Seven-month-old still not sleeping through the night(127 Posts)
My ds is nearly seven months old and is still not sleeping through the night. Any advice/tips as to what we can try to get him to sleep through? Don't think we can face Controlled Crying, but we're considering getting dh to try a bottle of water in the night - the theory being it won't be worth ds waking up for. At the moment he wakes up and wants to breastfeed 3 or 4 times a night. Sometimes I hear him wake and he DOES go back to sleep, so it's not as though he can't put himself back to sleep. In the day he's taking solids well - 3 meals a day - and has 2 formula feeds aswell. He goes down really well at 7.30pm and I don't feed him to sleep or anything. In fact, I feel rather cheated because I feel like I've followed all the advice and made sure we haven't created any bad sleep habits - ie. feeding to sleep, rocking to sleep etc. So why isn't he sleeping through? Any advice/your experiences gratefully received.
NB He sleeps in a cot in his own room (only moved him out of our room 6 weeks ago). He is teething at the moment, but as he's never slept through the night I don't know how much longer I can keep making excuses for why he's waking up.
I know some mumsnetters think you should just live with a situation like this, but I really want to change it if I can. I just keep imagining what it'll be like in a year's time when I still haven't slept properly and I'll look back to this period and wished I'd bloody done something! I feel SOOO knackered all the time. And surely I shouldn't still be a walking zombie by now. Also, my health visitor said that if you don't get the sleeping through cracked before the 8 month stage, the waking habit can become very ingrained.
I'm a firm believer in not just living with the situation. tbh, i dont understand why ds isn't sleeping thru, you're doing all the right things by the sound of it. Just make sure you stick to bedtime routine firmly. don't feed him in night, try water, it may work. failing that i think controlled crying may be only option. What do you do now when he cries? You need to leave him in cot, stroke head to soothe him, try not to talk, no lights. Do same thing every night, don't waiver from your pattern. It will be very tiring but it should take less than a week. i have 4 dc and all sleep thru night, i've always had bedtime routine from early age with all of them.
gecko is 11 months now and has never slept through
she did sleep 6 hours straight for 10 days in a row at about 5 months but that is just a distant memory.....
12 months now and no sign of a full nights sleep yet.
The only consolation I have is that I have 2 others who were exactly the same at this age and they are wonderful sleepers now.
Darned if I can remember when that happened though... 2 ? 3 ?? 4 ???
I wouldn't expect any baby under 12mths to slepp through.
me either moondog
My other 2 seemed to grasp the concert along with a grasp on language and reasoning at about 2
Its just that I feel like my brain is melting throught lack of sleep
dd2 started to sleep through 2 months after gecko was born. I haven't had more than 3 hours straight for 2 and a half years, it's getting me down
Ah well, at 11 months, I would be expecting stuff to change actually.
At that age,I did do a bit o ignoring at night when I knew they (both breastfed on demand) were full.
dc1 slept thru from 12 weeks, dc2 from 6 weeks, dc 3 from 5 months, dc4 from 6 months. it can be done and i think its abnormal not to sleep thru! Sometimes they just need training!
Ah yes,Frazzled, that's all well and good if you consider children are little more than pets to be bent to your control and convenience.
'Scuse me?? I love my kids to bits and certainly don't think of them or treat them as pets!!!! As all of mine have slept thru so i know it can be done. Don't you teach children how to walk, talk, eat, play etc? Its just the same teaching them how to sleep.
Frazzledbutcalm - I think quite a bit is due to good fortune that your children slept through so early.
If it's just one weeks 'training' that's involved, why weren't all your children sleeping through from 6weeks or 12weeks? How did you decide when was the time to do the weeks 'training'?
It isn't abnormal not to sleep through at this age.
And no, I didn't 'teach' my children to walk, talk, eat, play they seemed to manage it quite well themselves when they were ready. Gave them the right environment to develop maybe.
beeep beeeep beeeep lol
moondog, I love you to bits, you're hilarious
You taking the piss Trin??
don't be suspicious, I laughed out loud at the beep beep thing
I didnt mean abnormal, i just mean its also normal to sleep thru. Lots of people just accept that babies dont sleep thru the night, it doesnt always have to be like that. i didnt do weeks training, i just had bedtime routine that i stuck to from only few weeks of age. My first two slept thru easily, the next two i had to help them a bit. all babies may not sleep thru but books, supernanny etc all say sleep and other habits take less than a week to sort out. it takes lots of patience and perserverence and people usually give up as the first few days can be really tough.
By teaching to walk, talk, eat i mean you interact with them, enable them to learn from you, not physically make them do it. I dont think im explaining myself very well.
Lookydo there are probably some things you can do to help the situation but unless you are prepared to do CC (and I am not personally) then it takes time and patience. IMO children sleep through when they are ready.
In the meantime I would do several things to help yourself.
1) Ignore crap HV advice. They are not sleep experts. Or nutrition experts. Or any kind of expert actually. Whenever a HV tells you that you have a deadline of getting your child to do something or they will never do it, you can cheerfully and safely ignore their advice afterwards. What a load of pants. Your baby will do a lot of things now that he will grow out of - doing something at 6 months doesn't make it a 'habit' that needs to be cured.
2) Stop answering questions about when your baby is sleeping through, or feeling like you have to make excuses. Why on earth should you? When faced with enquiries, just say he is doing really well thank you. It's nobody else's business but yours.
3) Stop feeling that you are doing something wrong. YOUR baby isn't sleeping through yet and he isn't some mythical book baby who plays by the rules. He is a human being and will reach his developmental milestones in his own good time, including sleeping. PMSL at the idea that you have to teach your child to do everything. You can't be in control of every aspect of a child's life.
4) Try the No Cry Sleep Solution for gentle ideas about helping your DS sleep. Then accept that there is only so much you can do. Really. Even the baby trainers who go in for CC don't have all the answers - my friend's little girl slept like a dream at 6m with CC but at 16m she is up for hours every night and has been for months.
