Not sure what I am asking... Really long and rambling, sorry!

(37 Posts)
SpottyBagOfTumble Fri 04-Jan-13 21:58:41

But just wanted to get some thoughts down about my son to see what others think.

Ds is a great kid. He is affectionate, can show caring, is funny and very imaginative. He makes me laugh and gives great cuddles!

But I have worried about him for a while. There are just a few things that are not quite right.

Whilst being affectionate, he can be overly so and seems to not be able to read the normal cues to stop, if that makes sense? He like touching our noses but doesn't get it when people dont like it ( he only does this to family as far as I know!) but dd will tell him no and he wil keep doing it. Not to be annoying or mean, but he just doesn't understand she doesn't like it because he does. She tells him to stop and he doesn't, several times, and it usually takes me stepping in to stop it. Same with patting her head. (Also does this to our other ds).

At school last year he used to always call out the answers, but he had a fab teacher who worked through it with him and got it to the point where she could 'sense' when he was going to do it and could quiet him with a look! (Really rate her, she is totally fab!) this year has been quite an upheaval teacher wise as he has had supply teachers a lot. He now has a new permanent teacher who says he is noticeable in that he is more boisterous then a normal seven year old.

He is quite academic, fantastic at reading, on topaz books, but rejects any that does not explain the context/setting at the start as he says doesn't understand it. I have made him persevere through a few and he has realised that things get explained later on but is still quick to reject them. He is good at maths for his age but not as advanced.

Given his lovely inquisitive nature he is very good at science as well, and we got him some science sets for Christmas. He loves them but common sense rather seems to have not caught up to his reading. As an example, he had some star dust that you put in water and can shape and when it comes out it dries instantly back to sand. The instructions were simple and literally three lines wrong. But because he didn't know if the sand dried in the shape he had made when it came out or returned to sand he said he didn't understand it. Does that make sense? He doesn't think to try things out. If it isn't explained explicitly, he says he doesn't know and won't try.

He is very forgetful. He will get half dressed then wander downstairs then have to go back to get socks etc even though I have mentioned them to him while he was upstairs. He will walk out of the house without his lunch or school bag, despite seeing his brother with them in his hand. He forgets to flush the toilet.

He had to constantly be doing something. For a while it was clicking. He would click his fingers after every thought or sentence for example. Now it is a combination of banging things, clapping and clicking.

Socially he is a bit awkward. He has no best friend as such. He takes things people say the wrong way. For example, a child in his class is competitive about sport and was comparing our native country to his native country. Ds took it that the child was saying their country overall was better, not just in the context of sport. I said, knowing the child, that he was talking about the sport only, but ds didn't understand that for ages. Later on, the class was doing a project on our native country and the children kept on pointing it out to ds. Ds thought they were giving him grief about the country, where as they were just excited, iykwim, about having someone from that country in the class. I have observed when in the classroom that he manipulates the board games he is playing to be the winner, children get fed up and drift away as they get frustrated, but ds doesn't notice their frustration.

He gets overly silly and doesn't know when to stop. Another child has even told me that he doesn't want to play with him as he gets too silly and doesn't stop! If he is having fun he just doesn't notice that he game has moved on and he is now annoying people. sad we thought at first the silliness thing was trying to fit in, as he was always a bit older than his friends, but it seems to be going on too long now for him not to notice the social cues of others.

He thinks, basically, that he is an adult and therefore has equal say in situations, when he doesn't. He then needs it justified why he doesn't get equal say. He does this with a close friend of mine as well.

He seems to not be able to empathise or get others points of view. He constantly tell his brother that he is x y z, even though I explain every single time that it hurts his feelings, it is not other ds's fault he is like that (hormonal issue) he can't stop it etc. he just comes out with it again and agin.

One to one, he Is utterlybbrilliant to be around, and I just wish more people could see this wonderful side of him, but ATM I am a bit lost as to want to do!

Anyway, will stop the as I realise this is long. Sorry! And thanks to anyone who manages to make it through!

What do your instincts say? You know him best. I can totally sympathise with what you ate going through, as your post could have been written by me 3 or 4 years ago. Does the school have a good SENCO? Because that's who helped us the most.

spookycatandfluffydog Fri 04-Jan-13 22:03:24

How old is DS?

The similarities really are notable.

Touching people to the point where it's annoying - tick (DS2 has a bean bag to sit on when he watches TV so he doesn't keep fiddling with his siblings.

