It's getting serious now

(56 Posts)
plannedshock Fri 06-Sep-13 20:07:31

I've posted before on my baby not sleeping but now it's just getting ridiculous, I'm completely lost, my dp cried telling me he can't hack it I nearly can't take anymore.
I've tried her in her cot, just screams and cries all night, in Moses basket exactly the same so the lesser of evils is in bed with me, but it takes so much to get her to sleep.
Every night we have to endure hours of endless screaming literally every night without fail. She won't be put down at all, now I can't even sit down holding her I literally get so frustrated I could rip my own fucking hair out.
I'm not doing the cranial thing, silent reflux? Maybe, I just don't know anymore. I'm not enjoying motherhood at all now every whinge and cry just goes straight through me now I'm so so sick of it. Can she really be absolutely fine just not a sleeper? When I say she screams I mean like someone has flicked a switch to 100miles an hr instantly for hrs. I think I'm going to go crazy, or my dp is going to lose it. hmmconfused

LEMisdisappointed Fri 06-Sep-13 20:09:45

Can you contact cry-sis?

stillenacht Fri 06-Sep-13 20:10:07

My DSis had the same she took her DS to an osteopath. Two sessions later he is so much better and sleeping through the night. Hope it gets better soon.

LEMisdisappointed Fri 06-Sep-13 20:10:47

Sorry that seems blunt posting on phone.

What do you mean you're not doing the cranial thing?

My DD was like this. It's awful you have my sympathy.

We did cranial osteopath and it made a difference to her and therefore us.

tethersend Fri 06-Sep-13 20:13:02

How old is she?

plannedshock Fri 06-Sep-13 20:18:38

She's 5mths, I just don't feel comfortable with the...is it cranial osteopathy?!? My dp has now taken her screaming out in the pram shes been screaming since 7pm. Feel like such a helpless idiot. Do some babies just hate sleeping?!?!

plannedshock Fri 06-Sep-13 20:22:13

What is cry-sis?

BonaDea Fri 06-Sep-13 20:22:30

Try the osteopathy. Honestly they barely touch the baby and it really might help.

Have you spoken to GP / health visitor?

mistlethrush Fri 06-Sep-13 20:26:26

DS, on a bad night, started at 7pm and went on until 5am. There was the odd 5mins off, but it was basically non-stop screaming.

Cranial osteopathy sorted it.

I know some people think it is 'wooo' but I go to an osteopath when I need to - and this seemed a sensible course to at least try for us....

Crysis is a helpline. Worth a call. Have you seen your GP? I know what you mean I felt the same about the osteopathy.
From memory you can't start the sleep clinic until thy are 6 months but talk to your HV. Is she bottle fed? Can your mum or MIL take her for a night so you can get a break? I really feel for you we had a bedtime screamer it's not fun.

plannedshock Fri 06-Sep-13 20:30:20

No family here and she's breastfed, I think I'm going to visit the gp and speak to the cry-sis people. When she's bad I can understand how some women just snap, I do not know how women do it alone.
How can something so small completely frazzle you?

LEMisdisappointed Fri 06-Sep-13 20:32:12

www.cry-sis.org.uk/ They have a phoneline too x

Wibblypiglikesbananas Fri 06-Sep-13 20:44:57

Ok, have you tried her sleeping on her side? Propped in place with rolled up towels? Honestly, once DD could turn herself into this position, rather than being on her back, it was like a switch flicked. Obviously all the guidelines say back is best - but my GP actually recommended this! Could be worth discussing with your GP?

Basic things - do you have a night time routine, eg bath/baby massage/music so she knows when it's time to sleep (I'm guessing you do). Is there anyone who could give you and DP a bit of respite during the day just so you could catch up on a bit of sleep? Even a neighbour to walk her round for an hour or so?

propertyNIGHTmareBEFOREXMAS Fri 06-Sep-13 20:46:17

I know it is awful but some babies are just twats. Noisy little twats who scream and scream for no reason until 4am each night. I am making light of it of course, but rest assured that most stop by 4 or so months at the latest. I know it seems a long way off but hang in there.

kerala Fri 06-Sep-13 20:51:14

It's a nightmare poor you had the same. Can you feed while lying down so she feeds to sleep and you can leave her sleeping next to you dp will have to go elsewhere. This helped me. It will get better honestly I found 5 months was the lowest point x

WithConfidence Fri 06-Sep-13 20:52:37

God I feel for you, ds was like that. Where you are at was the worst though and he did get better on his own.

