Another child bit my child

(146 Posts)
bordellosboheme Mon 22-Apr-13 11:48:38

Hard on the finger. It has swollen up and is purple. My ds is 17 months and the offender is 6 months older and is a serial offender... Ds is such a gentle soul. I feel pissed off.... Talk to me please and help me feel better......

bordellosboheme Mon 22-Apr-13 11:50:30

Ps we won't be playing at her house again. She is a pretty mean child. Wish I'd followed my gut instinct and not gone on this playdate. I was really in two minds. Feel guilty for making the wrong choice as I knew she had issues and risked itconfused

Ledkr Mon 22-Apr-13 11:53:52

Aw poor ds it's horrible when this happens but it is common for that she to bite and very upsetting too if its your child biting.
Stay away from them untill she's stopped biting.

NotTreadingGrapes Mon 22-Apr-13 11:54:20

Issues? At 23 months?

Pots and kettles I'd say.

crumpet Mon 22-Apr-13 11:55:09

My children have been biters and also been bitten. It's a phase many children go through and grow out of.

They are now 7 and 10 and we haven't had a biting incident in years smile

Ragwort Mon 22-Apr-13 11:58:09

It's very, very common, happened to my DS - I felt sorrier for the child's mother blush - she was mortified and everyone kept staring at her and judging.

The worse thing was I offered a treat to my DS to make up for it and he chose to go to a soft play centre grin.

bordellosboheme Mon 22-Apr-13 11:59:29

Not treading grapes what on earth do you mean???? This child has biting issues. It was completely unprovoked

IwishIwasmoreorganised Mon 22-Apr-13 12:02:47

It happens. It's a phase that lots of children go through. I've had a child that has bitten and been bitten. It's not nice to be in either side.

I would get a cold compress on your dc's finger and move on. If you are friends with the other dc's parents, then I would try not to over react if you wish to remain friends.

MrsCampbellBlack Mon 22-Apr-13 12:05:12

Its hard for your child when they're bitten - think all 3 of mine have been bitten at some point. But having known biters - well it was very very hard for their parents.

As others have said - many toddlers go though this stage - you just need to be very vigilant.

KLou111 Mon 22-Apr-13 12:06:27

Awful awful awful!
My ds is now 20 months. At 17 months we were at soft play (only 5 of them there) and one little boy was picking on all the kids (he's was about 3 or 4). My friend was there and the boy pushed her girl, same age as my ds but still very much a baby ie not a competent crawler, very clingy etc.
A second boy came up to me and said the other boy had tried to hit him, then the boy pulled my ds's jumper as my ds came off the bottom of the slide.
Next thing I was talking to another little girl and my ds screamed the most awful scream I have ever heard, looked up and the awful boy had him blocked into the corner. I coaxed my ds to me as I couldn't get to him and the little fucker boy had bit my ds so hard on the cheek you could see every tooth, and it was blue!!!
I was livid! He still to this day almost 3 months on, has the bottom half of a mouth on his cheek. It doesn't look like a bite anymore, but a red curved line. If I ever see them again I don't know what's would do.
I was so shocked at the time, I went to get some ice and told his mum what he'd done, but didn't have a go at her as all I kept thinking was it so could have been easily have been the other way around, despite my ds being the kindest, affectionate little thing. They left as she was mortified, but my poor little man was in bits so I really couldn't have given a shite. Her son should have know better.

IwishIwasmoreorganised Mon 22-Apr-13 12:11:00

KLou. While what happened to your son sounds awful, it's not simply a case that the other child should have known better.

It is a developmental phase that lots of children go through. Being told off for biting once won't just stop it from happening again. It needs consistency and vigilance from all concerned and like every other phase, it will pass.

My DD was a biter, and as her parent it was horrible to see all her friends turn their backs. Apparently its mostly due to frustration, and once they can verbalise more (and boy can she verbalise now wink) it does stop. DD hasn't bitten for 3 years or more

Issues at 23 months? Lots of toddlers bite. I am sorry for your ds, but I'd say that in a person's childhood it is likely to receive and also administer a bite.
There is no need to be pissed off for more than 2 minutes, really smile

ihearttc Mon 22-Apr-13 12:25:35

My big DS1 (who is now 8) was a biter when he was that age...and I can assure you that he didn't have or doesn't have "issues" even now!

He bite out of sheer frustration as he had a significant speech delay and while other children all around him could ask for the toy etc he couldn't and would bite to get what he wanted. I used to constantly hover near him so that I could pre empt the situation.

As I said he is now 8 and is the kindest gentlest boy you would ever meet. I actually think it's kind of sad that you can't even see beyond the fact that it's a child that bites...I would say 99% of the time there are reasons behind it.

And I can promise you that however bad you may be feeling as it's your child that got hurt...the "biter's" mum probably feels a million times worse as if she is anything like me she is terrified to take him anywhere in case they hurt someone.

DS2 also has a speech delay but his "thing" is screaming at the top of his voice at a level which would break glass...still the same thing but his frustration has come out in a different way but equally annoying.

bordellosboheme Mon 22-Apr-13 12:33:35

Gosh, I can't believe how permissive people are about serious bites. They can cause serious infection and bruising. I have just had to go to the docs with him. If a dog had bit a child like that, you know what people would be saying.

It must be horrible to be the parent of a biter, but it's even worse to see your child injured and in pain.... I think parents of biters need to be more vigilant tbh.

GoblinGranny Mon 22-Apr-13 12:37:52

I agree that if you have a child who behaves unpredictably in social situations, biting or hitting, then as a parent you need to be extra vigilant and try and intervene before someone gets hurt.
Did you think that the mother of the biter was not being?

Oh get over it. They are both babies.

Your turn will come. Biting is not caused by bad parenting and 2 year olds don't have issues.

