Discussing death with children

[luvshoes]

This might be a long one - sorry. Just found out about mumsnet and have seen some of the great advice posted. I wonder if you could give me advice on this. A very close family friend is dying and it seems that he may only have a few days or a couple of weeks left. This friend went to school with my DH and has a child of a similar age to my elder DD. We're currently living away from the area my DH grew up in so my girls have not seen our friend's last, rapid decline. We visit regularly and my girls are very fond of this friend, his partner and their child. My DH and I are wondering how to have a meaningful discussion with our DSs (four and two) when our friend passes away that lets them know what is going on but doesn't scare them silly at the same time. This is the first time since our children were born that someone close has died so we have never had reason to talk about death with them. We're a very open family and don't want to avoid the subject just because it is a difficult and painful one. I appreciate that the two year old may be too young to understand but our four year old will definitely notice when our friend is no longer around. Any advice would be great.

[Fio2]

I think you should explain even if they are too young. I think the more open about death you are from early on in childrens lives the less they are frightened of it.

[throckenholt]

My ds1 is 2years 8 months. Our next door neighbour has just died - DS1 was close to him. We talk about him a lot, say that he was very ill, and that he has died, and that we won't see him any more. We also have been to see the flowers on the grave (he was a railway worker and has a train made out of flowers, DS1 loves trains). He understands that our neighbour has died, and is buried near the flowers.

He seems to have taken it very well, and periodically brings it into the conversation - along the lines of "Donny (ds1's name for neighbour) has died. Donny's car has gone." He often goes on to say that Donny's wife hasn't died, that he hasn't died. He doesn't seem to be worried that anyone else has died or will die.

No advice - just our experience.

[stace]

definetely agree with being honest and open about death. My dad died 3 weeks after my ds was born and my mum 15months later. My son has (unfortunately) seen me go through a fair amount of emotional turmoil and although i found it very hard not to 'protect' him from my emotional pain i was advised strongly to let him see my tears to try hard to make him feel ok about it and safe with it. I have to say that he is now 4 and asked me the other day if grandpa was extinct like the dinosaurs and dragons. Also overheard him telling his little friend that his grandma had died because she didnt take care of herself, have know idea were he heard that but does go to show that they hear stuff and its so much better to just be honest if its appropriate. He's also ok with knowing its ok to cry when you miss someone who has died. In a strange way i think he has just managed to accept that death is part of life and makes people sad but isn't something to be scared of. Hope it helps you and hope its not too bad for you all when the times comes.

[JanZ]

Do your kids like "The Lion King"? Friends of mine advised me that children can related to it when I was asking for advice on what to tell ds (3.5) about one of our beloved cats who was dying. They like the idea of "the circle of life". I know a cat is not the same as a friend, but the principle is still the same.

We decided to be very open with ds and rather than just say the cat had gone to sleep or had gone away, (both of which I felt could potentially result in fears about sleeping or people going away) explained that the cat had been very sick, that the animal doctor (as he calls vets) hadn't been able to make him better, so he had died - but that that meant he wasn't sore any more. Ds seemed to accept that.

You could explain your friend's death in a similar way. I hope it's not too painful - but I suspect that you and your partner will be more upset than your kids. But it's no bad thing for them to see that you're upset - that's also part of the "circle of life".

[throckenholt]

I would second the thing about not being afraid to let them see you are upset yourself. My DS1 has seen us crying over the death of our neighbour, and I think it was good for him to see it, and realise that it is ok to be sad in that way.

[luvshoes]

Thank you all for the advice. Does anyone know of any books for young children that deal with this subject?

[jmg1]

Message withdrawn at user request

[sibble]

jmg1 and everybody on here who has lost somebody - my thoughts are with you.
Am particularly interested in this thread as DS (4) has been crying on and off for the past week about the thought of me dying - bought about by the cat getting run over. I am by no means comparing the loss of our cat with a friend or relative but this is his first exposure to death and loss.
We have cried together, explained that not everybody who gets old or sick or has accidents dies but last night when I went to a playgroup meeeting Dh said he was hysterical until he sobbed himself to sleep that something would happent o me while I was out, I would die and he wouldn't see me again.
am very interested to hear other peoples experiences of dealing with, explaining and supporting littlies with death issues.

[jmg1]

Message withdrawn at user request

[luvshoes]

Thanks jmg1 for sharing that. I'm so sorry about your partner. I think the thing that dh and I are most concerned about is how to talk calmly and clearly to our children when we're both feeling so dreadful about it. They pick up so many cues from us grownups. Am particularly worried about dd aged 4 who internalises a lot. Don't want to mishandle this. Need to be strong too for dh who is very sad right now.