What stopped me totally losing it was an ergo sling and pacing forever up and down. Earplugs / ipod if you need some distance from it.

(My friend is a chiropractor and even he thinks CO is woo, so we didn't bother chucking hundreds of pounds away.)

peachypips Fri 06-Sep-13 20:53:10

Are you certain of your milk supply? Could she be hungry? I think you def need to get help. As above, cry-sis or gp or hv or something!

Nothing helpful to add except:
1. You are not useless or an idiot;
2. You are doing everything you can;
3. Anyone in your position would be tearing their hair out;
4. In a few weeks/months this will be over and you will be enjoying motherhood again.

cantthinkofagoodone Fri 06-Sep-13 20:56:22

Oh I feel for you. I've been there.

I don't know what changed whether it be weaning or becoming mobile at 6.5 months but ds became so much happier at that time.

At 5 months teething is a huge candidate so try all the remedies.

How are naps - overtiredness is awful and so easy to happen when they take a lot of work to fall asleep. Try to start settling for naps after 90 minutes awake time.

Walks in the pram are your friend.

This is an awful phase. It will pass. You will not be walking the floor in 5 years to get her to sleep.

cantthinkofagoodone Fri 06-Sep-13 20:58:14

Earplugs are awesome. They allowed for one full lie in a week, amazing.

Queenmarigold Fri 06-Sep-13 20:58:24

I had similar. Gave a top up ff at 11pm, sorted it until 5am. Not great but bearable. You have my sympathy op

If you have a teacher in your area the BabyCalm sleep workshop in great. Cry-sis ime are very pro CC/ CIO, so depends if that's your thing.

JenBobble Fri 06-Sep-13 21:13:27

My friend had a baby who cried constantly and it turned out he had a water infection which hardly had any symptoms except for the crying. I haven't seen ur previous posts so don't know if you've already been for tests or not. If ur baby is in pain they are going to let you know all the time.

You need help - you already know that stressed parents don't help a stressed baby. Hope you get this sorted soon... X

plannedshock Fri 06-Sep-13 21:18:51

Property-that's what I needed to hear I think, that some just are! That means there's nothing wrong shes just 1/2 owl.
Thank you everyone sometimes you just need to get it out get a few fresh ideas and tomorrow is another day. It just gets so hard and it's never how you thought it would be, if they are tired they sleep, oh how I now laugh at my naivety!
It's when my dp cried I just thought its too much and I can't fix it.

Have you taken her to the doctor to get her ears / throat etc checked?
Talk us through her day? What's your routine like? Or what passes for it given she's a crier? smile

plannedshock Fri 06-Sep-13 21:27:59

I wake up feed her, get her and myself ready go walk the dog she usually falls asleep in the pram then wakes as soon as I'm home, have sometime at home then I try and get out to friends or playgroup, walk with the pram she will sleep and wake when there then not nap again even on the walk back, dp comes home, have time in walker/bouncer take the dog for a walk, still no sleep, we eat, go upstairs bath her or massage feed her..then she goes ballistic until she gives in whenever that may be. She feeds every 2-3hrs. Gets a good feed shes always been a good weight never lost anything.

plannedshock Fri 06-Sep-13 21:28:24

I'm definately going to check her at the drs to be sure

timidviper Fri 06-Sep-13 21:38:16

My DS was a monsterbaby, never slept, wanted constant carrying, attention, etc, just never happy. Agree with the lie on side with rolled up towel behind her thing, DS was less unhappy on his side than on his back.

Eventually at 15months we got referred to a sleep clinic who, having excluded food allergies, etc, gave us a contolled crying programme. Within a week he was sleeping through and was a happier child in the daytime because he was not sleep deprived. With hindsight he benefitted from a stricter routine than we had for him and our efforts to settle him were part of that problem.

