Advice needed from survivours of profoundly dysfunctional families - what to do when a parent is terminally ill?

[Earlybird]

Mum is a classic toxic parent, and is now terminally ill. She'll probably live another month. My sisters (who have a completely different relationship with her) are visiting daily. I saw Mum two weeks ago, but have fibbed that I have the tummy bug so can't drive down this weekend.

I feel guilty/upset at not seeing her, but can't bear to visit either as almost every time I see her, I'm shaken to the core.

I need advice about how to emerge from this intact please.

[Heathcliffscathy]

go often enough not to carry guilt when she goes, but stay a very short while and go not more often than that. so if that means you see her once more so be it.

guilt is resentment turned inward....go if you think YOU will feel remorse for not having gone when she dies. don't go if you're worried what anyone else (including her) will think.

do it for you. if it f&cks your head to see her, don't put yourself through it loads just to keep appearances up.

[ally90]

Read your posts before Earlybird, I don't feel I can say anything, I do have a toxic family but not experienced this.

Have you any self help books? Divorce a Parent by Beverly Engel has some pages on ill/dying parents. I'll try to dig it out for you. Really feel for you, its a brave decision to go back into contact with her. But did you do it for her or for yourself? You are not a bad person for cutting her out of your life. 50% of the relationship was her responsibility and I would say in your childhood it was 100% her responsibility. It takes a lot to turn your own child against you. And there will be so much you probably don't remember from your earliest days as a baby.

I'll try to get back on tomorrow.

For the mean time, perhaps your car has broken down?

[Earlybird]

Ah, thanks to you both. It's comforting to be helped and listened to.

The entire toxic situation is compounded enormously by the fact that Mum began drinking heavily after I left home and for the past 20 years has been (correctly) classed an alcoholic.

Of course, Mum remembers very little of what happened between us, and anyway has her own version of events that is very different to mine.

Due to the pain from cancer, she is increasingly medicated and when awake is often paranoid and angry. She hit my sister yesterday (this sister is her favourite child), and yelled at the hospice worker so behaviour is poisonous atm and not likely to get better.

I've looked for the 'Divorcing a Parent' book, but it appears out of print, with only 'used' copies available at greatly inflated prices. My local library doesn't have it either - so any gems you can pull from it and relay here would be greatly appreciated ally90.

I am holding so much tension in my body atm. I feel as if I have falled down a set of stairs, or been in a car accident.

[Domesticgodless]

do you feel in your heart that you will regret not having said goodbye?

if so then go.

[Heathcliffscathy]

earlybird get thee to a psychotherapist (and i never say this for fear of being told i'm trying to make money for profession ;) )

you absolutely need support through this. you're not in london any more are you. you need support, professional support through what will and is an inevitably huge time for you and for your family.

[Heathcliffscathy]

actually that's a great idea:

go, now, once, and say goodbye.

and don't go back.

[Earlybird]

The problem is, I'm miserable if I go see her, and wracked with guilt if I don't. After so many years and so much damage, realistically nothing will get 'fixed' between us now. It's all horribly sad.

Sophable - yes, you are right and I have been in regular psychotherapy for a looonnnggg time (years). She's London based, and we have been having phone sessions since I moved to America this past summer. Analyst stepped out of her professional role a few days ago, and almost yelled at me that I should NOT visit as it is far too negative/destructive for me. She also asked me to facilitate a conference with a local doctor as she thinks I need anti-depressants. That in itself is shocking.

[Domesticgodless]

bit at your analyst Eb

You can go, and say goodbye, not expecting anything positive to come of it for you- other than that you will have acknowledged & bid farewell to your relationship with her as a living person, in all its deep imperfection. It might (or might not) achieve closure of an emotional chapter for you, although of course your relationship will not end with her death. At least by going to see her you give something positive for you a chance to happen.

If you set out and feel an urge to turn back, you know it is wrong for you at a very visceral level to see her.

[Heathcliffscathy]

it has just occurred to me earlybird, that what you need, more than anything is to let go and be let go of. and if you hang on to guilt after she has died, that you didn't go to see her, that is a way of NOT letting go of her and of the idea that she will ever be the mother than you deserved and wanted.

i'd brave it, go for 5 minutes and say goodbye, regardless of if she is chucking things at you and then leave, knowing you YOU are letting go.

