immediately wanted to try for another child. We had always said that we wanted a second child, but SWI suddenly took on a lot more importance. That's not to say it isn't hard emotionally - it is. I had Mia when I was 40, and this year I turned 42, so I knew that we had to consider the (very expensive) possibility of IVF. I was doing all the OPK tests, temping, exercising, making DH exercise, etc as is recommended on the 40+ conception thread, to hopefully make things easier. I also had some blood tests, which actually were a little discouraging, tbh, and so, after quite a few months, we chose an IVF clinic to try and pursue our dream... but then last month, I discovered I was pg. I had a little scan today, and we saw the little baby, right on target with growth charts - and most wonderfully of all, heard a heartbeat. I burst into tears. I couldn't share this yesterday, as I have been so worried about it, but today, I can. (and I will worry again tomorrow) And as orion and whatever can attest, being pg after losing a child is full of conflicting emotions. Anyway, I wanted to say - don't give up hope because of your age.

We also chose deliberately to tell our NCT friends not to hide away their children from us. They are not Mia, and through them, her little friends, we can imagine what Mia might be doing. Sometimes it makes me sad, but for us, it was the right decision. It is totally personal - and understandably challenging. I still find going through the local shopping centre difficult, when I see all the mothers and their strollers. (although of course, none are ever as beautiful as Mia!!)

everlong Tue 01-May-12 14:03:53

Oh wow a little heartbeat heard already miasmummy that is such lovely news smile

Appleseed I wrote you a long post last night then mn went off. Grrr.

Anyway I just wanted to say how sorry I was about Elsie you write so lovingly about her, you sound so strong but I know how hard this must be for you. Good advice from all the other ladies on here but just wanted to say hello xx

chipmonkey Tue 01-May-12 14:33:09

Miasgrin I am so happy you heard the heartbeat!

Mias waw that must have been amazing! (slightly jealous though... 2 more days till my 12 week scan)

Aw Miasmummy that's amazing smile Such brilliant news my friend, so pleased for you and DH a special moment.

I saw the consultant this morning and she has set me up with 2 weekly scans starting at 25 weeks. Was surprised but very pleased - thought they'd be monthly until 30+ but I'm definitely not arguing. Got to hear the heartbeat as well today - even though I now feel her wriggling away it is the best sound ever. Of course regular movements come with fresh worries - this baby will be sick of me poking her!! I have to keep telling myself quiet periods are normal

orion3 Tue 01-May-12 15:32:31

miasmummy congratulations on the scan that's lovely news. I'm so happy that all was well.http://www.mumsnet.com/te/1.gif

orion3 Tue 01-May-12 15:33:02

Oops I meant that to be a smiley!

Tamisara Tue 01-May-12 18:34:52

Miasmummy how absolutely exciting - I'm thrilled for you, nearly in tears myself. So happy smile xx

I've discovered today that I probably am quite evil. It's that time of the month again (should have guessed from the migraine at the weekend). Woke up today with tummy ache, feeling sick, and the worst headache (if I move my head I go really dizzy). So DD1 didn't get to her toddler group. The idea of several noisy toddlers, and dancing, just wasn't feasible in my condition (bad enough contending with DD1). So DH accused me of sitting on my 'fat arse', telling DD1 how sad he was that she missed out. I do now feel guilty, really, really guilty sad

Oh Tami tell him to f off. If he was that bothered he could have taken her himself. It won't have done her any harm at all not going, try not to give it another thought.

everlong Tue 01-May-12 18:43:23

I'm sorry you're feeling rough tami try not to take what your H said to heart ( easy to say I know ) I don't blame you for not going tbh they can be very noisy places, hope you feel better soon xx

everlong Tue 01-May-12 18:45:28

I'm laughing here at whatevers succinct words. Much what I was thinking but thought I'd restrain myself.

Thank you everyone for your nice words today. As I walked out of the scan place, I said a little thank you to Mia, for helping keep her little sibling safe, and helping her daddy and I on the path to the parenthood experience again. Such a wonderful gift from her. I do miss her funny little ways so much. I miss making her dinner. I miss her wonderful cuddles. <tears>

tami agree with whatever's succinct assessment!! (and *everlong's giggles too.) Missing out on a toddler group once is not a big deal. Nor is twice. Life happens sometimes. And if it was so important to your H, well, he can always take her. A migraine and its after-effects are serious inhibiting to any sort of normal life when they hits, let alone a toddler group!

whatever great news about all the regular scans planned for you. That must be very comforting. The whooshy sound of the heartbeat is just wonderful.

chipmonkey Tue 01-May-12 20:15:40

tami, I never went to toddler group. As a result, I am socially inept and and a total outcast, I failed at school, have been fired from every job and most evenings I sit in staring at a blank wall. NOT!!!!
Your H is an arse, have I ever told you?wink

tami we didn't go to stay and play group either this afternoon. DD1 wasn't feeling too great, which I noticed from her asking to watch Toy Story 3, she always watches Toy Story films when she is ill. So we cuddled up on the sofa and watched Toy Story 3 and Toy Story 2. After that she went upstairs herself and slept in our bed. Poor little thing didn't want to eat either...
Your DD won't have missed out anything! She probably doesn't even realise she could have gone... I echo what the others said, your husband could have taken her.

I need to pull myself together and tidy up the house, my parents are visiting from Thursday to Sunday... Just don't have the energy to do anything. Ah well I work better under pressure anyway... will probably tidy up tomorrow and Thursday morning after my hospital appointment! smile

DD1 was lying on my tummy earlier and listening to 'the babies' (she still keeps saying it's twins) and saying she was listening to their hearts to hear if they weren't broken like Sterre's. She said they sounded fine! smile

Tamisara Tue 01-May-12 21:56:17

Thanks all! DD1 is so sociable (compared to DS who was/is more self-contained) that I feel bad for not letting her socialise constantly (not helped by Dsis's comments yesterday).

Miasmummy Mia is looking out for you, and her new sibling. I guess it's very bittersweet though xx

Whatever your comments gave me a good laugh smile xx

everlong I hope I feel better soon. Last friday I had my haircut - by a completely inept 'stylist', and the manageress had to recut it, to make it look half-decent (it is now way too short), not a great few days xx

chip According to my Dsis you should be all the things you joked about wink xx

Blue I hope DD1 feels better soon. What she said about Sterre just made me say "aww" out loud, how lovely, but heartbreaking xx

Just a poem, which says exactly what I feel;
I'be sat and I've read what I have write,
Reading poems that I've come to know,
Wondered what, for all of my pain, I have to show,
I've given my all, my love and my trust,
Somehow along the way, it just wasn't enough,
I know I must, but how do I say,
Farewell to my babies, i'll miss you everyday?,
My heart cannot just mend,
Like everyone thinks, so no I cannot just pretend,
The pain and the anger and suffering inside,
Is all gone, its not a dirty secret I have to hide,
But when night time falls and I'm all alone,
That's when one day I know, I too, will be called home.

MLM that is just lovely. But I hope you don't think that what you did was never enough for your babies. You were just extremely, extremely unlucky. We all are. You will always love them, and carry them in your heart for the rest of your life.

I done all that I could to help then thrive. Something went wrong. I will always love them, I won't forget, cos a mothers love does not forget.

blue Ella sounds like a little angel, what a sweet heart to say that. Bless her.

tami if my DH had said that to me, I would have gone to town on his arse! lol there was a thing on facebook the other day, a joke that kind of went a little bit like this.

a man comes home from work to find the wifes car on the driveway with the door open, the kids are in the back garden playing still in their pjs, food and cartoons of drink and food are everywhere. The kitchen is a mess pots and pans every where, cupboards open, fridge open, cat being sick on the oven dog poo on the floor. The tv is on in the living room, the phone is ringing. The toilet is full and the taps are running. He steps into the bedroom and his wife is still in bed reading a book, he looks at her in disbelief. And asks her 'what have you been doing today?' She says oh today I decided to do nothing! You see I was fed up with you asking what I have done today everytime you come in from work, and you making out I do nothing at all, so I decided to actually do nothing!

Well it went something like that.

I miss my little girl today, seeing some pics of her NCT friends all turning one, also my nephew giggling has brought it a bit home today, I wonder what Fi would have been like. DH and I were asking this today, would she have been a little firecracker, or would she have been a bit shy? I guess we shall never know.

chipmonkey Thu 03-May-12 01:10:23

Fanjo, it is so hard. I am still in the FB group for MN 2011 babies. I want to be in it as I have made good friends there and I want to see how Sylvie-Rose's buddies are doing but it hurts that I can't put up pictures of her in her bumbo. I don't even know if she would have had one or whether she would have been able to sit in it. And I so would have loved to see her smile.

Glad it's first thing Blue look forward to hearing that you've seen your wriggly one xx

Ladies, I think your kind words would be welcome here

blueberryboybait thank you I have just posted on the thread, such a sad sad story.

chip to see our girls smile would be......well I dont have words.

(I wanted to ask hows the mumsnet blanket? I crocheted a few of the squares on it, I hope it gives you comfort)

MrsY Thu 03-May-12 10:34:30

Hi. Sadly I need to ask if I can join you ladies.

I just posted a thread about our son, Benedict. We have a three year old daughter. The other day, my husband was talking to my mum and said he was off to see Peanut (that was Benedict's bump name and also his mn smile). She said 'but he can't see Peanut, Peanut's gone. Then a while later she asked my mum is she could see Peanut. We want to always be honest, and to talk about her brother as much as possible. We had planed to take her up to the grave at some point, but not so soon - won't seeing a big mound of earth and being told her brother is under is totally freak her out? It freaks me out to think of it.

I am so sorry for your loss. I had 2 mmc's and these ladies have been my strength through it all.

Tamisara Thu 03-May-12 11:57:03

MrsY I am so very, very sorry. I lost Tamsin, at 37 weeks 6 months ago. I can't say it has got a lot easier. My DD1 is 2 at the end of next month. We take her to see her sister all the time (obviously she is younger than your DD). To her it's just a way of life now. I'm so very sorry that you've had to join us here, but you're very welcome. Benedict is a lovely name xx

fanjo smile thanks xx

Another crisis today (sorry I feel so bloody selfish & self-indulgent doing this, but I have no one else to turn to).

Having lost Tamsin, I'm now sure that DD1 is going to be taken away - and it's my own stupid fault. I took her to the Dr, and was addressing concerns. Now she thinks that I'm incompetent, and they are going to take her away. My mum will be so angry at me for opening my mouth, as will DH, but I worry so much about her, now the Dr thinks I've hurt her. If she goes I honestly don't know if life is worth living anymore. I'm sorry but I'm so bloody scared, and can't believe how stupid I've been, all because I'm worried.

tami honestly they don't take kids away from their parents. It really is a last resort, they will understand your concerns and social services if they get involved will only put in support for you. I suffered from such bad post natal depression that I wanted me and my baby dead. That was all they done for me, plenty of visits from the health visitor too. Honestly if you bottled it you would have just gotten ill.

Tamisara Thu 03-May-12 12:29:20

Thanks MLM but I don't want any support from social services, I will refuse it & DD1 will be taken away, maybe it will be for the best. I don't have PND, and I never told her how I was feeling either, it was other things, which I don't know how to cope with

Tamisara Thu 03-May-12 12:31:03

MLM I forgot to say - your poem was very moving, very sad xx

MrsY Thu 03-May-12 12:31:04

Thanks for the welcome tami. My my mum works for Social Services and I can agree with MLM, they don't just take kids away frm their parents, especially if you have a suport network around you and your husband is there. Keep being honest, if you haven't hurt her then they can't say you have, they need evidence of these things. The fact you were worried just shows how much you care about her wellbeing.

Is there someone else you can talk to about your concerns?

Hope you get some reassurance soon. Hugs. If you want to PM me with any questions you have I can ask my mum and get back to you?

Tamisara Thu 03-May-12 12:36:18

Thanks, I went as she has ezcema on her face. Whist there I mentioned that she has bruises on her legs, and arms (she hasn't any on her arms at the moment). I was worried she may have something wrong with her. The GP asked why she had them (they're tiny little ones) and I said that she is active, and also sleeps funny in her cot, and her legs and arms get caught.

DD1 (who had been happily running around the waiting room) became very quiet in the Drs. She didn't smile or talk (she used to scream in the doctor's room before), and the Dr asked if she could speak, and if she ever smiled. Then said she wants the HV to check she's OK.

Stupid thing is everyone comments on how happy she always is, and how confident she is, but all the Dr saw was a scared, quiet little girl, who hid behind me. She hates the Dr pulling her around, injecting her etc, and this is the only time she is quiet.

I'm scared the GP thinks that DD1 is unhappy, and that I bruise her. I'm so scared xx

They really won't. And your worries will be understood. Often they will cone round, have a chat and there will be nothing more. You are a brilliant mum.

Tamisara Thu 03-May-12 12:45:25

MLM Thanks (((hugs))) I reported my earlier post, as it came out all wrong, I'm so het up at the moment, this week has been the worst since Tamsin died, and I'm just so over-emotional right now xx

We all get like that. Some nights I just really need a hug. And the best person to give them in my life works insane hours.

I myself am still learning to live with it, and it will be 4 years come august since I lost my 2nd baby. Time and love heal somethings, my babies though I don't want to heal from, I like hurting cos it makes them real and it means they aren't forgotten. I will always love and miss them.

tami hugs to you what a time you are having. I'm sure the HV will ask more questions and maybe able to help if you think you have depression I'm guessing you do as I havnt read the rest of the thread. Try not to worry, you were just concerned and the HV will see that.