[miracleabie]

hi luvshoes- it is a difficult choice for you butI do think being open is important. DH and I recently adopted our neice following the death of her parents( my brother and wife) to cancer. We have always maintained an openness about talking about death and answering those really awkward questions ( where does the body go to/why did the doctor not help?) We have had great support from a charity called Winstons Wish who have a helpline you can phone and talk 1-1 with a counsellor- not sure of number but they have a website too.
Our neice is doing great, but you have to be prepared to go at her pace-let your kids ask the questions. Try not to frighten them with gory details but put it simply and be prepared for some odd queries. Also, I was quite shocked when dn didn't appear sad or upset, but carried on watching Basil brush. Kids process grief in tiny doses and in there own way.It is only now that DN age 8 really has any notion that the situation is permanent. Little kids do not really understand that the person is not coming back so try to be clear about this. Do not say something like he is just sleeping as they might take this literally. Try if you can to use the right words.
I really feel for you as I have been through this twice.Remember to give yourself some space- the children will be fine if you are coping so be nice to you as you will be greiving too.(((((hugs)))))

[butterflymum]

Badger's Parting Gift by Susan Varley is quite a good book to use with young children at times like this.

[stace]

Just to add, my ds (4) also periodically rechecks info by asking questions again. This morning he asked we grandma and grandpa died and i told him my gentle answer of, grandpa was quite quite old and very sick and the doctors could not help him so he died and isnt in pain anymore. He then asked why grandma died (which is altogether a harder one to answer) I said, grandma wanted to be with grandpa and didnt look after herself at all, she made herself very ill and the doctors couldnt make her better so she died and went to be with grandpa.

I think i am fairly comfortable with these answers as i do strongly believe in being honest and also ensuring that they dont get mixed messages from overhearing other stuff. But it is still difficult to be really sure that the information given is age appropriate.

I have to say for my son he seems quite ok with it haas never go upset or asked about anyone else dying in the future in fact he said today, 'we're not gonna die are we?' i said not for many many many years hopefully nearly a hundred (he just sees 100 as a huge number) and he kept saying to me no not ever not even in 100 years. but not in any kind of distressed way.

Hope this helps alittle and if anyone thinks im doing it wrong please tell me !!! (gently please)

[lars]

Just read your message and shed a tear. I've recently lost someone close to me, my father. I had to explain to my children their grandad had died.They took it better then me and gave me cuddles when I cried. Also this was good for me to show them that it was ok to cry and show your emotions.
Mumsnet gave me great comfort at a time when its difficult to come to terms with the loss of a loved one.
Also it's good that you are open, my friend lost her sister when she was young and her parents never spoke about it. She said that affected her and that she thought she wasn't aloud to cry for her sister as they appeared to protect her from the death of her sister. She said she grieved for the first time as Princess Diana's funeral as she felt it was then ok to cry as the country was mourning. Hope this helps and very sorry to hear your bad news. larsxx

[stace]

Thanks lars i do completely agree i think when it all happened i did hide alot of my feelings (as i'd been brought up that way!!) and like your friend sep 11th hit and blew my mind completely within a week i got close to melt down and ended up on antidepressants for 2 years. Hardly suprising i know and mostly due to bottling up the emotions so do really strongly believe in honesty just a tiny bit worried that honesty needs to be age appropriate and not 100% sure what is at 4 years. But thanks for the comforting advice. I wish i had joined the discussion board during that time.

[stace]

Lars sorry to be so self obsessed and sorry to hear about your loss too, How are you doing now?

[lars]

Hi stace, Thanks for your kind words and concern.
Each day does get a little better but my mum finds it hard being without dad. I'm now not scared of death as I was before and it has made me realise yes this does happen to all of us, even my dear dad ( does this make sense! ).
Death is part of life and another journey we have to face one day. Hope you are ok ? larsxx

[stace]

Yes i do know what you mean it does take the shadow of uncertaintity away when you lose someone close to you.

I dont know how long its been for you but people used to say to me that time is a great healer and i used to think b* how much time, but know 4 years on i can honestly say that it was a long journey but almost all the healing is now done!! Hope you can say the same too!!! (((()))))

[triplets]

Hello Luvshoes,
A book which I think is brilliant is Water Bugs and Dragonflies by Doris Stickney, it is for explaining death to children, I bought mine in our local Christian book shop. It helped me enormously when my son died suddenly aged 14, thats unbelievably now 10 years ago this June. After Matthew died, he was at that time my only child, I didnt know where to turn or what to do, I certainly didnt want to be on this earth without him. I devoured book after book on the subject, and then one day someone sent me this little book in the post, and it gave me hope, for the first time it gave me hope. Since then I have sent it to other parents, sadly lots of them. Four years after Matthews death I gave birth to triplets who are now six, when they were almost three my father died of cancer, it was a terrible time for me, I love and adore him and thought I would go back to those dark empty painful days, but I didn`t, I believe he and Matthew are together, wherever that may be and I feel ok about it. It has though taken me 10 hard years to get to this stage, an experience I pray to God that I never ever have to go through again. We talk to the children about Matthew and Dad all the time, they do just remember Dad which is special. Children accept far more easily than we do, always be open with them, they are tougher than we think. Hope that helps, and lots of love.