cant take any more

[woollyandtig]

For last 2 years dd (5) has been a nightmare she throws mega tantrums daily , bullys other children and has no respet for me or her father or anyone to be honest .
She is a horrible child 90% of the time , we love her so much and she wants for nothing she has life so easy but throws it back in our faces , today has been a living hell once again , she woke up fine got ready for school then decided her bag was wrong one and she wanted to take every teddy she owns she was in hysterics kicking screaming and refusing to go to school I really cant cope anymore and I dont know what too do she is currently sat it her room screaming, I have to phone school again to explain this it happens far too often I cant carry her to school as dd2 is only 8 weeks so impossible to carry both. Before dd2 came along she would get carried kicking and screaming . Im scared of what will happen the school are already on at us about this but I have ran out of idea's sorry for massive rant Im sat here in tears as I genuinly dislike dd I love her but I dont like the person she has become.
She has obsessions with everything from sticks to teddys and its manic , she worries about everything school , death etc. She wants to save everysingle bath full of water and atleast a 3rd of every meal there is no reasoning with her its constant.
I cant do it anymore dd2 is suffering because of her she intentionaly wakes her up which I cant understand surely when dd2s sleeps dd gets more time with us so why wake her ?.
Im not expecting any magic cure but any advice welcome.

[soupmaker]

Don't have any answers but didn't want to read and run.

I have a similar gap between my two DDs.

I suspect that everything will have been heightened by the arrival of the baby and you must be exhausted.

How has your DD1 been generally with the baby?

I think you do need to get some support and help. How is DD1 at school? Have you got a sensible HV to chat to? Is there any support via school?

[have4goneinsane]

Huge empathy for you here - you are describing life with my DD when she was a similar age, I also had a tiny baby. 3 years on and I'm afraid to say life is still tough but it has got better. My DD now has a diagnosis of ASD and ODD, as well as being gifted, but the diagnosis hasnt changed the behaviour or the fact that it is exhausting to deal with.

We have changed our expectations of DD but she by no means has life easy (in fact, life has only got better since we've laid down boundaries of steel!). We discovered that she couldn't understand the idea of 'chances' - if she could get away with doing something twice, then why not 5,6 or 100 times? - so now she doesn't get chances, which sounds draconian, but makes her feel a lot more sure of where the boundaries are. Everything is very scaffolded for her - only one instruction at a time, a visual chart of what she needs to do every morning, warnings before a change of activity ...

We totally ignore screaming, just repeat ad nauseum what we want her to do "DD put your shoes on" ...(count to 10) "DD put your shoes on" ... "shoes" ... "shoes" ... "shoes" and get on with other stuff acting totally unconcerned but firm. The response time has got quicker and quicker because she knows we won't shut up until she does it (not getting angry is key for us as otherwise it feels like she just feeds off the negative attention).

If I want to hurry things up I do just walk out the front door on a school morning - she hates the idea of being left and will pretty quickly be with me (if she's forgotten stuff, then tough).

DD2 is 3 now and has survived being woken from so many naps I lost count (more sleep also helps in the coping!). Haven't found a solution to the obsessions, or the not liking her very much quite a lot some of the time, although that has improved as the behaviour improved.

[LeftyLoony]

If this has been going on two years it definitely predates the baby and it's a bit prolonged for a phase.

I'd recommend asking the GP to refer you to the Child Development Centre to rule out any developmental issues.

[woollyandtig]

Thanks for the replies
soupmaker She love's dd2 but is jealous, me and h both try to spend time with her alone and she isnt short of attention .
I forgot to mention we have been in contact with hv for thelast few months and after much convincing that its not just down to dd2 arriving she has sent refferel last week so hopefully hear back very soon.

Her school have been brilliant but they are of course strict with her arriving late or like today not going at all , she moved schools just after christmas as she had even more issue's at her old school she couldnt sleep before and would stay awake crying till 11pm most nights thankfully since new school she is in bed asleep for 8 with no worries.

have4goneinsane dd sounds very similar to yours we supspect she has something that needs diagnosed but what scares me is if she does'nt then we are just crappy parents, she is very clingy so walking out door might be worth trying it just such a struggle everyday I go to bed worried and dread the alarm going off.


LeftyLoony its been just under 3 years since she started the rituals and anxiety , at first hv but it down as phase, took so much convincing but now refferall has been done hopefully we get some answers , just wish I knew what to do in the meantime.

[LeftyLoony]

Is she better if you follow a strict routine? Limit her choices to two things?

You could try visual prompts? The following link us autism specific but I know visual stuff can be helpful in a range of situations.

supports June 2013.ashx here

[soupmaker]

Woolly, you most certainly are not crappy parents. Sounds like you've done a great job in the circumstances. Your DD1 sounds such hard work and it's so exhausting when you can't get a break.

Hope you get some proper support soon.

[Iworrymyselftosleep]

I absolutely second soupmaker above - you aren't a crappy parent but have a dd who needs some help, whether in the framework of a diagnosis or just specific to her current issues. And you have an eight week old which is also exhausting. You aren't bad at this - you're bloody superwoman right now.