DS2 was a biter. I used to dread collecting him from nursery as there would be someone greeting me at the door with "He's bitten x today". It was a daily walk of shame.
One day we were at the airport and the boys were in the soft play area. A blood curdling scream rang out. My first thought was "oh no he's bitten someone". Then DS2 came out purple faced and yelling - with a huge set of teeth marks on his arm. I'm sorry to say I was delighted -that he was the bitee and not the biter.

colditz Mon 22-Apr-13 12:49:43

Oh stop it. I've seen enough of these silly threads to last me a life time. Go on Wikipedia if yore bored, or, you know, go out?

bordellosboheme Mon 22-Apr-13 12:52:20

Bit nasty Colditz.... Aren't you

MrsCampbellBlack Mon 22-Apr-13 12:52:41

But its a toddler not a dog - what exactly are you advocating should be done to toddlers who bite?

My eldest was bitten on the face by a child when he was about 2 because they were arguing over a toy. Yes my son was upset and I wasn't overly impressed at teeth marks on his face but I knew the other child had done it out of frustration not because he was evil.

JimbosJetSet Mon 22-Apr-13 12:55:49

DD was also a 'gentle little soul' at 17 months... It all changed around 2 years! Try not to judge too harshly, it may well be your child biting/hitting/ pushing in a few months time, and the shoe will be on the other foot (bitter experience hmm)

Jesus wept, I hate these threads, `my child is perfect, she/he will never bite, hit, scratch, snatch, fart, scream, pull hair, bash etc etc......` whatever.

Clare123 Mon 22-Apr-13 12:56:38

Welcome to motherhood and toddlerism. It happens - it's a stage - they are both learning and so are you.

NotTreadingGrapes Mon 22-Apr-13 12:57:27

Seriously, you went to the doctors?

You are going to have one hell of a wake up call when your PFB starts nursery my love. You might want to start the counselling now.

colditz Mon 22-Apr-13 12:57:58

No, I'm not. I'm fed up of the reaction seeking posts. If I am going to take the time to post a response, I want to know that it's a real person, having a real issue, not a bored woman rubbing her hands with glee at the thought of all the funny people getting cross at her post.

bordellosboheme Mon 22-Apr-13 13:02:26

It's a real issue actually Colditz. This is mumsnet I am posting about my sons finger which is bleeding, bruised and swollen and as a first time mum I am after advice about the practical and parenting side of biting. The majority have people have given me reassuring advice (thank you).

bordellosboheme Mon 22-Apr-13 13:03:31

Nottreadinggrapes..... Er yes, it's bleeding, it could be infected. They cleaned it up and bandaged it. What's your problem with that??????

showtunesgirl Mon 22-Apr-13 13:04:32

My DD was bitten by another child at her CM the other week but as far as I was concerned, it's not the CM's fault, it's not the mother's fault and it's not the child's fault. It will just require monitoring.

When I picked DD up, the CM told me what happened and the mother of the child was apologising profusely but it's not her fault so why should I make her feel bad about something that she was obviously rather distressed about?

From what I've read, biting is very, very common and a bitee can well become a biter so don't be too quick to judge.

NotTreadingGrapes Mon 22-Apr-13 13:05:35

Do they know you well at the doctors?

(and most of the posts have told you not to be so silly btw)

bordellosboheme Mon 22-Apr-13 13:06:01

Klou111 that sounds awful. You do wonder why some children are so antisocial.

AnyaKnowIt Mon 22-Apr-13 13:07:10

Welcome to the world of toddlerhood. grin

bordellosboheme Mon 22-Apr-13 13:08:35

Nottreadinggrapes.... Be nice please. It's a wound ffs.... Toddlers mouths are full of bacteria like step and staph.... I'm not just going to leave it am I (and no, the doctors hardly know me).

houmousandcarrotsandwich Mon 22-Apr-13 13:08:38

I don't usually get involved in this sort of thread, but this is a subject very close to my heart.
I currently have a 3 year old biter (and other violence too, but that's on another thread). It is making me very sad. My logic says it's a phase etc etc, but in my heart it hurts. I dread going anywhere with him, but I get that I just need to get out. I stick to him like glue, but I cannot always stop him despite my best efforts.
I'm sure my invites to play dates, parties etc has declined because of this.

So yes your pissed (prob more at yourself because you didn't want to go before you even went) & your child has been hurt (but toddlers make a living out of minor injuries, isn't that how they learn certain things?!). But that Childs mother is probably feeling like the world is her judge and is questioning her parenting(even if not while you were around).
I think it is she who needs a sympathetic ear

showtunesgirl Mon 22-Apr-13 13:09:36

You do wonder why some children are so antisocial.

Of FFS, they are just little, they are NOT being antisocial. Biting is a developmental phase for some!

This is mumsnet I am posting about my sons finger which is bleeding, bruised and swollen and as a first time mum I am after advice about the practical and parenting side of biting

No your not, you posted that you wont be going to your friends again, the child has issues and compared it to a dog and said parents of bitees should be more vigilant.

You didnt want advice, you wanted a bitch about toddlers who bite, and to judge parents who children are going through or have gone through a biting stage.

Im sorry your son is hurt, its horrible and is upsetting, no one likes to see their LO hurt, but it wasnt a deliberate act, and your child could very well turn into a biter before you know it.

Themobstersknife Mon 22-Apr-13 13:13:06

Its bleeding? Really? How come you didn't mention that in your first post? I have never known a toddler bite to cause a wound. How strange.
I have two girls, both have bitten at nursery. What would you suggest I do about it, to cure them of their issues?

Bumply Mon 22-Apr-13 13:13:17

DS1 had a period when he was at nursery where another toddler was jealous of the attention DS1 got and would bite him at every opportunity.

Nursery staff did everything that they could to keep them apart, but the other boy would do things like waiting until another child fell and nursery staff went to assist before rushing in to bite DS1 while they were occupied.

Some of the bites were nasty. It was upsetting to DS1 and everyone else involved. It resolved by the Mother of the other child going back to original nursery where he had had no issue.

