Evenings from hell 3x a week with 2yo and 5yo - any tips?

[Bozza]

I work Tues to Thurs and on these days the children are awful. I pick DS up from the CM and DD up from nursery and get home for abut 5.50. DH is usually home at a similar time. I get changed and have a meal on the table by about 6.10, while DH makes drinks, supervises DD etc. Then we eat by about 6.30, play, then at 7 it is upstairs, bath, pjs, teeth, story and bed.

But just now DD is really hard to deal with. Sometimes it kicks off in the nursery car park because she won't get in her seat (she insists on doing this herself), otherwise it is at teatime. Then while we are playing she is fairly OK - although does get cross or try to get involved while DS is reading his reading book. But once she gets out of the bath it all starts again, usually calming down when she has a story.

All this in turn has a negative impact on DS's behaviour - he is attention seeking I think.

Last night was particularly bad, with DD screaming at teatime, hitting both DH and me, saying she didn't like me, DS refusing to eat because he had his hands over his ears etc, complaining about the photo album I had bought him to put his holiday photos (disposable camera) in, whining about being sent upstairs to get his reading book etc. DD calmed down at this point and enjoyed putting the photos in the album. They enjoyed their bath, blowing bubbles etc. Then when they got out it started all over again. DD complaining about which towel she had (they are identical), DS complaining in return, DS crowding DD (to wind her up), DD hitting DS, DD refusing to choose which pants to wear and refusing to let us choose, DD hitting DH, DD refusing to clean her teeth, DD throwing her toothbrush across the bathroom etc etc.

The rest of the time, though, DD is a lovely little girl who just gets on with things. We went out for an extended family meal on Sunday and (despite no nap) she was really well behaved despite it dragging on for about 4 hours. Yet last night she couldn't manage 20 minutes in the kitchen.

[Bozza]

Any suggestions to get round this? What am I doing wrong? Could I change the routine?

[NotQuiteCockney]

It sounds really rushed tbh. Any chance you can skip some of the routine, replacing it with more mellow time? (e.g. have tea ready ahead of time? Or skip the bath, at least on Tuesday and Thursday?)

Your DD is the two-year-old?

The other obvious suggestion is to try to reward them for being good at this time, the usual drill, lots of praise.

I think I would be flustered, myself, trying to get tea made, kids fed, bathed, and to bed that quickly, after a long day's work. I'd be in a hurry to get it all done now and not on for putting up with any trouble. But if you get frustrated or annoyed, it just makes everything worse ...

[madmarchscare]

I agree it does seem rushed, DS hates to be rushed in a morning so I just get up earlier when he goes to nursery.

I would skip the baths too and maybe you could try giving them individual quiet time, ie, you with DD in her bedroon and DH somewhere else with DS or whatever.

[Bozza]

LOL at your last sentence nqc - it so true and I think I am fairly good at not getting frustrated but when it gets to 7.30 I am sad that all the time I have seen the children that day has been like that.

I do have tea ready ahead of time. But it just takes me 20 mins to get in, take DD's coat and shoes off, get changed, set the table, and warm the food up. Last night, for instance, we had shepherd's pie and green beans. DD has tea at nursery but it is at about 3.45 so I really feel like she needs something else before bed. I have tried just giving her a yoghurt or banana or whatever but she insists on having the same as the rest of us. So I do try and give her a really tiny portion, spread out on the plate or else she asks for more. DS does not eat at the CM so does need a meal.

I am wondering about skipping the bath. Might announce it tonight and see what they say. Would have to give them one in the morning though because school disco tomorrow night. But the thing is that the bath is the bit where they are OK.

[Bozza]

Try to do the individual time and sometimes it works, sometimes DD just follows to wherever DS is. It certainly helps DS though. Because his nose his definitely put out of joint by DD's behaviour.

[bluejelly]

I work full time and so don't get home till 10 past 6. My instinct on getting in is to rush around, getting dinner ready etc. But what I try and force myself to do is sit down, have a cuddle and a chat with my dd for 10 mins, basically helping her to unwind and readjust to home. Then I change, get tea on the table whilst she is watching a bit of tele. We eat then I run the bath, we both get in it and then maybe time for a game or some homework, then story and bed.
It's never hugely enjoyable but we have fab weekends to make up for it. She's 6 by the way

[Bozza]

What time does she go to bed bluejelly? I feel like I have to shake things up somehow but not sure how? With DD there are certain trigger points so shaking things up might avoid these.

I have a lovely time with DD the rest of the time. But it is like all her terrible twos are thrown into this 4.5 hours a week.

[bluejelly]

My dd is in bed by 8... asleep by around 8.15 I guess...
To be honest I just think 2 is a difficult age, she is going to be 'terrible' sometimes and it happens to be on the days you work. But I don't think that means you shouldnt work or that you should necessarily do things differently.

[Bozza]

I guess you are right. Sometimes I get socaught up in things I can't see the clear picture. DD likes going to nursery and asks to go on the days I am not working, but I think a day there does tend to send her that way. As if she has done all her conforming during the day. She is currently playing very nicely with her friend while I am on here - so can't complain.