3yr old and 5 yr old fighting - help!

[redheadmum]

hi...I have a DD 5 1/2 yrs old and a DS 2 3/4 yr old. Since the Easter hols they incessantly fought. Mostly he hits/bites/kicks then DD screams and somet imes hits back but mostly cries (and comes to me). I end up doing naughty step, telling him off and making him say sorry. Its just constant and I'm at a loss at what to do as nothing seems effective.

And so it goes on.. I'm getting tired so just end up shouting and getting irritated. how can I change what I'm doing to stop him getting so much attention for hitting? I'm finding it hard to handle with the two of them

any suggestions?????

[Astrophe]

sympathies. My DC are 2 and 4, and have recetly started this too. Its very wearing. I read "Siblings without rivalry" which I really liked, and I think I need to read that again. Its mostly relevat for older kids (say, 5+ ish), but had enough good ideas I could use to give me some etra enthusiasm. I'd really reccomend you buy it, I got it 2nd hand on amazon for a few £ including post.

[redheadmum]

thanks! yes I'm feeling very worn down...could you tell me one thing that you did that worked well?

would like to start off the day better!!!!!!

[Astrophe]

Er ...I did read it a while ago...hang on, I'll get the book...

[Astrophe]

oh, naturally, I now cannot find the jolly thing - think I may have lent it out.

Things to try though (not based on book, but off the top of my head):

Take away the toy they are fighting over, and put it in a safe place until they have decided how to share it.

Gather them both onto your lap and give them a cuddle and a 'it can be hard to share/play nicely, can't it' to see if you can diffuse the situation.

Put them each in a seperate room to play. I do this at least once a day. Not in a vindictive way, but in recognition of the fact that sometimes people just need some time to themselves, and I don't think my kids know how to recognise that feeling yet!

Mine squabble more when they are bored - maybe try some painting / gardening / dancing / whatever?

Hope something there helps

[nellyraggbagg]

Mine are nearly 4 (DD) and nearly 6 (DS), and they start squabbling the minute they get up. They squabble about who gets to look at the cow on the milk-bottle picture; about who presses the button on the kettle; about who is looking at whom; about who has one millimetre more milk than the other; about whose slice of toast is bigger (they are exactly the same!!!) ... and so on.

I have no magic solution, but all I can say is that you are not alone!!

I have tried giving them 10 minutes each of undivided positive attention (reading, colouring - whatever). A kitchen timer is handy for toy-squabbles (they can have it until the bell rings, then it's handover time). Throw a dice first; the one with the higher number gets first turn. General bickering (more annoying than anything, I find): they do it less outside than inside, so I turf them out in the garden a fair bit. Penalty for fighting is having to come indoors on their own for 3/5 minutes. If I get really cross with them simultaneously, that works wonders - they then gang up on me and have little conversations about "meanie Mummy". They do sometimes play really nicely, too - so it can happen!!

Good luck!!

[lilyloo]

As soon as i saw this i though dd and ds.
Same here incessant arguing about anything all day !

[Astrophe]

Yes! Agree re the kitchen timer, and sending them outside. Mine also play better in their room where I can't see them - I think they don't bother to try and sort ot out if they know I am right on hand.

Also lots of positive talk about what lovely brother and sister they are (when they are being nice), and praise them to anyone who will listen ("do you know, postman, that DD and DS have been playing so nicely this afternoon - they ove each other so much!").

Mine adore Peppa Pig, and I often remind them of how much Peppa and George love each other, and how nicely they play, and this helps as well!

[Astrophe]

redhead, just reading you op again - is it always/mostly DS starting the fights by being agressive? My DS is quite agressive sometimes, and the thing that works best is to teach DD to go and tell him "You are not to push me, it hurts", or whatever. Its much more effective than me saying it.

[redheadmum]

yes, the main fighting is about DS hitting/being aggressive towards DD.

I'm definitely finding the agression/energy levels so much different with my boy. He is much more physical in every sense, including the whole hitting thing.

