I'm at a loss with my 8.5yr old dd.......any advice please?

[justgivemeoneminute]

My dd is driving me insane. She's 8.5yrs old and all she does is answer back, question everything, she's horrible to her younger sister (3), horrible to me, horrible to her Dad...and yesterday she even hit me on the forearm - not hard and didn't hurt but its the fact she did it which completely shocked me and made me very angry...so I put her on the stairs and smacked her on the leg. She hit me because she would not move out of the front doorway to allow her sister through so I asked her countless times to move, which she refused to so I grabbed her by the wrist to push her along and to retaliate she hit me.

I was so disgusted with her (this was as we came home from school) I sent her to the bathroom to run a bath, I then told her after her bath she was to stay in her room until her tea was ready, she came down for her tea and I then told her to return to her room until it was time to go to bed - it was then lights out at 7pm and she slept through the night....

This morning she's ok but already I can hear a disagreement going on downstairs between her and dh and I can hear dh telling her 'you always want the last word'.

I am absolutely fed up with her ruining my evenings - I'm tired enough by the evening and its really getting me down. Its the same old routine of having to diffuse disagreements between her and her sister and me having to tell her to mind what she says, cut the attitude etc etc. I've even banned tv (Tracy Beaker is a definite no-no) and don't have a problem banning other activities if it comes to it.

Any advice? Please?

[chocolateteapot]

No words of advice really I'm afraid, but wanted to say that I have friends with girls a year older than my DD (also 8.5) and I remember from last year that round this age they do start to get stroppy. The general census amongst my friends was that they start getting hormonal at this age.

[mymama]

My dd is almost the same age and you could be describing her. I don't really have any advice as I am working my way through it each day. I think in the circumstances you described I would have dished out similar punishment.

I am trying to take the view that it is hormonal and that dd is growing into her self with her own opinions and thoughts on things. She is becoming independent without the experience and maturity to handle it properly. I know my dd doesn't mean half of what she says and does but can't self-control iyswim.

I think the best way to go is to pick your fights - ignore the little things and act on the important things. For me it is anything that affects the kind of person she will be - rudeness (especially to adults), nastiness to her younger ds's, lying, manners, schoolwork and so on. Disagreements with her brothers and a little attitude does not bother me too much as we can all feel this way at times (I do anyway).

I saw my Dr with my dd yesterday about something unrelated and mentioned the moods and some other symptoms and he said hormones are definitely a factor at this age. hth

[justgivemeoneminute]

I've heard before it's probably racing hormones with her but it doesn't, in my view, excuse the fact she hit me and its that act that I'm finding really quite hard to deal with considering she's NEVER lashed out at me before.

Having just picked her up from school she looks completely shattered so I think a good meal and an early night is in order for her for the rest of the day. She's been ok since she's been home from school - just a little bit abrupt when talking and she's no patience with her younger sister, who is 3, and too young to understand her sister is being moody and to leave her alone!

[justgivemeoneminute]

.

[ktmoomookimono]

my dd just turned 9 and you describing her

[justgivemeoneminute]

So how do you cope?

[dustystar]

Just like my dd as well - also 8 1/2. She is so rude to me sometimes that I honestly am lost for words.

[HonoriaGlossop]

I think you shouldn't focus too much on her hitting you. Basically what you describe was a physical fracas between both of you; you grabbed her, she felt small because of it and retaliated physically, you then retaliated physically. As I'm sure you are more than aware smacking her for hitting you wouldn't teach her much.

I understand that you feel at the end of your tether with her and it sounds as if there's a negative cycle going on; is it possible to kind of 'blank' her more so that you dont get drawn into these 'last word' conversations?

Have to go now but will check back and try to be more constructive!

[dustystar]

I use timeout mostly. It doesn't always stop the behaviour but it does at least get her away from me when she is driving me up the wall. Also plenty of praise and cuddles when she is behaving seem to help.

[ktmoomookimono]

i dont cope i just shout then feel guilty she can be a litle moo sometimes and i think it our fault but i know it not . she drives me potty with her no and defience

[Desiderata]

Difficult times

I don't have a child of this age yet, but hormones or no, you're certainly right about one thing. The behaviour is unacceptable.

I was watching the news a couple of months back, where they were discussing childhood behaviour. A rather wise man being interviewed suggested that all parents remember one basic principle ... and stick to it.

Your house is not a democracy. YOU are the boss.

