15-weeks-old and furious! Help, MNs- is this normal?

[Tippis]

My 1st ever thread so hope am doing it right...(when I previewed it there were weird ' figures coming up wherever I had typed an apostrophe- sorry, not sure why )anyway my 15 week old DS has had quite a tough time from the get-go- difficult birth, very colicy, dreadful baby eczema etc etc, so we kind of hit the ground screaming and carried on that way for about 11 weeks. But in between yells he had long smiley chuckling times so we figured all was par for the course.
However he has just started having what sound like furious temper tantrums in the last 3 weeks- making an awful growling, straining sort of noise, as if gritting his teeth in a rage and going GRRRRAAAGGGHHHHH! For long periods at a time too, going bright red (but not constipated). Sounds like real fury and frustration. Looking back, it seemed to start around the time I was coming down with mastitis, but I don't know if there is a connection- had to stop breastfeeding for a while (antibiotics upset his tum). However the rages are still going even though we have got breatfeeding going quite well again after a few days of struggle. I don't think it's hunger, as that tends to be a different noise. He has pretty much stopped doing it during feeds now my milk is virtually back to normal,but will go into one at seemingly random times- when playing etc. He does have happy times too and still smiles and coos sometimes.
Can MNs advise/ re-assure me? I don't have any family around to ask or other babies to compare to. If it's just a normal developmental thing- experimenting with his voice, getting frustrated as he develops new skills and wants to do more- that's fine. But I've never heard or read of such little babies behaving like this- I thought it was more 2-year-olds that had tantrums, if that's what they are. In my darkest moments I'm afraid I might have a stressed-out, disturbed tot on my hands, and get quite upset at the 'loss' of my sweet little baby...OK he was colicy, but even that was a comparatively cute kind of 'help me' noise compared to this- distressing, sure, but for different reasons. I don't THINK the home environment is too stressful- he gets non-stop cuddles, kisses and love from me and DH and I feed him whenever he wants.
Any comparable experiences out there, and how did they turn out?

[lljkk]

My babies did something very similar but they weren't actually unhappy, just learning how to use their bodies.

Wait until he's about 5 months old and discovers "shrieking" for fun.

[muppetgirl]

When I complained to my HV about the total frustration my ds appeared to be in she said, 'this is going to sound crazy but I have been doing this for 20 years....some babies are aware of their bodies and their limitations and aren't happy to be babies'

This may sound weird but try to see if there is a reason as to why you dc is frustrated -my ds was couldn't reach toys he wanted as wasn't physically able and was puce with rage. I have him on film as I wanted to show my dh as it looked so weird!

He did grow out of it but it did rear it's head agian with crawling -We have him on film 'rocking' angrily! -and also when he walked.

He's fine now -I was worried this was going to be indicitive of his personlity but it's not turned out that way.

[Tippis]

Thank you both, you've pretty much re-assured me out of my Exorcist-type day-mares! I think you're right that it may be at least partly frustration with not being able to do all he wants; watched DS after your posts and the did seem to be shortly mostly playing fast and furiously, so probably the toys wouldn't do what he wanted. I hope so anyway- I hope I haven't lost my cutely-cooing tiny lad forever, I did love all that! Have a good w/e all

[Heated]

I'm not being facetious but could it be wind? My friend's bf baby has nearly always done an angry, red growling sound to either bring it up or force it down!

[flamingtoaster]

If you continue to feel he is getting frustrated then it might be worth thinking about baby signing when he is old enough as this will help remove frustration over not being able to communicate what he wants. I wish it had been around when DS was tiny! Muppetgirl is absolutely right that some babies/young children get very frustrated when they are about to make a developmental breakthrough. DS did this - we got quite adept at identifying what was causing the frustration and sometimes we could help speed up the breakthrough - other times you just have to wait!

[Tippis]

Hmm these are possibilities- he was a VERY colicy baby Heated, so could be wind; just that this noise he makes is new, unlike previous colicy cries- hard to describe a sound but it's more like a really frustrated grown man going tonto than something you expect from a baby! Really freaks me out...Anyway am trying Infacol again just in case.
I hate to say in case I jinx it, but he's been a BIT better today and I think my milk's improving again, so maybe it was that...

• About the signing, Flaming do you have friends who have tried it successfully with their dc? Do you know how old they need to be? I've heard of it but wondered if it wasn't a gimmicy thing, and also am brassic -but if it works cost doesn't matter.Be interested to hear more about it.Thank you both...

[KTNoo]

Does he seem to need a lot of stimulation or can you put him down on his playmat for a while? I'm just asking because my DD1 (now 6!) seemed to be very frustrated as a baby, e.g. at 2 weeks old she cried when the car stopped at red lights and stopped when we moved again; at 3 months old she got into such a rage at being put on her mat that she rolled right over! Anyway, she reached all her milstones very early and is now an extremely bright child, if still rather demanding!