[Earlybird]

I don't know how I feel at the moment, other than confused, upset and hurting.

Everything about her makes me question myself and doubt my instincts. It's virtually impossible to know what I need in this situation vs what I should do.

I have no idea if I'll regret it if I don't go. She's been a destructive force in my life, and her legacy stands over me even now casting a dark shadow. Sounds overly dramatic perhaps, but sadly is true.

When you all say 'go say goodbye' - are you literally suggesting I say those words? I'm having a hard time imagining a final scenario that could potentially provide me with peace/closure.

[Danae]

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[Danae]

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[Heathcliffscathy]

fantastic posts danae.

early, don't let this thread become a further pressure.

xxx

[smithfield]

earlybird- yes I think danae has given some great advise here. Im afraid I do not have the xperience to be of much help. But could I ask wether Danae has hit the nail on the head here?;

..'you are panicking at the end coming so soon and not knowing what to 'do' in the short time available. There may be more ways for you to deal with this than you at first perceive.'

It feels as though, from reading your posts, that your have much confusion over what 'you' want from this. This is understandable as all of us with toxic parents have learnt to become cut off from understanding what our needs are and how to meet them. let alone in times of immense stress and pressure such as this.
I think to just keep talking your thoughts through via this thread would be helpful.
The counselling sessions I thought were an excellent idea i.e getting the support for yourself you so need atm.
Also, have you thought of preparing a letter. I know this doesnt help with the visiting/short term issue, but maybe just the act for writing a parting letter may clarify your thoughts as to what you can and cant give to her right now.
I will also dig out my divorcing a parent book and have a look for you!
(((((hug)))))

[ally90]

Danae sounds like she knows what she's saying...quite shocked danae, you've been throught a lot more than you have said on the other thread.

Again, I have no experience of this. I read the appropriate bits in divorce a parent and there was about a chapter of possible use to you Earlybird, but enough so I can't type it all out in a short session.

I suppose I would possibly suggest going back to basics. A big sheet of paper and writing out any random thoughts and feelings or writing out what is in your head to get some clarity.

Sorry I never posted to you before now, I just, like now, feel at a complete loss.

Going back to what your therapist said, its not normal for them to actually burst out with their true feelings.

I suppose it boils down to, how do you want to leave it? Her passing away and nothing said or resolved or you taking the choice into your own hands and telling her 'I love you mum (?? if you do) but I cannot be around you to the end, you hurt me too much over the years and I cannot hurt myself by being around you any longer, I wish you peace. Goodbye.' Sorry if I'm out of order there, I will understand if I have gone too far. But if your therapist who hears what you have to say on a regular basis says leave her...but its got to be what you feel is best for you and your life.

Hope that is not too much for you to take in. Sorry if I have offended.

Please keep posting, someone (like Danae) maybe along soon with more sense/help.

xxxxxxx

[Danae]

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[ally90]

Hi Earlybird

Have you been to see your mother? Any update?
Hope your doing okay xxx

Danae, wow. Considering how you are with yourself at times that is an amazing thing to do...

[NAB3wishesfor2008]

TBH if it was my mum I wouldn't be going near her but we have no relationship.

What will be worse, going and feeling bad or not going and then never having said goodbye?

Sorry for your situation.

[foxinsocks]

I'm sorry earlybird . My mother too is on her last legs (although I've heard that so many times over my lifetime, I'm never sure whether to believe it).

I also wonder whether you still have an image of what she will be like in your head and when you see her, she's not that person iyswim. For some reason, even though I'm in my 30s now, I've never really given up hope of having a proper parent-child conversation with my parents but it will never happen. I think your feeling of wanting to have things 'fixed' feels very typical of a child of that sort of parent-child relationship. It's not your duty to fix anything though you may well feel it is.

I think what Danae said is very touching and that if you can't bring yourself to go and see her now, just talking to her after she's gone might be some way of 'getting out' what you need to release.

[buzzzybee]

Go see ur mum hun. I just lost my mum she was 48 i live over the road and saw her most days but if i could turn bk time i would have spent every day near all day with her! push urself and let her know ur ther x

[Danae]

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[Earlybird]

Thanks to all for your genuinely helpful posts.

