Nine year old DS driving me crazy

[aliceandkatie]

...and I mean crazy. I just grabbed her arm in fury and now feeling like worst mum in world ever, she's in her room sobbing etc etc.
Everything is a battle. She goes up on everything and jams her thumb in her mouth defiantly, curling up into a ball under her bed / stropping off / running off (often when away from home, out on a walk etc. We have had a few incidents where she's been lost for half an hour in a public place). As long as she has complete freedom to do what she likes, she is charming, kind and competent. But the minute anything (and I mean anything) is asked of her that she doesn't want to comply with, she throws an alrighty strop and refuses to cooperate. I try to keep emotion out of it but I feel I am failing.
She told me that she wanted to learn how to do box stitch bracelets, so I bought the correct threads, taught myself via YouTube, made her a ring and then tried to teach her this morning. I warned her it might be fiddly at first. I sat with her and tried to show her. She quickly got completely frustrated despite my attempts to help her as much as possible. She started kicking at the pencil box that I had just tidied up with her foot. She then got angry with me and curled up / thumb in mouth / pushed me away.

I know that I am the problem - that I should be able to resist the blows and laugh it off, but her behaviour makes me SO worried (for her) and sad / upset. She has endless treats, a loving family, a nice room with toys to play with etc. I don't think it's an attention problem as I do try to read to her / bounce her on trampoline / watch movies with her etc.
She has some confidence issues and also mild dyspraxia but is well coordinated in general and good at sports. She is hyper mobile and has a slightly weak grip and low ish muscle tone which is also why I thought the bracelets might be a good idea.
Any advice much welcomed. She is the eldest of my three children. I just feel completely miserable and want to cry / also concerned for her that she has such a negative outlook and refuses to be 'helped' in any way. I've also tried things like organising her room / labelling everything to make it easier for her to be tidy but it's almost as though she enjoys hurting me by destroying all of this and trashing her room time after time after time. I stick up for her when her Dad gets angry and threatens to confiscate her toys etc but I am really now at a loose end. Her attitude is making me depressed (I know it shouldn't) and anxious. She still wets her bed every single night (she has never been dry) and sucks her thumb. We have seen a child psychiatrist who says she isn't depressed but sensitive and has recommended family therapy which I am trying to get set up. But really I feel hopeless about this situation and don't think therapy IS necessarily the answer (I could be wrong).
I think she has low self esteem coupled with a lack of determination which means that she doesn't help herself to achieve little goals that would then build her confidence.
Sorry for long post. Thanks in advance for any advice.

[JiltedJohnsJulie]

Poor you and poor DD. I'm not sure what to suggest but you must see your GP and talk about feeling depressed and anxious.

What is the delay in the family therapy? I know you're not keen but surely some help is better than none? :)

Two things do stand out from your post, firstly "she gets constant treats". Why?

The other thing is that you undermine your partner. Please don't do this, although it can be hard I know. If she misbehaves and your partner wants to put in sanctions they I don't think you are doing anybody any favours by defending her.

[WombOfOnesOwn]

You seem to be taking all of this very personally. You think your daughter's lack of organizational ability and so on is being done to punish you.

To me, this sounds like you may be the one with the psychological issue. Your kid is being...a kid. It's not personal. Your kid isn't you. Your kid's life isn't all about you, even though a few years ago it probably was. Your kid probably feels how entangled your psychology is in hers, and is resisting it.

I would suggest cognitive behavioral therapy so you can learn to undo some of the negative thinking habits you've inculcated in yourself (things like "when someone else does something I don't like, they're doing it BECAUSE I don't like it, to test me/make me sad/upset." That's not a healthy or normal thought, sorry to say, and it's something CBT can help a lot with.