I think you're doing the right things, and fingers crossed that in six months time, she'll be a different little girl altogether

[WideWebWitch]

My ds was like this at 8.5 and is atm at DREAM at 9.5

My views, fwiw:

It's STILL about attention, wanting it from you and not wanting 3yo to get it instead (I have a 3yo too)
I use the 'soft no' quite a bit, i.e. I don't react, I give him an option to choose to be good so "I'm not very happy with this behaviour and if you carry on then xyz will happen but I'd rather not do that. It's entirely up to you what you do next, I'll let you think about it" all said v v calmly and I walk away as if I don't care.
Pck your battles, as always
Catch her being good and praise for it, even when it's what you expect i,e. atm I say to ds "by the way I noticed your manners were lovely in that restaurant, it was great being out with you" and he visibly glows at the praise
can you let her stay up later than her sibling on the condition she doesn'tbother you? I let ds play in his room, but he is NOT to bother us or wake dd.

[WideWebWitch]

Oh also, house rules typed on the wall worked well for ds. They were v specific and applied to ALL of us

Use a normal voice (ie. no shouting)
Violence is unacceptable
that kind of thing. they were v simple, nothing hard. And I apologised if I broke them too, by shouting say. And be a good example to them too, so if I am calmer then I find my children are too.

[LoveMyGirls]

I've had this with my dd1 who will be 8 in a few weeks, we started letting her go out the front of the house with her bike a few weeks ago, since then her attitude has got much worse, i warned her lots of times to cut it out or i wouldn't keep letting her go outside (i think she thought as i had started letting her i wouldn't stop her doing it - no idea where she got that from)

Last straw came on sunday when we took her and her sister (1) to a big park with our friends and their ds, her behaviour was awful, i was so ashamed that our friends saw her behaving so badly I said that was it, no more going out the front. The next day she was in a foul mood because i'd stopped her going out, she sulked and was horrible to me and mindee (im a childminder) she said she didnt want me to work and didnt like mindee and was horrible to us both. That night I sat and did a reward chart if you like you can msn me and i will send it to you to use?
It basically starts with her bedtime at 7.30 then bit by bit is reduced with a warning each time until it gets to 6.30pm then i start confiscating things if by sunday nothing has been confiscated she is allowed back out to play and get her pocket money if not then she is grounded for another week and again we review on a sunday. At the end of each day i write a couple of comments about how she has behaved so when we look back i can see exactly what happened.

Progress has been good so far she has gone to bed on time the past 2 nights, 2 days she had 15mins knocked off her bedtime. I'm quite strict as well she only gets one warning and if i have to speak to her about it again it's 15mins off her bedtime, none of this "you really don't want me to take more time off" repeat 10 times.

[dustystar]

Actually 'the last word' thing is a problem isn't it. There is a discipline program called 123 Magic that is good for this. The idea is that when your child starts to misbehave you say "Thats a one" and hold up one finger. You then give them about 5 seconds to comply with your wishes and if they don't you say "thats a 2" and hold up 2 fingers. If after a further 5 seconds they are still playing up you say "thats a 3 take a timeout". the timeout should be one year for each year of their life. It is important that you don't get drawn into any conversation at all during this as then they can argue with you.

It works really well when dh and I do it properly but we have been a bit crap recently. I think we'll have to do it again. DH loves it as he says he always knows exactly what to do and say.

[WideWebWitch]

Agree about it being a minor fracas too, don't get too worried about it. She wants your attention, bet you. It's hard but also I think you should REALLY not let her see how annoyed/hard you're finding her. I found it VERY difficult not to scream at ds I HATE YOU AT THE MOMENT but I made myself keep telling him I loved him (which I did, of course, but I really didn'tlove the way he behaved or made me feel a lot of the time for a while back there). Also check there's nothing bothering her, can you and she have maybe a dinner out just the two of you where you give her your undivided attention and ask how she is?

[SecondhandRose]

Oh dear, my DD is 8.5 too. Do you have clear behaviour boundaries? No hitting, no rudeness ever? Maybe you react to it differently one day to another so maybe sometimes she can get away with it.


I would say snuggled in bed no later than 8pm or earlier if you think she is tired. Just change the clocks if she tells the time.

Make sure she gets some one to one attention at bedtime for a story.

Don't make threats you won't carry out. Ie don't say she can't go to a certain party if you know she will go in the end. But do cancel a play date if she misbehaves.