Good luck with her.

propertyNIGHTmareBEFOREXMAS Fri 06-Sep-13 21:42:29

grin I am glad I cheered you up a bit.
It is a good idea to check her at the drs. Especially ask for a urine test (to rule out water infection). Honestly though, some babies do just carry on for no explicable reason. I apparently did it and one of my dc did too. You can drive yourself half mental trying and failing to ascertain what the problem is and how to stop it. It is sometimes better to just accept it as a hard phase and count down the days till it passes. Ultimately even the most noisy newborns grow out of crazy screaming. Plus it would be very unlucky for you to have another dc that is similarly tempered as a newborn. Only one of my four was an all night long screamer. Ironically she is the most easy going child now! Things will get better soon.

minipie Fri 06-Sep-13 22:03:40

is she overtired? sounds like she is getting maybe 1 hr sleep in the whole day and most if that in the morning...? she needs about 2.5-3 hours naps in the day really so could well be crazy overtired by bedtime.

as to how to achieve me day sleep with an overtired baby.... for me what worked was loooong pram walks, just keep moving till she falls asleep, then keep walking till she's had at least an hour... you will be very fit! do the same again 2 hrs after she wakes up.

has she always been like this? if so I'd be looking for a physical problem such as reflux or persistent ear infections or something.

I do think she is overtired. What time are you taking her out to walk the dog? About 9?

fffinsake Fri 06-Sep-13 22:10:55

PLANNED, is she a big feeder? How are her poos? Is she farty?

Please, along with the good advice above, contact your infant feeding coordinator at the maternity hospital, your HV or gp should be able to get you the contact details. This could be an oversupply problem but you might need help to sort it out and when they are this tired and upset and you are this tired and upset you need proper expert feeding help.

I have been there and it is unbearable and after the magic 3 months passes and your baby still has colic it's the loneliest time in the world. Get help, use any energy you can find to get a feeding adviser, a proper lactation consultant to help you.

Sleepingbanana Fri 06-Sep-13 23:15:28

Just wanted to empathise planned - poor you, sounds tough. I'd second seeing GP as could be reflux and it also sounds like over tiredness . Trouble is, she won't sleep until root cause resolved .
Remember though, babies grow very quickly and this stage will soon pass. Her system is immature at the moment so she cld be uncomfortable.
Deep breaths and get all the support you can. Xx

lisylisylou Sat 07-Sep-13 01:37:04

I really feel for you, I know how desperate I used to get and just use any advice anyone can give you. Now I probably sound like a lousy mother but we had a rocking chair on a motor and we would have our dd rocking away in that all night, I would get Dh to take the rocking chair with baby in it upstairs as we were too frightened to take her out! In fact she probably lived in the flippin chair. I would drive anywhere and whack the heating up full during the day just to get her to sleep. I would put her next to a tumble dryer at my mums on a bouncer chair and i was so desperate i recorded it so i could bring the noise back home with me to make her fall asleep. if all else failed I would give her calpol! Do whatever you think might get you through an hour at a time - my dd would start crying from 5pm right through to 2-3am every day at exactly those times! Can you possibly get any relatives to help you? It would take the pressure off you. Don't struggle on your own and take one day at a time. Good luck x

gretagrape Sat 07-Sep-13 08:17:11

I'm not putting a downer on anyone, but I wouldn't rule out really trying to get to the bottom of why she is crying so much - yes, 99% of the time it's just because they are tired, bored, angry, frustrated etc, and chances are you'll never find out because they will grow out of it as they develop, but at 5mo she isn't a tiny baby who will scream because that's all she can do so there could be something that is causing her distress that needs to be sorted. Chances are that the majority of the crying is due to tiredness, but maybe there is something that is making her fight that sleep that she needs.
My son was a crier/screamer - before feeds, during feeds, after feeds, never slept, never happy, etc. I can't count the amount of times I was told "all babies are like that" and "he'll grow out of it" - turned out he had a cow's milk allergy through my breast milk.
I can only advise taking a really detailed look at every part of her day/routine etc, to see if you can work out any patterns of behaviour:
Feeding - how often, how successful, behaviour before, during and after. If BF, keep a food diary - is she unhappier after you've eaten certain things (bear in mind some foods take longer than others to filter through - my son was always windy 24-36 hours after I ate fish!)
Wind - bad? Worse at certain times?
Sleeping - is there anywhere/any time that is slightly better than you've described? If so, what's different about those that makes her sleep better? Bedding - blankets or sleep bag? Would swapping make a difference? Does she gasp/clear her throat when laid down which would indicate reflux even if she isn't being sick?
Skin - any hives/eczema?
I'd do all that before going to the GP otherwise if they are like mine then all they will do is check her temp, ask you if she is filling her nappies and then tell you she'll grow out of it.

brightonbythesea Sat 07-Sep-13 09:00:19

Poor you. It's so hard to enjoy when you have to endure endless crying. I was very resistant to cranial osteopathy but 2 sessions really helped my DD calm down. I would also recommend trying side sleeping (I tummy slept my DD - I know against advice but it did help her and us to get some much needed rest).