[flamingtoaster]

KTNoo - I agree that bright babies are particularly prone to expressing frustration and the problem eases considerably once they can communicate.

Tippis - I don't know anyone who has used signing, but I firmly believe it would have helped DS. He went through terrible frustrations until he was 18 months old and his language was fluent enough to explain precisely what he wanted. He would actually head bang at times (at one stage we had very large soft cushions all over the house to slip underneath at the critical moment) and this stopped as soon as could make himself fully understood.

You'll find both sides of the babysigning argument here:

www.literacytrust.org.uk/talktoyourbaby/signing.html

It is a short term solution - but it might be useful. I know how awful it is to see a little one in distress and not be able to work out exactly what is needed!

[suezee]

have you thought he may be teehing ????? i would try some bonjella and 2.5ml of calpol or calprofen the calprofen helps a bit better as it helps with the inflammation

[krispiecakes]

my ds (now 4) was a frustrated angry baby too. he didnt really change until he was able to walk and communicate his needs (about 1) but from then on was a totally different child.
dd (8 months)is a very different baby. i wonder if its a boy thing? some kind of early testosterone surge, natural male agression etc?

[Tippis]

Yes I do wonder if it's a 'boy thing', you don't like to make assumptions but most of the Mums in my PN group have girls, and they are so good when we meet for coffee, sitting on their Mums' laps for ages, while GUESS WHO has to be put back in pram, endlessly pushed about and given dummies! Though I see some posters have had similarly 'lively' DDs, the Mums I know with sons do mostly seem to have had more challenging times.
-Suezee I wondered about teething- is 15 weeks too young though? Friends have said it's too soon but he certainly looks like it at times, tries to stuff whole fists in mouth and dribbles like a basketball pro. Hard to get good look in his cake'ole and don't know what I'm looking for (well OK, teeth obviously!)How can I know for sure?

KTNoo, yes he does want lots of stimulation and seems to get bored and cross if not talked to and played with 99% of the time. But then he can get fractious through over-stimulation and it's hard to know where the line is- he doesn't do anything straighforward like go to sleep when he's tired! He fights sleep like you wouldn't believe. Also will get mardy as soon as pram or car stops moving.
I'm going to hope it is because he's bright rather than just stroppy! I try hard not to make assumptions about how he'll turn ut but it's hard not to worry at times, so always glad to hear of bright and happy DC who were tricksy babies! Flamingt I will look at that site, thanks for the link.

[mistlethrush]

Ds stopped colic after having cranial osteopathy - immediately after 3rd session - if he had a difficult birth might be worth a go just in case there is something still not quite right that is causing him problems - this would be associated with wind problems too... However, ds also started teething at 3months although 1st tooth didn't come until 6 months, so certainly not too young for that to be the problem.

[suezee]

on the whole teething thing theyre never too early to start teething....just feel his gums with your little finger and they may feel bumpy, and maybe a bit softer. he sounds to be having the notorious signs for teething, also i would use calgel or dentinox as they arent as strong as bonjela(and taster much nicer for a baby) so u can use them more frequently.Also i would stock up on the ibuprofen as this helps with the inflammation )

[mcnoodle]

TRust your instincts. If you think something's not right talk to your gp and hv. He may still be colicky/windy. He may have some reflux.

Either way, alot of people on MN, including me, have had good results from cranial osteopathy. Search for threads to get more info.

Good luck - it does get easier.

[KTNoo]

Tippis my stroppy dd1 used to fight sleep for ages too. I think she was around 4 months when she learned to settle herself in her cot, which was probably just due to me having the confidence to say ok, I know you are tired, and just leave her. I think she used to cry for 10 mins or so, but as she got older she stopped crying when I put her in her cot. I know it's easy to say it worked for me - my dd3 would keep going for an hour and now has a dummy for settling to sleep (but is much happier in general than dd1 was - not sure how much of that is due to having the stimulation of watching the 2 older ones all the time). I know how it feels when everyone else's baby seems so content - my dd1 would never just sit in her pram and just be. I'm sure you're going to be so proud of how clever he is soon! My dd crawled at 6 months and things got a lot better as she could go and get what she wanted. Hang in there!

[TheArmadillo]

Ds was exactly like this as a baby. Mostly I think it was fustration at being a baby (IYSWIM). NOw a toddler he is so much better. Things started to get better as soon as he could crawl.

Cranial osteopathy helped his colic (which he had terribly) a bit when he was very young, but as he got older it had less affect. But he did grow out of it (moved on to chronic constipation instead ).

The best thing we found was when he got himself really worked up (he burst a blood vessel in his eye more than once ) was to ring a bell or clap our hands. THis seemed to grab his attention for a second and so break the cycle of him getting stuck in this angry screaming. HE would calm down almost immediately.

