Keep losing my temper with 4 year old

[Rasell]

My eldest boy is 4.5. He's a lovely boy, caring, affectionate, funny... I love him to bits. But he keeps being naughty & it's getting worse. Ever day he blows spitty raspberries right at you, he refuses to do lots of the things we request. He argues & tells me off, basically repeating what I say to him. He won't take no for an answer and goes on and on demanding things. He screams and shouts all of the time. In any given hour of the day we'll go from playing, laughing & singing together to screaming blue murder. I can't help but be outraged that he won't listen to us. I'm horrified by the way I speak to him & shout at him. I've said some horrible things and am terrified I'll make him have low self-esteem or hate me. I love him with all my heart but just have no patience left to calmy ask him to stop doing the same things on a daily basis. How do you manage your kid's bad behaviour without losing it? Any advice greatly appreciated. Thank you x

[holeinmyheart]

Gosh my blood ran cold for both of you reading your post. You are being abusive to this little boy.
First of all he is far too young to be plotting against you as in ' how can I make my Mummy miserable today?
He needs to be treated with respect. Isn't it how you would like to be treated By respect I mean listened to, really listened to with patience.

Something is making him behave so badly. He is too young to articulate how he feels. He can't express his emotion in words so does it with raw emotion.

All four year old are trying to push the boundaries and scream if they don't get their own way but because YOU are the adult, you DONT SCREAM back.

If you are so angry with him, he will know. If you are impatient and pull at him and shout, he is not an adult and will think you don't like him.
This realisation will NOT make him behave better , it will make him behave worse as it will distress him.
Please have patience. Count ten and every time you behave well towards him you will be rewarded when he is an adult , as you will have provided him with a secure and happy childhood.
How would you react if you were relying on someone for your emotional development and they were nasty to you. He is a baby, he is looking to you for security and comfort. You are rejecting him, it is not enough to say you love him, he needs to feel it. I am afraid words are cheap.
You have one go at bringing him up and it is NOW.
You must get help or summon up the energy from somewhere to change your attitude towards him.
Just check you are not suffering from depression as well.
At least you know what you are doing is not right which is a start.

[PyjamasLlamas]

Wtf Hole? 'Abusive'. Er no...that's a word that gets thrown about a lot and nowhere in OP does it suggest abuse only a mum who loves her son and is getting frustrated with his behaviour. Like 99% of parents. And to then casually throw in 'hey check you're not depressed by the way!'

[PyjamasLlamas]

OP I have found the following helps:

Walking away into another room and closing the door before you shout and scream

Choosing battles. Let him wear odd socks/eat half a meal/get cold because he refuses to wear a coat etc.

Let him have choices. Brush teeth now or after a book for example.

Praise praise praise

[hartmel]

@holeinmyheart.. The name you choose for this site fits you perfectly.. The way you wrote that comment makes me think that you do not have any kids.. Or if you do then I don't know what you give your kids.. I have two kids and they are smart very very smart.. I always hate it when people say to me "they are only ... Old. They don't know yet what they are doing" that is bullshit.. They know exactly what they are doing.. Especially at age 4...
Op wanted suggestions.
All I can say, OP you are not alone.. I try to praise my son a lot. (We have a hard time with him too. And he is only 2) and when He refuses his meal we leave him be and shortly after he comes and asks for the meal..

Otherwise I don't have any suggestions. I hope that someone comes along and has a great tip..

And please do ignore holeinmyheart comment about that you might suffer from depression.. If your kids misbehaves and is not listening to you does not automatically mean that you as a mother suffer..

[DeathMetalMum]

I don't think you are bein abusive either just a very stressed out parent. I have a 4 year old who is very hard work, there is a thread somwhere about how difficult 3/4 year olds are.

I agree with what pyjamas has said. Be firm and give him choices. Leave the room if you need to. Dd will often scream if she doesn't get her own way or if I have said no, I ignore as much as possible explaning the reason. I also will leave the room if I feel myself getting agitated with her behaviour. Dp and dd seem to clash a lot more he finds it harder to drop some of the 'littke things' and I do think sometimes he expects a little too much from her.

Do you get a break from ds? Does he go to nursery or pre-school? How is his behaviour there? I'd maybe ask pre-school for some advice also.

[Gdydgkyk]

You need to completely rethink your parenting style as what you are doing right now results in his dramatically poor behaviour. Your negative behaviour gets him loads of attention for the wrong reasons.

Shouting and screaming and saying awful things to a child is an awful way to parent as I'm sure you know.