I think the thing is that Lookydo says her ds is up 3-4 times a night - not once! I feel for you - and I've been there (this time last year exactly).
My DS did the same thing at 6.5 months. For him it was a regression, as he'd been sleeping for longer stretches. We realized that he didn't need to get up to feed, but we'd been travelling and he'd gotten into bad habits. We ended up using controlled crying for two nights. Water just infuriated him - way more than just giving him a back rub (while he was in his cot). After that he always slept for a solid stretch and only woke once.
But - he didn't sleep through the night completely until 12 months (and still doesn't sometimes) because of hunger. We used to get up and I'd breastfeed him at 4-5am then he'd go back down until 7am. That was reasonable though and I was able to get enough sleep by going to bed early that I was healthy and happy too.
Good luck! I remember how tough this is (and can't believe we're going to go through this again - I'm due in June, that's what happens when your first starts to sleep through!)
It is perfectly normal for a baby to be awake that many times at 6 months though. As long as it is just a quick feed and straight to sleep I think that is really common. You can cope better with it by co sleeping or at least having the baby in the room next to you. I wouldn't say it was easy (ha!) but nothing about having a baby is easy is it? I still wouldn't do CC but each to their own.
Everyone - i don't think you have to teach children how to do things, that isnt what i meant. I mean, they learn everything from you by watching your everyday life. Children are mostly how they are because they've watched and learned from you. I think its fantastic the way their personalities develop and part of that is from mum and dads interaction. You're making me sound like some kind of weirdo but things are just being taken out of context.
Aberdeen - congratulations.
its pretty normal in my opinion. Of my 4, only 1 slept the night before 1 year old.
There's no excuses except that he is a little baby and babies think of their convenience, not yours. My 1st and 4th didn't sleep through till 3.
If he naps during the day, have a nap then yourself. It will pass and one day he will be a stinky teenager and you will be shrieking 'its 3pm, are you ever getting up?!'
frazzled, you taught your children to sleep through from an early age by allowing them the opportunity to watch and learn from you? What part of my dd's and ds' observing their comatose mother's form in bed did they not get?
surely any foerm of sleep trsining involves more screaming than most are comfortable with
They will 'get it' eventually
lol blueshoes. Im not gonna talk more on the subject as everything is misconstrued . Hope yours sleep soon
Very few 7 month olds sleep through ime.
Some children walk early, some talk early etc., Frazzledbutcalm's slept through early. Just because her dcs did, it doesn't mean all babies will.
Babies get back to sleep quickest when their needs are met soonest, ime.
As for this supposed 8 month cut off date before you condemn your child to a life of insomnia, well, that sounds like the usual frothing bark of a HV untroubled by facts, information or knowledge.
It is very tiring to be woken by a baby every night, and of course you want the baby to sleep through if possible. I'm sure he will eventually, it is still early days, but I understand you want to check you are doing all the right things. Your hv's remark about 8 month babies sleeping through is just putting you under pressure and is unlikely to be based on any evidence whatsoever, so was unhelpful to say the least.
If baby is teething, are you using teething gel or other teething medication in the night?
If you have got plenty of milk, and baby is also taking 3 meals of solids a day, why are you giving formula? Maybe the stuff is giving baby stomach ache.
I would ditch the formula, and bf lying down when baby demands it at night. I found it was as well to wait until the crying was established, because sometimes it might be a quick squawk and the baby was asleep again before I got to the cot! It's also worth checking that the baby is not too hot or cold or wet before offering milk.
Are you able to feed lying down? And how do you feel about co-sleeping, once the baby has had a night time feed? So long as neither of you has been smoking or drinking or is obese, and the bedclothes are not too hot for the baby, this can save you getting out of bed again. Some babies will sleep very well this way, keeping still and quiet enough to let the parents sleep too, but others are such fidgets that nobody gets any sleep!
Are you having to change nappies at night?
I'll second Elastic's advice.
Your HV is bonkers btw. DS was waking, oooh, a lot at 8 mnonths. And 9 months. And 10 months. In fact, he didn't reliably sleep through until he was 15 months. No waking habit at all, ingrained or otherwise.
There are two things to remember:
1) whether they sleep well or not is almost entirely a matter of luck. DD is a much better sleeper than DS was, we are lucky. It wasn't our fault DS didn't sleep well, it isn't down to anything we did that meant DD slept much better. Some babies sleep and some don't.
2) the ability to sleep is not linear. DD is going through a bad phase atm. She's 6 months. She's trying to stand, she's just started solids, she's suffering separation anxiety AND she's had 1 cold after the other for the last 6 weeks. Soon she'll be feeling better and she'll start sleeping better too. Probably even better than she id until her sleep went to pot.
This sounds really harsh - but believe me, I really sympathise with you. It's so hard coping on not a lot of sleep, but I think it's easier second time round (even though there's a toddler to throw into the sleep deprived mix) because you do know that in a year's time, this will all be a memory. Chances are your DS will be sleeping through reliably by now - in fact, a few weeks might be all that's needed. You don't know when it'll happen, it just does and then, when you're in a Mexican stand-off with your toddler, you look back on those lovely cuddly night-feeds and think 'God, I should have made the most of those'.
I tried pretty much everything apart from CC (which is something I just couldn't face doing at 3am!) and still none of my three slept through on a regular basis until they were 18 mths. In fact I did nothing at all with DD, as I figured after trying everything with the DSs I might as well save my energy, and she still followed (almost)the exact same sleeping patterns I actually think my DCs were out to get me.......
I know you don't want us to tell you live with the situation, but if you've tried everything you're prepared to do what else is there? IME it can be far less stressful to just accept that this is how it is and look at solutions for your own needs - how you can cope with their crappy sleeping patterns if you can't change them.