I do think that he's getting far too much reaction to his hitting. I've noticed that she is practically hysterical even if he just taps her (cue grin from DS and then an attempt to see what level he can achieve from a real clonk)

I've tried to get her to say 'stop that I don't like it, it hurts' etc, but it doesn't seem to be effective and I end up getting into the fray. I want to try and encourage him and not always be negative. i do think that sometime he just has this overflow of energy and he doesn't mean to hurt. He looks quite confused by the reaction.

sorry long post...thanks for all the messages so far. It's great to see that I'm not the only one...

[Astrophe]

my boy and girl are like this too - DS is not a mean child, but has energy coming out his ears, and also has learned that its funny/gets a reaction to hit/push. I think my DS also doesn't know how to express his wants / dislikes yet, so he hits/snatches etc. Maybe I need to pit some more effort into teaching him what to say, rather than DD.

Another thing that doesn't help is that my two play rough and tumble a lot - chase each other, jump on the sofa and wrestle, and they both love it...until, inevitably, one of them wants to stop, and the other one doesn't. I think DS has trouble knowing what is play and what is too rough, but I guess its something they learn over time

[redheadmum]

oh, that sounds very familiar too!

I just think he is rather young to understand how to play, social skills etc.

ps laughed out loud at the squabbling over cows pic etc nellyr

little critters!

have to say I feel so much more cheerful just hearing your stories. Have been feeling rather alone in the madness of my house...!!

[Astrophe]

don't feel alone, they all do it at their age I think, and they will grow out of it.

Sometimes I think I put too much energy into trying to solve this kind of problem, which is really just developmental, and will pass in its own time as the kids learn and grow. I think my energy is better spent on figuring out how I will cope best, and how we can all stay reasonably happy and friendly whilst we weather the phase.

Hang in there

Tomorrow is sure to be better.

[redheadmum]

thanks A! yes, I sometimes think they're not too bothered to solve the argument per se...

go on tell me what you do to handle it! I've just ended up shouting (again) as DS has just thrown something hard in my face and pushed DD over and done a happy dance.

sigh

[Ledodgy]

MY 5 year old dd and 2.5 year old ds are exactly the same it's infuriating isn't it?

[nellyraggbagg]

We had huge fights over Lego after school today. DD was angelic the whole time DS was at school, then started whingeing at me and pushing him as soon as he got back. After much screaming and fighting over the pesky Lego, I got them to count out so many pieces each (same colour and size, naturally, or they'll fight about who gets which colour). Then DD started offering DS her pieces, and they played quite nicely for a while - until DD decided she wanted the pieces back. Oh joy.

I counted to ten before giving her a dull lecture on not handing things over if she actually wanted to keep them. The good thing here was that DS then became all smug about how good he is, and behaved himself for the rest of the day.

I have - so far - only shouted at them once in six years, so can't advise much on that one - but that's only because I'm not shouty (I go in for making them feel guilty instead ) But I am sometimes very tempted... and DH certainly makes up for it!!

I think boys really are a law unto themselves. I think the only way they can express themselves is physically, hence all the kicking and pushing. My DS still does it when he's thwarted - he can be absolutely foul. DD can be equally foul, though - but in a different, girly way ("You're not coming to my party" is her current response to being told off - and she's not even having a party!!!)

Sorry this is all a bit useless, but I do sympathise. And if anyone has a magical cure, I'd love to know it!!

[Astrophe]

What do I do to keep sane? Hmm, I leave the room if I am about to lose it, I try not to sweat small things, and to just switch off to whinging, so I can save myself for when they're actualy fighting, I try to have a "oh dear, isn't it a shame we aren't getting along" approach, rather than a "who's fault was this" approach, I get out of the house a lot (groups/park/friends houses), I have a few standard borebom saviours - baking, painting, glue, park, dancing etc.

Nothing miraculous, sorry. There have been times when I've really struggled with them (mostly the older one), but I am coping ok at the moment. I had PND before, which obviously made things tough as well.

