4 months - time for a routine?

[SamirsMummy]

Hi everyone, I'm new to Mumsnet and would value your advice

My son is 4 months old. Up until a week ago I could basically predict his daily routine up until the evening. This is a routine he has 'found for himself' and it worked pretty well. The only problem was that we had crying every evening.

Last week he had his 3rd set of injections. I expected him to be out of sorts of 48 hours but basically his whole routine has now changed. I now find it hard to predict what he wants to do and when and am wondering whether I should give an enforced routine, like Gina Ford, a go.

My son is 4 months old and is happy and healthy.

Does anyone have any ideas, help or words of encouragement for me? I would really appreciate it as sometimes I feel like I'm completely in the dark!

[constancereader]

I would give it a few more days and then see if he falls back into his own routine. The only part of a structured routine I follow is bedtime at 7, and I often think that this only works because ds wants it!

Hope you find mumsnet as helpful as I do, I have often felt in the dark, and the advice on here really helps.

Someone with more useful advice will probably be along later!

[moondog]

Hello
I personally don't believe in routines for tiny babies.They will haVE THE REST OF THEIR LIVES TO LIVE BY THE CLOCK.aS HE GETS OLDER,YOU MAY FIND HE SORTS HIS OWN ROUTINE OUT ANYWAY.
wELCOME TO mn.

[PeachesMcLean]

Hiya, sadly I don't agree with moondog I loved routine and my son seemed to thrive on it, as we'd spent the first four months in absolute chaos and an enforced routine just put some calm into both our lives. Was such a relief all round when it fell into place.
If I were you, I'd just persevere with the routine he used to have and hope he falls back into it. It must have been fairly natural for him before. Gina's fine, if taken with large pinch of salt (a bit like MN on occasions )
What was his routine before? Does it need a bit of amending to reflect getting a bit bigger?

[alucard]

I did Gina. roughly. She is good if you can get over her ludicrously bossy tone. Both my dcs thrived on routine and so did I. It is an unpopular view but the baby does have to fit in with the rest of the family to a degree. The best thing you can give your dcs is happy parents. Some people hate the idea of a routine, however relaxed and some people, like me couldn't really cope without one. Your post suggests that you would like him back in a routine so I would go for it. It can be as strict or relaxed as you like. I really don't think there is anything wrong with living by the clock unless you take it to a ridiculous extreeme. (I don't think there is anything wrong with not having a routine either. People are entitled to run there households how they choose, its just that routine works for me)

[berolina]

dh and I (we have, due to circumstances, pretty much shared care 50/50 from the beginning) were/are very much of the go-with-the-flow school of baby parenting (ds is 2 now), and it has served us very well. I'm with Moondog. Tbh, I think expecting babies and small children to follow routines and not be thrown out of them on a regular basis (vax, developmental spurt, teething, weaning, etc. etc.) can be a little unreasonable.

ds really did fall into his own 'routine', which has changed on occasion, but it really was, I believe, less stress and struggle for us all to just go with whatever he seemed to be needing.

[phdlife]

hi SamirsMummy, my ds is 4 months too and I asked this same question a while ago because he would go to sleep any time between 6:30 and 9pm. One of the more helpful things people said was that you might like a routine (e.g., bath, feed, play, sleep) without necessarily sticking to a timetable, IYKWIM. (In the end we haven't even really done that because Dh and I are so, um, severely routine-challenged ourselves that I think poor little ds is genetically incapable of following one.)

But it seems to me if your ds is crying in the evenings at this age, it may be because he's getting overtired? Took me ages to work out that's what my ds's problem was. That and if I drank caffeinated tea any time after about 2pm - he'd cry and cry.

[elkiedee]

My precious first born is 14 weeks old and at first I was sceptical about routine. But we've found that actually having one of sorts is useful, and he responds to it well.

Evening - decide a time when you're going to put him to bed and work out something that will help him wind down and settle. We do bath followed by story and feed - dp and I do this together. Then dp takes him up and settles him, he's usually asleep within 30 minutes if not a lot less, and sometimes sleeps until 5 or 6 am sometimes not.

I don't expect to stick 100% to the same routine every day/every evening and every hour thereof, but I think my baby likes having a sort of pattern to his existence, and I need routine to get him to medical appointments, both of us to activities rather than mooching around the house. I will need routine in order to be able to go back to work at the end of my maternity leave.

Good luck with sorting out what you want to do, hope any routine you plan does work for you and baby.

[berolina]

Oh yes, we do, now, have the sort of evening 'routine' phdlife describes - but it didn't really become established until ds was much closer to a year old. It consists of tidy-up time (done by me when he was youunger, now he largely tidies his own toys), play with dh, change into pyjamas, a particular book (always the same one) with me, breastfeed, bed. We have never done baths every night - every 3-5 days max.

[phdlife]

maybe the routine elkiedee describes, berolina? as ours are non-existent

we don't do baths every night either, and one evening a week we take ds to tesco, so didn't seem much point.

plus I find, some nights he's yawning by 6pm and others he's just too frisky for bed, putting him in there would only make him yell!

[berolina]

'one evening a week we take ds to tesco'

ROUTINE! ROUTINE! Convicted out of your own typing

No, I meant the bath-feed-play-bed thing you mentioned.

[SamirsMummy]

Thank you so much everyone! I'm overwhelmed by the responses you have given.

I like the idea of him having his own routine, not one I'm making him do. Although I was prepared to go the way of GF if he was becoming so confused and distressed that he needed it IYKWIM!

