17.5 month old not making progress with communication/gestures

[NovMumOne]

I wonder if anyone can either put my mind at ease or help me out with what I need to do going forward, as help from GP/HV/other medical staff is just not happening.

My little girl was sitting at around 7 months, crawling around 11 months, and has only just started walking unassisted just less than a month ago. At around 10 months we started to get 'dadada' and 'bababa' and one or two 'daddies' but since then she does nothing but inconsistent babbling and shrieking or similar high pitched noises.

She also does not point, wave or clap. The only obvious gesture we can pick up on is her putting her hands out to say she wants to be picked up. She will sometimes give us eye contact, and seems to comprehend when she is being told not to do something (ie seems to hear 'no' and associated tone of voice) and also when she is being praised (she laughs and smiles at this).

She cannot replicate any animal noises, if I ask her if she would like water/milk she doesn't know what I mean until she sees the full cup right in front of her and she doesn't offend respond to her name.

Friends and strangers have commented when she doesn't respond to them, and even way before I thought there could be an issue one particular friend constantly went on about the fact that she wasn't trying to talk yet since before she turned one.

We sing to her, read to her and play with her every day, as well as describe what we do and overemphasise our hand gestures to try and encourage her to copy. I work part time so am with her a lot of the time, and my parents watch her when I'm at work and they are very hands on in interacting with her and trying to help her develop her communication.

I have taken her to a private paediatrician who said he suggested a hearing test with the NHS but that it was hard to tell at her age if there were any communication delays/autism. I don't think there is a problem with her hearing as she can hear a food packet from another room and will turn to watch the tv if she hears a theme tune from Paw Patrol etc.

Has anyone had a similar experience where their children have developed successfully in terms of speech and language or can anyone tell me what I should do? I'm feeling very low at the moment as I don't know what to do to help her and don't want to be fobbed off when we could be getting her help now. Thanks in advance.

[whatamess0815]

hearing test is probably a good idea. other than that you should be seen by a developmental paediatrician.

not speaking at 17 month is one thing but the lack of communication would worry me. I would leave the HV aside and run this via GP. you may have to be very persistent.

do the M-chat online and if it flags up anything, print it out and take it along to the GP. be a pain. good luck.

[Artandco]

It's worth looking at for reassurance

However, neither of mine spoke at all until after 2 years. They were fluent in two language by 3rd birthday. They just seemed to spend first 2 yet as watching and absorbing rather Than actually using

[whatamess0815]

art, having a child that does not talk but develops otherwise fine is very different from a child that does not communicate and has significant difficulties understanding language.

[NickyEds]

Definitely get her checked out by the gp. My ds is 2.4 and has very few words (we've seen the speech and language therapist)but his understanding is good, so at 17 months would go get his coat if asked, go to the sink if I asked if he wanted a drink, the fridge if he wanted a snack etc. Have a look at the M chat test too. It is worth getting a hearing check done (ds is having one in a couple of weeks) even if you think she can hear ok- glue ear can effect certain frequencies so a child can hear but not well enough to learn to speak.

[Artandco]

What - op says her child doesn't talk, or point etc. Neither mine have ever pointed or did hand gestures. So like op child surely?

[whatamess0815]

OP made it clear child doesn't understand much either. that is not a typical development. some children just catch up but some will need lots of extra help. no one here is able to tell into a which group OPs child falls. hence it is important to be seen by the right people.

my child did not talk, point etc at 17.5 months. she is now 7, has a dx of autism and severe learning diffs. ignoring it until 3 or later just because some other children caught up would not have done her any favours.

[NickyEds]

I agree whatamess I've had a bit of stick for contacting hv, gp and salt quite early, lots of "he's just a boy, he'll catch up" and "my ds didn't talk until x,y,z". The way I see it, if he catches up , great if not then the help is in place. We're on the fucking endless waiting list for SALT already, we can always cancel an appointment if it turns out to be unnecessary.

[bialystockandbloom]

OP I think I'd ask for referral to developmental paed too - it may be that she is delayed rather than a pervasive difficulty, but it'll certainly do no harm to get in the system, as it's often a wait to see someone. By the time you are, you may be more comfortable about her development anyway, but either way nothing to lose.

Non-verbal communication is much more important and significant at this age, regardless of when a child starts talking - tons of children don't talk till 2/3+ but development in all other ways is fine. Expressive language isn't so important on its own. The importance of things like pointing (certainly in respect of autism) is that it might indicate a lack of joint attention, which is a key impairment and can be (not always) an early symptom of autism.

Good on you for being on the ball about those subtle things. She is very very young so plenty of time to catch up, but you have nothing to lose by getting the ball rolling now.

[bialystockandbloom]

Btw I also agree with hearing test too.

Also, is there a SALT drop-in near you?