About 9 months later my DS1 started biting other children at nursery. Possibly learned behaviour, probably more just to his hitting the age at which such things are typical. Nursery staff did their best to deal with the issue, although some suggestions like putting him in with the after school kids in the hopes he'd be intimidated by their size didn't help - he just bit the older children too. Eventually he grew out of it.

There's not a lot you can do about it when they're toddlers. Just endless patience in getting across to them that it's not to be tolerated and limiting the chances of it occurring wherever possible.

bordellosboheme Mon 22-Apr-13 13:13:55

Sorry to hear that houmousandcarrots it must be awful to be on the other side of it too..... hmm

Themobstersknife Mon 22-Apr-13 13:13:58

It should have said 'wound' and 'issues'.

bordellosboheme Mon 22-Apr-13 13:19:27

Are you saying I haven't come on here for advice dreamsturntodust? I think I know my intention and I think I have! I might also be bitching, but that's because I am human and I am angry.

Bordello - I am not being mean saying this, but your child will probably bite / smack another child in the face with a light saber / throw lego at another child quite soon.....DO NOT judge.

AnyaKnowIt Mon 22-Apr-13 13:21:22

Why the bitching? Its normal for toddlers to bite.

You comfort your child and get over it.

bordellosboheme Mon 22-Apr-13 13:21:23

Themobsterknife...... 'I have never seen a toddler bite cause a wound'..... Are you kidding me?

NotTreadingGrapes Mon 22-Apr-13 13:21:35

You want practical advice?

OK, soap, water, a cuddle. Sorted.

And be careful of the hubris. It will bite you on the bum for sure. (no pun intended)

NotTreadingGrapes Mon 22-Apr-13 13:22:46

And seriously....(and I am trying to be nice now) you sound a leedle bit over anxious. Maybe try not to see bacteria and death and gloom in every little mishap?

IwishIwasmoreorganised Mon 22-Apr-13 13:23:29

OP - you didn't initially say that your dc's finger was bleeding. I have never heard of or seen a child's bite breaking the skin, especially on a fingers where there is little flesh for the teeth to actually sink into. That aside I hope that you bled the wound and ran it under clean free flowing water to minimise the infection risk. I assume you did a first aid course in preparation for your pfb's arrival?

Comparing the child to a dog and calling them anti social is an extreme over reaction and smacks of one who struggles to see much further than the end of their nose.

If you're lucky your dc will never bite, snatch, hit or push but as all of these things are normal toddler behaviour you might find very soon that your little treasure is also undergoing these normal developmental phases.

I hope that any victims of your dc have suitably understanding parents otherwise you could soon be seeing a great reduction in outings with your dc.

Themobstersknife Mon 22-Apr-13 13:23:37

No. I am not kidding. Maybe we have been lucky on the number of occasions have been biter or bitee.

Well, tbh it doesnt sound as though you want advice, everyones telling you that biting is a phase some children go through. It doesnt mean that the other child has issues though does it? But there really is no need to bitch as very soon it could be your child biting or hitting, snatching etc... you wouldnt want your friends bitching about you would you?

gonedeafinoneear Mon 22-Apr-13 13:28:07

bordello you should read through some of the previous threads on this topic. You will see the response is pretty similar every time someone brings it up.

It is upsetting when your child is on the receiving end, especially if it's your first child as it's a bit of a shock. But it is also not at all unusual. If you don't like this child and her mother then yes, probably best you don't go round again.

Hope your DS's finger gets better soon.

Struckachord Mon 22-Apr-13 13:29:38

My dc has been the biter and the bitten. I was horrified the first time it happened (both being bitten and dc biting). I now realise that it is very common and a developmental phase. Although it sounds fairly bad, OP, unfortunately this is normal.

EldritchCleavage Mon 22-Apr-13 13:29:53

It's awful for your child and you, but please try not to demonise the other child as 'having issues' or compare him/her to a dangerous dog. At 23 months, there may well be issues, but equally the child may well also just be a perfectly nice little kid going through an unfortunate phase (as yours may do in time).

My lovely niece was a hitter for a bit, despite her mother's vigilance and sensible discipline. It was very hard for a while, but fortunately she has got out of it. If any of her friends' parents had just written her off as violent they and their children would have missed out on knowing a delightful child.

bordellosboheme Mon 22-Apr-13 13:33:00

Gondeafinoneear... Thanks for your post, I will check out previous threads

kerala Mon 22-Apr-13 13:37:38

Agree with Eldritch she is so right. It is upsetting but honestly it is a phase. It is almost certain that at some point your "gentle" child will lamp or bite another child. I have two notoriously "good" little girls, DD1 was bitten on the face at a library by a strangers child when she was the same age as yours. I was really quite upset and thought the same things you are thinking now. Then DD1 herself went through a hitting stage blush, I was mortified. DD2 always beautifully behaved but once bit a child at playgroup (I didnt see it I was serving teas) again I was mortified but as a second time mother you have abit more perspective. As long as the parent deals with it appropriately and firmly says no I really wouldnt build it up or demonise the other toddler.

Both my girls and their hitting and biting toddler peers are now all 6 and 4 and would no more hit or bite than I would x

PrincessScrumpy Mon 22-Apr-13 13:38:33

Dtd1 is a biter - usually her twin but I did catch her biting a 3yo boy once (she was 17mo and he was trying to drag her head first out of a toy car). Dd1 has also been bitten at nursery by another child. My other 2 DC have never - to my knowledge - bitten.
I would only be pissed off if parent failed to act.
My brother had a friend who hit him every week at play group and the mother did nothing.. Until he hit back then she complained my brother her her dc. surprised a doctor was necessary!

An anti-social 23 month old.

Priceless OP, absolutely priceless.

PrincessScrumpy Mon 22-Apr-13 13:44:46

Oh my word... Just read more. Describing a toddler as anti social?! Words fail me.

bordellosboheme Mon 22-Apr-13 13:48:09

Thanks Erdrich and others. I will try not to demonise the child... The mum really didn't deal with it that well. She didn't shout at her child or even change her tone to a firm, no nonsense one. she indulges her child quite a lot and doesn't 'notice' when her child does something wrong, but is quick to tell off other kids...