Please can you tell me more about him as a person. Is he particularly sensitive? If so, how? Time out/naughty step/ignoring doesn't suit all children and even then I'm not sure it's the best thing to do?

[Gdydgkyk]

Can you run us through what happens/what's said step by step.

[Gdydgkyk]

Also buy and read lots of parenting books so you can reflect and work out a way forward.

[Gdydgkyk]

Look at amazon reviews

[MsRaspberryJam]

God almighty, if you are abusive so am I. My son is exactly the same age and drives me crackers sometimes. He does the exact same thing with the raspberries, the not listening, and repeating himself.

I try to talk calmly and patiently where I can to him, but frankly, my patience only goes so far and I have yelled and hissed at him to stop doing X or to give me a break.

I've seen genuine abusive behaviour and losing your cool with a naughty four year old occasionally isn't it.

[caravanista13]

I'm afraid Hole is right. Of course the OP isn't being deliberately abusive, but treating children so harshly IS abuse. Have you read
How to Talk So Kids Will Listen Will Talk?

[Rasell]

Than you all for your replies. I wrote this last night very upset after bedtime had gone wrong (again). We're had a lovely bath time, but I had to tell him 3 times to not purposefully throw water out of the bath. Then he ran off naked & jumped on his bed, blowing raspberries in my face as I helped him put his pyjamas on (for speed, not because he can't do it). After that instead of sitting with me & his brother to dry his hair he turned on the bedroom light (curtains were slightly open, for enough light to read stories)and jumped on the bed with his fingers in his ears, shouting loudly. I then told him off, horribly, and sat on brother's bed to read him stories, trying to ignore big brother but he kept shouting so I did too. He ended up being tucked in by me, but with no kiss or cuddles, which felt awful as usually have lots of cuddles & rub his back. So i felt like a monster & later wrote this post. He woke up for water in the night & I said sorry & cuddled him back to sleep...only a few seconds!
He's a very good boy at nursery, he is a good boy in general & does get lots of praise when good, but he has some bad habits that are a real bone of contention and have been for a while, and he won't stop doing them, frequently throughout the day. But now he's so argumentative and has no respect for me I sometimes feel I've lost control & find myself trying to outshout him. I've read lots of articles & other forum posts & feel more positive today. I can of course separate myself & calm down, I won't let myself talk badly to him anymore & we will iron out these behavioural issues together. I don't believe I'm an abusive mum, my boy gets more love & praise in a day than negativity, but I do need to control my temper & I should never have said mean things to him. Thank you all again, bring on the new start! Xx

[Wolfiefan]

I don't believe you are abusive either. Just frustrated. You need a clear strategy.

1. Prevent the behaviour where possible. Eg distract (mine behave worse when tired or hungry. TV and chill out/snack helps!)
   
2. Always have a consequence. Eg throw it and I take it away or shout at me to get my attention and I walk away so you get none.
   
3. Clear rules and consistency. Don't tolerate bad behaviour even when you're shattered
   
4. Remember it's the behaviour that's difficult. Not the child.
   

Good luck!

[holeinmyheart]

I have five children all brought successfully to adulthood.

Anyone who can say a four year old knows exactly what they are doing, needs to print that phrase out and look at in 20 years time and realise that they got it hopelessly wrong. BUT it will be too late then.
You have one go at their childhood. Life is not a rehearsal.

I responded to what the OP said. She said she yelled horrible things !
Personally I don't think it is acceptable to shout at a child.
If there is anyone out there who loves being shouted at, then let me know.

Shouting at anyone is aggressive behaviour and shouting at a child for being a child is even more despicable. Be calm, firm, and fair is and was my mantra. Shouting at a child is counter productive.
Your children are looking to you for how to behave. They copy you( unless they have SN issues)

If you want confident happy children who know that when they are in trouble they can come to you, then you need to treat them with the same respect that you yourself would expect.
Insulting my pen name indicates to me what sort of person you are hartmel Holeinmyheart refers to a terrible tragedy that befel my family.
Sarcasm is a form of bullying isn't it? By all means disagree with my opinion but personal insults reflect on you.

[holeinmyheart]

msraspberryjam if you want quiet respectful children then you have to be quiet and respectful yourself. ( unless they have SN issues)
I am on holiday abroad at the moment and there are families here with children.
One Mother does nothing but nag them all day ' don't do that! don't do this, she whines. Surprise, surprise her kids whine and shout.
They will get even more disrespectful towards her when they are adults.