[insanityscatching]

The lack of organisational skills is the dyspraxia. It's very difficult when they are resistant toyou helping them. Have you had your dd assessed for ASD? It sounds to me like the curling up and thumb sucking is her shutting down wen she becomes overwhelmed. I'd also read up on PDA (pathological demand avoidance) as her resistance to demands sounds extreme to me. A referral to the Elizabeth Newson Centre would be a good idea here

[LizzieLou3]

I think family therapy is definitely the answer. I have a 9 year old and your post reads very oddly to me from a parenting perspective. My dd would watch her own You Tube videos to learn new crafts, bounce herself on a trampoline and only have a tidy bedroom sometimes. It wouldn't occur to me to check her muscle tone? What even us that? You sound very controlling whilst your intention is obviously to help. I think you might be transferring your anxiety onto her and stifling her independence. Stopping your partner from implementing reasonable sanctions for bad behaviour is a recipe for disaster obviously and will make her feel less safe. I do find it odd that you mention the bed wetting immediately after her 'attitude' I was still bed wetting at that age. She has absolutely no control over it.

[antimatter]

I stick up for her when her Dad gets angry and threatens to confiscate her toys etc but I am really now at a loose end

this may be one of the reasons she isn't cooperating - IMHO it is very important for both parents to have the same attitude towards rewards and punishment

if you and your DP would agree on what the rules are she will have constant reference point

she is pushing her boundaries and you are (I think) enabling her to do it

organising her room / labelling this will only work for someone who uses the same strategies as you in regards to work and organisation of space around

perhaps she has too much stuff/toys in her room or storage is inefficient or hard to reach shelves?

[JiltedJohnsJulie]

Are you coming back OP?

[weebarra]

Lizzie Lou - I also have a dyspraxic child, my 7 year old DS. It really pissed me off when you wrote "poor muscle tone, what even is that?". DS has hypermobility too and it means that, as far as the physio and OT have explained, it's much harder for him to do fine motor tasks and it makes him much tireder.
Your daughter may happily have looked up you tube videos to learn how to make bracelets, but that is something my son would find difficult too. I'm not saying the OP is a perfect parent but she's trying to make the world as accessible as possible for her child and shouldn't be flamed for that.

[LizzieLou3]

Apologies Weebara and OP I didn't mean any offence.

[aliceandkatie]

Firstly - thanks all of you so much for your responses and I am really really sorry to only have just seen them. I don't come on here very often and I've been extremely busy with new kittens (!), dashing around after three kids, the usual...so have only just checked post and to my total delight seen these responses. Wow. So nice not to feel alone and also to feel I can be so honest.
I really appreciate the above esp the suggestions relating to CBT and acceleration of family therapy - and defiant behaviour tendencies. Also YES I have a lot of negative self beliefs, yes I undermine my husband (albeit behind his back), yea she has too much stuff in her room and yes it was mad of me to choose an activity such as complex stitching when I did. I should have waited until later in the day perhaps the evening when we were all relaxed and could have a giggle about it / do it on the sofa in front of TV / whatever. I will post more later today when I have access to a laptop rather than my mobile. It's that point in the summer holidays when I have left my laptop lead in Scotland where we went on holiday and phone screen smashed after DS took cover off to stick into a speaker dock and then dropped it - and there's no time to fix anything! But will post more later. Thanks again.

[icklekid]

What is she like in school? Do teachers have any concerns especially socially? Often children thrive with boundaries (once they have pushed to check them!) You and your dh need an honest conversation to agree a united way forward

[aliceandkatie]

Forgot to add that I am def not in brilliant headspace as youngest DD was randomly diagnosed out of the blue (she started to have frequent infections and wasn't gaining weight age 3.5) with congenital heart disease in May and had to have major surgery in June. She also has sleep apnea, hypotonia and various other minor problems so it's been a bit of a stressful few months which I have no doubt has impacted on my mood and psychological state. The point about psychological state entanglement was also very valid so thank you.

[JiltedJohnsJulie]

alice sounds like you are having a really tough year. Hope things get better soon

[aliceandkatie]

Thanks Jilted. That's very kind. I do feel totally overwhelmed much of the time and react by trying toncontrol everything, which is obviously part of the problem. My DH also puts a lot of pressure on me in terms of the children. He has very high expectations. I think this has a knock on effect and is preventing me from enjoying motherhood as I get so anxious. He also has very strong views about most things although we have talked a lot about this and he has acknowledged that much of this stems from fact his Dad was an alcoholic, he's under a lot of pressure at work etc. This is why it's tricky to always be consistent with him. For example, he firmly believes that none of them should have screens before 6pm, even in holidays. Ostensibly I agree with him, but in reality I find it impossible to limit screen time so much in holidays with tree children. Added to which my eldest has a big chunk of holiday homework we need to wade through. Sometimes I feel that the iPad is the only way to guarantee peace, although it's not ideal I know.