As for shouting once in 6 years nellyragg...Well.

[nellyraggbagg]

Astrophe - nothing clever about not shouting: it's just the way I was made. When I do shout (albeit once in six years), I really, really shout. My Dad's the same, so it's evidently genetic!

My so-called sanity savers are pretty similar to yours (painting, craft, sticking, musical instruments, silly games etc etc etc), plus the 'leaving the room' thing.

One thing my dcs do that's really irritating is tell tales on one another - which I discourage at all costs. They do it even when I'm standing there watching them. So DD calls DS a poo-poo head, and DS hits her in return - then he says: "Mummeeeee, DD called me a poo-poo head", and she says: "Mummmmmeeeeeee, DS hit me!!!" As if I couldn't see or hear them!

[Astrophe]

Nelly -telling tales is awful isn't it. You kids are lucky that you are not shouty. We are a shouty family (not always cross, but always loud!).

[nellyraggbagg]

Oh, the DCs and DH are shouty. This is probably why nobody ever listens to me - I can't be heard above the racket!!

Argument on the way to DS's school this morning over who owned a piece of stone spotted by both DCs on the pavement...

[redheadmum]

OK I think I've been falling for the sort it out approach, especially when it comes to hitting. If I see him do it then he has to say sorry and give a kiss/cuddle. I try not to put it at octane levels, just be calm (!)If it continues then the naughty step (not bothered)..continues I shout because I've lost it and run out of strategies.

Having said that I've just lost it this morning. School is closed today (don't start me on that one!) and so I thought I'd take the kids swimming. Plan: get out of house, do something physical and fun = less arguing and hitting. DS kept hitting me hard in the face as well as his sister. I told him to stop or we would have to leave. He didn't. We left.

anyway...if one kid hits the other do you just let them sort it out? I'm trying not to blame and make it all negative on my boy...but the reality is he's the one doing the hitting. My girl can be evil in other ways (yes, the party thing etc) but she is very good not hitting him back.

sorry Nelly but ONCE in 6 years! I was never a shouter....until recently!!!!

[nellyraggbagg]

Hitting - no, I intervene. Assuming I see it, that is - otherwise I'd spend my entire day listening to "he did this" and "she did that"... Hitting is not acceptable, and they do have to apologise to one another. If DD hits, she goes in the naughty corner, and if DS hits, he gets a Bad Marble in his marble scale-pan and a dreary lecture on empathy (may seem unfair, but different personalities need different sanctions in our book - and DS has problems with empathy, hence we're trying to work on that one...). Ditto spitting, pushing, kicking, nipping, biting (DS has a sudden biting phase just before Christmas - nipped in the bud by Granny having a word), and throwing things directly at one another (items that are just generally thrown go in the cellar).

I will put up with taunting, name-calling, and generally annoying one another (just about) - but I won't tolerate physical violence towards one another. Still haven't recovered from one of DD's friends biting her in the playground - and the mother buying him an ice cream to make him feel better about it!!!

Good luck!!!

[redheadmum]

thanks everyone - feel much better for your tips and stories! (ice cream for biting??????!)

have had a much better day today...both DD and DS were really upset by my shouting..and I've tried to take a positive approach, lots of cuddles and positive re-inforcement.

Must hint heavily to DH that I am in need of a spa..............ha ha

[nellyraggbagg]

I put a spa day on my Christmas list, and DH promised it would happen - but has it? Not likely!!!

Maybe if I shout at him, I'll get one

[Astrophe]

So glad you've had a better day red

Re hitting - I intervene too, although must confess, if they are not actually hurting each other (just messing about, or irritating each other), I sometimes turn a blind eye, and they often sort it out, or one of them goes and does something else. If it looks like someone might get hurt I always intervene (if low on patience, I just seperate them, no telling tales etc), and if its obvious I've seen them I intervene, as I don't want them to think I don't mind them hitting!