The Mumsnet Pasta Jar - basic premise and how to introduce?

[Earlybird]

Over and over again I see others recommending the famous mumsnet pasta jar as an effective system of motivating children to behave well, and rewarding them for good behaviour.

I'd like to start this system at our house, but want to think about how to set up the groundrules before I introduce the concept to dd. I would love to know exactly how it's used in other homes.

What, if any, duties are expected of your child as a contributing member of the family and are not "rewardable"?
What "earns" a piece of pasta?
What "sin" causes a piece of pasta to be taken away?
How many pieces does the child have to earn in order to receive a reward?
What sorts of rewards do you give?
Do you start over again every week/month or when a milestone has been reached or a treat rewarded?
Any secrets for success, or pitfalls to be wary of?

DD is 4.8, btw. Thanks for the tips!

[Aimsmum]

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[Eaney]

I use a money jar as I wanted DS to know exactly what he was getting or having taken away. We start the week with 20, 5p coins and we drew up a chart of the various misdemeanours, e.g:
not doing what he is told;
being rude;
not using the toilet when he needs to, and a few others that I can't remember.

He loses 5p or 10p depending on the misdemeanour. I also offer him coins if he does things quickly, like getting dressed, and this is amazingly effective.

At the end of the week we go to the shop and he buys something. I make sure that he know the there are things he could have bought had he been a bit better behaved. It also teaches him about money which is useful.

[Earlybird]

I want to make the ways to "earn" a piece of pasta easily achievable, so she doesn't get discouraged or lose interest. But, I also want her to feel she's accomplished something, so can't be too easy. Also want dd to know that a basic level of decency is expected, not rewarded, so I shan't consider applauding simple things like putting dirty clothes in the wash basket - which she does anyway.

Would love to hear specifics of how others have set up their system......

[roisin]

Earlybird - similarly to sticker charts I've always found the key to success is simplicity.

So we usually focus on one thing at a time, and make sure it's easily 'measurable':
e.g. if you aredownstairs and dressed by 7.40 you get a piece of pasta

When it's working well, you might want to add a second or third target. Also, occasionally I would award pasta as one-off praise for behaviour or achievements.

I don't remove pasta ever. It just doesn't work with my boys.

[merrygoround]

Am currently trying to work out a system to encourage some better behaviour from dd so am reading this with interest. To me it is essential that the criteria for earning the reward is very clear cut, and I am interested in what Roisin said about never removing the pasta. I think that is possibly where my attempts in the past have gone wrong - it all gets too complicated when for every reward gained another one is taken away two minutes later! I think dd is too young to be able to keep up with that.

If the theory is to ignore bad behaviour then I suppose a reward should only be given for good behaviour, NOT for the absence of bad - IYSIM? So it would be better to win a piece of pasta for going to bed nicely, than for NOT saying oh no is it daddy putting me to bed tonight? (One of our current problems is that dd is rather unpleasant to her dad, to the extent recently of telling him, in a temper, that she would flush him down the toilet so he was dead...... she is 3, coming up 4 in January). So if she talks nicely to her dad (and me) she could get a reward, but if she says horrible things she earns nothing, so takes longer to win the "prize"? In our case I have confiscated something she loves, and have explained she will get it back when she has shown better behaviour.

I am nervous about expecting too much and trying to create an artificially well mannered child. I am just not sure where to draw the boundaries.
Sorry for this ramble, really struggling to work out how to get dd to be nicer to her dad. DP is so upset about the way she speaks to him, and I feel sorry for him. On the other hand I think he could deal with it better if he kept very calm rather than by getting a bit drama queeny himself.

[bloss]

Message withdrawn

[Earlybird]

Hmmmm - reward good behaviour, and ignore the bad. I'll have to think about that one. So, what do you do about bad behaviour? Acknowledge it in some way that is not related to the pasta jar - like a time out or naughty step?

I know I might be overcomplicating this, but my gut instinct is to reward dd more on a day by day basis, rather than rewarding her if something good is done every time. For instance - something like "helping to set and clear the dining table" or "doing as mummy asks, and not arguing back" but then I'm unsure if she needs more instant gratification for specific things like "putting dirty clothes in the wash basket" vs a vague "being helpful". But, does the pasta jar work best if there is instant gratification rather than a reward/discussion at the end of the day? She's 4.8, by the way.

I also think that basic things like "putting rubbish in the bin" is something so basic that she should do it anyway, and not be rewarded for it (she does it now without prompting).

I definitely think I have given her too many treats as a matter of course instead of introducing the idea that nice things/experiences are earned and are a reward. She takes them for granted, so perhaps if she has to "work toward" a treat then her anticipation and appreciation will be greater too....in addition to good behaviour along the way.

I'm interested that there are so few responses to how the pasta jar is used in day to day family life. Maybe it's so basic or personal to each family that it wouldn't really apply as a general rule, or maybe it's not used as much as I thought....c'mon ladies, I'm hoping to have the benefit of your past experiences, and even learn from your mistakes!

[SoupDragon]

I disagree about never removing pasta. Before removing pasta, I warn DSs that if they continue the behaviour, it will be removed and if they continue, it is removed. They get the chance to earn it back by exhibiting the correct behaviour the next day (eg running away from me at school pick up). They don't get rewarded for exhibiting this behaviour on a day to day basis though. Rewards are given for other stuff like doing all their challenges at school, tidying up etc etc. I do reward certain behaviours if it's something we're working on improving but there comes a point where it becomes expected behaviour and that's when the punishment/re-reward bit kicks in with us.

[SoupDragon]

And pasta is given/taken away immediately (well, as soon as we're at home with the jar!) and I talk about why they've earned/lost a piece so they understand.