Once he could move around himself he improved dramatically. He is still very independantly minded (at 2.8) and wants to do everything himself. He talks well and that has eased a lot of his fustration.

[TooTicky]

My ds1 was screamingly angry for a month (12 weeks - 16 weeks). Still don't know why.

[Tippis]

This is all so interesting and THANK GOD it's not just me; I was blaming myself for being stressed in pregnancy- people have suggested to me that this could be the cause and it makes me feel TERRIBLE. I haemorrhaged twice in first trimester and thought DS was lost, and we never found out why (could it have been twins?)so after that were so anxious it was hard to enjoy the pregnancy. Then birth was pretty rough too, DS wasn't doing well at all and I think it was a pretty close call (emergency forceps delivery in the end after labour had stopped and his little heartbeat had crashed over and over)
I've been trying so hard to be calm and happy around him but cursing myself as I feared I'd 'damaged' him with stress hormones... I hope that isn't the case...feel a little less worried reading other MNs experiences.
Yes we tried 3 x cranial osteopathy, hard to say but maybe it helped a little. Would have liked to continue but money an issue- wonder if it's too late to go back now he's nearly 4 months...

[TooTicky]

Please don't blame yourself! Anybody who blames you is so, so wrong. Tell them so!

[1dilemma]

Tippis you sound very cool for a first timer with a stressed 'little man'.
I do hope he settles down a wee bit and I'm sure you'll get your smiler back, don't know if others have said but the teeth will show as pale gums and you can see them stretched over something white!! lower ones normally come first, it woud be early but not unheard of. My lo have gone through times of great frustration with their lack of abilities and do sound a bit like this but generally when they are a bit older. You could try rotating some of his toys a bit if he's surrounded by lots then he will get refreshed by new things, could try some nice relaxing music to see if that helps sometimes. Also it is possible to get free/subsidised cranial osteopathy someone was talking about it on here not long ago, so might be worth a search, a google or trying a post in health to see if others can help with that

[KTNoo]

Just remembered - what saved my sanity with my dd was long, long walks. Can you do this? She was happy-ish as long as we were moving. I usually stopped at the shop on the way home and she would always start yelling. That's when you get the "Somebody's hungry!" comments. I often felt like saying "Ok, you take her and see what you can do!" This was all very good for losing weight, needless to say it didn't happen with numbers 2 and 3, which, by the way, you don't worry about nearly as much, and wouldn't have time to think about blaming yourself! Sounds like you're doing a great job and I'm sure it will improve.

[MaeBee]

my boy was furious from birth until he could crawl, at about 6 months. and then he turned into a delight. i mean, hes still a total monster in a different way, and can throw a total wobbly, but he also thinks life is great and exciting and brilliant! he's 9 mths now and is just starting to walk. it was almost like my lo couldn't bear being powerless.
we get on so very well (give or take several arguements a day! but we enjoy each other loads too!) and i too was terrified i had a beast. he wouldn't be put down at all for the first 5 months either, just wanted to be carried about constantly.
remember the parent mantra that everything will pass!

[MaeBee]

oh, and my angry boy was forceps too.

[TheArmadillo]

ds was a difficult labour and was ventouse.

I used to spend ages walking round the park with him in the pram. It wasn't a very big park. I got so sick of it.

[Tippis]

I wonder if anyone's done research on the correlation between difficult births/ forceps etc. and cross nippers? Seems like a pattern emerging doesn't it. Thank you for your helpful
and kind posts- you wouldn't believe how much they strengthen the tiny worn thread by which my sanity is hanging!I'm encouraged to know several of your angry LOs turned out well and cheered up on crawling etc..
Anyway today was just AAAAAGGGHH! I wore DS around my neck for about 12 hours while he yelled in my ear and really has to fight to keep patience. I'd put him down and he'd either scream immediately if it was in the Dreaded Crib, his arch nemesis which he has come to loathe so much he freaks when I even get him through the door of the bedroom sometimes (any ideas on what to do MNs?), or even on his playmat which is usually OK- just went ballistic. The mad thing is he'd stop from time to time and smile at me and laugh for a few mins, then suddenly the bottom lip would go and WAAAHH for no apparent reason. Sigh Crazy little guy even gave me a huge hickey sucking my shoulder- teething or hunger d'you think? I breastfed him til I could do no more and then gave him formula, and he eventually crashed out. I'm going to have a look at his gums tomorrow as you suggest and I've bought him a teether.
-Yes, motion does help actually- and yes, I'm sick of every sodding duck in the park too! But at least it works 80% of the time- though the second I stop he wails! It worked better when he was a newbie- now he's SO nosey and wants to see out. Don't know if I should convert the me-facing pram to a pushchair- I like to be able to see him and it's nice and flat so he can sleep, but maybe he'd have more fun looking around in a chair?
Sorry MNs this is a rather rambling post, reflecting the state of mind of the poster!