Sexual behaviour in 3-4 year olds, what is normal?

[Sparks]

My dd is 4 and sometimes plays with a 3 yo boy who lives nearby. There have been many times when I have heard him ask her if he can see or touch her fanny. I reckon he talks about this at least once each time they play together. That seems like a lot to me.

Yesterday the boy's father found the boy touching dd "down there." He shouted at them and told them both off. (I disagree with him shouting at kids like that, but that's another thread ...) DD was very upset about the whole incident, more upset than I have seen her in a long time. There are a lot of factors that might have contributed to her bad feelings - the boy touching her, the father shouting at her, feeling unjustly accused of doing something wrong, feeling responsible for the the boy being shut in his room as a punishment.

I guess I have two questions. Is that amount of interest in sexual behaviour "normal" for a 3yo? I am wondering if it's possible that he has been sexually abused in some way. Also, what do you think I could do in response to what happened yesterday?

Thanks for your help

[Jenie]

I'd be concerned enough to talk to a hv about this.

When we had ds my dd was 3 and she did tell everyone "my baby brother has a willie" which was to her important.

She's 4 now and has never shown any kind of sexual interest with regard to touching other children, nor have any of her friends to my knowledge.

As to what happend yesterday lots of love and cuddles for your daughter listen to anything she has to say. For instance paint with her and whilst occupied in a confident voice ask has so and so ever touched you before? If so ask her to point to where it was.

If you're unhappy with the reply then I'd talk to the police.

My heart goes out to you at this time, it must be terrible for you to deal with.

Have you ever left your daughter with any member of that household? If so try to get her to talk to you about it, try saying something like you know that you must not keep secrets from mummy and that if someone asks her to keep a secret then she should tell you.

You must feel as though this incident has taken away some of her childhood innocence.

I'm sure that there is book that deals with this type of situation, it's about childrens feelings and how to say no. It does cover other things like strangers but maybe you should ask you library if they have a copy, it's been designed to be read to your child and then to be talked about.

Once again my heart goes out to you.

[Boe]

One of the first pointers towards sexual abuse is sexual behavir or verbalisation of sexual phrases - this I learnt when doing courses for childminding.

I would ring your health visitor and tell her what happened - she may also be able to give you advice on how to speak to your DD about it.

Hope things work out ok - ((((((x))))))))

[motherinferior]

Sparks, I'd also suggest ringing ChildLine, where you should be able to talk things through with a counsellor.

[Sparks]

Thanks for your responses.

My dd has only been in their flat without me about 3 or 4 times and never for very long. Obviously, now that this has happened I won?t let her be on her own with any members of that family. I never really liked the parents, but that was more from the point of view of their being inconsiderate neighbours and the father shouting and swearing a lot. The possibility of sexual abuse puts things on a whole different level.

I don?t want to make a big deal of it and upset dd any more than she already has been, but obviously I want to make sure nothing like this ever happens again.

Thanks for the suggestion Motherinferior, I will try ringing Childline. I don?t have much confidence in our hv.

[boyandgirl]

Sparks, as you pointed out, your dd may well have been upset by the father's reaction, and IMO that's as important to deal with as any sexual abuse that may or may not have happened. My toddler was very interested in his willy and in the difference between him, dd, me and dh, and, to be honest, any other willies that he may see (at the swimming pool for example) We taught him at an early age that willies were private, and that we didn't touch other peoples willies and that nobody touched his except when changing his nappy. If he and another toddler were innocently exploring each other's bodies, and an adult came roaring down on them, ds would be utterly traumatised by the upset, and would worry that he had done something wrong. I would feel that it is very important to address that upset, and to reassure him that he had done nothing wrong, that sometimes the grownups get angry and shout, etc. I don't know the situation with your neighbours, but personally sexual abuse would not be my first worry, more the verbal/emotional 'abuse' your dd has suffered on this occasion. Certainly its something to discuss with your HV - because you never know, and it's better to play it safe.

[boyandgirl]

Oh, I've just seen your post re HV. Yup, Childline are a good idea. What about nursery - do both children go to the same one by any chance? The staff there might be able to help.

[lisalisa]

Message withdrawn

[bossykate]

this might be a controversial opinion, but IMO, even if the touching was just "innocent curiosity" as opposed to a reaction to "abuse" or "inappropriate behaviour" (and it could be either, imo, the former more likely) - the most traumatic thing for a small child is an ott, shouting, heavy-handed reaction. for that reason alone, i would discourage contact with the family in question for the time being.

[boyandgirl]

I agree, bossykate, that's what I was long-windedly trying to express.

[Boe]

Sure OTT response could be the worst thing but I would have to speak to someone - what woud you feel like if this child was being abused and you suspected it ut did nothing - just mention it to someone please.

[Sparks]

Thanks for your messages. It does seem like a good idea to keep dd away from that family. As it turns out, I am wondering if the boy's parents have decided to keep him away from my dd. Our flats have a communal garden and I have not seen him playing in the garden at all since that incident. With the hot weather, I would have expected to see him out there. Makes things a bit easier for me, because I would rather not stop dd playing in the garden if she wants to.

I think it's probably true that dd was upset by the shouting. It's also that she thinks he was telling her off for touching the boy, when she did not. She tried to tell him this, but feels like he was not listening to her. Of course, if he's shouting like that, he can't be listening to much of anything.