A whole new meaning to high needs.

(68 Posts)
Kafri Sun 24-Feb-13 19:23:15

I have never yet met a baby as high needs as my ds.

I have tried absolute everything I can think of (and have had suggested by lovely MNers) and im making the phone call in the morning to book an appointment for cranial osteopathy.

he is a very unhappy little boy. he either screams all day or in the short periods he's not screaming, he's not far off it. he is almost never just a contented little baby.

he hates going out in the car or pram which makes going out no fun for either of us.

if he's enjoying play on his playmat with me, it's for a couple of minutes maximum and then the tears kick in and there's no comforting him.

he hates his swing seat, bouncy chair, playmat, play nest, being motionless. pretty much everything to be honest

please come and join me in my despair!

any suggestions welcome.

countryhousehotel Sun 24-Feb-13 19:24:37

How old is he Kafri?

Kafri Sun 24-Feb-13 19:37:53

oh sorry, forgot that in my ramblings....
He's 9w+3 now

MamaBear17 Sun 24-Feb-13 20:05:18

Sounds like colic. If he is FF try using colief drops - my dd was exactly like you describe and colief made a massive difference. Also, do not bother going out in the pram, use a sling. I used to wear mine all day and just carry dd around in it. When my legs got tiered I would sit on the arm of the chair and gently rock back and forth and she would think we were still moving and stay quiet! Things improved massively with the colief (It took about a week to flush the lactose through her system and her poops went from hard and green to a bf yellow) and we were able to have playmat time, then gradually as she got a little bigger she would use her jumperoo for ten minutes before wanting a change in activity. The only thing I can tell you is that when she hit 7 months, after two months of weaning, she became the most delightful, happy, fun little baby in the whole world. When I was struggling with colic a HV told me that the more I held and cuddled her, the more emotionally secure she would grow up to be. So I held her all of the time. I resigned myself to the fact that she would sleep on me and I wouldnt put her down. Now that she is 19 months I do not regret it. She is a very happy, sociable toddler. She is as bright as a button and, even though we are starting to contend with the 'terrible twos' she is generally a lovely toddler.

HilaryClinton Sun 24-Feb-13 20:07:47

Also recommend a sling. I carried DTD for most of the first six months.

HilaryClinton Sun 24-Feb-13 20:09:08

Actually also recommend a referral to a paediatrician to get him fully checked out.

spanky2 Sun 24-Feb-13 20:10:09

How about reflux ? My friend had a terrible time with her dd who screamed worse in her car seat and chair as it squeezed the stomach acid out. My ds1 was a screamer . He grew out of it. I thought I would go insane!

Kafri Sun 24-Feb-13 20:22:58

I should have said. ..

hes on pepti 1 milk and omeprazole ti combat his tummy troubles. They seem ok now - well he doesn't do the writhing and groaning he used to anyway.

I have a sling - he screams in that too sad

I cannot, for love nor money, get him to nap in the day. I know this is adding to my problems as he is over tired all the time.

at night he will only sleep on some cushions on his tummy which I've had to go with or else noone gets any sleep (dh is at work in the day and I have to cope with the screaming so we need some sleep). we tend to do shifts keeping an eye in him as I know I'm not supposed to put him on his tummy, even more so on cushions. he is very strong tho if that excuses me any?

Sorry for drip feed, im on my phone so it's not as easy to see what I've written and what I've missed out.

countryhousehotel Sun 24-Feb-13 20:23:54

He sounds just like my DD (now 6 years old!). I think that some babies are just like that, and as hard as it is, they do grow out of it. It does get easier. My DD cried all the time. I could not put her down. I still remember DH coming home when she was 12 weeks old and I was triumphant as she had played happily on her playmat for long enough for me to cook supper. DH looked at it and said "did you actually cook this yourself?" because he couldn't believe it.

I carried DD a lot in the sling, and slept next to her. She was very "colicky", we took her to A&E once at about 8 weeks (PFB or what!) because she'd been screaming non stop from 12pm and by 8pm that night we were literally at breaking point. They x-rayed her and said she basically had colic (you could see the gas in her intestines in the x ray) and from then on i made sure i gave her gripe water (i tried all the other remedies and that was the one that worked) and did anti-colic baby massage on her (i went to some free classes at the hospital - the moves i used made her pass wind and poo in quite a dramatic fashion). It helped quite a lot, and by 16 weeks she had settled down massively.

Sorry to bore on, what I'm trying to say is that it's so hard at such a young age to know if what you're doing is the right thing. Babies are really hard work at that age, some more than others, my first was such hard work but my second was a dream baby (and a nightmare todder!)....get through this and in a few weeks I guarantee you things will be better. I know that's not much help right now but I promise you it won;t be like this for ever.

countryhousehotel Sun 24-Feb-13 20:24:34

oh crossed posts, i may not have been much help!

MamaBear17 Sun 24-Feb-13 20:30:10

Baby massage helped my dd too. DD slept on me for naps, because when I put her down she would be awake within 10 minutes screaming. At night time we had a strict routine of bath, baby massage, milk in a dark room, swaddle and then bed. Swaddling helped a lot because she felt secure. Sometimes I would sleep her on her side with a blanket rolled up behind her which seemed more comfortable. It will get better I promise.

Iggly Sun 24-Feb-13 20:54:45

Why cushions? Because they're soft? What about a lambskin under his sheet in a Moses basket or cot?

What sling?

He sounds like my DS was. Here are some things that helped us. You really need to find one thing that he likes and jump on it, don't worry about sleep associations, spoiling etc...he's asking for your help and you WILL find out how to help him it just takes time.