Calling out the answers in class - tick (he now has a mini-whiteboard at school so he can write down what he wants to say then he gets a few minutes at the end of the lesson to share his contributions).

Advanced at reading but some comprehension issues - tick (he now has 1-1 once a week to help with understanding the 'between the lines' or implied aspects of what he is reading.

Repetitive movements - tick (the latest is rubbing his hands together when he gets over-excited. A fiddle toy can help a bit).

No best friend or close friends - tick.

Silliness and taking things too far - tick.

Interest in science beyond his years - tick (he is several years ahead in science and has to have 1-1 teaching).

Not thinking through the steps of a process - tick.

The only thing different is the organisational skills. Generally these aren't too bad, although he does go upstairs to get dressed and then I find him reading twenty minutes later, still in his pyjamas.

The OP's DS is 7.

MrsSham Fri 04-Jan-13 22:18:42

Some of what you say I would recognise as fairly normal characteristics of child his age, forgetfulness, defensiveness, etc. but other things I understand why you may have concerns with too, mainly the understanding of context of story, understanding of science, social cues.

However I think at his age there are quite big development transitions and some children can be quite mature and advanced and other children can still be quite young or takevlongervto grasp. I think talking with his teacher or asking senco at school what they think may be an idea.

It could be a confidence thing, which I find with my academically bright dd, she sometimes is so hard on herself she will prevent her self exploring new ideas and experiences just incase she fails or gets things wrong. She sometimes is not understood too well by her peers as at times she is far more grown up, so she then reverts to being babyish but tends to gets it wrong and gets ott and doesn't know when to stop.

I would certainly ask school to observe him or seek their advice during the next term.

SpottyBagOfTumble Fri 04-Jan-13 22:27:19

Thanks so much for reading that massive brain dump!

He is seven.

I don't know! Quite a few of his traits 'tick' the aspergers boxes. Dh and I often exchange a look that basically. Means 'he's odd, right?' When he comes to tell us something. (In a loving, not negative way I must add!)

His teacher says that he sort of has his own agenda of how something should go and struggles with things not following that, but did nth say how (it was a quick chat one morning when I asked if he could hear her, as he seems to not hear instructions from me!). He could be described as eccentric, is spectacularly clumsy, but has an amazing memory. Honest to the point of bluntness, doesn't like loud sounds (got upset once as the school was too loud in the echoey church) and is more of a homebody, but enjoys things once he is out. Can temper flair and get upset at a perceived injustice and will need multiple explanations as to why it wasn't.
Spoke early, like prop conversatns at 18months, crawled and walked early (6 and 10 months) has always been 'above' intelligence/school work wise. Was orange level at end of reception. Topaz a few weeks into year two (current year). Last years teacher has evidenced most if the year two curriculum. Levels at end of year one a year ahead.

Threebeegees - how is your son now? Is it a phase?

The sensor is good I think? But I think she may be on mat leave? The literacy coordinator is fab and takes him to year six for books and has bought a whole new set so they are at the right age, but level iykwim?

SpottyBagOfTumble Fri 04-Jan-13 22:34:11

Massive xpost a due to my blathering!

The confidence thing is interesting. He got down when some children in his maths set went 'above' him (they are a great year group!) he would then say to the teacher he didn't get it but actually when she sat down with him he did. What you said in your last para mrssham seems to fit with the social groups.

He got anxious about year two testing last year to the point of anxiety head aches and tummy aches. This was noted by doc but dismissed by head teacher. He seems to have forgotten about it this year though hmm

SpottyBagOfTumble Fri 04-Jan-13 22:35:30

Oh and I would speak to his teacher but when I mentioned the lack of friend thing she said it was good to not have a set friend at their age?

SpottyBagOfTumble Fri 04-Jan-13 22:37:30

And yes to getting distracted when asked to do things! More interested in what his brother hasn't done, not noticing he himself hasn't actually done it either! (But that just sibling rivalry I think!)

And thank you again for replying!

Ok, I will stop now! <sits on hands>

More ticks with the eccentricity, the dislike of loud noises and the lack of coordination.

DS2 is doing really well now, things seem to have got easier for him as he has got older, for multiple reasons. He is now in Y6 and we have found a secondary school for him that seems a good fit, so feeling positive at the moment.

Children develop at different rates, and it takes some longer than others to get the hang of social communication 'unwritten rules'. In the autumn of Y3, the school SENCO felt that the difference between DS1 and his peers was significant enough to ask for an assessment by the educational psychologist. We then wrote down a list of our concerns, much as you have done above, and took it to the GP who referred to a paediatrician.