I'm glad I didn't hear a lot of these comments when I was going through this with my son - we tried as hard as we could to go with his waking pattern but then I ended up very ill from lack of sleep + sinusitus and the choice was taken from me - we had to CC. Turns out he was just in a bad habit and didn't need to nurse that often. But this advice would have made me feel horrible about my decision.
For some people, sleep deprivation can be a serious health issue and advice to wait it out may not be okay for everyone. I agree that a 6 month old may not be able to sleep through the night (mine didn't until 12 months) but waking up 4 times a night is very very different.
Your attitude to baby's sleep pattern can be more important than the amount of sleep. When my dd2 was 13 months, I took part in a Sleep And Attachment study, which entailed filling out a questionnaire about her sleep habits, in which I was proud that she was a good sleeper. Then I had to keep a diary for 2 weeks, detailing her actual sleep and waking pattern. I was amazed at how often she woke up, and how I always made excuses for her and didn't mind, because she was easy to settle quickly.
The moral of this story is, lower your expectations; compare the pattern now with how he was as a newborn - you MUST be getting more sleep now!
For me I sent my dh in for 3 nights as ds was waking at 9 months, twice in the night for 2 hours each stint! I'd done bedtime routines, follwed structured daytime routines etc but eventually just said 'this has got to change' so dh went in, ds couldn't get any milk from him! (we weren't using formula at the time). After 3 nights we had 1 night through, then 1 night of 1 1/2 hours crying, then another night through, then 1 of 20 mins crying and after about a week he regularly went though the night. I reckon once a week I now go in to him at night to soothe him after a nightmare but no more night feedings!
It didn't work with me doing the CC, I tried but ds knew eventually he would get milk from me (red head, very stubborn baby!) so dh took a day off of work and we did it over a long weekend and the following week dh had an easy work week. We are very pleased we did CC but it was more dh's effort (although I still had to listen to 2 hours of crying and found that hard).
Sorry, I know that's not the answer you wanted but we did the bath, milk, bed regular routine, we did everything else we could think of to help him sleep though but ended up having to be 'cruel to be kind'. I'm not so tired so I am nicer company for ds in the day!
We tried the old cold turkey treatment for 3 nts when dd2 was six months (back in August or so). ie we didn't respond at all to her crying (except to sneak a peek that she wasn't in danger etc). It was horrid. It was a nightmare. On night 4 it worked. She has slept through 7pm - 7am ever since. In fact, this week she hasn't woken up til 8am, Yippee!!!! U got to be psychologically prepared for it though. And tbh your lo might just make the switch without u doing anything. Good luck!
My 2.8yo ds STILL doesnt sleep through and neither does my 8.5mth dd. Ds can do CC and it does work, only at the moment it wakes dd up so am loathed to try it again.
CC trying doesn't work with dd aged 3 as she just has a seizure from the stress. Am getting a tad fed up with broken sleep though. We give her a muscle relaxant to stop the muscle spasms but she still wakes and then she screams for ages. The HV is totally useless and knows nothing about sleep in disabled babies.
Not sure where the vitriol comes from on this thread... "beep beep beep"... "nutter" etc.
I don't think it's abnormal for a baby under 7 months to sleep through.
I do think that there are ways of encouraging a baby to sleep well at night which do not involve treating said baby like a "pet".
2 out of 3 of mine slept through from 10 weeks. Not rocket science, yet I am also sure not totally down to luck.
Arrghhh this thread has irritated the cr@p out of me. I think I'll be parping now...
ROFL at people thinking their young babies sleeping through is something brilliant they've done. Honestly, that's hilarious.
I've read this thread with great interest as my ds is the same age as yours Lookydo and has never slept through neither!
I simply can't face controlled crying. I believe it works but I'm not convinced of the psychological impact (sorry to throw that one in there...)
DS wakes at night, he gets a bottle, back to sleep. All in the space of 10 minutes. Personally I believe that's a sacrifice worth making for him. Ask me again in a month's time though as I'm back to work in a week!
Well, this is how it worked with us.
My ds woke up every night for a 2am then a 5am feed until he was 10 mo old (I'd also give him a dream feed at 10.30pm when I went to bed.
I was prepared to do this until he was 10mo old but then I'd really had enough - and couldn't believe he really needed the food any more, it seemed more like a habit.
So at 10 mo we agreed no more and when he woke up wanting a feed dh went in with a bottle of water and stayed with him until he went back to sleep (I meanwhile sat on the sofa and cried my eyes out).
He did cry a lot the first 3 nights ( I could cope with this - just - cause his daddy was with him). I couldn't cope with controlled crying in its true sense, either.
After 3 nights he started sleeping through and we have never looked back. Maybe we were lucky but it worked for us - those 3 nights were bloody tough though.
None of mine have slept through, maybe the odd night of 9 hrs, but ds2 is now 9 mths and goes at 7pm, 11pm feed - sometimes dream feed sometiems he wakes for it. then another feed at 4am then again up for day at 7 ish.
Except sometimes like last night he was up 6 times.
Today another tooth popped through.
So I am just livign with it, but then my ds2 on most nights is only waking me once and he is quick and resettles straight away.
If he were keeping me awake, regularly I think I'd be tempted to find a prompt resolution.
none of mine have ever slept through before 18mths I meant
Cor ds1 is 13 now, think I might be in a straightjacket if he had never slept thtough by age 13!!!
I think you either get a sleeper or you don't. You can try your hardest to 'sleep train' whatever that is but if your baby wakes then you are just very unlucky.
Me? I am lucky, mine sleeps. Never eats anything but sleeps! So saying I will bet a whole big bag of cash dd1 wakes tonight just to prove me wrong.
Also my ds wakes anything from 1-5 times a night on a very regular basis.
