ds sent home from school

[bizzi]

ds, 9yrs, was sent home at lunch time for bad behaviour. This has been my worst nightmare come true. He's never been easy, we've always liased with the school but today his rudeness and non compliance went too far. He's alowed back tomorrow but where is all this leading us? He is an intelligent boy (head teacher says he's playing the system), but his social skills are lacking for his age, I have always needed to teach him appropriate social behaviour. Child psychologist said he was on the right track and by secondary school would be socially up with his peer group. What if he's not? What if these tantrums continue? I am so scared for him.
Homeopathy has helped in the past, I've made an appointment for later this week.
Any suggestions? A desperate plea!!

[pixiefish]

contact senco at school and ask for help.

[Jimjams]

What did he do?

What's his behaviour like at home? Was the psychologist a clinical psychologist or an Ed pysch? Ed psych's vary greatly and can be next to useless. Do you think there's anything wrong other than immaturity?

[bizzi]

He has always displayed aggressive behaviour in 'uncontrolled environments', I mean if someone annoys him (this can be in his head, he can perceive others to be out to get him) he may lash out, kick or punch, usually just the once. By controlled environment I mean somewhere or with someone he knows the boundaries of ie I would see the build up and nip it in the bud. He's less physically aggressive now but very lippy, obstinate, down right rude!
On this occasion he threw a paddy, from what I understand, swearing at headteacher and refusing to accept detention that he felt he didn't deserve.
ps I have 2 polite and gentle dds, both younger than ds.

[Jimjams]

It sounds to me as if he needs to be properly assessed. Perhaps by a developmental paediatrician? Who has he seen so far? Why does he think others may be out to get him etc (I'm just wondering if he misunderstands jokes etc).

[coppertop]

I agree with Jimjams. It does sound as though he's in need of a full assessment. Does he get any extra help in school at all?

[bizzi]

Psychologist he saw was clinical, lovely man, felt ds was on the right track to be able to cope with mainstream secondary school, we asked not for a label unless he felt it necessary. Aspergers syndrome has been bounded about by head teacher and i agree he has many traits, but I know it's not full blown IYKWIM. He also saw a speech therapist, (I think that's who she was!) 18mths ago she felt him too able to gain any benefit from any of her groups. My HV is also a q homeopath and is the only person to have got resuls, feingold diet was ineffective, dairy free cleared up his asthma, not tried wheat free.
The 'paranoid' thoughts have been put down to the unofficial borderline AS diagnoses! He regularly feels that he gets an unfair deal in life.
Flip side of the coin is a caring, loving gentle little boy who not enough people get to see.

[Jimjams]

the reason I suggested a full assessment is because a lot of the behviour sounded typical of a child with AS. Do you think now he's not coping that well in school it may be worth going back to see whether you can get a dx so he can get some help? Or can he get help anywya. Does he have an IEP?

[bizzi]

He has had IEP's throughout the years, he comes on and off the sn register like a yoyo, I have to admit that the school are not particularly good at liasing with us (parents) over this, I have said this to them before but hate to get into a conflict situ, I feel the need to have these, 'school people', on our side more than ever.
Is dx a diagnoses? new to this!
He tends to get put on the table with the children that need help accademically so he has a TA near by, here he can only be detremental to these children already struggling. Accademically he seems to be fine, up with the brightest.
Today the head did say that the behaviour therapist teacher (forgotten her title) could be involved, but as he's said befor, he'd rather wait till Easter of this year so she can be used for the transition to secondary school. (he's in yr5 now). Head teacher feels that this behaviour woman does no more than the school already do, other than upset the routine once a week/fortnight by appearing.

[coppertop]

The Head wants to wait until Easter??? What does he expect ds to do in the meantime? If he gets sent home each time he has a meltdown then he's going to miss out on a heck of a lot.

If the school aren't handling this well then I really think that a dx (diagnosis) may be your best option. Were you invited to the IEP meetings by the school? The school should be giving you a copy of the IEP to read and sign and should be letting you know what is happening.

An understanding environment can make an enormous difference. My ds1, for example, started screaming today in the middle of carpet time. Luckily his lovely teacher realised that another child was sitting too close to ds1 and that this was the cause of the screaming. As soon as the other child was asked to sit an inch further away from the other child the screaming just stopped and the teacher carried on with the class discussion. Without that level of understanding it's likely that someone would think that ds1 was being deliberately disruptive and give him a suitable punishment. Ds1 would feel aggrieved at this and all hell would break loose, leading to a similar problem to the one your ds and his school faced.

[coppertop]

Must preview. The other child was asked to sit an inch further away from ds1.

[Jimjams]

good advice from coppertop. The problem is that if he's struggling now its likely to get worse in secondary- all those room changes, peer pressure kicking well and truly in etc.

Behavioural therapists can be a bit wishy washy- I just wonder whether he's better off with a proper investigation etc so his problems are well understood. If he has only mild problems then he has a veyr good chance of doing very well- but the mildness makes those difficulties harder to recognise iyswim.

Coppertop- my son gets a carpet tile to sit on- means his space is set out iyswim.

[bizzi]

Coppertop I can so relate to what you're saying. Yr3 was appalling because his teacher was so unforgiving and he sensed her distaste of him, it was blatant actually. Yr4 teacher was perfect, she sussed him out with incredible understanding and he flourished. Yesterdays incident was a direct result of punishment due to him from the stand in teacher of the day before! I have issues with delaying punishment (in this case 15 mins off lunch playtime), head agrees with me that this doesn't suit ds.
Yesterday was a first for being sent home, he wasn't physically aggressive - improvement on previous younger days, but he was 'the worst I have seen' said head. The reason school had to give up and call me was because he had gone past the point of return, he needed a lavender bath before anything else!
I have called for help from gp and school continuously over the years. Eventually we see a clin psychologist who says, 'what a lovely boy, he's going to be just fine.' He did say we could call him in the future if things don't stay on the level. But I feel like I'm the paranoid parent desperate to condemn my boy. I am so scared of what secondary school will bring. I don't feel I'm allowed to say that I know he wont cope. His struggles are minor in comparison to some but as jimjams says this makes his difficulties harder to recognise.
Do you think my next line of action should be to call the clin psych or what?

[MrsHugs777]

I know this might seem a really odd idea - but (as a teacher, I've used it with a parent before!) is there any chance you got go into his class and help out? ... Then you'll see (1) how the teacher relates to your ds and (2) how he relates to the teacher.

Btw - it made a real difference with the child I am thinking off!!

[coppertop]

I think a full assessment by a developmental Paed would be better tbh if it can be arranged. If your own GP is unsympathetic to the idea of giving you a referral is there another one you could see at the same practice?

Before you see the GP, arm yourself with as much information as possible. Make notes of the problems that ds has had at school or at home over the years. If you have to do things for ds in a certain way to avoid upset then mention these too, eg if he needs to follow the same routine each time he does something or if you always have to go to certain places via the same route, or even if he needs plenty of warning before he'll stop what he's doing and do what you want him to.

If you're thinking of AS as a possible dx then try to find out what you can about it and note down the bits that seem familiar to you. If you are able to, try to borrow/buy a copy of "Freaks, geeks and Asperger's Syndrome" by Luke Jackson. You probably won't need to read it all but it may help you decide whether or not yor son could have AS. I know that when I read the book it was like reading about a younger version of my dh (AS) and an older version of ds1 all mixed in together.

You may need to be very firm about wanting the referral but it should be worth getting.