Other people have described her child as a loner... I would certainly never use such terms as i think thats harsh, But she certainly never plays well with others.

I'm sure, as others have said, it is a phase and it will pass.... It's just as a first time mum and it's never happened before, it came as a shock......

IwishIwasmoreorganised Mon 22-Apr-13 13:49:04

So calling a child a loner is harsh, but calling them antisocial and comparing them to a dog is ok? hmm

Kewcumber Mon 22-Apr-13 13:51:38

Its really not unusual.

Though breaking the skin is highly unusual (most toddlers don't have teeth designed for cutting though skin like a dog) and should of course be cleaned if the skin is broken and treated the same as you would any cut in a small child .

Biting in toddlerhood isn't a sign of a child with issues. And yes if you are the parent of a biter you do need to pay special care to intervene quickly.

Unless the biter is school age or the parent isn't intervening at all, I wouldn't worry overly about it certainly not enough to lose friends over.

bordellosboheme Mon 22-Apr-13 13:53:02

When I used the term antisocial I was referring to klous post and the 4 year old she was talking about...

Kewcumber Mon 22-Apr-13 13:54:00

If the mother isn't intervening - you'd be better off saying to her "I know lots of children go through a biting phase but if you're not seen to intervene and try to stop him then people will start avoiding going out with you". Will have far more effect than fell all huffy about it privately.

racmun Mon 22-Apr-13 13:54:50

My son will bite if provoked. He's not much of a talker so whilst he won't usually instigate an incident if somebody snatches something from him he will try and bite their hand instead of coming over and saying so and so did this etc. he bit somebody at preschool last week and his key worker said it is part of growing up!

As a parent it is mortifying I watch him like a hawk but its always when I turn my head for 10 seconds that something happens. I've been in tears myself, other mothers can be very bitchy. I also apologise profusely and really do chastise my son for biting or going to bite. Implying that a child has issues though is a bit harsh I have never been aggressive with my son or anything like that but as the mother of a biter you feel as though the other mothers are questioning what goes on at home.

I think much depends on the mother's reaction as to whether you think she is genuinely concerned at her son's behaviour but maybe cut her some slack as I am sure she is embarrassed.

OP, lots of 23 months old are still learning how to play with or without other children.
Some are already quite competent and "social", others just aren't yet. Some prefer to play on their own. Others still have the attention span of an ant. It's really too early to say, little children need time.

thewarmestowl Mon 22-Apr-13 14:09:27

OP, I am sorry that your child was bitten. However your expectations of a 23 month old are unrealistically high. Although undesirable, at this age biting is normal. Similarly many children aren't that interested in other children at this age.

My DS1 bit, and was bitten, a few times at around this age. He is now a gentle and well behaved four year old, as are the children who bit him. Fortunately we didn't write them off aged 2 as being unsuitable company, and luckily nobody did this to us either. It happens; by all means get wound up by the parent of the biter failing to deal with it, but please don't be so down on the child. It's really not nice, and I doubt that your DC will have polished social skills at 23 months.

thewarmestowl Mon 22-Apr-13 14:15:34

PS DS1's nursery advised making an enormous fuss of the child who was bitten, and basically ignoring the biter (after firmly telling them that biting is wrong). This seemed to work well. We also bought a book called "Teeth are Not for Biting" which got the point across to a 2 year old DS1 pretty effectively - are you close enough to the biter's parents to suggest this?

bordellosboheme Mon 22-Apr-13 14:40:10

Thewarmestowl.... That is great advice. I see her at play group a lot so perhaps I can find a way to suggest this.... Or buy her a copy of that for her upcoming birthday wink

showtunesgirl Mon 22-Apr-13 14:55:01

OP, you ARE joking aren't you? shock

GoblinGranny Mon 22-Apr-13 15:05:05

I had a biter and a hitter. I was very vigilant. smile
Worst thing my biter did was gnaw on a friend's very, very expensive designer shoes whilst she was wearing them.

bordellosboheme Mon 22-Apr-13 15:05:56

About the birthday book? Yes I'm joking... Tbh I would love to have the guts to do it for real though

kerala Mon 22-Apr-13 15:10:08

I hate to say it OP but there will, there really will, come a day when the boot is on the other foot and your child hurts someone elses PFB...

bordellosboheme Mon 22-Apr-13 15:23:55

God I'm new to all this. I'm surprised there are not more parental punch ups.... It's all a bit mad isn't it.... This child on child biting and hitting..... It's a minefield

showtunesgirl Mon 22-Apr-13 15:30:38

OP, they do it because of many reasons, frustration, boredom, even strangely enough affection!

I read up on it when my DD went to her CM as in her handbook she had a policy on biting. I figured that if she had a policy, there must be a reason eg it must be common so I did some reading up on it.

MiaSparrow Mon 22-Apr-13 15:48:49

Hi OP, I'm not going to jump on the bandwagon and tell you you're over-reacting because I'm sure you've heard that enough! But I really think there's a massive difference between a 17mo and a 23 (ie nearly terrible 2) month old. DD too was a 'gentle soul' at that age - they all are. But then they change, big time!

Mine was shoved around in the playground by older kids, and that couldn't be helped but in terms of playdates, etc we only really hung out with babies of the same age and so we didn't really have those concerns. And when they did all reach two together there was (and still is) this unwritten rule that says if your kid bites another you tell them off sternly and make them go up to the child and apologise, audibly in front of the other parent. And the other parent accepts the apology (Doctors visit or not) and moves on in the knowledge that her child will do exactly the same.

Are you very good friends with the other mother? Could you not just leave these visits until your LO is a bit older and your mogwi has turned into a gremlin too?

