Tantrums - life becoming very hard - please advise

[lisalisa]

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[gingernut]

My ds is only 19 months but he sounds a bit like your dd2, quite a wound up child who can be hideously stubborn about brushing teeth, face washing, eating etc. So your message struck a chord with me!

I'm reading a book called Kid Co-operation' (subtitle How to Stop Yelling, Nagging and Pleading and Get Kids to Co-operate' ) by Elizabeth Pantly ATM. I'm only part way through it, but so far I think her advice is pretty good. She suggests making things like nappy changes, teeth cleaning etc. into a game by pretending the item in question is a character' (Tommy toothbrush' `Norman nappy' etc) who speaks in a silly voice and says he wants to play with the child. I tried it this morning for the first time with some success. ds thought Norman nappy was hilarious and although the change was still a bit of a struggle it was because he was squirming rather than screaming blue murder and really fighting me (which has been the general rule recently). Tommy toothbrush was well accepted too. I just hope it continues this way.

Worth a try?

I'm not sure about the dressing issue as ds isn't yet interested in what he wears (although he would prefer not to have to wear clothes at all).

With mealtimes, I would say no alternatives if you know she is not refusing because she actually dislikes the dish. Healthy alternatives are OK as long as you stick to something that requires pretty much no effort on your part (e.g. fresh fruit). Otherwise your life will be impossible.

As a general rule, try not to make anything into a battle. e.g. with teeth cleaning, don't force her because it will become a battle of wills and she will just fight all the more.

[ThomCat]

Blimey - no advice unfortuantely just tons of sympathy and a big hug {{{{}}}}

[codswallop]

re the clothes, I put all mine out the night before so they can attempt to dress them selves.

re the food, i vowed never to do the one more spoon thing.as long as they have an attrmpt at it then thats it. recently i posted about outwitting my almost 3 yr old by saying "ok then" when he refused to even look at his tea. 25 mins later it was all eaten o f his own volition. i thibk they like theattention an argument brings?

its hard tho isntit?

sorry crap typing... bf baby.

[codswallop]

www.mumsnet.com/Talk?topicid=4&threadid=9227&stamp=030622202610

here it is

ps no alternatives at meals

[gingernut]

A ps. Good advice from coddie I think. We had the same at tea time the other day, total refusal. I removed ds from the high chair, let him play for 15 mins and then tried again and he did then eat half of it.

I read somewhere recently that toddlers don't need as much food as you might think. Their growth rate has slowed a lot (compared with babies) and their appetites often do actually decrease. She won't starve herself. If she refuses a meal don't give her any snacks so she's then hungry for the next meal.

HTH

[lisalisa]

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[gingernut]

Lisalisa, re the teeth, I don't really know the answer and hope someone here's a dentist and can advise. I suspect that a few days of not brushing shouldn't do much harm though, and putting her off brushing by letting it become a fight will actually be worse in the long run. Don't give her anything but water between meals though, as that's bad for teeth. Hopefully though the Barbie game will work and you won't need to worry. How about Barbie helping her choose her clothes too?

With the food, it sounds like you'll have to be really strong here!! Have you tried sitting her at the table but not actually giving her a portion, but actually giving her portion to an adult sitting next to her? Then that adult offers her some food off his/her plate. This works with my ds. Also, another Pantley suggestion - offer her 2 alternatives both of which you're happy to give her (so, during the morning, say `Would you like tuna or cheese in your sandwiches today'?) so she feels more in control. If she chooses what she has for lunch then she may be less likely to reject it later.

[lisalisa]

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[Gumdrop]

Hi, it will get better, it will get better.

I have a little tip re the vomiting which worked with my dd. Apparently the theory is that it all to do with attention, and they get rewarded by more attention, i.e.you running around cleaning up, when they make themselves vomit. So, what you are supposed to do is react very calmly, when they start kicking off (i.e. pre vomiting), go and fetch a bowl etc, and say, very flatly, "well if you cry until you make yourself ill, here is the bowl to do it in."

I'm not sure I'm describing it right, but it worked really well with my "hair trigger" dd.

[gingernut]

Does she behave in the same way for the nanny though? If not, don't leave alternatives because she really needs to understand that she eats what everyone else eats. Just offer her a choice on the days she's with you, and when it actually comes to the meal if she still doesn't eat it even though she's chosen it, don't give her an alternative (when I said healthy alternatives would be OK, I meant just an apple for eg).