MrsY welcome to the thread and so sorry you find yourself here.
My daughter Ophelia was stillborn last April, we didn't know she had died till I was in labour. I don't think it ever gets easier it just gets easier to carry the grief. We have a beautiful memory box for her full of things from her birthday and also her funeral. We don't have any other children, but I do have a young brother in law he's nine but unfortunatly he will not speak about Fi. I think that upsets my DH. DH and I talk about Fi all the time, it helps us get through the dark times but also helps us day to day.

fenellamae Thu 03-May-12 14:35:49

Appleseed I too lost my first at 41 weeks, and yes it could have been picked up by the midwife but we didn't go there either - after all no-one would deliberately have made us lose our babies would they sad . We had the same dilemma as you but just took the plunge and had our second baby a year and 3 days later (three weeks early and by planned ceasarian). The pregnancy was scary, as were my subsequent ones. I now have 3 (4) lovely children.

I think there is no right time - I was numb all the way through the second pregnancy, hated going to clinics and the overwhelming sense when my daughter was born was relief. An aquaintance came up to me not long after our daughter was born and said that she was so glad I'd had the courage to go on and have another baby - she had not had that courage and always regretted it (I'd always assumed she didn't want children blush ).

And the anniversaries get slightly easier with the passing of time - what kills me is the milestones - should have been starting school, moving on to secondary school...It's been twelve years and a month, but it could have been yesterday.

everlong Thu 03-May-12 16:31:59

WARNING - shallow and vain alert! grin

You know how I've been dieting starving and hitting the gym so I can get in my gorgeous new size 10 bikini?

The day is here! Yay. It's so hard when you are old like me!

Brag over wink

Tamisara Thu 03-May-12 16:48:59

everlong envy Well done! xx

everlong Thu 03-May-12 16:53:15

Fear not tami once I get back from my holiday the damn thing won't fit grin

Tamisara Thu 03-May-12 17:05:27

As long as you don't come back this colour everlong


Can't believe the mother is really just 44! (how do you convert links and have another word instead of the whole web address?)

everlong Thu 03-May-12 17:23:18

Dear lord tami that women looks ridiculous shock and what an idiot to do that to her dd. Shocking.

No rest assured I won't be coming home that colour wink

Well done everlong I am trying to lose belly.....

chipmonkey Fri 04-May-12 16:13:04
chipmonkey Fri 04-May-12 16:14:24

It's exactly 7 months today since she went.

Oh chip <<<Hugs>>>> beautiful Sylvie-Rose, the delicate flower fairy who lives in her mummy's heart.

Oh chip anniversarries are hard. I hope you have managed today.

everlong woohoo! I can see you strutting about in the rain and cold, proudly wearing your new bikini and showing off bikini bod. grin and [jealous emoticon] Do hope you have a warm coat though... are you off on holiday this week?

tami how are you feeling today? I am sure that your concerns about your daughter are unfounded. SS wouldn't take a child away without a lot more evidence than a single GP visit with quiet, shy little girl with a few bruises. There are hundreds of children like that, especially when they are in unfamiliar circumstances - and adults too, for that matter! You mentioned that there are other things you don't know how to deal with, would it help talking about them here?

mrsY I only had Mia, so I can't advise about how to explain to your DD about your Benedict Peanut. Most people try to be as truthful as possible, although I know the loss of a child is often explained as that they have 'gone away'. For Mia, a little friend has been told that she is a star, and he waves goodnight to her when he goes to bed. chip, whatever or bluetinkerbell might be able to help.

lumpsdumps are you still around? Just wondering how you are.

everlong Fri 04-May-12 19:52:21

miasmummy it better not be raining and cold where I'm going or I'll be stropping grin

chip that link made me burst out laughing!!

MrsY Fri 04-May-12 20:19:33

Thanks Miasmummy.

The SANDS leaflet said not to use euphamisms, because little ones take things so literaly. So we actually had to say that he was dead. I don't think we would have used that word otherwise - when we told other people we said born asleep. We've explained that he's now in heaven with various family members, and with God (that's what we believe), so to have to go into the whole thing that that's only his spirit but his body is in ground seems very complicated. But we want to always be honest and we had planned on taking her up the grave at some point in the future, when it doesn't look so fresh.

That's very sweet that your little friend waves to her at night.

Hugs Chip hope today has been gentle on you. I expect it's hard to believe 7 months have passed. Thinking of you and Sylvie-Rose my friend xxxx

Where and when are you going Everlong? Would love some sun this summer but far too paranoid to go abroad this year - don't want to be too far from good hospitals just in case!

MrsY I'm so sorry to hear about your darling Benedict. Life is so very unfair. My dd2 Erin died shortly after she was born last August, she had a very rare form of fetal cancer but we had no idea of that until the pm results. Like you I have an older dd. She was 4 nearly 5 when Erin was born, we decided to let her come to the hospital and meet her baby sister. Like you we had to be almost brutally honest in a way you aren't with other adults so lots of re-iterating she was dead, she has died, no she won't be coming back, we have buried her body so we have somewhere to visit and make nice for her but her spirit is in heaven. 8 months on she seems to have accepted it extremely well she still talks about Erin and always includes her when drawing family pictures etc. She blows her kisses to heaven and believes that whenever she sees a White feather that Erin has sent it to her as she let off a dove at the funeral which in her mind went to find her in heaven. One thing I would say is the grave is unlikely to look much different for some time as it take a while for the ground to 'settle' so they don't tend to level and grass seed for anything up to a year. Take lead from your daughter, don't be afraid to show her that you are sad Benedict has gone but similarly we tried not to always cry is K bought Erin in to conversation as we wanted her to know it was good to talk about her. That does get easier as time goes on. The early days are so bleak and hard, we are here for you. Ask any questions you like nothing is taboo here. Take care xxx

Tami just to echo everyone else - SS will not take dd1 away from you. The gp sounds a bit heavy handed and clumsy. My cousin took her dd to GP's a while back as she was continually coming up with little round bruises in the oddest of places. Hers turned out to be linked to her tonsils which were getting re-occurrent infections which was dragging her overall immune system down. She had them out about 6 months ago and the bruises have disappeared! You are doing a great job with her - despite lack of home support. Go easy on yourself lovely xx

We're just back from a great day at Legoland. Bit chilly but managed not to get rained on and got to do everything with minimal queuing, hurrah! K had the best time, she's such a joy. Just started reading a book written by a lady whose first child was stillborn. So far it's very well written, it's called An exact replica of a figment of my imagination. Has anyone read it?

Phew mammoth post! smile

chipmonkey Fri 04-May-12 20:55:03

MrsY, we learned the hard way not to use euphemisms. Now, that is hard as children do take things so literally and even our explanations of Heaven had ds4 confused. We had explained that her body was in the ground in her "garden" and that her soul had gone to heaven. But for ds4 the only time people had talked about a body being separate from something else was saying, for example that a hat goes on your head and a coat goes on your body. He then thought that Sylvie-Rose's head was not in her grave but elsewhere which I thought sounded so grisly, and then it upset me and made me laugh at the same time.
He also thought that "gone to live with God" meant that she was living in the church which was "God's house" with the local priest who he assumed was God, because after all we were in God's house.
So now I tend to say she is living in Heaven with my Dad. The odd thing was, ds4 never met my Dad but when I showed him a photo of Dad, he said straight away, "That's my Grandpa"

MrsY Fri 04-May-12 21:32:03

Thanks chip and WTW.

We talked about whether to bring M to the hospital after reading the SANDS leaflet and decided not to. She has seen photos, though, and talks about her brother. So far, it seems to be that she has excepted what has happened, in that way a three year old accepts everything as being normal. She sometimes goes very quiet and says that she is sad because Peanut isn't coming to live with us, but that's pretty much parrotting what we say.

We talk about him in front of her, and so she knows she can talk about him. We don't always cry! and she has talked about him to my mum and my sister. We know we'll always be a family of four, and hopefully she will too.

[i]I feel a bit of a fraud. Things have gone back to normal and I don't feel bleak at all. I don't think about him all the time - I had a really angry day yesterday, but I think that was hormonal as it coincided with a heavy bleed and some bad stomach cramps. Other than that, life goes on. I'm fully expecting that I'll hit the wall at some point and it will all hit me - but what if that doesn't happen. I almost want to feel the pain as a battle scar kind of thing?[/i]

Sounds like you are doing all the right things MrsY and that you are supporting her through it beautifully. I think 3 is a tricky age as there is some level of comprehension but not quite enough. If K had been a year or so younger I don't think we would have let her come to the hospital. As for how you are feeling, go with it. There's no manual or set way you 'should be'. There will be good days and there will be bad days. Even now I can have a whole day of still being totally floored by everything that has happened but mostly, outwardly I am 'okay'

chipmonkey Fri 04-May-12 21:50:34

MrsY, I think you can go on a kind of "auto-Pilot" And then, I went months feeling okay-ish and suddenly this month I hit a massive wall of grief. What I have found is that as long as everything else is OK, I'm fine but if if have day-to-day issues with the boys, then I get very upset.

MrsY Fri 04-May-12 22:02:52

It's taping into an old fear of mine. I've been through a lot and I am a 'coper'. I bury things and deal with them later, by which time they are easier to deal with. But I worry that I've now become so good at burying things, I actually don't feel things as much as I should - the good or the bad. I can cry at a soppy old film, but I don't think I'm very emotional about real life. It worries me that I don't love my daughter properly, especially because I had PND after her birth.

chip thinking of you.

mrsy everyone else is so right you go into autopilot most days and then one obscure thing will set me off. A year on these days seam to come less and less but when they do they are with the same intensity that it has always hit me. I feel very alone and only want the company of DH. I don't have any other children, but I couldn't imagine seeing the grief in one so young it must be heart breaking.

mrsy just read you post, PND on top of your loss is a lot of emotions to deal with. I'm sure you really love your dd.
I too am some one who bottles up her emotions, in my family I was the one who supported my mum who is very emotional so when it happened to me and I needed support I couldn't take it especially from her. Our roles had changed, I still fine it hard talking to her as her over emotional state about Ophelia just leaves me reeling. I feel she's taking over emotionally.
All I can say is there is no right or wrong, just go with it, and maybe try and let your emotions take you, try not to bottle it up. I no its hard. But from a fellow bottle up-er let it out when your trying to hold it in, otherwise it will engulf you, it did for me ended up having a panic attack and DH had to sort me out.

MrsY Fri 04-May-12 22:38:08

My MIL is like that, I already feel she's taken over emotionally, she has boundery issues, and I quite often feel that she doesn't know how to be a grandparent. She has a whole different wardrobe for M when she stays round there, and often makes decisions as if she was her mum. She still tries to make decisions for J as if he is 10. I quite often have to sit on my hands.

She's actually set up a memorial website for Peanut, which has totally hacked me off. I don't know how to address this.

I had to tell her to leave the room when they came to see Peanut in hospital as her emotions made me feeel claustrophobic (I asked everyone to leave, but it was her I wanted to go).

Tamisara Sat 05-May-12 09:46:55

miasmummy I don't know what I meant now. I actually meant to take her about something else, yet, for some inexplicable reason, I mentioned the bruises instead. They are only on her shins right now, so logically I know that it's normal, totally normal. I think, in the back of my mind, I think I'm a child-killer. I feel (am) respsonsible for Tamsin's death. She was in my body, no body else could help her, but me. And I failed, so in short I killed her.

I'm stupidly terrified that something will happen to DD1, and in a way, I do consider running away and leaving her, or giving her to someone more responsible, as I don't feel capable, and I also feel terrified of each day as she grows up.

chip (((hugs))) Tonight it will be 6 months exactly, since I last Tamsin, since I last held her, since I last smelt her. I thought it was supposed to get easier, but this week I've cried at least half the day, everyday sad

chipmonkey Sat 05-May-12 09:53:31

MrsY, your MIL sounds overbearing. My MIL is like that but over the years I have had to learn to put my foot down sometimes and luckily dh always takes my side against her. The way your MIL does things is very upsetting though, as she's doing "nice" things so it makes it hard for you to say anything without sounding ungrateful or unreasonable. But ask dh to ask her to take the website down if it's upsetting you, Benedict is your son, you get to say whether there's a website for him or not.

MrsY Sat 05-May-12 13:00:03

She drives me mad, chip! She is used to being the main focus in the lives of both her sons and her husband, and just can't get her head around the idea that her boys now have other women in their lives. Most of the time I smile and ignore it, but every now and then she gets to me. My husband is not quite as good as yours at seeing what she's like, as a lot of it is quite subtle.

Tamisara, I totally get how you feel. We know that Benedict was fine on the Sunday night, and I feel so awful that I don't know how much he was moving on th Monday - it was my job to monitor that, and I was too busy trying to catch up on sleep and get through the contractions. If I'd paid attention, chances are we might have got to hospital quicker. With regards to your daughter, she'll always be best off with her mum, as long as she's the best mum she can be. The way you're feeling is very much how I felt when my PND was at it's worst. I thought the best thing to do would be to drive into a wall. Feel free to tell me to bog off or ignore me, but maybe you need to think about getting support (I know you said before you don't want any) but even if it's some tablets to take on a short-term basis so you can feel a bit more in control of your emotions? Can I ask how you're so sure you don't have PND?

Tamisara Sat 05-May-12 15:15:31

MrsY I do have bipolar. I was on anti-depressants (from January) but came off them as I went too high. I then stopped taking my mood stabiliser (I know how naughty that is). I have re-started it, but I have to build the dose slowly. Antidepressants do send me too 'high', which I like, but my psychiatrist thinks is more dangerous.

