What's your Opinion? Am I trying too hard?

[IamBlossom]

Had my second row with DH in 4 days over this now so wanted to scope the MN view. Situation in brief is:
my DS is 19 months old, and I think now is the time to teach what is expected levels of good behaviour, including eating sitting at a chair/in his high chair not running around the room. But he refuses point blank at the moment to sit in his high chair to eat, or even eat anything at all that I offer him, even though I know full well he eats EVERYTHING put in front of him at nursery where he goes 4 days a week.

DH says my expectations of how DS should be behaving are too high, I have an "idealised" view in my head of how a child should behave, probably from all the "Hippy hairy books" I read about child development (how annoying is that?) and that I need to relax and not get so wound up. Then in the next breath he tells me Breakfast is the most important meal of the day and he should be eating something before going to nursery!!

I am pregnant and probably more highly strung than normal, but I am finding that we argue about this kind of issue (how to discipline our son, is he too young for discipline, his more "in your face" approach versus my beleif in consistent repetitive but firm actions)more and more - I find it a very emotive subject, and take criticism very badly I admit..

Any ideas/shared experiences welcome. Maybe it's just a thing we need to work out together and maybe I just need to chill...........

[gogently]

I think you're right and you can start teaching him what you expect him to do, it will be a lot easier if he's sat eating at a table when you're looking after a baby. They teach them to do that at nursery don't they? and they behave like angels, so say to your dh that you're just trying to be consistent at home with what he does at nursery for an easy life (and its not some hippy theory, its tried and tested)! I hope you stop rowing and he supports you more soon

[mumeeee]

Children will often eat better at nurserybecause they have other children to follow. I'm a nursery nurse and often fin this where I work.
A 19 month old should be able to sit in a highchir for a short time but they are often very lively as your son is and would much rather run around.
I would try to relax a bit and not wory to much about what he eats at the moment.
The toddlers at my nusery sit on low chsirs at a child hight table and they are not usually strapped in although some of the chirs to have straps if needed. Would it be possible for you to get a childs chair and table for your son and then encourage to sit there by having fun loking foods. For example you could make a face out of a sandwhich or puting smallpieces of brightly coloured fruit. Hope this helps

[trice]

things to avoid:

don't make food and mealtimes a battleground
don't argue with dh in front of ds
don't expect a toddler to eat - especially if you spent time preparing the food

things to enjoy:

lively 19 month old (he wouldn't run around if he wasn't getting enough to eat)
the fact that you have a partner who cares for you and your son even if he has a different style of parenting.

things to try:
small goals (sit in high chair for five mins, eat one tablespoon of food, say please and thankyou)
fun finger food
reward system that works for ds (stickers/treats etc)
agree some goals with dh and let him help you work towards them with ds

[fatbetty]

My DS2 is almost 20 months and we are trying to set out good behaviour with him. Sometimes I think he might be too young but he completely knows what he is doing and what he can get away with. We even put him in little time outs and he knows he has done something wrong. I think starting this now isn't unreasonable. It will hopefully make you life easier in the future.

I too am pregnant (only 7 weeks) and find that I'm constantly bickering with DH. I think it's all the hormones. If DS is doing things at nursery then I think he should continue that behaviour at home.

[IamBlossom]

this is all really helpful thankyou. Agree, Trice, with your list of thngs to be thankful for.
I have got a small table and chairs I bought just because i saw he liked sitting at them at nursery, haven't really used them yet cos he likes to pick the chair up and lob it, but I think I will get rid of the high chair now and start using that instead for meals. Bit unfair to expect him to be strapped down at home and not at nursery...

[florenceuk]

My DD is 18mths, and she will sit in her highchair if she is strapped in, and if she is hungry. I get her down if she is not hungry, otherwise she lobs her plate across the table. I wouldn't expect her to sit at a table - too litle as yet, she'd just roam around the room with her food waving it around. In fact, I don't really expect that much in terms of self control. When she does something I don't like (like hitting or biting) I put her down and say no, or I remove her from the situation. So I agree with you, consistent and firm, but don't set your standards too high. They are still very small at 19mths.

[madmarchhare]

DS just didnt like his highchair. Have you tried a booster seat so he actually feels like he's sitting at the table properly like you do? It worked wonders with DS at around this age.

I dont think its too early to encourage a behaviour that at some point is going to be expected.

[Bozza]

Personally I would stick with the high chair (or go for the booster that madmarchhare suggests) or he will be even less likely to stay at the table. I do not think it is at all unfair to expect him to be strapped down at home but not nursery. DD is 22 months, goes to nursery 3 days a week and sits in a little chair at a little table there. In fact the nursery staff have mentioned that they can tell that she is used to sitting at the table for a family meal at home. So she sits at the table with the rest of the family for meals strapped in to her booster. She is also strapped in for colouring/painting/play-do etc but that is a safety issue. My children have sat at the table for family meals since pre-weaning.

However I am in a minority on mumsnet so you may wish to disregard my opinion.

[nulnulcat]

dd refused to sit in highchair so got her a little plastic chair and table (supposed to be for garden) let her decorate it with loads of stickers and the problem was solved she loved to sit in it, she is 2 now and is able to sit at table with us but prefers her own table and chair when she is not sat in it she puts her dolls in it and feeds them, got 2 chairs for it so when she had her friends round they could both sit at the table to eat

[madmarchhare]

What happens when you eat out though?

[IamBlossom]

I like the booster chair idea, and in fact have just been discussing that with DH (yes we are friends again :)) I think to expect him to sit at the little table on his own is a bit too much and I can't cope with fod everywhere if he runs around. I think he only sits at the table at nursery cos everyone else does it....

[PiccadillyCircus]

DS hated his ighchair from about 15 months and we found a booster chair improved mealtimes for everyone.