Otherwise, I would say just get out the house and go to some groups or somewhere where other mums are. She might cry as usual, but you will get some adult company, a change of scenery and people that will reassure you that it won't last forever and they understand.

brightonbythesea Sat 07-Sep-13 09:44:32

Also, a tip from my (excellent) HV when my little one was like this: It is okay to put her in a safe place for 10 minutes, such as her cot with some soft toys, shut the door and go and make yourself a cup of tea, or sit in a different room and eat chocolate. After 10-15 minutes go back to her; she will either be asleep, but in the much more likely scenario that she's still crying, you will have had a drink, a small break, a moment to get your head together and you will be able to deal with the next hour or two. I may get flamed for this, but a tiny window for you during the day will help you deal with her.

DomesticGoddess31 Sat 07-Sep-13 12:43:27

My DD was a nightmare as a baby. She'd scream bloody murder for hours and we went through periods of her only sleeping in the car/pushchair. Me and DH felt like we were going insane it was hideous. She had reflux till she was weaned at 6 months but the screaming and night wakings continued till we finally took her to a cranial osteopath 2 months before she turned 2. In 4 sessions she was fixed and now sleeps through every single night without fail even when teething. I wish we'd tried it sooner. Its so gentle you really have nothing to worry about. DD used to say 'the head doctor was making her better'. We have a happy little girl and our sanity back. Whatever you do it will get better.

DomesticGoddess31 Sat 07-Sep-13 12:45:55

Oh and yy to walking away for 10 minutes and switching the monitor to mute so you can gather yourself together. Much better to do that than lose it in front of your little one.

Sunnysummer Sat 07-Sep-13 13:14:03

Poor you. Have you seen the doctor? or even got a second opinion? Crying like this may be relativity common in the first few colicky months, but i thought not so much at 5 months - our refluxy DS is quite a screamer, but even he sounds less intense than what you describe.

Sidesleeping and the sling (or at this stage the ergobaby) have been our saviours. Eliminating dairy and soy for 4 days to see if there's any change (and if there is even a little shift, keeping it up for 2 weeks to be sure) is a bit trendy at the moment, but has made a huge change to my friend's DD, who went from the terror of the mother's group to a sweet little thing in about a week and a half. Didn't help us, though, except to make me hungry as well as tired.

In the meantime I hope you are able to get some respite, from family, paid care or DH. If you do go for sleep training / CIO eventually, don't let people make you guilty, most have no idea just how horrendous this kind of sleep deprivation is, or how hard it is to be with a child who Just. Won't. Sleep. Good luck and have a thanks

stopgap Sat 07-Sep-13 13:35:00

My DS was a terrible crier for much of the first year, due to silent reflux. He was grumpy all day, even with naps, even with good feeds, but thankfully he slept well at night (though it took an hour of pram-rocking to get him off to sleep).

He was the baby who could never be put down, screamed in music classes, screamed in cafes, screamed in the car etc. I want to give you some hope and say that my DS is just wonderful as a two-year-old. Always happy and smiling, bright and interested, really content in himself, and not the heathen I envisaged in the first year (because I suspect right now you think you've spawned the devil, or at least I did).

gretagrape Sat 07-Sep-13 13:46:31

Going dairy/soya free for 4 days or even two weeks isn't anywhere enough by the way - it takes your body approx 2 weeks to be free of the proteins in dairy, so then it will take another 2 weeks for your baby's body to be free of the proteins.

