My dd can be so horrible to her brother

[hillyhilly]

Our dd is 10 and ds is 7. He can be a bit of a pain, he's a little brother after all. She is possibly pre-pubescent but we are struggling with her behaviour towards him,
She can be so nasty to him, mostly verbally although occasionally physically too, every time he opens his mouth she puts him down she has always had to be better than him, and because she's older she often is but it's horrible to listen to her. Any attempt to put her right is usually perceived as favouritism to him.
She can't do anything for anybody without ensuring that she gets her share back, eg if she lays the cutlery he must do the ketchup or drinks, which is only fair but her manner about it is so vile is makes her truly dislikeable.
She can be lovely, kind, funny and happy but to her friends rather than her family, we are more and more feeling the sharp end of her tongue.
Any advice would be gratefully received, I don't want to keep falling out with her but that's what we keep doing at the moment.

[fourchetteoff]

When I think how awful I was to my brother I just shudder (as was my sister). We essentially bullied the shit out of him. It was only in our late teens we discovered that he was not the irritating toe rag that we thought he was, but a sweet individual with a few irritating faults (which were not as big as our faults).

What would you do if your DD was bullying a child at school? Or was being treated this way? There are studies that show that constant bullying by siblings can damage a child. As it damaged my brother. I'm grateful he forgave us, but wish our parents took all of it more seriously with hindsight. Is there a family counsellor you could speak to? I wish I had practical help, but all I have is personal experience of now (sadly) knowing how small worthless we made our brother feel from what is considered 'normal' sibling bickering and to advise you to try and actively do something about it.
HTH.

[Andro]

Siblings without rivalry might be useful for you to read, the consistency of her negative views could imply a degree of insecurity in how she views her place in the family.

Have you asked her how she feels about her brother and why? A long chat with the freedom to say anything without correction or sanction could be informative, as parents how we perceive our actions can be very different to how our children perceive them. Maybe she feels that you don't take his 'being a bit of a pain' seriously, to her he could be infuriating.

It is also possible that he knows just how to push his sisters buttons to get her to react.

My ds found 10 a tough year, he was reacting quickly and in out of character ways and didn't really understand why at first...it was hormones beginning to kick in and it did get better (I expect it will get worse again with the next hormone surge!).

We found a policy for our dc of 'if you have nothing pleasant to say, say nothing' along side an insistence on basic manners got us through it.

[bluecheque4595]

I have always had a policy of reminding my ds and dd that they are each others brother and sister and they love each other. When ds is nasty to dd I say to him, "imagine you are twenty and you are on your own and you phone dd for a chat and she sees your number on her phone and refuses to answer cos you were so nasty to her when you were this age." This makes him quite disturbed and then I ask them to apologise to each other. They have always grown up in an atmosphere at home where they were actively expected to show respect and civility to one another. They bicker and fight just like any other kids but the know that we as parents have absolutely no time for their showing contempt for one another.

Also when they fight we never took sides, we would punish both and they have learnt to resolve their own conflict without expecting us to get into the nitty gritty of their arguments.

[DeeWe]

Having had this with my little brother I want to just put out my side.
No I wasn't right, but this was how I felt. (I had an older sister too)

If I did something/got something then he had to do it/get it too. Despite that he was 3 years younger than me, and even if I'd been told it wasn't fair if I got it before the age my older sister (also 3 years older) had it. It then became not fair for him to be the only one not to have it.
If he started something I did, I felt I couldn't ever be seen to be better. If I was clearly better then it was natural because I was 3 years older and he would ultimately be as good; if I wasn't then he was an infant prodigy and going to be brilliant.

Everything I did, he had to do (which wasn't true of my big sister) so I felt I constantly had him treading on my toes. Sometimes things I'd fought hard for years were handed him on a plate as it were.
And to make things worse, he wasn't even grateful. He complained; would say things like "well I suppose I must do X if you want me to" and never was satisfied with it.

My mum met any discussions with me with two comments "he's going through a difficult time" which she used whenever he was being awkward from aged about 8 till he was at least 28. Or a wail of "but he's your brother". Which just made me think "yes, and I'm his sister and what do I get out of it?".