Some babies are great sleepers and others are not. But both dh and i are soo looking forward to when ds is older and still in his pit at 8am and then we can go in with the hoover or something else noisy to make sure he wakes up
I think you do have to teach your baby to sleep to a certain degree. With ds he had no set routine and often was placed in his buggy infront of the tumble dryer to get him to sleep. I didnt ever put him to bed in his cot for a nap as dh worked from home and i didnt want the screaming to disturb him too much. Even to this day he will not nap in his bed.. Car, yes, whilst out in buggy, yes, cot NO. We decided that all the things we wished we had done with ds we were GOING to do with dd regardless of the screaming that may occur. She has a routine that can be moved forward or back with ease, she sleeps in her bed during the day without any problems at all.
I agree with frazzled here and rather surprised at the kneejerk reactions of some hitherto reasonable MNetters at what she has said.
Lookydo - The fact that you are here, asking for advice on how to get your DS to sleep through the night suggests to me that "Suffer. That's what we all do." is not exactly the reply you are hoping for. Am I right? If you are interested, those of us who have kids who consistently sleep through the night would be happy to give you some practical advice.
Assuming we won't be insulted and booed, of course.
Lookydo - Just walked away and thought about this one, I was told that if you get their day sleep sorted their night sleep will follow.
We did cc for 3 days at 14 weeks to get 2 day sleeps into place in cot. Not nice but worth it. Once dd was sleeping in the day (3 hrs total in cot over 2 sleeps) she went through the night immediately.
Is your LO sleeping ok in the day?
I am sure that there is an argument about this one too but it worked for me.
Mellieandmin - exactly what I did. It took three days also, but have never looked back. How much they sleep in the day does impact on how they sleep at night I think. My dd never has more than 3hrs sleep in a day (10 months)
I am a big fan of routine and I know that this does not always work for everyone but after a very demanding dd1 I was determined to give 'routine' a go. It has worked for me and dd2 has slept through since 12 weeks (being lifted for a dream feed till 6 months)
Cheapslutonjunk - ROFL laughing at people who think u CAN'T help/encourage/train whatever u like to call it, your young baby to sleep through the night. Honestly, that's hilarious.
Gosh, this thread IS annoying isn't it?
I personally think that the fact my dd does sleep through the night is because of something brilliant that I have done!!!Dd1 never slept at all - complete nightmare. Dd2 sleeps through - becuase (IMO) I have taught her good sleep associations therefore I (and DP) take all the credit!
Blummin right, karen. We went thru 3 nights of hell and got a result. I flipping well am taking the credit!!
Yes this thread is particularly irritating. 'Sleep training' for me involved plenty of feeds during the day, waking gently if they slept more than 3 hours and giving a dream feed at 11pm. My first was sleeping through at 4 mths and second at 8 weeks. No doubt someone will tell me how 'cruel' I was
Chardonnay1966 - am with you sister!!!
not cruel annotingdevil at all
BUT I have done all those things too and mine NEVER slept through the night till 18 months ish
I just dont like the attitude that I'm just being crap cause I haven't 'trained' them
Feel free to do cc (I cannot), or other things (like annyingdevil has mentioned) as I did and if they work for you GREAT
But they dont work for all babies and sometimes you just have to go with it
Oh, Annoyingdevil, if that's all that was needed life would have been so much easier. But.. I did what you said you did and....no such luck for me.
Karen, didn't you leave a 12 week old to cry?
my ds is one and still wakes oh atleast three times a night, I must see if I can change this though as not good for my mariiage long term I dont think!
I can guarantee you that any parent who 'lifts' a baby for a dream feed does not really have a baby with (that big) a problem with sleep.
Sorry. But us parents with the true non-sleepers will NEVER touch a sleeping baby on pain of death.
very true blueshoes
thats the only thing I never did
Sorry to hear that Juule, guess I was lucky with DS. If it's any consolation it only lasted 2 mths anyway. By five months he was waking up again. I finally went cold turkey on feeding him back to sleep when he was one.
My ds sleeping more than 3 hours durnng the day? ROFL at the thought...
oh blueshoes, how right you are. Lifting a baby... <sigh>
I can sometimes do it with ds2, who at 3mo is a fabulous sleeper IMO, waking anything from 2 to 5 times (the 'night' starts at some point between 9 and midnight and ends around 8am). ds1 woke 5-6 times a night until at least 8 or 9 months. He was down to 1-2 wakings by 18 months and by the time he was 2 was sleeping effectively through most nights. He might wake briefly and/or climb into our bed, but is back off in no time. And I bf him to sleep until he was around 2.
I'm with those who say a child sleeps through in its own time. With ds1 it paid off in the end to meet his needs.
My dc is 7 months old and has a regular feed at between 11pm to midnight. In the past week, I've just moved into bed with him when he wakes at 3am ish and then cuddle rather than feed him to sleep. Last night this didn't work, I changed his nappy, cuddled him but he was still crying so I went and got him a bottle. I am just planning to be flexible and go with the flow. I can't really do cc.
I was determined not to routine my baby but I did and dd1 is a very happy chappie most of the time. But I know ladies who would give their right arm for a sleeping baby and have tried the same routine (and many others) as we did but it just has not worked. I guess babies will sleep in tim. My friends twins did not both sleep through the same night till they were 4. She is sane, just about, but she loves then just the same. Both are now highly intelligent 19 year olds who are out in the world making great strides.
What you win on the swings you loose on the roundabouts. I have a sleeper, great, both day and night who is routine driven. Eat? Eat solid stuff from a spoon? Not likely mate!
We all have our cross to bare, of bowl of porridge to bare in my case......
I didn't leave my 12 week old to cry. I did CC. There is a big difference. Babies cry. I did CC and went in every 2 mins to settle her and reassure her. I knew that she was fed, warm etc. I had a terrible time with dd1 (now 8 and still a poor sleeper) therefore I tried a different method this time. I am there in an instant if my dd cries at any time. I do not neglect her or am cruel. I merely wanted to establish good sleep patterns. It worked for me and I appreciate that it may not work for everyone but I have a very happy thriving 10 months old dd and am delighted.
My observation with dd (who did not do anything remotely resembling sleeping through until 17 months when she suddenly flipped a switch) is that after she started sleeping through, I was more tired by being woken even once than before when she was waking up to 3 times an hour.