NeoMaxiZoomDweebie Mon 22-Apr-13 16:10:57

OP myself..and my family take great delight in the fact that my 5 year old DDs bst friend in reception was her nemesis in pre school. X used to push my DD off equipment...she bit her once too.

She was just 3.

She wanted to be DDs friend but didn't know how....that was her way of instigating contact. We laugh about how poor DD came home with so many tales of X Jones and what she'd done.

So much changes so fast...

tiggyhop Mon 22-Apr-13 16:23:05

For those with biters can I pass on some really helpful advice that I was given when my then 15 month old DD was biting - ignore the biter, huge fuss of the bitee. She was biting her brother and I was doing the opposite, chastising her and leaving poor DS while I told DD off. Once I switched this round, she stopped biting within 3 weeks. Just thought that might help someone.

houmousandcarrotsandwich Mon 22-Apr-13 17:15:32

thewarmestowl thank you for book suggestion. I have just reserved it at the library! ( I'm desperate so it's def worth a try)

So something good has come from this thread...

Fwiw regarding not hearing of a bite wound bleeding. When me and my cousin were about 7, he bit me so hard it made my eyes water. I bit him back, harder.......it bled.....a lot!

Kewcumber Mon 22-Apr-13 17:28:38

Respect Choccywoccy.

17months to nearly 2 is a big gap at that age.

Some kids bite. DS2 did. He doesn't now he's 21 grin but I used to have to watch him like a hawk.

Can't believe you wasted a doctor's time - haven't you heard of a wash and a plaster?

Seriously, you need to loosen up. When your DS is 2 it'll be him doing something horrible to someone else's child. Unless, of course, he's one of those children that never does wrong.

mrslaughan Mon 22-Apr-13 17:57:40

She is 23 months old - no it is not acceptable but it does happen. It doesn't make her a psychopath - just a child.....

pansyflimflam Mon 22-Apr-13 18:04:20

This is your first child isn't it?

I pray you have a biter the next time. And seriously I cannot believe you took a child to a doctor to have a finger cleaned up and bandaged. WTF would you do in a serious situation??? Can you not clean a wound and put a plaster on?

It is not nice but you are genuinely making too much of this. Please get a grip

Smudging Mon 22-Apr-13 18:11:55

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

mrslaughan Mon 22-Apr-13 18:14:08

Is she loner because she wants to be alone - of because she is being attrocised by mothers who have labelled her?
Most children at this age could be described in some ways as loners or anti- social .
If she has some form of developmental or learning differences (which I highly doubt) it not catchy you know....

MadameSin Mon 22-Apr-13 18:32:19

Bordello you've probably realised that a majority of MNetters don't like parents flaming other people's children. We offer support, but won't entertain the witch hunt of a toddler. What did you expect other parents to suggest .. sue the mother, get the toddler put into care??? MY ds1 was a biter, it was horrible. It lasted about a year and I was one step behind him in any social circumstance. I don't know why he did it, as he wasn't old enough to articulate to me. His nursery were great, understood it was a normal part of development. Some children hit, some pinch, some kick and some bite. My ds1 wasn't anti-social (although the biting was) and I'm a good mum. You'll be delighted to know he's now a lovely, bright and very sociable 17 year old. Your child will forget about this incident in a few days. If this is the worse that's going to happen to your child, you've got off lightly ... just wait till they start school!!

bordellosboheme Mon 22-Apr-13 19:19:43

It was the nurse I saw, not the doctor. I was out and about not near home with no plasters or clean water with me. It seemed the logical thing to do..... No... The nurse was fine, winced and said 'oh that looks really nasty'. Do you want a tetanus jab..... I certainly wasn't waisting their time. It's what they're for, isn't it.

Its certainly not a witch hunt, I wouldn't have been over there if I was demonising the child. I know at least three others she's bit....

Littlefish Mon 22-Apr-13 19:23:35

Biting is a phase. Children grow out of it.

<Waves to Kewcumber, remembering a biting incident long ago.......> grin

AlanMoore Mon 22-Apr-13 20:04:15

Wow your surgery is obliging!

DeWe Mon 22-Apr-13 20:27:55

"Do you want a tetanus jab?" That has to have been said in jest. Absolutely no way a nurse would offer that seriously after a toddler bite.

I've got 3 dc. 2 were bitten and never bit anyone. One was a biter, and I can tell you I always felt much worse if my child had bitten another than when my dc were bitten. Luckily I had sensible friends who knew that all children can go through such a phase.

And as for "the child is a bit of a loner"... they are at that age... <asks HQ for a roll eye emotion>

bordellosboheme Mon 22-Apr-13 20:31:37

Now your misquoting me deme..... I said other mums ave described her as a loner. I said that was harsh....

It was the nurse that told me that human bites are worse than animal ones as the human mouth contains so much bacteria. As it broke the skin and we were outside in a muddy garden playing at the time, she offered the jab. This was not in jest. Why would you think that. Odd that some would downplay all this.

Kewcumber Mon 22-Apr-13 20:43:40

helloooooo littlefish. You won't be surprised to hear (I hope) that he doesn't bite anymore

Littlefish Mon 22-Apr-13 20:50:51

Kew - that proves my earlier point exactly. Biting is a phase and children grow it of it.

OP - I hope Kew won't mind me saying that her ds once bit my dd. She handled it brilliantly and removed him straight away and spoke to him. I hope that I handled it ok as well, consoling my daughter but in no way vilifying her ds.

pansyflimflam Mon 22-Apr-13 21:39:50

A Tetanus jab for a bite from a child? I think the nurse might have been 'humouring' you or taking the piss

You are massively over reacting to this entire event, really you are

5madthings Mon 22-Apr-13 21:53:13

Isn't the tetanus jab one that they get as babies anyway, the five in one at two/three and four mths? If your child has had that she wouldn't need it.

Seriously toddlers bite, she isnt horrible and mean it antisocial and a loner, the child isn't even two yet! At this age they play alongside each other and are learning social norms etc, it takes time. A firm no sand removal from the situation and then keep a close eye to try and distract before anything happens. Sometimes its a short phase, others it can go on for months but they learn eventually.