* holding baby and sitting on bouncy ball bouncing
* water running from a tap
* falling sensation, hold baby and bend knees to do a fast squat down, keep repeating until crying stops
*vigorous rocking/swinging while holding, we used to do deep side squats, the down up motion seemed to really help
* noise of hoover/washing machine etc...
* run the shower
* face them forwards if they push away from facing you
* deep squats while walking

Sorry posted too quick

* go outside, in wind!
* sing...all the time!

It will get better (i know that's unhelpful)

Remember the good things about a HN baby, they become very efficient at telling you what they want and are a pleasure to be around once they are able to communicate more effectively.

If you haven't already, take a look at dr sears website and order his high needs baby book, lots of helpful tips and stories. You are not alone!

screamingeels Sun 24-Feb-13 21:41:07

Yup DD was like this - but did like slings, pushchairs, long walks so we did a lot of that. She was windy, colicky, found feeding difficult. Must be really hard if there isnt anything that makes him sleep. White noise played extremely loudly can be miraculous at switching them off and letting them sleep. Harvey Karp's Happiest Baby was the only book I found which actually had any practical advice for dealing with persistent screamers. But it will get better as he gets bigger.

Tieni Sun 24-Feb-13 21:42:58

High needs baby here too (DS now 2.11 and a high needs toddler!). The vacuum cleaner and his bouncy chair were the only thing that got him to sleep (apart from bf) and he couldn't lie in his pram or car seat without writhing in agony from the wind. Things improved at 14 weeks as his system matured, however he's still high needs and can't play for more than a couple of minutes on his own. Things are getting easier as he gets older but it's still hard work.

Sending thanks as I know what you're going through

Kafri Mon 25-Feb-13 01:28:43

selfishly (hanging my head in shame) I think thats the worst part!

iqorkwd so hard to have him - he was a long wait fokkowed by ivf - and now im not even enjoying having him. I fwwl guilty that in not enjoying it. I feek a bit robbed of these special days of him being little and I feel a bit jealous of all rhose people I see walking/sitting in a coffee shop etc with a contented little one. I feel bad for him as he seens genuinely unhappy about life. ive even wondered if its something about the ivf and im to blame or something foe pushing science to give me what I couldn't have naturally.

im such a happy bubbly person and im sure that is the only thing getting me through each day. even my HV comments that she's not sure how I'm still smiling - not very helpful i know.

someone asked about the cushions - it was just one day we found out he liked lying on his tummy on them with tje hoover going so I've downloaded an app with the sound of the hoover.

oddly enough - the days are atrocious but on his tummy he sleeps (generally) quite soundly now. she says waiting for that to go belly up

someone else said (sorry im on my phone) about being awake/alert. he has been very alert from day 1. it seems he fights sleeo but is knackered and there is jo entertaining a weeks old baby for hours on end. it appears in the short periods of smiling (literally minutes of play) he quickly becomes overwhelmed and cannot bring himself down and ive yet to find the reset switch to help him.

HV said to make sure ive done everything - ie clean, feed etc and then to go out in pram regardless of screaming and to out earphones in but I get the dirtiest looks off people. some have evem commented about how I shiukd stop to feed him if hes 'in that state'

lougle Mon 25-Feb-13 03:40:01

The only thing that would comfort DD1 was supporting her head and briskly patting her back. she would melt into it.

stargirl1701 Mon 25-Feb-13 04:05:11

Hey Kafri. I just wrote on your other thread. My DD is the same. We've just had a screaming meltdown at quarter to 3 in the morning.

My gut tells me she's in pain. We have done everything suggested to you on both threads and it hasn't made much difference tbh.

My HV has suggested overnight pain relief and that is working. You'll be just over 2 weeks till he is 12 weeks? Talk to your GP or paediatrician.

countryhousehotel Mon 25-Feb-13 07:35:12

Kafri that sounds hard, and very like my DD. I do remember it being a constant grind and the anxiety of wondering how long she would be quiet for before starting to scream again. I was very anxious / depressed for a few weeks after the birth, I wondered what on earth I'd done to mine and DH's lives!!! I spoke to a couple of friends who had problems conceiving about whether their struggles had made them more patient / less anxious than they might have been otherwise and they said no way, it made no difference in the day to day. Of course they were both deeply happy that they'd managed to get pregnant through IVF and have a baby but it didn't mean they dealt any differently than me when things were tough. I hope that reassures you that what you are feeling is normal and that you have as much right as anyone to feel those things.

With hindsight, and comparing my DD to DS who came along 3 years later, I think she was very uncomfortable a lot of the time (colic / wind). Do you wind him after every feed? I wasn't great at being patient enough to do it properly, also she used to feed on and off all day which someone suggested didn't help her if she was colicky, so I stayed home for a few days and made a concerted effort to give her good long proper feeds instead of constantly on and off the boob on the move. She did grow out of it by about 4 months, everyone says 12 weeks is the magic number for newborns but I remember thinking that it would be just my luck that at 14, 15 weeks we were still suffering. And then one day she was just so much better...I hope that will happen for you too.

Iggly Mon 25-Feb-13 08:30:31

I would also suggest that maybe his meds/milk needs reviewing again. Can you film him and show the doctor?

Also try walking with him in the sling. At least he'll get comfort from being near you even if he is screaming. Make sure he isn't too hot so no pram suit. Just a coat, hat and decent covering on his feet.

Possiblyoutedled Mon 25-Feb-13 08:35:26

My dd was the same and it was reflux but even when she was on max doses of everything she was pretty miserable. I hardly used the carry cot and the swing and car seat seemed to make her reflux worse.
I can't suggest anything tbh we just went through it.
Just be kind to yourself and get breaks if you can.
She is two now and delicious.
With hindsight I wish I'd just gone back to work earlier.