I think when you have the luxury of unbroken sleep (as we do pre-babies), you enter deep sleep from which it is exhausting to be dragged out of by being disrupted just 1-2x a night. But if you have a baby that wakes fairly regularly throughout the night (once an hour is where ds 15 mths is currently at), you only ever just wade in the shallows. And it is quite bearable. I am fully functional in the day that people can't believe how often I am up (we co-sleep).
So ... if you complain that baby is waking 3-4x a night, maybe it might feel better if baby was waking 6-8x instead! Or maybe NOT!
karen, just curious, why can't you do CC with dd1 8?
Blueshoes - had never really heard of it tbh! I was quite young when I had dd1 and my husband (at that time) worked every day till late at night so was too exhausted to try anything. I co-slept with dd and she still woke up many times. I suppose I just wanted to try something different this time. I also have a very supportive dp and it was on the advice of my sister who had done it with her ds that we gave it a go. As I said it worked and I am happy that it did. It means that I have quality time also with dd1 now at night when baby is in bed.
oh sorry do you mean why can't I do it now?? Well, since dd2 came along dd1 is much better! I think she feels a lot better knowing that someone else is going to bed as well as her!
I do like reading the 'sleep through' threads!
I do love sensing the obvious envy from those mothers who obviously don't have children who 'sleep through' and like to slag off mothers that do!
I have one son who slept through the night from 6 weeks old in his own room in a cot.
He would sleep from 7pm til 7am with no dream feeds, he was a huge baby so would take 9oz feeds. And guess what, I let him cry, I didn't rush to him straight away. I put him to bed at 7pm and he cried until he was asleep. This was for 3 minutes tops. I did this for 3 days only. He is now 3 years old and he only wakes in the night when he is ill.
Shoot me now! I have my sleep!
thanks, karen, glad it is working out better now. I got confused because you said dd1 8 is still is poor sleeper.
BTW, my dcs (crap sleepers) take after my dh. As a baby, he drove his parents to distraction with his waking ways and did not sleep through until 3 years' old. Even now, he is a very light sleeper and quite precious IMO about the conditions under which he can sleep. I was a great sleeper as a baby (my mother could not believe it) and till today, quite easy for me to fall and stay asleep. I think sleep traits are actually ingrained to a large degree.
Blushoes - you may be right. My dp could sleep standing up and as a child had to be woken up on Christmas morning!!
I don't envy women who let their tiny babies cry. What a strange idea.
mumfor1, (erhem, can you hear the envy in my voice), I take the studied view that crying for just 3 minutes before falling asleep is not CC. It is just tired crying. Quite different from hysterical arms and legs flailing, choking, sobbing, wails that the world is coming to an end CC.
Love the turn around! Envy of woman who let their tiny babies cry.
Hmm, thought I said envy mothers who have babies who are sleeping through .(and not crying and waking!)
Well I for one, envied women who's babies would sleep through from an early age. I love my sleep.
I may have one child but I do know the difference between controlled crying and tired crying.
I was there to listen to the cries.
A tired cry in our house was called a 'jimmy saville' er er er .
Maybe ds didn't need as much help to get himself to sleep as some babies.
I don't envy the time it takes for these women to get their babies to sleep through using leaving them to cry methods.
I think had I only had one child, I'd be smug about a whole range of things I know are luck now too.
Ha Ha!! How predictable
at this thread!
Just to put things into perspective, my DS is nearly five now and rarely sleeps through the night, he never has, he's up at least once a night for a loo trip or drink of water!
(doesn't wake me though so obviously I still get my much loved sleep!)
My 5.5 months old doesn't sleep through - she can still wake for up to 4/5 times a night!
My dd1 slept through at 6 weeks and my dd2 slept through at 3 weeks. Twas nothing fantastic that i did ...they were just 'good' sleepers.
I had the same 'routine' for them as i do for dd3 (bath, feed, wind down, sleep ...) the order stays the same but the time changes to meet the needs of the family. I simply have to accept that dd1 and dd2 were good sleepers and dd2 isn't (yet! I'm still clinging to the hope that things may change, lol)
I do most definitly have sleep envy though and would LOVE a full nights sleep!!
ah yes, sleep envy! I have that too, although for me it's not babies that stop me getting enough sleep, it's too much work
I agree, tired cry versus hysterical cry are two utterly different things. I did cc, did the whole 2 mins, 3 mins, 4 mins thing but was sitting on the stairs outside sobbing myself. A baby that wails then waits and listens then wails again then waits and listens is not the same as a really upset distressed baby.
I did not leave my tiny baby to cry, I sat outside her room and cried along. Who could know 60 seconds could last so long? I was never more than 6 feet from her and never, ever let her go from a temper cry to an upset cry.
Predictable? Maybe. True though
Maybe we should start another thread 'what time does your little one wake' then we can envy those parents who have the longer lay in!
well DS wakes at 7 on weakdays when I am up at 6, and wakes at 5:30-6 at the weekend when I have a chance to have a lie-in!
It's not fair!!!!
Days that I work and have to be up at 5am then ds will lay in until 7 and on my days off he will wake at 6 so not much of a lay in for me! Nothing to be envious of there!
Mine woke up at 8am on Christmas Day
Wow! 8am. That truly is a lay in! Ds woke at 6am on christmas day but he climbed into our bed and layed with us for a while. Then I woke just before 8am to find his room covered in pieces of jigsaw puzzles and duplo!
mellie, you wrote: "I did not leave my tiny baby to cry, I sat outside her room and cried along. Who could know 60 seconds could last so long? I was never more than 6 feet from her and never, ever let her go from a temper cry to an upset cry."
