DD1 aged 5 - is this normal?

[jeangenie]

DD1 is aged 5 and just completing reception - I know she is tired after a full-on year but is this normal?
tantrums (full on screaming and shouting) approx 5 times daily (medium day, more on a bad day)
won't sleep at night until about 9/9.30
super sensitive to everything
on the way home after school today kept telling me she wanted to kill herself (we'd had a bit of a standoff when she wanted to go in her little sisters buggy instead of walking which was too tricky with the traffic)- is saying you want to die/kill yourself normal at just turned 5? it sounds a bit heavy to me
she has just started having wee accidents in the last few weeks, wee'd in bed last night
now she has developed little pimples all around her mouth and nose and one of her nostrils is looking all sore and raw
I've kept her off school two days in the last week to try to let her rest/sleep as I reckon she is just exhausted but she just doesn't ever seem to wind down. yesterday was reception class picnic in the park too, which ordinarily I'd have thought she'd love but she didn't want to go at all
does this sound normal? any ideas on how to help her relax a bit? what do you reckon to the pimply things?

[Lilliput]

Don't kids have some sort of hormone surge at this age? Maybe that's just boys. I'm sure that someone will come along soon with a better reply than mine.

[SSSandy2]

Sounds worrying to me. Is she happy at school? Does she like her teacher? Does she sit next to someone she likes?

[LeafTurner]

It does sound worrying - BUT - it is end of term and she will be absolutley knackered. She also sounds like she might be coming down with something - or is just generally run down maybe ? Occassionally when my dd gets like this I give her a couple of nights of Medised induced sleep ! Just lets her catch up on sleep without her giving in iyswim ?

As for the wanting to die stuff - my dd repeats a lot of stuff that she hears without actually understanding what she is saying - hopefully that's what your dd is doing.

I think - try and get her rested - and keep an eye on her.

Pimples ? allergy to something ? Impetigo ?

[HelenLoveJoyOfSpringfield]

Saying she wants to die & kill herself sounds awful & isn't normal I am afraid Jeangenie.


I would take her to the doc about the pimply things & ask him to maybe get her blood checked out incase she's run down.. it can happen in children as well as stressed adults.

Also to just start wetting her bed etc out of the blue sounds worrying.

I am sorry if this isn't what you wanted to hear, but I have a 5.5yr old & yes, she can be moody & weepy, but not to this extent... this poor child sounds desperately unhappy about something

I'm not trying to worry you, but I really feel for her & for you.. imagine feeling that young that you don't want to live anymore

[jeangenie]

there have been some issues with a little boy in her class over the year, he has indiagnosed as yet SEN and is very taken with DD1, he is very big and strong but finds it difficult to draw line between a hug and a stranglehold. She used to dislike this immensely but has never been the kind of girl who will just tell someone to Sod Off. Which was basically what the school told me she needed to do (rather than taking any responsibility themselves for looking out for the kids) - but I shouldn't get started on that now as it makes me
I thought the kids were getting on ok now though, they play together a lot and he seems to have calmed down
maybe there is something else
things can be a bit strained at home at times, for various reasons so perhaps she is picking up on that too
think might take her to GP tomorrow, although it is last day at school...
am getting worried now

[jeangenie]

UNdiagnosed

[Elasticwoman]

Yes, I'd be worried. Could you have a word with her teacher and ask if there's anythng going on in school? Is there anywhere other than school that she spends time without you?
Sounds like you have at least one younger child, but could you set aside some one-to-one time with dd and try to find out if anythng is going on that you don't know about? You've probably already tried that last one, but it could take time.

[Elasticwoman]

Sorry Jeangenie, hadn't read your last post. The very same thing happened with my friend's child. Well, a similar thing. Her 5 year old,N, was lionised by SEN child, A. A became physically violent when N didn't give all her attention, or took any notice of other children. The school got involved and dealt with it - you should insist that your school does, imo. Once the school put certain measures in place, the problem went away, but not before N had lost lots of weight and become a sad child. Good news is, now she's fine

[jeangenie]

she doesn't spend time anywhere else - we had a mother's help who picked her up from school and brought her home a couple of days a week but she is gone now
I was very concerned about the relationship between DD1 and the boy at school but as I said his behaviour does seem to have calmed down so I had stopped worrying so much

I spoke to his parents about it and both sets of parents spoke to the school - teacher just said DD1 never mentioned any problem (she was 4 fgs )so they couldn't do much - they don't sit at same table at school but do gravitate twoards each other out of class

tomorrow is last day at school and she will have new teacher next year - is it still worth having chat with teacher?

what measures did your friend's school put in place EW?

[jeangenie]

aha - just googled the pimples thing and apparently this can be a sign of strep throat - she has been complaining of sore throat and I've had a rotten one myself for the past week or so (I thought she was just copying me for a bit of attention) - will def take her to the dr tomorrow and see what they say
I'll ask about the other stuff too, though in my experience GPs aren't too interested

[Elasticwoman]

Can't remember exactly what the measures were, Jeangenie - I'll have to ask my friend and I might not see her for a few days. If tomorrow is the last day of term, she won't see other child for 6 weeks, and will have a chance to get over any physical illness and tiredness, so that's all good.