I've felt very low the past few days - emotionally and physically (backache, lethargy, upset tummy and even sore/bloodshot eyes). I forced myself to go out yesterday afternoon/evening to a meeting arranged long ago. It was the last thing I wanted to do, and I seriously considered cancelling - but knew I was sinking staying by myself in the house. Just the act of showering/washing hair/applying makeup/wearing lovely clothes made me feel better. I needed a change of scenery and something to do that would take my mind off the situation.

Today, I feel much better. Dropped dd at school and went for a brisk 2 mile walk in the cold sunshine, as I thought some physical activity would help rather than another day sitting at home feeling increasingly upset.

I have not been to see Mum (it's a 4 hour drive). I am aware that while I have stopped dwelling on the situation, I am not dealing with it either.

I spoke to one of my sisters this morning, and Mum was better yesterday and the day before - though had moments of confusion/delusion (kept insisting we'd moved her into a new house, when she is in the place where she's been for 40 years).

I've called in a favour, and blagged my way onto a doctor's appointment books for Monday (new GP who has taken me on even though his patient roster is full). I'm hopeful he can help with some medication that may bring me some relief.

I've struggled so long to be free of my family and their crap, and now am faced with the prospect of being tortured by guilt if I don't somehow manage to spend time with my Mother. Logically, I know she's just a pitiful old lady who is very afraid, in pain, and slowly dying. But I've been making myself ill thinking about how to say goodbye.

Danae - the story you tell of rubbing lotion into someone's hands as a small gesture of comfort is profound. I've tried to imagine if I could do that for Mum. Other than the briefest hello/goodbye airkisses, I honestly don't recall every being touched by her in a loving/affectionate way. No hugs, no stroking of hair/back, no sitting in a lap, no touching a cheek - all the little things I do spontaneously with dd. I can't imagine touching her in a kind/gentle way. We don't touch.

Must dash now to collect dd, but wanted to reply to the thread and say once again a heartfelt thank you for giving me a place to be heard and comforted.

[Danae]

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[Pages]

Earlybird, there has been some excellent advice on here and I don't know if I can add anything to that except to say that I have experience of losing someone I was very close to and still feeling all the churned up/physical symptoms you are experiencing whilst in that limbo period when we knew death was imminent but she still wasn't gone. So I think some of the feelings you are experiencing may be a natural reaction to loss of someone who is an important person in your life whether your feelings towards her are straightforward or not. I was very churned up and burst into tears easily for the whole time she was ill and had very confusing emotions around her, including guilt at all the times I had been grumpy, taken her for granted etc and I don't think death is EVER straightforward.

A different experience... both my father and my grandmother died and I didn't visit either or say goodbye to either and also felt a lot of guilt over that with my father (but none with my gran because I didn't really know or have a relationship with her, neither did my mother or brothers but they all went trooping up to see her and I just didn't bother as I decided she couldn't be bothered with me when I was alive - still feel nothing about her at all)

The guilt with my father was because my last words to him had been angry ones (I slammed the phone down on him) and the next thing was he was in a coma and never came out of it. I had so many mixed emotions about him and the situation but I really did manage to find peace with it AFTER his death.

If you feel you really actually say the words "goodbye" then you could go one more (last time) and say them and leave. BUT I also don't believe that necessarily saying goodbye to her in person is the only way to do it. In a way, you have done it really haven't you? You have been to see her already, do you really need to go again?

I actually found my peace with my father at his graveside. I didn't visit it for 10 years because I couldn't face it but then went with DH who held my hand while I cried, stroked the grass over his grave and talked to him.

Maybe you need to stay away and make peace with her afterwards, in the funeral home as someone suggested or at the graveside, at a time when you feel safe with her?

[Earlybird]

Hello to all - things are progressing somewhat. I visited the GP today, and left with an anti-depressant prescription. I feel desperate for some relief from the anxiety and stress.

Had a phone session with psychotherapist today. Tell me - is there any professional reason why she might be running a photocopier and typing on a computer keyboard during our phone session? I asked about the background 'noises' and she said something about having 'pre-programmed' her photocopier (??), but never addressed why she was typing. The last thing I need atm is for my relationship/communication with her to be under strain too....