Kafri Mon 25-Feb-13 10:24:00

Thanks for all the suggestions. I have booked an appointment for CO which is tomorrow morning. Its the one thing i've been putting off trying as i'm not sure what I think of it to be honest. Got to the end of the line of things to try now and will just have to see how it goes and keep fingers and toes crossed.

Off out foe a walk once i've dressed and fed the little fella - here's hoping today is one of the better days in the pram!

helibee Mon 25-Feb-13 13:54:26

Hi, you have my sympathies. My ds has bad reflux and his meds needed adjusted weekly for a while. He was also on pepti 1 but was quickly moved onto neocate and that made the world of difference. You may find he gets on better with ranitidine than omeprazole, hopefully the paediatrician will help.

At night I used to sleep propped up with ds asleep on my chest as the acid couldn't rise up as easily.

We found a ring sling the most comfortable for him as he could manoeuvre into a comfy position.

Big hugs to you

Iggly Mon 25-Feb-13 14:27:27

Stick him in the sling.

Honestly he won't like lying flat if his reflux is upsetting him.

SanneSannes Mon 25-Feb-13 14:35:26

I know exactly how exhausting this is....DC2 (now 5 mo) was like that...a truly unhappy baby, crying non-stop that i thought that she must be seriously in pain. however, GP said she was totally fine. Like you i could not believe that I was not enjoying my baby. I was in tears pretty much all the time and at some point completely shut myself off from the outside world as i was so sick and tired of all comments/suggestions from people who apparently all had children who were easy going and hence it must be me who was doing something wrong...although i have a DC1 who has always been pretty easygoing, which should have told me that i am capable of parenting...anyway....it all improved miraculously when Dc2 was 3 mo and since then she is super easy, happy and cheerful!

go to GP to rule out any medical issues. If he is (hopefully) fine, HANG IN THERE. Some babies just need to be with their mum non-stop and need comfort in all possible forms in these first weeks. My Dc2 slept on me and was with me in a sling all the time, and of course i was told by some I would spoil her ...well, by the time she was 4 mo she was suddenly happy to be put on a playmat, settling to sleep by herself (without any sleep training) and happily sleeping in her bed. Forgotton are those tearful first 3 months!!! Good luck!

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

SanneSannes Mon 25-Feb-13 14:38:49

Forgot to say-don't try to get any advice from parents other than those who have similarly high needs babies. Anyone who doesn't cannot possibly comprehend how hard this is and in my case their comments usually made me feel even worse!

Chandon Mon 25-Feb-13 14:45:16

My oldest wqs a HN baby, due to reflux and also personality traits.

He did jot even like to be held, which was hard, I felt so rejected...

I had him in the maxi cosi type pram, so he was not flat as that worsened his reflux. I would feed him, change him, wrap him up warm and take him for long long walks.

That kept me sane, and fit, and also ended up calming him.

If people comment about him screaming, just say you fed him a minute ago and walk on. Smile and nod and ignore. Again, smile and nod and ignore. And walk on. They know nothing.

Also, I found having a routine ( same time feeds and naps, walks) really helped. My DS used to cry, literally scream, for an hour ( a full hour) before he would fall asleep. But he needed those naps. It was hard to leave him scream, but as I knew he was no happier in my arms I left him.

Still feel a bit bad about that, but still do not know what I could have done differently...

Good luck!

Buggy is a bad idea for reflux...sounds like it is that if he likes lying on his belly. My DS hated the sling too. I used to put him lying on his side in the buggy and just keep a really close eye on him. But only when I had already rocked to sleep. He wouldn't go to sleep in buggy until he was big enough to sit up in it at around 3 months I think. Maybe try a different sling? There are sling meets around where you can try before you buy.

The best thing I did was go to A&e in the middle of the night when he was screaming and I thought I may have missed something big. They sent me to paediatrician straight away so bypassed GP who often don't help much. Paediatrician was really helpful with reflux.

Iggly Mon 25-Feb-13 15:49:16

You can get little foam wedges for prams.

crip Mon 25-Feb-13 17:23:42

Mine was like this. She opened her eyes at 2 weeks old and just wailed and screamed instead of sleeping for months. It was a horrible time. But she gradually grew out of it and we have found the years since then so easy because nothing compares to the nightmare of the first months. And none of the advice we got worked - apart from white noise turned up really loud. But it passed and she's a charming happy toddler now. I feel for you - what you describe is just horrible.

MXP78 Fri 01-Mar-13 18:41:03

You have pretty much described my DD when she was the same age. Nothing seemed to make her happy. She hated the pram, car seat, bouncy chair, play mat, basically anything that wasn't a moving human. What sort of sling do you have? When I first put DD in mine she cried but I just started walking and she soon stopped. My advice would be to put your DS in it and just start moving. I had a Kari Me which was great as it was very womb like and hugged her very close. The good news is, the crying does stop. She stopped crying all the time at about 3 months. But she would still start crying bang on 5pm. I think she stopped the 5pm crying about 4.5 months. She now doesn't cry like that but is still very high needs. I can only take her out in the pushchair if she's due a sleep and tired otherwise she'll cry/squeal to get out. She will never sit still, only plays on her playmat for about 10 mins. I've got a jumperoo which she'll stay in for 15 mins on a really good day!
It's very hard and unless you have a high needs baby, I don't think you can truly understand. I also had fertility treatment to have my DD and so also had the guilt feeling at the start about not enjoying it.
My other bit of advice would be to do whatever works and gets you through. Don't worry about what that might mean down the line (e.g. I stressed about using a dummy, letting her sleep on me, always carrying her around in a sling etc) as thought it would cause problems later. I really wished I hadn't stressed about that and just felt good about whatever worked. I'm sure you are doing a brilliant job and just remember, it's NOTHING you are doing wrong (another thing I was constantly worrying about!)! x

Kafri Sat 02-Mar-13 00:09:50

thank you mx - its nice to know there are others who have come out the other side of this grin

I think the worst part is people in rl thinking they know best and i should put him in his room and leave him to cry. then go in and soothe him without picking him up and he'll soon learn sad or 'you're making a rod for your own back sad or my bro thinking he knows best cos ds was ok in his pram the one and only time db took him out. so sick of people thinking they know best. funnily enough-having spent every day of the last 10 weeks with him, I do know his ways quite well.

