Behaviour at playgroup

[Pipspoodle]

We never have any real problems with our son's behaviour - 3.5 yrs - except when he gets really excited at playgroup or when friends come to visit. In the latter case it is easily enough dealt with and he calms down after 10-15 mins and plays well with both younger and older children. However, at playgroup from the word go he is like a tornado and although he calms down a bit to do craft activities, play with the others he often upsets others work/play. Their snack time is a little late for him and I ask the staff to at least make sure he gets a drink and something to eat about half an hour before the snack time.Then once they start on more physical activity he gets really hot and tired and starts pushing and generally misbehaving.
I suspect he gets bored early on, but then is unable to moderate his behaviour when he exhausts himself, I don't think the staff cope with this all that well. I have asked them to take him aside for a minute or two to let him recover himself, but this never seems so successful with the staff as it is at home.
By the time they finish play he will not sit still for a story or nursery rhymes (probably because he is too tired). I now go back for him early and sometimes remove him at story time - for the safety of the other children -he hates going early!
I keep hoping that he will grow out of this, but there's no sign yet. He goes to 3 sessions a week (they are 2.5 hours) and we have started going for only the 2nd part of the session on two of the days.
I feel it is important for him to keep going as this is the main opportunity for social interaction with children of his own age. Where we live there are no other young kids.
Any ideas about how to cope with this. I am the one who generally ends up frazzled.

[aloha]

Do the staff tell you they have a problem with him? I do think that your own child's behaviour always seems worse than anyone else's because you simply don't pay them the same degree of attention. On the other hand, some children are more stressed by hectic environments than others. My son is one of them - it's a different reaction to your son (he retreats) but I wouldn't be surprised if it came from a similar basis - that they find themselves over stimulated and find it hard to cope. Is there a playgroup you could take him to where you actually stay with him and help him cope? Or could you stay for some sessions at his current nursery/playgroup to support him and come up with strategies to help. They are still very young at three and I don't think he sounds so awful considering his age!

[Twiglett]

Can you move him to a school pre-school group?

[Pipspoodle]

Perhaps it is too busy for him, but I am not sure he is ready for a pre-school playgroup. I will investigate this though. The staff do report each session and a couple of times I have had a phone call to come and deal with my son. Recently I have started staying for the session, but keeping in the background as much as possible. I usually have to take him away before the end of the session, but he forgets this disappointment by the time we are home. Today was pretty tough. The playgroup children and parents all went for a walk in the woods with a ranger. My son lost interest in parts of the talk (but really enjoyed taking part otherwise) and was more concerned with one little boy who he considers to be his friend and his alone. He would not let this little boy's Mum hold her son's hand, and they did a lot of pushing and tumbling with each other. The other Mum has made a complaint to the playgroup staff, not just about today, because she feels her son's behaviour gets over the top when he and my son are together. The playleader has now told me that one other Mother has said her child doesn't want to come to playgroup because of my son.
We have had a two week break for holidays and that has made no difference to his behaviour, so a short term break is not likely to have an effect. I wonder if I should take him out altogether till next year. I also wonder if I should try and get the two boys together outside of playgroup, or whether that might just make the situation worse.

I am really quite upset about the complaints and am at a bit of a loss to know where to go from here.

help!!!

[mykidsmum]

Does your son go mornings or afternoons?? i think afternoons are harder as children of this age often nap etc still. I f this is mornings why is he becoming so tired as this seems to be the root of his behaviour. Could you put him to bed earlier?? just an idea. Sorry you are feeling this way, I appreciate it must be hard on you but kids do go through phases and i really don't think withdrawing is a good idea, otherwise when he starts school, he will find it harder to settle. Much Love xxxxxxx

[Pipspoodle]

The sessions are mornings at 9.30. My son sleeps 10.5 hours at night and around 2 hours in the afternoon

[stickynote]

To be honest, it sounds as if it's the playgroup that's not coping with this well, rather than your son. He really doesn't sound unusual for a boy of 3.5 but they clearly are having trouble coping with him. Do you have any other nursery or playgroup options? The fact that his behaviour is OK when he's with you and friends visit (after the obligatory 15 minute hare around) speaks volumes IMO.

Hopefully someone with nursery teaching/helping experience will see this as I'd be very interested to see what they say.

[Pipspoodle]

As we are rural it would be quite a distance to another playgroup, though I would be prepared to travel further if it was in the best interest of my son. The local nursery only take 4 year olds in their pre-school year. There is the private nursery option, though the nearest one is rather further away.

My own feeling is that the playgroup doesn't handle the situation all that well, and if I stay for the sessions, it can often be worse as my son plays up more when I am there, but at least I can see the signs of hunger, tiredness, boredom as they happen and consequently can intervene before someone gets hurt. This is not ideal. My main reason for wanting my son in this type of setting is for social interaction - other developmental stuff is well covered at home.

[stickynote]

I would be very tempted to look at any other options, even just for comparison purposes (is there someone you could leave your ds with for a short time?). He really doesn't sound unusual and I don't see how he's expected to get any better without practice IYSWIM.

[shrub]

do the staff engage with your son or do they leave the children to it ie. passive activities where the children are to join a table while the staff supervise? have you thought of a nusery that offers more outdoor activities? we changed nursery for the same reason, we began to worry my ds1 might have adhd or similar when really he needed more space and a more intelligent way of engaging with children. his teacher believes the outdoors is the 'third teacher' and gets them outside at every opportunity, they go on expeditions and he has camped over for a night last term (4 and a half). she believes that sitting still is the hardest postition a child has to learn and that we expect so much so soon, i read an article by stephen biddulph (i think) who talked about strange attitudes to children - he said we're not educating senior citizens, these are people at their most energetic and enthusiastic! it sounds as if your son is trying to tell you this isn't the place for him. it may be worth travelling (if you can)to find the right place.i travelled 8 miles each way when i found the right place, then we moved to be nearer. it makes me so cross when parents with 'quiet' children take credit for their superior parenting skills when that child may naturally be quiet (my ds2 is)they don't recognise we are all different - and thank god we are otherwise life would be too boring! there is a good book called 'raising your spirited child' that i got from amazon that helps you and others to look at the behaviour differently so it stopsthe child becoming the label - for example instead of saying a child is loud you would say they are enthusiastic or have zest for life, instead of stubborn they are assertive, instead of wild you could say they are spirited, energetic and so on. i would get phoning round and get info packs, ofstead reports etc. and start visiting with your son it may not be the place with the most play equipment or facilities- its whats going on inside, how the staff relate to the children, observe how the children are, get a feel for the atmosphere and routine for the day, ask the teacher how she deals with a child who is spirited who then gets tired? one place told me 'not to worry, we'll brake him in' another said it can take up to a year for a child to settle in!! we only get one chance to get this right. best of luck and hope to hear things have turned a corner soon xx

[Pipspoodle]

Thanks stickynote; we shall certainly start looking around.
And huge thanks shrub -your post has been most helpful and encouraging. Your tip about the book was good - I had just been on Amazon after my last post and ordered it - and a few others! You have encouraged me greatly and I am more sure now that he is in the wrong place. We are about to get busy! I am feeling so much more positive.

Tanks again to all