Help! My son has taken to hurling verbal abuse at me. Any advice?

[nellyraggbagg]

My DS is six next week and has always been quite hard work. He was a very tantrummy toddler, and now he is still inclined to turn any emotion (fear, frustration, insecurity etc) into anger. Normally (is this normal?!), he goes lumimous red and kicks and screams if things don't go his way (or if he's scared by something). Over the last few days, though, he's started screaming at me "You stupid mother!!!!!" when I've stopped him from (eg) hitting DD (nearly 4) over the head with something, or have asked him to pick up the clothes he threw around his bedroom.

I know that "you stupid mother" really doesn't figure highly on the list of insults (it's presumably the worst insult he can think of at the moment, thank goodness), but I really do object to what I see as verbal abuse. I have tried ignoring it altogether and withdrawing all attention (which has made no difference) - but I suppose I feel I have to stop it somehow before he gets older and learns worse insults!

Or will he have grown out of it by the time he hears worse words?!

I don't feel that putting him in a "naughty" corner would achieve anything, as that just seems to make him feel like the injured party, plus I don't want him to get the idea that it's "naughty" to be angry. I've withdrawn his 10-minute computer time as a specific punishment for rudeness, but I'm at a loss. Does anyone else have experience of this kind of thing?

If it gives anyone any clues, DS didn't start school until the last term of Reception, since when he has been a model pupil (bearing certificates for being kind and helpful and so on!) However, he has struggled with the social side of things (he did a few mornings at nursery school before starting school, but tended to talk to the staff), and still prefers the company of adults to children (though is getting better with other children as a result of school). His teacher says he is extraordinarily bright (not as much fun as it sounds, believe me), and is giving him plenty to do, so he can't be bored at school. We don't do any extra-curricular activities, so he can't feel over-taxed out of school. I take him for long walks to burn off boyish energy, but it seems not to work! He is horrendously jealous of DD, and has been since the day she was born (to add insult to injury, she's as good as gold - at the moment!!) DH and I are both at home full-time, so he was rather spoilt with adult attention. There tend to be fewer outbursts if I have just him on his own, so I think jealousy is a really big anger-trigger (again, I don't want to make him feel that he's being punished for feeling jealous!)

I am feeling a bit desperate today, and would dearly love advice!

[madcol]

You poor thing. No advice as not qualified but feel your desperation.
'You stupid mother' sounds very hurtful to me an you're right to want to stop this.

Good luck I hope someone can help.

[BoysAreLikeDogs]

Aww Nelly sory to hear you are having a tough time at the moment.

Have you thought about distract and ignore?

The principle is the fact that calling you hurtful names is an effective way of getting attention, even if it turns out to be a'telling off'. SO ignore the name calling, try to divert attention, and catch him being good - positive reinforcement rather than negative, IYSWIM ?

Good luck

[Thankyouandgoodnight]

I think he should be punished for innapproiate behaviour - after all, if he doesn't get reprimanded for dishing out verbal abuse at home, he is going to be entirely confused if anyone else does it outside of home - and they will one day, or they will just avoid him. BUT he does need to be taught how to chanel his emotions. So, if he feels angry, he needs to be taught how to calm down and voice what it is that he's actually feeling and why in a normal talking voice. Maybe introduce a 'reflecting spot' or a punch bag in a garage where he goes until he calms down and then you both sit down and discuss what it was that upset him? Is it possible if he's ok at school that he needs some routine/ boundaries at home? Kids generally feel safer when there is as they know what's happening more and can operate within that?

Just thoughts - do feel free to ignore!

Another thought is that perhaps if he went off to karate or something, that might give him a boyish outlet where he also learns respect and how to and how not to conduct physical behaviour?

[oxfordmcboing]

no experience of this yet...ds1 is 3....but if he doesn't do extra things outside of school and home does he have any other chance to socialise with other children...and to see that to get on with other people you have to moderate your behaviour or will end up being rather unpopular...he sounds like hes feeling quite sad and he should be teaming up with his sister and playing..or is that naive??

i do believe that if you ask a reasonable request of your child..like pick up the clothes...you should have a civil response and that he should jolly well do it...

play dates from school...my son is at preschool and is so chuffed if anyone ever comes back to our house

[Thankyouandgoodnight]

Oh and add some quality one to one time on a daily basis where you and he do something that HE enjoys.

[Twiglett]

it sounds like he is missing firm boundaries and is getting confused

I would go ballistic if a child spoke to me like that in a serious manner. The child would find himself in his bedroom and apologies would be demanded

he is a model pupil because he knows expectations, he doesn't appear to know what they are at home / in his family

sit down with him as a family and draw up family rules that you're all happy with .. consider areas for all members of the family so columns for mummy, daddy, ds and dd

consider areas such as behaviour, respect, appropriate language, chores etc

[neolara]

Sounds really rough on you. I'm sorry you are having a tough time.