MXP78 Sat 02-Mar-13 09:44:12

I know what you mean about people thinking they know best. The thing is, they don't understand high needs babies. What works for most babies, doesn't work for ours! When my DD was about 3 weeks old people kept saying she'll sleep if you take her for a walk in the pram. If she cries just keep walking she'll soon fall asleep. So off we set with our lovely new pram. Put her in it she started screaming straight away. We walked for 30 mins with her screaming the whole time. After 30 mins it was clear she was not going to fall asleep as instead of petering out like everyone said she would, she got more and more worked up. So I picked her up and it took me 2hrs to stop her crying. Yes, most babies probably do fall asleep in prams, not mine! So people are giving advice on what happens for most babies as they assume they all fit the same mould. We also tried to let her cry in her crib to go to sleep, same thing happened. I do feel like I've contradicted myself as did tell you to start walking with her in the sling even if she started crying. However of course I wouldn't expect you to do it for 30 mins if your baby didn't stop crying... I just meant that the first couple of times I tried mine she cried when I put her in so I took her straight out without moving. Then someone said to me just start walking and she will probably like the movement. So I started walking and her after a few mins her crying started winding down. I think because it's very womb like.

Don't worry about the making a rod for your own back. As I said, I totally stressed about that as people said the same thing. But you need to do whatever gets you through at the time. Yes I held her a lot and she still likes to be held now but that's because she's a high needs baby, not because I spoilt her at the start.

Again I'm going to feel like I'm contradicting myself but when DD turned 6 months, we did do controlled crying at night. I know it's very controversial but I was near breakdown point having pretty much not slept for 6 months. It was either try CC or me completely lose it. It worked for us and she now pretty much sleeps through the night. It's not for every parent, but it was what we needed to do for us and it means I am a much better Mummy to her during the the day. I do believe you need to wait until they're older though. On the advice of my Mum (like the advice you're getting) we tried to let her cry one night earlier on (maybe 3 months old) and it just wasn't right, she wasn't old enough to know what was going on and I really regret it. Anyway, just hope it gives you some hope that things will change xx

cloudhands Sun 03-Mar-13 11:34:53

You poor thing. It's so hard when you are doing the very best you can and still your baby cries a lot.
I agree with other posters, to check out if there's a health issue or anything doctors suggest. i'd also make sure you are getting enough support and rest to be able to deal with your DS.
I found the new parent podcasts from Hand in Hand very useful, and a good way to get a different perspective on the crying.
(and you don't need to be a new parent, they are useful for all parents of young infants)

here's the link to them.

New Parent Podcasts

janey223 Sun 03-Mar-13 22:45:40

How long has he been on pepti? DS screamed (nothing like before) for about a month after + got very constipated from it and needed luctalose. He could also need neocate.

Colief would still work in pepti as it has lactose (apparently so they don't become lactose intolerant too!), have you tried gripe water? I always found a mid feed spoon of it helped a lot.

He was half way up in his pram about 3 months by recommendation of a&e paed and tuts from the HV. Does your sling have a different way he can sit? He hated sling until he was old enough to be on my hip tbh, I used a carrier sometimes which he liked.

Most importantly... It gets better - promise!

TwirlyCat Mon 04-Mar-13 17:19:33

I feel your pain. My 3mo dd spends most of her awake time crying, unless being marched around the house in our arms. It gets more tiring as she is getting bigger now. It is depressing as the week by week baby book I have has been on the count down to them stopping crying by now, but my dd obviously didn't get the memo. I went to a baby group and was gob smacked at these babies lying quietly on play mats (I'm a 1st time mum), my dd wasn't having any of it.

Colief, gripe water, infacol not made much difference for me.

I can go out in the pram though, I strap in my wailing dd then have to go flying out the door and practically sprint around the local streets and usually she falls asleep. I can't go too far though as if she wakes it is melt down time again, if I go into shops she sets off because the ground isn't bumpy. I feel I have a baby bomb which could explode at any time! My DH took her to a supermarket, ended up with a till being opened just for him and another customer jiggling dd, staff frantically packing for him while dd cried...

The best thing that works for me is white noise and singing.

The other thing that helps me that is now she is bigger I do get smiles and chuckles in response to my songs about her being a grumpy pants.

Kafri Mon 04-Mar-13 17:28:48

haha twirly - it all rings true here! ds is currently in meltdown as dh clearly didn't boil the kettle fast enough for his feed grin
yup if we do brave the pram, shops are a no go - instantly causes meltdown which doesn't stop. The food shopping has become my worst nightmare. car to shop - all of 5 min journey - screams. do shop with ds in sling - ok til come to check out and packing. car journey home - scream.
unpacking shopping - defo the worst bit. ds is already upset after journey so then ti out him down for 10 mins to unpack - well, anyone would think I'm the worst mum in the world.

I hold my hands up THIS WAS NOT WHAT I WAS EXPECTING. sad

Kafri Mon 04-Mar-13 19:13:42

Right so another silly question here...

How much is too much sleep? We seem to have got DS to sleep at night. He has his 8pm feed then goes in his cot. Then has an 11pm feed and usually sleeps through to 7.30/8am (maybe stirs at 6 - wind i think??)

