Would it be heartless to use this name?(97 Posts)
So Im pregnant and mulling names - don't know the sex.
In a tough situation as my SIL has recently suffered two losses and its cut her up big time. I had a miscarriage myself but still feel so guilty about being pregnant when she's not.
Anyway for a girl I love the name Eliza, really truly love it have done for as long as I can remember. I have never spoken to SIL about the name Eliza but know if she had a daughter she would want Elizabeth as its a family names although she would use Betty all the time.
I would also want Elizabeth as I like full names but for the most part she would be Eliza.
Am I being heartless - is it horrible to consider using that name?
I feel it is and I already feel bad enough but cant shake it that I love the name Eliza. What if I never have another daughter and in future she has only son's so neither of us use it? I would be gutted.
Not sure what to do, the plan would be to broach it with her nearer the time if we decide we definitely want to use it but I dunno if I should just push it from my head.
Anyone ever had a similar situation?
I would perhaps mention it, but only when you know you're definitely having a girl (or are you deliberately not finding out the sex?).
If she's desperate for it/uncomfortable with you using it, then I'd probably just let her have it tbh.
I wouldn't use it...I hope she will have her own baby very soon.
Does it have to be Elizabeth? Just Eliza on is own would perhaps be less upsetting?
I wouldn't use it. There are plenty of other names.
I think the timing is wrong if your sil has just gone through two miscarriages ..... It would hurt her very much. Miscarriages, or mine, led me to have plenty irrational thoughts, and that would have hurt me deeply. However, if I was having a successful pregnancy or had a child, it would not have mattered.....
As she will be the baby's auntie, and there are very delicate feelings involved, no I would not use it. It's just a name. For the sake of harmony there are many other lovely names you can pick.
You really need to get over it and chose another name imo
Personally, I would speak to her & gauge her reaction. I also don't follow with the trend of giving a baby a long name you don't intend to use, so would be asking if using Eliza was OK with her - not the full Elizabeth (which is an entirely different name IMHO).
I would think that having an Eliza and an Elizabeth (known as Betty) as cousins would be entirely workable - have two Elizabeths would clearly be more tricky.
I'm always the first to frown at people not giving full names eg Tom not Thomas or Kate not Katherine. But I have always perceived Eliza as a name in its own right. Obviously it can be a shortening of Elizabeth, but it is a very long established standalone name.
So I think you would be fine in calling your daughter Eliza, especially as if your SIL has an Elizabeth, she will use another diminutive.
She doesn't 'only have sons' though, if the baby she lost was a little girl, them that little girl's name was Elizabeth. It would be hurtful to pay otherwise.
I think the only way you can use it is if you speak to her first and she's ok with it, and you only use Eliza, not Elizabeth, even on the birth cert.
I don't think you should though.
I wouldn't use it.
If you still really want to, I would find out whether you are expecting a girl or a boy. If you are having a boy, you can out this issue to bed straight away. I think it would be awful to broach this with her if you don't know the sex - you may upset her needlessly. If you know you're having a girl, at least there would be some point to the conversation, but as I said before I do think it's a no no.
Oh dear I can see how awkward this is. My gut reaction is please wait at least until you have learned whether you're expecting a girl or boy. Sadly you will know the depth of SIL's losses and how she could be hoping for her next chance to use that name. It's not horrible to still dream of using a name you both happen to like and you'll be sensitive to how you work this out.
The thing is, you can ask, and she might say yes (if she's in any way an empathetic, nice person) simply to please you ... but it's potentially forever a sore spot in your relationship with her.
Is it worth it?
It's the sort of thing - seemingly incredibly inconsequential and petty when looked at out of context - that can drive a tiny, irreparable wedge in your relationship.
Again, is it worth it?
Personally, I wouldn't use it. There are zillions and zillions of beautiful names out there for you to choose from. Surely, between you and your husband, you can find one you both love that isn't going to be a potential cause of pain to your SIL.
I could never use my DGrandfather's name as I know my DSIS as always intended to.
In fact she has never had DC and I have DDs.
I'm usually in the "No-one owns a name" camp but in this instance I'd think twice.
I wouldn't use it in these circumstances.
If your SIL had not miscarried and had had a daughter and named her Elizabeth and then you had a daughter after that, would you have called her Eliza? If yes then I don't think you should change it to something else. It is a name you have had your heart set on for a long time. Maybe just stick with Eliza though rather than using it as a shortened version of Elizabeth. You could call your (potential) daughter something else and then your SIL never has a daughter.
