we have gone all wrong with sleep and don't know how to fix it!

[ppandj]

DS is 5mo and needs to be rocked to sleep or will fall asleep in pushchair or car, he also sometimes falls asleep while nursing though not very often. He has a dummy and sometimes likes a muslin cloth up near his face to sleep. Currently he sleeps on me for most naps as if I try to out him down he doesn't sleep for very long at all. This is our current routine;
8.30am naps for about 45 mins
10.30-11am naps for about 60 mins
2pm naps for 1 and half hours
4pm naps for 45 mins
(Feeds on waking after these naps)
5.15-5.45pm bath time then dim lights, no more playing, cuddle and lullaby but must be rocked back to sleep (however seems to not sleep deeply until...)
6pm sleep on me/DP
8pm wakes for feed then falls back to sleep on me
9.45pm we all go to bed, I put DS in his bedside crib where he often sleeps til 12-2am depending on feed length
2am-5am light sleep, usually in our bed at this point as he settles better next to me
5am awake and babbling but not hungry, so DP and I don't interact
6am he will feed
6.30-7am sleeps after feed

I know there is sooo much of this situation that needs to change because DS is unable to self-soothe and I'm sure he isn't getting enough sleep. I don't know where to begin tackling this though, both I and DP are really stressed about it. I have tried to do the whole attachment parenting thing but worried I've gone too far and created big problems. How can I make it right?

[Crazylou]

My little boy is just over 5 months am having a similar situation at the moment.

7.30-8.00am wakes has milk

About 2 hrs later has a morning nap 9.30-10.00am as soon as I notice him rubbing his eyes I lay him down and gently rock him then he falls asleep i do this for every nap he now knows when hes going for a nap as i say to him my baby boy going for a nap lol

Play time after nap

12pm has a feed
From around 1pm-2pm he goes for a long afternoon nap
4pm feed
Sometimes has a half hour nap
6pm-7pm quiet relaxing playtime
Bath at 7pm then read books
Feed around 7.30-8pm gets really tired falls asleep while feeding.
Put to bed and sleeps for 4 hours then occasionally starts to stir during the night i try not to pick him up unless he is really unsettled we just moved him into his cot as for the last month he was waking every two hours he is more settled in cot now.

I've read that babies need at least 14 hours sleep within a 24 hour period, at have at least 2-3 naps a day, morning, lunch, mid afternoon.

[muttleydosomething]

What makes you think he's not getting enough sleep? If he were really exhausted surely he'd be sleeping for long periods rather than waking. So it seems to me that either he's waking because he's hungry or because he doesn't need the same amount of sleep as some other babies you may have met. At 5 months it's textbook normal for babies to wake in the night, have a feed and go back to sleep. They're growing a prodigious rate at this stage. And some babies just need loads of sleep whereas others are more alert all the time.

We sort-of did attachment parenting-lite, for context. I don't think mine slept through the night without a feed till he was about 11 months or longer (same for non-attachment parenting friends I spoke to with theirs) but I didn't fret about it because we were co sleeping and he was breastfeeding, so there was virtually no disruption to my own sleep. From my recollection of this some 4 years ago, you're doing better than we did as my DS was still waking to feed about two or three times per night at 5ms.

Yes, your DS keeps waking, but it's not the attachment parenting that is waking him up. This won't go on forever, and weaning is just around the corner, so that will have an effect on the frequency with which he needs milk.

Re self-settling, I hate to be a bore, but the evidence that stopped me from sleep training was that that showed that the reasons sleep-trained babies make no noise when put down has nothing to do with being calm, as their heart rates show they are actually extremely stressed. But, yes, they do learn how to sleep without you earlier. In the general context, is delaying this useful talent a big problem? Sleep training has always seemed to me quite unnecessary for the child but a big boon for a parent who has to go to work, look after the child's siblings, wants free time in the evenings, etc., and I'm sure that's why it evolved, but there is nothing to show it makes for a happier more well-balanced better-behaved child. My DS is really confident, very independent and very happy, btw, and people often comment on it. I say this not to show off but to reassure you that you have not been ruining your child's life by any means.

I think with parenting you should do what you feel is the right thing to do, and ignore other people if you have a gut feeling. If you feel happier being cuddlier parents, stick with it or you'll just make yourselves miserable. If you think there's a need to get your own lives back, however, there are loads of books out there to help you sleep train nicely, but most I looked at suggest you don't start till he's 6ms as right now he still needs a lot of reassurance and your skin-to-skin contact.

[43percentburnt]

W e did attachment parenting with ds and dd. I like to view everything as milestones. They walk when they are ready, they talk when ready and they sleep alone when ready. Ds still woke for milk several times a night at 18 months. At 20 months it slowed down and he began to sleep through.

Ds co slept until 2. He is now 2.1 and when he wakes in the night he cries for a few seconds then turns his Ewan sheep on. He breastfed until 2 weeks ago and has now stopped of his own accord. Funnily he was totally potty trained (during the day) before he slept alone and self soothed! They do stuff when they are ready.

Enjoy the snuggles and don't listen to all those people who mention 'rods for your own back'.

[BreeVDKamp]

To add a different PoV, we put 4mo DS in his own room at the weekend and (I know it's early days) it seems to have helped his sleep a lot. We were co-sleeping, which was great while it lasted, but DS got more and more restless and flaily and kicky so I think he was telling us he needed his own space. He is a light sleeper too, so if one of us rolled over or whatever he would wake up. Also now we're using formula so had to get up to make bottles anyway.
He is still up a few times in the night, probably 12, 3 and got up dofor the day at 5:30 this morning, but can't complain and his naps have improved massively too and now seem to be on a schedule, for now (I didn't implement this). This time last week he had to be held, shushed, patted AND rocked to sleep, but now we generally just pat him I his cot and he cuddles his bear and cries a bit as he tries to settle himself.
Fully aware this won't last forever and could be better, but just thought I'd share in case your baby might want his own space.

[BertieBotts]

I think it's normal for a 5mo not to self soothe. You're not doing anything wrong! :) His sleep sounds great to me. I'd keep doing what you are doing. He won't need to be rocked forever.

[WorldsBiggestGrotbag]

He sleeps way more than my 12 week old! She has 4 naps of 30-40 mins a day then sleeps 8-6 with 3-4 feeds.
Like adults, some babies need more sleep and some need less. If he's happy in his awake time (mine is) then I'm sure he's getting enough sleep.

[WorldsBiggestGrotbag]

Oh and DD1 didn't self soothe until 15 months!

[BarbarianMum]

I also think it is normal for a 5 month old not to self soothe but it is a good age to start teaching this -if you want to. Personally, if we'd waited for our children to naturally self soothe or later sleep through, I'd have had a breakdown through exhaustion. However, I can't see much inherently 'wrong' in what you are describing, so if you are happy and your ds is happy I wouldn't worry.

[ppandj]

Thank you for all your replies. On reading my OP back it comes across rather melodramatic, but I was quite stressed at the time of posting as DP was fretting about the sleeping arrangements and all that. I feel much better having read this is not uncommon and also feel a bit more secure in waiting a while regarding the self-settling. Thank you again!

[BertieBotts]

:) Glad you are feeling better.

[Sparrowlegs248]

DS is 2 months. I'll be thrilled igmf he is sleeping as much as yours at 5months. tired