Sorry, meant DS2 not DS1. I call my children by each others' names in real life too.

SpottyBagOfTumble Fri 04-Jan-13 22:40:47

Ok, so it is just an uneven development thing and I shouldn't worry?

MrsSham Fri 04-Jan-13 22:41:19

Dds reception teacher said that but I think that unfortunately dd was happy in r with this but she did then miss out on forging friendships as now she wants to be included these groups have already formed. My dds reception teacher was great but in many ways she did single my dd out and placed her on pedestal so once others are now catching up with her she struggles. She got somewhat cocky before leaving year r and in y1 when she was still top of class for everything this didnt help either. Now y2 others are catching up with her she gets a bit disgruntled and sees this as her falling behind. So she has taken a bit of a knock of confidence that she has had built up for her.

MrsSham Fri 04-Jan-13 22:44:16

I think its difficult to tell spotty it could be or it could be signs of asd lor similar. that's why I would ask for school to check on this this term so you can get a better understanding before the next school. Either way having a good understanding of his learning needs would certainly be very beneficial.

MrsSham Fri 04-Jan-13 22:45:31

Next school year not next school.

I meant that in some children it's an uneven development thing and in others it's Asperger's, ADD, ADHD, dyspraxia, sensory processing disorder, pragmatic language disorder or more than one of the above.

I think the fact that you are concerned means that it's time to pursue an assessment, but others might disagree.

(DS2 was diagnosed with ADHD when he was 8 and Asperger's when he was 9, but that doesn't mean your son will be.)

SpottyBagOfTumble Fri 04-Jan-13 22:47:11

So what do we do when we think a teacher may not 'get' our children what are like this? Ds did not get along well with the year r teacher at all. To the point where she kept on making comments about him the next year when I was having parent teacher conference about my other son! Year one teacher was awesome and they really seemed to click. She got him, used his science interest to motivate him etc. this years teacher, who to Be fair has only been in a term, seems to have taken a dislike to him as well an dhas given him detentions when other children have not had one for the same 'infringements'. but that could just be my reading of it! I am sure they are all great at their jobs!

MrsSham Fri 04-Jan-13 22:50:34

Detentions at his age? Should they not get your permission for this?

It may be worth asking to talk with her and the senco or if she is on mat maybe the head or deputy. To have your concerns raised with them.

SpottyBagOfTumble Fri 04-Jan-13 22:51:37

How do we go about getting an assessment? As above, he doesn't rub along well with current teacher. I had a hard time convincing the head that it was school anxiety last year, despite the evidence. His yr one teacher eventually admitted a few days before term ended it was school and not home, but the start of this year the head make a remark that implied I had been fuelling it. (Not true. But the head and I don't get along really)

Also feel wierd raising it as other son I am thinking might be dyslexic, although he has the fab year one teacher has out him on extended reading program support this term and daily reading with him. But I don't want them to think I am one of those mothers that is convinced there is something wrong with her children when there isn't!

If he does have one or more of the things I've listed (or something I haven't) then that's where a diagnosis can help.

For example, a diagnosis of Asperger's has meant that the Autism Advisory Service visit the school and give the teachers information and tips on how to help DS2 more. His class teachers have also been on day courses to understand the condition more. I agree that nothing beats the teacher 'getting' your child, but in the absence of that, accessing the additional needs / learning support provision has really helped DS2.

SpottyBagOfTumble Fri 04-Jan-13 22:57:12

Playtime detention, not after school. We weren't told about it from teacher. It was on a Friday, the afternoon of which was the school fair and ds didn't tell us until that night. I was advised on here to not bring it up with the teacher as it was over and done with, despite me not agreeingiwth it due to mitigating circumstances and it beingn our fault, not ds's. teacher has also had a go at ds for something that was again my fault, but this has been a hard term for him with a new teacher and me being very ill so ut of routine. I feel teacher has pigeon holed us as crap parents but we aren't! We are usually very on the ball but I was bed bound and in a lot of pain, we have no family support nd dh was doing his best to pick up all the school hustle and bustle when the is usually my 'job'. Dh did fantastic, considering! But she took none of that into consideration, despit dh writing to inform her of circumstances, and gave him detention anyway.

fattybum Fri 04-Jan-13 22:59:35

My ds1 sounds similar. Not so much comprehension, but affectionate to the point of annoying, wants to hang off you, lovely that he's affectionate but SO in your face, forgets things all the time eg flushing the toilet, closing draws etc.

