What happens when you punish your child for something they have done?

[charliecat]

What happens when you punish (for want of a better word) your child for something they have done wrong?
The reason I ask is my 6.5 year old dd seems to have NO understanding of the fact that shes done wrong.
Yesterdays example was dd2 was walking past dd1 and dd1 kicked her. So I removed her from the room, attempted to get her to sit beside me for 5 mins for time out, she struggled and kicked and was screaming "im missing my video, im missing my video". I was like "Your meant to be missing your video, you should not kick dd2. Sit here quietly for 2 minutes then you can go and watch the rest"
But on no, struggle she did scream she did, so I went and switched the video off.
More screaming about the video which I totally ignored, with a few comments about why the video was switched off and about 30 mins later she had calmed down...but there was no remorse about what she had done, just anger at me for switching the video off.
This isnt a one off, this is how she is.
I would like her to say sorry(which she spits out if I ask which annoys me even more so I didnt even ask her to yesterday) and not just be thinking Im missing out on my video/toy/sweet.
Is that too much to ask????!!!!

[linniewith2]

This is a tough one! I've heard that to make them realy understand what your saying you must get down to their level and make eye contact wuth them. Explain that they have done a bad thing and explain why it was wrong. Time outs should also be done away from you and all stimulation find the most boring room in the house and close the door! But they should only be done after warning you will be taken to the time out room if you do this again if the behaviour continues then its time out time. Hope this helps.

[ScummyMummy]

Sounds like it may be too much to ask, cc. Maybe teaching her the boundaries is all you can do- getting her to tolerate/like the process may be impossible. Sounds like you are doing everything right by not giving in when she misbehaves and explaining once she's calmer.

I do think it might be worth NOT emphasising the fact that she's being punished when you talk to her, perhaps. Could you say something like: "I know you are angry I have taken you away from the video and you know that it's not ok to kick dd2. When you do that I have to take you away from what you are doing to calm down. If I let you go back, what could you do differently?" and letting her go back if she can give the "right" answer and follow through? I guess it depends on how hard a kick it was but if it was more for show than to injure I would be tempted to allow her a chance to redeem herself rather than let her get worked up into a rage, I think.

[charliecat]

I have tryed what you suggest SM and she just keeps saying I dont know I dont know, and even when i suggest the "right answer" she says I dont know I dont know...very irritating.
And L2 I was at eye level initially with my hands on her wrists very Super nanny style, I removed her from the room to try and get her full attention, i wanted her to miss a bit of her video, hoping she would think twice next time...and time out, sitting on the stairs doesnt work unless I physically keep her there(she just gets up and I have to manhandle her back, i dont do time out very often because of that) and she kicks the crap out of the door if i put her in her room to calm down, which as Im having to hold the door shut puts my blood pressure sky high.
She kicked dd2 in the chest, could have easily been the face so I couldnt just say Oh stop it, dont do that(which i would have had it been a wee tussle over a seat on the sofa or whatever)...I cannot stand my kids being horrid to one another.
How do your children react in similar situations?

[poppins]

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[SoupDragon]

Sorry Poppins, but I disagree with some of what you say.

"behaviour is learned" Not 100% sure about this one. DS1 (5) always has been well behaved (as much as small children are! He's not an angel 100% of the time) DS2 (3), however, is a loose cannon. Both have had the same upbringing, the same parenting techniques, the same approach to discipline but they are entirely different children. DS1 would (and still does) sit on the bottom stair to calm down after doing something "naughty" - he would even walk there himself if asked to! DS2 would/will not stay there at all. BTW, the stair is never the Naughty Stair, just a time out place where they could think about their behaviour. My point is that behaviour is more to do with the personality of the child.

Tantrums are more than the child misunderstanding situations. My personal favourite is when DS1 (2.5 at the time) threw a wobbly when I explained to him why he couldn't carry DS1 in his car seat. He didn't calm down when I let him try either! I don't think this was due to me letting him misunderstand the situation.

Anyway, different things work with different children and for different people!

My current discipline scheme is the pasta jar which I've wittered on about here there and everywhere. One jar, 5 pieces of pasta, give them piece for good behaviour, remove them for "bad", count up the pieces on a Saturday morning and give 10p for each piece, reset jar to 5 pieces. This seems to appeal to my DSs need for money (!), it allows for reward as well as punishemnt (which is v. important in my mind) and all I have to do to bring DS2 into line is threaten to take pasta away from him. He calms down immediately! It works for DS1 anyway, but he is the more easily controllable child anyway.

Charliecat, your DD1 sounds a lot like my DS2 as he protests loudly an violently when punished. When bargaining (eg I say "If you do X, you can have Y" he now counters with "If you let me have/do X, I won't punch you" !! Heaven knows where he got that one from! In angelic mode, he says that if you let him do X , he'll give you a hug which is better!!

[ginababe]

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[MeanBean]

What's the difference between a naughty step and time out? I use the step, because I can't be bothered to walk up the stairs, but I always give a warning first, that she'll have to go to the step if she doesn't stop doing whatever it is she's doing. Also impress on her that it's because her behaviour is naughty, not that she is.

[linniewith2]

as far as I am aware they are the same thing you are removing the child from all stimulation to calm down, if you can get them to stay ohn a naughty step then good if you cant then you must use a room with no stimulation in it. As long as you praise the good behaiviour and encourage them every time they are good then they should soon know that they get more attention when they are good than when they misbehave. I know we all probably tend to let them get on and play when they are being good but a few woods of praise goes along way

[Lara2]

One behaviour technique I was taught for DS1 (ADHD) is that when they have time out, no matter where it is, you firmly tell the child why they have time out and make sure that they understand that the time doesn't start until they are quiet. This time was roughly one minute for each of his years, (but you have to judge this for your child - it can't be longer, but it may have to be shorter). It could mean that they end up spending 30 minutes in time out, but the theory is, they are so bored that after a while, they do their time out with the minimum of fuss, or (oh joy!!) the undesired behaviour stops because they realise it just isn't worth the hassle.

[sis]

MeanBean, I think Poppins was trying to point out the negative conotations of calling it a 'naughty' step as opposed to having time out to calm down. A bit like you are not supposed to say that a child is naughty but to explain why whatever they did or did not do was unacceptable. Not sure if I am making much sense...

[HiddenSpirit]

CC, I haven't read all the thread, but you've heard me moan on what a horror DS1 can be. He does the exact same as your DD1. The only place he will stay put for timeout is on his bed (the top bunk) although he will proceed to throw the duvet/pillow/sheet on the floor. Have you tried that with DD1? DS1 is the same that he doesn't acknowledge that he's done wrong, only that he's so hard done by being sent for timeout and same with sorry being spat out.

I leave him on his bed until he calms down and sometimes that can be up to 1/2 hour then if I go in and he starts snarling at me/telling me to shut up I go away again and tell him he can come down when he's calmed down and had a think about what he's done.

No other advice I'm afraid