Evenings are the worst time. If he feeds at 7,11 and 2, which he tended to do, I try to bath him at 5.30 and feed at 6. It's after that that the crying starts. The idea of him being overtired is interesting and one I will be more aware of - thank you!

I am still dream feeding him at 10ish as I tried to stop and he woke up in the middle of the night - never again! I can't face getting up at 4 any more - too old for that malarkey.

You've all been so helpful! Thanks Again and any further comments are most appreciated.

[HonoriaGlossop]

I agree that a 'loose' version of Gina worked for us, fantastically well. I would not have done any routine if it meant tears and endless struggles though; with ds, we went from chaos and colic to a really calm, happy day. I think ds responded to the security of a routine.

I also agree that you may need an earlier bedtime...DS always woke at 6am (or before!) so we started his bedtime routine early and he was often in bed and asleep by 6pm. So try that, you might find that your baby's crying is due to being just overtired.

Good luck.

[HonoriaGlossop]

What are his daytime sleeps like at the moment?

[motherinferior]

I found a loose routine helped me.

[Jojay]

Hi Samirsmummy,

If you feel happier having your baby on a routine, as I did, then by all means give it a go.

The Gina routine is fine IF you adopt it in a flexible manner - don't beat yourself up if it doesn't go exactly to the letter.

The Baby Whisperer's EASY routine is another good one, and is more flexible. It encourages you to structure your babies' day in the same, repetitive order, so that your lo knows what is coming next, but it isn't driven by exact times, and it removes the 'clock watching' element.

Maybe have a look at them both, and see which one more closely resembles the routine he was on before.

I think your temporary loss of routine is less down to the jabs and more down to the fect that he is getting older! My DS is nearly 9 months now, and several times, our 'routine' (I use the word loosely) has gone to pot for a few days, and a new one emerges, with perhaps more awake time between sleeps, or shorter naps etc.

I'm sure a new one will evolve in time, but I see no harm in encouraging him down that route by trying one of those two, as long as you stop and try something else if it clearly isn't working.

IIRC, at that age, my DS was awake for about 2 hrs between naps, and slept for 3/4 - 1 hr at a time until bed at 7 ish. That routine wasn't out of a book, it's what he wanted, but it meant he was very predictable so that was good enough for me.

It does sound as if he may be overtired in the evenings if he's crying a lot.

Like others have said, try to have a set wind down routine to bed time, maybe bath, feed and cuddle then curtains shut, lullaby toy on, into bed and lights out ( or whatever works for you)

I'm sure you'll be back on track in a few days, whatever you do - I remember many times thinking 'Oh no, it's all going wrong', only so find it sorted itself out in a day or two, and my ds had just grown up a bit!!!

Good luck whatever you decide.

[Jojay]

I would also keep the dream feed going until he's established on solids at about 7 months. As you say, it's much easier to cope with than 4 am wake ups, but when DS phased it out on his own accord once he was on 3 meals a day, it caused no problems.

[HonoriaGlossop]

oh, and I agree with jojay, I fed ds at about 11pm for AGES! It's worth doing to keep the night waking to a minimum!

I totally second what Jo said too, about things changing as they grow....you'll hit on a perfect routine, then suddenly things will go a bit haywire; it's just a case of going with any changes that are needed. You're not likely to have ONE routine that lasts till toddlerhood, though some aspects of the routine may last that long, for instance my ds kept his long mid-day nap till he was around two years old.

[SamirsMummy]

Thanks again everyone.

We've just started the crying now (6.45) and to me he does sound tired! Trouble is we've just done bath and he won't take a feed - he's just crying. I guess he will fall asleep without the feed and I'll dreamfeed him as usual later on. Does anyone recommend feeding him before the bath? That is what my partner wants to do, but I heard you shouldn't bath them on a full stomach (like swimming for us!). Does anyone know?

I think Jojay may be right in that he is just getting older and changing his patterns. I bathed him at 6.30 tonight so will try an earlier bath tomorrow and see if it works.

Honoria - He usually has a nap in the morning for about an hour and a longer sleep in the afternoon. He sometimes has one at lunchtime too. Not having a routine it's hard to say how much he sleeps in the day - maybe I should start writing it all down so that I know!

Thanks so much everyone as your advice is very welcome and much needed! Someone said to me that with babies, just as you feel you are 'getting there' something comes along to change everything and it all goes topsy turvy again! Think that's what's happened to us this week.

[HonoriaGlossop]

As a first little plan, how about giving him a nap at 9am for about an hour, then putting him down again at about mid-day. The hope is that he might sleep for two hours then....and also a little power nap at 4pm, maybe fifteen mins or so.

My ds dropped that 4pm nap quickly though, so I ended up with his long nap 12 - 2/2.30pm, then I would feed him at 5 and he'd be in bed sometimes at 5.30 sometimes 6pm.

Why don't you cut out his evening bath and just do it 2 or three times a week? They don't need bathing every day. A quick wash will do. Maybe the bath is tiring for him at the end of the day. And it means you can feed him when you like without worrying about his full tummy?

[SamirsMummy]

Edit:

he took the feed eventually

Now fast asleep, bless him.

[SamirsMummy]

Sorry Honoria, didn't see your message then. That all sounds very workable for me and I'll definitely give it a try. He does tend to sleep around the times you mentioned most days so I think it's a good idea. I'll also try not doing the bath every day - I didn't think about it being tiring for him

[SamirsMummy]

Thanks everyone for your advice and help. He's now in a loose routine that he and I worked out between us! He has good naps in the day now and goes down more easily in the evening.

Thanks again to everyone who helped! I really appreciate it