Can also get very silly, hard to calm down, fidgety. If he gets into bed for a cuddle he ends up irritating you cos he's non stop moving. Seems to need instructions to do/not do anything. No common sense. Breaks things due to inquisitiveness.

He's also bright, caring, loving and I love him to bits. Maybe I'm too optimistic, but I just think it will all click with age!

Ds2 is 4 and everything comes much easier for him, he just seems to get things much easier, doesn't need to be told everything.

An EP assessment can help with what happens at school, also helps with specific learning difficulties. As far as I know, it's the SENCO that arranges this.

We got DS2 assessed by the following route: taking list of concerns to GP who referred to paediatrician. Paediatrician gave one diagnosis but wasn't confident about giving the second, so referred on to a tertiary centre. Tertiary centre had child psychiatrist and child psychologist who made other diagnosis.

There's a lot of information about the assessment process on the Special Needs - Children board.

MrsSham Fri 04-Jan-13 23:02:33

That is terrible I would have brought it up with them. My dds teacher y2 aswel has been a bit harsh in comment about remembering things. I just think unfortunately the expectation is higher maybe in prep for juniors. However I personally would not take detentions very well with children this age. It's pointless and unfair and also brings a lot of attention regarding behaviour from other children who revel in taking shock when other children get into trouble so publicly.

It doesn't seem like the school is very positive for your ds, how is it for your dcs, seems difficult if you and head dont get on.

SpottyBagOfTumble Fri 04-Jan-13 23:02:51

Thanks. Do you take ds with you to the gp? I imagine it would be easier to talk about it without them there initially? ESP. At this age where they know exactly what you are talking about.

You could ask for a double appt then he sits out in the waiting room with a relative or one of you for the first half then comes in to join you. Or you could just go on your own, but be armed with a diary or journal or list of concerns and how long they've been going on for.

We did take him to the appt with the paediatrician, but the consultant already had a copy of our list of concerns so we didn't have to go through them within DS2's hearing.

SpottyBagOfTumble Fri 04-Jan-13 23:07:52

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

SpottyBagOfTumble Fri 04-Jan-13 23:09:18

Thank you all for being so helpful. thanks

So, do you all think I should book an appointment with gp?

MrsSham Fri 04-Jan-13 23:10:21

I would talk with school first, but not sure what threeb would suggest she has direct experience.

Yes, and I'd explain the issue and ask whether or not you need a double appointment. I would go with a list summarising each of the concerns you've shared with us on this thread. Also a timeline of difficulties he has had at school. Keep a copy at home as they may keep your list for his notes.

If you don't already do so, start keeping copies of any letters you receive in the course of this process and keep a record of any difficulties he has at school from now on, with dates. The process can involve more than one organisation and communication occasionally falls between the cracks, so it's good to have evidence of appointments and meetings so you know you didn't imagine them. smile

We had the experience that school were extremely helpful. It was the SENCO that suggested we make the appt with the GP. But I also have friends with a son at a different school who went straight to the GP and that went fine too.

SpottyBagOfTumble Fri 04-Jan-13 23:22:04

Thanks both.

When you say keep a record, do you mean conversations with teachers as well? Their reactions? Detentions and their reasons? Or just the big stuff? Or just the formal stuff such as the date he had appointment with doc re anxiety? (And do. I include schools dismissal of this issue?)

I meant more the formal stuff, unless the relationship with school were to deteriorate.

For example, DS2 had a follow-up appt with consultant paediatrician last Spring which we asked to rearrange as he was on an overnight school trip. We received a letter with a rescheduled appt, so DH and I both independently recorded the date in our diaries from the letter, then shredded the letter, thinking we didn't need it any more. DH and I both took the morning off work and we took DS2 out of school to attend the appt. When we got there, not only did the appt not exist, but there was no record of any appt for us at all on the computer. We had dropped out of the system. Despite the fact that DS2 is supposed to be seen every 6 months. In the end we had to go back to the GP who had to write a re-referral letter to the paediatrician. Now we keep copies of all letters! grin

SpottyBagOfTumble I'm going to bed soon but you're very welcome to PM me if you have any other questions, or to let me know how you get on.

SpottyBagOfTumble Fri 04-Jan-13 23:39:31

Thank you. And thank you again for your help!

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