[LoveMyGirls]

Totally agree with WW, talk with a calm voice as if you don't care then when you do shout for really bad stuff (say for eg if she hurts her sister or you)

[justgivemeoneminute]

dustystar....don't you mean 'one minute for each year'!??!!! I can't see dd staying in time out for 8.5yrs!!

Thanks for all your comments. I know smacking is not good and doesn't do anything for either her or me but sometimes she drives me so mad and I just snap.

I do try and devote one to one time with her but its not easy when dh doesn't get home from work until quite late and I've got the 3yr old to deal with too. When she does do something nice - for example she walked to school this morning holding her sister's hand all the way - I told her I thought it was lovely and well done etc. She looked over at me and gave me a big smile. I've always complimented her on good behaviour and if she does something nice I comment on it.

It just gets me down when she does answer back, retaliate, hit out, shout, scream, stomp, slam doors etc etc - I'm bored of it and don't want to hear it.

I know her age plays a big part in her behaviour - I was told recently that when girls hit the age of 7yrs their hormones start developing and girls can change big time...she is a very tall girl for her age and has started to 'develop' physically but no more than any other girl her age but I'm sure she knows she's growing up and is testing her boundaries.

When she is nice she is lovely. She can be such a caring, lovely sweet natured girl but when she's horrible she is awful...bit like the girl with the curl in the middle of her forehead: 'when she is good she is very very good, when she is bad she is horrid!!'..

I don't remember lashing out at my parents. If anything I lived in fear of being told off by my parents and if ever I was told by my Mother 'Wait till your Father gets home' I'd wet my pants! With dd - she just shrugs her shoulders and walks away...

[nooka]

I think that some of it is overtiredness at this time of year. My ds (also 8, but no hormonal excuse I guess!) is playing up particulalry at the moment, and to be honest I think he just really needs a good holiday.

[justgivemeoneminute]

Yea she is very very tired. I saw her this afternoon, whilst doing her sports day at school, and the bags under her eyes were really noticeable. She is also not very good at drinking her water at school - I've told her teacher to make sure she drinks but she's one of 33 kids so I guess its expecting rather a lot.

We've got a camping holiday booked the first week of the school holidays so I'm hoping we can all just chill out and do nothing for the week...

I just listen to her sometimes and look at her and think back over 30 yrs ago when I was her age...had I spoken to my Mum like that I wouldn't have been able to sit down for a good week....iykwim

[chocolateteapot]

There is some good advice on here, I especially agree with WWW. I've had some time to think about what I do with my DD who luckily at the moment is being fine. She's starting a new school on Monday so is very distracted with that.

She was a bit of a nightmare about 6 months ago. I think we turned a corner when the cycle of debating with her when I told her off. I found myself saying a few times "because I say so" and knowing that there are some things that she has to do just because she has to seems to have taught her a good lesson. I hated saying it as I sounded just like my Dad.

Pasta jars & reward charts haven't worked for her as she got to the stage where she sat there and I told her something like "eat more of your tea" and would reply "what do I get if I do". Again it was the principle of her learning that she has to do things because it's just a part of life and the rules that we as a society stick to.

I also chose my battles very carefully but when I had one I meant business and I was very consistent and never made a threat I didn't carry out, even when she was convinced I wouldn't.

Finally we've got to the stage where she knows when I adopt a certain tone and look that I mean business and she doesn't push it (as I did when my Mum did that) She does have a tendency to take things out on her brother (3) as he can't tell when to leave her alone, but that is improving.

[justgivemeoneminute]

Thanks...that is another problem...trying to explain to a 3yr old when to leave her elder sister alone - at 3yrs old they don't really understand and it just adds fuel to the fire when I'm trying to calm a situation, explain to younger sister to leave elder one alone and keep my cool too..not easy

[chocolateteapot]

I know what you mean, it gets a bit hard going sometimes doesn't it ?!

I listen to it for a bit, then intervene when I think it's about to get out of hand and get them to do things in different rooms. I don't always do it and I leave them to it for a bit before. Hopefully another year or two and they will have got it. We'll probably have very white hair by then but they will have got it !

My DD hasn't got when to leave her brother either actually. He's been getting very tired and emotional and she often jumps in to make it worse.

[WideWebWitch]

Don't EXPLAIN to the 3yo, distract her, give her something else to do, show her somethnig pretty, they're very distractable at 3 but reasoning with them is often wasted time ime.

And forget what you think YOU were like, it's not relevant really and anyway, you are not your parents. that 'not being able to sit down for a week' thing sounds horrible, poor you. I do think smacking is inappropriate, won't work and, in any case, is illegal.