I had two cousins named Margaret-similar ages and it was never a problem.Eliza and Betty are completely different names but if I were in your position I would use Eliza rather than Elizabeth.
I wouldn't. YOU will have a BABY, so let her have what is just a name
What decoy says. Normally I'd say Elizabeth is a popular name, it's a classic name, a family name for lots of people, but in your shoes, I'd want my poor sil to think that I was sensitive enough to her circumstances to want to do anything I could do (which is very little really) to avoid compounding it.
I would use it. With baby names I think dont say anything to anyone and then call your baby what you want.
She hasn't actually SAID that its "her" name.
You are just feeling bad for her in general.
Have your baby, put Elizabeth on the birth cert, send round the announcement text "Baby Eliza has arrived", introduce your SIL to Eliza, and dont make some fuss over "Oh gosh sorry but I have an actual baby so I took the name I think you may have wanted"
Eliza and Betty are NOT the same name.
(I also think the trend for calling a child one name and then putting a completely unrelated name on the birthcert is silly and if I were you I would call her Eliza and name her Eliza too!)
No it would be cruel to use Eliza.
You're just going to have to live with the fact you can't have it.
Or name her Eliza Beth Surname and call her Eliza.
Eliza- just about ok. But with so many lovely names, it seems a little bit cruel.
Using Elizabeth seems wrong, just wrong. It's like shoving it in her face you had a healthy baby and she didn't. I can't imagine why anyone would do this unless they really wanted to upset the other person.
Just choose something else. FFS don't speak to her about it and make her make it OK for you. Just don't do it please.
Quietlysuggest how do you think this will impact on the sil? Then the rest of the family?
I think SIL from that moment on would know you didn't care a jot about her or her feelings!
Eliza isn't one of the recognised diminutives of Elizabeth - it comes from a different derivation.
How about Elise? or Elisa?
I would also choose something else. There are so many gorgeous girl's names.
Why would you do that to your SIL?
I`m sure you could find another name, theres thousands out there.
I actually completely disagree. Name your beautiful child whatever you want. If that's the name you love, that's the name you should use. You should have to, but you wouldn't actually have to tell everyone her full name is Elizabeth straight away anyway.
I don't understand this ownership of names thing at all.
FFS people, these are two different names. Lighten up.
It's not about ownership in this instance lavender it's about putting your SIL who is suffering ' big time ' from two miscarriages before your self.
Two different names? No it's not.
Both women would want Elizabeth then a different nn.
It's not about 'ownership' it's about being demonstrating sensitivity to a close family member's feelings.
I definitely wouldn't use it and I certainly wouldn't broach the subject with her. What could the poor woman say except 'of course you can use it'.
Find another name.
Absolutely yes. It would be heartless. Use Eliza instead.
kitten the point is the OP is actually thinking of using Elizabeth. If she just uses Eliza it then yes i agree it becomes a completely different name.
Eliza is generally not a nickname for Elizabeth so why use Elizabeth if you dont intend to use it IYKWIM? Thus causing hurt for your SIL.
FWIW i have had two losses and the second was so late that we named him. I dont think for one minute that my DSis's or DSIL would use his name but if they did i would be hurt
I am lucky to have had 3 gorgeous boys but part of me still would have liked a girl. My girls name has been the same for 6 years since DS1 was conceived and its close to my heart. Even though we don't want another baby, I would still resent it if my SIL had a daughter and used the name. Not rational, but lots of family emotions aren't. Your situation is a thousand times more emotional, so I would steer clear.
Don't feel guilty about having a baby though. You are giving your SIL a niece or nephew, which can be such a lovely relationship, especially if you are close. Just be sensitive and don't make it unnecessarily hard for her.
No, don't. If it's the name of the baby your SIL lost; it would be extremely crass and hurtful to do this. There are millions of names to choose from.
Heartless, sorry. Well, thoughtless and lacking in understanding, anyway.
I had a mc...years ago. In my mind, I'd named that child, and that name is still her name, the name of my lost baby. When I became pregnant again myself, that name was already 'used'.
If my sisters or close friends, knowing the name I'd given my child already, used that name for their own living child, I would feel it like a slap in the face.
The ONLY way this woudl be ok IMHO is if you senistively asked and were given her enthusiastic permission to use the name as a sort of tribute to the baby she lost - not simply because you like the name - and you would have to genuinely mean it that way, which isn't the case here, is it?
