DD referral to a pediatrician - in the meantime she is driving me mad, DR JEKYLL Mr HYDE at 5????

[evenafterall]

Background DD (nearly 5 now) described as a lovely child a school who is always well behaved and bright. Bit of a loner but seems happy with it. However she is noticeably clumsy there, frequently falling over, tripping etc as well as struggling to hold pencil in the pencil grip. This is so noticeable she is being referred and we've agreed. How does that work, does anyone know / been though this?

Meanwhile, at home she behaves like a little shit most of the time. Has basically a huge issue with accepting authority and will attempt to get me involved in endless arguments about the most tedious things, like ITEM - going to the toilet. She will not go, even though she is at the point of wetting herself she refuses. Chatters incessantly. Is oppositional even to treats - when I offered her TV whilst I fed baby DS she said she didn't want to watch it! Will pull faces and talk gobbelygook, pretend not to hear, get stroppy, tell me not to tell her what to do, get clingy and demand ongoing attention when her brother is crying. This evening DS told her to put pyjamas on, she 20 mins later was still running around her bedroom doing forward rolls and creating chaos; during that time I asked her twice to put her pyjamas on. DH came back in the room and gently chided her. Massive meltdown followed with endless whingeing. He spent an hour explaining to her that she needs to be good and not make us sad. She said she didn't care just wanted to do what she wanted to do and us not tell her what to do and that mummy was naughty for telling her off!!!! BTW she has previously said that she was going to hit me or kick me and her baby brother as a direct reaction to being chided. How can she be so good at school and so annoying at home?

[Luckyluckyme]

DD is 5 and is exactly the same when she's tired/ jealous/ frustrated.

I wouldn't tell her she is making you sad. Your happiness is too much responsibility for a 5 year old.

[OutragedFromLeeds]

because she's a child.

95% of children are better behaved at school than home. They save it up for you.

Why are you spending an hour explaining to her that she needs to be good?!

How do you engage with her when she seeks your attention in this way?

[evenafterall]

Well we usually attempt to calm her down from being in the midst of a meltdown by cuddling her and explaining to her that she needs to behave better and why what she doing is not good or allowed.

If she's been very bad she is sent to have time out but that usually just means she stomp upstairs and then continues to shout and scream and cry in her bedroom and then runs back downstairs screaming about how its not fair and how naughty we are. We do the counting thing as well, recently stopped working.

[Luckyluckyme]

When DD2 was born I expected too much of DD1 and treated her far older than her years.

I expected her to act as a small "adult" instead of a little girl. Do you think you might be doing this?

[evenafterall]

No I don't think so. Her behaviour is really unbearable. She is unstoppable and deliberately acts out. I mean what are your expectations. When you say do something the kid ought to do it right? I've just been at a friends house and saw no evidence whatsoever of her children doing that. In fact I have never seen anyone eleses children behaving like that at all.

[Looking4Sun]

"When you say something at kid ought to do it right?"

Are you kidding me??!! They are a kid! That is exactly the point, they will push you to your tether, they are constantly discovering their own limits and yours. No a child will not do something just because you say so. Your child is 5 years old (same as mine as a matter of fact) and 'newsflash' they sound completely normal!

I think you are wearing the blinders when you 'see' other peoples children. Already several parents on this thread have said that their children do similar things.

[OutragedFromLeeds]

'Well we usually attempt to calm her down from being in the midst of a meltdown by cuddling her and explaining to her that she needs to behave better and why what she doing is not good or allowed.'

I think that's your problem, she gets far too much attention for negative bheaviour. You need to ignore it. Then when she has calmed down and is behaving well, cuddle her and tell her how much you like what she's doing now. Instead of constantly telling her why what she's doing isn't good, focus on telling her why what she's doing is good. Stop criticising her, she's 4.

Things like 'chattering incessantly' isn't naughty, it does drive you mad, but it's just what kids do. Equally pulling faces and messing around isn't naughty. There's not really anything on your list that is 'bad behaviour' it's just 5-year old behaviour. Instead of a an hour long lecture, you need to ignore and distract.

What happens with going to the toilet if you don't nag her? Does she actually wet herself, or will she go just in time?

If she doesn't want to watch TV, then fine! Don't mahe arguments where there doesn't need to be any.

Being stroppy and saying she's going to kick you or whatever, all normal when in a temper tanturm as well. Leave it at the time and then when she's calmed down, tell her briefly 'that isn't a nice thing to say' and encourage her to say sorry (don't force the issue though).

'He spent an hour explaining to her that she needs to be good and not make us sad'

This just makes me . She's 4. It was bedtime. She's probably tired.

How can she be so good at school and so annoying at home?

From the sound of it, because they handle her beahviour significantly better. The opposite to good isn't annoying btw. She's probably annoying at school too. 5 year olds can be 'annoying'. Maybe the teacher has more realistic expectations of 5 year olds and a higher tolerance to deal with their constant chatter/messing about/stroppiness etc.

