Advanced toddler? Is this mad?

(104 Posts)
ItsOkayItsJustMyBreath Mon 26-Nov-12 20:50:01

Have NCed for this as it feels a of a cringy thing to ask blush

Ds is 21 months and I am beginning to think that he may be showing signs of being advanced. By this I mean he knows the alphabet both names of the letters and their sounds, he can count to 12 and knows other numbers such as 20, 100, 150 but can only count objects up to 12 iyswim. He talks a lot and uses the correct verb tenses and has a very wide vocabulary. He is incredibly inquisitive, he genuinely wants to 'learn' and finds it interesting.
Today he 'sounded out/ read' his first word, "sky". It was unprompted and in the middle of the town centre.

My question is, is this normal development? Even if it is advanced it doesn't necessarily mean that he will always be advanced does it?

Sorry to be so pfb, my DM is getting very excited at the prospect of another genius in the family (the others being my DB and my biological father) and I'm not sure what to say to her as it is exciting but everyone thinks their child is brilliant don't they? grin

ItsOkayItsJustMyBreath Thu 13-Dec-12 14:38:51

Ha ha, just saw this on the daily fail. Do you think they're spying on us again? wink

anothercuppaplease Fri 30-Nov-12 12:01:59

Yes madwoman, DS is on the special needs register because of his speech disorder, but he is also very advanced in other areas. He started to read as he started to speak (at 3, he read Koko as in the train in Chuggington). As a baby, he was always putting things in order of colour, shape (without showing any other signs of asperger or autism), he could do puzzles from very young, he would point at numbers in books (page numbers) instead of pointing to the images, he would point at various shapes (for example, he walking down the road he would point at circular manhole covers on the pavment, making circles with his hands, same with squares, triangles,e tc) he could point at the correct number from 1 to 10 by 12 months old, he could point at the correct letters (phonetics) from about 14 months old. But he couldn't say byebye, or mum before he was 3 years old.

As it turns out he is now 5, in year 1, and he is exceptionally good at maths (as in, he knows that 0.25 is the same as a quarter) and he understands percentages. He is learning the piano 'by himself' we got him a book and he is learning from that, he has exceptional memory, learning his times tables, etc. He can spell words such as 'annoying' (so his teacher tells me).

Anyway, I suppose that what I'm trying to say is that some children who speak late, and who have reached other milestones later, are not necessarely behind in learning. I know people have looked funny because he can't say 'cold' clearly, or most vowels for that matter, but he will ask questions such as 'what is the smallest negative number' and know what's 50 X 50.

rhetorician Fri 30-Nov-12 11:47:45

madwoman that's pretty dreadful. I'm sorry you had to go through that.

reastie Fri 30-Nov-12 07:29:12

<waves> Wow, some really interesting comments and discussion here. FWIW I am amazed by the letters and sounding out words - DD is just about in the past month starting to say lots of words and copying what we say, but hasn't shown an interest in letters at all. She can try to count but it's inaccurate and often out of sequence. I got really excited a couple of weeks ago when she pointed to the sky and said 'sky'! Also, my DM is convinced DD is a genuis child, so maybe that's something all GPs like to think wink

madwomanintheattic Fri 30-Nov-12 03:09:52

dd2 was tested at 5 because we needed to prove she didn't have a learning disability, as we had to prove she wasn't going to be a 'burden on the state' for emigration purposes. (Hence my horror of the 'all people with cp must have learning disabilities' assumption). It was £650 I would gladly have not spent, tbh, but it was very interesting.

exoticfruits Thu 29-Nov-12 22:21:11

I can't see why you need the IQ testing at such a young age. Just enjoy.

mrsshears Thu 29-Nov-12 22:05:52

We had it done privately by an Ed psych I was recommended on here actually.
I emailed him and he called me, we had a chat about dd and then we went and had the test (which she loved) a few weeks later.

WeAreSix Thu 29-Nov-12 22:01:11

How do you arrange iq testing?

mrsshears Thu 29-Nov-12 21:59:29

My dd2 was exactly the same op, I posted on G and T asking for opinions and advice and got flamed to within an inch of my life, oh and it turned out dd has infact got an IQ on the 99.9th percentile and is highly gifted grin

Wallace Thu 29-Nov-12 21:25:23

That sounds very interesting, madwoman.

madwomanintheattic Thu 29-Nov-12 20:39:02

Yy, anothercuppa. Dd2 has cerebral palsy and wasn't expected to be verbal at all. All three of mine are gifted, but she has by far and away the highest iq.

I find it completely tragic that so many children with speech issues or non-verbal are automatically assumed to have learning difficulties. There is some research to suggest that children with athetoid cp are more likely to have higher levels of giftedness. You don't see that one doing the rounds! grin I might even have to try and find it now, haven't seen it for years!

corinthian Thu 29-Nov-12 20:29:22

My son talks far less at nursery than at home so don't think that they know that e.g. he knows his letters and colours. They came up to me the other day and told me that he'd started saying two-word sentences which he has been doing for months... Also I'm not sure how clear his speech is to other people.

ReallyTired Thu 29-Nov-12 19:58:48

Learning to speak late is not a sign of learning difficulty.