It's also that we were told to wait 6 months before TTC (due to having a second caesarean & womb rupturing, should have been longer, but my age is against me). DH won't consider having more, in fact he said the other night that he is glad we only have one. I wonder if this realisation that I will never have a rainbow baby, coupled with the fact that no one has ever loved me enough to want to have babies with me, is making me so despondent

Tamisara Sat 05-May-12 15:19:50

MrsY The movements thing is very odd. What I mean is, I was well aware of the importance of fetal monitoring. I had a friend whose son was stillborn in 1990. When pregnant with DS (21 yrs ago) I was at the hosptial constantly. With DD1 I went in when I didn't feel her move (which was a lot). With Tamsin, I never felt her movements strongly, but they were regular. I bled twice in late pregnancy, and went in each time. She moved mainly at night, and I'm sure I convinced myself she'd moved during the day... that DD1 was being so active that I hadn't noticed... I now think that I knew. I'm sure she'd died overnight, and even if I'd gone in the morning, she'd already have gone. I can't know that for sure, and that haunts me, but I'm pretty sure it's true. xx

MrsY Sat 05-May-12 23:52:54

Oh I see. I don't really know much about bipolar, but from your posts it did sound like how I felt when I was at my lowest. Hope your meds help soon, how much longer till your at the correct dose? I guess whether or not to have another child is such a big thing, and it's hard, because it's not aomething you can compromise on. I assume a rainbow baby is a baby conceived after a loss? (Never heard of that before).

Everyone keeps telling me I did everything right, but I know that they say that automatically to stop me from feeling bad. But I do feel bad. I know I failed him. I'll never get over that guilt. I don't think I could ever go through the emotions of pregnancy and labour again.

Today is International Bereaved Mother's Day!
For all us beautiful Angel Mum's, I wish us all a gentle day! x

MOSagain Sun 06-May-12 18:18:59

sending love and hugs to you all today.
MrsY, am so glad you came over and found these lovely ladies. Although all your friends are here for you on 'our Feb thread' and on FB we cannot fully understand what you have and will go through so I'm so pleased you are on here and hope you get the support you need. (((((hugs)))))

PS, your MIL sounds a piece of work. angry

Thank you Blue love the pic of you all snuggled on the sofa - even the cat!

Feeling a bit strange today. I bumped in to a mum of a little boy Katie used to do pre school gymnastics with last year. She was due her 2nd the same time I was due with Erin. Turned out her little boy came a bit early at 35 weeks on 23rd august - just 2 days before I went in to the same hospital and had Erin. They were in the nicu with her son the night Erin was born - apparently a cot had been all prepared for her and she said how all the mums in the nicu cried when the nurses came in later and said the cot wasn't needed because the little baby hadn't made it. That cot was meant for my Erin sad Just so strange to hear a different perspective on that that horrible night. Threw me a bit to see her little boy as well, just 2 days older than Erin should have been now, sat up in his pushchair gumming a ricecake and cheesy grinning to everyone. Jeez this is all so bloody hard.

How is everyone doing? x

wtw thanks smile it was a nice snooze!

It must indeed be strange to hear your story from another perspective. sad
We prayed in church for an angel baby and her family in church today, and it always throws me when I hear of other families having to go through the same sad
I prayed for all of us as well while I was bottle feeding my friend's little boy who is about 6 weeks younger than Sterre should have been.

what threw me today was my parents and parents-in-law were all at our house after church today, my parents on their way home and PILs and SIL coming from the wedding we missed yesterday and taking us out for lunch. They were talking about how many greatgrandchildren our grandparents have and they both forgot Sterre sad
Made me sad.
While my SIL was really nice and looking at the pics of DD1 and Sterre on the wall and saying to DD1 about the picture of Sterre, that's your baby sister. That was so nice.

Tamisara Sun 06-May-12 22:17:29

Whatever How awful that must have been! So very sad to hear about Erin's cot, and must have been so poignant to see the little lad, and imagining what Erin would have been like xx

Blue Again - so very hard (or it would have been for me) to see a little one the same age as Sterre. Very brave of you to feed him. I understand what you mean about hearing of others, I always have a lump in my throat when there is a new grave, and there has been one baby a month, since Tamsin. So sorry about you PILs, it must have made you angry. So sweet of your SIL though xx

MrsY Sun 06-May-12 22:53:06

Evening everyone. Had a tough couple of days. All the girls came round for our regular pot luck dinner and one of them is pregnant and due in September. She had a tough first delivery and also had a mc at 10 weeks last pregnancy. She's pretty anxious and was asking about having a doula, how much money was too much, what to do about childcare, what if she can't bf again blah blah blah. I managed to do about ten minutes before going into another room where I sat quietly sobbing until another friend found me. We sat talking for a while, she looked at some photos of Benedict with me and we talked about options for the gravestone etc. I wouldn't expect this friend to not be excited, or talk about things, but she seemed to have no perception that just over a week ago, I burried my son, ffs! Then when I went back in the room, all the other girls found various ways of acknowledging I had been upset without making a big thing of it, but for the rest of the evening, she didn't even catch my eye. She barely said goodbye either. I'm fairly sure it was her feeling guilty/uncomfortable, but it just left me feeling bad, which I can kind of do without.

Then at church today, everyone kept coming up and asking how I was - as if there's any way of answering that honestly. It's nice to know peope are thinking of us, but I felt totally bombared. After the service, a lady who goes every now and then with a son of a similar age to my daughter asked how things went and where was the baby? So I had to explain. All I end up doing is reassuring her that I'm ok because she was so embaressed and upset to have asked.

Blue, my mum and I were talking the other day what she can say when people ask if she has grandchildren. She would want to say three, but explaining it all is a bit much for small talk at a meeting or dinner party, isn't it? Do you think your PIL's didn't mention Sterre on purpose in case of upsetting you or getting upset themselves?

WLW It must have been really hard being confronted by another perspective of your own story. My husbands best friend and his wife had their daughter two days before we had Benedict. For the rest of my life she will be the 'if only'.

Tami, how are you feeling today? Has your anxiety over the GP appointment eased at all?

Hugs to all on IBMD. xxx

Tamisara Mon 07-May-12 11:33:10

MrsY I'm much better now, I think I was just in a really panicky mood. Last week was hideous, it was the 6 month anniversary of Tamsn's birth, the last time I saw her etc, it just brought back the grief as fresh and intense as it was, at the time xx

I think you're right about your friend being embarrassed, not that it makes it any better. The worst thing I've found, since I started this horrendous journey, is the inability for others to truly empathise. Having to apologise for others, who feel "sorry" for our loss, often leads to us, apologising to them, for 'us making them feel bad'. It shouldn't be like that, it should be them reassuring us. I have a theory about this - I wonder if it's because they 'want' us to be OK. Unlike a parent/grandparent dying (which everyone can relate to), what has happened to us is every parents worst nightmare. I think they'd rather avoid us, than have to face the fact that children do die. I think they want us to be 'OK' because if this happens to them, they want to know that it's survivable.

Your friend probably has no real concept. I've had people who've had early miscarriages, who 'understand' how I feel, and tell me that life goes on, and you get over it. I guess that it's the worse thing that's happened to them, and maybe your friend thinks her miscarriage is the same as you losing Benedict, and for her it must have been awful, but it's not the same is it?

Of course there is no way of answering honestly how you are. It's a stupid question in reality, and from saying 'fine', I now just don't answer. I thought I was being rude, but I now don't care so much about others feelings. I'm not impolite, but I clearly draw a line, and change the subject. it's such early days for you, and at times you may feel a bit better, but then you do have days where you go back again.

I think you're doing great MrsY, you really are xx

MrsY Mon 07-May-12 17:05:38

Glad you're feeling better Tami.

Had a nice day today, so feeling a little better. Out of interest, I've been approached by the lovely MOSagain about a WoolyHug blanket, and had a bit of a nose on the fb page and website. Someone with the initials CP posted recently about their blanket (with teddies) and I noticed they live close to us, I wondered if it's any of you?

it wasn't just my PILs, it was my parents as well, totally forgetting about Sterre. I had a good cry last night in bed and talked it over with DH.
I just have the feeling that because I am pregnant again, they have all forgotten about Sterre, and that this pregnancy makes everything better.
On top of that my mum has also told my grandparents I'm pregnant without asking me whether it was ok. I wanted to give them a ring myself today to tell them, but hey not necessary anymore. Was very cross at her, but didn't tell her, as that will cause a big scene.
I had explicitly not put anything on FB so I could tell them myself... ah well...
I wonder how many of my family and friends will remember Sterre's birthday in June sad

MrsY so lovely you have been offered a WoollyHug blanket! smile

chipmonkey Mon 07-May-12 18:53:51

No, I got one but my initials are OM and I'm in Ireland. My ds4 is there lying on the couch under the blanket. I think CP, if I'm right, is a lady who's husband died, so not on this thread.

Blue, I'm so sorry they forgot. Or maybe they didn't but you know people have that funny way of thinking that talking about your child will upset you, whereas we all know that not talking about your child upsets you more.

Tami, I thought I posted a couple of days ago but don't see my post so I must have gotten distracted and not pressed post! If no-one has wanted to have dc's with you, it's because you haven't met anyone who has been good enough for you. . I'd happily send my dc's to live with you! ( not that you'd thank me, mind!)

MrsY Mon 07-May-12 19:20:55

Blue - I didn't realise you're pregnant again, congratulations. Do you know what you're having?

Sorry, I am officially rubbish at putting the right post to the right person, it might take me a little while to catch up. What date is Sterre's birthday?

The blankets are just so amazing, I think the ladies that make them re wonderful. I knit, so really should have been involved before, but never knew about them before now.

MrsY Mon 07-May-12 19:22:24

Thanks chip. I saw your blanket on the fb page, it got it's own seat on the plane!

blue I'd be upset too, very upset at that omission by Sterre's grandparents. And furious with your mum... it is definitely only your news to share, especially given the circumstances. Sterre should be acknowledged when you do decide to tell people, so that they understand she holds a unique place in your heart, just as this baby will. They are not interchangeable, never!

Mrs Y What a horrible situation for you. I think you were courageous even holding that dinner. What was that woman thinking?? Or not, as the case may be. As for your church people's insensitive questioning... I totally agree with tami - people desperately want us to be 'ok' because being not ok is so very threatening to them. Too bad if people are embarrassed by our situation - I'm sorry, but what we have to live with, the loss of our beautiful children, is a million times worse.

I have been sent two beautiful pieces of writing of memories of Mia by my parents this weekend. They made both DH and I cry, the memories were so evocative and poignant, and brought back such strong emotions. They both mentioned just what a complete little unit the three of us were together, a grouping of love and joy. My father wrote The axis was perhaps the most complete, and complementary, association I have ever known... we just adored Mia, and I had no idea how very evident it was to our families.

whatever your story about Erin's cot waiting for her, and all those unknown women crying for you both made me cry...

MrsY thanks! smile I'm only 12+1 weeks so don't know yet what we're having... hopefully the consultant can pick it up at my extra 16 week scan... Sterre's birthday is 20th June... no idea yet what to do to mark the day...

chipmonkey Mon 07-May-12 19:42:29

Blue, how about releasing some balloons for Sterre? You could get dd1 to draw a little picture and attach it to the string?
btw, my Mum can't keep anything to herself. My dsis got married but it was a very quick and secret affair and neither set of parents were invited. ( or siblings, humph!) My dsis told Mum first but told her not to tell anyone else till her dh's parents had been told. So Mum told my aunt, who told my uncle who told my cousin, who posted congratulations on FB! Luckily my dsis's MIL didn't see it and dsis was able to remove the comment but dsis read my Mum the riot act! She wanted to tell her MIL in person and thought it was only fair that her MIL should know ahead of lots of random relatives.

chip that's a nice idea! We've released a balloon on her due date in November. smile
I was also thinking of baking a small birthday cake with lots of stars decorated on top...

MrsY Mon 07-May-12 20:20:08

Balloons are a nice idea, and so is the birthday cake. I just looked at your pictures, that stone is beautiful. We had No Matter What as a reading at Benedict's funeral, it's such a lovely story, and I'd been able to read it to him when we were in hospital.

MiasM I think you and Tami are right. People do just want to make you feel better, and that makes them feel better. I think I'm already hardening up though, other peoples feelings matter so much less. It's amazing how you end up reassuring people. One of our neighbours came round with some flowers and asked what had happened, she was obviously really uncomfortable, and so was I, so I totally dismissed what had happened in an overly jolly way. After she went I felt so appalled at the way I had trivialised my boy.

Firsttobed Mon 07-May-12 20:54:03

Hello, I have been following this thread since I lost my baby 3 weeks and a day ago.

I had my wonderful boy at 21 weeks and he lived for 2 hours. He was amazing having a heartbeat for that long and I was so proud of him hanging onto life. We made the hardest decision of our lives in terminating our pregnancy due to severe and multiple abnormalities. He may have lived but for an uncertain amount of time and without doubt would have suffered greatly.

I am hurting so much and am struggling with our decision although I know that this is probably par for the course.

I just wanted to say hello to you all and wondered if I could join you? Some of you were so kind to me on a thread I started and I wanted to say how grateful I was for that.

chipmonkey Mon 07-May-12 21:35:35

Welcome, FirstToBed I am so glad you found us but as we say here, so sorry you had to. I remember your thread about your darling boy and how much love you have for him. And it was a dreadful, dreadful decision you had to make, one no parent should ever have to face. We will be a listening ear. We can't take away the hurt but we can walk alongside you.

welcome to our thread First glad you found us! x

Tamisara Mon 07-May-12 21:39:51

I won't be able to get on here for a while, as having to use phone and its hard.

DH was looking over my shoulder, when I was on FB, and demanded to see my profile. When he saw that I didnt have marital status he got funny, I said it was because we recently had problems. I shut it, and he suddenly thumped it hard (bad enough to feel on leg). I knew it was bad as it made a pop. Sure enough the screen doesn't work

He wants me to apologise for being "single" on fb, as apparently I am a disgusting person, who gets off on making him angry.

Im sitting in bed, in tears, heartbroken, because not only do I have thousands of photos & videos of dd1 on there, I also have dozens of poems I wrote for Tamsin.

He is a computer engineer, so could fix it maybe, but I'd have to apologise, and I can't bring myself to, not after he broke it, maybe I' unreasonble.

Irony is he is outside on his laptop.