I wonder whether it might be helpful to try to get him to deal more appropriately with his feelings. Somehow getting the message across that there is nothing wrong with being angry / scared / frustrated, but he needs to learn a better way to deal with these emotions. Somehow helping him manage the transition from how toddlers deal with bad feelings (e.g. by throwing a physical or verbal tantrum) to how older children and adults deal with bad feelings (identifying what the feeling is, working out what caused the bad feeling, being able to talk about the feelings and issues so that they manage them effectively.)

The first step might be to help him to identify what he is actually feeling and to get him to label it. Initially you could help him by explicitly labelling his feeling for him e.g. "You seem really angry at the moment" or "I guess you're really frustrated right now" etc. If it's all too fraught at the time, talk about it afterwards e.g. "You seemed really cross earlier when I had to go and give DD her bath" (or whatever). You could talk about your own feelings (appropriately to your DS's age ) so he learns it's ok to talk about emotions. e.g. "I was really fed up when we got stuck in the traffic jam. I really felt like shouting". Once your DS is able to identify how he is feeling, you can then go on to talk about how to deal with the unpleasant feelings better.

Having said all of that, I would also try ignoring what you can, having a short time out if he crosses a line that you feel is unacceptable and going overboard on the catching him being good. But I'm sure you're probably doing all of that already.

Also, if you haven't already tried it, I thought the "How to Talk so your Kids will Listen" book was great. I know lots of others do too. It might be worth a shot.

Good luck.

[nellyraggbagg]

Thanks for all the support and advice so far!!

I had wondered about a calming-down area, and, funnily, had wondered about karate!!

Play-dates are a good idea. It's unfortunate that there are very few local children at his school (private school, so huge catchment area), and there are not that many children around generally where we live. Plus practically every child in his class has after-school activities. The times we've specifically invited children to play after school, DS has grumbled (because it means he can't get on with his reading) - but then has in fact greatly enjoyed playing with them. I do think he'd benefit hugely from regularly playing with local children - we keep saying it's a shame there aren't any children in our road for ours to play with!!

Boundaries are the first thing I've thought about (non-stop!!) I do feel that the boundaries are clear on the whole. It can be tricky with us both being at home (it's difficult to be consistent with yourself sometimes, never mind when you're parenting along with someone else!), but normally I make the rules and DH backs me up. We have no problems with DD's behaviour (beyond normal three-year-old stuff); she knows the rules and abides by them. DS is very good on lots of fronts (always sits at the table for meals, all of which we eat as a family, has never in his life got out of bed after being put there at 7pm, helps to tidy up etc etc). He is also capable of playing really nicely with DD for long periods of time, and I do make a point of spending special time just with him between school and tea (he loves this!). It's just these incomprehensible rages that seem to come from nowhere that have me completely baffled.

I sometimes think it must be school-related (he sometimes comes out of school in a filthy mood, which suggests that someone has said or done something that he doesn't like, and he then feels safe enough at home to take it out on us). But, as I say, I'm at a loss tonight.

[nellyraggbagg]

Neolara - I had wondered about the "labelling the feelings" thing, too, so it's interesting that you mention it. There's certainly no point trying to reason with him when he's mid-rage, but he does seem more responsive afterwards. He's often extra-specially nice after an anger-attack!

He did apologise - unprompted - for the stupid Mummy episode earlier this week, which was a very tiny consolation. He also sounded as if he might have meant it - though obviously not enough to deter him from repeating it today!!

[avenanap]

It sounds like you need to find him a sports club so that he can get rid of some of his anger and frustration in a constructive way. Rugby's good, it has good, firm boundaries and the teachers are normally fantastic. Are there any beavers or cubs groups that he can join aswell?

My ds is very bright but behind socially, I was recommended a book called the Unwritten Rules of Friendship by another mnetter, it has worked a treat.

It is not acceptable for him to be rude to you and you need to put a stop to it now before it gets any worse. It's ok for you to tell him that his behaviour is upsetting you or that it's embarassing you, the trick here is to make him feel like he's really hurt you by being rude. It sounds cruel but it is worse to let this carry on.

There's a possibility that the work he's doing is not hard enough for him and he's showing you that he's frustrated. You need to ask him about this.

[Janni]

it is definitely not OK for him to speak to you like that and you need to deal with it now or it will get worse. I know others will have given good advice about strategies x

[nellyraggbagg]

Thanks!!

He's starting Beavers next month. He is not enthusiastic, but I think that running around doing boy-things will go down well when it comes to it.

I am working on the sport-thing. He's the only boy in his class who doesn't do after-school football. Along with everything else, he does a great line in refusing to be like everyone else. Hence he has never touched a football or watched a single game of anything involving balls. His ambition is to be chief organist and choirmaster of Westminster Abbey, which is precisely what makes me think he needs to join the Beavers.

Maybe I'll feel better once I've slept on it. Doesn't help that DH is away all week, and I have nobody to moan at!

[avenanap]

Just take him along to watch first. There's probably a jonior orchestra he can join if he behaves himself somewhere near where you are. If you look for a rugby or martial arts club he won't be doing the same as the other boys in his class. My ds does fencing, he has to think, wait and respond.

That's quite an ambition. I wish him look. I think you should post this in the Gifted and Talented section aswell.