[codswallop]

Mine brush their teeth ?twicw a week as I always forget (guilt guilt) but they are alwat=ys pronounced beautiful by the dentist!

[gingernut]

coddie, are you feeding again??!

[eefs]

repeat to self: "it's just a phase, it WILL pass"

sorry, no other advise, you seem to be doing all the things i tried already.

[codswallop]

no just crap typer..!

[Lorien]

Hi Lisalisa,
I'm having similar problems with ds1(he is nearly three -- I thought I had avoided the tantrum phase, but I guess he's just a late developer).
On brushing his teeth, I bought one of those battery-powered toothbrushes and using a tip from mumsnet (sorry, can't remember who posted it) I give him the toothbrush first and let him turn it off and on and maybe put it in his mouth a bit. Then I feign surprise and say "who's that in your mouth? is it (whoever I can think of, like friends/pets/relations) and can I have a better look with the toothbrush?" Anyway, most times, its hey presto, mouth open and a good brush completed without a murmur.
On food, its an ongoing battle, although ds1's nanny has far more success than I do. As far as I can see, she just ignores most of his whining and lets him get up and down from the table a bit, also she's a good sight more patient than I am. But if you've got two other kids at the table, thats probably not much help...
On dressing, I do one of two things -- if I'm very organised I will put ds1's clothes downstairs in the playroom before i go to bed and let him come down in his pyjamas. If we're in the playroom, he doesn't seem to kick up any fuss about what he's wearing. When I'm not so organised (ie, most days) and trouble brews, I try to get him to come and "choose" mummy's clothes. Then we go back and get his.

[lisalisa]

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[lisalisa]

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[Jimjams]

lisalisa- missed most of this, and don't really have experience of normal toddler tantrums so no advice there as such. But food issues oh yes we do them. DS1 ate everything at 12 months, but 15 months he was only eating bread (literally). We took him off gluten and he has slowly expanded his deit. he will now eat gluten free bread, raisins, apricots, prunes, apples, chips (new addition) egg bread (new addition), chocolate, philadephia sometimes, honey, jam,yoghurts, buckwheat pancakes, soya milk and crisps. He used to eat satsumas but stopped after throwing up with a tummy bug after eating them one night and ditto smoothies with lots of fruit in them.

Anyway despite this incredibly limited diet he thrives! We give him supplements obviously (!!). We have recently seen a dietician, and she said although his diet is limited its fairly healthy- just a little low in protein (althugh egg bread has been added since then). So basically just saying don't stress. I used to get really wound up about his diet, but he won't eat anymore - and I find that he will add new foods such as eggbread every year or so! We hide stuff in his food. So i always make his bread with linseed and hempseeds added, and his buckwheat pancakes have grated cheeses in them.

If I was you I would offer her one meal- if she eats it fine - if not no wories. I tend to give ds1 a lunch I now he'll eat and then about every other day I dish up a "proper" tea- which is usually ignored. If he really hasn't eaten anything for tea then after his bath I give him a supper of toast and an apple -otherwise he wakes hungry at night. They don't need much to survive on. Honeestly the dietician was remarkably unconcerned about ds1's diet. She just suggested a few other ways of hiding various nutrients in the food, but otherwise said it was fine. Good luck!

[lisalisa]

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[emwi]

Haven't read all posts in detail but a poster on another thread suggested pretending to see things in her mouth when brushing. Also support letting it go occasionally. Has anyone suggested setting out two sets of clothes and allowing her to choose one? Again, if she's really stroppy and won't choose either you could let her go to the barbie in the cossie and suffer the consequences:0

[emwi]

Nuts, I meant

[mammya]

Gingernut, thank you SOOOOO much for the advice: putting on a silly voice and saying the toothbrush, flannel etc wants to play with the child has worked a treat with my 2.5 year old dd, who has recently been a bit difficult lately about having her teeth brushed, face washed etc.

[gingernut]

mammya, you're welcome! It's working for us too . How are yu getting on, lisalisa?

[kid]

i hope someone can offer me some advice. ds is 16 months old and has started having tantrums. Today we visited his uncle and he screamed whenever he couldn't get his own way.
At a shop on saturday, he screamed and screamed to get out of his buggy. we did get him out at first and put on his babyreins but he didn't like them and screamed for us to let go. We tried holding his hand but he refused this too and ended up back in his buggy to which he responded with even more screams!
It has got to the point where I dread taking him out. dd never ever behave in this way!

[lisalisa]

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