Tamisara Mon 07-May-12 21:46:31

firsttobed - i am so sorry (((hugs))) i missed your post xx

chipmonkey Mon 07-May-12 21:48:35

Tami, don't ask him, bring it to a computer repair store. So angry with him for doing that to you!

firsttobed hello. You are a brave, lovely lady. I'm sure you would not have made that impossibly difficult decision lightly, and you did it with love. Please share whatever you like on this thread.

tami your H is trying to control you... yet again. Agree with chip, find a local repair person to retrieve all those precious stories and photos.

Mia I had a dream about your lovely Mia last night. I was back at my old primary school in Belgium and they decided they wanted to build a garden, so I said they had to do it in memory of Mia...

MrsY Tue 08-May-12 10:02:47

Hi First, I'm so sorry for your loss. My son Benedict was born asleep nearly four weeks ago, so we can travel this road together. What is your sons name?

Hi to everyone else, hope you had a good BHM. Just running out of the door to Ms music group, have a good day!

tami I agree DH sounds like he's controlling you, I would take it to a computer repair place, but I would also go to DH and say, I'm not apologising but I am sorry if something like maritial status on FB upsets you. Its not meant with any malice its a social network, everyone I speak to on there knows I'm with you, its not a dating network. But maybe you should apologise for breaking my laptop with force! And just leave him to mull it over.
Not sure if you would be able to or if he will let you say that, but it sounds like you need to lay it straight to him.

Ah blue that is just so generous of your dream self! I hope that your primary school also did something lovely to remember your beautiful Sterre. I do wonder about Mia and dreams, she is always popping into so many different ones. Such a busy girl - but I'd love her to visit me too sometimes.

Not sure if yesterday anyone saw a new children's programme about "cloud babies"? My friend told me about it. It seems that they fly high in the sky on colourful horses, and their job is to polish the moon, shine the sun and keep the rainbows painted brightly... I like that thought of our children spreading their love, giggles and warmth to keep the colour and light in our lives.

Oh tami angry how are things today? A few weeks back you were going to call WA for some advice/support - did you manage to? My dp works in IT - I wish you lived closer so he could fix it for you!

Firsttobed a warm but sad welcome here. Fwiw I think you made a very brave and selfless decision to ensure your ds didn't suffer. A true example of a mothers love xx

Aw Blue and Mias I love that dream smile

How are you feeling about DS1 and school now Chip?

All okay here - apparently Erin's stone should be ready any day now. Can't wait to see it but also dreading it.

Hope everyone is well. Waves Everlong Shabs Lavandes miss hearing from you xx

Firsttobed Tue 08-May-12 15:03:25

Thank you all for your welcome and kind words. I'm very touched.

How would you deal with this one? I imagine that this will get more common in time to come. I had an email from a friend yesterday which made me sad because she said "I expect you're still grieving." Well yes I am and I still have his funeral flowers up. Thing is, why should I expect her to understand? I'm glad that she's not had to go through this.

Would it sound strange if I said I'm not ready to share his name yet? We are getting a bench to remember him which will sit in a special sheltered sunny spot in the garden. My mil got the wrong end of the stick and thought it was for the crematorium for other people to sit on. I told her I didn't want to share him with anyone else as he was so small he was only mine. Sorry long winded way of saying something similar. But hopefully not offensively!

ooh first of course you are still grieving love, you never stop! sad I'm almost a year down the path and still grieving! ((hugs))

everlong Tue 08-May-12 16:39:24

Hiya whatever sorry I've not been on much, so sad to see so many new mums sad

How are you, I bet your bump is growing nicely now smile it's a lovely stage of pregnancy that you are at, not to big but all glowing and shiny, although I never was!

miasmummy how are you doing, sorry forgot how far you are, have you got your 12 week scan soon?

tami I am sad to read your post about your H, he is an arse to do that. But you know my feelings about him. Hope you are ok?

chip how are you?

Hello to everyone else smile xxx

MrsY Tue 08-May-12 17:35:34

Of course, First, do whatever you need to help. x

first sorry I didn't welcome you, I'm not on this thread much but found myself drawn back to it after my second miscarriage after my daughter was stillborn just over a year ago. I don't think its weird at all that you don't want to share his name. I find myself very possesive over my daughter and really struggle when others have become emotionally attached to items I associate with her. I associate yellow tulips with her and my mum seams to have taken this over too. It grates me, though I should be thankful that she thinks about Ophelia.

MrsY Tue 08-May-12 19:03:36

*help yourself. x

Firsttobed I would very simply spell out 'I will be grieving for a long time, the loss of a child is not something you can 'get over'' People really struggle with what to say - we've had some spectacular examples of insensitive comments on here.

Everlong my friend grin <waves madly> Think I might have 'popped' in the last few days as I'm suddenly getting 'bump' comments. Scary and nice. Sometimes when strangers comment I even manage to reply like a 'normal' pregnant person and not a bundle of anxiousness! Feeling good and energetic at the moment though. How are you doing?

MrsY you will love and cherish your mn blanket. I adore mine and snuggle under it most nights. There's pics of dd1 cuddled under it on my profile (just to warn you though there are pics of Erin on there too)

Just had an email from Boots Parenting Club 'Your baby is now 8 months old and starting to explore finger foods'. hmmangrysad I unsubscribed to all of these last year but in the last few weeks I've had boots, NCT and bounty all email me 'milestone updates'. It's just not on and it seems to be a common problem a few months after unsubscribing angry

MrsY Tue 08-May-12 21:02:37

WTW, your girls are both beautiful. In fact, looking at your photos of Erin prompted me to put a photo of Benedict on my profile, but in the end I chose one of him and his SANDS bear, as it's not such a personal picture.

I know what you mean about the emails. I got out of hospital to a load of them, as well as FB automatically posting something on my wall, because I had put my due date in at some point. sad

everlong Tue 08-May-12 21:27:20

<waves back grin >I bet you look fabulous whatever I can feel happiness and energy through your post, you're doing so well smile

I'm doing good thanks, I'm off to santorini in a few weeks with my oldest pal for a week of lazing and sunbathing, I can't wait smile

chipmonkey Wed 09-May-12 12:06:22

envy at santorini!

Oh ladies - we had a call today to say Erin's stone was ready and we could go and view it. When we got there it was HUGE I mean seriously big, wouldn't look out of place on an adults grave sad

I'm so sad and disappointed we've waited nearly 6 months for it and it's just not right. I had an image of a small delicate silvery blue stone, with lovely pale pink lettering and twinkling stars and butterflies. In reality it looks like a huge slab of dark granite, massive ostentatious lettering, the letters are a pinky orange colour (the butterflies are beautiful though!) It cost us £1200 and we were happy to pay that but we wanted it to be perfect for her. I don't want to spend the next 40 odd years wincing at the size of her headstone sad They are going to take it to the cemetery on Friday so we can see it with perspective but I know it's too big compared to all the other stones in the children's area. I can't stop crying about it - stupid I know. I feel like we should have been more careful choosing it, looking back I don't think we ever knew the exact dimensions so it's probably as much our fault. I so wanted to get her little plot sorted for summer sad

Sorry for long self indulgent post blush

Everlong also envy at Santorini. A well deserved break my friend x

chipmonkey Wed 09-May-12 18:59:24

Oh, Whatever!sad It is so bloody difficult, you have a lovely picture in your head and then it's not right when you see it. Do the memorial company know you're not happy? Will they rectify it for you?

everlong Wed 09-May-12 19:04:44

Oh whatever I'm really sorry Erin's stone isn't right sad don't blame yourself, choosing a child's headstone is one of the worst things we will ever do, it is no wonder you didn't think about the dimensions, tbh the masons should have picked up on this and pointed it out.

Just thinking is the plot where Erin is buried big enough for other family when there time comes? If so then a big stone might not be so bad as other names could be added. Just clutching at draws for you.

Hopefully when you see it, it won't look like you are thinking it is.

I'm sorry ((((hugs))))) sad

Sadly not Everlong it's just child's plot. Its so much bigger than anything else there. They do know we think it's too big Chip but they just said it would look different once it's up there but it is honestly nearly as high and wide as an average adult size. Just totally over the top for a teeny baby. I could kick myself that we didn't go somewhere where you could actually see a sample of the actual stone size, if we'd seen it we would never in a million years have chosen it sad

everlong Wed 09-May-12 19:48:57

Ok whatever why don't ask your DP to ring them in the morning explaining how upset you both are and if there's anything they can do before it's set?

If they can't do anything what about adding a lovely poem or some other heartfelt words?

Try not to stress xxx

Oh it's not being set Friday they are just taking it there so we can see what it would look like 'in situ' I don't mean to sound stamp my feet bratty about it at all, it's just it will be hers, the last real tangible thing we can do for her and it just has to be right otherwise I'll feel like i've let her down. Am probably being totally hormonal blush We've agreed if we still think it's too big we'll just have to order another one.

everlong Wed 09-May-12 20:14:28

Love you don't sound bratty at all this important very important to you both of course it's got to be perfect.

You haven't let Erin down, no way. Please don't think this, you are under so much stress and being pregnant as well is enough alone to make you not think straight.

Have a bath and a cuddle with DP and try not to get too upset.

Sending big hugs and a virtual big bar of chocolate xxx

chipmonkey Wed 09-May-12 20:23:29

whatever, the company, if they're any good will be understanding. In my job, once a pair of glasses is made it's made and you can't uncut the lenses BUT having said that, at the end of the day, if a patient is unhappy, we will re-do them, mostly at our own expense but sometimes, even if we have warned someone strongly, that they were making the wrong choice re lenses/frames, if they are unhappy we will do them again at a discounted price. I have never worked for a monument company but I'm sure it's kind of similar.

whatever oh, poor you. I would be devastated too. Like chip, I really hope that they will be understanding and be able to create a new one for Erin which will suit her.

Had a dream about Mia last night. She was a bit grumpy and I was holding her in my arms. It felt so wonderful. Somehow, I was thinking that I could make things better, and that I figured out a way to stop her dying, which made me so happy. She fell asleep, contented, and I kissed her soft forehead, and she smiled in response in her sleep. Her skin was so soft. It was terrible to wake and find it all wasn't true. Mia still isn't here.

chipmonkey Thu 10-May-12 10:12:39

Mias, I had a dream like that, the other night, that I was talking to doctors about Sylvie-Rose and that she had health issues but we were going to resolve them. So awful to wake up, isn't it?sad

Thank you ladies, sorry for the moony rants, had a very tearful night and am exhausted today but got a ton of work to get through before we can go on holiday!

Had a call from them this morning. They have now begrudgingly realised they've used the wrong size stone (no shit!!) and that actually it's too large for the cemetery regulations for the baby area! So they've offered to send it away, cut the stone again, remove all the lettering and re-do it. Cost hasn't been talked about. Now I don't know whether to tell them to stuff it we'll go elsewhere, we've waited over 5 months when we were quoted 2-3 months and it's wrong or let them try and fix it. I just don't have the energy to deal with this right now.

Miasmummy I'm so glad Mia came to you in her dreams for some Mummy comfort when she was grumpy xx

whatever well, I guess that is something. But how draining... Is there anyone you and DP trust to deal with these people for you, and ask for exactly what you want, in a reasonable timeframe? There is nothing wrong with wanting to make it perfect for your beautiful Erin.

everlong Thu 10-May-12 10:23:52

Hopefully they will get it looking just how you want now whatever ?

If money isn't an issue I might be tempted to go elsewhere but I know they aren't cheap, it might be worth giving them a chance?

Hope you feel a bit calmer today x

Am going to talk it over with dp tonight. We've paid half as a deposit and the other half is still outstanding to be paid on completion so I would argue we shouldn't have to pay the remaining £700 if we did go elsewhere. Here comes the stupidly overly hormonal psb comment - I'm scared if I let them fix it the person doing it will be pissed off at having to and I wanted her stone to be carved with love not anger blushblush I am a muppet I'll go away now and stop going on about it!

chipmonkey Thu 10-May-12 11:10:11

whatever the person doing it knows it's for a little baby. It is their mistake so they won't be angry. And I know, if it were my job to do something like that for a tiny baby who had died, there would be no way I could do it with anything but love.

everlong Thu 10-May-12 11:14:32

Nooo they won't be angry, not when it's for a little baby.

shabs thinking of you today, it must be a hard one, 20 years sad Will light a candle for your lovely boy tonight xxx

whatever I'm sure they'll be able to fix it with love for you, I really hope so at least. So sorry that they got it wrong in the first place sad x

Firsttobed Thu 10-May-12 12:51:59

Whatever I'm sure it will get fixed. I have not been in that position but what has struck me since we lost little B is how kind everyone has been. I am sure that that extends further down the line too.

Mias what a lovely dream. How wonderful to be able to cuddle her again and feel her soft skin. It must have made you so happy. I too have been having dreams about little B. It must be the mind trying to make sense of what has happened and trying to make it all alright - how fortunate we are that it can be so in our dreams.

Tamisara Thu 10-May-12 20:59:04

Finally got my laptop fixed (needed a new screen, so the photos/poems are all safe).

whatever I hope that you do get the headstone sorted. I understand totally that you want it to be right, of course it's got to be (((hugs))) I remember when we went to see Tamsin's coffin - the day before her funeral - and they'd written "Tasmin" on it, I was so incredibly upset. They did fix it before the next day, but I don't know what I'd have done if they hadn't. What's shit is having to do these things at all xx

Miasmummy I'm so pleased that Mia visited you, sorry that she wasn't still there (physically) when you woke. Of course she still is with you, every minute, in a way that living children aren't, but that's little consolation xx

Hi to everyone else <waves manically>

I feel a bit angry at some comments on another site. I know I'm wrong, I know I am, and I wonder if I've become more unreasonable since losing Tamsin, but it upsets me so much, to hear people talking about murdered children as if their lives didn't matter much, but so much sympathy for the murderer. I need to stay away, as obviously my empathy has disappeared, and I only really feel sorry for the poor kiddies.