The problem is that he is reluctant to nap in the day but i'm just starting to get him to now. But... he only wants to sleep once it starts to get dim outside. So, today he has had his 5pm feed and has fallen asleep on DH. I don't want to upset his 8pm - 8am routine by him deciding he wants to sleep from 5pm onwards if you see what I mean???

Ghostie Mon 04-Mar-13 19:51:28

Hey Kafi, I was going to write a similar post myself, so some comfort to know there is someone else out there! DD2 is 10 weeks and such hard work - she cries and is grizzly all the time. I don't think quite as bad as your DS but similar and so different to DD1. She does sleep well at night, and is okay when she sleeps during the day, but the rest seems a bit of a battle and it is turning me into a hermit - being out with a screaming baby isn't fun, but then being in with one isn't either.

I do get a bit of respite, half an hour here or there and the afternoons are worse. But she does seem to be trying to find her thumb (won't take a dummy, I have bought and tried every type) I didn't want her to suck her thumb, as I sucked mine until 11, but now I'll take anything for a happy quiet baby. DD1 had flu this week and it has just been a nightmare, I am shattered and getting sick myself.

Let me know what you think of CO, I am thinking of doing it. I did do one session with DD1, but I am not convinced, but similarly willing to try anything. DH says not to, but we fly to Oz in a few weeks and I am feeling a bit desperate!

I also took her to the doc this morning, who told me some babies are just difficult. A young guy and I don't think he really knew what to do with us. He gave us some infant gaviscon, tried to give it to her this afternoon, but she was just spitting it all straight out! sad

janey223 Mon 04-Mar-13 21:43:43

They still need loads of sleep so don't worry about a 5pm nap! I only stopped DS' 5pm snooze at about 9 months!

Let him sleep whenever he wants to & use white noise (hair dryer was my saviour for a loooong time) to help them drift off into a deep sleep.

Urg, I had my share of doctors who were all for babies are just like that. I think it's crap, i do believe that if they're upset all the time there is something wrong. Babies cry when they're hungry, wet/dirty, want a cuddle or they're uncomfortable or in pain.

janey223 Mon 04-Mar-13 21:44:04

Or tired obviously!

Kafri Mon 04-Mar-13 21:55:01

ghostie I honestly feel like i don't have a bloody clue what I'm doing! grin
gaviscon - watch out for constipation. some babies are fine - mine wasn't, which only added to our problems! !

a trip to Oz. now thats the one place on earth im DESPERATE to go to but hell would have to freeze over before i took ds on a flight that long just yet! lol.

CO - I really don't know just yet. had 1 session last tues which ds screamed through and took me ages to settle afterwards then took him back on Friday. he wasn't quite as unsettled for the second one. has it made a difference - er. ds does seem slightly better but it could be him getting older. I can't say I saw anything miraculous happening but it could well have played a part. I was dubious when the guy didn't charge me.... im gonna see how he goes on this next week as to whether I go back again. he charges 20 quid for kids ordinarily which is cheaper than a lot but is still quite a bit if I'm not convinced about it.

girliefriend Mon 04-Mar-13 22:31:54

Hello Kafri, I remember being where you are now, it is such hard work. I used to look at other babies gurgling away happily and then look at my dd and wonder what I was doing wrong!!

I now have a 7yo so have just about come out the other side!!

My advice is to be consistant with some sort of routine in the day, as soon as I started to consistantly put dd down for naps at set times in the day things got eaiser.

Tips for helping naps in the day are making sure the room is really really dark, have a calming down time. I used to feed her in the darkened room, talk very quietly, strip off bottom half just leave top and nappy, pop down in cot (dd went into a baby sleeping bag) put soothing music on. To start with I sat near by and just gently stroked her face or tapped her back.

If she started to really kick off I would persevere for a bit but if she wasn't having any of it then that was o.kay I would admit defeat!

It took sometime but once dd got the hang of it she was better able to manage in the day and so was i

To this day dd is eaisly overtired and overstimulated. She is lovely but very sensitive and I think you just have to try and manage their worlds as best you can.

Dippy001 Mon 04-Mar-13 22:52:54

What sling are you using? The commercial ones are not supportive or comfortable for babies, www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=408839049180730&set=a.263258900405413.64028.246366758761294&type=1&theater.

My DS had reflux and I had to hold her upright all night so she slept. It was a hard time but with the right meds she was better. If your LO is so upset then I would go back to consultant and see if meds need to be adjusted. My DS was NEVER ever flat. In fact, when she did start to sleep by herself one end of the cot was on a chair, that's how much of a slope she needed.

Kafri Tue 05-Mar-13 08:18:32

im wondering if his milk/omeprazole is becoming ineffective - his squirming and wriggling is creeping back into each night now. sad

MrsDonnieDarko Tue 05-Mar-13 13:40:59

Big sympathy from me. Both of my babies have been like this. It's so heart breaking, especially when you see other families out with peacefull happy gurgling babies while yours is screaming blue murder in the pram (I have been there!!).

You've had some great advice one here regarding reflux issues. I have nothing to add other than to offer you hope that it will get better.

For us we have taken both of ours to doctors, tried reflux meds, dairy free, feed less, feed more, cranial osteopathy, even got a referal to paediatrician at the hospital for DS2 because I was desperate to not go through it all again after the horror we had with DS1. Anyway, for us, it wasn't anything medical (as far as we know!). None of the above things we did made any difference although DS2 is still on milk free diet as is does seem to give him excema.