[SoupDragon]

It's very important that you don't let up on the part where you exchange the pasta for the treats or pocket money otherwise it loses the whole point.

[merrygoround]

Earlybird, your question about whether there should be a separate discipline system for bad behaviour is the one I am struggling with. I am prepared to take on trust the general advice of rewarding good and ignoring bad, but of course there is some bad beviour that cannot be let go. I am going to try dealing with it by using time out, or the removal of some immediate privilege.

At the moment the reward connected to the acquisition of pasta is to get back something that was confiscated - I can imagine a situation where we have a huge stack of confiscated goods on the high shelf with an impossible number of pasta pieces required to get them all back! Perhaps if there is a general improvement in behaviour we will not be doing much confiscating, and then the rewards can be more interesting.

Here is the plan: If she is mildly rude or unpleasant I will calmly say that such language / behaviour is not nice and we don't talk/behave like that in our house - eg this morning she called me a cow - she was obviously trying the phrase out, I;ve never heard her say it before. If I'd punished that I think it would be like giving her a piece of ammunition to store away for the future, ie a way to wind me up. I think dp needs to be similarly calm when she says horrible things to him. However, if she is screaming nasty words and lashing out then this calls for immediate action - in our case we will use time out and expect an apology. If she refuses to stay in the space we are calling the naughty corner then I will remove some immediate treat - eg we don't go out to the park, or no video, or no story at bedtime (that one hurts so much it is the absolute last sanction!).

The pasta will be used to reward specific good behaviour - concentrating on three areas where dd often is not very nice. 1. Going to bed nicely (that basically means no moaning about daddy doing bedtime); 2. Doing what mummy or daddy asks- one reminder is ok (this is things like getting dressed, sitting nicely at the table to eat etc); 3. Accepting what treats are offered - if she kicks up then no treat at all, and obviously no pasta. I think we will say 10 pieces of pasta equals reward. I don't want the pasta jar to be in constant use - I envisage a maximum of five pieces going in each day at the moment.

Thanks for raising this Earlybird - it has taken me all night to figure it out but I think this system could work. Removing pasta seems to be optional, and I can see how it would work, just not for us. Dd is too young IMO and needs something simpler where the reward is clearly achievable. SORRY this is so long.

[HRHQoQ]

I tried the taking pasta away - but we ran out of pasta in the jar

[LadySherlockofLGJ]

lol QoQ

[HRHQoQ]

wish I could do a pasta jar for DH - everytime he isn't an arse about something he'd get some pasta, if he's not an arse then he'll get some back - atually might have the same problem as with DS1 - we'd have no pasta left in the jar to take away [frown]

[magnolia1]

It would work with dh's if they had to have a certain amount of pasta to get sex

[ghosty]

LOL re. pasta jars and DHs
We introduced the pasta jar with DS about 2 months ago and it really works.
We felt it was time to introduce pocket money but felt that we didn't just want to give him money for nothing so we have put the two together.
DS will be 6 in November and is good at numbers and understands the concept of 'money'
So .... each piece of pasta is worth 10 cents. He gets a piece of pasta every morning for being 'good' when he wakes up (this was a major issue for us for years ... so now he gets piece of pasta for not waking us all up when he wakes up ... we are talking earlybird here ... he needs to stay in his bed until he hears me go in the shower at 6.30am and then play quietly until DH gets DD up - I have to say the Pasta Jar has been a miraculous cure of our nightmare mornings!)
He earns pasta for nice manners, playing nicely and kindly with his sister, for doing what he is told, for keeping his room tidy, for being civilised on the way home from school (he was shocking on the way home before).
He loses pasta for unacceptable behaviour. Mostly he has warnings but sometimes totally unacceptable behaviour has no warnings (hitting, kicking me, his dad or his sister is an instant loss of pasta)
He actually very rarely 'loses' any ... he just doesn't 'get' a piece IYSWIM?
We start with an empty jar on Monday morning and then on Sunday evening we count up the pasta and convert it into money to go into his money box.
A good week is roughly $3 - $3.50 (around 5 pieces of pasta a day)
A bad week (a couple of weeks ago) was 90 cents.
He is allowed to buy something with the money in his box but so far he has chosen to save it up for something special (don't know what yet but I suspect he wants a remote controlled car)

[Earlybird]

Thanks ghosty. The practical information of how you use the pasta jar day to day is very useful. Glad to know it's been so successful for you, and hopefully it will be for us too.

[SoupDragon]

QoQ, I introduced a two colour pasta system toget over that - green pasta is +10p pocket money, orange is -10p. If they end up with more orange than green, they have to give me money. Hasn't happened yet!! Also, it, er, teaches them about subraction.

One problem with the original system was that if they got to only 1 or 2 pieces left in the jar, they didn't care. This allows for further punishment

[throckenholt]

I tried the pasta jar with my kids (4 and 2.5 twins) - they ate the pasta . I didn't expect that !

Now the reward for potty training etc is a piece of dry pasta.

Kids are very stange things

[throckenholt]

ps - they get very upset if they drop it or leave it lying around instead of eating it, because the dog thinks it is for her and gobbles it up.

[JessieParker]

How early age-wise can you introduce this? (I have a 2.6 DS)

[SoupDragon]

DS2 started it at around 3.5 I think. You can adapt it to your child though - use chocolate buttons instead of pasta for example so the reward at the end of the day/week is more understandable for a younger child.

[alittlebitscary]

I was about to ask the age appropriateness too? My dd is 2.5 and understands many concepts but do you think she is too young for this kind of lengthy delayed gratification ? Do you think an incentive could work with such a littlie? If anyone has experience of such a ploy with ones under 3 I would be really grateful!