Sorry, I think you need to let that name go.
As someone who has lost four and watched her SIL have two in that time, I would say that from that POV it would be a real kindness on your part to not mention it to her but quietly choose a different name.
I'd put the decision on hold...how long do you have left? could she become pg again within that time? that would change the dynamic a bit.
Gosh, what a tricky one. What does your DP think? Is he SIL's brother? I think you need to agree what to do with him first, as it's not just your decision, and he might be able to gauge SIL's potential reaction better.
Names are such a personal thing but if you've had this name picked out for years, you shouldn't have to change it. How do you know SIL wouldn't have used a different name in the event that things had been different? And it sounds like the two cousins would have been known as different nicknames anyway.
I guess only you can know how your SIL will react/feel to the news - but equally, you and your DH have the right to name your child wha you like.
Such a hard decision.
1. would you want your SIL to feel worse than she already does?
2. do you think that using this name would make her feel worse?
Think these through and you should have your answer.
I wouldn't use it, I wouldn't even ask her if she minded if you used it. As somebody said up thread, what could she say apart from 'yes, you can use it'.
I don't think it's a tricky one and I don't think whether or not OP's DSIL has a successful pregnancy in the future is at all relevant.
Your SIL is in a lot of pain. It will be bad enough for her that you are pregnant. It's not even that it's "her" name (it's not) it's just that it will increase her pain. If you still need to think about it, I'm glad I'm not your SIL.
I think a name is just a name and that if you look hard enough you'll find another one that you like just as much.
It doesn't really compare with the heartbreak of having had two mc imo. Elizabeth most probably represents the memory of your SIL's unborn babies to her and is more than just a name. Your DD will exist and what name she has will end up being so secondary to her actually being real, iyswim?
Maybe you could use Eliza as your DD's middle name? I think it would be the nicest thing to do in this situation. If you were having a boy, you'd have had to have found another name anyway. HTH.
Its not about name ownership ffs, its about kindness, empathy and understanding. Its really not hard, just choose another name, there are loads of lovely names out there.
I personally wouldnt use the name, I wouldnt ask her either as she may well just say yes its fine to avoid any fall out, time heals and all that but you dont ever stop hurting, if your sil is regular in your lifes she will be reminded of what she has lost.
You have had a hard time yourself and I understand its hard for you too, but in this situation I would not use the name, please dont feel guilty about being pregnant either, enjoy every moment.
I had a stillborn baby at 5 months and named her Dino (well not really, but I'm not sharing her name!). A friend was due a few weeks before my due date and happily called one day to say, "We've had a baby. She's called Dino."
I felt like I'd been hit by a bus and still can't speak to them, even after having another baby since (someone above almost suggested that your SIL would be fine once she'd had a baby. Um, no, you don't get over it that easily!) I am not sure how I am ever going to see them face to face and have to see a little girl not only the same age as my DD1 is supposed to be but with the same name.
dinosnores I'm sorry, that must have been so painful.
That's so sad Dino. Did your friend know you had used that name for your baby? Very insensitive if they did.
I think in this case it's best if you find another name.
No of course you can't use it.
It will always remind her of her lost daughter if you do, whatever she says when you put her on the spot.
Because if you ask her, that's what you will be doing:
"SIL, please let me use your lost DD's name - it is ok, isn't it?" With a pleading look.
If she says no she will always remember that you asked her. That you wanted to use the name. That you tied your joyful occasion in with her painful loss in a thoughtless way.
And if she says yes it will most likely be due to feeling she has to.
Don't put her in that position. Unless you don't give a shit about her, of course.
dinosnores I'm so sorry for your loss and to hear that your friend did that.
OP it might also be worth considering that your SIL may become pg again soon and your lo will then have the wonderful opportunity to grow up really close to their cousin. It would be a real shame to spoil that for the sake of a name.
kendodd, yes they did. When I spluttered, "You've called her Dino?!", she said, "Yes, we know you two like the name too!" Well, yes, that's why we called our dead baby Dino...
No I wouldn't. Added to which, I only had one loss and that baby, although early, was given a name by me. No one else knows that name, but I gave one anyway.
X post, sorry Dino, I hadn't read as far as your post.
That's awful Dinosnores. :-( to realise in an instant how little sensitivity for your pain your friend seems to have (or not have).
Dinosnores, so sorry for your loss
Pretty bloody heartless IMO.
Why would you even consider it??
Nope and I wouldn't even consider it, even in my head.
