Have just realised that dd's bad behaviour coincides with something else

[nutcracker]

Which is......her hand washing obsession. It comes and goes, but is back with avengance today.

She has just gone to go to bed and went for a wee. Her trousers got a bit wet whilst on the floor so i said she could change them. She wanted to do it right away, but i said well wash your hands and brush your teeth and i'll go and sort them out. Straight away she started to get anxious and aggitated and said she must put her trousers on before she washed her hands.
I asked her why and she said because if she washed her hands and then had to pull trousers up, she would touch have to touch her bum as the trousers went up and so her hands would have germs on them again.
I explained that they wouldn't and infact if she didn't wash them then she would be putting germs on the trousers.
She said ok but only if i put them on for her.
I feigned a bad back then to get her to do it herself, she did it by holding the trousers with the tips of her fingers and no where near the waistband. As soon as they were up she held her hands up and said 'I need to wash them now they are dirty.
I let her, but then she said as i had helped her my hands were dirty too and that i wasn't allowed to touch her quilt, she started to get in a real tiz again, but i managed to calm her down and she got into bed, but i noticed that she is lying with her hands out and trying not to touch the bed.

Not really sure what any of this means but i have noticed that when her behaviour is particularly bad, she also starts obsessing about germs on her hands.

[Mum2girls]

Bless her....how old is she? Does she engage in messy play at school or nursery and if so, how does it affect her.

Is she too young to sit down and talk about it? My DD2 (just 2) has a real thing about changing her top after a wash (after eating) - absolutely insits it's wet/ dirty and has an absolute fit if I refuse to change her....so you have my sympathies.

[nutcracker]

Hadn't thought of that mum2girls, it's her parents meeting next friday so i will ask then. I know she doesn't like having dirty hands, never has really but the main prob is the germs thing. She associates the toilet, and her bottom with germs.
I have explained to her that yes the toilet does have germs and so do bottoms, but that as long as she washes her hands after wards she is fine. I have also told her that pulling your pants up or trousers or whatever does not get you germs.

I noticed when she got her toothbrush she squashed herself flat against the bath so that no part of her body would touch the loo.

She is 5 by the way.

[tamum]

I don;t want to sound alarmist, but I wonder if it's worth posting this thread again with a more specific title, nutty? There are a few people on here with OCD or with relatives with OCD; maybe they would have some useful advice?

[Blossomhill]

I really, really think you should talk to your gp or hv nutty and maybe get dd referred (I really hope that hasn't alarmed or upset youxxx). It's just you have mentioned your concerns with dd for quite a while now.
There is so much help out there, you just need to be pointed in the right direction
Have also read your other post too about today
Hugs (((Blossomhill)))xxx

[nutcracker]

I have posted about it before Tamum and did get some very good advice, and mainly i tried to distract her from the hand washing which did work well at the time.
It tends to come in phases though for some reason and today was quite bad as i could see the thought of having germs on her hands was making her upset and anxious, and it was hard to distract her.

Blossomhill - I am going to ring the health centre i think and see if i can speak to someone there. My gp is pretty crap tbh and so is my h.v but i may be able to speak to the nursery nurse who is quite good usually.

Am also going to speak to her teacher at her parents meeting.

It's hard though cos her teachers think she is so well behaved that i feel like they don't believe me sometimes.

[tamum]

Sorry, I hadn't seen it before. Poor little girl, I feel so sorry for her (and you, of course).

[misdee]

i really think u need to speak to someone about your dd's behaviour and her obsessing about germs. she sounds such a stressed out little girl. i watched trisha (sad i know) a bit yesterday at my mums, and a lady on their had OCD and said when she is stressed then the rituals etc get worse.

not saying your dd has OCD but probably best to get checked.

[nutcracker]

No prob Tamum. I feel sorry for her too as she seemed so scared of the germs.

[nutcracker]

Misdee you get to watch trisha, i have round the clock cbeebies.

I think you are right though about the stress thing, it does all seem to slot together, and she was very stressed after the performance on the way home (as was i).

[misdee]

i was at my mums, thats how i got to see it lol. she did this thing on air, where she had to check her keys and purse were in her pocket 5 times to keep her calm. you could see how hard she was trying to control it, but i really felt for her.

[mummytojames]

nutcraker dont want to scare you but it does sound like she has got ocd and dont worry from what i have managed to read on the subject its like a fase that kids go through and grow out of on there own accord please get it cheacked if its worrying you but at the age of five they go through so many thing i would worry to much about it (easy for me to say i know)

[beansprout]

I had the ritual version of OCD as a kid. Had this impossible and irrational routine whereby I had to kiss teddies a certain number of times with lights on/off etc etc. Also had to run up and down the hall in a certain way before I could go anywhere else. It's easy for me to say "I grew out of it" but I would think that there is a lot more info around these days? I hope so. Does she seem ok with it?

[jangly]

Nutcracker - really think you should see your doctor about this. There is no way a little girl of five should be worrying about germs, and definitely not to this extent. I think she needs some help, perhaps from a child psychologist.

[WigWamBam]

I have OCD, although I'm not a hand-washer, and mine definitely gets worse when I'm stressed. A lot of kids do get set in rituals without it being OCD, but if she has got some form of OCD then stress is possibly a factor and might well explain why her obsessions are worse when her behaviour is bad. I have found GPs are often dismissive of OCD and obsessive behaviour, but I would say that it would be wise to get her checked out - insist on a referral if your GP is reluctant as OCD escalates very quickly into something very hard to control.

[Jimjams]

just to agree- ds1's obsessions are far worse when he is anxious....