Along with the new screen, I have also uploaded Tamsin's hand & footprints, which I finally scanned in smile

Tamisara Thu 10-May-12 20:59:39

Uploaded to my profile I meant to say

MrsY Thu 10-May-12 21:30:04

WTW, sorry to hear about the stone. We are just starting to think of what we want. I have found a stonemason who's work looks gorgeous, so have to get some quotes I guess, and make some desicions. Peanut isn't in a children's area, as they can't have individual headstones in our cemetary's children's area, so he is tucked in a quiet corner, under a tree, in one of the main parts. We bought an adult sized plot, so J and I can have our cremated returns added in the future. We must write wills soon.

Miasmummy what a lovely dream, so hard that we can't stay in dreams like that forever.

Tami glad to hear that the poems and photos are safe. One thing I picked up on from a SANDS booklet was to upload photos etc to the internet, so we have a private flickr account for our photos.

Today, my boy should be one month old. sad Can't really type anymore as typing through tears. I miss him so much.

Tamisara Thu 10-May-12 21:45:16

MrsY (((hugs))) xx

Miasmummy I forgot to say - I saw the ad for Cloudbabies, and was going to mention it on here, but you beat me to it smile I watched an episode the other night, on BBC iPlayer. I wanted to watch it without DD1 present, and I cried. Silly I know, but I thought of our little ones, playing up there in the clouds xx

chipmonkey Thu 10-May-12 22:26:25

Tami, I meant to say what MrsY said, do set up a remote account to store those precious photos. Anything could happen to your laptop. Even if you just email them to yourself, at least they're stored on your email account. Do it now! [bossy]

frasersmummy Thu 10-May-12 23:28:06

I just popped by to say I am thinking of matty....and my dear friends shabs tonight

chipmonkey Fri 11-May-12 12:05:58

Nice to see you, fm!smile

where is everyone? more importantly, how is everyone?

Had a busy day yesterday and a very early start - 10 hours of driver training in London for my Olympic volunteer role. All very affirming and exciting. However, I really hit the wall when I went to bed. Somehow, I still obviously associate Mia and feeling happy, and when she wasn't there at home waiting for me, asleep in her bed, I had such heaviness inside me, I just cried and cried. Quite strange, given that over six months have passed...

Tamisara Sat 12-May-12 15:09:50

Miasmummy 6 months may have passed, but it's not strange, not at all. She should have been tucked up in bed, why shouldn't you cry that she isn't, even after 6 months, it's so unfair (((hugs))) xx

I was feeling a lot better this week, until today. I think a cashier may have (inadvertantly) made me feel bad. She is (seemingly) a bit psychic. She said to me yesterday, that I looked different. I was well-chuffed. I've lost over a stone in weight (which even DS noticed), so thought she was commenting on that.

Sadly not. She asked how many "weeks" I am. I (being very dense) didn't twig what she meant, and she said "you're pregnant aren't you?"
I replied "no". She didn't seem to believe me, saying that she knew these things, and if I didn't want to say... I kept repeating that I wasn't, to which she finally said "we'll see". I had to then tell her that unless I'm going to be known as 'The Virgin Tamisara' (or at least 'celibate tamisara) then there wasn't a chance in hell.

She then got flustered, and said that my face was 'glowing'. She also said "at least you've got DD1, that makes up for it"... aargh!

I don't know. I'm really upset that someone thought I may be pregnant (even worse having lost weight), and also that DD1 makes up for losing Tamsin, when it doesn't make a difference confused

chipmonkey Sat 12-May-12 17:14:13

Mias, I think we will all be hitting those walls for many, many years.Six months is nothing, nothing at all. Mia should be tucked up in her bed, every night.

Oh dear, Tami, that woman sounds like a terrible psychic! Why on earth she thought it was OK to say anything at all to you, is beyond me! And of course dd1 doesn't make up for Tamsin, they are two different children, she probably just didn't know what to say. She'd best not give up her day-job!

MrsY Sat 12-May-12 22:39:17

Miasmummy, so hard when you're hit with again like that. x

Tami that must have been horrid, people just grasp at anything they can to try and help themselves and help you. They just don't seem to understand that there is nothing they can do.
Well done on loosing the weight, that's great.

Have had a tough few days. I just keep being hit by the injustice of it all. We have so few positives to take from what happened - I just wish I could have seen him smile once, or seen the colour of his eyes. We have no funny remember-when's. Part of me would be happy to scrub the last 11 months entirely. I wish could hold him, but I don't know if that counts as missing him - seeing as we never knew him. We don't know if he'd be a clingy baby, or have colic, or be a good feeder. So can we really say we miss him? Or do we just want a baby in the house? Sorry, that sounds so harsh. I just hurt so much that it feels like all I associate with him is the pain of loosing him.

Firsttobed Sun 13-May-12 01:35:16

That's so unfair Tami and how slow to pick up on her mistake.

Mias - yes she should be waiting for you and I echo - 6 months is not long at all.

MrsY I'm sorry. It isn't right. That sounds so weak but I'm truly sorry for your loss and like you say the injustice of it all. My husband wrote something similar to your words in little B's tribute: how can we talk about him? Would he be a happy baby? Sleep well? Feed well? Would he cooperate with nappy changes? We can never say because we will never know. Our losses are very different but some feelings are similar.

It's 4 weeks today since he was born and died. I miss him so terribly. My baby boy. My beautiful boy. Please forgive me. Xxx

chipmonkey Sun 13-May-12 09:47:12

MrsY, I did get to know Sylvie-Rose, kind of. She was a premature little baby and when she was born first, she mostly slept. She was in an incubator and at feeding times I used to sometimes take her out and sometimes leave her in the incubator depending on how the nurses felt. If I took her out for one feed, then they wouldn't let me take her out for a second feed as they felt it would be too taxing for her. But yet they said she was "feisty", objected loudly when a new tube had to be put in, tried to take all the wires off.
This was all between the "age" of 28 weeks and 35 weeks when they finally let her out. Even at that age, she was most definitely a person and sometimes quite a grumpy person if things weren't going her way! Your Benedict was a person like that but because he was in your tummy you didn't get to see all the little quirks and traits that made him himself. There has never been a person like him before and there will never be a person like him again. And you know that if someone turned up at your door tomorrow with a new baby boy, that baby boy would never replace Benedict, so it is Benedict that you miss.

Sylvie-Rose never got to smile either. Shortly after she died, I dreamt that I was looking into her cot, she was sleeping and then she woke, looked up and smiled at me. I felt that she was "visiting" me and saying "Look, Mammy, I do smile"

First don't feel that B has anything to forgive you for. Most of Sylvie-Rose's life was spent in NICU and SCBU. It's not a fun place and the prodedures aren't nice for the babies. Everything is difficult, feeding, breathing, just existing. And Sylvie-Rose was one of the healthy ones. From what you say, that would have been B's life and he would never have got to leave. As it was, he went straight from your warm, cosy womb to Heaven where he hasn't a care in the world!

Ellypoo Sun 13-May-12 12:25:00

Hi - new to this thread, but 'know' some of you from the rainbow thread.
Firstly, I just want to say how sorry i am that we are here at all, but it is 'nice' to have somewhere to come to talk to other people who know pretty much exactly what i'm going through.
My beautiful baby girl Constance (Nancy) was born at 37 weeks by EMCS after I had suffered reduced movements, on 29th Dec 2011. She was very tiny (just under 5lbs), and had suffered from oxygen starvation which meant that her brain was damaged, and that led to all of her little organs failing. They transferred her to another hospital which had a neo-natal intensive care unit, in Leeds - the first time I saw her was when she was 7 hours old and in the incubator thing being transferred up to LGI. I'd had a CS under general anaesthetic, so they wouldn't transfer me until the following day - she was over 24hr old when I finally got to see her properly, and she was hooked up to loads of machines and things. Sadly, her condition didn't improve overnight, and we had to make the decision to take her off the ventilator and machines the following day. We were able to bath her & dress her before she passed away in our arms, she was just 2 days old. My Mum drove us home a couple of hours later - i couldn't stay in hospital any longer, they had put me on the post-natal ward so all I could hear the night we were in that hospital was other babies crying, and there was no way I could cope with that. As we drove back home, it was New Years Eve, and we just saw fireworks all the way down the motorway.
The next few weeks were a bit of a blur - we had to return to Leeds (to the ward that she had been on) to collect the death certificate, and we had to register her birth & death, and then arranged her funeral.

I am now back at work full time, and people ask me how I am - what can I say? I'm juts muddling through, trying to find a new sense of normal. I'm just finding it so hard - in many ways it's getting harder, not easier as time goes on.

Sorry for the massive essay!

chipmonkey Sun 13-May-12 15:55:26

Welcome, Elly and my goodness, what a terrible time you had. I am so sorry you find yourself here on our thread but you are very welcome. I don't know how I would have coped without these wonderful ladies since my Sylvie-Rose died.

We had a play-centre party for ds4's birthday today . I know some if the parents but not all of them. I was asked the usual questions about how many children we have. I explained about Sylvie-Rose as usual. One of the dads just said "God, four boys!" in that annoying way people do but I was upset that he acted as if I hadn't mentioned Sylvie-Rose.

Later, I was talking to one of the Mums who was talking about her BIL whom she can't stand as he treats women so badly. She then went on to say that it's because there were only four boys in her dh's family and that they needed a sister to make them treat women better! She knows I have four boys and that we lost their sister!

Is it just me or have I encountered more than the average number of crass comments today?

Ellypoo Sun 13-May-12 16:13:48

Oh god chip, I can't believe just how insensitive people can be sometimes - i have to try to convince myself that they can't help it & don't realise what they are saying, otherwise I just couldn't cope! SIL(to be) asked if I was feeling better as I am back at work - i had to explain that this isn't something that you just get over, and that you just have to learn to live with the absolute constant agony that you now have in your life.

I'm so sorry about your daughter, Sylvie-Rose; such a beautiful name - it must be so hard, trying to deal with your grief but also try to stay strong for your DS's.

It's so important to have people you can speak to who understand - I have met a really lovely friend who lost her baby boy last year when he was 9 days overdue, so it has been good to have someone close who I can talk to. I meet up with my Mum friends from ante-natal classes and it is so hard to see their babies who are around the same age as Nancy would be, and seeing them reach milestones that she won't is so hard. One of them lost twins at 22 weeks a few years ago, and my friend who lost her son last year has just had a rainbow baby boy and she joins us when we meet up now too, so it's nice, but really hard at the same time.

Sorry for the really long post again smile

chipmonkey Sun 13-May-12 22:27:15

And as if it wasn't bad enough, I have just come home in tears from my ILs. SIL and BIL's little dd is the same age Sylvie-Rose ought to be and MIL and my other SIL were joking about them having more babies. MIL joked that 5 was too many and my other SIL said the mire you had the more awkward holidays get. They acted like they had forgotten all about our little girl who was our 5th. Ffs, I wouldn't be bothered about holidays if I could have her back! DHAC's everywhere I looked today. sad

Oh chip and elly, what are these people like? I am so sad and angry for you - and for tami too. Maybe you should just say exactly what you think and shock them into being more considerate. I know I should be charitable and think, well, they don't really know what they are saying - but then the next thought is, well, it's about time they knew!

MrsY Sun 13-May-12 23:07:32

People just don't seem to have any idea of what they're saying, do they? Or they do, but then their mouths run away with them...

Elly, so sorry to hear about your darling Constance - I love her name, btw, so pretty. It must be so hard to be back and work. It's only been a month since we lost our boy, and people at work seem to either burst into tears when they see me, walk on eggshells or bluster 'trying to be normal'. I know it's hard to know what to say, but it just draws attention to it.

My comment of the day comes from a lady at church, who said how well I was looking at what nice earrings I was wearing. They matched my cardi, and she looked me up and down and said it was nice to see me back to my old self, "all better now". Erm, no, not all better now. I burried my son less than two weeks ago. It hurts like hell. Then she asked how my husband was, because "so often, the men get overlooked with these pregnancy-things and miscarriages and so on". I was so taken aback I didn't think to WTAF her.

Really dreading my follow up appointment with the ob consultant and mw on Wednesday. Almost don't want to go...

chipmonkey Sun 13-May-12 23:24:43

Mias, I would love to say exactly what I think but would probably then be known as poor deranged chip who used to be normal until she lost her daughter!

MrsY, I actually preferred the people who burst into tears, at least you knew they were empathetic! The ones who want you to be "normal", I think are lacking something within themselves and are trying to push our pain outward away from themselves.

I am finding that it's true what people here have said, that you get sympathy early on and then people forget. And they seem to think we should forget too. The thing is, how can you forget? I look at ds1 now, who is 15 and I remember the day he was born, his face, his cry, how tiny he was, the green babygros because we didn't know if he was a boy or a girl before he was born. I know most mothers are the same. So how could I forget my little girl only 7 months after we lost her?

chipmonkey Sun 13-May-12 23:30:13

By the way, I have started a prayer thread in Philosophy for expatinscotland's little girl, Ailidh, who is very ill with leukaemia but who has found a bone marrow donor so now has a good chance of recovery. Can any of us who pray, ask our own angels to have a word with the boss up there and ask that expat never has to join us here. Thead is here

chipmonkey Tue 15-May-12 09:52:46

morning all xx
All very quiet.

orion3 Tue 15-May-12 10:04:57

morning chip
Just checking in while taking a mini break at work. Hope everyone is well.x

MrsY Tue 15-May-12 11:06:54

Yes, very quiet.

I'm locked in the house today - so will be on mn more than usual! I'm gutted, I was going to go and visit Benedict today. sad Hope I can find enough to keep the Mouse occupied until my mum comes round and can let us out!

Hi all, yes, super-quiet here for the past few days. My broadband is playing up, so very hard to concentrate on writing anything, as i don't know whether it will make it through the ether or not...

Some lovely words I'd like to share from my cousin. She was told that "Everyone, no matter who they are, will have golden moments in our lives." Sometimes hard to believe, sitting where we are... but as she said, my flame-headed Mia only had golden moments. She would be 20 months old today, a landmark we would probably not even notice if she were here.

chipmonkey Tue 15-May-12 12:34:40

What a lovely thing your cousin said, Mias.