[NovMumOne]

Thanks everyone for your input. I did the M-CHAT first test with my husband last night and going by that she would fall into high risk, though this morning the little monkey is making us question some of our responses!

I think the only thing we can do is persist with health professionals to get things moving 'just in case'. The way I see it is if there was nothing to be concerned about having a little bit of extra help won't hurt her either, and if there is something then hopefully we have caught it in time to help her with any difficulties from an early enough age.

Would a SALT drop in be with a Children's Centre do you think? I haven't heard about one but will look into it.

[NickyEds]

Our SALT drop in is at the health centre. You can find out by contacting either the community health team or your hv.

[bialystockandbloom]

I think you're absolutely right, it would be brilliant for her to have extra help and intervention whether she 'needs' it or not. Good for you

[NovMumOne]

I spent most of this morning trying to find out about SALT drop ins, only to be told you have to be referred to a drop in - surely that defeats the purpose of 'dropping in'!

However I have got her enrolled on a programme at our local Children's Centre which is to encourage children under two to use their voices. Apparently the workers there observe the children's behaviour partially one on one and keep notes of what they pick up on or need help with. I think this might help when we finally do get to see someone.

[QuiteLikely5]

Op

In your shoes what I would do today is look for a private speech & language therapist in your area to get an apt ASAP.

I did this with one of my dc because I could not stand the wait.

Yes it was expensive for that first assessment but I was very reassured by what they told me.

Obviously they cannot diagnose things like a paediatric consultant can but they do work with children who have delays etc and they might be able to tell you if all is well.

With me they said yes a moderate speech & language delay but their gut instinct was nothing else wrong.

There was two of them - a language expert and a speech expert, well I say expert but you get the gist!

[NovMumOne]

I have booked to see a private SALT now, in the phone consultation she did stress that she is still very young and these may not be signs of anything more serious, but willing to see us to help us with strategies to encourage her to talk.

Thank you everyone for your advice, I think I just needed to know that I wasn't completely overreacting and others thought seeking help was a good idea too!

[Worriedfistimemum]

@NovMumOne How is your DD doing now?. Would be great if you can provide an update as I am in a similar situation.

[NovMumOne]

Hiya - wow what a read my comment is again now we are 5 years on! So I chased the NHS health professionals and at 26 months she was diagnosed as autistic with Global Developmental Delay. I cried, mostly with relief that someone had finally listened, taken me seriously and seen what I had seen. My DD is now 7, attends a specialist school and has come on leaps and bounds from what I describe in my OG post.

Her communication is still very delayed, she is probably more in line with a 2 year old in her speech, but crucially she moved from babble to PECS to verbally talking and can construct short sentences though some of the words may be missing. For example today I took her into a shop and she said ‘I’m that tinsel my room please!’ - meaning I want that tinsel for my room, please?’ So she’s getting the key words out. Also it’s probably fair to say that most of the time she is saying things clearly but sometimes only those closest to her recognise what word she is saying. She had the hearing test and that was all ok, it’s more a processing issue I think.

She effectively replicates most animal noises, can point and clap and can maintain eye contact - perhaps is even a little too intense with it sometimes. She can crawl/walk/run/jump with two feet etc but her motor skills are definitely not matched to her peers, and fine motor skills are even more delayed but she does try and give things a go.

Her behaviour can be challenging, I think a massive part of that is down to her delayed communication and understanding, but she is also very loving and asks for cuddles and kisses. She can be shy of new people but adores close family members and has classmates that I think we can safely class as friends. She also is very sensitive to loud noises, has some food aversions though loves most food and doesn’t like some textures.

We had genetic testing and she had no signs of any of the main genetic disorders they test for, but that doesn’t mean to say there wasn’t some sort of genetic blip. It doesn’t appear that it was something passed on by us, just ‘de novo’ as they call it, ie just one of those things that happens sometimes.

She learns best through play and activities and recognises most phase 2 phonics, and is starting to try and blend sounds. Numbers not so confident in but she is interested. She’s never going to be majorly academic I don’t think but she has completely surpassed what I dared imagine she could achieve back when I wrote the post.

My advice to you if you are concerned is STAND YOUR GROUND WITH THE HEALTH PROFESSIONALS! Do not let them fob you off, and early intervention is key. If you have the finances to seek private speech therapy/occupational therapy/whatever it is you think your child might require, do it. It’s better to do too much and if not be needed than follow the ‘sit back and wait’ approach the Drs often try to push on you. Verbally label everything for your child, keep sentences short and simple and use objects of reference - like where I said about having milk and water - show them both so they can see what you are talking about to make a choice. If you’d like to ask anything else I haven’t covered please don’t be afraid to ask!