You were able to prevent a temper cry from escalating to an upset cry. This is the bit I don't get. For one, my dcs don't have a temper cry v. a distressed cry. Certainly, they never wailed and waited . My dcs did not wait for anything. Put them on their back in a cot and they would be instantly hysterical, certainly within 30 seconds. Even if, or shall I say, especially if, they could see me standing there because they cannot understand why mummy is not picking them up despite their protests. And once they got to that state, even me coming in to soothe them would not work. And they would be so AWAKE by then, the only way they would fall asleep is by crying themselves for hours, then waking 15 mins later to cry some more.
Some of us don't do CC, not because we wear halos, but because it is not a proud thing to do to certain babies.
I think everyone needs an early night. I'm off to bed. God bless.
Wow! That really did get you all talking, didn't it. Just read through it all - loads of useful stuff (aswell as some surprisingly strong feelings). But I'm gonna reply tomorrow when I'm hopefully feeling slightly more awake. But right now, funnily enough, I'm gonna go get me some sleep! Wishing you all an unbroken night's sleep...
(see - I'm nothing if not eternally optimistic)
I think I'll add my experinces FWIW
DD1 slept through 8-8 from about 12 weeks fine and great
DD2 different matter both were BF on demand and coslept. DD2 was a much hungrier baby I think she actually did still need milk in the night at 7-8 months. Solids were just starting to kick in then and I honestly believe she still needed the milk, sorry.
However, by the time she got to 12 months she was eating well enough in the day and was still waking 5-6 times in the night and only a feed would put her back to sleep, yes it is exhausting and distressing. I could never do CC sorry I know some do and great for them but it's not for everyone, tried the Baby Whisperer and it didn't work for us. This is what did. DD2 was BF as normal at 8pm when she woke for her first feed all she got was DP comforting her, no Mummy no milk but she was never left alone to cry. First night she cried for 50 minutes and it was really hard listening to her, second night about 10 minutes and third night she went straight through. I believe the milk was a habit and it needed to be broken. We stopped cosleeping at the same time which I was sad about but none of us were getting a good sleep as she was punching and kicking us in her sleep.
I'm pregnant with number 3 and fully expect another year of unbroken sleep I am prepared for it this time and if needs be will do the same thing with this one as DD2 at a year although fingers crossed it will be more like DD1
Hope some of that helps the OP.
"I believe the milk was a habit and it needed to be broken."
Exactly. You did this at 12 months. I did it at 4 months. We had two tough nights where DH comforted her and put her back to sleep and she has been sleeping through ever since.
What you did was no different than what I and others here did. Yet you say "I could never do CC sorry I know some do and great for them but it's not for everyone", why is that?
Blueshoes - we have different babies. I am not saying DO CC IT IS THE END TO ALL ISSUES, far from it, I just said it worked for me. I did point out in my posts that I know it does not work for all Mums or all babies. Simple fact of life it that we are all different.
I do happen to have a baby with a temper cry, no tears, nothing really wrong apart from the fact she is not getting her own way. It only took 3 days to get the routine in place and now we have no crying at all. She is 8 months and has slept 7/7 since 14 weeks.
Like I said way back in this thread, I am lucky to have a good sleeper. I have stuff with dd that makes me want to sob and pull my hair out, as I said earlier, she eats about enough to keep a sparrow alive and believe me that makes me feel like a total failure. I have 2 step-dds of teenage years who live with us lots that make me want to scream 24/7 but if I take a deep breathe I cam count my blessings for my little sleeper.
Haven't read anything except OP, but I have to say that I was surprised that anyone would think it odd that a 7 month old wasn't sleeping through!!!
I have one the same age. He sleeps well, but is next to me all night so I lose track of when he feeds etc. My elder son was even less predictable!
Do babies this age really sleep all night?
my mates baby has been sleeping through since 3 months
I was as anything but now at 11 months she is waking in the night 2 or 3 times and I have sat and chuckled at her
Cote -I don't believe what I did was CC, CC I believe is where you leave the baby completely to cry for increasing intervals. If you did the same thing as me then pour babies were never left alone to cry.
I am trying to say this as diplomatically as possible without offending but I wouldn't have left DD2 without milk all night at 4 months old. 4 or even 7 months is different to over a year. DD2 was on 3 good meals then plus snacks plus water and a bit of juice. At 4 months I believe she still needed feeding at night (OK maybe not as much as she did but she still needed one or two feeds) but every baby is different I have two very different ones, DD1 obviously didn't need milk in the night as she didn't wake for it, DD2 did.
I don't see why theres loads of animosity on this thread, if you want to do CC then fine do it, if it works for you great, if you don't find some way you are happy with or if you are happy with getting up in the night until your baby sleeps through itself then fine. I honestly couldn't care less when other peoples babies sleep through as it has no bearing on me if you see what I mean.
The OP was asking for advice and I told her my experience thinking it may help.
We did it without controlled crying at 8 and then 9 months. At 8 months we taught him to self settle, and at 9 months, to have water (or nothing) instead of a feed.
We did a mixture of cuddling, patting and shhh-ing in the cot, gradual withdrawl from the room, but were really led by him (i.e. sometimes picking him seemed to annoy him).
imdreaming - We did pretty much the same thing. I was still breastfeeding at the time, so it was up to DH to comfort DD when she woke at night. He would walk around with her, sing to her, pat, shh, rock, etc anything to get her back to sleep. Then he would put her down for a couple of minutes to cry, to see if she would go back to sleep. If not, he would pick her up again. He did this for two nights. She did not wake up the third night and hasn't since, unless she is ill.
I don't know where you get the impression that babies don't need to eat at night at 12 months, but I was told by DD's paediatrician at 4 months that babies don't physically need to be fed at night at that age, and that any night feeding is out of habit, not need. Obviously, that was the case, since once the habit was broken she never again wanted to be fed at night.
Mine both slept most of the night from about 11am till 6am soon after a month old, and were well settled into it by 3 months. But there's nothing clever about it - I was just lucky.
And for what it's worth, we went through a period of HELL when ds1 was 3 and ds2 about 18 months, with both of them suddenly starting to wake 2 or 3 times a night.
