Please help - 7 year old ds behaviour upsetting everyone in the family

[Jemster]

My ds is 7 and is behaviour at the moment is awful. I feel like crying every day and it's affecting my marriage as we're constantly stressed & finding it hard to know how to deal with him.

He is rude, grumpy, mean to his sister (3) and constantly making her cry. He calls her names and teaches her to say words he's learned in the playground, not swear words but poo, stinky bum, etc which she then repeats.

He is ungrateful, never happy with what he has got (which is a lot!) and selfish. He will strop if I ask him to help with the smallest thing, he drops things rather than putting them in the bin despite me repeatedly asking him to put things in the bin. If he plays with something he won't put it away, if he does cutting or sticking he just leaves all the mess on the table for me to clear up.
I've repeatedly explained that as a family we need to all help keeping things tidy & be nice to each other but nothing changes.

The two of them argue constantly & I'm exhausted and sick of it. I'm starting to not even want to be around them which is an awful thing to feel.

He seems to have no idea that his behaviour is upsetting everyone in the family, it's like he doesn't care.

Does anyone have any suggestions as to what I can do? I make him sound awful but he can be loving, fun & kind but it just seems to be less & less these days.

[TywysogesGymraeg]

What measures have you tried already?

[Jemster]

We send him to his room which to be honest has no effect, he often laughs as goes up the stairs. We've started taking away the use of electronics for a day at a time. He doesn't like that but again it doesn't seem to make him improve his behaviour.
I've sat on his bed at bedtime and tried to talk to him about it & explain how his behaviour is making people feel. Sometimes he seems to listen but the other night he just said 'can you go away now please'.
I feel like he doesn't like me, he certainly doesn't respect me.
I think about what my parents did but of course that was in the day of smacking and although I don't like that at least I had some respect for my parents and would think twice before doing something that might result in that.

[FoxyVeganJane]

Does he behave in school? If he behaves in school what reward system do they use at school?

Try implementing the reward system used at school at home too for consistency. We do this, I've just started and its working wondefully. We also have the same rules they they have at school.

How is his sleep, is he tired?

Maybe be more firm, my friend used this method. If he doesn't put his toys away, start removing one until he puts them away and then return a toy for good behaviour. If he doesn't clean up after craft, then when he asks to do craft say not today as you don't tidy up - show me your responsible by keeping your toys tidy and then you can have craft.

With the baby everytime he uses bad language around her, remove him from the room and explain why we don't talk like this. I would put a token in a jar everytime he uses bad language and then remove something he likes. So if you keep using bad language ds and this jar gets full of tokens you loose TV for the day or another favourite thing.

Everytime you see him playing nicely or talking nicely put another token in another jar like a treat jar. Different coloured tokens for the jars, clearly labelled and be consistent.

Also don't be shouty, be firm and level and consistent. It's hard, it won't always work. Don't get disheartened when it goes wrong just try again.

It's hard I'm going through this with my four dc but I am seeing small improvements which is bloomin brilliant.

[SavoyCabbage]

If this were me, I would focus on just one thing at a time. And I would pick the relationship between him and his sister first.

So in the meantime I would let some of the other stuff slide.

Try to play with both of them together. Sort of showing them how it's done. So if it's a board game saying stuff like 'good throw DS! Wasn't that a good throw dd? He got another six there' and 'another ladder for dd! Look DS, she got another one. We are going to have to throw some big numbers to catch her aren't we!'

If it's a more imaginative thing, like a farm or a train set then use his knowledge a bit. 'Can you show dd how to couple those trains? I don't think she knows how to do it but I've seen you do it lots of times' or 'can you show dd which is the cow shed DS. I don't think she knows which one it is'

I would also try to boost their relationship by telling him things about dd (even if it's all exaggerated) like she brushes her teeth/skips puts on her socks/prefers jam sandwiches over cheese just like he did when he was three. Again get him to show her how to do things or ask him to tell her things. If she's going to put her shoes on the wrong feet, can he tell her as he knows which ones they go on. Make him feel useful and proud to be be a big brother.

Also I would make sure he gets time with you without his little sister. Probably by putting her to bed first.

Younger siblings can be annoying and he will need time to play without her interfering too. Make sure that she doesn't have the opportunity to mess with his tots etc. whilst he is not there. I found my youngest giving a pre-school friend a tour of my oldest dd's bedroom when she was at school! Drawing on her pictures and things like that.

[SavoyCabbage]

*toys not tots...

[BarbarianMum]

I think Savoy is very wise. Your ds probably isn't enjoying being the eldest very much at the moment - all that blame and responsibility. Be very careful that you aren't always holding him responsible for his sister's behaviour (she will hear words like poo and smelly bum from other 3 year olds). Equally, although he should be kind to her, 3 year olds do cry when things don't go their way - doesn't mean that the other child is always in the wrong.

IME children need a lot of reminders and support to clear up after themselves. You are a few years away from being able to leave him to it. You say he is spoilt. I hope that's not true but if it is, it is certainly not his fault.

[Angelface5]

Jemster watching with interest as your ds sounds just like my ds. My dd is 4 though and my ds has her in tears every day and his behaviour is putting such a strain on my whole family.