5madthings Mon 22-Apr-13 21:55:20

www.nhs.uk/Conditions/vaccinations/Pages/vaccination-schedule-age-checklist.aspx

If your child is up to date with her vaccinations she has had the tetanus jab so maybe the nurse was just checking she has been vaccinated, they wouldn't routinely offer a tetanus jab for a toddler as they should be immune.

bordellosboheme Mon 22-Apr-13 22:00:49

http://www.patient.co.uk/health/Bites-(Human).htm

FYI.....

The nurse said they can give a booster

5madthings Mon 22-Apr-13 22:04:02

She wouldn't need a booster jab, she will get one at age 3-4yrs before starting school and then again at age 14.

MiaSparrow Mon 22-Apr-13 22:05:33

We're all so horrified when we're confronted with our own normal, mammal behaviour aren't we? (Except where breastfeeding's concerned, because that's a GOOD THING.)

But we don't we don't want to associate human children with biting, not in polite society. And yet they all do it to some extent. 23 months is still so very young...

cory Mon 22-Apr-13 22:05:48

So bordello what are you going to do if your own child hits a biting phase in 6 months time?

Not at all unusual that children that are sweet and gentle at 17 months turn into real little terrors at 2.

Will you deduce that he has issues and sit speculating on what makes some children so anti-social?

Many of us have felt smug about our sweet innocent little children- only to have a nasty come-down when they entered the next phase.

As for the human mouth being full of bacteria, the nurse will have read that concerning bites from adults. Baby teeth don't store bacteria in anything like the same way. Most of our children have either bitten or been bitten at one time or another. Nothing has happened. If an adult bit me otoh (Suarez...) I'd be straight on my way to the walk-in clinic.

hazeyjane Mon 22-Apr-13 22:08:54

Did the nurse ask if he was up to date with his jabs? There would be no point offering a booster if he was.

bordellosboheme Mon 22-Apr-13 22:49:49

Miasparrow.... I'm not sure whether it's normal mammal behaviour, or the way we bring up kids in the west, have you read the continuum concept.....? She reckons kids don't have tantrums or fall out in more 'natural societies' like the tribe she studied. It's us being so kid centric in developed countries that does it apparently. <retreats to a safe distance to watch the onslaught>

MiaSparrow Mon 22-Apr-13 23:02:42

Ooh I haven't. I'll have a look!

hazeyjane Tue 23-Apr-13 06:23:50

Weeeellll, surely if you believe in the continuum concept, you wouldn't be going on such 'child centric' things as a 'play date', after all isn't your attention supposed to be focused on your adult life?

The thing is about the continuum concept, is that you may well follow Jean Liedloff's ideas to the letter, but unless you are living in the South American jungle, you are going to come across children brought up with our damaging Western ways! The thing is a lot of children do go through a biting/hitting phase, so you will have to find away to deal with it.

You talk about the child having 'issues', well you know maybe she does, your child will also have to mix with children with 'issues, and special needs and all sorts of challenges in their lives (that don't seem to exist in the world of the continuum concept - although I have no idea why).

The way you talk about this child is extremely unpleasant, whether she is just going through a biting phase, or does have 'issues'.

I would be pissed off if my child was bitten. I have a 17 month old.

However I also have a 3.6 year old and know that's what they do sometimes. My older one was a hitter. I had to hover and constantly monitor.
I also stick quite closely to my youngest - she's small for her age and has had a broken leg due to another kid falling on her.
So yes, I understand you're feeling angry but perhaps keep a closer eye on your child. You can't expect young ones to "know" what they should and shouldn't do.

DaemonPantalaemon Tue 23-Apr-13 06:46:46

What a nasty post. I see the OP has not withdrawn her dog comment, so what, this toddler should be shot?

exoticfruits Tue 23-Apr-13 07:08:58

I think that you are going to get rather a shock, bordello, as your DC grows up. You haven't hit the 'terrible twos' yet , when your DC realises that they have a will of their own and exercises it.
In 6 months time you will realise that your own DC is still very much a baby at 23 months and doesn't reason out every action.

bordellosboheme Tue 23-Apr-13 07:10:12

Putting words into my mouth daemon

DaemonPantalaemon Tue 23-Apr-13 08:50:00

You said:

If a dog had bit a child like that, you know what people would be saying

So no words in your mouth there. You just compared a toddler's bite to a dog bite. By implication, you are saying this toddler should be dealt with as a dog would be dealt with.

Or do you mean something else?

duchesse Tue 23-Apr-13 08:54:01

Most children bite at some point.

FWIW 2 of my friend's children sometimes still bite and they are in reception. Their siblings are beautifully behaved- these two just have communication difficulties and express frustration in this way. It is not ideal but life very rarely is.

I can totally understand why you'd be annoyed and upset OP, but it does not make the other child a crocodile or a mad dog. She will grow out of it.

bordellosboheme Tue 23-Apr-13 09:12:05

Daemon, who shots dogs?

cory Tue 23-Apr-13 09:23:28

RE the continuum studies: the woman made 4 or 5 expeditions, totalling c. 2 years, to this tribe. In other words, she was still in the honeymoon stage.

When I had made my first 5 trips to the UK I was also convinced that I had found a society that had the answers to all the woes of my own culture.

My db (bless him!) who has never gone beyond that stage is still convinced that the UK is the country of sensible attitudes towards alcohol, a laidback attitude towards health and safety and a lack of a sense of entitlement. If you try to point out his errors, he will tell you that he has never seen any binge drinking here and that he sees plenty in his own country.

Someone who has lived a short time in Sweden said to me some time ago that they had never seen a whiny child there and that whining children were a product of UK culture. I made a mental note never to introduce her to my nephew.

MaryPoppinsBag Tue 23-Apr-13 09:35:44

OP it is upsetting when a child bites yours.