MrsY, how did you get locked in? That sounds awful!

MrsY Tue 15-May-12 12:42:47

That's a lovely thought, MiasMummy.

Well, it's not as dramatic as that, chip. My husband left the house before we were up this morning (the Mouse woke at 9!) and so he locked the door behind him. Unortunately, I can't find my keys. I can get out, so no worries if there's a fire or something, but wouldn't be able to get in again. On a nice day, I'd head off somewhere and not head home until my mum was due, but when the weather is miserable, I'd rather stay warm and dry!

Having an angry day today. I keep seeing poems and things that people post to try and give comfort, but they just make me feel worse. It's just not fair. I want my boy back.

chipmonkey Tue 15-May-12 13:28:50

MrsY, people try to help but sometimes the things they say don't help and sometimes the poems jar. In those early days, the only proletariat who said anything remotely helpful were people who had lost a child themselves.

Yes, the worst things I was told were "Oh, she's in a better place" or "These things happen for a reason." Even now, those stupid phrases make me furious. What better place can a child be except with their loving parents? And there is simply no reason. All I can say is - I don't understand, I will never understand. How can we?

Ellypoo Tue 15-May-12 13:51:34

It makes me so angry when people say things like that MiasMummy - how on earth could our Angels be in a better place than here, and what possible reason could be behind this heartbreaking tragedies. I just can't cope when people say things like that at all - they are such stupid phrases that make absolutely no sense at all.

MrsY Tue 15-May-12 14:23:16

That's just how I feel, there is no reason. And there is no better place for my son to be than in my arms.

It helps to know you all feel the same - I just wish none of us had to know this pain.

Firsttobed Tue 15-May-12 15:28:14

Well I agree that it's wrong to say that these things happen for a reason because that's complete and utter rubbish. But I'm sorry it breaks my heart that I just can't agree that there's no better place for my son than with me.

I know that most of you are in very different positions to me and I acknowledge that I joined you knowing that. If my child had lived he would have suffered every day of his life and I could not have put him through that. However much it hurts me - and believe me I'm crying as I write this, not least because it's a month today since he died - I know that he is not suffering now and that the decision at we made for him, difficult as it was, was the right one.

I hope that this doesn't offend anyone; that was not my intention. X

oh first, I'm sorry, I didn't mean to upset or hurt you any more than you are already hurting with my words.

MrsY Tue 15-May-12 16:55:22

First, don't worry about offending us, or having a different opinion, we all need to get through this horrible experience as best we can. And that's going to be in different ways for each of us.

In a way, I'm jealous that you are able to accept that (please don't take that the wrong way, it must have been an awful decision and so hard to deal with) but I wish I had the reassaurance that Benedict was better off where he is.

The decision you made was a true example of what being a parent means - putting your child first and foremost. You did something that you knew would mean unimaginable grief for you and your partner, because it was the best thing for your son. I have the guilt of knowing that because of my selfishness, and putting my own needs of catching up with sleep and the impatience of wanting the pregnancy over with, I wasn't paying attention to my son's movements. I did exactly the opposite of you.

Firsttobed Tue 15-May-12 17:09:15

Mia's I know but thank you. And what you write is right for you. I just wanted to tell what I was feeling. I'm at the very start of this journey now and still feeling very raw. Getting through the day but scratch the surface and there's hell bubbling underneath. Gutted that I was making cakes with my youngest and didn't time check when he was born this afternoon.

It's not easy at all. I spent the afternoon sorting out returning to work and thought I was in an ok place but a couple of things have happened today and I've blubbed like I've not done since he was here. Today has caught me unawares and I'm sorry.

I've still got time to send him love before he time he died. I feel like a fraud among all you lovely ladies who had no choice in what happened to your children.

Firsttobed Tue 15-May-12 17:20:54

MrsY I'm sorry I posted before I saw yours. Thank you for your words. I am jealous of you too, that you didn't have a choice. I didn't feel able to put it in my last post. And I don't think that you did have a choice despite your last two sentences. I've read your thread although I haven't commented and feel I know your story. I'm so very sorry that you feel that way but maybe nothing would have changed the outcome.

We are all dealing with terrible emotions, feelings of what if and I'm being selfish if I think that it's just me who feels that way.

MrsY Tue 15-May-12 17:52:26

Please don't apologise. We're all going through something that no-one should have to, and for whatever reason, in whatever circumstances it happened, it's hell on earth. None of our pain is any purer or better than the others.

Ellypoo Tue 15-May-12 18:10:37

I totally agree MrsY.

I also wish that I'd noticed the reduced movements sooner - I was just so busy because it was Christmas, that I didn't pay enough attention. If I had, maybe they would have realised that Constance was struggling and they might have delivered her before so much damage was caused. Maybe if I hadn't put so much weight on, the MW would have realised that she was so small and they would have picked up on the bloodclots in the placenta that caused all the problems before (I measured spot on every appointment until the very end).

There are too many if's, but's and maybe's - and we could all torture ourselves for the rest of our lives agonising over what might have been different if only ... We've all got too much of that to come to terms with without punishing ourselves further.

MrsY Tue 15-May-12 18:26:38

That's it, Elly. We're going through so many emotions - anger, sadness, confusion etc, that we really don't need to add guilt on top.

Hugs and squeezes to us all. x

sybilfaulty Tue 15-May-12 18:39:29

Good evening ladies smile

I hope you don't mind my intruding but I have linked your special thread to a mum here who looks as if she might need some support.

Sending you all my very best wishes.

Tamisara Tue 15-May-12 18:47:23

The reduced movements is something that will haunt me forever. I knew all about reduced movements, I should have acted sooner. I knew something was going to happen to Tamsin. I was reassured by my team, who all thought I was a neurotic mum to be, they never took me seriously.

At Tamsin's scan (just 5 days before she died) her fluid levels had dropped. Before they had been borderline high, then they were 11. As far as the consultant was concerned this was still in normal range, and indeed it was, but normal for who? As the fluid had been high previously, then it falling sharply must have signified something. There was no fluid just after she died.

After being led up the 'maybe be lupus anticoagulant' path, I now believe that the cord was compressed after the fluid went down. Which is why she was moving one night, then not the next morning.

chipmonkey Wed 16-May-12 11:05:14

Actually, my belief is that Sylvie-Rose is is a better place. But she shouldn't be there. I mean, if I knew that Sylvie-Rose was living in, say Buckingham palace and was being looked after and was very rich and had lots of things that I couldn't give her, well, I still wouldn't be happy about it!
First, when I was pregnant with Sylvie-Rose my bloodwork came back as high risk for trisomies. I ended up not getting any further tests but I do remember thinking that if she had a condition incompatible with life and NICU was all she was ever likely to know, then I probably would have made the choice you made. I had been in NICU with ds3 before and it was as good as the nurses and doctors could make it but it wasn't home and I think going straight from your tummy to heaven was exactly right for your little man. Particularly if he would have been so ill that all he knew was pain.

Oh ladies, all I can say that we have experienced horrors that we would never have imagined. Such terrible moments, difficult memories, and haunting pain. But also, what love we have for our children! Yes, we have immeasurable regrets for what they have lost, but also, we will always have enduring, unending quantities of love for those babies we created and carried. Every word we write here is a testament to them. Even our tears are liquid love.

Feeling very, very apprehensive about tomorrow. We have Mia's pre-inquest review, where the coroner and all the various lawyers get together to agree how long Mia's inquest should be, when it should be and where. Nervous about the timeframe, as we got back the expert witness report which doesn't really help us much. Our lawyers think the coroner may only agree to four days, rather than the original 8-10 days we wanted against the coroner's expectation of 2 days. I just want there to be enough time for all the arguments to be presented properly. We know what we think happened. But there is what is 'reasonable' and what is the 'truth' - and they aren't always the same. And also, it may be that the inquest is to be held on the same site as the crematorium where we had Mia's celebration of her life - the local council in their wisdom decided to put the coroner's court on the same site... Just scared about it all. This is all so real.

Firsttobed Thu 17-May-12 10:04:46

Mia's, forgive me I know a little about when the coroner gets involved but why des ther have to be an inquest for Mia? Dont feel you have to answer if you don't want to.

To everyone, many loving thoughts and prayers. I don't usually pray but ever since B died I've been thinking about God so much more.

Chip, your words are always so considered and kind. What you said about NICU has added another dimension to my thinking and you're right, I've seen children in there and I wouldn't have wanted my little B to go through that with so little chance of seeing the other side.

Did I ever say that we were advised to terminate? I suppose that I want to say that because it means that we didn't make such an awful decision on our own and that someone else bears some responsibility in a way. Ultimately the decision was ours and it was my signature on the consent form which is why I think I'm beating myself up about it. I have thought since that I should have asked my husband to countersign.

Sorry, little ramble today. X

lemonlymon Thu 17-May-12 10:46:36

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Firsttobed Thu 17-May-12 13:41:35

Lemonlymon - I saw your post before it was withdrawn and had started to reply which I now won't finish. Thank you for your kind words. Thinking of you.

orion3 Thu 17-May-12 16:46:33

miasmummy I hope everything went okay today with the review.
I loved your post about us honouring our children. I have shed lots of liquid love today.xx

chipmonkey Thu 17-May-12 18:07:38

Thinking of you, Mias xx

Tamisara Thu 17-May-12 18:54:19

miasmummy I really hope that today went as well/peacefully, as can be expected xx

firsttobed Please don't beat yourself up (((hugs))). Life is so uncertain. Your love for B shines through your words. You know you did the right/only thing you could have done. How terribly unfair for you xx

It's awful how many new names on here there are, how many precious children that have been lost sad

6 months exactly since Tamsin's funeral, today. DS thought it was weird that I counted months, he thought that it should be years that count. Bless him, he is good though, and I spent some time with him alone today, which was lovely. He was anxious to see his little sister though. I'm so sad that he never got to know his youngest sister.

Love to everyone xx

ok, millionth go at writing this. Stupid unpredictable broadband!!

chip, first, orion and tami thank you for your thoughts today. The pre-inquest review was better than I expected, although we are both drained. DH even stayed home from work afterwards and slept for four hours this afternoon, which he never does. Result - Mia's inquest will be held over four days in October, and lots of witnesses will be called, and the coroner has opened the option for us to provide our own independent reports if we want. So the first step is over.

first - an inquest has to be done because Mia died so unexpectedly, and so quickly. We took her to A&E at 7.30 in the evening, which was closed(!), were diverted to a 24-hours clinic, and then sent to a paediatric ward by 10pm. She died 5.5 hours later... which should not occur with a seemingly healthy child.

We attended a local bereavement group tonight for parents, and were impressed at the distances that some people travel to come along. Such a range of sad stories - but everyone was very welcoming and kind, and allowed us to share Mia's story. I am so glad we finally went along, as I feel that DH hasn't a huge amount of support, whereas I have plenty in RL and you lovely people here. More importantly, DH found it useful, and I think he appreciated that there were other bereaved fathers there too.

chipmonkey Thu 17-May-12 23:22:33

Sorry, my last post was very short. I was in work all day and started to post a couple of times and then had to go.

First, for medical staff to advise a termination means that there would be very little chance that that baby will have any kind of quality of life. They see babies who struggle all the time and the struggle the parents have to go through, only for the eventual outcome to be exactly the same as if the baby was allowed to go to sleep. I always remember watching a documentary here in Ireland about babies in NICU. Bear in mind, here if you want to terminate, you have to travel to the UK, no matter what the reason. One of the babies was a little boy who was very ill and needed lots of intervention. He died in NICU and never came home. His Mum was interviewed afterwards and I think her words were "It was very nice for us to have him for a little while but I don't know how nice it was for him."

And the form? There are always forms that have to be filled out. At the end of the day, it doesn't matter that it was your signature, you came to the decision together and you were representing your dh as well, when you signed that form.

chipmonkey Thu 17-May-12 23:25:56

Cross posts Mias!

What a day you had! But at least you can start getting ready for the inquest. I'm glad your dh found the group useful too. My dh doesn't really like group sessions and doesn't have much in the way of support apart from me.

MrsY Fri 18-May-12 00:34:24

Hugs Tami, milestone days are so much tougher than normal days.

Mias, have been thinking of you today, glad things went as well (?) as they did - will you be doing your own reports? We are planning on going to the local SANDS groups' peer support evening, just to see how it goes. I'm glad you and your DH both found it useful. I've asked J if he wants one-to-one as well, and he's not sure, but my theory is to get as much support as possible, at least to try it and see how it works.

Have had a tough day today, felt like every smile was forced, and was really clutching at straws to say focused and engaged. Then we went to our three year old's nursery parents evening. Hey key worker said she is 'perfect', a total joy to look after, polite, kind and happy. She has the langauge skills of a six year old and is the most advanced child in the key worker's group (and she's the youngest). She's never had to tell her off, and said she can rely on her to behave when the others are out of control! I'm so proud of our girl. Especially with what's she been through over the last month.

Quite proud of us too, for raising such a perfect child! grin. Have an epically busy day tomorrow, so off to bed now. Hope you all have a good weekend. x

chipmonkey Fri 18-May-12 01:00:33

Well done to your dd, MrsY!smile

orion3 Fri 18-May-12 08:30:56

miasmummy no wonder you're drained. It must've been a very emotional meeting. I hope you can have a relaxing weekend.

MrsY well done to you and your dd.

chipmonkey Sat 19-May-12 10:56:43

Morning ladiesxx

MrsY Sat 19-May-12 11:00:18

Morning chip and everyon else.

MIL has just collected the Mouse. Off for a short soak and then spending the afternoon with my mum. Hope everyone has a good day. xxx

Hi ladies smile Just checking in as back from a lovely holiday. Although center parcs is baby central, lots of lots of babies around Erin's should have been age was hard at times.