Personally I find an amount of "containment" is good.

[Bozza]

I love the booster chair - so much more compact than the great, messy high chair. I offloaded it onto my sister as soon as DD was 1. And also great for messy activities.

[florenceuk]

We use a tripp trapp with a baby seat attachment - which can also be used as they get older (until they decide they don't want to sit in the "baby" chair!).

[Sparklemagic]

another vote for the booster seat, my DS was happier in it for meals.

I have worked with children and families for years now and have to go with your parenting approach of 'consistent, repetitive but firm', you are dead right. Don't forget the NSPCC advice that under two years of age, children don't have the ability to be deliberately naughty; they are creatures of impulse, and also hard-wired to seek attention. So for instance a child could be seen as 'naughty' if you say to them "Don't you dare pick up that glass" and they then do exactly that; but infact they are simply revelling in the power of keeping your attention.

As you say, at this age 'discipline' is inappropriate - far better to instil 'systems' that simply become routine. eg, "we always sit down to eat". I always explained why, to my DS, they are able to understand much more than they are able to say so I think this is important.

If you think of it in terms of giving him routine rather than discipline I'm sure you are on the right track. The only 'discipline' I used with DS was occasional 'time-out' in his room.

Feel strong that your approach is right! and good luck with new baby!

[Twiglett]

a 19 month old can easily be strapped into a high chair

there is no way I'd feed a child of mine on the run .. they should be fed at the table

think your DH is being a bit silly tbh ... what does he think will happen that your child will suddenly get to a magical age when he'll sit nicely at the table .. it won't happen if you don't make it happen and the earlier the better

of course I wouldn't get wound up about what he eats .. but the fact of sitting in a highchair or booster sit at the table to eat as a family is very important IMHO

[Bozza]

Think sparklemagic's post differentiating routine and discipline is very good. Toddlers love routine and I think the average toddler has a routine based around eating and sleeping.

[Sparklemagic]

hurray, bozza, thanks! It's just nice to know someone reads what I write sometimes!!

[SAMARA88]

Variety is the answer for us when it comes to where to eat meals and some basic rules od discipline e.g. no throwing deliberately on the floor when he doesnt want to eat anymore have to be enforced. The small chair and table similar to nursery type mentioned earlier works most of the time for my 16 month old. It helps if you sit with him at his level at times when he is moody, tired or not interested in his meal. If we are going to use the high chair which feels restricting as they grow older and want to get out of it at this stage, distractions such as music to listen to while we eat or a few high chair toys, plastic containers of various sizes and colours. Sometimes he even get to sit on the kitchen worktop and explores items nearby (you have to have screened the area first for possible dangers as he has his dinner.

[ghosty]

One of the things I did with DD when she was younger was refuse to give her anything to eat if she was out of the high chair ... so no snacks or anything. She soon worked it out and is pretty good at sitting during mealtimes. I can't make her eat so sometimes she just mucks around and eats a tiny bit but she knows that if she gets out of the high chair that is it for food.
However, if she asks for food not at a mealtime and goes to sit in her high chair I don't deny her food ...

[threebob]

I'm with ghosty on this one. No food outside the highchair until your ds gets that that is where the food is at. Ds is 3 and can sit on a proper chair at MIL or at a cafe, but still likes to have a booster seat at home. We had to teach him not to strap himself in once toilet trained though, as he can't get out in time.

We have very high standard, ds is expected to sit at the table until we have finished too.

[arfissimeau]

I found at that age DD would eat better if I sat with her and had something too. She had a tripp trapp and would sit up at the big table with us. If she didn't want to eat anything I'd just take it away and not force the issue.

By about 22 months she had her own little table and would alway sit on it to eat. Once she got up I would take the food away to signal the end of mealtime and encourage her to stay at the table to eat rather than run around.

I think your consistency approach is the right one tbh. Stick to your guns and it will fall into place.

[FrannyandZooey]

I don't agree with the above, I think children will all end up sitting down nicely eventually if it is your eventual goal that they do so. It is very very hard for most 19 month olds to learn it. If you don't mind the mess and what other people think, I would just leave finger foods around for your child to help themselves to in between playing. This stage doesn't last forever and it is more important that ds 1) enjoys food and mealtimes and 2) feels good about being with you and not constantly having to live up to high expectations of behaviour.

If you really don't like it, try to compromise, and have a few minutes in the high chair and then allow him to get down. Don't force him to stay in the highchair if he doesn't want to: what does that achieve except the message that sitting at the table is something mummy makes you do and it is all a real pain? Children want to emulate us as they get older, and will learn good manners by encouragement and example - you can't force it.

[mistressmiggins]

my 21mth DD is still in highchair but without the tray - I lower it & push it up to the table
So she eats like the rest of us

it is hard but I think you're right to try

both my children know once they get down theres no more food
both my children know that they can only get down once we've ALL finished eating

most of the time DD is OK with this - lets be honest, mealtimes arent that long are they

Sunday lunch with the dfamily is a different matter
When we go to mums, there are 5 adults and 4 children under 4. All 4 make it til pudding and then can get down str while we stay to drink coffee

to be honest, the earlier you start, the more children jsut accept what happens at mealtimes

[IamBlossom]

Sparklemagic I have read what you say and agree, thankyou! I am also going to telll DH what you have said re under 2 being incapable of "naughty" behaviour, he really beleives DS is going deliberately agains this wishes when he doesn't do as he is told, and I am constantly telling him, he is too young to understand what you mean just be firm and remove offending toy/item/him from situation. i will get there I am determined.

And Twiglett I know 19 month olds can be strapped into a high chair, but I don't want to force him bodily into it, with him screaming the whole way, that's just trauma for all concerned.

Brilliant replies everyone I am dead chuffed with the advice.

x