But it is a natural instinct for a child to bite when they are threatened by another child coming onto their patch (so to speak) or if that child has something of theirs.

It isn't a nice thing but it is something that happens when we socialise children of this age.

It can become a behaviour if the child realises that they get a reaction from it. It is how we as adults react to and manage it that is important.

I had a really placid and compliant first born (lucky me!) who behaved impeccably, never hit bit or had a tantrum. So expectations for DS2 were high. I have come crashing down off the best parent in the world podium big style!
He is just not the same and has major meltdowns if things don't happen the way he expects them to. He has bitten his brother once. And I consider myself lucky that was the extent of the biting phase. However, if I'd set up my childminding business when he was younger things might have been different as he reacted to other kids on his patch.
He did actually punch one of my mindees in the stomach in the first few months of me doing it. (Dealt with by me obviously). Luckily now they are great mates (DS and mindee were both 3 at the time)

No body on here is saying that it is OK that your DC was bitten. They are saying that it does happen, telling why it might happen and that your DC may do it in the future.

Personally I think you are expecting too much from a 23 month old. They are still babies. And whilst some may seem very grown up at this age they aren't they are probably just very compliant by nature like DS1.

NotTreadingGrapes Tue 23-Apr-13 09:38:20

Didn't know they did playdates in the jungle.

(yes OP, I have the CC as well)

(but if I'm going to be huggy and attachmenty I prefer Deborah Jackson who is a bit less bonkers intense)

DaemonPantalaemon Tue 23-Apr-13 10:17:52

So now that I have called you out on your own comment, and quoted you after you said I put words in your mouth, you want to pick holes?

What a little ray of sunshine you must be in real life!

But do please explain. As you believe that toddlers who bite are like dogs, what exactly should be done with them?

EldritchCleavage Tue 23-Apr-13 11:05:30

the way we bring up kids in the west, have you read the continuum concept.....? She reckons kids don't have tantrums or fall out in more 'natural societies' like the tribe she studied

Ha ha ha ha. What on earth does 'natural' mean in the context of human society? How do we define it and who gets to define it?

See, now I think you're just being what is known on MN as a 'goadyfucker'.

gonedeafinoneear Tue 23-Apr-13 11:10:56

Hello again OP. Just FYI my 17 mo DS2 bit ME yesterday - he wanted to get off the changing mat and play, so he bit me on the shoulder as I was pulling up his trousers.(Had a certain irony which made me smile given that I've been on this thread!) I obviously let him know that it wasn't on!

DD was bitten on the finger at nursery when they were all three. She had put her finger in /on the biters mouth. Just wondering if your DS put his finger in her mouth? DS 2 puts his fingers in peoples mouths out of curiosity quite a lot. Could this be what happened? In which case it's not ideal but it may be a possible explanation. Anyway, just a thought.

duchesse Tue 23-Apr-13 11:26:06

My DD1 spent a while in a traditional Amazonian community last summer. She has pictures of 2 year olds playing with machetes. I wonder how many of those kids make it to adulthood unscathed, or at all...

Kewcumber Tue 23-Apr-13 11:58:06

and he may have an illustrious career ahead of him as a premier division footballer.

SpecialAgentTattooedQueen Tue 23-Apr-13 12:20:59

*DaemonPantalaemon Tue 23-Apr-13 06:46:46
What a nasty post. I see the OP has not withdrawn her dog comment, so what, this toddler should be shot?*

No Ma, he's mah chillen, I'll do it meself. sad *Reaches for shotgun.

grin On a serious note, my DTD is already a 'gummer,' she can't bloody wait to bite! I dread it.
Guess she gets it from me, my DBro has a lovely scar from being bitten hard when I was a kid.

bordellosboheme Tue 23-Apr-13 14:51:36

Good point about field trips for cc being short and perhaps not representing things properly..... As a researcher myself, can totally see how Jl may have been wearing rose tinted specs...

I went to give Welles back to the biters dad today ( we forgot to take them off in the confusion). I expected him to be all apologetic and ask how ds was. Instead he talked about how poorly his dd was, how she'd been sleeping all day and had a sickness bug. Very little concern about the bite. I was shock it said a lot to me.

For those who think I shouldn't have bothered going to the nurse. The biters (sorry dont know what else to call her) mum herself went to the docs after her own daughter inflicted a bad nipple injury on her (not just a nip which all babies do). You're gonna tell me that nipples are more sensitive than toddler fingers now aren't you)......

bordellosboheme Tue 23-Apr-13 15:00:14

Gone deaf in one ear, that is ironic wink....

I think there were no fingers in mouths involved... They were trying to play ball together iirc....

bordellosboheme Tue 23-Apr-13 15:02:32

Daemon my point is I can't stand permissive parenting when f all is done whilst little johnny goes around terrorising other kids, yet those same permissive parents would scream blue murder if an old collie got pissed off with johnny and nipped him....

Is that clear enough for you?

duchesse Tue 23-Apr-13 15:18:28

My friends with the biters are far from permissive! Doesn't stop their kids biting. Think you have a rose-tinted view of children's behaviour frankly. They all have their moments. Never had a biter myself but I understand how embarrassing it is if your kid is the one at playgroup all other mothers talk about behind your back.

The child involved in 23 months old- a baby. She will almost certainly not be biting in a year's time.

bordellosboheme Tue 23-Apr-13 15:21:05

Anyway, thank you for those giving genuine advice, personal stories and support, which i appreciate. You know who you are. I particularly like the advice about ignoring a biter and fussing a bitee.....

I even don't mind those telling me to put it in perspective and it could be the other way around.... Etc, I'm not above reassessing my ideas. I reserve the right to feel as I do about the incident, which is not particularly happy.

I don't like the glorification or normalisation of biting tho 'one poster said 'respect' to another who as a kid had made another dc bleed. not cool.

For the bandwagon jumpers who have just come on to be hurtful and critical.... It says a lot about you..

As always a real mixed bag of responses.