Mias sounds like you've had a draining week. How are feeling physically? I hope you are taking good care.

MrsY smile good on your DD. Kids are amazingly resilient aren't they. I'm constantly amazed by K.

Waves Chip Everlong and Tami - how are you?

Love to all. Hope everyone is okay - must go and unpack!! xx

chipmonkey Sat 19-May-12 20:52:43

Welcome back, Whatever!smile Glad you had a nice time, I find Centerparcs so relaxing and I really would love if they opened one in Ireland. When we last went there the girl in the Aqua Sana told me there were plans for one in Ireland but I think in the current climate they have probably scrapped the idea.sad#
And I know, it is so hard seeing babies around our babies' age. The other day, I arranged an appointment for a six month old baby to see me. Can't say her name on here but it's Something-Rose. I cooed at her like you do and afterwards wondered where I found the strength.

Tomorrow is cemeter day in our parish so I have been tidying up Sylvie-Rose's garden. A lot of the ornaments have faded in the sunlight. I think there is a spray you can get to prevent that but don't know where to get it.

chipmonkey Sun 20-May-12 16:22:24

Afternoon, all xx

everlong Sun 20-May-12 19:15:12

Hello whatever glad you had a lovely holiday, you deserve it smile bet the bump is coming on nicely now?

Hello to all the new ladies and everyone else, hope you're all ok. Xxx

Hello all. Busy weekend, but felt I achieved a lot. Planted up a huge garden bed yesterday, cleaned my car,had friends over for lunch today and even hand made bread from scratch. Now if only I could sleep past 6am...

Still no broadband - and now no landline either. Relying on my iPhone is ok, but limiting. BT is coming on Tuesday, I really hope it is sorted then.

blue I am now 11 weeks, scan booked for next week. There's been some confusion about my blood tests, but that is all sorted now. Just nervous. Lots of nausea still, although it is mainly early morning and the evening, instead of all day, which is an improvement.wink

tami so sorry to hear you had a hard week this week. Hoping things improve.

whatever glad to hear you had a good break! Nice to have you back though. smile

Sorry, realise my brain and phone can't remember all recent posts..

mrs Y we have already submitted our own witness statements, but will probably also submit an independent expert report, which has some different conclusions to those previously sought.

chip I'm sure you have made Sylvie-Rose's grave look beautiful. O just wish you could be buying her new toys rather than ornaments instead...

Orion as per my last post, not sure it's been a quiet weekend, but all the activity wad enjoyable!

Firsttobed Sun 20-May-12 22:57:07

Tami and chip thanks and chip, I bet Sylvie-Rose's garden is lovely. Sorry for not replying sooner, have been out of action for a couple of days.

Mia's I'm glad that Friday went ok, I was thinking of you.

MrsY well done to your dd.

Hope everyone is ok and here's to a week of beautiful weather to sit and remember our little ones.

chipmonkey Sun 20-May-12 23:25:00

Cemetery day went quite well apart from ds2 neediing the loo in the middle of the prayers! It's an odd kind of day. Now, I know this is probably a very Irish thing but most parishes in Ireland have a day when the graves are blessed. They hold a Mass in the cemetery itself. Everyone who has buried a loved one makes the grave look pretty and you stand by your loved one's grave while the prayers are taking place.

In my Mum's parish, where my Dad is buried, this is a day-long event, they have the prayers at noon, then a field day with amusements, sports and a barbecue/sandwiches. I had been expecting the same here but no, they hold it at 5.00pm and everyone just leaves afterwards.

Mias, hope you get your broadband back soon! At the moment I am on dh's old laptop as our second computer crashed a couple of weeks ago and dh is always using the first one. I so want the proper computer back!

chipmonkey Mon 21-May-12 10:09:53

Morning all! xx

Hello chip and everyone else. Had a very vivid dream this morning, I was on a boat journey and I was quite distressed as other people were looking after my little baby girl for me. I just remember worrying if we would get there safely... Fears about this pregnancy perhaps?!?

MrsY Mon 21-May-12 18:34:16

Possibly, Mias, totally understandable. I'm sure everything will be fine, pregnancy does weird things to dreams. I don't know any details of Mia' death, is it something that can re-occur?

We had our six week check up and it seemed to mostly be about how to avoid the same thing happening again is we were to have another. I know the circumstances are different, but all the medical staff will be so aware of what happened and do all they can for you.

Sound like you had a busy weekend - make sure you rest. I hate having broadband issues, fc BT sorts you out tomorrow.

Hey chip, I'm sure Sylvie-Rose's grave looks lovely and well cared for. Did you expect more of an event yesterday? We're looking at options for the gravestone etc. at the moment. May I ask you what you chose?

Having an ok day today, busy busy catching up on housework after a slovenly weekend!

chipmonkey Mon 21-May-12 19:12:02

We don't have a headstone for Sylvie-Rose as yet. Here it's traditional to wait a year, I think it used to be to let the ground "settle" but I spoke to a guy who does monuments and he said it can be done any time. What we will be getting, I think, is a white granite headstone carved into a teddy shape and with pink lettering and an engraved rose. I fear the white granite will be hard to source but I saw it on another MNers baby dd's headstone and it's what I really want.

Mias, just weird pregnancy dreams! And you are probably feeling that Mia is being looked after by other people, perhaps? And projecting that on to the new baby.

I dreamt that I was looking at a door with Sylvie-Rose's name on it. There was a note on the door that said
"Gone out. Back in three years" Strange!

MrsY Mon 21-May-12 23:15:12

Ah, that sounds lovely, chip. I think we're going with slate, but it's hard to know which stone will whether best. I've googled it loads!

I've seen one sweet one which was shaped like a pebble, but we need to leave enough space for our names to be added when necessary, because we got an adult plot.

We've been told to wait a couple of months, and the guy we want to use has a waiting list of a few months anyway, so we really need to make a decision soon.

chipmonkey Tue 22-May-12 01:35:38

Most headstones in our cemetery, or at least most of the new ones are granite. In th older part of the cemetery, there's a lot of marble but I don't think it's weathered as well.

MrsY Tue 22-May-12 08:39:12

Yes, I think the majority of new headstones are granite, but that has to be sandblasted rather then hand carved, so isn't suitable for what we would like. My taste is pretty classic, and I love the old stones. We're going for quite a simple and clean look, I find the granite and marble ones a bit too shiny and sparkly. I think it comes of growing up going to church where all the headstones were very traditional even the modern ones had to be portland stone or similar. I'd never seen any of the modern ones until we visited the cemetery Benedict is in for the first time.

Part of me is a bit worried that what we want isn't suitable for a baby, but it's what we want so I don't really care what other people think. Plus, MrY and I will have to be added in the future, and it'd be daft to have us as (hopefully) old fogeys on a teddy or something!

Morning all. Popping my head in, it's been a while but we still have decorators in at the moment and haven't been able to get to pcs. On my phone now so can't post properly. Third week they've been here. School run in a min but I'm hoping to get back on pc or netbook today so I can catch up properly. X

chipmonkey Tue 22-May-12 10:13:46

<<<Waves to Cheese>>>>

MrsY, Sylvie-Rose is in the centre of our double plot so we plan to put a small teddy in the centre and then a new stone to either side for me and dh when the time comes.

MrsY Tue 22-May-12 12:41:12

Oh, that's a lovely plan, chip. We're not allowed to buy plots in advance, otherwise that's what we would have done. I'm not overly keen on the idea of cremation, but that's what we'll have to do to be with him.

Hi Cheese! Hope the house isn't in too much chaos!

frasersmummy Tue 22-May-12 14:37:26

Hey everyone

Whats happening with the thread.. did Sassy's appearance scare more than just me away ???

We seem to be missing a lot of the "old regulars" I am thinking of people like shabba, travelling wilbury, ilike, woolyjo, lottie etc..

I know there are a lot more missing but didnt want it to be like I was taking a register.. wink

Its just we seem to have lost all the people who have moved beyond the early stages of grief who could help those at the beginning of this sad sad journey and it s a real shame

I hope a lot of my friends havent been scared off by trolls

I notice even Tami has gone very quiet recently ...

zeno Tue 22-May-12 14:45:48

Hi fm. I stopped posting after the deletion frenzy. Having bared some of my soul and written down what happened, having it and all the responses summarily deleted felt horrible.

Sadly, I do not trust Mnhq to look after the shop well enough.

chipmonkey Tue 22-May-12 14:58:09

fm, it is very quiet and I'm sure Sassy's appearance did scare most of the "oldies" off. I know people aren't obliged to post here but it does help if someone whose grief is less new and raw posts, it makes you realise that you can survive this. I really do believe that the vast majority of posters here are genuine and tbh the idea of anyone trolling here is horrible, total breach of trust.
Tami was having laptop problems but I thought she was getting it fixed. She hasn't been on FB much either and seemed very down the last time she posted there. I hope she's OK.

It has been quiet fm Shabs, tw and Caz haven't posted since I don't think. I've been posting a bit less as I feel a bit awkward talking about this pregnancy on here, don't want to be insensitive. How have you been fm?

Can't believe 25th May is fast approaching which will be 9 months. Feeling a bit overwhelmed with everything at the moment.

orion3 Tue 22-May-12 20:38:33

Please can someone stop me from looking up anomaly scan horror stories??
I don't know why I'm doing it but my scan is next week and I've decided to freak myself out!
I need to put something terrible on tv and stop.

orion3 Tue 22-May-12 20:45:29

Sorry I posted this in the wrong place. Feel free to recommend crap tv shows though, I need to steer clear of great ormond street on bbc2. I'm compelled to watch it every week and I'm in bits at the end.

I can't make you stop Orion but I can tell you to step away smile It won't help you (but you know that anyway) I was a nervous wreck before the anomaly scan, it's totally normal and understandable. About ten minutes in to it the sonographer said 'you can breathe you know'! A few things that helped me were -

- Making the sonographer aware as soon as we went in exactly why I was so anxious
- I asked her to look at the chest/diaphragm area first as that was my biggest area of concern. Perhaps you could ask them to do the heart first? Might make you feel easier about the rest of the scan?
- I asked tons of questions and got her to tell me very clearly several times that various things looked normal
- Arrive right near your appt time so you're hopefully not hanging round waiting too long
- Don't plan anything afterwards - I went straight to a work meeting but felt completely wrung out and exhausted after. I think the relief catches up with you
- Keep telling yourself that in most cases everything is fine - it's so easy to forget that when you've been on the wrong side of the statistics I know.

I totally understand my friend and will be here virtually holding your hand. What day is it next week? Don't whatever you do be as stupid as I was yesterday and think you will be okay to go on your own! Is dh able to go with you? Are you going to ask girl or boy? xx

orion3 Tue 22-May-12 21:06:50

Thanks whatever The scan is next Monday and dh is coming too. I have a day due to me at work so I'm taking the whole day off.
I have a cardiac scan two weeks later but I hope they'll look at the heart during the anomaly scan too.
going to try to find out the sex but not sure how I'll feel either way.

thanks whatever, good advice...

fm I hadn't really thought why people left the thread, but I guess your feeling is right. It makes me mad that both you and zeno felt betrayed and therefore couldn't post, especially if before that, you had found this a useful support. I know that I found the advice of others like you here incredibly helpful, as sometimes I really couldn't (and sometimes still can't) envisage a path forward in my life without my gorgeous Mia.

It is sad that there are so many newer faces here, but I hope that we can continue help you, and each other, in whatever way we can. That generosity of spirit is what makes this thread special.

Good afternoon.

I have been lurking for the last 5 weeks or so because I felt uneasy on the thread. I felt that something was 'very wrong.' BUT lurking and not posting is not doing my blood pressure any good at all. This thread was started over 5 years ago and I had posted every day since it was set up. Hope some of my fellow 'oldies' will return as well.

Glad you are back Shabs smile

lavandes Thu 24-May-12 15:01:34

Good afternoon ladies xx

Well done Shabs, may we all continue to give eachother help and strength whenever we can. xx smile

Lavandes....this time I will not be keeping my mouth closed when I have questions - you have been warned LOL grin

lavandes Thu 24-May-12 15:41:20

Waves to Shabs from behind the settee shock x

Tamisara Thu 24-May-12 18:27:14

FM I'm still here <waves madly> but have been mainly lurking on S&B. I've had a lot of 6 month anniversaries recently, which hit me hard, but they're all over now. Can't believe that it's been over half-a-year.

Chip The laptop is all fixed, was the same week, but haven't wanted to come here (see above). Thank you btw xx

MrsY I've not even considered a gravestone yet. There were none in the baby section, where Tamsin is buried, until a couple of weeks ago. I guess I need to think about it now.

Hi to everyone. I've taken DD1 out loads this week (in this lovely sunshine). It is her second birthday soon, and I don't know how to celebrate it tbh. I ^know we should have a party, and maybe invite some toddler group friends, but my heart isn't in it. Last year she had a big birthday, and I was so looking forward to this one, and having another little one crawling around sad

frasersmummy Thu 24-May-12 20:09:17

Hey Shabs who you calling old????

I am here .. I agree there is something odd about this thread.. not sure I can put my finger on it.. but there is something odd..

however to walk away would be soo wrong

I had nowhere to talk about my lovely first born son till feedmenow very bravely posted about her little Eris

I would hate to see the thread implode or just die a natural death.. to me this this is Eris's legacy

I am sure feedmenow would rather Eris's legacy was the cure for cancer or something equally bold but at least something nice came out of feedmenow's heartache and I think it would be a tragedy if we walked away

so here I am ..

Agree with every word of your post FM....there was nowhere before on MN that was as special as this thread. We are not just 'oldies' but I reckon we are 'mouldy oldies' grin well you are grin grin

<<ducks the flying shoe that FM chucks at her>>

lavandes Thu 24-May-12 20:43:51

This thread saved my sanity when we lost Richard. I had no-one who really understood. I will never forget the love and support I have had from all the lovely mums here. So I will be here to help if I can. ccc

frasersmummy Thu 24-May-12 20:50:34

didnt take you long to feel comfortable again did it ??? wink

travellingwilbury Thu 24-May-12 21:06:26

Room for a wee one ?