Children are individuals, as others have said.
Last night was actually a big improvement. Yey! He must have been helped by all your positive vibes. Was only up with him twice, which is a real breakthrough. Maybe what CorrieDale said about a few weeks might be all that's needed will come true. Thanks all of you for your comments. Really helpful.
Frazzled - I dont think youre a nutter at all. Youre talking a lot of sense as far as Im concerned. Thank you. When he cries in the night I go to him and breast feed him. Im probably going to him too quickly, but weve had lots of people staying recently so Im aware of not waking everyone up. And also my dh starts work pretty early most mornings so I worry about his sleep. Have just started sshh-ing him and stroking his back which does seem to work if its early on ie. before 11pm. After that point only feeding seems to console him.
Trinity I haven't had more than 3 hours straight for 2 and a half years. God, I feel for you SO much. I dont mean to sound unsympathetic, but I really hope Im not in your shoes in 2 years time! It does seem abnormal to me that my ds isnt sleeping through. All my ante-natal lots babies are. They look at me like Im mad when I say hes still not sleeping through. And dont get me wrong, I dont care what other people think. I just want a good nights sleep!
NineUnlovely great tips, thank you. Have read the No Cry Sleep Solution but he just screams if I try to reduce the length of his night feeds as suggested.
Aberdeenhiker thanks for info re. water. I had a feeling that tactic might be a bit liked CC with a prop. Sounds like thats the case. Sleep deprivation can be a serious health issue such a good point. Ive felt my lowest at my tiredest. I just want to crack this so that I can be the best mum I can be. Some days I really dont feel like Im being much good for him. And as weve just decided that Im going to stay home rather than go back to work Ive got to get this sorted because Im going to be such a big influence on his learning/development. I do nap during the day when things get really bad but I kind of associate that as something you do with a newborn not 7 bleedin months down the line! But hey ho. Needs must.
Elasticwoman re. teething help - yes, using bonjela, Ashtons powders + baby paracetamol if hes really sore. Not keen on the idea of co-sleeping because hes only been out of our room a month (and I was SO ready for that!). Am giving him formula in the day because Im in the process of cutting back on the breast feeding. He did have tummy ache when he started on solids but he seems fine on that front now. And yes, I do have to change his nappy at night. In fact, thats something I forgot to say earlier at least one of his night wakings is down to the fact that hes wet through, which is SOOO frustrating. And its a vicious circle the more he wakes to feed the more likely it is hes going to wake wet. Have tried lots of different brands of nappy & I dont offer him water after his tea now to try and reduce his weeing. Any other advice on this v gratefully received.
CoteDAZur Id really appreciate any practical advice you can give. Youre spot on about the fact I dont want to here Suffer. That's what we all do. Thanks for the info about what your dh did to break your dd's night feeding habit. I think we'll give that a try.
MellieandMin daytime naps seem to be going fine. 2 hours from 10am, then another hour in the afternoon (approx 3pm). So 3 hours in total.
Cote - sorry you seem to have misunderstood me (the way I wrote) you are probably right in saying that most babies don't need food at 4 months but my DD2 was a hungry baby and I think she did need feeding at night and I didn't want to deprive her.
12 months is my personal limit when I said enough is enough I need some sleep I knew by then she was getting enough during the day and it was habit, she was also getting too big and boisterous to cosleep. I think the limit thing is very personal TBH you did at 4 months what I did at 12, maybe with this next one I will change my mind and say enough is enough earlier.
DD2 is the same as someone else's DB in that she was actually worse if picked up and cuddled it seemed to set her off more. She was (and still is) very food orientated and I think once she realised there was no milk on offer there was no point waking up.
All this 'lower your expectations' stuff is fine - unless you are the one seriously sleep deprived.
I don't blame babies for waking up. To be honest, I'd wake up six times a night if I knew someone would feed me a bacon sandwich.
OP I think you have to trust your instinct. If you are so tired that you can't parent as well as you think you should, and you feel that your child is secure enough in their attachment, then I think you should trust your instinct. We, as I said just now, managed it with a bit of cross crying, but not the sort of crying that turns you inside out as a parent, and were comfortable with that.
Its nice to see others dont think im a nutter, thanks everyone
I hope everyone gets their sleep at some point in their lo life
Nappies - we use the 12 hour dry nappies and they do last the whole night for us.
Milk - not sure if you are still BF (sorry, too long to read back now!) but I changed to hungry baby formula for the nighttime only and it bought us 2 more hours straight away.
Bedtime Toy - I was told to create a bedtime toy that stays in the cot and smells of them that they can locate in the middle of the night if needing some comfort and can self settle. We have 2 pink bunnies that rotate through the wash and work a treat. I forgot to pack one for Nursery last week and she really struggled poor little thing - nasty mummy!
The only other thing I did was changed/fed in total silence but made sure I did lots of kissing! When she wakes from a day nap of in the morning I make a big show of opening the curtains, when she woke in the night I would not even turn a light on to try to show the difference of when it is ok to get up and when she needed to go back to sleep. Much fumbling around but it did seem to help.
Hope something here helps a little.
Lookydo - Basically, you cut out the night feeds and somehow get DS back to sleep without feeding. If you are breastfeeding, it is best if your partner/husband does this (while you sleep ) because baby will smell the milk on you. This will probably last 2-3 nights (friends' & our experiences), and your he will sleep through from then on.
The idea is that you are not leaving DS alone to cry, your dp/dh will be there with him, but there just won't be any feeding. Soon, he will realize that being rocked about and shh-shhed is not worth waking up in the night for.
Give some water too if you wish (and if your DS takes it). We tried that but DD wasn't having any of it.
Good luck. Once you start on this path, don't turn back. It will be tough for a couple of nights but full night's sleep awaits you on the other side
Unfortunately it doesn't always work, Cote.