Your sil will be feeling bad enough as it is, without you also taking her future name away and it also makes it look like you have no faith in her conceiving soon by using a name she would use if her dreams come true.
Please don't do it, it would be very selfish and uncaring, there are plenty of other names you could use too.
I need to correct myself - turns out that Eliza and Elizabeth do both derive from the Hebrew.
So, let's help you find another name you like just as much .
Oh, and I checked that Liza has a different meaning from Elizabeth/Eliza!
Eliza = God is my vow
Liza = consecrated to God
Liza is still too close I think.
I know it's hard to give up a name you love but to do otherwise would be so cruel.
Help me out here! Give me something to work with!
I'm on the fence with this one l'm afraid which seems to go against the general tide of opinion on this thread. My reasons are as follows:
Firstly you have always loved this name, possibly even said so in the past so it's not as if you have got the idea from your poor s-I-l and are now considering using it because she sadly never got the chance to. Also as you say you have also suffered the terrible loss of a miscarriage.
Secondly you say you are presuming your s-I-l would use that name if she had a girl, based on it being a family name. So am presuming she has never actually stated that she would. If she had openly stated this would have definitely been her babies name then yes l agree it would now be heartless for you to use it.
Also you say she would use 'Betty' and you would use 'Eliza'. So really you would not be pre-empting her ever using it as that would be ample difference for two first cousins names to differentiate between them.
I am sure also you would have no problem with your S-I-l later on calling her little girl 'Elizabeth' who as you say would be known as Betty.
I agree though that you should call your DD Eliza as a full name as a compromise to leave Elizabeth 'free' for your Dsil. However different the derivatives are that you each would use on a daily basis it would be closing the door on her using Elizabeth as a full name in the future and Betty doesn't really work as full name like Eliza does.
I've had three miscarriages, and have each time "named" the baby, privately, the name I'd been considering whilst I was still pregnant. I wouldn't use those names for a subsequent child, they are the names of my lost babies.
I have a friend who miscarried and named the baby Holly. Another friend unknowingly had a daughter at a similar EDD and named the baby Holly. Even though it was a horrible coincedence and friend 2 did not know, it was deeply hurtful.
To know that it's "her" name and still to use it would be cruel.
I think if she's going to use the name Betty anyway, and these are all hypothetical children we're talking about, I would talk to her about it once you know if you're having a girl or not. But, I would scrap the Elizabeth, with a shortened name of Eliza, and just go for Eliza.
Eliza and Betty are very different names to me, even if they were originally derived from the same name.
I definitely wouldn't use it in these circumstances.
It will upset her and I'm sure that there will be other names that you love just as much once you've made the decision not to use Elizabeth/Eliza.
That's tricky. I don't think I would use it. I agree with the other messages that there are so many pretty girls names that you could choose from. Good luck!!
I agree with Bakingtins, when I had a miscarriage I'd named the baby privately and wouldn't use the name again for subsequent babies.
A neighbour then had a girl with the same name a few months later and it really hurt.
Message withdrawn at poster's request.
Thanks for all your replies.
I can see most of you think im an awful person so I will not be using the name.
Thanks to those who have been kind about it.
She has never said she named her babies this her losses were very early I just know she likes it.
I have also lost a baby but I understand her loss is worse as im actually pregnant.
I going to ask for this to be deleted please as im worried she might see it and it will be obvious who I am.
I can fully appreciate the sil pain and suffering. I just find it difficult to think that someone can't or shouldn't use a name they have always dreamed of. If I am lucky enough to have a daughter one day, I know what she will be called. I know there is no other name that would do. I think Eliza and Elizabeth are two different names so the OP should name her baby Eliza if that's what she loves.
I meant to add about the OP having had the bereavement of a miscarriage that had her baby survived and been a girl she would have surely called her Eliza. Her s-I-ls tragic losses happened recently according to the OP so presumably later, so OPs (if a little girl obv.) baby would have already been called this name. Therefore both could really say they have 'missed out' on this name only because of their respective very sad endings to previous pregnancies.
The OP l think has an equally valid emotional attachment to her long term favourite girls name as her s-I-l and would surely be just as upset if her s-I-l used it in the future when OP had felt she couldn't.
I suppose ideally they should both steer clear of this name in consideration of the other.
But the problem is that if the OP even brings it up she may well upset her s-I-l but if she doesn't how will she know the sil wont use it in the future if OP refrains now.