[jeangenie]

hmm, am wondering though whether she needs to move classes - he will be in her class again next year, and again every year until yr6
still, perhaps a different teacher next year will make a difference. It would be a shame to move her from her other friends. The little boy should have his diagnosis by then also (I know the assessment was happening recently) so that may make it easier for the school to know how to handle things better
I think I will set a meeting with new teacher for very early on in new term and see what they think
thanks EW - any info you do get from your friend greatfully received BTW

[SSSandy2]

I would definitely change classes if you can and I would actively promote other friendships. If she is with 2-3 other dc rather than alone, he may leave her alone. I think the school needs to know the extent of the problem at home. THe teacher is maybe occupied with disruptive, struggling, naughty dc in class and oversees your dd suffering quietly perhaps.

[Elasticwoman]

If the problem is in the playground then changing classes won't help, and will in effect be punishing your dd and giving the SEN child the green light to continue that behaviour.

[jeangenie]

I am not going to rush into changing classes just yet - DD has other friends in that class and the worst of it (if there is in fact anything going on now) no doubt happens in playground
I have been actively promoting other friendships - we've had 4 or 5 other little girls around for separate playdates and been invited back so that's all positive and I am sure does help, just not enough
we often end up spending time with this little boy outside of school as we all walk the same way home and there is a park en route that the kids stop to play in, so ofcourse they end up together
I asked DD about him today though and she said things are fine, whereas before she used to ALWAYS say that he had been horrible to her and that she didn't like him. They seem to get on better now.
So I am not sure that is the full problem.
Anyway, I took her to the GP today and he said he thinks she is suffering from stress, which he said is unusual in a child her age. He advised not to take her to school today so we had a picnic in the park with DD2 and then chilled out with a video (and a trip to B&Q ). So now she has the summer hols over which we can monitor her and see if things get better. He was concerned over the wanting to die stuff, especially as she seems to understand the context of what she was saying and so plans to discuss with his colleagues and get back to me tomorrow. He did take things seriously which I was pleased by.
I guess it might be worth a letter to the head at this stage letting her know DD has been diagnosed with stress and telling her that we'll need to discuss it in more detail and make sure is monitored properly next term...

[Aefondkiss]

for you and the worry jeangenie, your dd sounds really low... it is good the doc took what you had to say seriously

is your dd looking forward to the holidays?

my dd was so excited about the holidays starting, not the same problems as your dd, tantrums yes, very emotional(we just moved house) but she loves being at home, went through a phase of saying she didn't want to go to school after these holidays, just stay at home with me(she didn't find school a very easy place to be)... she is starting at a new school so I am hoping it is a positive place for her...

I hope your dd has a good summer and you find a way to help her.

[Elasticwoman]

Am impressed by the sound of your supportive gp, Jeangenie. I haven't forgotten to ask my friend about those measures, but I don't see her every day because she works.

[TheMoistWorldOfSeptimusQuench]

Hi Jeangenie. Sorry to hear about that you & DD are going through this.

If it's of any help, I remember very clearly being about 4 years old, and telling my mother that I wanted to die, because I wanted to know what it's like. She was absolutely horrified. But I had no concept of the finality of death, or of the impact of the word. I was genuinely curious, and I suppose I just thought it was another part of life - like being asleep for a long time.

Anyway, I hope you all manage to have a happy & peaceful summer holiday

[jeangenie]

thanks guys

DD1 is looking forward to hols very much, can't stop talking about them (we go to same place with same crowd every year and she LOVES it) - hopefully that'll relax her a bit
doesn't help that D and I are both complete stressbunnies and this year has been particularly bad with work issues, money issues, childcare issues, psychopathic lodger issues etc etc etc so we've been fairly down and tension has probably been quite high at the homestead
I also wonder whether poor old DD1 has been unlucky enough to get both our sets of stress genes


anyway - see what GP has to offer tomorrow (and yes - he was very nice to us)

SQ - thanks for that reassurance - hopefully it is nothing, or she knew it would push my buttons or something - I got worried though when I said "oh but DD1 if you died you wouldn't be able to come to holiday place" and she replied "I don't care - I just don't want to live anymore"

[Balls]

Just make sure that when you are on holiday you give her a million reasons to live. My heart goes out to you. Try and relax to the max with her. Sorry just watched that programme about adoption and am feeling unduly emotional.

[jeangenie]

you are right balls - this afternoon when DD2 was having her nap we played tumbling monkeys, just the two of us, and she laughed so much it almost made me cry
I let her cheat the whole way through and she thought it was hilarious
I'm going to try to switch all my own career/money/life worries off for a while and just have fun with her

[Balls]

well done,

[Elasticwoman]

Jeangenie - spoke v fleetingly to N's mother and asked what the measures were. She said, as she ran past, they were to do with ignoring the behaviour and would give me more details anon.

[jeangenie]

have been away for a while but some more disturbing stuff from DD1 yesterday about being too tired to go on with life - I am very worried. Waiting for appointment with community mental health team now but very concerned...

I think she is depressed (at 5 ) anyone got any ideas on how to help her while I wait for the appointment (and ideas on how to keep myself from worrying myself into the ground or disappearing under a dark shroud of guilt also welcome - can't help thinking it must be my fault somehow)

[constancereader]

Just wanted to say that I have had experience a couple of times with children who said 'I just want to die' or variations (I am a teacher). I think that it was a response to stress that indicates that they are unhappy, want to let you know and that they have realised that they will be taken seriously as it gets people's attention, rather than a genuine wish to not be here anymore. That is just my opinion btw, but I thought you might be reassured to know that other children can say the same thing.

If you feel it might help, try getting her to draw a picture of how she feels at the moment. She might be able to put things down that will start a discussion with you. I have done this a few times - I don't think it will do any harm if it is kept quite low key.