A four year old cannot know what they are doing as they do the same thing over and over again. For instance if they don't get their own way they yell. If they knew exactly what they were doing they would realise that their bad behaviour was counter productive wouldn't they?
When an adult doesn't get there own way( in the work place for instance ) they don't yell uncontrollably.
To yell at a yelling child, in order to stop it yelling is a laughable response.

Rasell I am so glad that you are feeling more positive today. It is very hard bringing up children because it is so exhausting. I know you love your son and maybe saying you were abusing him was a bit harsh. But you knew yourself that what you were doing was wrong.
Take care of yourself and your lovely children. X

[Shetland]

Rasell I could have written your post.
And while I think abusive is too strong a word I do find myself thinking how I would feel if someone was speaking to me the way I speak to DD sometimes. I'd strongly dislike them so I have to change.
I do recognise that the problem is me and that her behaviour reflects mine but man is it hard most some days :(

The How to talk book is good, as is one called something like dictators and divas.

[PyjamasLlamas]

Hole. I don't understand what the hell you are saying. Of course a 4 yr old knows what they're doing. I don't understand why you are saying they don't
A 4 yr old knows what bedtime is
A 4 yr old knows not to throw things
A 4 yr old knows blowing raspberries can be rude
A 4 yr old knows that jumping on the bed is not on.

Hundred of thousands of late 4 yr olds will be staring school in September. Do you think they don't know what they're doing. I truly find your view bizarre.

Ok shouting is bad. Saying horrible things is bad. But your patronising 'ooh you'll look back in 20yrs...' is rubbish

[Gdydgkyk]

I think with kids you definitely get back what you give out. So being particularly shouty at them, means they will be particularly shouty kids.

[Gdydgkyk]

I agree that 4 year olds do know what they are doing. If the 4 year old had SEN, they might not though depending on the SEN

[PyjamasLlamas]

I do agree with that. When I shout DS shouts. But sometimes when I'm
Calm he still shouts! However overall calmness is always the better option

[MsRaspberryJam]

Oh do chill out, hole. It's more than acceptable to have moments where you aren't champion parent of the world.

[holeinmyheart]

The replier said ( , if you read her reply carefully ) Four year olds know EXACTLY what they are doing. I disagree with EXACTLY. How patronising is it to give me a list of what a four year old can do.?

Well pyjamas which one of us is being patronising?

It is impossible ( I think you might agree) to tell anyone who has not had a child what labour feels like. Also, if you have no children, even if you are a professionally trained person, it is almost impossible to describe to them how your life changes and how stressful it may be.
As your children grow, each stage throws up different challenges.
Inevitably you learn about each stage as you live it. My DCs are all in their late twenties and thirties. I have precious GC, one of four years old.

If I appear patronising then I am sorry, but I do feel that I know something about bringing children up, as well as having qualifications in Educational Phycology.
My aim in replying was to make the OP rethink what she was doing.

I was brought up in an abusive home and I wanted to make sure no one suffered like me and my siblings.
Shouting at a child in a nasty way, is abusive in my book. I experienced a impatient, nasty shouter and believe me we didn't say ' Oh that was good, shout at me again'
We despised and hated and feared my Father.

When the tables are turned and you are old, your DCs will behave towards you, how you behaved towards them.
Imagine being old and frail and you accidently wet your pants and your DD screams at you.

You get back what you put in.

It is love that moves people to help gratuitously, NOT fear.

[plantsitter]

I think the op started this thread BECAUSE she doesn't want to shout... Making her feel worse about it isn't going to help. You are basically shouting at her not to shout .

OP I found www.amazon.co.uk/Playful-Parenting-Lawrence-J-Cohen/dp/0345442865?tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-21 this book v helpful. Once you get out of the habit of reacting angrily EVERYTHING gets easier.

It's not that easy when you're in the middle of it though, I think people forget that.

[AliceAnneB]

Have a Google for hand in hand parenting and "special time". And wrong foot the wee beastie. I often find if we have fallen into a negative pattern me behaving very differently to what they expect lifts the tension and gives everyone a new set of parameters to work within. You are not alone!

[Rasell]

Hi all,
Thanks for all the replies, although I must say I'm sorry to be the cause of any arguments!
I must stress that I've never screamed at him for wetting his pants or anything done by accident but have allowed myself to fall into a terrible habit of him doing something he knows will wind me up & me moaning and shouting but not achieving anything, then taking it personally and sometimes saying things that I regret. This hasn't happened today. I kept calm when he started playing up & it's been a much better day. Hooray!
I'm about to get the books recommended and just wanted to thank you all for your advice & support...it's always good to know you're not alone!
Xxxxxx