Im sure no one thinks your awful Iris, you sound lovely especially as you can see it could cause upset. I think most people think its just a bit too sensitive and probably best to find another name, there are so many lovely names out there
Congratualtions on preganancy
I don't think you can use Eliza if your sister-in-law has plans to use Elizabeth. You will just have to find another name. And I don't think it would be very sensitive to broach the subject if there is any chance she will get upset.
Nobody thinks you're awful. If you were awful you wouldn't be asking.
Hope everything goes well OP .
I'm sorry if I was a bit harsh in my earlier post OP. I still think its a no-no but you asked because you obviously do care about her.
I don't think you're awful, you're just someone in a difficult situation with regards to a name you love.
Congratulations on your pregnancy.
Don't do it.
Your SIL may resent you may be reminded of dead babies she sees yours. Your SIL may avoid you and your baby and may not bond with her. It's not worth it when there are so many other names.
I don't think you're awful Iris1, these boards are here to talk through these sort of questions. Sometimes in your heart of hearts you know the answer but an impartial opinion helps mull it through.
I LOVED the name Alice but a good friend beat us to it. Forget Elizabeth/Eliza and another name will soon capture you. Congratulations on your baby. X
How about Adeliza, nn Eliza. Adeliza of Louvain was the wife of Henry II (or one of the Henries).
You might have to adjust the pronunciation, because I'd pronounce it Ad-el-ee-za, but you might prefer Ad-el-eye-za.
That could get round the Elizabeth/Eliza issue, because in full it looks a very different name.
Adeliza sounds like a good compromise. Or how about Elise as an alternative?
I don't think people were awful to you tbf.
You asked a question and people including myself were honest.
I didnt say anyone was awful to me I said people obviously think im awful.
Thank you for all the nice replies people have left, ive decided not to use the name at all.
Adeliza is lovely.
Ive asked for this thread to be deleted im worried there is too much personal information after all and wish id used different names.
I appreciate all the replies so far and will not be using the name or bringing it up with her.
If anyone reads this now please don't reply as I want the thread to disappear if it doesn't get deleted - like I say I think I've been daft and put too muh info im worried she may read it.
Iris I don't think you're an awful person and I think some people on here have actually been quite cruel to you in being so blunt and rude with their responses. For what my opinion is worth, I wouldn't use Elizabeth as a first name, but love Eliza on its own and can't see any problem with you using it as a middle name.
dont use it. you will hurt her.
maybe a middle name x
No I don't think you're an awful person OP. An awful person would just go ahead and use the name and you haven't done that, you came on here and asked for an opinion.
Just to throw something else in before you cancel this thread - if you give your DD the name Elizabeth, at some point in her future, she'll be known as Liz. If you'd rather have Eliza, then name her Eliza, it's a name in it's own right - once you know if you are having a girl, then I'd ask her if she is ok with you calling your DD Eliza - and make it clear that you won't mind at all if in the future she uses the name Elizabeth as you know she would always want it.
Personally I had a misscarriage last year, we didn't know the gender of the one we'd lost but at the time but did know that my SIL was pregnant with a girl so refused to discuss girls name, but had agreed on the boys name William. There is no way I could even entertain the idea that the baby I am now pregnant with would be called William and it does make me slightly forget how to breath for a second when I hear a boy being called William or Will.
BTW - it's lovely of you to think about this. It's very kind to worry about her feelings even though Eliza and Betty are very different names. Some people have been v insensitive re my miscarriage and it's great that you are trying ot be as sensitive as possible to her feelings.
Actually using it as a middle name may be a nice touch, maybe takk to her about it first. I think I would choose a different name, not because anyone has dibs in a name but it will be quite delicate for all of your family when your lovely healthy baby arrives and she will feel her loss more keenly. So as not to make it more painful for her and her dp choose a different name that will be all your dd's and not have any sensitive connotations. Xx
I doubt anyone thinks you are awful, an insensitive person wouldn't even have considered her feelings.
I just find it difficult to think that someone can't or shouldn't use a name they have always dreamed of.
LOL, yes, that is the difficult thing in the scenario the OP describes...!
Lavender, chances are you'll never be faced with the same circumstances the OP is in, so it's a moot point. But if you are, by all means just go ahead and use the name, and see how it works out for you.
This isn't about ownership of a name, but if that needs explaining to people, then chances are they're never going to get the issue at hand anyway.
Sorry for replying to the thread when you'd asked everyone to leave it, OP.
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