Anyway, DS1 is 5 now and after a year of hell (sorry, don't want to panic you, it may not be this long for you!) things finally started getting better. He basically just didn't like being a baby, his lack of understanding and language just seemed to frustrate him. He cried endlessly for no reason, hated sitting in high chair, car seat, pushchair etc, we just basically had to give up on any of the things we saw 'normal' babies doing and just carry DS around constantly. It was awful. He gradually mellowed when he got walking and massively improved by the time he could talk well at about 18 months. By2 he was easy peasy and never been a hard work toddler or child.

DS2 seems to be much the same. He's 14 months now and is frustrated at not being able to walk an talk. Just hoping he cheers up soon in the way his brother did!

Good luck. Try not to compare your life and your baby to others. This really is temporary. It really does get better.

JoEW Tue 05-Mar-13 14:24:54

Hi Kafri,

I really feel for you, it's so tough when you have a baby like this, I remember when my DS was in the early couple of months and I felt he was either asleep (on me) or screaming. Have you tried a Moby sling? This worked well for me, as long as I was walking. I walked A LOT.

I promise it gets easier, the first two to three months are the hardest and you're almost through that. Don't feel guilty, I bloody hated those early months and I now burst with love for my DS, we're so close - you will get there and this will seem a distant memory.

Reflux is hellish, we were also on Pepti and omeprazole and they were both helpful. I would also try using the carseat on the buggy wheels, instead of the pram. Have you tried that? As they are sitting up slightly it's more comfortable. I knew a lot of babies with reflux (we were prem and it's more common) and the carseat worked for all.

A wedge pillow (under the mattress) in the cot/basket at night is also really good.

spanky2 Tue 05-Mar-13 20:14:42

I have to tell you that Ds1 was a screamer as a baby . It was awful I thought I may go insane. But as a toddler he was lovely . He had screamed out his tantrums ! Something to look forward to.wink

Kafri Tue 05-Mar-13 23:22:56

im keeping everything crossed - people kerp saying to me 'difficult baby, easy child'. time will tell but ill be having words with them if he turns into anything less than an angel. and by angel I mean full on angel Gabriel standard! wink

MXP78 Wed 06-Mar-13 10:54:13

I agree with everything MrsDonnieDarko says. I tried everything for my DD reflux meds, CO, sleeping in different positions, cutting out dairy, caffeine from my diet for BF and none of it helped. The only thing that seems to make her happy is growing up and becoming more able to do things, she just seems permanently frustrated. I think once she's moving she'll be happier and Hopefully content when she can talk. A while to go as she's 8mths and don't think she will crawl as hates being on her stomach. Screams and rolls as soon as I put her there. She is desperate to walk and always wants ti be on her feet. But the good news is it does get better. I can now take her in the car without her crying (as long as it's not too far) and she will go in he pushchair if I time it for when she's tired and she falls asleep. For the first 4 to 5 mths it was full screaming non stop for both those things. I remember my Mum said she would take her for a walk to the supermarket in the early days. Mum comes back screaming baby, no shopping. I said "welcome to my world"

On the sleep front it's great your LO sleeps at night. With regard to naps I think this gets easier as they get older and their tired signs become more apparent. I don't let my LOsleep past 5pm but that's because I put her to bed at 7pm. I need an evening to myself so don't like to make her bedtime later than that. But each to their own. I work it that she needs to be awake for at least 2hrs before going to bed for the night.

I know it's hard but like MrsDonnieDarko said, you just can't compare to other people's babies. Easy to say I know as I still catch myself doing it at 8mths!

Ghostie Wed 06-Mar-13 18:19:22

Kafri, booked a co for tomorrow. Had a great day yesterday and thought she had shorted her guts out. Then today she has either been sleeping or crying! I realise I am lucky in that she does nap and sleeps well at night. But we're all sick, having the two and the crying, is just making me miserable. Not enjoying it hmm keep trying to find some glimmer of improvement or change to be more positive...just feeling wiped out and down! hmm

Sunshine200 Thu 07-Mar-13 20:51:48

Sounds just like my dd who had reflux. Great that your doctor has given omeprazole, keep going back to make sure the dosage goes up with his weight.
You could also try cranial osteopathy- it works for some.
I do feel for you, it's not what you imagine having a baby would be like - hang in there.

Kafri Thu 07-Mar-13 21:47:21

good luck ghostie hope it helps you. looking at our sessions I woukd say that it did make a difference but nothing miraculous if you get my drift. was nice to have a few nice days to recharge my batteries. not convinced it made enough difference to fork out £20 twice a week. might think differently once we get beyond 12w if nothing miraculous happens then wink

sunshine we tried CO - see above comments to ghostie. its so much harder having a baby like ds is. It's taken me a lot of effort still not quite sure I'm there yet to accept that he's like he is and quiet walks in the park/coffees with friends in costa etc are just not going to happen.
even when he's happy (it does happen from time to time) he's so quick to cry. literally with the click of a finger he'll go from smile to scream. it's utter madness. it wouldn't be so bad if he just cried and would be comforted but he SCREAMS and nothing brings him down.

He gets completely over stimulated by toys which also makes him scream. im looking at local swimming and sensory sessions but so far they're all booked up with a waiting list too.sad sad sad

SO MUCH HARDER THAN I EVER IMAGINED. He's just soooo high maintenance.

pamelat Thu 07-Mar-13 22:40:23

My sympathies

Dd was like this. It was hell.

She's now 5 and is adorable. She got better from 6 months.

I know how hard it is. Our second baby was a doodle compared to our first!!

We tried the cranial thing but it didn't work for us. He said she was too agitated!!!

The gp tried to say it was my fault for not being relaxed sad

It was awful

In hindsight she was overfed. I breastfed her on demand, which was constantly. She was born on 25percwntile and shot to 97 percentile!! On breast milk. I was exhausted and she just demanded

In hindsight she was over tired but I couldn't get her to sleep. One day I walked 10 miles just because shed dropped off and I didn't want to disturb her!