It shouldn't be done because it's 'trendy' as you are cutting out an entire food group so you need to ensure you are not losing key nutrients as a result - you should only be doing it if your GP/Pead advises it as a result of the baby showing clear symptoms of an allergy.

plannedshock Sat 07-Sep-13 14:07:49

Thank you so much for everyone's advise I'm definitely going to the gp to get her checked, she's over tired for sure but I need to suss why she can't sleep, it's almost like she doesn't allow herself, asleep in my arms then as soon as she's not, she goes bananas! I've bought some Ashton parsons stuff to try and rule out teething, we gave her Calpol last night thinking it may be teething but didn't make any difference-not even drowsy!

poachedeggs Sat 07-Sep-13 14:29:36

Definitely find someone to help with going over feeding issues (start with GP but don't expect them to be very clued up). You could try phoning La Leche League or the Breastfeeding Network.

I made too much milk but didn't find out until my second was 5 months old. I wish I'd spoken to the right person when my first was little and I could have avoided all the misery and pain he went through, but at the time he was just labeled a bad sleeper and I was told he'd grow out of it. It was living hell, really traumatic and I have few happy memories of his early days. Keep asking for help.

hardboiledpossum Sat 07-Sep-13 18:24:26

Have you considered sleep training. Cc or gradual retreat?

Bear in mind Ashton Parsons is homeopathy.

I've been thinking about you today.

Ok - so the baby does nap - but when you're walking the dog - which means you don't get the benefit of that.

In my view (others may disagree) the trick to getting your baby to nap regularly, in their cot / crib / wherever is creating sleep cues, and establishing regularity. If your DD is sleeping at walkies time - your dog might have to accept a slightly later walk. Try feeding her to sleep then, in a darkened room. If she jolts awake when you put her down, stay with her - pat, shush, stroke, pat bum rhythmically - but keep her in her cot until she sleeps. Soon she'll accept this really is a nap, and will go off more quickly, at her age you're looking at one nap 9ish, or 90 minutes after she gets up - and another 12ish.

If she"s well rested she's less likely to go bananas in the afternoon. But if she does, retreat to the darkest room you have and remove all stimulation. No tv, music - not even the light of your phone. And shush loudly and repeatedly. Google "the happiest baby on the block" on YouTube for the sort of shushing I mean. Good luck!

poachedeggs Sat 07-Sep-13 19:16:05

Can I just add that one of the things which upset me most was that I just couldn't manage to achieve any of the helpful stuff about moving nap time, earlier bedtime, napping in the cot etc. When your baby can't sleep it's a different problem entirely.

NothingsLeft Sat 07-Sep-13 19:39:10

Another cows milk protein/soy allergy refluxy non-sleeper, screaming the house, never slept, ever, baby here. We're on top of it now but it was BAD. I ended up with PND. DH & I nearly divorced.

Definitely go to the GP and try to the bottom of the crying and work on naps. Getting them to nap in the cot is a life saver but with a sleep resister, just getting them into the routine of napping is a massive step.

Long walks, several times a day were all that helped initially. I was so sick and tired of pacing the streets but it worked. Wasn't long before he was napping in the cot. The late afternoon nap was always the trickiest & happened mostly in the buggy. I feel for you, it's bloody stressful.

Xmarksthespot Sun 08-Sep-13 08:38:12

Hi, I just watched a programme on snoring/sleep apnoa in children and babies. These kiddies (as it is for adults) would wake up constantly through the night because they would stop breathing. The child in the programme who was about 5 yrs ended up getting his tonsils out and it solved the problem. He had NEVER slept properly his whole life. The baby in the programme wore a breathing mask. Obviously this is a very serious problem that only a specialist could diagnose but I just thought I'd throw it in there as something you could consider. Goodluck.

Sleepybunny Sun 08-Sep-13 08:58:17

I feel your pain, I have the same issue and its just soul distroying. I could have written your post.
I always felt so depressed that I wasn't enjoying her and spent most of the day resenting her, then feeling guilty and convinced that she actually hates me.
I know people keep saying, ooh it gets better at x months, but I think after 6 months things did change for us. It didn't get vastly better but there have been gradual improvements and its different at least (me and DH don't take it turns anymore to scream into a pillow).
She's 10 months now and although she still loves a bit of screaming, I can see much more clearly that she has shouty periods where she's just grumpy and it doesn't matter how much attention I give her, she's just not going to settle.
It did turn out to be a cow milk allergy, but omitting it wasn't a miracle cure. She enjoys fighting sleep and being hard work I think. She'll even stop part way through a grumble session and start laughing confused

I feel for you it's hell.