Anyway, so it's a lovely sunny day Logging off and going outside......

Thanks guys <waves>winebrew

Kewcumber Tue 23-Apr-13 16:06:02

That was me.

I'm definitely not cool.

bordellosboheme Tue 23-Apr-13 16:10:25

Kewcomber, I'm not cool either wink

MadameSin Wed 24-Apr-13 16:39:42

Bordell your OP says even more about you .. now I'm off to sit in the garden avec wine

And I was the biter who drew blood, but only because I was bitten first........

Lumley36 Thu 25-Apr-13 06:33:26

I am sorry to hear of your situation and hope the finger is better? I posted the opposite to you yesterday. I'm upset because my son is a biter. It's affecting where I go, who I see, my confidence is rock bottom and he is not getting all the chances to socialise as a result of parents who can't deal with their child being bitten. And it is hard to see. flowers My son has been bitten, scratched,smacked, pushed over the works by other toddlers and the only thing certain parents kick off about is biting because it leaves a mark. I have come to the conclusion that I am acting on his biting, doing all I can to support him and prevent it happening. But he needs to meet children and learn to communicate with them to get over this and we will be going to groups and play dates as normal. so I need to say be a bit more understanding, read up on child development, and chill out, it is much worse for a parent of a biter than the parent of a child who has been bitten once. smile

Sheshelob Thu 25-Apr-13 07:05:28

Harden up. Really.

My 17 month old got bitten at nursery the other day. I understand about biting and verbal ability, so I wasn't writing to my MP or wanting to speak to anyone's parent. My son was fine, and while it left a mark, I have no concerns about PTSD, MRSA or rabies.

Biting is part of the toddler world, just like falling over and bashing their head and scraping their knees. It isn't nice when it happens but it isn't something that can be wiped out. It is a way of a child saying something without being able to say it in words.

Or, if you are a Daily Failer, it is a sign of broken Britain and we should all do something about it. Maybe start a vigilante Bite Squad, patrolling the streets for toddlers with issues.

OBface Thu 25-Apr-13 09:10:44

My DD was bitten at kindergarten by a much older boy. His dm was mortified - I now make a real effort to say hello and be friendly to her as she was obviously uncomfortable about the situation.

My dd isn't a biter but, at 2, is a dreadful sharer and I am embarrassed by this.

All toddlers (well most) have their challenges but it is a massive jump to label a 23 mo as having issues.

Get a grip OP.

bordellosboheme Thu 25-Apr-13 13:37:01

I won't be toughening up.... Or getting a grip. It would be a sad day if I am unbothered by ds getting hurt... Even if it is an accident, developmental stage,mother feels terrible etc.... Suggest you soften up instead

bordellosboheme Thu 25-Apr-13 13:50:49

Lumley36 sorry to hear what you're going through.... Hope your dc goes through it quickly which im sure they will. Some good advice above and I'm sure on your thread too.

BloooCowWonders Thu 25-Apr-13 14:16:10

The thing I've got for this thread is surprise that the OP didn't have any way of dealing with a minor injury when out and about. Your DC is mobile and will fall over often. Arnica/ antiseptic wipes and plasters don't take up very much space and surely would put your mind at rest they you can cope with small injuries.

Good luck

stormedmentor Thu 25-Apr-13 14:45:56

g

stormedmentor Thu 25-Apr-13 14:48:51

oops blush
aatami is like that! angry
also lots of biscuits and brew

stormedmentor Thu 25-Apr-13 14:50:28

oops blush
aatami is like that! angry
also lots of biscuits and brew

stormedmentor Thu 25-Apr-13 14:51:24

sorry for the double post blush

kerala Thu 25-Apr-13 15:00:27

It is upsetting when your child is bitten it really is. But as the consensus says it is one of those things, one of the first in a long line of things it hard to watch ones children go through. It starts with them being bitten by other babies and just carries on...we are now at the heartbreaking stage of 6 year old girls friendship issues aaaargh. I get the same feeling when DD comes out of school with eyes welling telling me about the latest meanness of one of her "friends" as I did when another toddler bit her on the face in the library aged 18 months - as a parent it doesn't get any easier!

WadsCollop Thu 25-Apr-13 15:16:44

Oh come on now OP hmm

Kendodd Thu 25-Apr-13 15:21:58

My middle child used to bite, and my youngest used to hit, thankfully they only ever hit or bit us, hity and bitey, we used to call them. We got a book about biting to read to the middle one, I think it just made biting sound more fun to him.

The eldest never hit or bit although she was bitten twice on the same day, by two different children at playgroup when she was about your sons age. Once on the face and once on the arm and was bruised by both. DH said we should get her a tee-shirt with 'please don't bite me' on it, you could try that?

notso Thu 25-Apr-13 15:59:03

My 12 month old DS was bitten today badly.
He is also a gentle soul and it was horrible for him to be so upset and hurt however the biter was his 2.4 year old brother.

lljkk Thu 25-Apr-13 18:09:04

Human bites that break the skin are pretty serious; we are filthy creatures & our germs are pretty horrendous. I would have seen a doctor too.

Maybe the other parent is a loon but even the best parents can end up with biting toddlers, it's not a sign of permissiveness in itself.

(Heck even adult footballers succumb to the impulse on occasion).

Lumley36 Thu 25-Apr-13 21:23:22

Suggest you (OP) shouldn't post if you can't handle others opinions?

Sheshelob Thu 25-Apr-13 22:18:12

Innit, Lumley.

bordellosboheme Sat 27-Apr-13 16:13:11

Thanks lljk, the voice of sanity. Not blaming her parents at all tbh... Just wish they were a bit more proactive with sanctions. So hard though isn't it ds nips me quite often when he feeds, then grins..... And can I get home to stop? Nope! So am not blaming anyone....

bordellosboheme Sat 27-Apr-13 16:14:48

Lumly36, I can stand other opinions when theyre well articulated or reasoned, just not when they're bitchy.

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