She also had mild silent reflux but gaviscon only helped a little. We tried formulas, drops, prescriptions . I feel for you

It passes and I believe it robe the sign of a highly sensitive butintelligwnt and caring little personsmile

My daughter is fabulous now

MXP78 Fri 08-Mar-13 16:00:09

Kafri - I attempted Costa last week. I wore my coffee. SO embarrassing. I put it in the middle of the table but DD is so much bigger and stronger now she just lurched forward off my lap and got her fingers over the rim of the mug and pulled. She SCREAMED because it was hot and got on her arm and the whole thing went all over the table and me. I'm sure everyone was staring at me thinking what a bad mother I was. I just wanted to run home.

So Pamelat it's so nice hear your comments. Like Kafri I try not to compare and feel like I need to accept that she's just not like other babies so I can't do what other Mum's do but it's so hard. We just need to remember that this stage is going to be such a short stage of their lives and the traits that make them so difficult now are going to make them wonderful later on (intelligent, driven, confident etc). MUST THINK POSITIVE!

Kafri Fri 08-Mar-13 20:42:50

Touch wood we seem to have had a better couple of days. I seem to have managed to get him to nap in the day - the downside of it is that I have to be at home for it to happen.

Yesterday we were at home and after an hour/hour and half of being awake he was getting grouchy so put him in his cot with his app on (hoover noise) and he had a little snooze

Today, we nipped out to a local retail park and he screamed in the car again. So it seems that he will only nap in his cot with the curtains shut and his app going.

I'm going to have to keep taking him out though, he needs to get used to being in the car and being out and about.

The other thing is that I was supposed to take him to a music class today but decided against it. It was at 10.40 - well he gets tired and grouchy at 10.15 so thought if I forced him to stay up til the class he would be in meltdown and then wouldn't enjoy the class as he would be so overtired. Along with the fact that his feed is due at 11ish and I don't want to cock that up as his 3hourly seems to be working for us.

Sticking to a very rigid routine seems to be having a small effect on him so hopefully we'll carry on in this direction.

Am I causing myself problems by sticking so rigidly to a routine or should I be ok with it and keep doing what works??

Oh and how early can I think about introducing baby rice and possibly rusk in his milk. I only ask as his milk is very watery. It seems to fill him up in the sense of filling a jug with water but doesn't satisfy him for long as it were (a bit like McDonalds Vs an Indian - if I have Macs, i'm hungry a few hours later, if I have a curry i'm full for ages) Was thinking that some of the screaming might be solved once I can introduce something that might keep him satisfied for a bit longer???

Kafri, I just stumbled across this thread.
Glad to see you are still standing smile.

Do WHATEVER IT TAKES to get him to sleep - so if that tethers you at home for his nap times (in the short time) I'd go with that. Dark room and hoover app - go for it.

I'd be careful with music classes and baby sensory and similar. A HN baby is so easily overstimulated that they are better off without anything like that. I used to go to the local library's RhymeTime, mainly to get us out of the house, and I'd be the only sweating, stressed mother with a screaming baby. I am not sure what I was thinking: what baby wants to learn 'Row, row, row the boat'?? Or listen to 'Dear Zoo'? My now 3 year old is just barely beginning to be able to follow an actual story line; not just enjoy looking at pictures. I think a lot of these classes are overpriced nonsense and can be positively unhelpful to HN babies. Just my opinion; anybody who enjoys them should of course carry on, but I don't think that they are for every one or every baby at that stage in their deveopment.

DS1 used to also go from smiling to SCREAMING at the drop of a hat. His party trick was to go from being apparently fast asleep (angelic face, floppy limbs, slow breathing) to howling before he even opened his eyes. I do so feel for you.

Re weaning. Personally I'd not start early, mainly because IME it does not make any difference, sorry. And it might just do some harm in terms of gut maturity and future allergies/intolerances. I don't think that everybody MUST stick to 26 weeks/6 months rigidly (when I had DS1 10 years ago recommended weaning time was still 4 months), but I do think they need to be ready. I tried DS1 with babyrice aged 4 months and he did not have a clue what to do with it. His tongue thrust reflex was not gone yet and anything I gave him, he just pushed back out of his mouth again. I waited a monthh and at 5 months he quite happily gobbled baby rice/purees up. It did not make him overall more contented, mind.... Sorry.
Rusks are evil wink - sugary crap, really no need for them at all. IMO. But you did ask.

You are lucky to be blessed with a sunny disposition - glad to hear you still sounding strong x.

Kafri Fri 15-Mar-13 21:38:05

hi pacific - thanks for the advice (again). im all for honesty - remember I'm new to all this so all i have to go off is what people tell me and what research i can do. which isn't very much when he's being a little sod

anyway - there still seems to be an improvement of sorts. he will still nap in the day if we're at home so I've made sure i don't venture too far. car journeys are better in that not every single one is torture. je mixes it up a bit and has the odd good one then slaps me with an awful one when I least expect it

pram is still a no go so have just taken to carrying him places.

he doesnt scream as much as he was doing thankfully but is still very very quick to whine and whining can and does quickly escalate....

took him swimming today for the first time which he absolutely loved grin
have given the music/sensory stuff a miss for now - it really would be too much for him.

yes - im still smiling. think its a combination of how hard I worked to have him amd my stubbornness at nit letting things beat me! oh and it is so much easier to switch off to the screaming when he smiles so readily at me too.

Kafri Sat 30-Mar-13 19:27:19

Hi Guys - I'm back! (I'll apologise now)

DS is 14+2 now

right - ds had improved somewhat amazingly! Until weds. On Wed he literally wanted to eat all day. Had his usual 6x7oz by 4pm and still had his 7pm and 11pm feed though wasn't as desperate for those two.
Well, since then we have been right back at square 1, and I mean RIGHT BACK.