[Nellagain]

My youngest ds is 6. H can also be in tears every day as a result of older brothers. However a lot of the time it is an attempt at manipulation. So when the youngest is crying is it because they are genuinely upset due to awful behaviour or because they won't compromise?

Do you want the eldest to compromise all the time? Beware that one ...it can lead to assertiveness issues down the line.

It just sounds like normal family life to be honest. I would let them sort themselves out and ignore a bit unless there is out and out violence! Get them out and doing activities they will both enjoy and bond over. Encourage what they have in common. If he won't tidy up then as pp have said remove toys. It gets easier- ,its just the age.

[AlternativeTentacles]

I think you need to learn some basic parenting techniques. Chats on the bed about his impact are not going to work at age 7. 17 maybe.

[DeeWe]

I agree with Savoy as well.
I've a 7yo ds and words like "poo" etc are terribly to them at that age. I don't think he's trying to be mean teaching her that, more share something he thinks is funny-unless he promptly runs to you and says she is saying "naughty words".

I think it sounds like you've got into a very negative cycle where he feels it's all his fault.
I would ask the following questions:

1. Does he get time with you on his own?
   
2. Do you expect his sister to clear up etc as well?
   
3. Is he expected to share with her everything? Even if you say she is too, then actually the chances are his things are much more attractive to her, than hers are to his so it isn't equal.
   
4. If you hear her crying do you assume it is his fault?
   
5. Does he gain treats by being the older-eg later bedtime?
   
6. When was the last time you praised him for something he had done, and didn't praise her at the same time?
   
7. Do you say things like "now you're 7 I expect..." or "you're 7yo you must know that..."?
   

At 7yo I don't think chats on the bed and saying things like "we need to all keep it nice and tidy" are good-maybe he thinks it's nice and messy. And no, he won't realise how his behaviour effects the rest of the family, and I doubt many adults do either.

As Savoy said, concetrate on the relationship first. But don't expect miracles from the off. Plus do acknowlege how a 3yo can spoil a 7yos game, don't epect him to always welcome her, and if it is something where she may spoil what he's doing then take her off to do something else.

[ragged]

I've sat on his bed at bedtime and tried to talk to him about it & explain how his behaviour is making people feel. Sometimes he seems to listen but the other night he just said 'can you go away now please'.

Listen more & talk a heck of a lot less. Ask him to share his day, tell you what's on his mind, listen attentively and share his conversation even if you're bored witless. If you can find a few 5 minute windows to really talk & listen to him in the day he will act up less to get your attention.

[titchy]

You're putting an awful lot of the responsibility happy families on his shoulders poor thing - he's only 7.

Nothing you have said is unusual - that is basically what family life is like with two kids. But to be in tears about it every night, thinking he should be aware of how he is affecting the the family and affecting your marriage is NOT a normal reaction on your part. You can't expect a 7 year old to appreciate what he's got - that's an adult response. He's a little kid.

Oh and poo and stinky bum are funny you know - do you not inwardly snigger when he says these things?

[Jemster]

Yes I do find it funny when he says poo etc & I totally accept it's his age as all his friends are saying it too. My 3 year old hasn't heard it from other 3 year olds as she goes to a childminder where there's one other child, her daughter & she wouldn't like them saying things like that at that age. In fact it's more me worrying about what other people will think when they hear my 3 yr old saying so & so's bum stinks than me being bothered, I can remember being a child myself!
I always make an effort to talk to my ds every day, on the walk home from school, at teatime & at bedtime so please don't assume that I don't bother. It is difficult trying to find things to do at home that they both like as they are 4.5 years apart in age. I will try the suggestion of trying to encourage him to show & help his sister more.
I always praise him when he does something good, I am very aware of the importance of doing so. I am also fair at listening when there's a dispute & will not just blame him.
He does have a later bedtime because he is older.
I very rarely spend time on my own with him as in the week it's not possible. I think this is a good idea though so will look at trying to do something at the weekends.
I flicked through several parenting books & websites & one of them suggested sitting on the bed & calmly talking to him to see if there's anything bothering him or just to chat without constant interruption from 3 yr old. I don't see why this is a bad thing, some of the best chats & funniest moments have been at this time of the day.
I guess I just need to persevere & keep trying to do the best I can. I just find parenting hard at times, I'm sure I'm not the only one.

[mummytime]

I bad certain words because I was sick of hearing them.

But I would also suggest you try seeking and rewarding "good behaviour". Even "half-heartedly throwing stuff towards the bin" and missing, rather than just dropping.

Try to make bedtime fun, rather than a nagging session - especially if that is the only time you have with him during the week.

To be honest a lot of it is totally normal for a 7 year old, and some I can imagine my older children doing (they do grow out of poo etc.). If your CM would be horrified by your three year old using such words, then she has a lot to learn and will find life quite shocking. (I was embarrassed when traveling with my SIL in the car and my 5 year old said "Fuck", the only redeeming features were the older ones automatically telling her she mustn't say that, and SIL finding it funny not shocking.)

Arguing with siblings - is part of siblings, unfortunately. If its too bad, then you may have to separate. Also don't blame him for everything, smaller ones and girls can provoke.