[nellyraggbagg]

Thanks, aveanap. If nothing else, you have reminded me that his ambitions are quite nice! (I sometimes lose track of the good bits when I'm so focussed on the less good bits...).

Fencing sounds good, and I believe there's a place near us that does taster sessions in fencing.

Thanks again!

[avenanap]

They may start at 8, ds's club does, something about insurance. Museums sometimes do activities for children. He will change as he gets older, just remember the boundaries. Ask the school for some help aswell.

[ingles2]

I not sure anyone has mentioned this yet but as he hasn't been at school that long it could be a possibility. The strain of behaving impeccably all day at school quite often leaves dc's feeling tired, cross and frustrated. If he is working hard and trying hard socially this might well be the problem . I had this with ds1 and it passes.
That said, I agree with making it very clear now that verbal abuse to you is not acceptable.

[cory]

Boys often get more aggressive at this age- raise in testosterone levels. They're as hormonal as a teenager or a pregnant woman.

What I also find with my son is that he calls out similar things in frustration when he has to obey an order he doesn't like- in a sense, it's a recognition of my authority. So I tend not to get too upset about it. After all, he still has to have his bath when I tell him to, whether I'm stupid or not.

I do tell him off for calling me names, but I just don't feel that hurt.

And he has not got problems with understanding that he can't do this outside the house; he is polite to other children and adults.

I just feel that calling it verbal abuse is giving a very small boy more power than he should have.

[nellyraggbagg]

You are all so kind!

He has always been inclined to kick and scream when thwarted, but it's definitely got worse since he started school. He is terrified of being told off by his teacher, and on the one occasion he was told off, he came home in floods of tears (though, typically, expressed this by telling me that he was going to chop her head off). I've sometimes thought that he stores it up all day, then takes it out on us as he feels "safe" enough to do it at home. The people I've mentioned it to in real life all say that if he is fine with other children and adults, I don't need to worry much as he obviously knows the rules perfectly well - just needs an outlet for his frustration about not being able to get his own way all the time!

I don't feel hurt by being called a stupid mother - I think what gets me is more the fear that, if I don't stop it now, "stupid mother" could become "stupid cow", and then far worse (once he hears the words - which he's bound to at some point, unfortunately enough!)

The hormone thing is interesting. I didn't know they have yet another surge at this age, though to judge by the general noise levels and the way he crashes around the place even when being "quiet", I had wondered!

I saw a chilren's punchbag in the Argos catalogue, so maybe that would make a good birthday present?!

[AbbeyA]

It is perhaps a good idea to have something like a punchbag so that if he feels aggressive you can direct him to it. I would stop him calling you 'stupid mother' the very first time,because, as you say it can easily get to 'stupid cow'. If you don't let it pass the first time then they don't do it. It is one thing that I will absolutely not tolerate in any shape or form. I never say anything like that to them and so they have no excuse.

[TeeBee]

Fantastic! A child who doesn't want to follow the crowd. Will probably go a very long way.

[nellyraggbagg]

Thank you, TeeBee! I do admire his determination not to follow the crowd (I am not a great crowd-follower myself), but do occasionally wish he'd just Be Normal!!

I'm finding it tricky to buy him a birthday present, as he dislikes anything with a brand name ("everyone else likes them..."), anything to do with transport (ditto), and anything to do with toys, really (ditto again). Sigh. It looks as if it will be books on textile mills, then.

Funnily enough, DD is the exact opposite - Disney mad (if it said Disney Princess on peas, she'd eat them), and if she even sees random girls in the street with something, she has to have it come what may (she doesn't get it, needless to say...) Easy life now, but I dread to think what she'll be like when she's 15...

[cory]

I think it's a waste of time to try to deduce what our dc's will be like at some later stage.

Dd was a terrible drama queen when she was 7, but is now a mature and laidback 11yo with a great sense of humour; not at all difficult to get on with though she has physically reached puberty.

Ds was an easy baby and a laidback toddler but is now going through the 6/7 hormonal stage. I still have hopes that he may change in time.

It does sound as if your ds is actually doing quite a good job of learning to conform to authority, but he's not quite there yet, so he still has this last outpost where he does baby behaviour. The punchbag might well be a good idea.

And tbh I am not sure you get that easily from 'stupid mother' to 'stupid cow', provided the adults (read, men) around him are modelling respectful and corteous behaviour.

[AbbeyA]

I think that any rudeness should be nipped in the bud before it gets accepted, otherwise you have men who see nothing wrong in calling women 'stupid cows'. If you speak politely yourselves then they will see it as the norm.

[neolara]

I'm not sure a punchbag is a good idea actually. It used to be thought that getting aggression out (e.g. by using a punchbag) was the best way to deal with anger. But I think there has been research which suggests that doing aggressive things (e.g. punching, kicking, hitting a cushion etc) just makes the anger stay around longer. The suggestion now is that kids are given time to cool off, maybe by going to a quiet place, and shown how to calm themselves down e.g. count to 10, think of a calming place etc.

[ingles2]

Have to say I agree with Neolara. A punchbag is saying, get angry, come and hit me. But what if there is no punchbag? What should he hit instead?
Developing calming techniques is a better idea.