Things got better last week when I relaxed. One day we did nothing - all just sat around at home reading stories to the kids, having takeaway, (noodles all over sofa and I resisted urge to completely freak out and dash for the dustpan and brush), watching movies etc. It was great and I felt much happier about things.

I am going to go to the GP as I think my anxiety has been exacerbated by DD's heart condition and her having to have surgery. Also there were concerns about s'thing called mosaic Down Syndrome which was frightening too although these turned out to be unfounded, she does have a few of the 'soft markers' but the karyotype came back normal. We were at Great Ormond Street for a week in total and it was pretty stressful even though all went well and my youngest couldn't be happier now and is doing brilliantly.
Sorry if my post read oddly Lizzie Lou, I was stressed out and yes angry. But the hypotonia is not me over diagnosing and frankly I found your tone rude and very judgmental. I thought this was meant to be a support forum and I would never jump on someone like that. My daughter's low muscle tone is part of her dyspraxia / SPD diagnosis (or linked) and manifests as sitting in W position, getting v tired v easily and also she is hyper mobile so twists her ankles a lot. WeeBarra thanks for the support on that one. Lizzie Lou I do not for a second feel cross with her 'attitude' or link it to bed wetting, that's why I posted here, because I know it's prob all my fault / we've got ourselves in a muddle and I just want to do what's best for her, me and the family.

[aliceandkatie]

Sorry - I didn't mean that the bed wetting was my fault - or anyone's - really - TBH it actually doesn't bother me and although we have medication here and have tried alarms etc, we have decided to just let it go and allow her to grow out of it naturally in her own time...

[LizzieLou3]

I know I've caused offence and I'm really sorry. I had a bad reaction to your OP which is really unusual for me. As is always the way in these situations you gave us a snap shot of life when feeling angry and I had no idea what else you were going through. I would normally tread much more carefully and put things in a supportive way but weirdly your post made me feel angry on your daughter's behalf. I wanted to kick the pencil box too. I'm not a very tidy person and don't like it when people try to get me to do things their way and with the bed wetting comment which I totally misread I was putting myself far too much in your daughter's position and behaved like a child myself!

[LizzieLou3]

And Weebara I can see how my post made it look like I was comparing children and making out like we were somehow 'the Normals!'. My 9 yr old is awaiting an autism assessment which ironically includes possible dispraxia! She lacks co-ordination and is terrible at sports. She also struggles with practical stuff like getting dressed or ready for bed. I wasn't trying to say that she is more capable than anybody else's child. She certainly has never responded to anyone organising her and I consider myself lucky if she shoves her toys and stuff all together in one box rather than leaving them all over the floor. Maybe we're too laid back but if she wants to learn stuff I leave her to it and if she doesn't tidy then her room's a mess except when once in a blue moon I tidy it. And given that she's rubbish at sports we leave that side of life to other people which is fine by me as I'm rubbish at sports! Of course sometimes she drives me mad so one day I'll probably come on here and say why and hope no-one has as insensitive reaction as I had to Alice!

[SaintSamantha42]

stay strong it all will soon pass, my DD is now 15 and I'm surprised I've let her live this long. in a couple of years she'll lock herself in her room and she will barely trouble you.

[ceyes03]

OP, please look into impaired proprioception in children. If she's hypermobile she likely has impaired proprioception too. It could account for a lot of her more physical behaviours - it may be pure frustration, but stuff like the kicking and whatnot to me indicates she's craving proprioceptive feedback.

school.familyeducation.com/sensory-integration/growth-and-development/40188.html

Likely the bracelet thing was too complex and fiddly for her hence the frustration.