Have you considered a parenting course? I think they can be really helpful for giving you strategies to deal with this sort of thing.

[bamboozled]

Pretty much standard for a 5 year old with a new sibling...
It's also MUCH better that she misbehaves at home and is good at school, rather than the other way round. As an early years teacher, parents who have the reverse situation find it really hard to understand that their angel is naughty and pushing boundaries at school...

[Stephanie16]

Hi there, it could be she is jealous as others are saying but could also be something else as you mentioned she is being referred as she has problems like she is noticeably clumsy, frequently falling over, tripping and struggling to hold pencil in the pencil grip. It sounds like a motor problems to me, but I am no expert if you post this on the special needs you might hear about others with children with related prolems.

[Lotta1234]

Yeah, the delay with writing sounds like hypermobility. Ditto the "clumsiness". Also, hypermobility makes children more tired than others their age hence the tired behaviour. I might be way off but have a read and think about it. And it sounds like she needs more positive interaction at home to counter balance the negative behaviour.

[thornrose]

Evenafterall - can she ride a bike? What about sports, catching balls etc, does she have problems with those things?

[swallowedAfly]

ok so she has a new sibling (huge deal at that age) AND is turning out to have some kind of developmental issue such as dyspraxia which will be meaning things at school are harder for her than her peers.

and you are pissed off with her because??????

[ballstoit]

You sound like you're all trapped in a negative cycle of labeling, attention for bad behaviour and unrealistic expectations.

It must be really hard for your Dad to be struggling at school, and then viewed so negatively at home.

Over the weekend try to do the following 3 things;

• ignore the behaviour you don't like, totally ignore - don't look, pull a face, say anything about it
  
• praise any good things - actively look for even slightly good things - with descriptive praise eg 'that's great did, you did that as soon as I asked'
  
• give her 15 minutes each day with either you or dh, doing whatever she wants, without any distractions
  
  If you don't see some improvement before Monday, I'll be stunned.

[evenafterall]

hey its nice to hear all these opinions although I m amazed at how much you guys seem t want to lay into me!!! btw she has no problems at school. wow dyspraxia thats a weighty term!!! Shes being referred for being noticeably more clumsy than her peers, but writes well and is top percentile for reading.

DD has massive amounts of positive interactions daily, and is praised and rewarded for behaving well. In fact I note with some frequency that me and DH spend much more time conversing with her and paying attention to her than other people do with their children. Maybe that's the problem?


So trust me when I say that her behaviour is awful. Maybe she is a problem child of some sort. I don;t see how being clumsy links to being a massive shit every time the mood strikes her but lovely that so many mums think that I must be exaggerating and she must be some poor neglected dear!!!!!!

As for cuddling and explaining I thought that's what everybody did?

So how do you manage when your kid won't do what they are told to do, pretends not to hear you or accept your authority, butts in and interrupts, always says its not her fault when she breaks stuff she was warned not to touch etc. Screams and screams and cries when naughty step etc is used.

Thanks in advance for any helpful comments.

[thornrose]

Are you mixing up dyspraxia and dyslexia? Since you mentioned reading! Apologies if not.

[evenafterall]

Nope I mean I just wanted to say she is able.

[swallowedAfly]

perhaps you might try googling dyspraxia.

[thornrose]

Oh ok, I see. Was she like this before your ds was born?

[swallowedAfly]

i presume by the fact that they have mentioned poor pencil grip and falling over and clumsiness this may be what the school suspects. look it up on wiki for a good starting point.

if she is getting a referral she IS having problems at school and frankly you need to think a bit deeper than just 'is she behaving' and 'is she learning ok'. poor coordination, falling over, not being able to hold a pencil like her peers, not being able to do certain things they can do etc could actually be quite stressful and cause some frustrations and upset.

i think maybe you need to think a bit more deeply and try to have some empathy towards what things might be like for her and why she may be acting out the way she is at home. also obviously you would benefit from reading a bit about the impact of a new sibling on a new child and with the combination of new sibling AND starting school near simultaneously. there is a lot going on.

[Lotta1234]

"So how do you manage when your kid won't do what they are told to do, pretends not to hear you or accept your authority, butts in and interrupts, always says its not her fault when she breaks stuff she was warned not to touch etc. Screams and screams and cries when naughty step etc is used. "

I usually modify my behaviour and that modifies my dd's. kids routinely won't do what they're told when there's a problem be it illness, a change in routine, tiredness or something more serious.

Perhaps take her somewhere else out the house if the bad behaviour is always happening at home. It can't be much fun for her at the moment. It's hard not to find your child annoying when there are behaviour problems but I've found that it usually requires a change to my parenting rather than being something that a child can just sort out. She needs help and you clearly want that as you've come on here.

Get a referral to a paediatrician and physio. I did when my daughter struggled with motor skills and it really helped us.

Good luck resolving it.

[CornflowerB]

I think the fact that you described a five year old little girl as a shit twice speaks volumes.