Keep communication with the school open if you find them supportive. Does anything help dd1? Is she happier with quiet time / no rushing / strict routine ?

[sewingandcakes]

I think you should ask your GP to refer her for a developmental assessment, explain her obsessions and rituals, and her tantrums to them. If there is something that she needs extra help with, it's better to find out sooner rather than later, so that you can give her the right support.

I say this as the mother of ds1 (8) who has just been diagnosed with ADHD, and about to be diagnosed with Aspergers (I reckon). I have had years of feeling guilt that I'm a bad parent, guilt that I want him to get a diagnosis, and depression partly due to the stress and isolation of it all. Now I know a bit better how he feels, and why he behaves the way he does. I also am determined to be an advocate for him, rather than putting my head down to avoid other parents stares.

You're a great mum, asking on here shows that you care. Congratulations on your new baby too.

[sewingandcakes]

Oh yes and leaving the house for school is a flashpoint for ds too: he finds the transition hard. I'm currently making a PECS schedule for him to see if it helps.

[woollyandtig]

Thanks again for the replies

LeftyLoony we have tried being very structured and she decided she couldnt wear socks or shoes for 6 months , its as if she has to be in control and will make sure she is , but if we give her options she trys to takes advantage.
Visual prompts sound promising though.

Thanks soupmaker I feel like a complete failure but hopefully it will all work out soon , she managed to smash the tv this evening by throwing the remote at it all because I told her not to drag the dog around. Its been another crappy day yet more stress and expense.
I wish i could get a break from her easter hols where a nightmare I tried everything to make her happy and each and everytime she threw it back in my face .

Iworrymyselftosleep Im far from superwoman but thanks , she did ok when school let her arrive 5 mins late and use main entrance she would go without having to be carried screaming , but they are insisting we stick at getting her to line up now I can see why they want her too but it isnt doing anyone any good the other kids must be terrified and I know the other parents are having a right good gossip.

sewingandcakes thats where I want to get too , I am 99% sure she has some conditon her teacher at last school suggested it might be add but She shows signs of so many different one's its hard to pinpoint. I just want to know so atleast I know she isnt just doing the things she does to hurt me.
Dd was completely fine this morning until time to go out the door its like that every morning I know she cant control it , she cant even explain why she gets so worked up its almost manic behaviour. Is PECS schedule a visual prompts schedule ?

Thanks dd2 is only thing keeping me sane right now she is such an easy happy baby.

[sewingandcakes]

PECS is a visual schedule, yes.

Luckily ds has a good teacher who understands him instead of making him feel naughty. He has pictures of his school day stuck to his desk, so he knows what's coming up. What you said about lining up sounds familiar: this was a time when ds would hit out at other kids. School now allow him to go straight into class when the bell rings, and get himself settled before everyone else comes in. It's made a big difference. It's good if you get school onside.

Your dd may well have a combination of two or more things going on; it's common for conditions to exist alongside each other. It's hard and exhausting when you're dealing with it all the time, but if you can get a diagnosis then you'll be more aware of the triggers and how to deal with meltdowns better.

I hope things get better.

[have4goneinsane]

glad you have a referral in and hope it sheds some light on things.

Can you do a gradual transition to lining up? DD has to be at the front of the line to cope and DS2 was similar at a similar age (also Aspergers). Lining up can be quite a scary thing - kids in close physical proximity and there is often pushing and shoving, even just touching can be too much for DS2.

See if you can work with school on this one - can she start by going in the normal door ahead of the other kids, then move on to being at the front of the line with teacher/TA holding her hand?

I highly recommend sending children to play schemes/holiday clubs during the holidays to give yourself some respite. Church holiday clubs and sports camps worked best for us in the UK - they were often unfased by my kids' antics and with a bit of a heads up would cope fine (and if it was only one or 2 days TBH it didn't matter anyway so long as my kids enjoyed it).

Dreading the morning is bad - I'm just about past that (anti-depressants have helped!) as it ruins the whole night's sleep and also I find that I stay up later than I should because I am treasuring the time when it's quiet and I can just 'be' and think straight without constant running commentary and screaming and random things happening.

[JaneParker]

Poor you. Could you get ready 15 minutes early every day for school even if you then arrive early and could you buy some kind of buggy so that the baby can be on a sling and you strap the 5 year old into the push chair and force her that way? Doesn't sound easy though.

Would she more likely go with someone else? If you can afford it is it worth hiring a child minder just to pick her up from school and take her each day?

[Goldmandra]

She sounds just like my DDs who have AS.

Their one biggest problem is school even though they both hide their difficulties there and behave like angels.

Things that have helped them are:

Having somewhere quiet to go at lunchtimes.

Sensory breaks if they get too stressed.

Sitting at the end of rows and going at the beginning or end of lines.

Help with organisation.

Visual timetables and warnings of changes to routines.

Support with peer relationships.

Not having to eat in the dining hall.

Not having to do homework at home.

A little extra space around their desks to help protect their personal space.

Support to communicate worries even though they have excellent vocabularies.