I felt he could say or do anything to me and dm was afraid of telling him he couldn't-she would always come to me after an arguement and ask me to apologise/back down simply because I was much easier to deal with. I don't think she ever went to him.

I also felt that he was treated as the same age as me for a lot of things (eg bedtime dsis had later, he had same time as me) but then if jobs needed doing suddenly he was too little to do it. And on the odd occasion he was made to do a job he just picked fights with everyone and stormed off in a huff-and then wasn't made to do them. Nor got any repercussions for not doing it-indeed me and dsis usually ended up doing it anyway.

Now you're probably reading through this thinking "I don't so that. I'm fair." But the thing is that my dp thought they were-or at any rate the times they weren't were justifiable. I know because I've tried to discuss it. I didn't feel that they listened to me when I had complaints, and I was penalised for being the easy one.

I would: Talk to her on her own. Don't go into "this makes me so upset" mode. It really won't help how she feels towards him.
Listen to her. If she says something you really feel is unjustified, then talk it through why she feels that way. I know I over reacted on some things because of history. It may be that something small had built up into something bigger.

Make sure for a time that if you ask her to do something, you ask him in the same breath. If you wait until she says "I'm not setting the table unless he gets drinks out" then she feels that you wouldn't ask him unless she says something -so she will say something, and also feel put upon.

Let her feel older. Do things with her that are suitable for her age and not his. If she asks to do something don't always take him too, even if you think he'd enjoy it too. Or if you really want to take him you could make it an extra treat if he comes. "We could go on our own for the morning, or what if dbro comes then we could have lunch out and make a day of it".

Make sure things she does sometimes are just for her (and he has things just for him too). And if they do the same then praising him up to encourage him can feel the same as saying to her that she isn't any good at it. No I'm not saying that you can't praise him, but don't assume becasue she's achieving higher she knows that she is better. I certainly didn't-only as an adult have I realised that actually I was so much more talented at some things he got praised at that dm assumed I knew. I didn't, and what the conclusion was that I gave up tryng and ultimately gave up doing it, because they was a less embarassing option than having him overtake me, which was what I thought would happen.

If she tells you about something she thinks is unfair/has upset her. Don't dismiss it as a silly little thing that can't possibly really upset her. I can see as an adult that some of the things that upset me were luck of the draw/really didn't matter, but it didn't stop them hurting at the time.

And don't throw things at her that you think she has better. My dm used to tell me how much luckier I was because I had a good friendship group. Now the thing was none of us found it easy socially. Dsis was unlucky in her year group, but I worked pretty hard at mine. Putting myself out for people and going to do things when I was all knotted and shy inside-forcing myself to do them because I wanted to be friends, but dreading doing them. Dbro made no efforts and really seemed to go almost out of his way to refuse "Why do you think I'd want to do that?" I remember him saying down the telephone-and that was an activity he would frequently ask dm (who hated it) to take him to. Yes, he was shy and found it difficult, but my feeling was that I made the effort and got the rewards, and it was unfair to throw that back at me.

Oh and one last thing:
If you do discuss things and come up with a plan of action, Do follow it through, don't give up because it's awkward.
We once had a long discussion and I brought up something that was blatently unfair-to the point looking back as an adult I can't believe they hadn't realised before I raised it.
They totally agreed with me, and said they would change it. Well he made such a fuss that lasted almost 2 weeks before it reverted back. And yes, both phrases "He's going through a difficult time" and "he's your brother" were used when I objected.

But I generally had a happy childhood, felt valued and loved by my dp. I'm condensing all the things that I found difficult into a post.

What I got from your post was entirely about how to change your dd. Now it may be all her, but what I want you to consider is that it isn't necessarily all her, and she may be hurting over what, to you was so small you have forgotten it. Sanctions for her behaviour in that case may stop the behaviour on the face of it, but will just drive the feeling underground which will have far worse effect in the long term.

[hillyhilly]

DeeWe thanks for your long reply, it certainly gives me food for thought, exactly as you say, we always try to be fair but it is often not perceived as such.
I think a friend of mine has the siblings without rivalry book, will try to borrow it.
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