I think a child with advanced early speech is evidence that the child is intelligent, but it is too early to say if a child is gifted. DD at the age of three has lots of friends and an excellent vocabulary. Her speech is better than average, but not exceptional.

Speech is not the only indicator of intelligence. Imaginative play and concentration span are important as well.

rhetorician Thu 29-Nov-12 19:20:11

I think I am on wrong thread, really. My DD is not advanced, or clever in these terms. And I can see that these children, however wonderful, present their own challenges. I think that measuring is something that human beings just do, it's how they establish status and hierarchies. And that can be hard wherever you end up in the hierarchy.

anothercuppaplease Thu 29-Nov-12 17:16:17

There has been numerous articles and books about this subject.
One of them: www.nagcbritain.org.uk/file_upload/factsheets/447P65%20Late%20Speech%20and%20Gifted%20Children.pdf

One 'famous' author: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Einstein_syndrome

Also, in some cases, late speech is associated with a physical issue such as hypotonia, low muscle tone, which is in no way linked with intelligence or memory, or social development. It makes it harder for some children to control the right muscles to make the correct sounds, but it has no impact on the development of the part (s) of the brain controlling language, and other cognitive development, or indeed general learning.

Other speech disorders (such as developmental verbal dyspraxia or oral dyspraxia, called apraxia of speech in the US) are very difficult to treat, yet those children continue to learn even if they don't speak and if in the right environment will be very keen learners.

Violet77 Thu 29-Nov-12 16:57:33

No, but early talking is one of the primary indicators of a gifted child. By early talker i mean three word sentances at 8 months. Real conversations ( flowing sentances linked together)at 12 months, understood by everyone, with correct use of language.

I meet lots of children who talk early but very few are fluent at 12 months with extensive vocab.

When your hv does a heath check at 2 and identifies your child as being exceptionally advanced for age. Stressing how unusual it is for a three year old. When you correct them that said child is in fact two. You know.

It's different, will not make you friends and is an indicator.

Blending is sounding out your letter to read the word. So c. a. t. Is cat.

anothercuppaplease Thu 29-Nov-12 16:02:12

Hold on... early talker does not mean being clever. Many late talking children are very, very clever indeed. It is not an automatic sign of intelligence, or IQ. I have one of each, DS1 could say things like 'look mum a helicopter' at 12 months but DS2 started BABBLING at 2.5 and saying actual words at 3. Guess which one is doing better at school, reads better, and is very, very good at maths...

PerchanceToDream Thu 29-Nov-12 15:45:12

Violet what's blending?

Sounds like there're quite a few of us with exceptionally chatty little ones!

I know what you mean about being careful who you tell but what can you do when your 21 month old pipes up very loudly in a shop "Mummy look, that baby's got a blue monkey!" to the other mum's horror when said baby is in fact over 2? blush

DD will be spending time with her 2 year old cousin at Christmas who's not yet stringing two words together. That's probably fine but the dad is totally paranoid that she's behind and with my DD chatting away it'll only exacerbate the difference between them. Shush, DD, shush!

Violet77 Thu 29-Nov-12 12:17:42

I also ban any praise of being clever.
Granny ( teacher) once praised child for being clever for eating lunch.

Swift conversation on how it's not clever.

Violet77 Thu 29-Nov-12 12:13:55

I have a very bright child, i knew very early on. Three word sentances at 8 months. Crazy verbal still now at four, talKs like an adult, exceptional vocab. Can add and subtract really well. Reasons like an adult, manipulates and negotiates successfully. Can do anything, i decided to try blending at three just for fun, could read! Has an exception ability to spot the solution to any problem. ( example why do we need to wait at traffic light when no one is going the other way...they should be on sensors, aged three)

Just be really careful who you tell. I only have one friend i can talk to, other people just feel down about their own child. Tbh its a massive challenge, the endless questioning and debating. Not an easy road.

sleeplessinsuburbia Thu 29-Nov-12 09:34:46

I just watched your links, they were good, inspired me to put some effort in!

ReallyTired Thu 29-Nov-12 09:14:47
ReallyTired Thu 29-Nov-12 09:09:09

sleeplessinsuburbia please don't think I was critising your parenting. I am sure you have done a fab job. I am sure you made sure your child had a good diet, plenty of excercise, bed time stories, spoke to him etc. Prehaps the genetic element of intelligence is more noticable in the early years. I don't know.

The problem comes is that a lot of schools praise being clever rather than working hard. This has the consequences that Dwerk speaks about of making the clever child fearful of failure. The child worries because they find something hard they can't be clever. As soon as a clever child find something hard they give up and don't learn.

sleeplessinsuburbia Thu 29-Nov-12 09:01:47

Thanks for the link, I'll check it out. I do often wish I was better at parenting and wonder where he'd be. Makes me sad.

ReallyTired Thu 29-Nov-12 08:57:05

VforViennetta and sleeplessinsuburbia I think your children might benefit from brainology.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=TTXrV0_3UjY

IQ can be increased in the same way that the amount of muscle you have can be increased. Its interesting that how you use praise can affect a child.

I believe that intelligence is partially innate in the same way that atheletic ablity is partically innate. A bright child has to train their mind in the same way that an Olympic athelete has to train. A hard working average child can over take a lazy child.

I suspect that a lot of gifted children have had high quality parenting. (Not necessarily hot housed.)

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