SimLondon Sun 08-Sep-13 21:36:33

im not sure how old your baby is from your posts -
but there is help out there,
if you can afford it then a few nights with a night nanny
blackout blinds
gro-bag
cot propped up at one end with a couple of books if colic is suspected
medicine if colic (acid reflux) is suspected.

Goldmandra Sun 08-Sep-13 23:13:02

This thread has brought back horrible memories for me planned.

DD1 was a baby like yours and I suddenly found myself realising how people can end up losing it with their babies. I felt very close at times. She suffocated me day and night for months. I couldn't put her down when she was awake, she needed a lot less sleep than I did and she woke repeatedly for no apparent reason every single bloody night. I was on my knees with frustration and exhaustion.

I second the advice about putting her down and walking away when you need to. On one occasion I thought I'd cracked it by doing that because she stopped screaming and fell asleep but it was a one-off sad

I had to stop using a monitor because I would start panicking that she was about to start screaming again every time I heard her move.

It was dire and I felt cheated of the lovely baby days everyone else seemed to be having.

Sorry I can't come up with any suggestions. Nothing helped us apart from time. Your GP may be willing to give you Phenergan for her to give you a short break if it works on here. Sadly DD is in the small proportion of the population in whom it has the opposite effect and she was bouncing all night.

I hope you can a break one way or another soon.

JiltedJohnsJulie Mon 09-Sep-13 09:13:51

Not read the whole thread so sorry if repeating.

Is there a Bfing Group you can go to? They should be able to observe a complete feed, talk to you about the crying and check your tach and dd for tongue tie. My DS was exactly the same, he turned out to have tt and upper lip tie. He would feed for hours in the evening and then scream all night.

Have you taken her to the go yet? If not, go today. Get her ears, throat and tummy checked.

Crysis are good. Have you called them yet? Has your DH spoken to them too?

In the evenings what do you do? Are you trying to get her to go down? At that age mine wouldn't go down, so I fed them, fed them some more and took them to bed with me when I went.

Try googling youtube Richard and judy happiest baby. Bits a technique for soothing crying babies.

Could you and your DH take it in turns to look after her?

Ragusa Tue 10-Sep-13 13:44:27

Another survivor here. Cow's milk allergy and severe reflux was culprit with my DS. Once treated he git miles better - different child.

minipie Tue 10-Sep-13 14:39:30

"she's over tired for sure but I need to suss why she can't sleep, it's almost like she doesn't allow herself"

she can't sleep because she is overtired. Honestly there doesn't have to be another reason. no harm in checking with GP of course but overtiredness will in itself make a baby unable to sleep, they will fall asleep or nearly and then jolt awake. it's as if they pump lots of adrenaline in to make up for being tired, and then the adrenaline won't let them sleep. exactly as you describe - they won't allow themselves. some babies are more prone to it than others.

try a few days of long long pram walks to get her to sleep lots in the day. if it's overtiredness this will help.

boredbuthappy Tue 10-Sep-13 18:12:59

Oh god, firstly, you have my deepest sympathies. I have been there. It is horrible, you are not going crazy, little one's who don't sleep are THE HARDEST work on earth IMO.

Secondly, tell yourself that this isn't going to last forever, because it won't. I can't tell you when, but it will, 2 months, 3 months....could be next week, could be next year. I know it feels like it will never end, but it will....I was in exactly your place 2 years ago....and have come out the other side.

Have you tried light music or white noise, bbc news radio even? I agree with previous poster regarding a solid routine. I also found that sometimes light massage (squeezing) of baby's legs would settle him a bit, enough to drop off to sleep. We also had concerns about reflux, lactose issues and resorted to using Colief with his feeds. It did help a bit I think. Also, if it is a tummy issue, speak to GP and find out if they'd be okay with you giving LO some fenugreek tea once a day or so. It settles upset tummies and helps with gas etc...can't hurt.

Singing also helped, he seemed to really be into listening to me singing, funnily enough is brilliant singer now (for a toddler)....I digress

Bottom line, you will not go mad, you and your DP will be okay. One thing we did to cope was to each have every other night 'off' from baby...One night I waould deal with him while DP got some sleep in a quiet place in the house, the next he'd do it and I'd get a solid nights sleep. This really helped us a lot as a bit of rest really gives you the strength to deal with this sleepless mess the next day.

Big hug to you...it's so hard x

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