I have been hiding too but I have been reading and worrying and thinking of you all x

I agree about the weirdness but now we can all get back to doing what we do best .

Sometimes being a hand to good and sometimes being the hand that passes the wine x

chipmonkey Thu 24-May-12 22:04:49

Speaking of which! winewinewine and I'm so very glad to see you all back!grin

Finally got the lap top back smile bloody Tom has an amazing Mac PC in his bedroom but he takes over this crappy lap top every night and sits downstairs with me - scared of missing anything my Mum used to say. Its sooooo hot here tonight...got a sweaty moustache and everything x

chipmonkey Thu 24-May-12 22:17:33

Fetching image, there shabs!wink

chipmonkey Thu 24-May-12 22:20:53

Did you all know that most babies survive being born prem? Pearl of wisdom today from a dhac. Oh, and that it's the parents' choice when a baby is being discharged. Funny, didn't feel like it was my choice when I was being bundled out the door with my tiny little girl.

frasersmummy Thu 24-May-12 22:31:13

whats a dhac???

and how does that statistic tie in with 17 kids being stillborn or dying within the first few moments of birth every day in the uk alone???

Sorry to trot that stat out again but I think it should be headline news..

chipmonkey Thu 24-May-12 22:33:20

Don't Have a Clue, frasers. Just a client in work and I'm not sure if she thought she was being helpful!

Tamisara Thu 24-May-12 22:35:13

chip little 'pearls of wisdom' like that, should be kept in the mind of the dhac, I'm so sorry you encountered that (((hugs))) xx

FM dhac = 'don't have a clue', people we've all (unfortunately) encountered.

Tamisara Thu 24-May-12 22:37:45

chip even if she was trying to help, she didn't, maybe she would be wise to learn this -

“It is better to be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt” xx

chipmonkey Thu 24-May-12 22:41:29

the thing is, she is actually very nice! A very sweet person who, from what I know, goes out of her way to help others. Just don't think tact is her thing!

People said stuff to me like 'if your DS3 had survived that accident he would have had no quality of life' and 'your DTwinS has no more suffering to go through.' At least those people voiced their feelings to me. At least they had thought about it. People who have not lost a child are both very lucky and blessed AND obviously clueless. Why would they know what to say? I know that to us it is annoying but at least they have thought about it. I think that is a time to nod and smile at them.

chipmonkey Fri 25-May-12 00:26:23

shabs, someone said that to me about Sylvie-Rose, that had she survived she would have been a "vegetable". This was the same lady that "understood" because her dog died! I think she may have been one of the ones who hadn't thought about it! Thing is, I would take whatever form of Sylvie-Rose there was. I have a cousin with a severely disabled child. Taking care of him takes up her whole life. But she dreads, dreads, dreads that he might be taken from her. Your child is your child.

9 months today since our world fell apart. Feels like yesterday. Think today is going to be one of those days where it hurts a lot. We love you and miss you every day baby Erin xxxx

Tamisara Fri 25-May-12 09:13:10

Whatever Huge (((hugs))). Thinking of you & beautiful Erin xx

chipmonkey Fri 25-May-12 09:57:08

<<HUGS>> Whatever xx Remembering Erin


Whatever - thinking about you today. x

orion3 Fri 25-May-12 16:23:43

whatever I hope you're okay. Thinking about you and Erin today.

ladies, I had a very surreal experience last night.
I was at a friends house and she was having a pamper party. I had my nails done and as the beautician was doing them we were talking about how small our city is and how everyone knows everyone else. She start to tell me this story of how she was giving a lady a massage one day after the funeral of a wee boy who lived around here and she found out later that her sister in law was at the same funeral. She even looked up at me and said "you probably heard about it, his parents were teachers."
I held it together but my heart was racing. I didn't tell her and I went into the next room and whispered that nobody should mention it was me if she brought it up with them.

lavandes Fri 25-May-12 17:34:25

Hi ladies x

Thinking of you and your family today whatever these anniversary days are so difficult xx

Firsttobed Fri 25-May-12 17:58:00

Hello everyone, what a beautiful day. Mind you very windy here.

Whatever - I'm feeling for you today. Have minimal experience of anniversaries but found the first month hard enough. I hope that you are getting through it ok and peacefully x

Thank you ladies. Strangely I have found 3, 6 and 9 months to be the hardest ones. I think today was hard as I feel like she's now been gone for as long as she was 'here'. Spent some time tidying her grave today so pleased that is looking a bit better after the awful weather.

Orion that does sound very surreal. It's strange isn't it to hear 'your story' from another perspective

Hope everyone else is doing okay. Sunny weather weekend plans? I'm at my best friends hen do all weekend - i've organised it so hope it goes well! Ironically it was supposed to be this time last year but they postponed the wedding; I remember my friend saying - at least next year you'll be able to have a few drinks!

Whatever My friend, Nikos, lost his brother a few years ago. In Greece when someone has died they have a special Mass service for them at 3, 6, 9 and 12 months. I was there on holiday when it was the 3 month service and he asked if I would go. Even though the service was conducted totally in Greek and I was the only English person there I 'knew' what they were saying IYKWIM.

That sounds like a good way to celebrate a loved one Shabs. We are still so closed in about grief/bereavement in this country.

Nikos' family find it hard to talk to people outside the family about it. Even when they speak English well. In the church the men sit on one side and the women on the other. When I walked in with him it all went quiet and the word spread quickly around. His Mum turned around and saw me and hugged me....she speaks no English at all so our conversations were all with signs and names. After the service everybody came outside and we could hear his Mum screaming in the church and shouting his name BUT nobody went to comfort her at all. Their ways are different from ours but I found that really weird. xxx

chipmonkey Fri 25-May-12 21:16:05

Here in Ireland it's traditional to have a "months mind" but then nothing till the actual anniversary. We didn't have a months mind for Sylvie-Rose, tbh, I didn't want the same raucous crowd turning up again. Funerals tend to be a bit jolly here but I found it strange that people were as jolly for Sylvie-Rose as they would have been for an old relative that died. One of my cousin's wives was telling jokes and it just seemed wrong.

They have put up a headstone for the baby boy at the end of Sylvie-Rose's row in the cemetery. I'm glad because now I know his name. Before there wasn't a cross or anything to say anything about him. I know this is possibly odd of me but I tend to greet the other people buried there by name as I passed their graves and I didn't like just calling him "baby"

fioled Fri 25-May-12 21:59:02

Ah I'll come out of the woodwork aswell. I've been on the 'odd' fence too. Nice to see the oldies. <<gives a wave to Shab, TW and FM>> xxx

Hello all. Hope things are ok...

whatever I totally hear you on the import of the none month date for Erin. Your beautiful girl. It seems so impossible, doesn't it? Yet somehow, we integrate this terrible knowledge into ourselves, and that love will never diminish, but only grow stronger. xx

hello back to everyone, nice to have you here again.

It's just so bloody hard isn't it Mias. Tonight for the first time I feel really angry about it all, angry that it happened to us, angry that she's not here, angry that everyone else seems to get to keep their babies. I'm tired of it. I'm sick of everything being an effort. I'm really bloody angry!!

MrsY Sat 26-May-12 00:40:22

whatever big hugs to you, hope you found it useful to tidy her grave earlier. Sorry you've had an angry day - it's so tiring, but it's totally understandable, we shouldn't all be here. I've had a few angry days myself recently. Seems I can hold onto the anger easily more than the sadness.

Hi to all the faces I've not met here before. Not sure what happened but I hope you can all settle back into the thread and get the comfort you need.

I just can't get used to the empty feeling. I hate thinking of all the things I'm supposed to be doing now; the day to day stuff and the big things. It was a friends wedding today, and we were invited to the evening do. We were going to take our boy along and show him off. We didn't go in the end. I can't get all the 'firsts' out of my head. It's not so bad during the day, but at night it all goes round in my head and I don't know how I'll cope with this for the rest of my life.

Mrs Y Hello....I am so glad to say that I helped to start this thread off about 5 years ago. I lost 2 sons....delighted to say that I had 4 sons though. Lost one of my twin boys and then 10 years later my third son was killed. So I should have 30 year old twin boys, one ds coming up to being 28 years old and my fourth son almost 15...where, In real life I have a 30 year old firstborn and a almost 15 year old DS4....its beyond hard. So very difficult...but we all have to carry on...'ONE FOOT IN FRONT OF THE OTHER AND DONT FORGET TO BREATHE'

frasersmummy Sat 26-May-12 18:22:20

I remember counting the weeks from we lost fraser and then the months .. for me it lasted about 2 years and then it became years going by..at first time passes really slowly and then before you know it its been several years and you dont know how it happened ...our first little boy was stillborn 8 years ago.. where did the years go ..seriously how could he be 8??

I have had a really weird day ... hubby has not been very well for a few days and today we were worried and he went to the out of hours service who said a&e ..they considered admitting him but they gave hime anto-biotics via iv and sent him home with tablets.. I feel like I have been thru the mill

chipmonkey Sat 26-May-12 18:33:12

Poor you and poor dh, fm! I hope the AB's do the trick. And have some wine

MrsY Sat 26-May-12 19:55:14

Hope your dh feels better soon, fm, and you both get a good rest tonight.

Mechavivzilla Sat 26-May-12 20:50:00

Tentitively dipping my toe in here, hello everyone.

I lost my baby boy Dexter on May the 12th at 12 days old and I am struggiling to cope. He was born at 24 + 2 weeks so we knew he had a tough road ahead. However he had been fighting hard and doing so well until he picked up a lung infection that was just too much for him to cope with.

I hurt all the time and I don't know what to do.

frasersmummy Sat 26-May-12 21:02:03

mrs y..nights can be the worst.. I dont know if you like these kinda things

but I have used night time kalms.. they dont make you tired as such but they do switch your brain off.. making it easier to sleep.. they are herbal and non addictive..might be worth a go for a little while anyway

My little boy was stillborn in april 2004 and you wont feel like this for the rest of your life.. you never forget but one day you will be able to smile again and actually (Iknow you dont believe me) you will plan for and even look forward to the future.

until then come give us your hand we will try to help you take your first few steps on this terrible road
and as the cheeky beggar lovely shabs would say .. one foot in front of the other and dont forget to breathe

MrsY Sat 26-May-12 23:23:59

I'm just really struggling to find the joy and happiness at the moment. His life just seems to equal sadness and pain. I'm trusting that you're right, fm, it's one of the few things keeping me going.

Welcome to the thread, so sorry for your loss. Mechavivzilla, Dexter is such a lovely name. I hope you can get some comfort from knowing you're not walking this road alone.

Oh my Matts favourite girlfriend, at primary school, has a little boy called Dexter.....You are right FM - it wont feel like this forever I can promise all of you that. As time passes you kind of learn how to pin on the fake smile....I promise all of you that it does get better xxxxxxxxxx

Firsttobed Sun 27-May-12 08:57:10

Yes hello oldies and thank you for sharing with us newer people. You give me hope that one day I too will be in a peaceful place with little B.

Welcome mechavivzilla and I'm sorry you've found yourself here. I remember your thread about your little Dexter and your love for him shines through.

Six weeks today. Shared my story with an old friend last night, I find it cathartic to talk about him and the whole thing. However now I feel emotionally drained and want to shut myself off from the world again. I know it's all going to take time but I'm longing for the time that it becomes easier.

orion3 Sun 27-May-12 09:15:57

good morning all.

mrsy and firsttobed I know how you feel, I'm still in deep grief for my loss but after 5 months I don't feel like I did in the first few weeks. One of the things that gives me hope is reading blogs and books from people who are much further along than us. Lots of people do have joy in their lives again but it takes time and our children will never leave us.

The lovely teachers from Jude's school are running the Edinburgh marathon in his memory today. heave raised over two thousand pounds for the Sick Kids Hospital. it's so lovely when people remember our boy.x

lavandes Mon 28-May-12 08:01:04

Morning ladies xx

Hi to all the new Mums I am so sorry you need to be here but we all try to support eachother. Only a bereaved mother can fully understand.

My son died suddenly in April 2010. It was such a huge shock that I thought I would be in pieces for ever. But as the other Mums have said it does get easier little by little. Of course it will never go away and I miss him every minute, but I think I am gradually getting used to it. There are still bad days but not so many. Grief is totally exhausting so you must look after yourselves and take one day at a time. We spent a great day yesterday with our grandsons. I try to make the most of good days and enjoy them. It is ok to do this. You mustn't feel guilty if you have 'good days' none of this is your fault, you have been thrown into this. Hope this makes sense. Keep posting xxx

Morning girls xx

Makes total sense Lavandes.

Could I ask you all to think about a fellow Mumsnetter today? Estar always used to post on the multiple births thread. She has 5 children (including a set of twins) One of the twins died last week - he was 8. We are all devastated for her on the multiple births thread - I have met her in real life and she is a lovely lady. It is his funeral today sad I am going to light a candle for her and to honour her precious son. I wish I could do more and I also wish I could take away her pain, but, as we all know thats not possible. She has a great nickname for him....so fly high 'Scooby' you will be so sadly missed. Look out for my lads they will look after you. xxxxxx

lavandes Mon 28-May-12 09:13:13

Pease pass on my love to Estar Shabs. I will light a candle for her and her family in memory of Scooby. So very sad. I like to think that our Richard is keeping an eye on all the little ones. He was such a good dad. xx

Mechavivzilla Mon 28-May-12 13:52:36

Thinking about poor Estar and her Scooby. No one should have to go through this.

MrsY Mon 28-May-12 13:55:57

Oh, gosh, how sad. Thoughts and prayers with Estar, Scooby and all their family. xxx

lavandes, so nice to think that our lovely children are being watched over by your son. x