[Worriedfistimemum]

@NovMumOne thank you very much for the detailed reply. I have posted about my DS but no one replied.. below is where he is at now:


1- DS is a social and happy kid with medium-good interest in other children.
2- He can point to what he wants, wave bye bye (his waving is not perfect as he uses his fingers to wave not whole hand). He can give a Hi-5 and says 10-15 words so far. He can name 5-6 animals and mimic a lot of sounds, in addition, he can name 2-3 body parts (not accurate as he might point to his head when we say eyes).
3- He started crawling at 12.5 months and just now (17 months) he started to take his first unstable steps.
4- He gets angry and bored often (30% of the time).
5- sleeps through the night but wakes up 3-6 times a night even if he is not sick.
6- He flaps his hands a lot and some times make some unusual finger and hand postures when stressed or engaged in drinking milk. Sometimes he even stands on his tip toes! THIS IS A BIG CONCERN for me.
7- He makes a lot of noises and repeat sounds (50% of the time).
8- he enjoys peek a boo and hide and seek games. he plays with some toys functionally but also likes to only throw some other toys!
9- responds to his name 50% of the time.

The GP thinks he is fine and with time he would catch up on delayed milestones !

[NovMumOne]

Firstly some fantastic signs here - I know people say don’t compare but look where my daughter was at 17.5 months and your DS is half a month behind that.

Keep a record of what he is achieving so far somewhere, dated and as much detail as you have time to write, and keep on top of it so you have evidence to show a health professional if required (they always ask and you could even photocopy and give them a copy to read outside of the appointment time if you’ve got loads to say). You are entitled to a second opinion - ask to see another GP at your practice, or speak to a health visitor or nursery nurse. Does he attend a nursery? As they can also put through referrals through on your behalf if they feel it is necessary.

Anger and boredom could definitely come from lack of understanding at this age/stage - they don’t call the next age bracket the terrible twos for nothing haha! It’s the start of wanting to test boundaries, frustration at what they want and not getting it/not being able to communicate effectively yet.

The hand flapping could well be stimming, which is a self regulating movement or sound that autistic people make when they are over stimulated to help regulate themselves. Keep track of what is happening around him when he is doing this - is he just excited or is there bright lights, loud noises, while eating etc. My DD flaps a little but not as much as I would think would be typical of an autistic person, her think is a very wide mouthed shaky excited facial expression which she might do at something that you or I wouldn’t warrant such an excited reaction. Often when concentrating hard too. Tip toes again could be something as that can be a sensory seeking movement - again my DD doesn’t do this a huge amount but does in small doses. And actually my friend’s neurotypical DD has tip toe walked as long as we can remember and now has had to have physio and casts to treat short muscles in her feet from the tip toe walking. So even if not a sign of autism definitely needs to be monitored to catch it early and save him that kind of treatment later on if possible.

All this said, I think he might still be within typical developmental ranges currently, so as hard as it seems try to stay calm and continue to do what you can to help him progress through play and practicing the skills he has already mastered. Make some calls to keep him on the GP/nursery nurse/HVs radar. I think the checks are a lot later now than they were for my little girl, hers were 8 months then 2 years, am I right in thinking they are after 2 years now? In my opinion that’s too late to be optimum helpful to you and your son and things need to get rolling before then to give him as much support as possible as early as possible. Share your thoughts with others rather than leaving it to bottle up and consume you, have a cry if you need to let stress out and know that even if he is behind in anyway he’s showing such good signs of making progress already. Covid times makes socialising more difficult than it should be but if you can get booked on to toddler groups/meet up with friends with kids etc definitely do. I know it hurts sometimes to have the comparisons but it’s so vital to his development to go to them, plus you might meet people who can point you in the direction of other places to support him and you in his development. Hope this is helpful and though our kids are different ages hope it shows you aren’t alone and things can and do get better!

[Worriedfistimemum]

@NovMumOne Thank you big time again for taking the time to write this very useful reply.. it is really making me feel better when i talk to others about my concerns... DS started nursery a month ago .. and I try to engage him with toddler groups ( it was really hard before he walked).. I feel he is making progress in all fronts except receptive language and the hand flapping thing!

Seeing how hard and concerning parenthood is I decided this would be my first and last child ... I can't go through such feelings once more.

[NovMumOne]

I think it’s useful not only for you and him but also other children and their parents that we still get ourselves out there and join in so that they have experience of different people and know how to talk to and play with people who are a bit behind constructively and kindly. I work in a mainstream school and I think this is one of the biggest failures, getting the kids to learn about mental/physical differences and how to support others.

I know what you mean - DD is my only one although I have often wished I had another earlier so she had someone who understands her more and will be around when we aren’t. But they could have the same struggles she has, or maybe the wouldn’t but it would be a lot of pressure to put on them to expect them to always be around for her. It’s a difficult one! I don’t think age gaps matter so I don’t think it has to be a closed firm decision, but fully understand your thinking it’s stressful!