On tuesday, I got a lovely video of him laughing away at me which was fantastic - but he hasn't so much as smiled since - he's been too bust whining/crying/screaming.

Today has been the worst so far - he's been so unsettled all day - literally whining as soon as he finishes a feed or wakes from a nap. Is absolutely knackered but will not nap longer than 20/30 mins.

What the hell is going on???

I just feel so so so disheartened now.

Please advise...

Thanks xx

scampidoodle Mon 01-Apr-13 17:10:31

How's it going now?
I didn't see your thread earlier but would probably have joined you in your distress if I had! My DD is only 9 weeks but until a week ago she was very unhappy most of the time she was awake. She's been on Nutramigen since 4 weeks and Ranitidine since 6 weeks and they only really both kicked in fully very recently. She's still bad in the evenings when we try to get her to sleep though.
DS was very like your son but we only discovered he had a milk allergy as well as the reflux when we started to give him solids (he was breastfed). I see your son's already on prescription formula though - how long has he been on it? Could he still be reacting to something in it?
We found with DS, even though he was obviously still suffering because we didn't know what was wrong with him, that getting him into a proper nap routine at about 4 months really helped - took a lot of hours of sitting by the cot and reassuring him but I think having regular sleeps at around the same time each day, an early bedtime and a routine did help. Before that he'd just slept in the car or in the pram if we went out for a walk. It also meant I had regular breaks and so could deal with the difficult times better.
He was a different baby once we got him onto solids and I wish I'd done it a bit earlier.
I understand how you must feel - I couldn't go anywhere with my son without him screaming at some point and we always had to come home early from baby groups - couldn't even go for a coffee as he'd be crying within minutes. Everyone (including childless young men) would be giving me advice and telling me he needed feeding/was too hot/too cold/uncomfortable. I felt like saying - no, this is just how he is!

scampidoodle Mon 01-Apr-13 18:05:11

Sorry, realised my post might not have been particularly helpful. I was agreeing with earlier posts that routine could be helpful in your situation - don't worry about not getting out much, your baby (and you) getting enough rest and getting used to having decent naps is more important. Also, in a couple of months the timing and length of naps is likely to change anyway.

I am really convinced that lack of sleep exacerbates a lot of babies' problems (as you obviously know yourself). We didn't call it sleep training because it wasn't something we'd heard of at the time - just realised what worked for us, but we did have to put a lot of effort into getting DS to get to sleep at bedtime then at naptime and have decent naps in his cot. It was really worth it though and things did get a bit easier once we'd done that.

I know sleep/baby experts aren't popular on MN but I've been reading a lot of their advice to try and cope with DD and I've found it really useful to understand more about babies' sleep and think about what might work for her.

BedHanger Mon 01-Apr-13 19:05:28

With my DS1, it took till about 16 weeks for him to stop with the constant crying, and even then he was pretty unsettled until six months. Wouldn't take a dummy, hated the pram, screamed in the car seat, swing, hammock, bouncy chair, everything. I was the mother who pitched up to antenatal group meetings in tears every time and wondered what I was doing wrong.

How many/what types of sling have you tried? It's worth persevering as they definitely have presences. We got on best with an Ergo and carried him everywhere for the first year because ut turned to be more convenient than a buggy.

He's now 2.5 and a happy, cheeky handful boy. I have a 4 week old DS2 who hardly cries at all and the contrast is stark - and has really brought home the fact that DS1's crying was nothing to do with my parenting. Some babies would really have preferred an extra trimester in the womb!

wheredoistartmrs Mon 01-Apr-13 19:12:10

Mine was exactly the same, she didnt like anything, the pram , car, people, the swing, lying on her back. She is on pepti 1 too. She wakes between 5 and 15 times a night. Ditto everyone else's advice but I can say you will see a BIG improvement if you wean early.dont listen to the hv. Donit at 12 weeks, srart will stsrchy foods, avoid acidic foods like fruit. Oh and burb them after every
! feed really well.

Kafri Mon 01-Apr-13 20:06:42

we're just starting on baby rice atm. only tried once so far but going to give some at his 1pm feed.
am I best giving it before/during or after his milk.

he has the starlight swing from m&p which he still cant stand. he has a bright stars bouncy chair which he'll sometimes tolerate while I make a feed up. what I don't under is why???
I have always sat him in the chair/carseat/pram etc so its not as if it's new to him.
the car especially is hit and miss now. some journeys good some bad. in some ways that's more difficult as its like pot luck whether I get a good or bad one...

im sure his feed and omeprazole are working as when he needs tge dose increasing he starts with the squealing overnight which he used to do before he was diagnosed.
he likes a bit of time on his back now but is just very quick to whine.
This sounds awful but it's very much like if he were an adult I woukd be telling him to get a bloody grip! its that kind of whiny if you get me?

2BoysAndNoMore Tue 02-Apr-13 12:31:29

Both mine are/ were like this. DS1 was horrendous and hated his pram, highhair boucner chair. He was missively over sensitive and just grumpy. He grew into a spirited strong willed toddler but far more manageable than he was as a baby. By age 3 I would say he had just grown into himself and has been easy peasy ever since.

We often suspected reflux but gaviscon never helped and he wasn't inconsolable as such, just generally cranky and couldn't deal with the world well. We also tried cranial osteopathy but he was so unsettled and it didn't change anything.

He's 5 now and is a lovely little boy. No trouble at all. Basically he just hated being a baby and one he got walking and talking has been brilliant ever since.

DS2 is similar to how DS1 was. Very frustrating and hard work but so I feel for you but it will get better.

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