Never worked for us. I think the key phrase is "somehow get DS back to sleep". We never found a way to do that
Might work for you though, Lookydo Worth a try.
juule - how long did you persist? DH was up for a very long time getting DD back to sleep, especially the first night. I still remember the chilling looks he gave me as I occasionally opened my eyes (no problem sleeping with screeching baby in background) and asked if he was still walking around with DD
You cannot seriously say that your baby did not go back to sleep without milk and stayed up screaming All Night. He will be exhausted and sleep at some point. Or did you give in and gave him milk to make him sleep? Which only taught him that if he screams for long enough, milk will come.
What age was your baby/child when you tried this? I am told that it gets harder & takes longer when you leave this to later. The longest I ever heard was a 2 year old, who took 6 days to sleep through. How long did you persist before giving up?
Long time ago now cote, but memories of hanging over cots with eyes shut willing a baby to sleep who wouldn't. Made no difference if he had milk or not. Offered water. Gave milk. Not interested. He was awake and wanted picking up or patting on the back. In hindsight I realise he didn't want to be alone. Screamed if he woke up alone. Screamed if you stopped patting him. And he could keep it up for hours.
juule's, my dcs are like yours.
They would not be left alone at night. By 5 minutes, they would be so hysterical if they were hungry, all would have been forgotton in favour of survival screeching. The only way they would have gone down is from sheer exhaustion after hours of screaming and choking sobs. Even if I tried to comfort them by then, they would be inconsolable.
I never got to this stage.
To persist would be breaking my dcs' will. With my dcs (not saying all babies are like this), this is what is would have taken for CC to work. Broken co-sleeping is a minor inconvenience in comparison - it does not last forever.
I have to say, Lookydoo, it didn't work for us either! We nightweaned DS at 10 months because he was consuming virtually all his calories after dark. It took just 3 night to nightwean him but he continued to wake in the night for a good few months thereafter. What did eventually work was to give him so much exercise once he was able to walk confidently that he was too shattered to even think about cot-aerobics!
I bfed DS2 to sleep at 12.40am because he woke up unhappy and asked for milk. He rarely does this, so I was fine doing it. He then slept till 8.20. I was still dreamfeeding him when he was 12mo, but I cut that out about then. If I'd stopped feeding him in the night when he was 4mo - well, let's just say I don't believe that all babies are capable of going that long at that age.
Yes, I'm still breastfeeding at night. Already have bedtime toy, no interaction during night feeds etc. I can't tell you how many books I've read on the whole sleep issue! That's why I feel slightly cheated that I haven't been rewarded with buckets of sleep in return, but like everyone's said they're all individuals etc etc. I'm gonna choose to ignore those of you who have said not feeding in the night hasn't worked . In CoteDAzur we trust! DS doesn't have a problem going to sleep on his own (it's just the waking up bit that's the problem) so I'm feeling fairly optimistic. Added bonus that it's DH who has to get up in the night for a change!
'A full night's sleep awaits you on the other side'. Those words will be ringing in my ears. DH is off next week so we're going to go for it then. Ta ta for now. And thanks again everybody.
Hunker - your DS2 and my DD2 really are cosmic twins, must have been a very unusual lining up of the stars that week in January!
Lookydoo - as someone else said "once you start don't look back" you will have a few nights of feeling terrible when he's unsettled and crying but it will be worth it in the end. Best of luck x
They really are, aren't they, SK?! We should introduce them one time - blinking geography in the way, but I'm sure that's overcomeable!
I'm surprised that people find it strange for a young baby to sleep through. DS1 did it a day before he turned 4 months old, and DS2 did it at 4 months and 5 days. No sleep training, no controlled crying, just being fed on demand when they woke in the night, and the night feeds gradually decreased in number, then got later and later, and bingo, one morning my alarm clock went off before my baby did.
I think, having heard stories from plenty of other people, that I'm just very, very, very lucky in this respect...
hi, there are no right or wrong things to do in how to get babies off to sleep. we are all differant and so are babies. don't beat yourself up over anything, and don't compare yourself to others, and when they ask 'is he/she a good baby? what they mean is 'sleeping through yet?'.Just say 'yes' and see how their reaction is so differant to when you say 'no he bloody isn't'. I have 3 kids and they were all differant in how they got through the night. my last one (22 months old now), was breast fed all day, but his last feed was a BIG bottle of warm milk, huggies nappy not pampers as they weren't any good for him, and then pickup putdown technique (baby whisperer) took appx 3 days/nights. if you start it, do it at a weekend when you got help around and try to see it through, as you will have to eventually anyway! good luck.
Good luck Lookydo - Cote D'azur is my baby sleep guru too!
Tried the nil by mouth approach with my DD2 at 5 months, but after 4 nights, although I didn't feed her, she was still waking once at about 3am so I decided it was too soon but I will try again when she's on 3 meals a day in a few weeks time.
I did the same with my DD1 when she was well established on solids (7 months ish) and it took just 2 nights - one pretty awful, one bearable (20 mins) and she slept through the third night, and has been a great sleeper ever since. I have to say, with DD1, I found that the more either me or DP went in to pat and soothe, the more agitated she became and it just prolonged the crying - so we just sneaked a peek every few minutes to check she wasn't stuck in the cot bars or anything.
One other thing I found was that once I had stopped the night feeds with DD1, she took to her solids with much more gusto, so it also helped in that respect as well.
Thanks, Bodkin. Great to know it works. Here's to lots of lovely sleep!
Lookydo, please let us know if it works, I'd be v interested!
i have dd 2.8 and ds 4m not sleeping thru
i dont believe people who boast their dc sleeps thru, sleeping thru means to me from 8 till 8 or 12-11 hours no waking up
i have friend who said her ds sleeping thru, actually hv said due to her ds not sleeping at night she asked hv to visit her home. i dont controlled crying so if im lucky i get up 3-4 times.
That your friend lied to you does not mean everybody else does.
DD sleeps through the night (8:30 PM - 8-9 PM), unless she is ill. Every night, since she was four months old, when we cut out the night feeds.
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